opinions change

[MTXMAN]

when i was a child i thought like a child... acted like a child... and viewed car audio as a child... Now i have put my childish ways behind me... bye bye MTX I have seen the beauty of Diamond Audio and i have seen that it is good. I'm actually considering changing my sn for here to reflect my recent awakening into the relm of High end car audio... Don't get me wrong... I still think MTX makes a good product but i have lately gotten to sample some of what else is out there...

Here's what i'm looking at for my set up..

2 Diamond audio Hex series component sets (need to check price on them)
Eclipse 4 ch amp
Eclipse headunit (model below top of line)(8v outputs but i need to find out what they clip at...)
1 Diamond Audio THD 12" sub with dual 2 ohm voice coils.
Eclipse 2 ch D amp (2 2000w peak mono amps in one case ;D) (pending research on what rms output is at 2 ohm) each channel running 1 voice coil in a mono mode for the whole amp...

let me know what you guys think...

bty tsunami silencer dampening material throughout the car... Tsunami 12ga speaker wire (got a 100ft spool for $37 at CC cost)
4ga power wire for 4 ch; 1/0 ga wire for sub amp
making my own RCA's ;D... a local shop has some realy good rca parts if you can foot the bill...

Tell me whatcha think... All input welcome... still amazed at the gorgeous sound from that 12" THD...

[Josh]

I think you should go with Polk. I've heard they make some decent stuff.

[PoweredByDodge]

bahahahahhaahahahahahahahaha -- he compared polk to diamond hex....



i'm gonna frickin fall of my chair.




the hex comps are pretty damned sweet. diamond subs are no slouches either... i've only had the pleasure of hearing htem a couple times, one was a wall of 6 diamond subs with old school Esoteric Audio amplifiers. *drool* me thinx they were not 4000w each, lolol. i'm pretty sure he was running 6 1000w amps. i think a 4k watt diamond sub would blow my head off.


mtx has never made a good coaxial, never made a sub that i'd consider better than middle class (nothin wrong w/ middle class, its where msot all of us start out) ... but the amps i do so love.

they're not the cleanest, never will be, not the best audio properties, never will be.... but they dont break down, they're easy to fix on the rare occasion that they do, and they do gobs of power with adequate SQ at a cheap price. and when you want more power ???? BRIDGE EM.

Eclipse amps i do not like in anyway whatsoever -- headunits, great ... subs, great ... amps, no way in hell. The couple I heard have sounded hallow and i've never heard anyone say anything good about them.

if you're going to dump all that diamond gear into your car u mgiht as well look at diamond amps too.

Cadence / old Orion HCCA / USamps / PPI / "A/D/S" / Zapco Studio / or blow the bank and go Tru Technology and never look back, ever.


you're gonna be pushin taht 0 gauge to the limit - 4000w is just about 290A of draw -- finally someone who's gonna actually use 0 gauge to full potential!!!!



good choice on teh diamond -- which in reality ought only be compared to Focal, Rainbow, ID, Alpine flagship, because that's teh class it's in.


If the polkies would like the Polk Momo 6" comp set to be of that quality, then they should research, design, and build it better.

The momo comp set is in the grade / class of alpine type R comps, infinity kappa perfect comps, kicker, etc etc.

[PoweredByDodge]

u know i just thought about something -- when i was spouting amp companies -- u need 2000 watts at 2 ohms... and two of thos -- hell not many people make something like that.

i think USamps would be about it. they've got 2000 x 1 class AB bridgeable at 1 and 4 ohms (2000a / 2000x) both are AB's, its just a matter of what ohm load they do power at.

zapco u'd have to go with a symbilink proc and the c2k 9.0 which is overrated as it is.

other than USA - there's the true tech sledge hammer -- can be had online for about $1,500 dollars and runs 5000 x 1 watts at 1 ohm (two 2 ohm coils off that one amp). its class AB mono (already bridged in effect inside the amp... its mono but not a class D). now that's an amp that'll get you attention --- its the size of my torso -- and i'm a fat guy...lol.

[MTXMAN]

I'm definately going to look into that true tech amp :D:D big is fun... may need to remove my back seats...hmm... (gears whirring in head...planning...planing...) What 4 ch amp would you recomend for 2 hex comp sets (also does anyone know a general price range for those??)... need to spend a lot of time online today looking into new brands... Starting to get into the big leagues now... I've had enough of the small fries... (i'll always be a fan of MTX though cause they make pretty good midgrade gear ;D)

no offense polkies i love my MM6's but they arn't quite in the same class as Diamond, Boston, and some others ;D

[MTXMAN]

*shivers run down spine* dreaming about that true tech amp... What's their website i definately want to look into that but i've taken several stabs at website names and can't find it... do you have an addy for them??

[Jstas]

Dude, PBD, how, in God's name could you possible FORGET

COLOSSUS!!!!! (http://www.carstereotime.com/default.asp?action=details&productid=XI-COLLOSSUS)
http://www.carstereotime.com/hifonics/thor.jpg

600 watts x 2 channels into 4 Ohms (stereo)
900 watts x 2 channels into 2 Ohms (stereo)
1200 watts x 2 channels 1 Ohm (stereo)
1800 watts x 1 channel into 4 Ohms (bridged)
2400 watts x 1 channel into 2 Ohms (bridged)
Generation XI Series Amplifiers
Full MOSFET AmplifierRegulated Power Supply
0 - 18dB Variable Bass EQ
Fully Adjustable Crossovers with Variable SlopesBalanced
Line Inputs (with optional XI-BLD module)Line Outputs
Phase Shift (with optional XI-BLDP1P module)
Jacks for Remote Adjustment and Operation
(with optional XI-R1)Subsonic Filters
(10 - 150Hz)1 Ohm Stable



Yes, that says 2400 watts x 1 channel BRIDGED, into 2 OHMS!

