Denon versus Pioneer

[Rush Limbaugh]

I would like the most options, what say you?

[VR3]

Denon........BLEH!

Pioneer Elite..........*thumbs up*

[Zero]

I will try to keep it simple. Please take note that I do not dabble in recievers all too often...nor do I have a lot of personal experience with either of the two.

Denon vs Pioneer Elite.

Lets use the Denon 3803 vs the PE vsx-43.

Both A/V recievers retail for roughly the same price. The PE vsx-43 is THX certified if that tickles your fancy.

Sound is really a thing of preference, but you already know that. I for one, prefer the sound of the Pioneer Elite models over their Denon counterparts. The sound to me, is fuller, alive, and more personal. I find Denon to produce a relatively dry and un-involving sound.

Both recievers are incredibly versitile, capable of just about any type of connection you could want and/or need. The Denon seems to have a tad bit more, the nodd goes to it.

Also, The Pioneer Elite, while powerfull, is not quite on par with the Denons power. I would also give the power nudge to Denon, although even with that advantage, I find myself asking "wheres the beef"?

This is not an opinion full of technical backings, Im sure other more entuitave members here can provide the statistics. You know, the fancy talk.

I would go for a Pioneer. Perhaps I am a tad bias however, Ive ran a low-end Pioneer and have pushed that thing to its limit's. While it can get hot, that damn thing has yet to give way.......It now serves duty with my parents HT...believe you me, they abuse it.... its still truckin along..

While irrelevant to this thread, I feel the need to mention that for the price, I would go NAD or ROTEL.

Regards,

Sean

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
Denon........BLEH!

Pioneer Elite..........*thumbs up*

:rolleyes: puuuleeeese

Sid "thinks" Denon sounds worse, but put him in a room with a double blind test and he won't be able to tell them apart.

Pioneer Elite and Denon.

Both are excellent and compare favorably at each price segment.

You will get a better pre/pro in the Denon at a lower price point.

You will get 4 ohm load-compatible amps in the PE at a lower price point.

Doc

[VR3]

I heard the Denon series.....

I dont care what high end, advanced chips it sports - but to me, it sounds like a beatin piece of Leather. Its so dry it just might break. I can't stand the sound of the Denon. Pioneer Elite ALL THE WAY. Jeez, opinion is opinion. Blind or not, i prefer PE over Denon. I would go PE/Adcom, cheap PE receiver, Adcom amps.

[Rush Limbaugh]

I wasn't looking for a verbal fistfight here.

Thanks for being so well spoken on your points Dr. Spec. It's really impossible to say that one can't stant the sound of a certain reciever. Thats why I came here. I've heard both, and I happen to like both. I just can't decide. I don't know a lot about HT, but it seemed to me that Denon had more options.

[Rush Limbaugh]

While irrelevant to this thread, I feel the need to mention that for the price, I would go NAD or ROTEL.

Why, I am interested.

[Airplay355]

funny how u recomend PE and adcom...isnt that what u have? interesting

[VR3]

Amazing how well it comes to mind to think that I know how my own rig soungs and likes it alot.

NAD, Rotel, AMC, ADCOM, PIONEER ELITE - all great brands. Can't go wrong. Now what is your point airplay?

NAD receivers seem to be a step above all other receivers in its price range. They use very high quality amps. They dont have all the hookups. Rotel seems to be good - I dunno. Outlaw Audio may be another brand -- www.outlawaudio.com -- AMC is pretty cheap and I hear it sounds good. I have only real personal experience with Adcom, therefore I recomend them - no biggie. Get off my back......

[Zero]

Rush,

First, lets talk about the NAD a/v reciever. This one falls close to the price range you are looking at:

http://www.nadelectronics.com/av_receivers/T762_frameset.htm

Also, check out the 752. I had a chance to hear this one.

Here are my personal impressions (this demo was conducted side by side with a PE). The Scorpion King was playing...

Nad's music first approach is ever-present in this reciever. The clairty, soundstage, and deph of its sound was remarkably superior to the Pioneer Elite. You could hear detail that was not distorted, and never once did it sound strained.

Nad is known for its reserve power. It holds back a lot of its juice to handle the more "explosive" parts of music or movie's. This gives off more of an effortless sounding reproduction of whatever it is you are listening too.

The NAD is quite versitile, as you can see from the link. The only down side is, its not as powerfull as the PE's or the Denon. It you are a decible freak, than you may have to look elsewhere. Nad puts more emphasis on quality. No other standard reciever in my opinion, comes close.

