I am going to do it...

[VR3]

I am going to a VMPS Larger Copy with the TC Sounds 12" and 15" with an 18" PR...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=293-658&scqty=1

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=293-662&scqty=1

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=293-684&scqty=1

The box will be 2.25" thick walls - HEAVILY braced with magnet supports on the inside of the cabinet...

Unlike Brian's original design I am going to build it with a BASE to the subwoofer to fire into so the slot port will be perfectly implemented and not dependent on the floor - air tight if you will...

The base will be 1.5-2.25" thick and will have Castors mounted to it

I project the sub will weigh 300-350 pounds of awesome.

I will have two sets of speaker terminals to power each coil set -- basically will need two 1,000 watt amps to properly power it..

Should have usable output down to 11hz....

Brian Cheney is doing this modification already except mine will have a Larger PR capable of handling all the excursions of the active woofers (3.5" per speaker)

It should be intense...

[VR3]

Here is a mock up drawing of the enclosure...

[Conradicles]

That is what I am talking about!!!

[VR3]

I may go out and buy the MDF tomorrow and get started.

It is happening - plain and simple. This will be born...

Going to do 1.5" thick MDF panels with 3/4" Cedar or Oak overlay for the finish --- just do a nice Satin finish....

All corners roundovered 3/4 ---

Base will be 2.25" MDF -- with the edges being cedar or oak -- and the MDF painted black...

The part that form the base will be extremely heavy duty...

This is going to be AWESOME

[zingo]

Epic...

[VR3]

The Enclosure should be around 200 bucks....

The woofs are 770

Amps will be around 400

1370 for AWESOME

[VR3]

How would I measure the amount of Polyfill that is inside the subwoofer? It is alot

[Tony M]

Are you and Nooshinjohn getting into some new substance that I and others need to avoid?..:biggrin:


Sounds like alot of fun for you both and I applaud you both for going to the extremes while you both live and CREATE your dream items.

Bravo!!
:wink:

[VR3]

LOL - I am definitely freaking insane...

But what is even more insane is if you think about it - this is not a lot of money. Infact it is far less money than the Ultra...

I am so pumped on this...

I already have a buyer lined up for my modded VMPS and as soon as it is paid for I can jump on this... I already have a Crown Amp - just have to add one more and build the enclosure and I will be set!

[EndersShadow]

subscribed for sure...

[VR3]

Yep - Since there is virtually no bracing in the VMPS getting measurements for internal volume is a piece of cake -- just exterior dimensions - 2" per side (1" thick walls)

What an easy enclosure to build ahhahhaahha

This is going to be awesome

[danz1906]

LOL - I am definitely freaking insane...

But what is even more insane is if you think about it - this is not a lot of money. Infact it is far less money than the Ultra...

I am so pumped on this...

I already have a buyer lined up for my modded VMPS and as soon as it is paid for I can jump on this... I already have a Crown Amp - just have to add one more and build the enclosure and I will be set!

Good luck-Sounds like an Awesome subwoofer in the making!

[greyford1979]

How would I measure the amount of Polyfill that is inside the subwoofer? It is alot

I think, but I could be wrong, that it is 1 pound per 1 cubic foot of volume. This should be an awesome build, can't wait to see the final product. :biggrin:

[VR3]

I am projecting 10 - I am going to see if someone on VMPS's forum will tell me - otherwise I may put it in a plastic bag and weigh it at work...

Thanks for the encouragement...

I think I am going to install rods on the back of the sub where I can insert weights

[danz1906]

I think I am going to install rods on the back of the sub where I can insert weights

How heavy is this Sub going to be?

[VR3]

350# without weights....

The sub will still move - so If I can insert maybe 2 - 50# weights on the back to balance it out between the drivers it shouldnt move to bad

[treitz3]

I thought of this after we talked Trey.....what about steel plates, maybe 2 or 3 of them enclosed in the base? Or would this be bad for resonance?

[VR3]

I am going to leave a 3/4" gap in the base to put a bunch of sand/lead shot

[danz1906]

350# without weights....

The sub will still move - so If I can insert maybe 2 - 50# weights on the back to balance it out between the drivers it shouldnt move to bad

That will be Solid!


I am going to leave a 3/4" gap in the base to put a bunch of sand/lead shot

At about 500lbs that sub is not going to move a inch. I can't wait to see
that Monster:biggrin:

[VR3]

My bracing concept is very simple - because if I were to do the modern bracing after accommodating all the drivers within the enclosure - the bracing would be non existent after allowing adequate air flow and so forth....

