I felt I had to comment

[Jstas]

I have been being silent on the MOMO and Polk Audio "bashing" if you will because mainly I haven't had too many chances outside of a store to hear any of the new stuff.

But my personal experience with Polk, aside from the administration of these forums, has been quite pleasant and rewarding.

Polk built thier name with the Monitor series of home speakers for being affordable yet offering amazing sound. Then they went whole-hog on the SDA/SRT systems and really earned some respect in the home audio world and are still highly respected in that sense.

Around the time the SDA/SRT speakers were out, Polk started selling the MM series. The ORIGINAL MM (not MOMO) series which, if I am not mistaken, stood for Mobile Monitor and used the same driver technology from the Monitor series of home speakers but ruggedized for car use. While they weren't power handling monsters, they had finesse in a world of audio thunderers and at the time, they were the only ones that went for sound quality at an affordable price. The first time I ever really heard of Polk was when listning to a set of MM 3 way components in a friend's car. I was so impressed I didn't want to leave the car! I had to find out more! So I researched and found Polk Audio being sold by Crutchfield. I started getting all the info I could about them and ended up making my very first car audio speaker purchase a set of EX 4 inch speakers for my Ranger pickup. Since then, every vehicle I have owned has used at least 1 pair of Polk Audio speakers.

After owning the EX, I saw a much more expensive dB series speaker from Polk Audio. These were along the lines of the MM series but instead of the the Monitor series of speakers, Polk took thier award winning Dynamic Balance (which is what dB really stands for) technology for thier RT series of speakers for the home. RT stands for Reference Theater and the same speakers used in those units are what is used in the SRT-9000 system which uses 35 active Dynamic Balance drivers for the most incredible sound I have ever heard from a speaker aside from the magnetic planar techonology. BTW, SRT stands for Signature Reference Theater and it is what made Polk Audio a player in the market rather than just an also ran.

So these snazzy and very expensive dB speakers were basically the very best Polk had to offer. They were expensive at over 300 bucks for just mid-bass drivers. Yes, Polk Audio did have seperat emid-bass drivers in 4, 5.25 and 6.5 inch sizes if I remember correctly. But given thier performance, the only thing close to them was 3 times as much and came from the likes of Focal or what have you. So at 300 bucks, the Polks were still a bargain.

It now saddens me to see that Polk has abandoned totally it's ability to take what works so well for them in the home theater and adapt it to car audio. The dB/Kenwood eXcelon system in my truck sounds spectacular and I am so very glad I jumped at the chance to own a piece of audio history. So many people compliment me and ask me how they can duplicate the sound. It saddens me to say that it is not very possible because the company that made these speakers no longer makes them.

While I understand the fiscal purposes behind making these kind of decisions, I feel that the berating Polk Audio is taking from people is justified. Polk Audio has been known for making a hell of a product for a hell of a price. That's not so true anymore. With the GNX and GXR lines and the forsaking of the well balanced and cheaply priced EX series, I feel that Polk has stepped down a rung on the ladder. Which is fine because quantity makes profits. Quality makes reputations and with all the reputation you want, if people aren't buying cause they can't afford it then there is no profit.

However, I'd like to see a high-end audio line up like the ORIGINAL dB series come out. Not the Polk/MOMO stuff because, it's just not high end. While I liked the EX series, the MOMO series is what the EX series should have been and I'd leave it as a middle of the road line-up. But I'd like to see an all-business line up of high quality components along the lines of the spirit of the original dB's. I know that if Polk offered something like that, I'd snap it up in an instant! Why? Because unlike the punk kids who run around listening to mind-numbing bass at ear-bleeding levels, I have mature tastes in music and audio and I understand that if I want the quality stuff, I have to be willing to fork over the green stuff and I would, if I felt that the product was deserving.

So Polk Audio, take your chastising well. You earned it. These are not the ramblings of extreme loyalists but rather the experienced voice of the car audio world who knows what Polk Audio is capable of because it's what made us fall in love with Polk Audio to begin with. All we are saying is, what happened man? You used to be so great! Now, you're just...good.

[PoweredByDodge]

... I'd even pay retail and not scalp it off ebay.

[sntnsupermen131]

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
... I'd even pay retail and not scalp it off ebay.
would you REALLY not buy it off ebay?
just wondering
lol
-Cody

[Al@polk]

I'd like to comment on some of the observations made by Jstas and by PBD in other posts. You both have good reasons to be frustrated with Polk. MM and Db were good product that created many devoted fans. The original EX was created to be the entry level product.

About five years ago, it became obvious that prices that most people were willy to pay for car audio were steadily erroding. Also about that time, EX2 was introduced but did not see the success of the original. In an effort to get a share of the meat of the market, Polk created the GXR. We figured that we could give those buying the sub-$80 coaxes would be happy to have a quality alternative.

Then along came MOMO. It was a powerful marketing alliance of companies from two different side of the automotive aftermarket. While the MM's product looked and sounded good, Polk made a mistake in assuming that customers would pay a great deal more for the name and the looks. In fact, they were...just not that much more. Gen2 MOMO came out with better pricing.

Fast forward to today. We've taken a hard look at who we are and where we lost our way. We talked to people from all over the country - customers and installers. manufacturers. We got great advice and some justifiable criticism. We listened. Here's what we concluded.

1) Our customers didn't want us to be a commodity manufacturer. 2) There are many who wished to see the return of the MM and Db lines. 3) Most wanted to see MOMO at mors affordable pricing. 4) Most wanted subs with amtching electronics.

So GXR is going away with no plans to replace it.

We are retiring the "EX" name for now. We have just started shipping the new Db line; however, it will take the place of EX as our entry level product. At EX pricing but with greatly improved performance.

The new step-up will be MOMO coaxes, the MM series, that ship very soon. They will be priced well above Db with performance to justify the difference.

There are now subs and sizes as well as our first line of amps.

Don't worry,we haven't forgotten the high end. The MOMO components will remain the same for a bit longer. (We felt it important to get the other lines right first). From what I've seen your patience should be rewarded with some truly unique products.

Sorry for this long winded reply. I just want you to know that we are working hard to be a company with products you can be proud to own. We strayed for the path but have found our way back. As for the "slams," it's your right and we're big boys. But find some place to hear the new Db, MM, MOMO subs and amps before taking us to task. I hope we haven't let you down.

Al

P.S. Even though I'm the VP of marketing, I'm telling you straight. What you think is important to us. A lot of us have been at Polk for a long time and we still care.

[dorokusai]

Now THAT is some good information! Thanks Al @Polk !

[Jstas]

Al,
Please believe me when I say that I understand the business aspect of all of it. We are all out to make a buck, just like Polk Audio and you have to go with what will bring in the dough. The problem is, Polk Audio is trying to market to a demographic that has no idea who or what Polk Audio is and they don't care.

What has put everyone up in arms is that those of us who know Polk Audio and have supported it loyally, sometimes to the point of fanaticism, have felt let-down, almost betrayed. Why? Because Polk Audio stood for something more than just mass-market appeal. While it is necessary to have a certain level of mass-market appeal, those of us dissappointed in Polk Audio feel that that mass-market appeal should not supercede the smaller market which Polk Audio built it's name on. With the cheaper, more affordable yet lacking in performance designs, those of us who knew we could find quality sound at an affordable price at Polk Audio felt that we got a thumbed nose. The marketing and engineers may say that the top-line stuff is capable but those of us working with it in the real world here can see that this is below par for Polk.

It's funny that you mention the EX lines. It has been my experience that the EX line was a value for your money unmatched by any other speaker manufacturer. You marketed it as an entry level speaker with entry level sound. However, the EX series rivals some of the top-of-the-line product from very many other mass-market companies and for half the price. The only downside to the EX series was power handling. It is that mis-match in opinion that makes Polk so great. Polk hasn't been with the program and has historically been a pack of extreme over-achievers who genuinely care about who is buying thier stuff and what they think about it. That is what has kept me coming back.

Marketing is one thing. You can sell it any way you want. I don't care. I am not a typical buyer just like quite a few others hanging around here. Looks come second. If the performance doesn't match the looks, then I care. I expect performance to exceed looks like Polk Products always have. They look good but sound better. All I want to see is the numbers this equipment puts up. If they are good numbers then my wallet will be emptied to gain ownership of the equipment that posts these numbers. And you know what is so great about that? It's guys like me, PBD and sntnsupermen131 and others who will pay you for your speakers, use them and then give you hundreds of thousands of dollars of free advertising. All just because we like what we have.

I do not think Polk has lost its way. I think Polk Audio has lost its focus and forgotten who they are and what they do so well. They are trying to take a bigger chunk of the market. Problem is, the side of the market you are trying to break into, Polk Audio has no name in. So you threw everything you had into that side of the market and forgot about where your name was built and that is what made people upset. It's like like Michael Schummacher leaving F1 to go and drive a demolition derby! It's like the the guys who built the Great Wall of China wanting to just go and play in the mud! It's like Ducati motorcycles wanting to build Vespa Scooters! It just doesn't make sense and basically tells everyone who knows the quality and effort involved in building the previous stuff that it wasn't all that important and we are much happier dealing with the easy stuff so kindly buzz off. You know what? Think back to when you were a kid and you were trick or treating and you rang the door bell of the nice old lady down the street who always gave out something cool like Mars Bars. She opens the door and you yell trick or treat and she drops something lame into your bag like dental floss. What's your first reaction? "WTF? WOMAN! GIVE ME MAH CANDY!" You feel shafted, slighted and almost like you know she slammed the door and is cackling like a hyena on the otherside. Meanwhile, you have a bag full of "goodies" that are supposed to leave you feeling minty fresh but smell like an old lady's bathroom. What is up with THAT?!

Afterall, the entry level is composed of people who are just like us "know-it-alls" who don't "know-it-all" yet and ask us "veterans" what is good. I will always recommend what I have had the best experience with and defend my choices too. In addition, those who are not aspiring audio geniuses are just looking for good advice on where to best spend thier money. In the past, I have ALWAYS pointed people to Polk Audio with very strong recommendations. They don't always buy but, I can't help that.

So basically, what I am trying to say is, don't forget about us veterans because we remember Polk Audio. We were there in it's beginnings and fledgling days. We supported Polk Audio and we know who and what Polk Audio is. We are your best ally in the market and we do help sell product. Listen to what we are saying because we know what the consumer side looks like. We know what is hot, what is not and what works and what doesn't. It's great that Polk Audio is going for mass appeal. But without supporting your original audio junkie sales base, you are going to lose face quickly because we are the ones who build your reputation because we buy and use your products.

I know that sounds like a threat but it is not a threat. It's the god's honest truth. It may seem to put more power in the consumer's hands than is reality but the truth is, even if it is a bit extreme, we can help you more than any amount of advertising.

It's nice to see responses though and please, don't think you are long winded. People move too fast anymore. They don't take the time to find out stuff, like the whole story. It was nice to get ALL of teh questions and concerns addressed and the questions that were asked have been answered with answers that actually anser the questions asked! It's refreshing and restores my faith that Polk Audio still is POLK AUDIO!

Oh, you haven't seen long-winded yet! If you think that post was long-winded, compared to me, you're a lightweight!

Thanks for the response!