That right there is a pile of audio grunt for less than 1400 bucks from CarStereoTime.com!

[MTXMAN]

You forget though i'm going to be running 1 ohm mono...

[Jstas]

Originally posted by MTXMAN
You forget though i'm going to be running 1 ohm mono...

See, this is going to sound mean and well, it is but, I don't care what you are going to be running. I was razzing Vinnie and truthfully, 2400 watts at 2 ohms on a bridged amp is pretty fricking impressive.

[MTXMAN]

oh i'll admit it's a DAMN nice amp... If i were getting the dual 4 ohm model i'd look into that but the 5000x1@1ohm sounds more suited to my needs ;D

[PoweredByDodge]

john u're right hifonics totally slipped my mind...

i've been in amp hell lately -- huntin amps w/ cody, tryin to get shit fixed around here -- my blue thunder clipped on me today for absolutely no reason -- i mean it was hot as hell and i ran it for 2 hrs at full power but u dont usually get that "clip out and come back in" thing...

ya got me tho --- forgot HiFonics ...

that'd prolly be more relibale -- better looking, and less "power plant lookin" than the Sledge Hammer, but hey -- a sledge is a sledge.

i'm tryin to load up the site for tru tech now -- its givin me fits -- its a graphic intensive flash website...

here... http://www.trutechnology.com/main.htm

that's the main portal.

the specific product is the "SH-1 Sledge Hammer" amplifier... and can be found at ....
http://www.trutechnology.com/hammer_series.htm

if you're gonna do tru tech u might as well get a tru tech amp for highs.. the copper series is absolutely frighteningly clean... the sheets on it make Zapco look like Pyramid or Legacy. T03 series is pretty sweet too and more closely astheticly resembles the SH-1

here's the paper rating on the SH-1 --- it'll come outa the box better than this...
Model: SH-1
Channels: 1 CH
Frequency Response: 10Hz ~ 300Hz ±1dB
Rated Power: 14.4 Volts DC
T.H.D.: < 0.1%
4 Ohm RMS: 2000W x 1*
2 Ohm RMS: 3000W x 1
1 Ohm RMS: 4000W x 1**
S/N Ratio: > 100dB
Input Sensitivity: 0.16 ~ 4 Volts
Damping Factor: > 700
Efficiency: 69.10%
Fuse Requirement: 120 x2 Amp
Power Supply: 11 ~ 16 Volts DC
Low Pass @ 18dB / oct: 40Hz ~ 300Hz
Sub-Sonic: 10Hz ~ 100Hz @ 24dB
Remote Bass Knob: Yes
Bass Boost: No
Dimensions (L x W x H): 15" x 8 13/16" x 6 3/4"
Weight: 23.5 lbs.

* H-1: 300W x 1, SH-1: 600W x 1
(Competition Power Rating)
** For Competition Use Only


the label "for comp use only" has nothing to do withthe amp's ability to stay cool / functin -- rather its a warning about power... its going to draw SICK amounts of power --- and will kill most alt/batt setups unless u do a real good upgrade.

if you're going to dump the cash into one of these things, dont be afraid to just call up tru tech and ask to talk to one of their engineers about what exactly you cant and cant do in your car... and what the exact performance of that amp will be... i'm sure they wont have a problem spending osme time on you considering the price tag of their gear.

[MTXMAN]

as gorgeous as those are i think i'd probably need to recharge my batt every 4 blocks... any idea of pricing on the SH and the copper amps ??

[PoweredByDodge]

this dude Vic sold one used (he was a competitior, used it twice, then got sponsored so had to sell his non-whatever company gear) for 1300 --- i've seen others go online either used or new wholesale for 1500 -- retail is probably 2500 or maybe more.

Crossfire VR2000D's can be had on ebay for 750 new in box -- thats just another sugg.

a D is gonna be like 40% more efficient than an AB and thus not annihilate the electrical quite so much - but if u can beef up the alt and get like 4 batteries the AB's the way to go.

the copper series are probably like 750 for a 4 channel. they're vastly underrated... if they're doin like 50 at 0.0001 thd, they're doin like 80 or 100 at 0.1%

they're car killer amps -- best to talk to one of their guys to figure out a battle plan, that way it all goes perfect.

[MTXMAN]

cool... also got a recomendation for the new PlanetAudio Titan Series TT2250D here's the specs...

Class D
Max Power (1 ohm) 2250x1
rms power (2 ohms) 1500x1
rms power (4 ohms) 800x1
signal-to-noise Ratio 100db
frequency response 20hz- 250hz
comes with a 175 amp fuse

The guy told me they had a great thd rating at 1 ohm even but i can't for the life of me remember what it was...

I'd be running 2 Diamond Audio dual 2 ohm vc TDX subs one amp per sub at one ohm each amp... those subs are 2000w rms i believe... What do you guys think and what do you know about planet audio...

I think the SH would probably be overkill and i'm not wanting to do too much more than new alternator, replace factory batt, and add one more batt... oh yeah and caps too if needed :D

[MTXMAN]

ps this is the amp that the sub was running off of at 2 ohms in their sound room and it was the best "sound room" performance i've heard from a sub...

oh yeah they retail for just under a grand each too...