Oh yes, it can power virtually any speaker you put on it, though I would recommend effecient speakers for maximum performance.

------------------------


Now on to the Rotel. This company has ascertained a lot of respect, and for a good reason. Rotel produces incredible products for the money that an audiophile on a budget, can afford and enjoy. Check out this reciever:

http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rsx1055.htm

First, dont let its stats confuse you. This thing is a beast, and its powerfull. I would have to say its more powerfull than the PE , the NAD, and the Denon. It can give you the decibles and not break much of a sweat. Rotel is known for its conservative ratings. Rest assured, those watts, are good, clean watts.

It's also SACD and DVDA ready. Really, the only reciever I have heard that has given Rotel some competition is the NAD listed above.

There is only one downside to the rsx-1055.... its not nearly as versitile as the Denon. While it covers most of your basic connections that most people use, it is not as expandable as the other recievers.

Either way, you will be getting your moneys worth...whether its Rotel or NAD. And as an extra bonus, they both drive 4 ohm speakers well.... probably the only recievers in this price range that I would use with a product like the Polk LSi's.

You got the links, you got my opinion, now its time to get your research and demo on buddy.

Sean

[mantis]

It's really impossible to say that one can't stant the sound of a certain reciever.
I realy beg to differ here,but thats just me.......

Pioneer Elite and Denon are very close runners in the receiver market.As noted,the Denon does have more features,one being video upconverting.This feature is priceless when owning a Projector or Plasma.It makes it cleaner and nicer to send all video feeds to the display.
THX is also a golden feature.This can help bad rooms.Do alittle homework before buying one or the other.
I will agree with the statement that the Pioneer Elite has a tad better sound quality,it's personal taste I perfer the Pioneer Elite.They are also alittle more dymanic.Not much really but if you sit and do a VS battle between the 2(which I have done plenty of times)you will notice an increase in dynamics with the Pioneer Elite.

Really with these 2 here,you have to see which one has the features you need.Does it has the nessary inputs to support what I want to do today and what I want to do tomarrow???Answer that question and your answer is found.

[jdavy]

I know many of you like Pioneer. I was a big pioneer fan in the days of my first Laserdisc player the CLD-1010. That was when Pioneer made only one good player. It also used an expensive red laser for reading the disk that was never used again. Player is from 1986 and still works great. But that was then.......

My next combo player was a DVL-700 a dvd and laserdisc player. Hey dvd was new, and not available yet. That machine will still play DVD's but not the Laserdisc. I noticed a huge number of "b" stocks. Items that were returned for repair and re-sold. Pioneer has had a quality control issue for a few years now. Say about 10+. They have some neat stuff. A combo DVD player that will play SACD and DVD-Audio for under $300. They have a nice 50" plasma that looks great.

I say to buy Pioneer now is a gambol. I am interested in other experiences with thier products and not opinions. How long have you had your product, what is it, and how has it fuctioned. (BTW I still think they have the best aftermarket radio for the car. I like the supertuner III.)

For home use, buy Sony ES, NAD, Rotel, and other high quality products.

My 2 cents.

hopr this helps.

[Airplay355]

i dont know i forgot, when i posted that something was making sense but i can't figure it out now, oh well.


NAD has been known to underrate them selves when it comes to watts...so 100 watts is what they say but you are most likely getting more. I heard a NAD integrated amp with LSi9's and it sounded amazing, very very clear. There wasnt much of an image but they were setup in the shittiest way possible and in the shittiest room possible so i can't blame that on the electronics or the speakers. I think you guys are right though, you probably won't get the most SPL from NAD, i had the integrated amp at about 11.5 oclock and it was loud, but still comfortabley loud, not havin a party and te whole neighboorhood can hear it loud.

I think your bet bet would be to try to find a stereo store with many of the brands you are looking into and listen to them side by side on the same set of speakers. Thats kind of a given but I think its kind of crazy to spend that much money on something based on what other people think, cuz when it all boils down who cares what other ppl think, if it sounds good to you then thats what matters. With the brands listed though, i think it would be hard for you to find something you were truly unhappy with.

[Rush Limbaugh]

Wow! I'm really starting to see a lot of support for 'NAD'. You guys need to realize how confusing all of this is to me. I really appreciate all the help, but it seems like deciding has just gotten a lot harder. I'll be honest, when I went into the store to demo 2 of the reciever brands I mentioned here I went off looks for the most part. The setups in the store were just so bad! I don't know what it is, but it seems like I just don't have the ear for HT yet.

