AVR Feedback

[mr_concrete_1]

I am a newbie to Polkville and was looking for some feedback. I am trying to improve my HT by upgrading my speakers and I was wondering what some of you might think about my AVR. It is a Sony STR-DG600, its a few years old but has done pretty good for me. I am doing 5.1 with it with my fronts M50's, my center a scs250 and still trying to figure out my surrounds. Do you think this group will work or is the AVR a weak point?

[jayman_1975]

You can do much better for your speakers by purchasing a new avr. At a whopping 17lbs i can't see how it's delivering much for clean power to your Monitor 50's. They are capable of much more than they are delivering with the receiver you are using now.

[mr_concrete_1]

Please explain the 17lbs reference.

[AudioGenics]

Set up your system
and use several different sources ( favorites )
make sure you take your listening environment into consideration
such as placement of your speakers and locating that sweet spot

then go out to friends and neighbors and business to compare

Plenty of areas to upgrade as you get more into it.

[anonymouse]

Please explain the 17lbs reference.

The specifications of your receiver list the weight at 17lbs. In traditional receivers, weight is a good proxy for quality. The higher the weight, the higher the quality. Why?

One of the most important components in a good amplifier or receiver is its power supply. And the heart of a power supply is its power transformer. Now the only way to make a higher capacity power transformer is to add more windings and metal, which equates to more weight. Literally, if you look at some of the most powerful traditional amplifiers, they have large transformers weighing 50lbs or more alone.

This costs more money - more copper, more iron, and more shipping costs. So what receiver manufacturers do is cheat. Your amp is listed at 110W x 7, but notice that it does not say "all channels driven". In practice, your amp may only be capable of driving one channel at 110W at one time. If all 7 channels are driven together it may only deliver 15W or so into each. That's dishonest I agree, but not unlawful, and pretty commonplace to make the masses feel good about their purchase.

There is one exception to this weight rule - digital amps, or class D amps. These amps have a completely different technology for their power stages. They use a "switching power supply" where the mains power is switched to a much higher frequency prior to going through a transformer, and transformers are much more efficient at higher frequencies, so they can be much smaller. There is a raging debate about whether digital amps sound as good as analog amps, but I will not get into that.

Unfortunately, from this thread http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?topic=24206&forum=51, it appears that your receiver is an analog receiver, which means unfortunately that its amp section is really wimpy. So unfortunately, I have to agree that your speakers will in all likelihood sound a lot better with a better quality receiver. You might have been able to add an external amp but your receiver does not appear to have multi channel preamp outputs either. So your only option is a full upgrade. There are many threads on here with advice on which receivers to buy. Search and you will find. Hope this helps.

[mr_concrete_1]

Thanks for that detailed explanation anonymouse it is very helpful in my decision process and will help guide me to a more satisfying buying decision in the future.

From your explanation I should be looking for a AVR with high "all channels driven" power rating and multi channel pre-outs. Any other fetures that should be desired?

[mr_concrete_1]

I was just looking at my local CL and found this Denon AVR3600 for $479. Anyone familiar with this model?

http://wichita.craigslist.org/ele/2030290516.html

[cnh]

That's a REALLY OLD Denon...no HDMI, no HD-sound processing. And that PRICE is too high.

If you want to buy a used Denon...with a YEAR warranty, check out this site:

http://www.dakmart.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=denon&osCsid=sunmt9iivtne4uid74hb3skiq7

An approved reseller of refurb/B stock Denons.

cnh

[mr_concrete_1]

Any thoughts on the Denon AVR-888?? I found a used one locally as well.

[anonymouse]

You need to tell us more about your system and intended usage:
- What kind of TV do you have?
- How far is your TV from the rest of your components?
- How many source components do you have? What are they?
- How important is simplicity of the installation to you?
- What is your budget?

I personally am partial to Harman Kardon because they make a practice of being honest with their power ratings. I have a Harman Kardon AVR247 rated at something like 50WPC that replaced a Sony ES (Elevated Standard) receiver, that I am much happier with. Harman has an eBay store that sells refurbished goods direct - and most people report that their refurbs can rarely be differentiated from new. See here: http://shop.ebay.com/harmanaudio/m.html?_nkw=receiver&_sacat=0&_odkw=&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3911.c0.m270.l1313

Denon and Onkyo are good brands as well.

The AVR-888 you mentioned seems like a solid choice if you only have 2 HDMI sources. Multiple HDMI sources are getting more and more common these days. For example, a cable box and a Blu Ray player will take up both HDMI inputs and if you get an XBOX 360, you will need to go directly to another input on the TV, which complicates the overall install and ease of operation. These are not insurmountable problems, but they do complicate the install some by requiring more interconnects and a programmable macro remote for ease of use.

[TECHNOKID]

Welcome to Club Polk mr_concrete_1 :smile:
Thanks for that detailed explanation anonymouse it is very helpful in my decision process and will help guide me to a more satisfying buying decision in the future.

From your explanation I should be looking for a AVR with high "all channels driven" power rating and multi channel pre-outs. Any other fetures that should be desired?To be more precise HIGH CURRENT as power is a combo of voltage and current but high current amps are the best performer.

anonymouse, while you are providing him with great advice I wouldn't put so much focus on the amount of HDMI on the AVR itself as there are usually quite a few on most TV panels which is the most suitable place to hook-up your visual devices and not counting the fact that innexpensive external add on can multiply the available HDMI inputs when lacking on the gear as per say. As far as digital audio, optical connection is a great option to connect the devices audio to the AVR.

IMO, the focus should be put on the quality of the AVR along with ensuring it can work with the latest codecs.