[MTXMAN]

i have this habit of forgetting things and then replying to my own message don't i...

I found out today that the Eclipse deck i'm looking at (the non drydeck...) has non clipping 8v outputs...8v is whatcha get... This is one of their two comp grade decks the other is a drydeck with balanced outputs and a copper chasis... only about a 100buck diff between the two but i'm taking the non drydeck for ease of resale later on... oh yeah and it turns out that i'm going to have to get their "comander advance" to be able to play mp3's another $350.... but it'll let me talk to my car too... something to impress friends with... basic it controlls the stereo... you can also have it require a security code at system startup and wire it to alert a theft tracking device if they don't give the right code (i just know i'd get into my car stoned and forget about it one time...) And you can have it controll your windows/ wipers/ etc... it's actually pretty cool....

[PoweredByDodge]

if that deck has true non clipping 8 v outs then you had better get amplifiers that have 8 v tolerance on inputs or else you're gonna have a hell of a time (or maybe impossible time) tuning that system.

8 v outs are usually meant to be split --- and while voltage doesn't split in parallel, current does, and relative power as a result does.

an 8 v output split is still 8 v to each amp, but it may only function as 4 or so.

a true 8 v non clipping out is something i always wanted but always feared... not a whole lotta amps tolerate 8 v ins...

RF is only 6 v tolerant... mtx is 8 v.... most everything else at circuit city and retail chains is 4 or 5 volt.

Cadence is like 7 volt i think

just keep that in mind when shopping for amps -- figure out how u want to wire this stuff, and if you're not gonna be splitting that particular output (whether frtont / rear / sub / whatever) be sure the amp u put on it is 8 v tolerant... else u may even end up damaging the amp.

[Cybernetik]

With the system you're thinking of you might want to e-mail Doug Chuchian of Endless Speed and Sound. He uses Diamond subs, U.S. Amps, Eclipse head unit (I think) in his red Lexus SC300. If you want to drool all over your keyboard go to endless-speed.com and look in the customer cars section. Its pretty hard to miss his Lexus. His e-mail is on the site too.

[MTXMAN]

is anybody in here familiar with planet audio... i'm also looking at their 4 ch which i believe is 125x4 RMS at .08 thd.... not quite positive on this though...

[PoweredByDodge]

USamps 2000a --- 2000 x 1 at 1 ohm.

or the 2000x -- 2000 x 1 at 4 ohms.

both are class AB with specs that match or better zapco.

they're goin used on ebay for about 5 or 6 bills... new for around 8 or 9.

[MTXMAN]

Here are more acurate specs on the Planet Audio 4 ch amp I was looking at...

AP500.4

Max Power (2 ohm) : 250w x 4
RMS Power (4 Ohms) : 125w x 4 @ 0.04% THD
Bridged Power (4 Ohms) : 500w x 2
Signal-to-Noise Ratio : 102dB
Frequency Response : 20Hz-20kHz
Dimensions: : 21-3/8"L x3"H x 12-1/4"W

That one is from their "Apocalypse" line

Let me know what you guys think of that and this D class amp as well

TT2250D
Max Power (1 ohm) : 2250w x 1
RMS Power (2 ohms) : 1500w x 1
RMS Power (4 ohms) : 800w x 1
Signal-to-Noise Ratio : 100dB
Frequency Response : 20Hz-20kHz
Dimensions: : 19-9/16"L x2-1/4"H x 11-3/4"W

That's from the Titan series...

any comments on those amps or Planet Audio in general would be appreciated...
If you want more info here's their website www.planetaudiousa.com

Thanks Guys :D

[Thom]

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
both are class AB with specs that match or better zapco.



Zapco's entry- level?

[Thom]

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
bahahahahhaahahahahahahahaha -- he compared polk to diamond hex....



i'm gonna frickin fall of my chair.


good choice on teh diamond -- which in reality ought only be compared to Focal, Rainbow, ID, Alpine flagship, because that's teh class it's in.


If the polkies would like the Polk Momo 6" comp set to be of that quality, then they should research, design, and build it better.

The momo comp set is in the grade / class of alpine type R comps, infinity kappa perfect comps, kicker, etc etc.


That's funny, I remember tying Ryan Chin in SQ at IASCA finals last year. He's got Focal speakers and Zapco comp. amps. I've got Polk (MM6) speakers and Zapco Reference amps (the cheap stuff). Product isn't everything- install and tuning count for quite a bit. And I'm half deaf.

The MM6 replacement (which won't happen soon) will bump up to a higher price point, allowing us to make a better system.

[PoweredByDodge]

Originally posted by Thom
Zapco's entry- level?

i'll neglect to compare anything but the 1000 watt / 2000 watt amps, as the smaller stuff was not the topic of this post, and fact is, over an entire line of amps, there will be so many different nuances that its not worth comparing, nothing clear will come from it... however, the few 1000 w / 2000w amps were of question, and i do support my opinion that the USamps stuff in that range will equal or better the zapco stuff.

this means equal or better the studio, and the two competition lines... not just the entry reference

examples...

#1)
Zapco Studio 500 -- 1000 x 1 bridged at 4 ohms
THD = 0.012%
damping factor = >900
slew rate = 50 v / us

USamps USA1000X -- 1000 x 1 bridged at 4 ohms
THD = <0.006%
damping factor = >800
slew rate = 150 v / us

slight push goes to the USA1000x

---------------
#2)
Zapco Comp Z600SL2 -- 900 x 1 at 2 ohms bridged
THD = 0.01%
damping factor = > 1000
slew rate = 75 v / us

USamps USA1000a -- 1000 x 1 bridged at 2 ohms
THD = <0.006%
damping factor = >800
slew rate = 150 v / us

again, 2 of 3 criteria in favor of the USA 1000a
-------------------

#3)
so lets look at the big magilla amps...