I think thats the problem with HT when you get up into the realm where whats better really is subjective. It makes it hard for people like me to make a decision. I just don't want to spend $500 on a sub-par reciever. I want to get a good one right off the bat.

[Zero]

Rush,

There are many things you can do in this situation.

You could

A) Have a lot of patience, take the time to learn and get your demo on as much as you possibly can before laying down the green.

The down side to that is, it may be difficult holding off that awesome purchase...

B) Get the Rotel RSX-1055. Whats your budget? How high can you go? If you want to get a kick-ass reciever that wont disappoint period - B&K or Sunfire would be worth checking into.

The downside to that is, you have bought something without knowing what it is you purchased.

Its all about you brutha, what do you like...what do you want..

Is this reciever meant to last you a long time? How long?
What are you going to hook up to it? Ties into the first question really.
Once more, how big is that budget of yours? Whats the maximum you are willing to spend?

I am sure I am missing a few things here, just got home from hell........ ready to relax.

Take it all in stride bud, and stick around :)

Regards,

Sean

[Airplay355]

usually....and i do mean usually...the plainer looking receivers will sound better. i walked into a a hi end stereo store with my sister and the first thing she told me was that everything in the store looked so old. they were selling brand new, B&K, NAD, Denon, Sunfire and Marantz. going by looks is the worst thing you can do, if you want something that looks cool and has flashing lights then go to CC and buy yourself a nice Sony boombox or whatever those things are with all the fancy crap.

i would first decide how much you are going to spend and then shop around, try to get the most for your money. obvious i know but i can't really tell you what to buy, there are so many different receivers for a good reason. everyone likes different things, so to make sure you will be truly happy demo as many brands as you can and then decide what you like.

i was looking for a new receiver for a long time, in my search i discovered brands i had never even heard of before, i finally decided on a Marantz sr7200. i considered NAD but they don't have all the bells and whistles the marantz had ie. the surround modes and the extra inputs and outputs, and the multi zone feature the marantz had. it took me forever and it took alot of thinking and i must have gone over my finances 6 or 7 times before i figured out what and when i could get things. just be patient and dont just dive in, theres alot of work to be done before buying a new receiver but its worth it.

[VR3]

First off Bob - Marantz, Denon, PE are all on the same level. I know your looks/flashing lights post is directed to me. I'm not entirely stupid. PE makes fine receivers, from their bottum line to the top. They are on the same scale as every receiver in its price range. Just because it looks nicer and has a blue light does not make it bad equipment. You cant go wrong with any of the 3 brands (Denon, PE, Marantz).
Receivers are receivers, no more no less. Unless you want to lay down mega bucks - it will always sound like that.....a receiver.
All together amps/receivers it cost me rounded to the nearest 10 around 1120. It was probally the wisest 1120 I have put into my system. The SQ of the Adcoms over any Receiver costing less than 2,000 - *******IMO******** is better. It is much better than most receivers costing less than 1,000. ********IMO****** Again!
I still say, buy a cheap receiver with preouts and get amps. IMO - ALLLLLLLLLLL DA WAY - Lights, High Gloss finishes, who cares. PE makes FINE stuff.

[dorokusai]

I am biased towards Sony ES and NAD, due to owning them. Everyone has mentioned quality brands, you really do have to get out and listen to them. You will kick yourself in the rear if you buy one, and demo a friends one day, only to say.....hmmmm

I had demo'd Denon/Yamaha/Onkyo/Kenwood...all in the price bracket mentioned before $500.00. I still picked up the Sony ES. It offered more than they did in that price mark.

[Airplay355]

i like PE's blue light, i wish marantz had blue lights lol...im a sucker for blue lights, i even own a sony vaio lol...with a blue light. too bad marantz doesnt have blue lights :(

treys right receivers arent going to sound as good as seperates but everyones situation is different so seperates might not be for you right now but make sure your receiver has preouts that way you can always get them later.


2 more days till i order my marantz :D

[wallstreet]

Originally posted by Rush Limbaugh
[B...I think thats the problem with HT when you get up into the realm where whats better really is subjective. ...[/B]

There you go. Do you see why your question has no correct answer?