So with the thickness of the enclosure and so forth this should be adequate...

I enlarged the box to compensate for the bracing as well...

Here are the current dimensions of the box -


Larger Rebuild Exterior Interior
Width 29.5 27.5
Height 21 19
Depth 20 18

First Box Shell Dimensions
Width Height
Left Side 19.5 19
Right Side 19.5 19
Front 27.5 19
Back 27.5 19
Top 29 19.5
Bottom 29 19.5

Second Layer Box
Width Height
Left Side 19.5 20.5
Right Side 19.5 20.5
Front 30.5 20.5
Back 30.5 20.5
Top 30.5 21
Bottom 30.5 21

Third Layer Box
Width Height
Left Side 22.5 23.5
Right Side 22.5 23.5
Front 30.5 22
Back 30.5 22
Top 30.5 22.5
Bottom 30.5 22.5

So the sub with no platform will be --

22.5 D x 23.5 H x 32 W

I would guess at that point roughly 250 pounds w/ drivers.

I have not measured out the base/port or the platform yet...

[treitz3]

Are you sure that the PR and the 15 active will fit? Specifically around the magnet?

[VR3]

Yes

The PR is only 8" deep, with the 2.25" thick wall - that leaves about 5.75" in the box (the box is 19" high (interior) -- so that puts the center of the box at 9.5"

So if I mount the 15" on center and the magnet is 7.75" wide -- that puts me at roughly
7.87" of clearance when you combine the interior dimensions with the panel thickness...

So the PR should have 2.5" of clearance under the 15" active

The 15" Active is only 7.8" deep -- and with the 2.25" thick wall that would make it only go in the enclosure approx 5.6 inches

[treitz3]

Ah, good deal. This is going to be a monster.

[VR3]

I am trying to figure out how I am going to build it - I think the best way would honestly be to build it without a top or back at first so I can cut the driver holes and line up the bracing accordingly.... Would make for a cool picture

(Just the initial box of course)

[VR3]

Ok what should I name this thing?

[danz1906]

Ok what should I name this thing?

The Beast!:tongue:

[VR3]

Whatever you guys come up with and I like I will get a plate like this made for the front of the base of the sub...

http://www.miladisplays.com/photometalnmplts/Liz1.jpg

[hoosier21]

have you "designed" this thing in any way? taking interior volume measurements from a sub that uses a 12" and 15" driver with a 15" PR, then using completely different drivers and an 18" PR..... and just hoping it will make 11hz?

seems rather optomistic that it will do what you are wanting it to do, sure it will go boom boom, but without some proper design behind the enclosure, driver and PR, your just guessing your 1400 bucks will give you great bass

call the thing - Supposition

Good luck, I am only asking because I would hate to see you waste the time and money.

Why not ask TS Sounds for a box design using the drivers and PR you have picked out?

Russ

[VR3]

Only reason I am doing this is because Brian Cheney at VMPS is doing it with the same size enclosure and a lesser PR...

He is calling it the OMG series (which is silly)

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=43715

Yep Brian is taking the same sub enclosure with a PR tuned to 11hz with a "high throw"

So I am going to take a 18" PR with adequate throw to match the actives tuned to 11hz in a box made to withstand such woofers.

Brian Cheney is charging 1499.99 for the Larger with both TC Sound woofers and an inadequate PR --

I can for 1350 build a far superior box, with a far superior PR capable of hanging with the active 15" and 12" and have two 1,000 watt power amps driving it for 150 dollars less.

No brainer...

[Outfitter03]

ThunderBalls:biggrin::biggrin:

[VR3]

Brad (Early B) has already upgraded his VMPS 215 with the new TC Sounds woofer and Brian's "BIG BUMP" PR -- he loves it, however he has already blew the surround off the PR...

He is ordering the TC Sounds PR to match his sub, the 15"

So the enclosures will work -- Brian is just skipping alot of corners...

If anything I may keep the 15" PR in the mix instead of the 18"

[hoosier21]

never know why VMPS uses a 12 and a 15 in the same box with a 15 passive.

Why not use dual 15s with the 18" PR for your monster?

[VR3]

I planned to stick with the 12/15 combo because of what you mentioned - garunteed results.

The only reason I planned to use an 18" PR is because I thought I remembered that the PR should be equal to the active drivers - in which case an 18" PR is far more adequate than a 15" and it allows for an additional 2hz lower FR with all the mass...

[VR3]

I just ran some test tones...

And at reference level on tone 16.8hz I could still feel the floor move like a swimming pool with the stock woofers... and the TC Sounds PR that I added...