Zapco C2k 9.0XD --- 2200 x 1 at 2 ohms mono
THD = < 0.05%
damping factor = > 225
slew rate = > 20v/us (looks like MTX's specs on a really good day... but its class T(D) so figures...)

USamps 2000a( or X) --- 2000 x 1 bridged at 2 (or 4) ohms
THD = < 0.006%
damping factor = > 1,000
slew rate = 150 v/us

clearly, the 2000a(x) wins that battle.

now the best part of this is price -- 1000a(x) can be had for as little as 400 bucks brand new in box on ebay if you're lucky... 500 if you're not... 2000a(x) new in box for around 800 - 900.

the cheapest you're gonna find the C2k 9.0 is 1350 new in box -- i was quoted 1150 for a used (shore shelf display) one.

cosmetically usamps will always look like something from 1985 or at best "old" orion... but that's not their deal... power power and more power.

[Thom]

The Studio and the Z600 are both way out of production. Zapco hasn't made either in years. Anytime I've seen a review of Zapco amps they put out a bit more power than they're rated at (especially the big ones). I'll agree that the power/ dollar ratio is never in Zapco's favor. The way companies measure output varies since there's no standard, so it's hard to say from the manufacturer's ratings which amp puts out more. THD ratings are also measured differently between companies.

I was just wondering what you meant by "better." The US Amps might be a better choice for some people but I'd hesitate to call it the "better" amp outright.

[PoweredByDodge]

keeping up with zapco is hard.

the product i posted is what they've got on their website, and the two times iv'e considered buying zapco product and have contacted "dealers" all the would sell me is studio / ref / or the new c2k stuff.

since there are no local dealers, i've no way of getting my hands on anything for a new product handle.

usamps for anything other than the couple amps i posted may very well be a bad choice for other stuff.

their "smaller" amps aren't quite on par with the bigger ones as far as spec goes and i've not yet heard more than one person be hapy with their amps for anything but sub appications... the 1000/2000 are what they hang their hat on.

the only other am i'd buy from them is the 2 channel tube amp... just to get ahold of a rugged tube amp for cheap.

i've heard zapco reference amps put down heftier competition for use on highs... proof positive the amp is more important than the speaker... kid was running bazooka subs (the old style) and bazooka highs (yuck) with zapco reference amps (god those suckers are LONG)... sounded amazing. ... still hate bazooka.

[MTXMAN]

Umm..... I'm taking it no one has an opinion on planet audio????

I realy want to go with a D class amp though for my subs... I know the sq isn't quite as good as with an AB but i'm already spending over 600 just on the electrical upgrades (200 amp alt's are expensive... 2 gelcell bat's to boot one for trunk one for engine, trunk will run sub amps and regular car bat will run my 4ch) and that's not counting caps as part of the electrical system... So PBD oh king of the car audio forums you ;D If you would be willing to take a look at Planet Audio's website www.planetaudiousa.com and check out their specks (I think they have manuals viewable too) and give me a second opinion I would greatly appreciate it... The seem to be pretty good to me but i'm far from an expert... Just an enthusiast ;D

Thanks again for all the help guys :D:D

[MTXMAN]

also considering a type T amp... Do you know who makes good T amps in the power range i'm looking for???

[PoweredByDodge]

very quickly let me say that if youre running subwoofers and obviously x-ing over under 200 hertz, getting a very good class D versus getting a class T is going to be like absolutely no difference whatsoever... T is the "full version" of D... T functions like D, has the shitty ass SQ of D and poor overall ratings (minus THD, thd seems to be better but that may simply be because usually its a Zapco or a company of that grade that builds a T... so i'm guessin if zapco made a D it would have just as good ratings as their T's)... class T just will run full range though -- the full frequency spectrum, whereas D is limited.

anyway - imma go check out planet for ya... back in a moment.

[PoweredByDodge]

it's been downloading for 10 minutes and all iv'e got so far is like 53%... christ...

hey 92% now we're makin progress... 25 minutes later...

ok...

well

THD at rated power is 0.5%
damping factor at 4 ohms is 400.. its going to drop as the load decreases...
doesn't even list a slew rate.

i dunno.

most comapnies will give you damping factor, slew rate, and thd at rated power at rated ohm load. or at least something close to that.

they dont.

call them up.

if the slew rate is @ least 20 v/us
and the damping factor is @ least 150 at 1 ohm and rated power

then go ahead and snag the amp because its going to give you a similar performance to an mtx 81000d. just dont spend too much on it.

if its better then good -- as those numbers go up -- amp performance will too. and gauge price accordingly.

but do call them up and find out.

[MTXMAN]

hmm... finally they got back to me it's a $1000 amp (bout 600-750 on ebay) it has a slew rate of 15v/us and a dampening factor of 65 at 1 ohm.... the word overpriced comes to mind... considering dishing out the extra grand per amp and getting diamond d7 amps.... (lots of cash though :( )
any other suggestions of a D class amp with around 2000 to 2500 w at 1ohm for about a grand with better slew and dampening???

[PoweredByDodge]

why not just run two?

i know nobody likes mtx, but you can get two 81000D's brand new off ebay for 290 bucks each ... thats 600 bucks for almost 3,000 watts... at least 2500 watts... and all u gotta do is get a sub that is dual 2 ohm coil and run one amp to each coil.