[PETERNG]

Generally, I prefer the Pioneer Elite, that's my personal taste/opinion a year ago. Now, I will look at both, and look at the back of each receiver, which one has the label "made in Japan" I will go with that one, if both "made in Japan", I will flip the coin..
My Pioneer Elite VSX 39 TX is still cranking great with no sight of getting old...damm, the side rosewood and glossy back finish are looking better everyday.

cheers :)

[VR3]

My PE is made in Canada.......:cool:

[BeginnersLuck]

Originally posted by PETERNG
Generally, I prefer the Pioneer Elite, that's my personal taste/opinion a year ago. Now, I will look at both, and look at the back of each receiver, which one has the label "made in Japan" I will go with that one, if both "made in Japan", I will flip the coin..
My Pioneer Elite VSX 39 TX is still cranking great with no sight of getting old...damm, the side rosewood and glossy back finish are looking better everyday.

cheers :)

That's funny, I try to do the exact opposite...

-BL

[Demiurge]

Denon

[Airplay355]

did you mean whichever one doesnt have made in japan? :confused:

[BeginnersLuck]

Originally posted by Airplay355
did you mean whichever one doesnt have made in japan? :confused:

Exactly!

-BL

[mantis]

PETERNG,
yeah.......how I love the vsx39tx...sweet looking piece.I was going to buy one way back in the day untill Denon released it's all in one box avr3801.The only thing I didn't care for on the 39 was just that,no built in amps for surroundback or 2nd zone.The M10x was cool,but i liked the Denon slighty more.......for features.The Denon also mated perfectly with the speakers I owned then(rt series)
One thing I perfer that Elite does extremely well is 2nd zone.I love the direct Ir input and the fact the 2nd zone works completely independant.

Dan

[mantis]

And just for the record,there are flagship receivers on the market that can sound as good as some seperatres on the market.Affordable seperates and flagship receivers...gaps are closer today then ever before........again listen and you'll see.

[VR3]

hmmmmmmm........

Flagships range from 2,000+ to 3-4,000+

I spent 1120......wth are you talking about?

[Airplay355]

im guessing hes talking about you saying that receivers dont sound as good as seperates, and probably my agreeing with it.

[VR3]

Yeah, receivers can sound AS good as Seperates. But will never be AS good AS seperates without spending ludicris amounts of money. When you start paying 3-4,000 on a receiver you could have made one HECK of a Seperates system. IMO of course......

[botany]

I have the Pioneer Elite VSX 49-TXi receiver and its a kick A$$ unit. The i.Link makes it possible to connect the receiver to my i.Link DVD player with a single cable. It also has the next generation THX standards (THX Ultra2 certified) and the new digital formts. And I don't want to forget about the Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration System (MCACC) makes setting up as easy as possible. This is what made me buy the Pioneer Elite 49-TXi and the weight of the unit is 70 Lbs.

Micro

[Airplay355]

holy shit i think that would brak my shelf

[VR3]

How does PE go from a measly 15 pound receiver to a gigantic 70 pounder? Must be bulletproof..........@_@

Dude 70 pounds of receiver is all my amps stacked.......sheat

[jkratzer]

I like Denon.

[botany]

Like I said I have the Flagship Receiver that Pioneer makes, that is until the 59-TXi comes out this fall. But, no S@@t the weight of the unit is 70 Lbs. Here is my list:

Pioneer Elite VSX 49-TXi Receiver
Pioneer Elite PRO-1000 Plasma TV
Pioneer Elite DVR-7000 DVD Recorder
Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai Progressive Scan DVD

My speakers are:

Polk RTi 70's Front speakers
Polk CSi 40 Center Speaker
Polk FXi 50's Side Rear back Speakers
Polk FXi 30's Rear Back Speakers
Polk PSW-650 Front Sub.
Polk PSW-202 Rear Back Sub.

I love the way I drive these speakers!

Botany

:p :p :p

[wallstreet]

Rush only has $500 though.

[Rush Limbaugh]

I have a lot more than $500. I was saying that I want to get something good right away rather than get my feet wet with a cheap-o reciever.

[botany]

Hello Rush,
If you want to get the best receiver on the market its the Pioneer Elite VSX-49TXi (IMHOP) The 59-TXi is due out in the fall but, will have a higher price. Pioneer will most likly let the people that have the 49-TXi upgrade to the 59-TXi like they did for the 49-Tx. people.

If you what you can email me and I can tell you the price I paid and were.
I bought the unit from an "Authorized Pioneer Dealer" when spending this much coin you need to keep this in mind.