Cheers!
TK

[mr_concrete_1]

Okay here is more info.
- I have a 57" Mitsubishi DLP 1080p
- TV is cable wize about 10 feet from the other equipment
- right now I have a DVD player, a CD player, and the digital TV as inputs. (maybe replacing the DVD with a Blue Ray)
- Simple install is good but if more complex improves sound or picture quality, I am up for it
- Budget, good question..... You may need to speak with my wife about that!!! I would say between $200 and $400 with a desire for more for less.

I just heard back from the seller of the AVR-888 and told me he needs to sell it today and has lowered the price to $275. Based on my inputs I listed above what do you think?

[anonymouse]

.

anonymouse, while you are providing him with great advice I wouldn't put so much focus on the amount of HDMI on the AVR itself as there are usually quite a few on most TV panels which is the most suitable place to hook-up your visual devices and not counting the fact that innexpensive external add on can multiply the available HDMI inputs when lacking on the gear as per say. As far as digital audio, optical connection is a great option to connect the devices audio to the AVR.

IMO, the focus should be put on the quality of the AVR along with ensuring it can work with the latest codecs.

Cheers!
TK

Do not disagree with you, but I'd still go with an AVR with more HDMI inputs for simplicity. The whole move from DVI to HDMI was to simplify, simplify, simplify. You should not need a doctorate in Electrical Engineering to make this stuff work or operate it. While he can hook up to the TV directly and use the optical or coaxial inputs on the receiver, that poses two material issues: (a) he needs more cables - and the distance between the components and the TV might be significant, and (b) now the remote switching leaves more room for errors. Are these insurmountable issues? No, and I mentioned that earlier, but they are issues nontheless. His budget may well constrain choices, and if he is budget constrained I agree that the core receiver capabilities are most important.

[anonymouse]

Okay here is more info.
- I have a 57" Mitsubishi DLP 1080p
- TV is cable wize about 10 feet from the other equipment
- right now I have a DVD player, a CD player, and the digital TV as inputs. (maybe replacing the DVD with a Blue Ray)
- Simple install is good but if more complex improves sound or picture quality, I am up for it
- Budget, good question..... You may need to speak with my wife about that!!! I would say between $200 and $400 with a desire for more for less.

I just heard back from the seller of the AVR-888 and told me he needs to sell it today and has lowered the price to $275. Based on my inputs I listed above what do you think?

I think its a decent, but not a great buy. The last 2 sales on eBay for the same model were $235 shipped and $440 shipped. The $235 was used in mint condition and the $440 was new. I'd see if he would do $200. Point him to the eBay sale right here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Denon-AVR-888-7-1-Receiver-MINT-ALL-ACCESSORIES-/330499083177?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item4cf347cba9

In terms of your needs, it should do for now. Seems like you have no present plans to go beyond 2 HDMI sources.

[mr_concrete_1]

I have found a Denon AVR-591, does anyone know anything about this receiver?? I can get it for $100 if its worth it.

[tonyb]

Google is your friend.

[mr_concrete_1]

I have found either a Denon AVR 2307 CI or a 2809 CI for a replacment. Any thoughts or experiences with either of these receivers??

[nguyendot]

Pick up this:

Onkyo NR807 7.2 Reciever THX (http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR807&class=Receiver&p=i)

from here (http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=item&id=ONKTXNR807&extra=a%3A2%3A{i%3A0%3Bs%3A40%3A%2203823345592a403 b2f4a37a59384e7ab28f02be1%22%3Bi%3A1%3BN%3B})

[anonymouse]

Pick up this:

Onkyo NR807 7.2 Reciever THX (http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR807&class=Receiver&p=i)

from here (http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=item&id=ONKTXNR807&extra=a%3A2%3A{i%3A0%3Bs%3A40%3A%2203823345592a403 b2f4a37a59384e7ab28f02be1%22%3Bi%3A1%3BN%3B})

That is an awesome price on that unit.

[mrbigbluelight]

^^^ That price on the Onkyo NR807 7.2 Reciever THX is very good: $429 + (for me) $20 odd bucks for shipping.

That price is cheaper, BTW, than even buying refurbished through Onkyo online (www.shoponkyo.com): $529 with free shipping.

The price for the accessories4less site is for a factory reconditioned unit. I've bought Onkyo factory refurbs before, never had a problem. YMMV.

[Dawgfish]

I have found either a Denon AVR 2307 CI or a 2809 CI for a replacment. Any thoughts or experiences with either of these receivers??

I own the Denon 2809 and love it. I had an Onkyo 806 before it. With my setup in my house the Denon sounded vastly superior to the Oinker IMHO. Of course there where a few areas where I liked th Oinker better than the Denon (setup, on-screen display, remote control). I'd say if you'd found a good deal on a 2809 I would jump on it. What kind of deal are you seeing for one?

[mr_concrete_1]

The 2809 is on E-bay, its used, looks fine and the bid is currently $199.

[Dawgfish]

That's not bad, but that price will shurely go up as the bidding war starts. CNH gave you some good advice with the link to the Dakmart website. You can get some good deals on Denon products from them and since they are an authurized Denon dealer, you'll still retain the factory warranty even for their refurbished Denon items. I would seriously check it out. Oh yeah BTW, the Denon AVR-999 is basically the same as the 2809, so if you see a 999, jump on it. I would not look at anything under the 999/2809 in the Denon lineup because the lower Denon recievers do not have pre-outs, which is very improtant if you want to add an amp or upgrade in the future.

[mr_concrete_1]

Thanks Dawg.... I will keep my eyes open.