[PoweredByDodge]

ya, you want long winded, go read that load of choad that jstas put up about bandpass boxes *har de har har*

:p

cody - yes, i would pay retail. yes i would buy it from CC / Crutchfield / wherever was an authorized dealer... and i wouldn't care. i'd be happy to -- i paid 249 dollars per pair for DB series 6x9's... and not once during the itme i owned them did i ever regret it. i'd pay 249, 259, hell 269 ... for the same product today. (well i'd be using 6 1/2" midbass drivers instead but if i was stuck using a 6x9 i would pay that gladly for something i knew damn well was going to put out).

i paid almost 900 bucks for two subs, albeit from another MFG, but the point is, i gladly opened the vault for a product i had no doubt would make me happy, would last, and was backed by warranty just in case.

and to Al...

holy cripe -- a VP of marketing... snazzy... nice to know we ruffled a few feathers on the rooster instead of just the hens.

i liked the EX II's -- other than pioneer's old TSA line (which was only good by sheer luck, they're other speakers before / after aren't worth the paper they're made of) the EXII were a premiere starter speaker -- great SQ, can run off deck power, but can still take an amp if you upgrade later... and a nice clean sub that could be sealed / ported / or even (shudder) bandpassed... nice decent all around good stuff at a budget price.

the DX as i said, were the lowest i'd accept for polk's high end line... have made me very happy -- else i wouldn't own so many damn pairs of them -- i am the DX warehouse :) but the DB were smoother on the high frequencies. anywho - that's quibbling on my part.

momo generation two is good -- price is reasonable -- power handling is up! (i know the rating isn't, but 650 would hurt a generation 1 -- it wont hurt a gen 2... yes i tend to beat on stuff).

the components are nice -- but i guess here's the deal.. sound quality wise, the momo line (top momo not the mid momo) is just a hair below the DX -- but the power handling is much better than the DX. I think it would be nice if that mid level momo line had SQ similar to the DX with that medium power level (ballpark 300w rms on the subs) ... and revamp the upper line momo into a new breed of polk -- give it the sound quality of the old DB line and the power handling of the current momo line. is that a tall order? yes -- but u dont have to make a shitload of them -- small production, 400 bucks for a component set -- maybe 425 -- 225 for 10" // 250 for a 12" ...

again, I'd buy that stuff... so would other people.

you'd utterly crush the circuit city competition -- alpine type R's have been killing the current momo due to price -- they sound just about hte same (actually a teeny bit better) and handle the same power (in reality -- they're rated lower, but the actual handling is almost identical at around 600 - 650) -- but they're priced like 30 bucks a sub less if not more -- so the CC guys push the alpine... if the polk sounded better, handled the same power, and came with that 3 year warranty - boom, you've now made up that 30 dollar gap and moreover, you've surpassed the competition by a noticeable length.

I handn't planned on this... i planned to just rag and rag and rag away aimlessly until something earthshattering happened.... but if you're the VP or marketing, and you actually have some say around there, them i'm going to do what you ask -- i'm going to ambush the local CC at some point when these things hit stores... i'm going to try out the new momo coax... i'm gonna try out the new subs on the 81000D (oughta be enough power... cough cough :) ), and i'm gonna test out the 'wanna be' DB coax's... i'll give you my opinion then, honest, straight, and without sarcasm (which is usually difficult for me, but hey)...

if the new DB really are an EX replacement, then way to go -- good starter line... thank god the GNX are dead as a doornail -- Profile: Baja was getting mad that you were jumpin in on their market base.

*twiddles fingers* -- so we shall see.


by the way -- i still wear my red and yellow polk audio t-shirt religiously -- wore it to the 4th of july fireworks tonight -- along with my polk audio keychain lariat hanging off my jeans (thanks micah!) only thing i worried about was one of those 1,000 people there breaking into my truck due to my attire.

my girlfriend is trying to teach her amazon parrot to say "Momo" -- he's gettin there.

and i make it a point to tell people, when they ask "what the hell is that screaming so cleanly out of that truck" that i'm running around 200 watts / channel into polk audio components that were vastly underrated... when they laugh, i turn the volume up higher, and they cease laughing.

we're all polk fans -- we're just pissed, like u said.

all we need is speakers we can stand on - and from previous experience i'm willing to say that in order to metaphorically stand on them (confidence / performance / pride in product), then i think we're gona have to be able to stand on them literally. i've still got that brochure...

keep the faith ...

[Al@polk]

It's embarassing to be a visitor on my own website. My fixed disk died and took my password with it. Justin will have to straighten that out on Monday.

The last thing we want to do is abandon those who took us to the party. You and all the loyal Polk owners are our foundation. I know you do more "advertising" than I could ever afford. Believe me, we're grateful. I am deeply troubled that you worry that we're taking you for granted. It would be our gravest mistake. That you will (and have) cut us some slack when we miss the target with a product, is gratifying. That you tell us about it instead of switching loyalties shows how much you care. But it another thing if you think we've sold out...

I joined Polk over 17 years ago as a graphic designer. Before that I had never worked anywhere for more than two years. (Job hopping is the accepted way to advance in the design/ad business). I expected that my stay with Polk would be similarly short. Wrong!

What intrigued me then (and now) is that the people loved what they were doing. They believed in great audio, they believed in each other, and they believed in Polk. Stereo wasn't meant to be some dry analytical exercise of trying to reproduce some vinyl-captured sound. It was supposed to be fun. Make you happy, make you sad, make you get up and dance! Some of the old timers you know, like Matt Polk and Paul DiComo. Many you don't. Many who worked side by side with Matt and George on the first production line are still there. Most who joined Polk over the years have stayed. They stay because they like the family and share the same goals. I think a lot of owners have stayed with us for the same reasons.

"Great sound at affordable prices." In sure you've heard it before. It's not not just some marketing BS. It was Polk's mission from the first days in that garage/factory. It still is. That Matt is still at work nearly every day speaks to that continuity of vision. He still has to hear, tinker with and bless every new product. How many companies can say that? We continue to believe that "audiophile" sound shouldn't belong only to a diminishing group. That everyone can appreciate better audio when exposed to it. And, if made affordable, a significant portion will buy it.

That brings me to this "new demographic." Yes, we want to ADD them to the Polk family. These kids are over half of the after-market performance industry. When asked what they most want for their ride, guess what the say? An audio system. You're right in observing that many of them don't know audio. And that how it looks in their car is very important. I was there once and you probably were too. Just like wine, you have to try the good stuff before you realize how bad Boone's Farm is.

The new Db and MM lines are flashier. One reason is to appeal to the Sport Compact crowd. There another equally important reason. We found that, when most novices go into the store to buy an audio system, they are overwhelmed by the choices in the sound boards. Wall after wall of round black things and then standing out all alone are the Sony Xplodes (or the likes). Which do they listen to first? Sony. Many will A/B them against other product and choose another brand for its superior sound but the important thing is that Sony gets first crack at most of these customers. Sony is replaced only through a process of disqualification. If all it takes is a "cool" grille, why not Polk? Let Db or MM be the ones that other have to measure up to. Under the "make-up" is still the same Polk product striving for performance and price. It costs us no more to mold a trick plastic grille than to make a black perf. And over 80% of installs are hidden, so the grilles get thown away.

Another thing about the Sport Compact crowd... they are jazzed. They go to shows; they hang at parking lots; they cruise. It's been a long time since I've seen excitement like that at an IASCA event. I've gone to many Hot Import Nite shows and the excitement is palpable, even infectous. I leave wanting to slam my A4! These guys (and girls) are hobbiest and with a little knowledge and exposure could be just a hyped about good audio.

To make a long story short. We are trying to create a market with the teen and college crowd but...we don't think we have to abandon the people who made us. It is my hope that underneath the flashier package you will still find the performance and value you expect from us. It is my hope that there will be a new generation of Polk "fanatics" that can keep us fresh and excited about what audio is meant to be - FUN!

Gotta go for now - holiday picnic. More later.

Keep the faith,
Al

[Vr3 Mx]

Alright, from a Teen's perspective. I would buy the new Momo line.
Why? Because it's cheap! I know it's going to sound somewhat good, maybe not awesome, but it should be good. It's Polk. I own ya'lls home speakers, 200 dollar surrounds! Do they suck? Nope! Do they rule all? Nope! Their good, better than everything i heard in CC. Polk has a performance, it is good. But I believe they need to gain their respect back.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Kinda lost my ID there....

[sntnsupermen131]

I leave for one day and we get an actual Polk guy in here...figures...Al, I want to thank you, you are the FIRST person to come in here and give us a REAL answer...THAT is what will make people want to stay with polk. And I understand wanting to try and please the younger crowd because im sure thats where more than half of your customers come from in car audio at least
and like everyone here has said...make the stuff that appeals to the teen crowd...but dont forget about the people who want the higher end stuff too
I have the second generation momo's...the mm12s and 6 1/2 components...and they sound great...but i wouldnt have paid retail for them...the only reason i did get them was because of a site i found that sold them really cheap...and im very happy with them...the highs could be a little cleaner...but very nice components just the same
when they do come out in stores...i will be there to listen to them...and i will buy the new mm4x6's and im sure ill be pleased with them too...and whoever said this was right...polk combining with momo was a good idea...it brought in some more consumers...but when the price was set that high...i dont think we were paying for just the speakers...but instead we were paying for the decal that said "polk/momo"
but thank you again for giving us some actual insight on things going on in polk...its nice to know that someone is finally answering some questions
-Cody

[TrappedUnder Ice]

Hey...great to hear from Polk.... probably why there are some di-hard reggs on here...right?

I'm going to say ...chew some fat... some of its going to hurt...some of its possitive.... some is reality!

1) I have 2 Polk home systems...SO to me ...Polk has a good reputation...and I love what I hear- IN my home... (this is the positive side)

2) I ran Polk back in the late 80's early 90's- had the mm's and the tear drops... loved those speakers> I was running Polk and Linear Power while everyone else was using RF and Quart!

3) This is the Hurt part- Polk just does not compete in the car Audio market anymore! There are many "better" sounding/performing speakers for the price then what Polk has to offer...and that’s been for a while! Your sub line is not flexible enough - sorry...I hate bandpass enclosures... Polk needs to design their subs to fit vented /ported boxes... and handle some power--- this is the major downfall of the subs (IMO)

Sounds like to me... Polk is trying to change this- I will... as always, give Polk a 2nd listen... I believe they can get back to their roots! AS they did with the LSi line for the home.

4) Right now... Word of mouth is killing Polk car audio sales... I will admit... I very rarely recommend anything in the Polk car audio line... hopefully this will change

Once again... I’m not out to destroy or bad mouth Polk. This is a company I believe that is better then what we have been seeing and have stuck around...where many have left! If POLK comes out with speakers/subs that is worth recommending...they will get my 100% ...and I hope they do...

Anyway... keep up the good all around work with the company! I’ve never been ashamed of my Polk ht/audio speakers...

Thomas (the gray)

:)

[sntnsupermen131]

the more and more i think about it...the more and more i think this has turned into a car audio soap opera...lol...sorry...but this post was getting a little too serious...thought i should brighten things up a little...
-Cody

[Al@polk]

You're right. I didn't mean to spread it so thick. I'll lighten up.

About three weeks ago I picked up the new Blue Man Group album "Complex." I like it alot. As you can imagine it's very dynamic and heavy on percussion. It really cranks in the car and sounds just as good in the house. There's a remake of "White Rabbit" that will grow on you.

If you into reading, I just finished couple of books that impressed me.