[PoweredByDodge]

btw, - the 81kd is 20v / us and greater than 200 d.f. -- not spectacular but certainly not bad by any stretch of the imagination for a class D amp considereing what i've been seeing lately, including the one you stated.

[MTXMAN]

i'm realy looking for something with cleaner power for those diamond TDX's... i just don't think MTX is in the class to power those properly... I'm going to have two Diamond TDX subs in my trunk (12's) and i need an amp in about the 1000 dollar range that will power them well... I'd love to go with the diamond amps but those are double my prefered price range... And i realy think D is going to be my best bet for the power and small drain to my electrical...

[sntnsupermen131]

what kind of amp are you looking for?
as in how many watts?
are theyr 4 ohm speakers?
-Cody

[PoweredByDodge]

well that's the problem -- u're hooked on class D -- in that class you're not going to get much or any better than the specs of the MTX... u can look down on the nameplate all u want, hell i've gotten to doing so a bit lately, but in the class D category, regardless of manufacturer, it doesn't get much better... but that is simply due to the limitations of the class D design.

i still think a USamps 2000 would obliterate anything else. 2k x 1 at 2 ohms or 2k x 1 at 4 ohms (X model). that's like 900 on ebay i think. but thats class AB

the zapco c2k 6.0 is like 1400 watts at 2 ohms and its got much better specs than most class D's.... its not up as good as the USamps, but it is a class D.... retail is like 1300 bucks i believe.

however, in the end, two 81000d's would blow the casing off the c2k 6.0 or even the 2000x... loud is loud... 3000 watts is 3000 w.

[C-Man]

http://caraudio.primediaautomotive.com/archives/spfeatures/0202_spfeatures01.shtml


http://www.caraudiomag.com/specialfeatures/0202cae_amp/

Check those out man. They both compare 4 different amp setups around 2kw. Pretty much the same comparison, but the second gives you rankings for the amps in different categories.

By the way I just wanted to tell you guys about a douchebag I saw on some site that was running a C2K 9.0 at 8 ohms to a single MB Quart 12". Then he was running a C2K 6.0 to a set of MB Quart comps... and on top of all of it he was running his factory speakers for rear fill.... Um............ WHY!!! Hell, if he wanted Zapco, get the 1100m and run it at 2 ohm for the same amount of power. I'm gonna find that link too.

http://www.m-emag.com/article.asp?section_id=11&article_id=66&page_number=4

[MTXMAN]

k, Refresher on what the subs are... 2 dual 2ohm VC 12" Diamond Audio TDX subs, i believe that they are 2000wrms, planing on running them on a one ohm load with one amp for each sub... hoping to get each amp for around a grand (can go a little over for better quality if i need to to get the sound i want)
I can also go with the dual 4ohm model and run 2 ohm if i can't find a suitable 1ohm stable amp...

[C-Man]

Any of the amp setups in that link should work except for maybe the Crossfire since it's two amps already. You can run the C2k or the USAmps at 4 ohms and get over 2k from each amp. The earthquakes you can run at 1 ohm I believe. So any of those should be ok for you.

Plus with the C2K and the Us Amps, if you run them at 4 ohm you'll get better sound quality, lower thd, better slew rate, better damping factor, all that good stuff.

The earthquake puts out about 1900 I believe it said. At 649 that's a pretty good deal.

[PoweredByDodge]

the problem with earthquake, and why i never even came close to mentioning them, is the same as pointed out by the authors of the articles posted --- they're filthy... they make mtx look as clean as Vaccuum Tube amps.

the specs on the zapco 9.0 are very similar to the mtx as well.... spec for spec down the list... one is left to wonder "why bother buying this zapco, it puts out 2k watts but its no cleaner than circuit city stuff"...

just about nobody makes a CLEAN 2000 watt amp... its hard to do, its not cheap, and its not a highly demanded for item.

i'll not interrupt the post anymore w/ my incessant banter :) however i'll stick by my first reccomendation -- Tru Tech Sledge Hammer at 5000 x 1 at 1 ohm (will cost you less than 2000 dollars if you look around and dig), or two USA-2000x's (1800 bucks).

[MTXMAN]

I'm thinking i like the looks of the dual usa amps... mainly cause i want to keep my sub and 4ch amps the same brand and while the c7 from Trutech is a beautiful beast of an amp i think i would go through an alternator a day even with 2 batts in the trunk if i were going with that and the sledge hammer... gonna go look at usa 4ch's now... oh yeah and i think the 3 usa amps will probably fit better in my trunk too... 96 Saturn SC1, not the worlds smallest trunk but it's not that big either...



P.S. PBD i happen to enjoy your incessent rambling ;)

[MTXMAN]

Here's a beast to rival even the sledge...

USA-6000
Two Channel Class AB Amplifier
Total Power Output: 6000 Watts RMS
THD at Rated Power: 0.1%
Signal/Noise Ratio: >105dBA
Frequency Response: 5Hz-50KHz
Damping Factor: >2500
Fuse Rating: 900 Amps
Dimensions:
114mm / 4.50in High
229mm / 9.0in Wide
629mm / 24.75in Long

Weight: 14.52kg / 32.00lb
Variable 24dB Low-Pass Active Crossover



One Ohm Stable
3000 Watts x 2 into 1 Ohms
6000 Watts Bridged into 2 Ohms
Available in Black or Chrome

*drools* that 900 amp fuse rating will suck the lifeblood from your car though....

