Sub for a 5.1 system with Polk 70s and a Pioneer 1020

[disco_al]

I very recently stepped up to a surround sound system for my living room, and i started off by getting a Pioneer 1020 receiver and 5 Polk speakers (Fronts: Monitor 70s, Center: CS2, Rears: Monitor 50s).

The next step will be to make it a truly 5.1 system by adding a subwoofer, which is where i need some help, as although i'd like to not spend a small fortune (wouldn't we all), i do not want to spend a few hundred bucks on a sub that will simply not improve my setup. Here is my info:

1. Budget: I was hoping originally to spend about $250. However, after some research i have a feeling that this amount of money might not be able to buy a sub that would really make an impact in my setup. If there are, please tell me!!! Otherwise, i would be prepared to spend about $400 Max. Spending more than this would have to be justified/necessary if i was to go over.

2. Size requirements/limits: Not really an issue, although i am planning on placing the sub in a front corner underneath a small table with a space underneath it measuring 18" x 21" x 18" High. So ideally the sub would be less than 18" tall, and within 18" by 21". If it was long and has to stick out from under the table, then the max width would be 14" due to the legs.

3. Room dimensions: My living room is 23 feet long by 13 feet wide, with main couch 13 feet from TV and front speakers (and the sub will most likely be this far away also). The house is a "double-wide", and the long left side of the living room is essentially open (very small walls at each end), to a kitchen and dining room/morning room area. So the entire open space is about 23 feet long, by 26 feet wide. Ceiling height varies but is approx 8 feet. So the living room is approx: 300 square feet, 2400 cubic feet. Entire space is approx 600 square feet, 4800 cubic feet.

4. Primary uses: My wife and I watch a lot of TV, and when we (or I) get the chance, we like to watch Movies (Blu-Ray, DVD, Cable) and play video games (PS3, Wii). Every now and then we play music if having a party but not often. So approx: 70% Cable TV, 20% Movies, 9% Video games, 1% Music.

5. Listening Habits: Most of the time (70%?) we listen at a "regular" level, but we also like to enjoy a movie or video game "properly" once in a while (i.e. pretty loud!), which is why i decided to invest some money in the whole 5.1 surround system in the first place. We don't usually "crank it" while watching cable but sometimes we do, and we don't always "crank it" when watching movies or playing games, but most of the time we do!

6. Appearance requirements: Not important to me - will be visible tucked away (hopefully) under a table in the corner, but not front and center so doesn't really matter.

7. Timeframe: I can wait for the right sub, not in any kind of rush, taking my time to work out what sub will actually make a difference to my setup, and for what cost.

So that's all my info. Please let me know what you think would work well in this setup, and also why perhaps some subs won't. Any and all help will be appreciated!

[kawizx9r]

Just to throw something out there, if you're already more or less set on where you're going to place your subwoofer then I'm going to say that you won't get much from whatever subwoofer you end up purchasing.

Half the battle is picking the right subwoofer, the other half is placement (which goes along with tuning/blending in with mains).

Just my .02

-Freddy

[disco_al]

True, thanks for the input. It could move around somewhat, i'd just like it if it did end up where i want it to.
If i can't place it anywhere else though, the system will surely benefit from having a sub rather than none at all? And there will be differences between a $200, $300 and $400 sub i would have thought?

[kawizx9r]

There can be alot of differences in what sub you choose from even if it's just a few hundred dollars difference depending what you're looking for.

I'm sure after everything you've mentioned above, you'll get a few good recommendations.

Btw, not sure if you posted this or not but does it have to be new?

Always get more for your money if you go used ;)

Even more if you build it yourself like I did!

[rubin]

Just to throw something out there, if you're already more or less set on where you're going to place your subwoofer then I'm going to say that you won't get much from whatever subwoofer you end up purchasing.

Half the battle is picking the right subwoofer, the other half is placement (which goes along with tuning/blending in with mains).

Just my .02

-Freddy

Corner loading is best for max impact.

[kawizx9r]

Corner loading is best for max impact.

That's very subjective.

I always pulled my subs away from corners because I had alot of 'boominess'. Though it could be cured with bass traps, it was much cheaper (free actually) to move the subwoofer out and away from a corner. I'm more of a music guy and subs in a corner are the last thing I'd do.

Like I said though, it's very subjective. You might not like the tighter/more accurate sound that I'd get (in my personal experience with specific subs).

Edit: Since I mentioned the sub I built, here's an example.

I had a pair of SDA 1C's hooked up to a fully modified and upgraded NYAL Moscode 300 Tube Hybrid high-current amp. The bass from those speakers shook EVERYTHING!

When I built my sub, it was hell trying to get it to blend in with my SDA's. Even with the bass the SDA's put out, the sub I had built reached down to 18hz and it would pressurize the room like hell. Pulling the beast far out of the corner helped it alot and it sounded alot more accurate.

[messiah]

Hey Al, here's something local (to you) that is a nice sub for the price.

http://syracuse.craigslist.org/ele/1950183593.html

You're not going to do much better for that price.

Some reviews:

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/subwoofers/paradigm-reference/ps-1000/PRD_121036_2741crx.aspx

[rubin]

That's very subjective.

I always pulled my subs away from corners because I had alot of 'boominess'. Though it could be cured with bass traps, it was much cheaper (free actually) to move the subwoofer out and away from a corner. I'm more of a music guy and subs in a corner are the last thing I'd do.