One on the Civil War by Jeff Shaara, "Gods and Generals." His father was the late Michael Shaara, who wrote one of the most powerful books on the war that I've ever read - "The Killer Angels" about the three days in Gettysburg that changed the course of the war.

"The Cheese Monkeys" is a quirky novel about a graphic design student and his inspiring but ecclectic (to put it kindly) mentor. It's by Chip Kidd, a reknowned designer.

Cheers,
Al Lite

[PoweredByDodge]

regarind thomas's point that polk does not compete, and/or hasn't in a long time... in the car audio comp scene.


polk audio car speakers, i believe, never were made to be competition grade.


rather, at least in my use, they've come to be the perfect medium between daily driving junk (sony / new pioneer / junk junk junk) and high end Focal / Rainbow / SEAS / or the like competition 3 and 4 way component sets.

i dont want to drop a 3 way into my car.

i dont want to spend 600 / 700 dollars on a component set.

i want a 350 - 400 dollar component set that'll take 150 watts rms power, sound fantastic, be a two way (mid / tweet) for ease of install, but will utterly jaw drop just about everyone that listens to it.

i want it to be durable, true to the music, and i want it to make me happy.

the DB did that.. the DX did that.. and for all i rip on them, the momo components do that too...

that's the niche for polk ...

the id chamaleons are in the same ballpark for use, buit they're a bitch... crossovers fry, fred's rebuilding them faster than he's rebuilding IDmaxes blown by JBL BP 1200.1's (bad amp, not the sub - obliterates the former). while the price is the same, the ease of use is not. at my current stage of "know how" -- i think i can make a set of chamaleons sound amazing, 10 - 20% better than a set of DX components / momo components -- or right on par with a set of DB's... but for the amount of thought involved... i'd rather just get the polk.

however, following the compeition note -- u could compete with chamaleons... but they're not ballsy enough to really win anything... and that's the crux of the matter -- its a big jump from "kick ass daily driver" to "competition".

it would be a shame to see a spekaer company get "lost" in that jump the same way polk kinda got lost in the backwards jump to the kiddy crowd.

there is, and always will be a big ass market for "SQL" -- loud, high power, yet NEARLY comp grade sound quality, at affordable prices with ease of install.

i bet bill gates drives around with a speaker like that -- there's something to be said for simplicity -- but pushing it to its limit so as to get peak performance.

its a balancing game polk once played well... i think they can again.

we'll see.

[Jstas]

Originally posted by Al@polk
You're right. I didn't mean to spread it so thick. I'll lighten up.

One on the Civil War by Jeff Shaara, "Gods and Generals." His father was the late Michael Shaara, who wrote one of the most powerful books on the war that I've ever read - "The Killer Angels" about the three days in Gettysburg that changed the course of the war.

Cheers,
Al Lite

It's not thick at all. It' real discussion. I don't know about the rest but I like being spoken to...well...uh...er...written to! in an intelligent, respectful and mature manner. You have done that Al and I appreciate it because I have picked up more info from you that anyone else that has given us "the facts" yet! You sir, are a true gentleman of fine character and Polk Audio is damn lucky to have a guy like you working for them! That's sincere too.

Secondly, I was going to get the Gods and Generals book but since I only had 25 dollars on me when I went to Barns and Noble, I went and got the book "Jarhead" by Anthony Swofford. It was a simple read really but very compelling because of the subject matter. It's basically the memoirs of a Gulf War veteran who was a sniper. I heard good things about it and wanted to grab it. I heard great things about "Gods and Generals" but just had to get the "Jarhead" book. I'll be getting the book before I get the movie though.

[PoweredByDodge]

i read like 25-30 pages an hour...

i dunno what it is but i'm slow as a snail, and very little to none of it can i retain -- hence, i watch the movies...lol... robert duval was a decent Robert E Lee, but whats his name (martin sheen?) was a better one ("Gettysburg" - movie version of the killer angels i believe).

[Al@polk]

I have a few questions regarding abandonment, betrayal, disappointment, etc. What do you think are the reasons for these feelings?

Is it the product? Is it the reality/perception that subsequent generations are different, not as good, cost less/cost more, missing the target?

Is it the distribution? That Polk is sold in Circuit or other large chains and not exclusively by small independents? Does distribution in the majors by necessity "taint" the brand in your eyes?

Is it the recent initiative to attract the Sport Compact crowd? Can Polk expand its appeal without threatening its loyal base?

Is it that brand is better known than it used to be therefore less "exclusive"?

Is it that you think the culture of Polk itself has changed? Is it that Polk is not a $10 million dollar company any more? Is it that you have to "sell-out" to get large?

Is it that you think Polk is not listening to you? Or that it's not responding to what you're tell us?

Is it all of these things or other things I haven't thought of?

If you were running the company, what would you do to address these issues? What direction would you take the company (car audio in particular)? How would you keep your friends while attempting to grow?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Al

[dorokusai]

Beings this is the forum where the thread started, does your interest extend into the Home Audio arena Al@Polk? Or is that moreso what Micah would do? Micah has been a pleasant voice to read in that forum.

I posted a thread over there for the guys to take a look at the conversation here, which is worth reading, if they don't subscribe.

We would be interested in some one-on-one time in that forum also. Just wondering, this is a great thread either way.

[sntnsupermen131]

I'm sure that it doesn't bother people that polk is trying to appeal to another crowd, that polk is being sold in circuit city and so on. The reason I think people have a sense of betrayal is because polk HAS done better in the past and its getting crappy now. The old DB line sounds better than ANYTHING polk currently carries. The momo line has more power handling, but it does not sound as good. It is the view of virtually everyone, that if you make something great(old db line), then you either make something better or you keep the same line
We all understand polk wants to make money...no crap...who doesnt?...but when you start to make the cheap stuff that appeals to the mass market(sport compact i believe you said) and your "premier" lines that are meant for the people who first started buying polk b/c it was damn good quality for cheap, when those lines start degrading...thats when people feel like polk is saying oo lets forget about the guys who first started buying polk audio and lets fix all our marketing to where we can make the big money by selling crap speakers to stupid teens....thats when people get pissed off...and theres probably a lot out there that feel that polk is not listening to them too
my 2cents
-Cody

[Al@polk]

[i]when you start to make the cheap stuff that appeals to the mass market(sport compact i believe you said) and your "premier" lines that are meant for the people who first started buying polk b/c it was damn good quality for cheap, when those lines start degrading...
-Cody [/B]

There's a big misunderstanding here.

I never said that the new lines (entry or step-up) were created to attract ONLY the Sport Compact crowd. Yes, the looks may be flashier than you would have previously seen from Polk. So what? It doesn't add to the cost.

You are just as important to us as you've always been. The last thing we wnat to do is replace old customers with new. We hope to add new voices. They don't know as much as you but they're eager to learn.

The new Db and MOMO lines stand for the things that bought you to Polk in the first place. I sincerely hope that you will find "damn good quality for cheap" in both new lines.

All I would ask at this point is that you not draw any conclusions before you hear them. After you hear them, let's talk. If you don't like them, I want you to tell me and tell me why. If you do like them, I want you to tell me. Deal?

Al

[Zero]

Al,

Great to see an individual from the company in here and posting from time to time. Perhaps you could convince some of your collueges to join in a few discussions over in the HT boards.

Cheers,

Sean

[Zero]

Gentlemen,

Pardon me while I sift through the thread and attempt to add a few thoughts on the subject matter.

Most of my dealings with Polk and audio in general, have been in the field of home audio. You could say I'm virgin to the ever-changing automotive audio industry. That being said, my comments may seem to come out from "left field".

There seem's to be the looming ora of "what it was then, and what it is/should be now" in regards to the direction of this beloved company. I see Polk shifting its technique as the market itself shifts - key to the survival of any company. I have seen many companies cater to the desires of the masses, usually to the disapproval of the loyalists. A constant that rarely changes in the fast-paced electronic world.

Allow me to address your questions Al,

Is it the product? Is it the reality/perception that subsequent generations are different, not as good, cost less/cost more, missing the target?

Let's take a stab at the generation's. While different demands, availabilities and interest's may shift from generation to generation, I firmly believe that if you can manufactor a core product that is solid, it's performance alone will support itself through a duration of time. At which point, only miniscule additions may need alteration as per market demands in cosmetics, formats and/or placement.

I have heard the Polk Audio car audio electronics, and while I felt they were admirable, nothing "wowed" me. Nothing elevated them above and beyond their respectable competetors. Perhaps it was the gear I was listening to, in the room I was in (vice the car), or perhaps my ears simply are not attunde to car audio. Be it whatever it may, considering many customers are subject to the same first impression, I feel that Polk leaves much room for improvement.

Is it the distribution? That Polk is sold in Circuit or other large chains and not exclusively by small independents? Does distribution in the majors by necessity "taint" the brand in your eyes?

The certain High-fi "snobbish" appeal certainly can often boost your reputation, but most kids who enjoy car audio fall far short of these often self pro-claimed elitests. No problems with the distribution.

Is it the recent initiative to attract the Sport Compact crowd? Can Polk expand its appeal without threatening its loyal base?

It most certainly can. How large is the Polk budget and how deep into the rabbit hole are they willing to take this? A vast variety of products that cater to the different needs and tastes of individuals can be a "fool-proof" approach if executed properly.

Is it that you think the culture of Polk itself has changed? Is it that Polk is not a $10 million dollar company any more? Is it that you have to "sell-out" to get large?

This comment appears to be one formed from both curiousity and frustration alike. The end-product is what concerns most individual's. A solid...great sounding valued system along with excellent customer service is a reciepe Polk discovered long ago. As for "selling out". Lets leave that one for the early 90's shall we? ;)

Is it that you think Polk is not listening to you? Or that it's not responding to what you're tell us?

If you were to ask me if I felt Polk read our suggestions, I would say yes.

If you were to ask me if I felt Polk implemented some of the suggestions, I would say yes.

If you were to ask me if I felt Polk responded or kept those people informed, I would say no.

There is that ever-looming "I wonder" in regards to this company. We cross our fingers, we hope. Hell, we want some new kick ass toys to play with, you can never have enough. As Im sure you understand, it can become quite frustrating being left in the dark.

And finally...

If you were running the company, what would you do to address these issues? What direction would you take the company (car audio in particular)? How would you keep your friends while attempting to grow?

This is a loaded question that could not possibly be answered in one thread alone.

One of the first challenges in my opinion, would be to create three classes in attempt to expand the market base and to give them a variety of tempting choices.

Be it affordble systems for teenagers.
Hard-linder systems for those with bigger pockets
And the no-bars held system for the serious listener/competetor.

I would also consider developing a seperate series. This seperate series would focus on purely one goal. Whether that goal would be quality or quanity, is yet to be determined. It depends on what the demand and statistics show at that time of conception and projected execution.

I would attempt to find what is fitting the mold and attempt to evolutionize it in a way that will catch the attention of any and all on-lookers.. If you want good looks, I would do my best to construct an affordable product that once you saw it, and heard it, you just HAVE to have it. Almost like that young blonde at the beach... Though, a sad truth is, most of us dont come home with her.

Constructing a good looking product is perhaps one of the least challenging tasks given the open archetecture nature of the automotive appeal.

If nothing more, I hope this reply has at least given you an excuse to stay in front of your desk for a little while longer, long enough to escape the rigours of the day.

Do not take any of the above words as that of an attack. This is simply a response to an inqurey, which I hoped to have fed.