[MTXMAN]

Downside about usamps is that their 4 ch doesn't pack much of a punch... I'm worried that that 75x4 @ 4 ohm isn't gonna cut it for Diamond Audio Hex components... I don't think i'll have enough room for 2 2ch amps either............I need a bigger trunk....

[C-Man]

Dude, that's not an amp..............that's a powerplant! If you were able to get that amp you'd have to be the biggest pimp on the block. But you'd have to be careful of one thing... You'd have to be careful of the thermo-nuclear core located in an airtight room about a half mile deep inside the amp. Trigger that and the fallout will probably kill millions! :D

[PoweredByDodge]

that's a big ass amp -- from what i've been told / can tell that's not a daily driver amp... like i mean not only would your car not be able to power it, but its not built to be run all day long, or even for a few horus, its built for burps. to use it for anything else may "hurt" it.

kinda like low gearing a vehicle to give u power to get outa the ditch and then tryin to peel down the highway with it.


you can run the sledge all day. but again -- u're car would take a dump.


anyway - back to the topic at hand, you're kinda set on sub amps, but u're stressin a 4 channel.

well.... can you get 2 ohm components ??
if you can then u can do like 90 x 2 to the fronts @ 2 ohm and 75 (or less) by 2 to the backs at 4 ohm...

4300X will do 75 x 4 / 90 x 4.

TU-4360 tube amp is gonna do 75 x 4 into 4 ohms / 90 x 4 into 2.

also if u can get the 2 ohm fronts, u can do like a USamps 200 and a USamps 400X and get 200 x 2 (front) / 50 x 2 (rear). else its like a 600 for fronts

[MTXMAN]

unfortunately the Diamond Audio Hex component sets only come in 4 ohm's... and their RMS power handling is 20-170w... would the 75w give me the power and clarity that i'm looking for in my fronts and rears or do you think it would be lacking??

[PoweredByDodge]

honestly dude -- its unknown...

its totally dependant on the component set, and i've not got the listening experience with them or the wirign experience with them to tell you the answer.

see you can take a component set like an infinity kappa set... and put say 60 watts on them, and they seem full bodied, rich, and like they're at their full potential... now i hate infinity, but putting that aside, they are doing their full potential around 60 w rms... regardless of what they're rated at.

then you take like the polk DX sets... and i've got 65-ish on my girlfriend's and they're ok... but they can do much much much better with more power. -- have like double the rated RMS on mine and i'm very happy with them... they're at the limits of their physical and electrical capabilities, but they're like ideal for me.

its one of those things you just have to try out -- i have always been of the idea that if you dont know how much power you need for a speaker... get 50 watts more than you think you need. then you're like safe.

if you can find somebody who's got those diamond hex's and has them wired up - and you listen to them and you play around with the dial and see how it goes... then you can make a better decision.

but dude -- if they say 175 -------- and you x them like 100-ish or so... you'll prolly be able to throw like 225 +++++++++ on them. and from your old post about the cop pullin you over for the MM6's, i gather that you do enjoy playing your audio loud... 75 watts isn't loud (waiting to be beaten over the head by people telling me 75 watts is loud -- i know its 'loud' - but its not 175 watts worth of loud).

hell your amps dont have to match... when i see people with all matching amps i sit there and think to myself "what have they had to compromise on to make it all one brand and series of amp ??" even if i wanted to - there's no way i could have all thunder series mtx amps in my truck and be happy... i tried the 6304 bridged to my fronts - didn't like it. i'm just lucky i was able to get the same brand / different series.

you can probably like get a alpine 4 channel and bridge it to your fronts... do like 200 - 225 x 2 or something. and a little alpine one like 50 x 2 for the rears... alpine amps tend to be reasonably sized physically like, and they look really good and sleek and professional and shit. alpine would prolly sound better for highs than USamps anyway - unless you were using one of their tube amps, which aren't even bridgeable i dont think. i mean usamps is a company which prides themselves on two things -- the 1000a/x and the 2000a/x ... that butters their bread... everything else is kind of an after thought or brain fart. like you could say polk made most of their money off sales of EX III equipment last year and that's their main meat stuff --- well usamps is like a very bad example of that -- the 1k and 2k are it for them... that's all their noted for as of late... they had some HC's that are a few model years old that keep popping up, but its the 1k and 2k that you see everywhere... and if you look at the sheets, the 1k and 2k have the absolute best ratings, everything else kinda falls off in to "normal" ratings.

[MTXMAN]

hey guys what do you know about audiobahn amps... they have some pretty impressive specs from what they show on the site... the most impressive is 2400x2@1ohm....

the main one i was looking at though is 250x4... lota power...


let me know what you think...

[MTXMAN]

ok i've been looking around and here are some of the options that i've come up with...

4 ch amps...

Kicker KX800.4
100x4 @4 ohm

Kicker SX900.4
107x4 @4 ohm but with a sweet ass dispaly ;D

for specs on above go to www.kicker.com

Orion 8004
100x4 @4 ohm

for specs on above go to www.orioncaraudio.com

Rockford Fosgate Power 851X
110x4 @4 ohm

for specs on above go to www.rockfordfosgate.com

Soundstream vangogh vg500.4
125x4 @4 ohm

for specs on above go to http://www.soundstream.com/sub/products_amps_vangogh.html

Soundstream Human Reign 4
125x4
looks impressive spec wise and if nothing else go to the site and look at the amp it's a phreak of an amp... I've never in my life seen an amp like this one

for specs on above go to http://www.soundstream.com/sub/products_amps_human.html

Precision Power PCX-4125
125x4 @4 ohm
.... not sure if the thd is supposed to be 02% or if it's supposed to be .02% but it's a pretty big difference that that decimal makes...

for specs on above go to http://www.precisionpower.com/amps/pcx4125.asp

My other option is to go with 2 2ch amps and i've found 2 models so far that would fit...