Like I said though, it's very subjective. You might not like the tighter/more accurate sound that I'd get (in my personal experience with specific subs).

Edit: Since I mentioned the sub I built, here's an example.

I had a pair of SDA 1C's hooked up to a fully modified and upgraded NYAL Moscode 300 Tube Hybrid high-current amp. The bass from those speakers shook EVERYTHING!

When I built my sub, it was hell trying to get it to blend in with my SDA's. Even with the bass the SDA's put out, the sub I had built reached down to 18hz and it would pressurize the room like hell. Pulling the beast far out of the corner helped it alot and it sounded alot more accurate.

Subjective yes, to each his own. However I've always craved powerful,overwhelming bass, therefore corners work for me. BTW 2 of the subs in my arrangement are rated to 10Hz (when adjusting the appropriate amp controls);)

[messiah]

Subjective yes, to each his own. However I've always craved powerful,overwhelming bass, therefore corners work for me. BTW 2 of the subs in my arrangement are rated to 10Hz (when adjusting the appropriate amp controls);)

What subs do you have that hit 10hz?

[kawizx9r]

Subjective yes, to each his own. However I've always craved powerful,overwhelming bass, therefore corners work for me. BTW 2 of the subs in my arrangement are rated to 10Hz (when adjusting the appropriate amp controls);)

I prefer subs that blend seamlessly with my mains. Sounds much more natural (to me). Again, that's just my preference.

Figured if alot of us purchase speakers from the same make/model when it comes to HT, why not try to blend in your sub as much as you can with your mains?

[rubin]

I prefer subs that blend seamlessly with my mains. Sounds much more natural (to me). Again, that's just my preference.

Figured if alot of us purchase speakers from the same make/model when it comes to HT, why not try to blend in your sub as much as you can with your mains?

You have your pref. I have mine. I'm sure you can adjust your system to provide as much or little/tight or boomy bass as you want. As can I. Powerful accurate bass is the most important aspect in a sound system to me and that's what I get with the subwoofers I have.

[rubin]

What subs do you have that hit 10hz?

SVS Ultras, the amps have a switchable subsonic filter labled 20,15,10 Hz. Below that there is also a (sealed) option which goes even lower.

[messiah]

SVS Ultras, the amps have a switchable subsonic filter labled 20,15,10 Hz. Below that there is also a (sealed) option which goes even lower.

Nice, those things are beasts.

[rubin]

Nice, those things are beasts.

Thanks, here's a pic

[rubin]

Close up!

[spock 2054]

I prefer subs that blend seamlessly with my mains. Sounds much more natural (to me). Again, that's just my preference.

Figured if alot of us purchase speakers from the same make/model when it comes to HT, why not try to blend in your sub as much as you can with your mains?

Have you looked at the BIC-PL200? Reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-PL-200-Acoustech-Platinum-Subwoofer/product-reviews/B001W3FXAQ/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

At $330, it's a very accurate sub - and it should pass the wife acceptance factor..

[pearsall001]

Look into a used SVS cylinder sub...a great sub for your application. I'm sure they can be had within your budget.

[disco_al]

Yeah i've seen lots about the PL-200, it seems to be a very popular sub, and i'm certainly considering it at the moment. I was thinking of trying one PL-200, and could then go to two of them if needed. However, i don't know if even 2 x PL-200 would be good, as others have said it might not be worth it for my size room.

So at the moment i need to decide whether or not 1 and then perhaps 2 PL-200 subs would be good. Or if neither will work, then i need to work out what "better" sub to get, and whether or not i would need two of those or if one would suffice.

[spock 2054]

Yeah i've seen lots about the PL-200, it seems to be a very popular sub, and i'm certainly considering it at the moment. I was thinking of trying one PL-200, and could then go to two of them if needed. However, i don't know if even 2 x PL-200 would be good, as others have said it might not be worth it for my size room.

So at the moment i need to decide whether or not 1 and then perhaps 2 PL-200 subs would be good. Or if neither will work, then i need to work out what "better" sub to get, and whether or not i would need two of those or if one would suffice.

Al - looks like you have champagne tastes on a beer budget. lol. If you want a sub that hits really low, epik is the way to go, but they are beyond your price delta. Probably the best thing to do is to purchase a sub from a vendor that won't charge you a crazy restocking fee, and give it a shot with music, and movies that have lots of good low frequency effects.

2 subs can sound great if they are placed properly and balanced within your environment. My subs produce great low end that I can hear, and also feel in the seat of my pants. They are also very detailed when producing bass notes when listening to music - not tubby or muddy.

Do you have carpeting in your room? Is it possible to post a pic or two of your room?

Link:
Subwoofer Connection Guide For A Multi Subwoofer System
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/subwoofer-connection-guide





Thanks.

[disco_al]

Thanks for all the posts so far. I am willing to spend a bit more if i think it's deserved. If i think the PL-200 will offer something then i'll give it a go. If i doubt how much impact it will have, then i'm prepared to step up to something beefier (like anEpik).

I am meaning to take some pictures so i'll get around to it and post em up.

[mudwrx]

Surprised to see no one has mentioned the PSW505. Can be had for under $250, very common recommendation here as many users have it. I own one and love it.
My listening habits are about the same as yours. This things rocks for movies, TV and games. Don't recall the exact dimensions but it is somewhat large.