For any questions and comments, please contact me at:

coquinino@hotmail.com

Regards,

Sean

[PoweredByDodge]

** cracking knuckles **

and so i do begin to type up a storm...

you asked for it Al...

[[[[[Is it the product? Is it the reality/perception that subsequent generations are different, not as good, cost less/cost more, missing the target? ]]]]]

---> yes and no. i think the downgrade in product is a reflection of company ideals. but that's an opinion. i dont work with you guys, so i can't say that for certain. i think polk decidedly went more toward "flare" -- while you've said this was an attempt to pick up more customers while retaining product quality, i saw/see it less as customer directed and more as "we just wanted a prettier product cuz we thought it was cool". which is fine... pretty's cool... but performance went down the shitcan at the same time. tradeoffs were made... power for SQ in the case of the momo... everything for a goofy lookin cone in the case of the GNX subs. EXIII stayed somewhat akin to its former EXII coutnerpart... that was a semi-refreshing thing.

[[[[[Is it the distribution? That Polk is sold in Circuit or other large chains and not exclusively by small independents? Does distribution in the majors by necessity "taint" the brand in your eyes? ]]]]]

----> i started buying it when it was sold at circuit city. there's nothing wrong with mass marketing / distribution. i'm glad its readily available to newbies and veterans alike.

[[[[[Is it the recent initiative to attract the Sport Compact crowd? Can Polk expand its appeal without threatening its loyal base? ]]]]]]

----> i dont like ricers, but i'd still sell them product and rake in $. it's not the attempt to appeal to other crowds. it's the loss of basic principles. namely, the lack of ability to maintain a certain level of sound quality while increasing power handling, adding cosmetics, etc etc. as i said before - i feel like a broken record on that one.

[[[[ exclusive?? -- sell outs ??]]]]]

---> again, myself, and probably most others, could care less if polk was or wasn't a sell out, as you put it, and exclusiveness is for people who eat oysters and wear high white collars. i prefer to rip off my interior wall panels, board them over with mdf, carpet, and modified panels, and slowly go deaf. 'tis my choice, 'tis my way of life... no oysters allowed. -- i think everyone should have the same access to the equipment as i or anyone else.


[[[[[Is it that you think Polk is not listening to you? Or that it's not responding to what you're tell us? ]]]]]]

---> DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! --- we've got a winner, Rod Roddy, tell em what he's won...

When i switched my inital 4 speakers from DB to DX, i called polk and asked them before hand saying "will there be any differneces?" The answer I received was "absolutely none, the DX are just a bit more sensitive so they can be run off deck power if need be, but other than that, no" -- The reality was a speaker that was similar yet quite different. Tweeter response was much more harsh (dont take harsh as a bad word... its a nice tweeter on the coaxials... but in comparison to the DB its a tad less smooth... not much, but a tad). The lack of giving a crap enough to mention this to me angered me.

WHen I called up Ken Swager (spelling) to ask him about doing a 4 sub setup in my pickup, I mentioned to him that I was very very pleased with my old 2 10" DX subs, but now i wanted 12" instead of 10's, and i wanted 4 of them... I was told that the GNX were a direct replacement for the DX, that they would actually be louder due to an increased sensitivity rating, and that I would notice little to no difference.

... it was at that point I began to lose confidence in the company.

The speakers are no where near the same.

later that month and for a while after, I saw many people posting in these very boards that they had blown their DX subs and as being under warranty, they were not sure about polk stating that they would be receiving GNX's as replacements... I scratched my head and sat there saying "no that can't be.... polk still has a stockpile of DX subs for warranty replacement"

that month I purchased 4 DX 12's from polk for a 125 bucks each. they had more.

i also just bought some more for my girlfriend's car about this spring.

yet they kept giving kids GNX's for DX's... and i sat there boiling inside, as one after another they expressed distaste over the situation.

then Thom your installer came in the forum and posted that he also believed they were a direct replacement and that he heard 4 GNX's do 150 db's in a vented box.

good for your vented box Thom -- I did well over 150 with DX12's in a SEALED enclosure.

but nobody seems to care. it doesn't matter that people drop 159 or 169 bucks on a sub, and then receive as warranty a sub that was going in crutchfield two for one at 149 (hence 75 each). or that it will carry less than half the RMS power, and has a cone that I couldn't sit a stuffed animal on without it bending and going to hell.

then the GXR's were upon us, and i just about threw up my lunch.

I have a friend who used to work at circuit city -- he is to this day, even after he's quit and moved on, the highest seller for car audio in the Western New York area for any CC store...

I had asked him about the new polk stuff when it came out... his response was utter disgust, stating that he wouldn't sell it to his worst enemy and that he was losing money because most of the poeople who bought the new stuff based on teh polk name alone returned it -- and he lost his commission... which wasn't making him happy.

I'm gonna stop ranting...

in short --
1-the product's top line needs to improve, not power wise, simply sound reproduction wise...

also -- momo top line subs ought come in 8/ 10 / 12" sizes with dual 2 and dual 4 ohm coil setups instead of just single 4's. or at least make a single 4 and dual 4. that would also work.

2-the midline ought reflect a quality of at least EXII / EXIII grade, and a reasonable price to boot (which hasn't seemed to be a problem). single 4 ohm coil versions would be all anyone would need... i'm not gonna wire up 8 EXII subs in my car... if i was.... i'd get two 1 ohm stable amps and call it a day.

3-dont bother with a low line... nobody's gonna buy it and keep it, nobody's gonna respect it... and those who do buy it will be like "wow if polk souns this bad i'm not spending my money on their top line stuff" -- which is basically defeating the prupose of having an entry level line.

4-do what you want with cosmetics... pretty, not pretty, i dont care...

5-be more knowledgeable and honest about the product... if a certain model, whether its a repalcement for another or not, is lesser or better or whatever to another line, say it straight. Just be totally straight and honest...

6-shoot for a target niche, find it, and stick with it... dont try to fly up into the clouds where u may not be able to hold altitude, and dont try to swim too low where the ricers will gobble you up... just find what works, and stick with it... develop within it.

7-build another non-resonant casket basket set of components i can wear as shoes and drive 200 watts of power into without any worries at all.

if you think i'm being too harsh -- try me -- send me a set of momo 6x9's ... a set of new db 6x9's ... and a 10" new style (the mid line not the top line) momo sub. i'll give them all a 7 day torture test... and you a full report on each at the end when i send them all back. they'll face the control group of DX 6x9's and a DX10 sub. i figure a 6x9 is usually the best test subject of a coaxial group, and a 10" sub is the best test subject of a 8 - 15" sub group.

i'm always game.

[sntnsupermen131]

Originally posted by Al@polk
There's a big misunderstanding here.

I never said that the new lines (entry or step-up) were created to attract ONLY the Sport Compact crowd. Yes, the looks may be flashier than you would have previously seen from Polk. So what? It doesn't add to the cost.
well you dont have to say it...when i say sport compact...im thinking about every teenager/person that dont really know what theyre doing buying speakers with a decision solely based on these things
1. looks
2. what the guy at best buy/circuit city says
3. power rating
and i really dont care how they look...in fact...i wished my momos were a dull black color and with the polk/momo logo imprinted on it...
why?
1. it has less chance of being stolen
2. people are going to think thats crap when they see it...and when they hear it theyre going to be like holy crap i thought those were radio shack pos's

Originally posted by Al@polk
You are just as important to us as you've always been. The last thing we wnat to do is replace old customers with new. We hope to add new voices. They don't know as much as you but they're eager to learn.
i hope were just as important...

Originally posted by Al@polk
The new Db and MOMO lines stand for the things that bought you to Polk in the first place. I sincerely hope that you will find "damn good quality for cheap" in both new lines.
I hope so...but I really dont know...I'll tell you when i hear them...but this is helpful to polk that people dont think theyre going to be much...they might(and hopefully will) be in for a surprise

Originally posted by Al@polk
All I would ask at this point is that you not draw any conclusions before you hear them. After you hear them, let's talk. If you don't like them, I want you to tell me and tell me why. If you do like them, I want you to tell me. Deal?

Al
deal.
-Cody

[Jstas]

Al,

First off, I want to say this.

POLK AUDIO DOES NOT MAKE CRAP! They never have and I don't think they ever will. There is too much passion at polk to turn out something that truely is disgusting. The fact of the matter is, Polk Audio's crap can still compete with the best from some manufacturers. Simple thought here: If Polk Audio made crap, I would not be here.


Now, business is business. You have to attract new buyers and new market segments. In car audio, I'm considered an old fart and I'm only 25. In home audio, I'm still a kid and eventhough I have more expansive knowledge about it that 90% of the professed experts, I still get treated like a kid. Hence the reason I stick more to car audio. There are no barriers to break aside from the generation gap. So I'm the old guy and I have expensive tastes which have come to me through experience and an ctual engineering background. But I'm not the new guy. The new guy is the 17 year old "Sport/Compact" owner (which I think sport/compact is a contradiction in terms) and they are riding the current fad. I am actually part of the generation that started teh sport compact fad but I have tastes that are mature beyond my years. Why, I'm not sure. Given that, it seems that I am stuck in a blind, change-hating rut. That is not true. The only new buyers are teh young guys so you have to go with what is hot with them. Without that, the product gets stale and it loses its customer base and becomes unprofitable. Why? Because the new guys see Polk Audio as an unattainable holy grail that only rich old guys can afford. We know that is not true. But without entry level products like what Polk Audio has been trying to put out, it will get labeled.

So those new products are needed to keep educating the new buyers so they know what they are dealing with. That helps Polk Audio attract new customers. Attracting new customers grows a business. If the business doesn't grow, it can remain profitable but it is not a lucrative business investment. No financial backing, no way to have funds to stay in business. If you know anything about Silicon Graphics Inc. they are perfect example of being too big for thier britches. I would hate to see Polk Audio go that route. So it's good that Polk Audio is trying to grow the business and expand and personally, I believe that Polk Audio is capable of growing the business yet still remaining as committed to quality as they are now. Infact, I WANT that to happen. It will help drive down the cost of the expensive speakers that I like so that I can afford MORE of them!

So no, Polk Audio is not a sellout. Wanting to make a profit and have a business that does what you love is not being a sellout. No matter what any pissy-pants little kid on the internet thinks. The world runs on money, whether anyone wants to believe it or not. Little crusades to keep mantras and idealologies pure are nice and whimsical but they don't put food on the table and a roof over your head and kids just don't understand that.

Now if Polk Audio showed evidence of dropping quality and going to a cheaper manufacturer and cheaper parts and retained a premium price then I'd yell sellout and you'd never see me buying a Polk Audio product again. That is currently not the case and judging by past business practices, that will not be teh future either and I will remain loyal to Polk Audio because that is what I am looking for.

The abandonment feeling comes from what seems to be the switch of focus from quality sound to quantity sound. The obvious switch, the huge amounts of advertising, the displays at shows and even the project cars shows that Polk Audio is going after the younger crowd. This sits badly with the Polk Audio veteren buyers for several reasons:

Reason 1.) The MOMO line (barring recent releases) does not stack up to the DX line which didn't fully replace the dB line. It was lacking just a tad. The sound quality line seems to be dropping down the ladder a bit. With the push to the "sport/compact" market, it really does look like Polk Audio is "dumbing down" thier lines to appeal to the masses and has forgotten about those of us who share teh same passion and knowledge level about audio as Polk Audio.