So if I cant hit those notes with that force with those drivers - the TC Sounds drivers should dig will below 16hz..

[VR3]

Oh yeah I think VMPS uses the 12" because he advertises they work real well at higher octaves (upwards of 220hz) and I think a 15" would have a hard time with that

[Conradicles]

Call it the "Largest" instead of Larger...

[VR3]

Hmm Largest eh..

SID - The Largest

Keep em coming

[VR3]

Or how about "Epic 45" (12+15+18)

[hoosier21]

I planned to stick with the 12/15 combo because of what you mentioned - garunteed results.

I am from Georgia, but "garunteed" is not what I said lol

[edbert]

R.H.S.C.

Red Headed Step Child

I have a feeling you will be beating on it like it is one anyway and it should have a fiery personality!

[thejck]

what are you using for the power amps?

[VR3]

Dual Crown XLS1000 (1,100 watts bridged at 4 ohms)

[treitz3]

Wait a minute......you talked with EarlyB?

[VR3]

Yeah he posts on the Audiocircle forums...

I saw he was one of the first to upgrade his sub and that he blew the PR

I shot him a message to light that PR on fire and get the TC Sounds PR

THE BUILD STARTS TOMORROW!!!

[VR3]

ALRIGHT!

All drivers have been ordered along with 50 ft of gasket tape and a two speaker terminal plate...

I already have some heavy duty insulated binding post I can use...

Hopefully enclosure construction will commence tomorrow!!

[VR3]

Hmmmmm

I decided I am going to build the enclosure out of Birch Plywood instead of MDF - should allow for a far stronger cabinet.... Infact, no MDF anywhere will be used on this

[VR3]

15" and 18" arrived today - 12" is backordered

Hopefully I can start this project next Tuesday weather permitting

[VR3]

Well this kind of sucks - TC Sounds did not include the screws to put the magnet onto the basket hahahha

[ben62670]

It's a two piece woofer?

[VR3]

Yeah they ship the magnet in a separate box than the basket

[SolidSqual]

Hey Trey,

Does VMPS sell consumer direct? Can I call them up and tell them I want a Larger sub with TC Sound woofers?

[VR3]

Yes.

I think he is selling the Larger (passive) for 1499.99 with TC Sounds woofers...

[greyford1979]

Hmmmmm

I decided I am going to build the enclosure out of Birch Plywood instead of MDF - should allow for a far stronger cabinet.... Infact, no MDF anywhere will be used on this

And you don't have to worry about the toxic dust that acompanies working with mdf:tongue: lol

[Face]

You mean Baltic Birch? 13 ply, 18mm.

[VR3]

Unfortunately Baltic Birch is out of my price range.

I think I am going to do MDF in the first layer and plywood on the outside.

I was going to start this today but it was SNOWING today hahah jeeeez

[VR3]

Here is the pic of the 15"

Totally unusable since I do not have those bolts lol

[steveinaz]

"Brown Stain MkI"

[danz1906]

Here is the pic of the 15"

Totally unusable since I do not have those bolts lol

Man, that's a serious looking driver:biggrin:

[SolidSqual]

I spoke to John Casler from VMPS today in an email. He said:


Yes some of the subs are available in what we call the OMG Series.

This includes adding one or more TC SOUNDS drivers and the BIG BUMP Passive Radiator.

While we offer this on the LARGER the best implementation is in the VSS due to is SOLID cabinet.

The VSS stands for VERY SOLID SUB and it has 1.5" walls with a 2" Front Baffle.

While we can also build you an OMG LARGER with a 12" and 15" TC driver set, the VSS will actually perform better due to the weight, strength, and rigidity of the VSS cabinet.

The OMG VSS would look like this:

OMG VSS = $1999

Your price = $1799 plus shipping.

OMG LARGER w/both 12" and 15" TC Woofers = $1449

Your price = $1229 plus shipping

The SUB amp we offer is 1000w and lists for $549.

Your price = $399 plus shipping with sub purchase.

The amp has an input to use the on board Low Pass Filter and Single Band Equalizer if you like, as well, it has an input to By-Pass everything except the gain control, if you are using some other LP Filter. (although I have never heard of a DAC having a X-Over in it???)

Nothing close in SUB AMPS in the price range.

The VSS looks awesome. I think I may go for either one of those or two OMG 215 subs. I am waiting on a price quote and recommendation from VMPS regarding a stereo pair of 215 subs. What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Mike

[VR3]

Mike
Do yourself a favor and opt for them to mod it with a TC Sounds PR.