Alpine MRV-T420
110x2 @4 ohm
not too sure alpine is of the calibre that i want to go with though...

for specs on above go to www.alpine-usa.com

And last but not least 2 US Amps TU-600 Tube amps
150x2 @4 ohm

and of course they are at www.usamps.com

let me know what you guys think of those options...
and feedback on the freaky human reign amp from soundstream sould be interesting ;D

[MTXMAN]

hehehe silly me almost forgot the Planet Audio
Apocalypse AP500.4
MOSFET 4-Channel Power Amplifier
Max Power (2 ohm) : 250w x 4
RMS Power (4 Ohms) : 125w x 4 + 0.04% THD
Bridged Power (4 Ohms) : 500w x 2
Signal-to-Noise Ratio : 102dB
Frequency Response : 20Hz-20kHz
Dimensions: : 21-3/8"L x3"H x 12-1/4"W

[PoweredByDodge]

I like the specs of the Soundstream Human Reign 4... and the looks... FREAKY! i love it! ...lolol... however the van gogh has a slightly better frequency range. 10 to 50k hz versus 10 to 40k hz... anything over 30 is prolly completely unnecessary, but i mean you're stressin quality here... and 40 is stellar... 50 is amazing... i doubt most of the other amps on there are going to have as broad a range... most amps are 20 to 20 k.

the other good thing about soundstream is that they make GIGANTIC amps too... they dont list their slew rates but with a damping factor over 500, one would assume a slew rate of at least 20 or 30 v / us.

all of these would require one amp per sub...

Tarantula ....
http://www.soundstream.com/sub/products_amps_tarantula.html
2000 x 1 at 4 ohms - dude its got 32 BJT's in the output stage... KILLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and its gorgeous lookin -- two of these and one of those Human Reign amps would look amazing.

or even stick w/ the tarantula series and go w/ a TR500.4 at 125 x 4.

i have not looked at dimensions or size but they're big old honkin amps :)


i never though much of kicker... the orion seems fine - i looked into it for another guy in the boards - but 100 x 4 seems a bit weak, hell 125 x 4 seems a shade low but if nobody's offering anytyhing bigger u're stuck. soundstream is a solid company with a good reputation and i wouldn't hesitate to use their product if i had the cash laying around.


audiobahn is horrible. i'll leave that one at that.


i dunno if i posted this before in this thread, but take a peak at this amp...

http://www.lightningaudio.com/2003/products/index.asp?catid=1
Lightning audio Strike Series S2.800.4

it's a "staggered" 4 channel -- it'll do 60 x 2 to one stage and 150 x 2 to the other stage. it can be bridged to do like 240 x 1 and 600 x 1, but i just thought that the 150 x 2 up front and 60 x 2 out back might be what you'd be lookin for and it would be all in one amp. it doesn't have any hard specs on it other than power so you'd have to call lightning for that but its worth a peek at.

[MTXMAN]

about the 2 stage... i want to keep my power equal front and rear since i have identical fronts and rears (Diamond audio hex all around) so i need at least 100-125w to each speaker...

I like the turantula to but there's no way they'd fit... i'm gonna have to put one sub amp mounted to the back of the box and the other mounted to the back of my back seats...

Also what do you think of going with 2 of the higher power US Amps 2ch tube amps??? they'd fit perfectly...

[PoweredByDodge]

the two tube amps would be cool -- just kinda figured u weren't into USamps... so i didn't harp on em.

as far as identical speakers -- that's irrelevant.... are both comp sets up front? if so then ya u want equal power... if one set is in the back however, then you'll only use like half or maybe less of what you use on the front ... otherwise it'll sound all wacked out.

anywho -- more power never hurt anybody -- i'm sure if you found a USamps wholesaler and told him u wanted the 4 amps, he'd cut you some sort of a really good deal...

[MTXMAN]

I like us amps but i think their 4 ch's are a little weak for me...
with the intent on keeping stagerd i could use a TU-600 and a TU-4360 which would give me 150 to my fronts and 75 to my rears... that and i've heard that if you can go with tube amps you should (been told they blow standard amps outa the water)

Not too sure about lightning audio... i've never had a very high opinion of them mainly from the stores that i know of that sell them(low quality shops) I could be wrong about them though...

let me know your opinion on the human reign vs us tube amps...

[PBD]

advantages of human reign -- funky casing, good brand name, prolly a nice amp.

advantages of usamps tube amps -- matches the two 2000x's u'd be getting, will give you 25 watts per channel more up front, and give u the option of chooseing what u wanna do for rear power (more, equal, less, whatever - since u'd have 2 amps) .... and dude -- you could piss on all your friends daily with "I've got tube amps -- you've got shizzle doggy fizzle next to me"...

if you have hte cash, and 150 x 2 up front is enough juice for you - then by all means do the US tubes. i dont really believ ein using the same amp for fronts and rears (ie a 4 channel) in a big high power system... lots of advantages (mostly tuning, options, and what if one channel blows? kinds of things) to havein 2 amps.

have u priced any of this up yet? just curious how much this is settin ya back.