Reason 2.) The perception of the "sport/compact" world is that of a bunch of posers. This comes from the performance side of the market which is quite lacking. The "kids" talk about looks more than anything and alot of times, the cars that look fast are anemic, economy cars underneath. With the percieved reduction in quality sound mentioned in reason 1, it seems that the Polk Audio brand is heading that way too. In addition, the severe lack of technical knowledge possesed by even the "tunerz" of import and sport compact vehicles is atrocious. Most of the are subscribing to an image and not the actual act of being "tunerz" or a "hot rodder" and that doesn't sit well with the "hot rodders" or the hardcore audio guys like us. It cheapens the hobby. Also, the typical behavior tends to criminalize the hobbies and make a nuisance of themselves and that does not sit well either. Some, not all but some and a good portion of all is some, are ruining the hobbies for the rest of us. They are giving us techno-geeks a bad name. Hell, I have a factory hjot rod. An SVT Lightning, came from the factory the way it sits now. I get harassed by law-enforcement, called a "ricer" because the truck has clear tailight lenses and my stereo has been labeled as "annoying" by some because of the volume levels it is capable of achieving. Eventhough I do not street race, I do not play the stereo at levels that would be annoying or intrusive to nearby people and I do not subscribe to an image just make myself seem "unique". Again, with the reasons mention in Reason 1, it seems that Polk Audio is supporting if not justifying this abhorent behavior and lifestyle. That plays a big part. It's also part of teh reason why JL Audio gets such a bad rap here. It's all hype and Polk Audio is better than that.

Reason 3.) Goes back to Reason 1 again. The percieved abandonment of sound quality and a higher standard leaves nothing to aspire to. Part of the reason I learned so much about audio was because what I started out with, I thought was really whiz-bang. Then I saw something better and it made me want to know more and strive for something more than just boom-boom which I wasn't into in the first place. I wanted to go for the best I could get. I started out with the EX line and lusted over the dB line. If Polk Audio starts marketing to the kids who want image more than substance then it stands to reason that quality will drop and the name will sell the speakers like it does for JL Audio. None of us want that and we are seeing the beginnings of that happening and we are yelling to get it to stop and tell you guys, that's not the road you want to go down!

Where the speakers are sold makes no difference to me. Circuit City is reputable business. I have issues with thier "technical" staff but as a place to do business, I walk into a Circuit City on a regular basis because they offer choices and that is important. What I don't like seeing is that when I bought my EX speakers there was about 30 authorized Polk Audio dealers in the area. Now there is 1, Circuit City. I don't like that. What I also don't like is that Circuit City does not carry the full-line of anything Polk Audio and that is not good. You are not getting the proper market exposure for people to see you as a one-stop-shop for all your audio needs, home and automotive. That's what you are, play yourself up. That gets into the flashiness and the various lines so I will tell you what I think and what I would do shortly.

As far as the flashy goes, personally, I don't need it. I like having more to it that what meets the eye. Flashy things are nice but form always follows function and sometimes the simplest form is a thing of pure beauty. You can make it flashy but, if you say it is simple to offer any color combo one wants to see, why not have a flashy model and a not so flashy model? Like, the MOMO Carbon series that was mentioned a few months ago. Instead of being bright silver, red and yellow, why not make it a dark gray or black, like carbon and give it the yellow MOMO and Polk Audio logos? Then the MOMO series could retain the flashy.

It said my post was too long so I'll post two messages.

What? I got alot to say!

[Jstas]

Getting at that, I'll tell you want I would do with the car audio side like you asked:

Number one, I'd make a good entry level lin with some inexpensive materials. I'd give them big power handling capabilities because that's what the people who are looking for cheap go for. They want noise and lots of it but I'd give them enough sound quality to be slightly better than the competition and give them a taste or something more than just boom. The GXR line is along those lines but they just don't cut the mustard. They don't handle enough power and they aren't sensitive enough. I've run Pyle speakers that would have put the GXR line to shame. That is saying something and trust me, it's not a good thing. BUT! I like the look of the GXR line. It's clean with some decoration that fits well. It's a good looking speaker albeit a tad cheap looking but I'd expect that from it's price point.

Number two, I'd have a mid-level line. Something along the lines of the EX series. I wouldn't change much about it actually. It is the perfect mid-level line. Maybe more power handling but it offers a good balance between volume and quality. I would expand this line to include a full range of coaxials, mid-bass drivers, seperates and subs for both ported and sealed box and maybe even a "free-air" sub. That way, the entire market would be covered and there would be something more for those who wanted more than boom but didn't want to spend a fortune in search of a sound that they couldn't see the appreciation in. That is where the meat of the market is and where the people who have the bucks to spend are. These are the people who buy your home theaters and then want something better for thier minivan to keep the kids occupied on road trips or for something nice to listen to on that commute to work. So sell the mid-level line as your bread and butter. It'll sell better if you market it as a "more mature" line and get your name out there. At least I believe it will and I'd certainly talk it up because most of the people don't want the MOMO stuff. It's too expensive and way too over the top for them. I hope the new DB line fills that description. It looks like it might, I have to wait and see. I have qualms about the naming it the DB line since I have the same and I don't want to mis-lead people.

Now, finally, the 3rd line would be MOMO. It's fine. But flashy wins competitions, plain jane fits everyday life when you don't want your "shit ganked and ripped-off" parking in downtown Baltimore everyday. SO! I propose two levels of the top end! Number one, MOMO Carbon series. Plain jane, high sound quality, good power handling, clean, inconspicous looks. Good for everyday use, audiophile quality. I'd just go with what worked in the past and ruggedize the home theater technology for the car with heavier cone materials and bigger magnets and layered voice coils to handle the extra power a car stereo would see. Then you would have something along the lines of the original dB which I would go for and love and cherish like I do my current dB speakers! (Sounds sick but it's an exaggeration to get a point across) The second would be either MOMO Comps or just MOMO and make them the flashy, red silver and yellow and given them huge magnets and beefy surrounds and high power handling. Make them audio power houses and go and kick the crap out of Kicker, Rockford Fosgate, MTX and everyone else in the dB Drag lanes! Going this route would allow you to also have something for serious competitors. If you had the MOMOs and the MOMO Carbon and then the MOMO Comps, the MOMO Comps could have replacable driver assemblies, surrounds and voice coils. Serious competition gear to give you one hell of a name in IASCA. You said it's making a comeback so go show the IASCA guys what Polk Audio can do. You start winning there, you'll sell more speakers than you think. Actions speak louder than words. You can say you are great and sell speakers but go and dethrone the current record holder in IASCA competition and people will beat down your door to pay top dollar for your drivers.

I would offer a full line of speakers with bi-ampable coaxs and full range of component speakers with a super tweeter and drivers from 3.5 to 6.5 inches. Those would be for the top of the line MOMO's but not for the serious competitions speakers. I would not even offer coaxs for them. Just serious speakers and all round cones. No ovals.

The amps, I'd offer more options. They seem stout already but I'd get a few more class D amps with at least one capable of 1000+ watts or more in a 2 ohm state. Hifonics can do it, so can you. The AB class amps would be offered in several stereo sizes ranging from 35 watts to 150 watts per channel. They could all be made in the same chassis to reduce cost but had different innards. The 4 channels would be the same with only two or three, maybe four options. AT least one 35w x4 a 60w x 4 and a 100w x 4 channel. The 4th option would be the 60w x 4 or 100w x 4 option with a class D 5th channel of 300+ watts of mono power at 4 ohms. Afterall, the new amps are snazzy but it was odd to me that the only major issue is the disparity between the power production of the amps and the mismatch to the power handling of the speakers. Basically, if I am going to offer amps, I'm going to offer amp choices that could power any line of speakers that I offer. Again, that one stop shop mentality.

that is truely what I would do and it seems that you are heading down that path already. I hope Polk goes that way and I hope that you guys throw together some serious advertising to go with it. I want to see Polk Audio grow because I KNOW that Polk Audio is capable of being one of if not the BEST. They are already a market reference in Home Theater. The LSi line is what a 1500 dollar speaker should sound like, not the sorry excuses we have accepted for the past 3 decades. IMO, Polk Audio sets the standard and I make all other speaker purchases using Polk Audio speakers as my reference. I do it with great confidence too because I know Polk Audio has solid, consistent products and I'd like to keep doing it that way too.

Please excuse my spelling and grammatical mistakes. It's starting to storm here and I want to post before the power dies on me. I'll fix my screw ups later.

[faster100]

take a breath between long winded post, LOL makes it hard to read, and read and read and read :D :D

[Zero]

Ah Jstas,

You never write anymore. Did I loose my sexy appeal? ;)

[PoweredByDodge]

john, what you do in private with your midbass drivers is your own business.

[[[[[[[[[[You said it's making a comeback so go show the IASCA guys what Polk Audio can do. You start winning there, you'll sell more speakers than you think. Actions speak louder than words. You can say you are great and sell speakers but go and dethrone the current record holder in IASCA competition and people will beat down your door to pay top dollar for your drivers. ]]]]]]]]]]

.... good point, polk would sell a LOT Of speakers then. one of the big knocks against current model polk gear is that while it sounds ok quality wise, it cannot, will not, and never will (according to some) hit high SPL levels. While I can sit there and say "I did 143 and change with two DX10's and an 860 watt amp", that tends not to change their minds... if you dont build a 750-1,000 watt rms sub these days, then you'd better be buildling fantastic SQ subs that are just over the top sound wise, else you're gonna get lost in the fray. hence the problem we're all getting back to -- polk has fallen into to the "just like everybody else" thing instead of being unique for its outstanding good shit.

[Al@polk]

Jeez guys. Slow down.

I going to try to muddle through this in an organized fashion (I think) to address all the responses at one time. Clear as mud, right? Here goes.

First...

"Perhaps you could convince some of your collueges (sic) to join in a few discussions over in the HT boards."
Sean

A reasonable request. Currently Micah, Justin and Ken are doing their best to monitor the home audio boards. At one time, Paul was active in addressing many of the posts. Unfortunately, it's one on many jobs I ask each of them to do. And sometimes keeping up with the forums seem so overwhelming. There're so many of you and so few of us!

That being said, I spoke to my guys this morning about being more vigilant. I put on a heavy guilt trip. I reminded them that we set a high standard when we opened these forums so many years ago to give you a place to share experiences and thoughts. And that you deserve our attention. We will try to do better, myself included.

As for getting some attention from me on the home audio side. I'll be there soon.

Al

Now. On to the next post! This will take me some time to compose so go get a beer.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

I know this is the wrong part of the forum to ask/post this, but you seem to be the only one at Polk that is ever on here and actually takes a listen to the customers at the moment that is.
Why did you guys at Polk stop making the RT55i and such? I need to upgrade my RT35i to a bigger speaker, and due to my room I can't get a tower speaker and the biggest bookshelf ya'll have is the RTi38. Which isn't even an improvment over my speaker! Can we see a RT55i type bookshelf speaker in the future? How about in the new line? If ya'll ever come up with another speaker like it I will be in the line to buy a pair.
Just a thought, many want to see it done!

[Zero]

Al,

I by no means wish to further clutter the large list of objectives you are going to cover, however, I would like to discuss something with you that would be best delt with outside of public view.

If you find the time, shoot me off a simple E-mail at:
coquinino@hotmail.com

Thanks.

Regards,

Sean

[Al@polk]

All right gentlemen.

