Best bang for the buck ICs

[Rev. Hayes]

I'm looking to clean up my wire mess a bit and at the same time upgrade my interconnects. I'll be needing:

~9' for the phono pre > preamp
currently :crap red and white

~9' to connect my preamp >amp
currently :monster AV cable

~2' to connect dvd > preamp
currently :old but nice gold terminated rca's from the University surplus

~2' to connect cd > peamp
currently :old but nice gold terminated rca's from the University surplus

~9' to connect sub > preamp
currently :monster (not the sub dedicated kind just normal low end monster AV cable)

AND (don't hate me people) a nice 1/8" phono to RCA for the quick Ipod fix

Any suggestions are welcome but be aware I do not intend to spend a great deal on this. I am not currently capable of even thinking about MIT or anything like that. Let's say I might spend $200 but I really don't want to.

Also I'm quite willing to make this a DIY project but only if the cost benefit ratio matches what I think my down time is worth ;)

This is a serious request for suggestions/advise. I'm well aware of the potentially inflammatory nature of this subject and I ask that this thread not devolve into mudslinging. I personally believe that quality ICs just make sense but everyone has a cut off point as to what they get out of any upgrade. My cut off point is strongly weighted against cost as stated above.

Thanks

[LessisNevermore]

Hey Rev.

I'd suggest looking for some Signal Cables on the used market. You might be able to replace what you've listed for close to $200. It might take a while, and you'll probably not find every cable you need in one sale. Be patient, and they'll surface.

[heiney9]

Signal Cable I/C's and if you are into DIY, Canare Star Quad 4S11 speaker cable with banana plugs or spades here (http://www.performanceaudio.com/cgi/browse_brand.cgi?brand=43) at $1.19 per foot that's about as inexepensive as it gets. I use this in my office rig. Nice stuff for not a lot of coin.

H9

[Rev. Hayes]

I think I'm ok with my speaker wire (ultralink audiophile reference series 10 gauge) but I have just bookmarked that link for when I get around to wiring up the man shed proper like. Thanks H9

[Rev. Hayes]

Hey Rev.

I'd suggest looking for some Signal Cables on the used market. You might be able to replace what you've listed for close to $200. It might take a while, and you'll probably not find every cable you need in one sale. Be patient, and they'll surface.

Just got done reading a number of audiogon posts on these cables. Paired with your used suggestion these sound like a good choice. One issue... I saw that a number of people said that Signal cable has a way of "warming" or "calming down" the sound. I would prefer to avoid that as I am currently getting a bit whiny about the "laid back" sound of my system.

Is this something to worry about or is this just nitpicking what would certainly be an improvement over the status quo?

[heiney9]

I think I'm ok with my speaker wire (ultralink audiophile reference series 10 gauge) but I have just bookmarked that link for when I get around to wiring up the man shed proper like. Thanks H9

No problem, but I just realized your specific question was concerning I/C's.....still Signal Cable is great bang-for-the-buck. Some will recommend Mono-Price and I would pre-empt that rec and say stay away as it won't be any better than what you have.

When you get around to doing speaker cables (and those matter; sometimes even more) the Canare is hard to beat.

Good luck

H9

[heiney9]

One issue... I saw that a number of people said that Signal cable has a way of "warming" or "calming down" the sound. I would prefer to avoid that as I am currently getting a bit whiny about the "laid back" sound of my system.

Is this something to worry about or is this just nitpicking what would certainly be an improvement over the status quo?

There isn't much difference between Analog I's and Analog II's but in my experience the Analog II's are tad more laid back than the Analog I's. How they compare to what you have already; I couldn't say other than either of Signals will be smoother and better defined I'm sure. If you find they are too laid back you can flip 'em very easily.

[Rev. Hayes]

I hope some more people weigh in but Signal is sounding like the one. I realize that my price point is rather restrictive so the field is probably pretty small.

Anyhow...

I should also point out the fact that I could go with balanced I/C's between the preamp and amp. I tried this once before with a pair of cheapos I had tangled up in the closet from back in the day when I played music on something other than the stereo. I had been using the monster RCA's and when I switched to the the XLR (in the hope that it might provide a signal boost) it ended up sounding worse. There is a button on the back of the amp to select between the two inputs and I had a friend help me "blind" test them. There was a notable drop in presence and clarity. Was this just a result of the fact that these were cheap mic cables intended for a practice space or what? Could the sound have been affected by having both types of cables plugged in at the same time? I would be willing to try the balanced again if you more experienced folk could explain why the first try was such a flop.

[cfrizz]

You should also look at Blue Jeans Cable & Monoprice for affordable alternatives.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/index.htm
http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218

I use IC's from both & they get the job done.

[Conradicles]

I like SignalCable.
You won't here much about them here on this forum, but IXOS is another great bang for the buck cable in my experience.