the human reign is a phat lookin amp - but 125 AB versus 150 tube... i mean 125 AB versus 125 tube is clear enough to go with tube.. the extra power just makes it a lock for me... i like soundstream's shit -- whats good is u can prolly if u want pick all SS shit to use -- if not -- the USA stuff is killer too...

me i'd be doin tubes and 2000x's. :)

[MTXMAN]

I'm definately goin with the two tube amps after finding out that the human reign is $2,700... way to much for a 4 ch for me now... their hand built though which is nice and they only make one when it is ordered which means 3-4 weeks delivery time :( ... Well as to pricing, speedsound.com has the best prices i've seen for us amps so i'd be looking at just shy of 3grand before shipping for 2 2000x's a TU600 and a TU4360. which would give me massive power and the stagered fronts and rears that you recomended... since diamond refuses to authorize web dealers i'm forced to go with my local dealer which puts me at about 550 per comp set and 650 for each sub w/ box... so all told i'm looking at about... 5500 with tax shipping etc then i need 1/0 guage power wire and a 4 ch rca (already have the 2 ch and the speakerwire... 12 ga of good quality... 150ft spool for <$40)

the deck is arond 450 (eclipse)

only thing left in planing is to contact us amps and make sure those amps will take a 8v non clipping signal... that could screw me...

[MTXMAN]

btw finally amped my mm6 with an orion i picked up at a pawn shop for 70 bucks... it's 60x4 (only using 2 ch's atm it sounded like shit bridged... lots of bass distortion and mids were realy weak) sounds gorgeous with even that 60x2... orion makes some good amps (it's about 4 or 5 years old too) i'm just waiting till they get something of equal or higher quality with a higher power rating and only 2 ch so i can trade up :D

just something to hold me over till i get the grip for my dream system ;D

[MTXMAN]

hmm.... starting to reconsider the sledge...paired with the T03-4.150 if my car can handle it... i'm getting in touch with them and if i can pull it off i'm goin for it :D the 2000x's prolly have a 150amp draw each since they have a 300a fuse so that's putting me with probably more draw than the sledge right there that and the T03-4.150 has the same peak draw as two tube amps too... and the specs are gorgeous on that amp as well... i dunno still tossing around ideas in my head i guess...

[PoweredByDodge]

they're both class AB amps (the 2kx stereo and the sledge AB mono)

if you run the 2k's at 2000 watts, and run the sledge at 4000 watts (pull the gain back or whatever - as u may not want all 5000+ watts depending on how well the subs take it)...

then the two 2kx's at 2000w should be pulling the same amount of current as the sledge at 4000w.

dont look at the fuses, look at efficiency -- most AB's are 65% or about there.... D's are like 85 or better... anyway -- point is... find out the efficiency rating of the amps -- if the sledge is like more than 5% higher efficiency than you may see less of a current draw - if they're iwthin 5% of each other -- its prolly not gonna make any noticeable diff.

150 x 4 + 4000 = 4600 watts rms

4600 / 0.65 = 7077

7077 / 14.4 = 491

that might be a shade high but even if you account for a little error -- 450+ amps is an assload of current... you're going to have to be PREPARED for the current issue.

if you went w/ class D's for the subs -- it'd be more like... 350 - 390 depending on the amps.

[MTXMAN]

yeah but i'm havin a hard time finding a D amp that will give me 2kw rms with anywhere near decent specs... i'm willing to go with 1 ohm but i'd prefer 4... I'M CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know what i need.... A hell of a lot more money... then i can afford to do what i want to ;D

[PoweredByDodge]

allright fk it then...

get the upgraded alt that does 200 or whatever...

then get a GM 1 wire self exciting 250 amp alt -- cost you like 150 bucks if u hunt ebay hardcore -- 200 if u dont.

have somebody fabricate a bracket for it that'll bolt to your block and jump a belt to it -- all u ahve to do is run a wire from teh casing to your blcok's ground (if the fabbed frame isn't grounded ) and then run the red plug to the battery.. boom thats it-- no regulator.

then u got 450.


estimated cost --- ehh maybe lke 150 - 200 to fab it up and get a belt ... so total maybe 350 - 400.

[MTXMAN]

PBD you are gorgeous. i want to have your children:p JK, thanks a ton though i just need to look for how i can mount it w/o having to put a hole in my hood....

[PoweredBySleep]

lolol.... i'm surprised u didn't think of that already...

i would suggest looking for room near the area of the tensioner pulley... chances are u wont interfere w/ anything by adding it to the line in that area... but certainly unless you're skilled with a welding torch, i'd be having someone who is skilled in such doing the welding.

least its cheap though (overall for what u're getting). :)

[MTXMAN]

their tech guys recomended running the 2 subs at 2 ohms for the SH-1 even after i mentioned adding a second alt...

[PoweredByDodge]

hmm... odd...

did they give u a reason why?

[MTXMAN]

he said that it was underrated and should still be plenty of power...

it'd give slightly higher sq than one ohm but it's only 1500 per sub...

[PoweredByDodge]

if its underrated than keep the gain down --- more power is better.

and slightly better? who cares -- its an AB mono amp that has specs that rival zapco and the like... at "no ohms" it probably sounds better than anything u or i have ever had in our vehicles.

u can always turn u're gains down and turn the notch down on the sub control on teh head unit or whatever... its easy to limit power -- but its damn near impossible to squeeze out a couple hundred extra watts when you realize you underpowered soemthing...

if u have the $$ for the sledge - run it at 1 ohm, and start with the gain at the floor and work your way up till u're happy with it.