That "Big Bump" PR is a PIECE OF ****. The Active woofer moves over 3" linear. The PR moves half that. Basic math will tell you that that is a no go.

Nuff said.

But yeah the Larger enclosure is not capable to handle the TC Sounds woofers - hence my project.

But get the PR!!! TRUST ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please note their 1000 watt amp is the Parts Express Dayton...

[VR3]

Also,
I know for a fact the VMPS in its original form (lesser drivers) are extremely musical subs.

I have never heard the TC Sounds. My primary use will be HT which they should rock at.

Just a FWIW. Not to mention for music they would be absolutely overkill

[VR3]

Here is the difference between the stock PR and the TC Sounds

The Stock PR when it reaches its peak (which is easy to do) hits the basket and it sounds like a loud CLICK.

[Face]

Any speaker building book will tell you a PR should be larger than the active driver(s). The only way I can see getting around that is if the PR has much more travel.

[SolidSqual]

Thanks for the info. Trey. I emailed VMPS for an answer as to whether they can make the sub with the TC Sound PR.

[steveinaz]

You're a crazy-man Sid. I hope you have 2x6 framing in that house.

[VR3]

When we reinforce the kitchen floor I was going to put a new column directly under the sub and extensive bracing to that part of the floor :)

[SolidSqual]

Updates from VMPS:


The TC PR has not been tested with the OMG subs, but may be. I'll asked Brian what a TC PR might cost. They are very expensive (msrp $230) Also the TC PR is not a perfect fit for the cabinets, so they have to have some modification.

The Big Bump PR is adequate according to Brian. The problem one customer encountered was with a defective BB PR. There is a conversation on that on AudioCircle currently.

So I'll check with B, to see if he will build you one, and the cost.



Spoke with Brian, and I could add the TC PR in either the VSS or the LARGER for $150 more.

So now we have to decide what SUB(s) and Upgrades you want.

So now I have to decide whether I want a single tricked out VSS or perhaps a stereo pair of 215 subs. What do you guys think?


When we reinforce the kitchen floor I was going to put a new column directly under the sub and extensive bracing to that part of the floor :)

By the way Trey, you are nuts. I can't wait to transform my own home into my own personal masterpiece.

[treitz3]

You're a crazy-man Sid. I hope you have 2x6 framing in that house.Well, we all know that his kitchen cabinets won't shake apart. :biggrin:

Step back fellas. He may have joined this forum as a kid but let me tell you first hand. Many of the seasoned fellas around here could learn a thing or ten from him now. The kid has really evolved. See what you all created? He's a freakin' audio monster now.

Seriously, mad props to Trey. He would make many folks here cry after they heard his rig. I don't care how long you have been here. I speak the truth. Those that are lucky enough to attend the Charlotte gathering are in for a treat.

[VR3]

For music? Stereo subs hands down.

Nothing- nothing beats stereo subs for music... versatility, placement, you name it... not to mention separation.

I would actually recommend the smallest sub Brian has - the one with the 12". His 12" drivers are incredible.

[SolidSqual]

For music? Stereo subs hands down.

Nothing- nothing beats stereo subs for music... versatility, placement, you name it... not to mention separation.

I would actually recommend the smallest sub Brian has - the one with the 12". His 12" drivers are incredible.

Do you think I would still get some good low end kick for HT? I like the tactile feel when watching movies.

[treitz3]

....or perhaps a stereo pair of 215 subs.Stereo. Definitely stereo IMO.

The only drawback I have noticed in music is that while the rest of the sound stage can be spot on in location, the drums seem to be wielded across the entire sound stage. In other words, you can tell that the singer is there, the saxophone player is over there, the background singers are about 10 feet back and to the right and the guitarist is 4' over there to the left and back about 2-3 feet.

BUT, the drummer seems to be across the entire stage....which we know doesn't happen. When is the last time you saw a drum set with one drummer 20-25' wide? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Other than that anal piece of trivial poop, I love the subs in stereo. It adds just that little bit more of listening pleasure to the music....at least to me and my ears.

[VR3]

Tom that is totally because of your room, sorry bud. I totally didnt have that setup in my previous stereo setups..

I think as long as you run a LFE signal to them in addition for HT they will be fine. I would recommend throwing a TC sounds PR in whatever you get with all the weight. (That matches the tuning of the stock PR)

[VR3]

Hey Solid,
Just remembered Brian using a totally different woofer now for the 12" and the 15". He claims they are better but I am unsure.

The old 12" woofer was awesome - it had a beefy magnet, carbon fiber cone and a phase plug design. Great tone and excellent control and sound.