[heiney9]

I made some DIY speaker cables out of the IXOS Gamma raw cable. Nice sounding cables. Assessories4less (http://www.accessories4less.com/) sells a full line of IXOS stuff and I have bought from them several times with great success.

Click on Audio Cables...........some good deals at Assessories4less

[concealer404]

I'll throw Audioquest Sidewinders out there.

[Rev. Hayes]

I'll throw Audioquest Sidewinders out there.

yeah, it's too bad the pair on the FM today sold before I even saw the post.
I might have given that a shot.

[kawizx9r]

I'll throw Audioquest Sidewinders out there.

+1

I would say either Signal Cable Analog I's or Sidewinders. Having owned both types, I preferred the Sidewinders. And yeah those were my 2 pairs I just sold, they went quick!

Keep a lookout, they'll surely come up.

[concealer404]

yeah, it's too bad the pair on the FM today sold before I even saw the post.
I might have given that a shot.


Keep your eye out. You can usually find them even new for plenty reasonable prices. :)

But the fact that they sell fast on these forums should show you something. ;)

[heiney9]

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=1301

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=540

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=770

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=848

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=44

[kcoc321]

I'll throw Audioquest Sidewinders out there.

+4 on the Sidewinders. I like mine. I like my AQ Quartz better, but the Sidewinders get me by.

Rev, keep your eye out at your local Goodwill or eq...
I just scored 3 pairs of new style 2m Sidewinders for.......$10 :D

[Rev. Hayes]

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=1301

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=540

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=770

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=848

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=44

Damn dude! I should have you do my grocery list too. :D

The discounted green's look like a good deal. Anyone listen to these before?

[daboyz]

Bang for buck? Signal Analog II's without a doubt,end of story. Just buy and be happy.

[GEBBY44]

I'd even suggest some Belkin PureAV Silver Series IC's if you can find them. They are discontinued but some are still available on Ebay I think. They are great sounding IC's that were better then Signal Analog II's in my opinion. Made of OCC copper like the Outlaw PCA IC's for a cheaper cost.

[Rev. Hayes]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions!

I just placed an order for the belkin's that Gebby44 suggested as I could get the lengths I needed well within my budget.

16' for $34 I just couldn't say no.

I also (pending verification) bought dpowell's Signal analog 2's in CP's flea market moments ago.

I figure at least this way I can play around with them and hear for myself whether it would be worth it to me to save my pennies for the longer runs.

I'll be sure to report back with my impressions.

Thanks again,
Ashley

[cstmar01]

Also look at the audioquest that are below the sidewinder I forgot the name but has a blue jacket. Still a good ic and will run less than the sidewinder. He next step down after that is the alpha snake that is a black jacket I think not as good IMO but still does a great job

[dhart86]

another vote for the audioquest sidewinder. I have a couple pairs of the AQ sidewinders and the AQ copperheads. Great IC's Signal's are good as well.
Look for audioquest on the used market

[Norm Apter]

+1

I would say either Signal Cable Analog I's or Sidewinders. Having owned both types, I preferred the Sidewinders. And yeah those were my 2 pairs I just sold, they went quick!

Keep a lookout, they'll surely come up.

+1

I use MITs on the main 2 channel, but the components of my home theater system and secondary 2 channel rig are linked together exclusively with SC Analog IIs and AQ Sidewinders. I'm very pleased with each of these and have absolutely no intention of upgrading. As others have said, these come up fairly often in the CP Flea Market and Audiogon. But just as they come up frequently, they are snatched frequently (a good sign) so just keep checking. If you're in a rush but have some time on your hands, then maybe follow H9's DIY suggestion.

[F1nut]

I never found Signal cables to be warm.

[Rev. Hayes]

So, what I've ended up with for the moment is:

Signal Cable Analog II's connecting my DVD/cd player to the pre

Belkin Pure AV Silver Series 2 connecting my phono pre to preamp and preamp to amp
(these are 16' runs)

Listening to a burned cd copy of The Asylum Choir's Look Inside- I like this as a reference album because it seems to have everything, lush stings, blaring trumpets, wacky sound effects, rock vocals, honky tonk piano..... but I digress

Well the first thing I noticed was that my bass was much tighter. Not nearly a boomy as it had been. In fact it seemed significantly set back and quiet in the sound stage.

Second thing I noticed was the right channel tweeter cutting in and out during the intro to track 9. This bit is just the sound of a church bell tolling and the tape is slowly sped up over the course of about 15 seconds. As the pitch reached a certain frequency the tweeter (only on the right side) would cut in and out. there was also a good bit of hiss coming out as well, a much louder hiss than the other channel.