I appeciate your time and considered responses. Let's see if I can address them in one post by summarizing the replies.

I'm hearing that while we're not making "crap," it's nothing to write home about. That the product does not live up to standards set by earlier Polk product.

What can I say? I think I've got the message. Earlier today I took this thread around to the product development group to make sure they were aware of your feelings. I can only hope that the new models will meet you expectations and that you feel they are a step in the right direction. The next group of products are still in development so your opinions can positively influence them.

You seem to be ok with Circuit but would like to see more dealer choices.

So would we. We are actively looking for independents to sell our product. We could use your help. When you get the opportunity, tell your local independent that you'd like to Polk in his store.

You are saying that you are worried that our plans to appeal to the teens will mean that the product will be all "sizzle' and that we will ignore your needs. Further, that the outlaw image of the tuners is not one that is appropriate for Polk.

It is not our wish to trade one market for another. We hope and believe that we can serve you both. We have no intention of creating product that is simply "eye-candy" - they can get that from someone else. As for the outlaw image - we believe that the "Too fast, too furious" image can create lasting damage for both the performance and audio aftermaket. For that reason, Polk has signed as a charter sponsor of RASR (Racers Against Street Racing). This is a program developed by SEMA to promote legal racing at tracks. It has the support of most of the biggest names in professional racing and local goverment. You'll be seeing more about this in the press soon.

Perhaps your most important point is that you want the truth from us.

More than anything you've said, I am most sensitive to this. Whatever you may think of Polk and its product, we strive to be honest and honorable both individually and as a company. This too was discussed earlier today with my group. We will answer your inquiries as honestly as we can. If you ask for a comparison between new and old, you will be told how we think it might perform better, the same or not as strongly. This will start with my group doing A/B testing within the next week on the new Db and MOMO versus older Polk Lines. While we commonly compare the product to the competition we don't always go back several generations to compare it to ourselves. I have asked engineering to set up the comparisons.

I was unaware of the GXR for DX switch. I will look into that.

Finally, I want to thank you for your vision on the progression of future product lines. Some of the things you mentioned were already under consideration. I promise to share your input, observations and ideas with the entire Product Development Group and other decision makers within Polk.

It's uncomfortable to wash your laundry in public. You worry that bringing attention to your shortcomings will outweigh and diminish the things that you do well. But sometimes the discomfort and risk is worth the potential gain. This exchange has been productive and enlightening for Polk and I. Perhaps you got something good from it too.

Al

P.S. I will be travelling for the next several days so I may not be able to check in on the forums. But I will check back in on my return.

[PoweredByDodge]

*Crocodile Hunter (steve irwin) voice* "Cryquie! this bloak's a real ace!"


Al... what can I say... (and i realize u may be off the boards for a while so i dont expect a quick resp).

- printing the thread and slapping it around at the R&D guys
- huddling up with the crew and calling the plays.
- having forward vision!
- suggesting and implementing "butt up against" testing with recent lines.


MY GOD YOU'RE A REAL GANGBUSTER!

dude... i like you. if i was gay, i'd date you.

regarding your comment about airy dirty laundry in public... don't sweat it.

look at it this way... probably say 75% of the people reading these forums are customers who've already bought product ... and to those people, this kind of discussion is actually quite mentally stimulating, interesting, and probably promotes a bit of "good old down home confidence" in the company as a whole (product and staff).

I know it has for me. I mean I was sour dude... sour as sour gets. Right now I'm "tasteless" which is half the way to "sweet", and that's a big step for me at least.

for the first time in a couple of years I'm actually EAGER to go and hear the new polk product...

while I don't intend to buy anything this model year (simply because the high's I've got still have a bit of life left in them), I am eager to see what you have more or less called the starting point of a total turnaround.

I'm more waiting with baited breathe on say next summer's models or whatever comes out next -- if what your'e saying about increased RnD awareness and testing against old product all goes through, I can give nothing but the utmost of hope and drool factor to whatever Polk spawns next... I'll start saving my pennies... well my parents pennies... damn tuition went up this semester!!! In theory I could sell my entire audio system and probably cover just about a year's state tuition, but shall I ? never... what good is life without "phat beats".

Al... I have to metaphorically shake your hand.

You're a down to earth guy... you talk straight... you're laid back... honest... and you care. You're a hell of a dude, and the likes of which Polk and every audio company would be lucky to have.

My sincere appreciation to you for giving a shit... :)

- Vinnie

PS -- regarding cosmetics of grilles to those of us who might want the basic black look -- I've looked heartily at the momo 6" component grilles... if the 6x9 grilles or coax grilles are anything similar... give a light sanding, primer, flat black automotive body grade spray paint, two coats of clear, and you'll have a spiffy lookin, well curved, flat black mean and nasty lookin grille that will spark fear in the hearts of small children :)

[Jstas]

Originally posted by Al@polk
You are saying that you are worried that our plans to appeal to the teens will mean that the product will be all "sizzle' and that we will ignore your needs. Further, that the outlaw image of the tuners is not one that is appropriate for Polk.

It is not our wish to trade one market for another. We hope and believe that we can serve you both. We have no intention of creating product that is simply "eye-candy" - they can get that from someone else. As for the outlaw image - we believe that the "Too fast, too furious" image can create lasting damage for both the performance and audio aftermaket. For that reason, Polk has signed as a charter sponsor of RASR (Racers Against Street Racing). This is a program developed by SEMA to promote legal racing at tracks. It has the support of most of the biggest names in professional racing and local goverment. You'll be seeing more about this in the press soon.



Well first off, I don't think the products of Polk Audio would go to pot. I think that the reputation of Polk Audio would end up being just another "ricer brand" and that is pretty much market death. Hot rodding has been and will be around for years but the cartoonish looking cars of the "ricers" is a fad. It's fleeting, I'm already starting to see it's decline in the gaudy, outlandish looks and more down to earth renditions of performance over looks.

On the idea of lots of sizzle, no substance. I see alot of useless crap marketed to the "tunerz". But for every 9 products I see, 1 or 2 are actually worth something so the stuff is out there. there is no reason Polk Audio can't make things that perform but also appeal cosmetically to the people who want the flash. Infact, I wish more companies across the entire automotive aftermarket would make more substance behind the flash! So kudos to Polk Audio for wanting to accomplish that. All I worry about is the marketing. Don't market to the "tunerz", market for them. If you are running ads in magazines, don't put a flashy, fancy ad from Super Street in Car and Driver too. Build a product that anyone can like or at least find something to like about them and then market it to seperate demographics. If you build a product that perfoms well, it doesn't really matter what it looks like. If it puts up the technical numbers and sticks to or exceeds them, it could look like a Vogon for all I care! (That was an obscure Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference)

Just some ideas about marketing. Well, at least what has worked for me. A perfect example is Crutchfield. For years Bill Crutchfield has relied of word of mouth more than anything. How does that work? He offers plenty of choices in product. Good choices too! Then he backs it up with stellar customer service! Polk Audio already has that formula in place. Just make a few more choices. One gripe I had about the MOMO stuff was that you couldn't get woofers or tweeters seperate. You HAVE to buy a whole set. That is a limit to choices.

Also, another thing that works for Cruthfield is the customer comments in the catalog. Make your ads with customer cars in them. I know there are people out there who would love to have thier car in an ad. Hell, you could even attend an IASCA event and grab someone who is running Polk Audio products in a class and build an ad around thier car. Most people would want either a few dollars for the ad or some sponsorship money or equipment. That would be more advertising. It;s a huge bang for the buck too! Somebody sees the car from the ad and they have to stop and take a look because its "COOL! Look! It's that car from that ad in <insert car magazine here>". Then they start talking to the owner of the vehicle and Polk Audio HAS to get mentioned if they are going to start talking about car audio. Now, if it sounds GREAT, the walk matches the talk, you know? Anyway, the point is, true, honest to goodness real people telling me what they like works 10 times better for me than just some cheesy over-sexed ad in a magazine. Since Polk Audio is about the customer and giving them one hell of a product, find that customer and use them in your ads. Let them speak for you. It's a simple ad with a low budget that has an incredible impact.

[sntnsupermen131]

actually now you can buy the tweeters seperate...i dont think you can buy the drivers seperate though
-Cody

[Josh]

Originally posted by Jstas
Make your ads with customer cars in them. We are currently running an ad campaign with three people that use our stuff (Kathryn Gallagher, T.J. Topper and Kyle Gilbert). It is run in several national magazines such as Car Audio & Electronics, Mobile Entertainment, and Super Street just to name a couple.

[Jstas]

Well, I don't see Polk Audio ads in the magazines I get.

I am usually seen reading:

Hot Rod
Car Craft
Popular Hot Rodding
Car and Driver
Popular Mechanics
Popular Science
Truckin'
SVT Enthusiast (not a real large circulation and no ads)


Where I think you should run a couple ads is in Truckin' for car audio and in Popular Mechanics/Science for the home audio stuff. All 3 magazines have huge circulation. Truckin' has been on an audio equipment kick and even has an entire section devoted to it. The Pop. Sci/Mech. magazines also have large circulation and the people who read those kinds of magazines are technology junkies. Ads in those magazines would probably reach more buyers than the typical audio only related magazines.

Also, adevrtising in those kind of magazines would send the message that Polk Audio isn't just about audio for the snooty audio geek guys. I know the Truckin' magazine would be nice. I'm so tired of seeing Visionik, MTX, Jensen and Sony ads in them.

But then again, you guys could run ads wherever someone will take your money.


Actually, this dude's car would be an excellent ad to run in like Hot Rod!

http://www.polkaudio.com/car/installs/view.php?id=25

You guys should find a customer with a truck with a nice install and use that for an ad too.

[Thom]

The problem is that money runs out at some point. We can only put together so many ads and run them in so many magazines. The Momo co- branded line(s) is most appealing to the "tuner" crowd, or car guys in general. I'm not a truck guy but I'm guessing Momo isn't something you see in a lot of trucks. Therefore a Polk/ Momo ad might not do us a lot of good. In the future when/if we have a Polk Audio ad it would likely stand more of a chance. I always thought our old ads with Matt would have worked for the more mainstream (non- car) mags.

The problem now is that 2 of our 3 lines will be Momo so it'll take a little time to develop a new "best" line.

[Thom]

Originally posted by Jstas
Well, I don't see Polk Audio ads in the magazines I get.

Actually, this dude's car would be an excellent ad to run in like Hot Rod!

http://www.polkaudio.com/car/installs/view.php?id=25

You guys should find a customer with a truck with a nice install and use that for an ad too.


His ad only ran in Mustangs & Fast Fords, I believe. We've also considered trucks on a few occasions but it's never panned out.

[sntnsupermen131]

I have a truck...to bad its a pos...but it has a nice system...
too bad its not in working order as of now...
-Cody

[sntnsupermen131]

Originally posted by Thom
His ad only ran in Mustangs & Fast Fords, I believe. We've also considered trucks on a few occasions but it's never panned out.
not even the harley truck?
i forget whats in it...but if its good then you could run it in...oo i dunno...a motorcylce magazine?
-Cody

[Jstas]

Originally posted by Thom
His ad only ran in Mustangs & Fast Fords, I believe. We've also considered trucks on a few occasions but it's never panned out.

I think his ad can apply to more than just Muscle Mustangs and Fast Ford considering the fact that it is a classic Mustang.

Cody's idea with the Harley Davidson truck is cool too and since its a specialty truck that covers both trucks and motorcycles, it'll do good for trucks or motorcycles.