The old 15" woofer was cheap **** that dug deep for HT. Hence why the Larger sub exist.

The 215 is cheaper because it uses that cheap ass 15" in the sub.

The single 12" design is less money due to enclosure size but the actual driver itself it far superior.

The VSS that does not use the TC Sounds drivers uses a real nice Eminence woofer.

All I am getting at - you really have to be careful with Brian because he changes alot of things and his website is NOT current what-so-ever.

[VR3]

Here are some pics...

Slight Modifications to the original plan...

I am doing 4 layers of wood where the drivers mount instead of 3 and 3 everywhere else...

This is just rough put together with finish nails and glue, I am going to add countersunk screws every 6" or so in the next few days and I still have alot of bracing to add on the inside...

[greyford1979]

Looking good so far. I made some progress on my buddy's sub today as well, just not quite as big as you sub lol:tongue: Can't wait to see this thing finished, too bad I can't hear it tho:frown: lol

[VR3]

Thanks man!

I wish I could countersink the woofers but I dont have the tools to do it - so the woofers will be sticking out of the enclosure...

[Face]

You don't have a router?

[greyford1979]

Since my router has been broken, the way I do mine so that they are flush mounted is by adding another baffle and cutout a hole the that is larger than the outside diameter of the woofer. Works well for me so far. Just make sure you that the openings line up, not like i have never made that mistake before lol.

[Face]

That's how I did my first "recessed" woofer too. :D

[VR3]

I have a router I just dont want to buy the jig haha

[Face]

You only need the appropriate rabbeting bit: http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS310&=&q=rabbeting+bit&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

The path you're heading, you should man up and buy a jig already though.

[dorokusai]

No kidding.

[VR3]

I probably will knowing me...

The problem with cutting a hole then using a bit to route it down is the route will be as ugly as the cut...

But I may buy a jig for my 3rd and 4th layer

[VR3]

I ordered a jig today - should be Friday maybe, maybe Monday...

I still have to finish bracing the cabinet and load it up with screws before I move on though

[hoosier21]

I am going to add countersunk screws every 6" or so in the next few days ...

Why?

I have heard of using screws as clamps while te glue drys, but they are removed. Adding them after the glue has set doesn't make sense.

Just my two cents.

[greyford1979]

I ordered a jig today - should be Friday maybe, maybe Monday...

I still have to finish bracing the cabinet and load it up with screws before I move on though

lol...that didn't take much persuasion for you to buy a jig:tongue:

[Face]

Please don't put screws into MDF, you're doing more harm than good. Glue and clamps are all you need. If you still feel you need more, use a biscuit joiner or brad nails.

[FTGV]

Am I seeing soft wood (pine,spruce)2x4's used for the bracing?

[VR3]

I want to use screws? I dont see any reason not too - They will be pre=drilled and countersunk and will not be any part of the final finish what-so-ever...

I did use 1x3 Pine for bracing - I plan to apply a sound deadner to the bracing (like dynamat).... but I wanted to use solid wood. I did not want to use MDF

[megasat16]

IMO, Wood Glue and Clamp is the way to go. When the glue dried, it's stronger than nails and screws. Bracing is best done with cut off MDF sheets or plywood sheets glued up together too. It's strong, adds weight (good for sub enclosure) and cheap cheap cheap. One reason soft wood shouldn't be used is that it'll check as it dried up inside the cabinet and the wood density is not uniform across the length.

[VR3]

I get what you guys are saying. When I built my old enclosures I used clamps and while I do have clamps I dont have anywhere to put the sub while it is clamped like I use to. My Mom has a garage and I had all the schools too. Now I have basic, cheap tools and no garage or anything. Infact I assembled this subwoofer in 30 degree weather! lol

I put it together with glue and brad nails at first.. so I do feel the need to use screws in addition

[Face]

If you used the proper amount of glue, no screws are needed.

[TrashyTrucker]

I have wondered about building a sub as well guys!

But have never got past these questions:
1) amp...plate or what?
2) xo?

just curious... did not mean to HJ this thread. Great read Vr3mxstyler2k3.

[VR3]

Pretty much any subwoofer needs an amp with a crossover...

Most plate amps have a built in crossover.

If you use an external amp you either need a crossover or just use your receiver's LFE crossover.

[FTGV]

Bracing is best done with cut off MDF sheets or plywood sheets glued up together too..... One reason soft wood shouldn't be used is that it'll check as it dried up inside the cabinet and the wood density is not uniform across the length.Agreed James,MDF would would be preferable to soft wood and 13 ply Baltic Birch would be even better as the multi layer void free plys resist flexure in all directions and is dimenionally stable.