Botany

[PETERNG]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
How does PE go from a measly 15 pound receiver to a gigantic 70 pounder? Must be bulletproof..........@_@

Dude 70 pounds of receiver is all my amps stacked.......sheat

Most parts are metal, not plastic...plus the bottom is solid brass to reduce interferences. Top of the line Elite still made in Japan, lfor lower models, most of them made in Malaysia now. I love the digital interface between the receiver and DVD player, one IEE 1394 connection handles all digital connection: DD, DTS, DVD-A, SACD...damm cool.

[brettw22]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
hmmmmmmm........

Flagships range from 2,000+ to 3-4,000+

I spent 1120......wth are you talking about? Sid, with as much as you're into buying stuff on the cheap and used, you know that you can get a TOTL receiver for just a little bit more than what you spent. I got a B&K AVR307 for $1600, which is a GREAT price for a receiver that sold for that $3500 price that I wouldn't ever have paid for it new...All I have to do, if I feel like it, is to send it in to have the software and dac's upgraded and then basically I have a 507.......

[VR3]

What can i say........I love seeing this 2 foot or so stack of amps......

[wallstreet]

Originally posted by brettw22
Sid, with as much as you're into buying stuff on the cheap and used, you know that you can get a TOTL receiver for just a little bit more than what you spent. I got a B&K AVR307 for $1600, which is a GREAT price for a receiver that sold for that $3500 price that I wouldn't ever have paid for it new...All I have to do, if I feel like it, is to send it in to have the software and dac's upgraded and then basically I have a 507.......

Damn, I paid $1900 for mine. Did you ever set the notch filter?

[brettw22]

I don't even know what that is wallstreet. How long ago did you get yours? I have tweeked it a bit, but to go through every single setting is almost mind boggling.......I still laugh when i make changes to the settings and then select SAVE and watch it back up the data........love that....

[wallstreet]

It allows you to compensate for room equilazation. I kind of got scrambled during that part and left it to the default. I'm still trying to figure out how to adjust the freakin bass and treble. It is an amazing piece though. Soon as I find an extra 500 bones around, it's off to become a 507.

[brettw22]

I'm not in a big rush on the upgrade only because i don't watch VHS tapes, I don't have satellite or digital cable. I watch basic cable and DVD's. I don't think that all of the formats that you get with the upgrade would really benefit me with what I have, since the DD and DTS are already onboard. I do wish that there was a very simple bass and treble adjustment. I don't think that there is though.......

[Dr. Spec]

This is like a mini parametric eq. You can pick a spot in the frequency response that has a peak, and isolate it by picking the beginning and end (i.e., the notch width), and then knock it down by measuring the size of the peak and applying the correct EQ against it. I've done it on a 507 before, not too hard, but don't use it unless you know where the peak is and how big.

Doc

[jdavy]

Rush,

If you have $ then I say get the Polk LSI line and get a good high quality 4ohm reciever. You will find one at the dealer that sells the LSI line. Most of the recievers talked about here are 8ohm and are desined for the masses and not the audiofile.

Good luck.

James

[dorokusai]

Most of the recievers talked about here are 8ohm and are desined for the masses and not the audiofile.

Designed for the masses, that is an interesting statement.

So 8 ohm owners are not in the audiophile category?

[brettw22]

Regardless of the 8ohm portion of his comment, he would be correct in saying that most receivers are made for the masses. I haven't ever heard that someone is only an Audiophile if he's running 4ohm speakers. The point still remains, a true audiophile is generally looking for their system to be made up of pieces that aren't necessarily stocked in 99% of the electronics stores around town IMO.

[botany]

When I was buying the Pioneer Elite VSX 49-TXi I called Pioneer and was told the the 49-TXi will drive 8ohm, and 4ohm speakers with no problems!

8ohm or 4ohm what does that have to do with being audiophile?

Botany

[brettw22]

My post was saying that it didn't make a difference between 4 or 8 ohm specifically. More in agreement that the majority of the equipment out there isn't designed to fit into an audiophile's system.

[VR3]

Hmmmmmm......REALLY?

Wilson Audio X-1 -------- 87,000 dollars

8 ohm...:cool:

[dorokusai]

I hear ya Brett, I understand what you are saying.

I consider myself an audiophile either way, regardless of equipment...I am an enthusiast interested in sound, just like any other $87,000 amplifier owner. No more, no less. You are too, you know what I mean?

[VR3]

Dor,
I have never seen a 87,000 dollar Amplifier...;)