Now, what would be really cool is if you convince somebody with a fatty '51 Mercury to use Polk Audio stuff in that ride! Talk about impact!

I just thought though that the ad campaign for BFGoodrich and the Comp T/A tire ads was so successful, they branched it off to other lines of BFG tires. You know, the ones where they mounted BFG tires on different cars and trucks and ran the ads in magazines that pertained to each vehicle respectivly. That ad campaign had alot of impact and I have seen posters of those ads hanging in alot of places. BFG is still getting exposure from those ads 3 years after the ad originally ran. I'm not saying to rip off BFG but that was a simple idea that had a huge impact.

[sntnsupermen131]

and wasnt their a viper with momos in it?
that would definetely want to make me buy momos...dodge viper...BAD ASS CAR...very expensive too...yet the momos arent that expensive...so that must mean that they sound damn good...and what?...theyre not totally out of my price league!...cuz you know a guy with a viper would be able to afford any type of audio he wanted...and he went with momos...so i can have momos in my(insert typical daily driving car here) and theyll be just as good as what the guy in the viper has!
typical consumer reaction i would think...
-Cody

[Jstas]

Originally posted by Thom
The problem is that money runs out at some point. We can only put together so many ads and run them in so many magazines. The Momo co- branded line(s) is most appealing to the "tuner" crowd, or car guys in general. I'm not a truck guy but I'm guessing Momo isn't something you see in a lot of trucks. Therefore a Polk/ Momo ad might not do us a lot of good. In the future when/if we have a Polk Audio ad it would likely stand more of a chance. I always thought our old ads with Matt would have worked for the more mainstream (non- car) mags.

The problem now is that 2 of our 3 lines will be Momo so it'll take a little time to develop a new "best" line.

I didn't see this post before the other one.

I understand the money thing. Ads get expensive. I'm not saying to run an ad in every magazine. But if you want to break into new markets, you want exposure in those new markets. Popular magazines from those new markets would be the best place to do it. Maybe you cut back on the number of ads run in the car audio mags where your reputation is established. Provide your kick ass speakers for tests and evaluations. That right there is advertising that won't hit the ad budget in most cases. Take that money you save are put ads in other magazines where you want to get exposure.

[Josh]

The ad campaign was based on the fact that "real" people use our product. All of the people that were used in our ads were not affiliated with Polk and already had our speakers in their cars. Hell, I would've gladly volunteered my car for an ad, but that wasn't the message they were trying to make.

[PoweredByDodge]

whoa whoa whoa -- "u dont see momo's in trucks" --

um...

i own a truck

john owns a truck

cody owns a truck

lots of other people own trucks --

namely - two installers at the local CC who've got them stacked with momo gear (well last time i checked about a year ago... dude ripped out his JL 12's replaced em w/ momo's).

we all run polk.

my old man runs polk in his truck

maybe there's a good point there -- POLK is run in lots of trucks... Momo is run in some, but maybe not as many... sometimes the cosmetics dont appeal to truck guys ... but if the consumer had half a brain they'd realize that the speaker most likely will not even be seen in the door so cosmetics are virtually irrelevant.

anyway - just my two cents.

trucks sell -- SUV's and Pickups are selling like hotcakes these days... and the people dropping 40 grand on a new quad cab usually have full intent on putting audio in said truck. whether its big audio or little audio -- its audio, and with three distinct lines varying in price / power / etc etc... polk has the equipment to market to them and keep em happy in whatever suits their need.

[Jstas]

I have 2 trucks. Both have Polk Audio speakers in them. No MOMO though. I have dB and EX (original series).

My dad has DX 6x8's in his truck (2000 F150 Ext. Cab).

My brother has EX speakers in his 97 Ranger.

I installed EX 5 inch speakers in an 87 Jeep Wrangler.

I am going to be installing Polk MOMO 6.5 inch components and now, maybe an 8 inch MOMO sub in a 2000 Jeep Wrangler.

If a guy I know with a Dodge Caravan is serious, he'll most likely have Polks in that.

A guy at work wants to put Polk Audio speakers in his 2002 Chevy Silverado Ext. Cab.

Another guy wants Polk Audio for his Asstek...I mean Pontiac Aztek.

I also see a few "Customer Installs" on the main site with Polk Audio speakers in SUV's and pickup trucks.



On top of that, pretty much half of all new vehicles sold in this country are trucks. You are cutting out half of your total market in automotive applications by having the attitude that "people in trucks don't want Polk Audio".

Actually, it's kind of insulting. I don't even know how to take it. On one hand, it can be construed as people who own trucks don't appreciate the product. On the other hand it can be construed as people who own trucks aren't good enough for Polk Audio stuff. Or it could totally be turned around and asked of you, what's your problem with people who own trucks? But I will take the higher road and hope that you are not one of the mentality that everyone who drives a truck is a dumb redneck.

Trucks are easy to install audio equipment in and lose a small amount of utility. They also hold a hell of alot more audio stuff and can support more power, in most cases, than most cars. If I were a speaker company, I'd go after the truck market. It's huge! Especially since there are very few rear wheel drive vehicles with V8's anymore. Trucks are turning into the "muscle car" replacement. All those guys who grew up with the muscle cars now are making high 5 to high 6 figure incomes. They can afford this stuff easily and would gladly buy it in most cases if someone TOLD them it was out there!

[Zero]

Agreed with your last post Jstas.

Shoot me off an E-mail when you read this. I have a few things I wish to discuss..

Thanks.

Sean

[Thom]

When I said that I didn't think Momo was big in trucks, I don't mean Polk/ Momo speakers- I'm talking about Momo seats, pedals, etc. I realize that truck sales are huge and SUV sales keep increasing but the Momo thing appeals most to guys with "sporty" cars. Or guys that think their car is sporty. I think if the current ads ran in truck magazines most people would overlook it because it says Polk/ Momo and all the ads are cars (and mostly imports). We would need completely different ads and that's not my department.

[Thom]

Polk as a company has never hated trucks. Have you ever seen the demo vehicles from years ago? Let's see, there was an F- 150, F- 150, F- 150, F- 150, F- 150, F- 150, and a few more F- 150's mixed in there.

[Steve@3dai]

And the Ford Escape, can't forget that one.

[Steve@3dai]

Originally posted by Jstas
On top of that, pretty much half of all new vehicles sold in this country are trucks. You are cutting out half of your total market in automotive applications by having the attitude that "people in trucks don't want Polk Audio".

I don't honestly see other companies going for trucks specificly, but that could be that I don't read the right magazines. I think there's a couple other overall issues at hand:

1. People don't want to spend a bunch of money on stereo equipment (this includes install) that will sound better over their stock stereos. They don't see why with all the road noise, wind noise, etc they should honestly be that worried about car audio.

2. Stock systems are getting better. Most (if not all) vehicles are coming with CD players as standard options. That used to be the reason to upgrade, at least the deck. Aftermarket car audio can't be that profitable, it's the OEM where you make the serious money. You get into a contract with GM or whoever to put Polk into their showroom cars, NOW you're making money.

3. Stereo shops don't appeal to the mass markets. Unfortunately, a lot of stereo shops don't have the greatest image with consumers. They have loud cars all around them constantly (that usually just boom), and a lot of the time just a mom or dad walking in there just wanting a simple speaker change or headunit change doesn't get the service they are used to at other stores. They usually find something to charge extra for and such if they see that they can get away with it.

So I think there's bigger overall issues that need to be addressed. Some can be helped by Polk Audio, some can't.

I also think that the "ricer" fad as some people call it won't die. The people that spend the serious money on their "ricer" cars aren't just gonna go away. They spend the money for show or performance. Show cars and trucks are only a VERY small market, VERY small, and I also do not think that they have that much of an impact on the normal consumer's buying preferences.

Maybe Polk should run an ad that goes towards the normal soccer mom in her SUV, Caravan, or Volvo. "We can make you car sound better, without the boom". Car audio has a tainted name IMO, and it needs to be fixed.

[-justin-]

Hey Thom, don't forget about that F-150 truck.

~JB :D

[sntnsupermen131]

okay polk...this is what you should do...get a 2002/2003 2500hd 4 door sport bed gmc with 4wheel drive and 4 wheel steering...take it muddy...get it so muddy that you cant tell what color the paint is
at the top of the ad put
"YOU THINK THIS IS DIRTY, YOU SHOULD HEAR THE SYSTEM"
picture of truck here with
below
picture of sony xplod speakers
"GO WITH POLK/MOMO, WE'LL CLEAN IT UP"
picture of momos here
-Cody

[Jstas]

Steve,
You are looking at it from a very biased point of view. Trucks are no longer the workhorse only. Since most of them have more room in them than a full-sized family sedan, people are buying them as the family hauler. Those families are purchasing DVD entertainment systems for thier vehicles now too and upgrading stereo equipment to suit. Same thing goes with minivans, SUV's and even full-sized vans. Hell, a guy at work just dropped 8K installing a DVD/audio system into his Mazda Millenia to occupy the kids on a long trip! The market is there, nobody is marketing to it and that is the problem. Since Polk Audio has a good name in home theater, why can't they have a good name is car theater?

As far as you assessment as to why people aren't looking for audio, I think you are dead wrong. Yeah, stock stereos are getting better but, not the base stereo. They are still junk. To get something "better", you have to get a premium package that most people don't want or can't afford. Even then, the stereo can cost 3 grand on the options list and I can put together a stereo that sounds much better than that "premium" stereo for roughly 1/3rd the cost. People don't realize that though because nobody markets to that. Everybody goes after the specialty markets.

As far as trucks go, they are not your typical family car. If you ever get a chance, walk through a SEMA show and look at how much stuff there is to customize trucks. Look at the magazines. Goto a Barnes and Noble, you can read one without buying there. Truckin' Magazine is the largest automotive magazine out there at over 250 pages a month. THAT is a HUGE magazine! People customize trucks. One of the first things to go is the stereo. You know who sells stuff to truck owners? Sony, MTX, Rockford Fosgate, Pioneer, Power Acoustik,and so on. Why? Because they run ads and sell stuff to companies that sell truck accessories. They are in the market, people know who they are. I goto my SVTOA and National Lightning Owners Club events and show people my Polk Audio/Kenwood stereo and I have to clean up the drool from jaws hitting the floor. The one thing they all ask besides how much it cost is WHO IS POLK AUDIO? About the only Mid to High grade company that makes audio equipment that they know of is Rockford Fosgate and they view them as the Holy Grail of car audio because they don't know any better because nobody told them! The truck accessorie business is a multi-billion dollar a year business and audio products are roughly 10-15% of that, according to SEMA. How can anyone ignore a slice of that large of a pie that is that big?

As far as the "ricer" thing being a fad, it is. Sport/Compact Performance or Import performance is not. It has been around since the 40's and 50's when cars like Triumphs, Austin Healeys, MG's, Aston Martin's, Ferrari's, sPa's, Fiat's, Alfa Romeo's and so on were tearing up the streets. The Anime look to these cars that are nothing more than all-show, no-go is the fad part. As soon as this generation hits maturity, they will not be too interested in that stuff anymore. It happens. These fads are based in realistic hobbies like hot rodding. Take a look at Vans, remember them? Truckin' Magazine should have been called Vannin' Magazine! Hell, even Hot Rod got in on the act! Now the only time I see vans is hauling kids or contractors. It's a fad that will pass and the true enthusiasts and tuners (aka: hot rodders) will still be around. So don't get uppity about it. Nobody is accusing anybody of anything.