I use both screws and clamps with my MDF boxes.As shown in the pics I use dados to ease assembly and use the screws when I can't properly clamp a panel.I drill pilot holes and use drywall screws to pull the joint tight until the glue has dried.Afterward I remove the screws and fill the void with plastic wood.Works like a charm.

[VR3]

Yeah - I am using very limited tools...

But since I am multi layering wood -- this will be a piece of cake and I can secure the last layer from the inside so nothing will be visible...

[VR3]

I received the bolts to put the woofer together today - absolute insanity my friends...

This woofer is LARGE.

I cant imagine a 12 and a 15 with a 18 PR all moving together with 2000 watts. It should be fierce

[greyford1979]

Any new progress on the sub?

[VR3]

lol - I wish it would progress as fast as yours - but with it getting dark at 5 oclock and working 55-60 hours a week I dont have much time :(

[greyford1979]

lol - I wish it would progress as fast as yours - but with it getting dark at 5 oclock and working 55-60 hours a week I dont have much time :(

Damn that sucks! Yeah I have been working long hours as well and working on the sub pretty much till right before I went to sleep. My gf is real happy it's pretty much done. Too bad you don't have a garage to work on it in:frown: Still looking forward to seeing this beast of yours finished tho:biggrin:

[VR3]

Thanks man your sub looks sweet - I hope my final product looks that good.

My jig will be here mid week - its really all down hill from now since the box is formed. Now it is a matter of adding layers - apply the solid wood, then build the base then the platform...

I guess it will take me a month or so to build this monster

[greyford1979]

Thanks! It's gonna be tough to hand it over to my buddy:frown: Once your sub is done tho, it's gonna be worth all the time you put into it, that's for sure:biggrin:

[VR3]

Made a little bit of progress on this today - I attached a second layer to the sides and top and sanded the whole thing down to get some glue off....

As soon as my jig gets here (2 days) I will be able to do some more with this as the next few pieces I am going to precut the holes before I attach them so I can make sure each layer matches up...

Either way - I think the final thickness of the enclosure walls will be 3" all over - MDF is just to fragile as far as chipping compared to the plywood - so yeah. Definitely think I am going to put a layer of plywood over the entire box then solid wood over that.

[greyford1979]

Awesome! Just be glad you don't live where I do right now or you would never make any progress on it outside right now lol. So then you're going with the birch plywood as the final layer? And are you going with black as the color?

[VR3]

the third layer will be plywood - so probably will just be basic birch or oak plywood -- then take some solid wood that is preglued together to get the width I neeed and finish it out that way -- roundover the edges then stain it to my desired color and clear it

[greyford1979]

Oh ok...I know it will look great! Will be looking forward to seeing it finished, and hearing how crazy ridiculous it sounds lol.

[VR3]

Does anyone have any decent software for modeling two different active woofers and a PR?

Im just curious what I am going to end up with here.. lol

[greyford1979]

Does WinISD allow you to model this? Or can you only model it with just one active woofer in WinISD?

[VR3]

Just one and I would need someone to show me how to use that monstrosity of a program

[VR3]

With two 15's and the 18" PR - with 2000 watts of power it says I will be able to do 20hz at 113 db?

What a confusing program

[Face]

This may do it: http://audio.claub.net/software/kougaard/ubmodel.html

[Sherardp]

Nice project Sid, this looks intense and should turn out indeed awesome.

[VR3]

Thanks!

I downloaded Unibox and the problem remains - how do you model two drivers in the same enclosure at one time? This is silly that someone has not thought of this.

[VR3]

I compromised --

I modeled the 12" drivers with the 12" PR at full mass - with 1 signal watt - 80hz is 82db, 50hz is 82db, 30hz is 78.6, 20hz is 75db (No usable range below 20hz) - the box is 2 cu ft

I modeled the 15" driver with the 15" PR at full mass - with 1 signal watt - 80hz is 85db, 50hz is 86db, 30hz is 82db, 20hz is 79db, 16hz is 75db - the box is 4.5 cu ft - so it is a combined 1 cu ft bigger than my box

My box is a little different as the PR will technically be slot ported. So it may in essence have a lower response? Not sure...

Either way - based on these results and maybe a little eqing with something like the SMS 1 I may have a stellar subwoofer

This is almost identical to the SVS Ultra - in the 10hz ported configuration

[treitz3]

So, did you want to borrow the SMS-1 when this project is complete?