I switched my speaker cables (right to left) and the issue followed to the other speaker.... Switched the IC's (right to left) and no change.
:eek:PANIC:eek:
Must be the amp. shut everything down for the night and decided to take'r apart the next day and clean/shake it down.

Now I come home this afternoon and decide to try and rule out a few more
things. Played track 9 and didn't hear the same cut in/out issue but the hiss was still there. Swapped all the cables around and at the this point it looks more to be the cable itself or my preamp.

My sound stage seems much wider but also not nearly as deep.
Instrument isolation within the stage is better but the bass is hiding.

Is this the Burn in Blues or what?
Has anyone else experienced this during a cable change or is it repair time?

[heiney9]

The only I can say is which way you hear it is correct? Perhaps with the new cables the recordings sound closer to how they were recorded. Revisit the bass issue in a couple weeks. At first since it's not as bloated it can seem like it's not there (perhaps that's the way it was recorded) after getting away from the exaggerated, bloated bass you might realize you actually "hear" more natural, organic bass, like it was intended.

H9

P.s. Give it some time for more evaluation.

[Keiko]

I'm betting the cables need time to burn in before they settle down. When I first got my MITs they were really laid back, but once they cooked for awhile they opened up. Give them some time, Rev.

organic bass-I like it, heiney. :D

[Ric5811]

You said the problem switched to the other speaker when reversing speaker cable? Then it's your speaker cable. Could be a loose connection. Or bad wire.

[WilliamM2]

You said the problem switched to the other speaker when reversing speaker cable? Then it's your speaker cable. Could be a loose connection. Or bad wire.

Not if he just switched the wire at the amp end. Then it's probably the amp, as he suspects.

[Ric5811]

Not if he just switched the wire at the amp end. Then it's probably the amp, as he suspects.

That is the big unknown, is it not?!:D

[Rev. Hayes]

Ok, it seems I should address the "unknown"

I did some serious cable swapping and worked back through the system from the output end (speakers) all the way back to the source (cd player).

Final verdict is that my $65 Toshiba bestbuy POS DVD player was the cause of the hiss. No surprise there. It is by far the weakest link in my current system. I usually listen to vinyl so I wasn't too worried about upgrading until now.

The high frequency cutting in and out stopped happening after the first day so I still think the new cable was somehow having an effect on the signal, but it would appear that the for the most part the higher quality cable was just bringing the fault to the foreground.

Overall the sound I'm getting out of my speakers now is an improvement. As I said above the sound stage is more detailed and wider but somehow doesn't seem as deep. The base has tightened up a lot and is a vast improvement over the muddy boom I was getting out of my Lsi9's. Perhaps with some more burn in (currently only about 15 hours or so) it will get even better.

The title of this thread was not an accident...

In the search for the best "Bang" for my buck I feel pretty good. The belkin cables at $34 for 16' were almost obscenely inexpensive. I needed the long run due to some odd space restrictions in my living room. The Belkin Pure AV Silver Series line, phased out of production but still available on ebay, was just what I needed. If anyone else has a similar situation then I would defiantly call these to attention as for me they really fit the bill.

I would still like to try some of the other cables that were suggested above. The price of the most of the other cables mentioned is roughly twice what I paid for the Belkins and may very well provide twice the sonic quality. Even at that higher price I think that the Signals and the Audioquests likely qualify as a Best bang for the buck IC I just can't say so myself as I haven't had the chance to listen. If anyone out there has some long runs of the other cables mentioned and would like to do a temporary swap then I could draw some more conclusions:D

This strikes me as a potentially useful thread for anyone looking to improve their system with cables on a budget so please continue to put out more suggestions if you have some. I may have my problem solved for the moment but I'm not going to just stop trying to make it better and I think we could always stand more threads about how to make your Polk speakers sing like they should without breaking the bank. This is the sort of valuable discussion that brought me to this forum, really got me going in this hobby, and subsequently ruined my life:eek::p:D.

Thanks to everyone at Club Polk,
Ashley

[LessisNevermore]

This is the sort of valuable discussion that brought me to this forum, really got me going in this hobby, and subsequently ruined my life:eek::p:D.


Good stuff! lol
You're sick like the rest, now......:D

[george daniel]

Oyaide gents,,Oyaide.;)

[acmf74]

Does anyone know what cable Signal cable uses? Is it their own propriety brand?

[mole']

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=1301

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=540

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=770

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=848

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=44

some good deals there

[quadzilla]

I like Signal Cable as well, but prefer the extension of the Silver Reference. The top end is smooth, but I don't think I'd call it laid back. I haven't tried the analog series.

[hagmanm2]

+1 on this thread. and +1 on the forum cementing my addiction into hi fi. And a welcome addiction it is. :p

[Outfitter03]

+1 for heiney9 recommendations at HCM audio. Very satisfied and delivery was quick!