As far as overall issues, I think I got the big picture. I think you think you have the big picture but it's a bit bigger than you care to believe. I can't give Polk Audio ideas on what to make an ad say. I'm not a marketing guy. I am a gearhead than has been hanging around cars for about 15 years now. I know the industry, I know quite a few people that would serve to impress but I don't like to drop names. I know what works, I know what doesn't. I've seen alot come and go. I've seen alot come and stay. What I am saying is that I am speaking form experience. It may seems biased or skewed but it really isn't. Polk Audio has the right idea going after the Sport Compact crowd. And if you ask me, the "boom-boom" reputation came from the Sport Compact owners. And while the Sport Compact crowd is a big market, the truck market is at least twice as big. That is the truth and anyone who doesn't see merit to that or a profit margin well, they are just blind and in denial.

[Jstas]

Originally posted by Thom
When I said that I didn't think Momo was big in trucks, I don't mean Polk/ Momo speakers- I'm talking about Momo seats, pedals, etc. I realize that truck sales are huge and SUV sales keep increasing but the Momo thing appeals most to guys with "sporty" cars. Or guys that think their car is sporty. I think if the current ads ran in truck magazines most people would overlook it because it says Polk/ Momo and all the ads are cars (and mostly imports). We would need completely different ads and that's not my department.

So don't market the MOMO lines. Market the DB line. And MOMO offers truck wheels, steering wheels, seats, harnesses and hell, damn near everything else that they have will fit a truck. But they don't market to trucks at all so of course no one in trucks knows that MOMO has anything for thier vehicles.

["Polk" Paul DiComo]

We stopped making the RT55 for one simple reason - it did not sell well enough to justify its continued production. It started off fine and enjoyed some sales success but then dropped over time. Why? Well we can only make some educated guesses based on some customer feedback. First of all it wasn't a performance issue - many Forum regulars have or had RT55s and always wrote enthusiastically about them. I had a pair as my main speakers for a few years and loved them. We suspect that their size was an issue. They were a BIG "bookshelf" speaker that couldn't fit on most shelves (vertically which is the best way to use them) so a lot of people put them on stands which negated the floor space-saving appeal of smaller speakers. A really good set of stands run $100 or more and that brought you pretty close to an RT800 (or RT70i now) price. The continued growth of RT800 and more recently RT70 sales seems to support this theory.

For the diehard audio fans who loved the RT55 and for whom the stand cost and placement/floor space issues were of no consequence, we now offer the LSi9. It, like the RT55 has the advantages of the big bookshelf format – better imaging and fewer panel resonance issues than a floor-stander, and boasts way better drivers than the RT55 ever had. I switched to the LSi9 and am thrilled. It does EVERYTHING better than my RT55s. The downsides though are cost and availability. In some areas of the country it is hard to find a dealer with them on display. I would encourage you to seek out a set of LSi9s and give them a look/listen to see if they meet your needs.

http://www.polkaudio.com/home/products.php?category=25&speaker=161

Hey 12V folks. Sorry to distract you from 12V issues, but he asked and I had to answer. OK, go back to thinking 12V thoughts again ;-)

["Polk" Paul DiComo]

The truck and SUV market is HUGE and there is plenty of aftermarket audio gear going into them. Just go to any midwestern or southern city on a summer weekend and the odds or good that there will be a truck or mini-truck show going on with most of the vehicles have some sort of aftermarket ICE. There a re dozens of magazines and web sites dedicated to trucks.

When we were outlining our marketing plans for this year we realized that we could not afford to address both the import sport compact folks AND the truck fans AND the hot rod/American lovers. We saw the biggest opportunity with sport compacts and focused there with a token presence in Muscle Mustang mag. Our hope is that sales will grow, thereby increasing the ad budget and we can reach out to the truck guys too.

We love trucks and know of quite a few top-notch show trucks where the owners chose Polk, so if we do ads with trucks we have plenty of candidates to shoot (photographically). BTW, we have two, count 'em, 2 Escapes.

Paul (Polk Marketing Manager/PR guy)

[Thom]

Uh, Paul, I counted them and I got 3...

:D

["Polk" Paul DiComo]

Uh, right, forgot about the new black one. Duh.

[RuSsMaN]

Not knocking Escape owners out there, but isn't the Escape more of a (use an Elmer Fudd inflection) twuck than a truck ?

["Polk" Paul DiComo]

(read with Ronald Reagan accent) Well Russ, there you go again, confusing me and the American people with facts! Why I was saying to Nancy just the other night that SUVs are built on truck chassis and so are technically trucks. But Nancy said. "Daddy, if they are trucks why do mostly chicks drive them?" And I said, "Mommie, he-man all-American Polk road salespeople drive 'em too so they are too trucks... and also....errr, what was I saying?"

OK enough Reagan bashing - someone brought up SUVs and so I thought I'd mention our 2 or 3 (whatever) Escapes as well as the long line of F150s we built over the years.

[PoweredByDodge]

eh -- escape is an suv -- its a smaller one, but when u think about the fact that the OLD chevy blazer (like 98 - 2001) was virtually the same size or maybe a little smaller, you begin to relize that the escape isn't small -- suv's have just been on steroids last few years.

escape is like the suv equiv of a ranger or s-10... while you're excursion is monstrous.

anywho -- thom's right more or less -- truck owners may not find "MOMO" attractive... they may not even know who momo is... and while momo makes truck stuff... i'll grant you that most people probably didn't even know it.

however... i dont think u'd be marketing momo itself to truck owners... you'd be marketing polk -- u know there are two names in that "Polk-Momo" -- since the ricers like to forget the first one exists, the truck people can forget the 2nd one exists.

i think u get the general idea -- push product specs, features, performance on the truck / suv community -- push the cosmetics, the momo name, etc etc on the rice community.

u guys musta really took a big hit budget wise, either that or magazine ad prices went through the roof -- cuz i used to see like maybe 2 ad's a month in random magazines for polk stuff, whether it was HT or 12V, i haven't seen one now in a while.

dont fret though -- i dont think mag ads make or break anybody's co. -- its word of mouth. when little johnny b. good wants to get his new speakers on his 17th birthday, his buddies are all gonna say "Get this, get that, get whatever" -- and he's gonna buy that stuff... so getting into somebody's car quick and makin em happy is key. note - can't just get in the car if u dont make em happy -- cant make em happy if u dont get in the car... both are essential.

ugh -- i dont wanna do my homework -- i'm killing time... *twiddling fingers*... *whining* i wanna go play with the car, my grandmother hoodwinked the old man and got insurance for it today -- plates tomorrow... life is good :)

[PoweredByDodge]

LMFAO @ Reagan....lolol.

"why i was just tellin nancy..." -- lolol.

best part was i could HEAR the voice as i was reading it... :p

[Steve@3dai]

Originally posted by Jstas
Steve,
You are looking at it from a very biased point of view.

And you aren't? All you've been talking about lately is how Polk has been denying the truck/suv market. I didn't mention any kind of bias in my first statement. Please, before jumping to conclusions read again. I've been in the audio biz for a while, and into cars longer. Please, don't mistake me for some newbie ricer that just wants boom. I know what music is, and I know what it sounds like. I know what cars and trucks can do.

One guy puts a 8k dvd system in his car, wow, that's one person. Now if millions of people but 8k dvd systems in their car, then that's a market. Let's not go into the "I know this one guy...." arguements.

And if you think the "boom boom" came from the sport compact crown, you sir, are quite mistaken. It was the mini-trucks, and low-riders of the 80s that had systems to bust out the new "rap" sound that was progressing into the mainstream.

The normal consumer does not want amps in their car, fancy headunits, and other devices that cause complexity to their driving experience and look like a nice item to steal for thieves. There are people out there working for car companies on their built-in dvd systems to make them as simple and user friendly as possible. A lot of the aftermarket systems have a required learning curve to use, which most people don't want to fool with.

I've been to CES, thanks, I am well aware of what is out there. I am involved with the local car clubs and meet all types of people with trucks, suvs, hot rods, and sport compacts. I'm not a one trick pony.

I was making a general, non-confronting arguement and you attacked me. That's not how you should discuss something.

[Steve@3dai]

And please, stop with the rice generalizations. You are making assumptions that are not correct. A lot of the "rice" out there can embarrass a lot of the "redneck".

What if I renamed the hot rod/truck scene to "rednecks" or "hicks"? I don't think you'd appreciate that.

[RuSsMaN]

Good one Paul!

Rice to me is the 'stickers = horsepower' crowd. (or yellow paint it seems). The 'ricers' in my book are the posers that strap on a Boeing wing, a fart pipe, and a 'powered by' sticker and somehow think they now have a race car.

As far as the 'real' import enthusiasts (ones that actually tune and make perf mods), I think it's cool, and actually reminds me of the stories my dad would tell me about hot-rodding in the 40's and 50's. Lots of similarities, limited budget, modding 'cheap', lightweight (for the time) cars in their garages and backyards on the weekends.

///end de-rail, sorry///

Cheers,
Russ

["Polk" Paul DiComo]

We have cut back on home advertising, partly because magazine readership is way down and partly because with our large market share in home speakers we don't need the marketing muscle there. We still run regular home ads in Sound & Vision and Stereophile. But our ad budget for 12V is WAY up. We are running monthly ads in:
Mobile Entertainment (formerly Car Stereo Review)
Car Audio & Electronics
Super Street
Sport Compact Car
Import Tuner
Euro Tuner
Euro Lowrider
Honda Tuning
Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords
Car Sound & Performance
DialD
And probably a couple of others that I can't remember

PoweredbyDodge is right that ads alone do not sell product our establish a reputation but they are an important part of an overall marketing mix that at least get people to know we exist and take a look/listen to the products. After that the products themselves must earn their own way. No amount of BS will overcome bad products. Oh wait! What am I saying? What about B__e? See, BS IS important. Job security! Yay! Seriously folks, some companies might be able to get away with a 90/10 split of marketing poo poo and product performance but that doesn't seem to work for Polk and our core customers.

In addition to the ads, we are participating in over 70 shows this year, including Truck shows. Something must be working because for the first time ever our 12V website traffic exceeds traffic on the home site. That will undoubtedly change as we get into the fall, but it tells us that more people are taking a close look at Polk 12V products and that's what Al, Micah, Justin and I get paid to do. Yeah, I know, y'all thought we did this for free ;-).

This thread has sure been interesting. Who would have thought that you guys would be so interested in our marketing and ad strategy. I'm getting weepy.

Glad someone appreciates my Ronnie humor. The Republican National Committee has just put me on their hit list. Gulp!

[Jstas]

Originally posted by "Polk" Paul DiComo
The truck and SUV market is HUGE and there is plenty of aftermarket audio gear going into them. Just go to any midwestern or southern city on a summer weekend and the odds or good that there will be a truck or mini-truck show going on with most of the vehicles have some sort of aftermarket ICE. There a re dozens of magazines and web sites dedicated to trucks.

When we were outlining our marketing plans for this year we realized that we could not afford to address both the import sport compact folks AND the truck fans AND the hot rod/American lovers. We saw the biggest opportunity with sport compacts and focused there with a token presence in Muscle Mustang mag. Our hope is that sales will grow, thereby increasing the ad budget and we can reach out to the truck guys too.

We love trucks and