{EDIT:} Nevermind, I'll call you....

[FTGV]

Thanks!

I downloaded Unibox and the problem remains - how do you model two drivers in the same enclosure at one time? This is silly that someone has not thought of this.

You can in WinISD and I would expect you could Unibox aswell.

[VR3]

Today has been very productive so far ---

Picked up a plunge router... already attached a second layer of MDF to the bottom and the back - now going to attach a layer to front and cut those two holes ohhhh yeah!

Pics to follow!

[VR3]

Pics!

[danz1906]

Looking Good!!!

[VR3]

Thanks man!

I trying to think of ways I can integrate the base in it a little differently than Brian did...

Decisions decisions

[greyford1979]

Looking good so far man! Bet it's getting tougher to lug that thing around lol.

[VR3]

hehe - pretty much decided when I buy the plywood I am also going to invest in a little set of hand trucks -- as the weight of this thing ALREADY is insane

[PolkMaster1]

Looking good. When are you going to be finished with my... :biggrin: i mean, your sub? :cool:

Very impressive! I cant wait to hear the results.

[VR3]

thanks!

Honestly I do not know - pretty much at this point I am letting the weather decide, cold and wet = working on the house, warmer and dry = working on sub...

At this rate, armed with my router --- I would guess I can be done in 2 months

[PolkMaster1]

2 months - thats like another season!!! :biggrin: Can we wait that long to hear the results?

For those that are interested in taking on this project, it would be cool if you could put together a parts list needed. Just a suggestion though.

Have you thought of the finish you plan to put on this sub?

[VR3]

I am thinking of finishing it with just a satin pine (light finish) with dark wood (wenge) side panels...

And misc areas like on the bottom and such will be painted black... but that is still racking around inside my brain

Parts like is pretty simple...

12" TC woofer, 15" tc woofer, 18" tc pr - terminal cup (two sets needed)

Two 1,000-1,500 watt amplifier (one for each woofer)

A **** ton of wood and patience

[PolkMaster1]

Give it a 70s throwback look - two tone color!!! Remember those cars having a two toner on them?

[VR3]

hehe - I was trying to think of a way to make it not look like a big ass box...

I was thinking of making it a vertical design like the tall boy with a side firing PR that fires into a slot port - should work the same... decisions decisions

[PolkMaster1]

hehe - I was trying to think of a way to make it not look like a big ass box...

I was thinking of making it a vertical design like the tall boy with a side firing PR that fires into a slot port - should work the same... decisions decisions

Thats pretty hard to do when your sub is on steriods. :biggrin:

[VR3]

lol -- yeah the more I think about it I think making it vertical with a side firing PR would be down right beastly --- and much easier to build...

[PolkMaster1]

I say that anyone interested in this post should invite themselves to VR3s house for a listen upon completion of the project. Is there an "ooh and ahh" factor in the specification sheet?

[EndersShadow]

I say that anyone interested in this post should invite themselves to VR3s house for a listen upon completion of the project. Is there an "ooh and ahh" factor in the specification sheet?

More like a "Crap your pants" spec....:biggrin:

[greyford1979]

I wonder how your neighbors are gonna feel about this sub once its finished lol:eek:

[VR3]

It should be -6db 20 hz, -10db to 16hz --- without room gain or the slot port.

With the slot port reinforcing the PR it should be -3db 20hz, -7db 16hz -- and Room gain should make it roughly flat at 20, -3/4db at 16hz and capable of usable 10hz...

But with 2,000 continuous watts it should be able to crank out 120-130db at 50hz ;)

[treitz3]

How is that compared to the setup you had running with the VMPS?

[VR3]

The VMPS only handles 750 watts... so not sure as far as numbers

This sub will have a power handling of 2,000 continuous and 8,000 peak...

So from a power standpoint alone it should be huge.

Not to mention a xmax of 3.5" vs. 1-1.5" --

Power and throw is way larger. I could essentially EQ this subwoofer anyway I want and throw as much power as I want to it without consequence...

It should be able to fill up a large room, small room, medium room - whatever really

[VR3]

Here is my current thought process...

Obviously this is not proportioned correctly ;)

[Face]

Why does it look slot loaded?

[VR3]

Because it is ---

VMPS slot loads their PR, but they use the floor as the base

http://vmpsaudio.com/pics/sublarg.jpg

[Face]

FYI, that's going to affect your tuning.

[VR3]

I know - this is pretty much an exact rebuild Mike...

Brian uses these two drivers in the same box, with that slot port with a PR tuned to 11hz

These results are excellent...

See page #1

[VR3]

Gents we just fired this up in its rough MDF form - no slot port on the PR...

ran some quick sweeps - EASY below 15hz extension and just wow - we are only running 800 per speaker (only a 1/4 of the power needed) and the amp was peaking at points and the sub was hardly working...

The sub is a success and now I am pumped back up to build it - I was worried it was going to flop but jesus h christ. Intense is an understatement

I have experienced a PC Ultra from SVS (The older one) and it has nothing on this. WOW

[VR3]

Heres some pics

[PolkMaster1]

Gents we just fired this up in its rough MDF form - no slot port on the PR...

ran some quick sweeps - EASY below 15hz extension and just wow - we are only running 800 per speaker (only a 1/4 of the power needed) and the amp was peaking at points and the sub was hardly working...

The sub is a success and now I am pumped back up to build it - I was worried it was going to flop but jesus h christ. Intense is an understatement

I have experienced a PC Ultra from SVS (The older one) and it has nothing on this. WOW

You need to compare it to the PC Ultra/2 from SVS and let us know your results!!!

I cant wait to hear what your final results are!!!

[PolkMaster1]

Those pics are impressive!!! Will the sub be able to power up from a single power outlet, or is it one of those beasts that need two seperate outlets on different electrical circuits?

What binding posts did you use?

[VR3]

This was just a mock up - we used the post from the Taylo Reference II

and the final product will use two 1500 watt amps on a dedicated 20 amp circuit

[VR3]

Also the final product will use aluminum plate with insulated binding post

[VR3]

Another pic

[Face]

Also the final product will use aluminum plate with insulated binding post

I would use a recessed speakon jack.

[VR3]

Why is that?

[Face]

I just noticed your place is already recessed, so it's a little late.

I'm starting to like Speakon plugs for their convenience. No chance of reversed polarity, sturdiness, only a small amount of mass added to the signal chain, etc...

Regardless, very cool build!

[VR3]

Nope - everything is still open for change.

I have two more layers of wood to do and a larger plate

[EndersShadow]

I might have missed it, but anything happening here....

Thinking long term about building one or two of these bad boys maybe to get some good bass....

[VR3]

It is on the back burner....

Just to much other stuff came up and I really want to finish my house before I drop the $$$ on the amps - so yeah.. May be another 5 months or so before this gets completed!

Stay tuned!

4hz in room - with authority though even in the rough stages!

[Conradicles]

4hz in room - with authority though even in the rough stages!

That is insane! :cool:

[EndersShadow]

Good to know. Specially since I have carpenters as uncles so I can "borrow" their skills to make a really really nice cabinet....provided I get spec's and drawings of some sort for them to work off :smile:

[VR3]

I provided all the dimensions to make this on page one (FWIW)

The only thing I can not stress!

You will need the cabinet to be 3" thick - no bones about it. Mine is currently 1.5" thick and about 200 pounds and at half power the cabinet was getting thrown around like a rag doll. I had Russ sit on it to keep it in place.

Everytime it would dip below 20 hz the entire top half of the enclosure would start swaying

[EndersShadow]

You will need the cabinet to be 3" thick - no bones about it. Mine is currently 1.5" thick and about 200 pounds and at half power the cabinet was getting thrown around like a rag doll. I had Russ sit on it to keep it in place.

Everytime it would dip below 20 hz the entire top half of the enclosure would start swaying

That makes me happy :biggrin:...but I will need a truck and an industrial dolly for sure to transport it lol....

[VR3]

I plan to install wheels on the back of the unit so I can lean it back and just roll it. My concern is it would indent the floor as it rolled.

I think the best bet would be to get a hand truck that can move a fridge and strap it in...

Tell ya what though - we ran 800 per driver (not even close to what it could handle) and I had to excuse myself from the room.

[EndersShadow]

I think the best bet would be to get a hand truck that can move a fridge and strap it in...

Thats prob what I would do...


Tell ya what though - we ran 800 per driver (not even close to what it could handle) and I had to excuse myself from the room.

So you would need an amp per driver then I take it and split the LFE signal with a y adaptor?

[VR3]

I was planning to use a Crown XLS2000 per driver (bridged)

It has a through output to go to another amp. Perfect.

You could get an amp stable to 2 ohms and bridge it. But a pair of XLS2000 will bring more power and they only weigh 18 pounds combined...

[bsoko2]

Any update?

[VR3]

I probably wont finish this till the end of the year...

I have heard this sub at 1/4 power and it hits 4hz solid in my room running sweeps