Streaming Lossless Audio - Best Device?

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

OK, so let's say that I'm less than impressed with the sound quality even on lossless audio with Apple TV. The overall functionality of that device is great and I may keep it, but the audio streaming is fairly poor, so I want something else.

Requirements:

1 - Needs to be able to stream both compressed and lossless audio.
2 - Needs to do a good job with lossless audio. I may not get something as good as a high end CD player, but would like acceptable quality on lossless audio, something I could use in all but the most critical listening conditions
3 - Needs to be something I can can control with my iPad, so where I can browse the library on that device and hit play and have it play through my main HT system.

That last requirement is why I bought the Apple TV, but the Apple TV fails in requirement #2.

The only thing I've heard of along these lines is the Squeezebox, but I don't know much about it and it if meets all 3 requirements.

[coolsax]

squeezebox(touch, original, Duet), Sonos and the Olive O2M

all 3 have Iapps that allow you to control them and all have high quality streaming. I have heard part of the AppleTV issue is that its not bit perfect, though i'm not sure how much that affects the actual quality b/c i haven't tried it.

[steveinaz]

Are you going to be using an external DAC or playing analog out?

[punk-roc]

I really like using my Netbook -> USB to an external DAC for streaming from my NAS and pandora, etc

Jason

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

For now I'll be using the DACs in my Pioneer Elite AVR, may add a DAC later on. Either that or I can go analog, I suppose it depends on the device. That Sonos is nice but I'd be looking at $500 to get up and running with one of those.

My music server is in another room, so need somethat that work wirelessly. Basically I want an Apple TV, that sounds good, which apparently does not exist.

[steveinaz]

The Sonos is very appealing....

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

It sure does, I just wish they had a product that left out all the speakers and such so that I could just use it to stream and save me some cash.

[Sherardp]

Two choices come to mind

1). Fileshare App with the Ipad. Allows you to share your music directly with the Ipad from PC. Streams directly to the Ipad, so you can connect it to your home audio/video system. Works with video also.

2). Squeezebox Touch with the Ipad app Squeezepad. Allows you to see all your music on the Touch, see art etc. Create a playlist on the go, save it in the squeezepad app. So much it can it blows my mind. I use it outdoors when jamming the Atrium 60's.

Check out both.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

With the SB, can I view music on the iPad and have it play through the SB into my receiver like I can with the Apple TV, or how does that work?

[steveinaz]

It sure does, I just wish they had a product that left out all the speakers and such so that I could just use it to stream and save me some cash.

Can't you just buy the ZP90 and the remote (or cell phone app)?

[coolsax]

actually the Sonos can be started at just the cost of the Zp90 or used zp80 ,if you can find it, you don't need to buy the controller since you plan on using an Idevice (ipad,ipod,iphone) with it. this is a moot point though if the sonos won't be near the router. then you will need the zone bridge which would put it at closer to $500 to start. I'm currently happy with my laptop to USB dac, but If I ever decide to multiroom or take my computer out of it sonos will be right up there with the SB.

[heiney9]

Logitech Squeeze Box products are superb!

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/speakers-audio/wireless-music-systems

I currently have the Touch, Classic, and Squeeze Radio

H9

[BlueFox]

Does wireless have the bandwidth for lossless? And with error correction?

[Face]

A friend of mine uses his iPad to control a NAS that feeds an external DAC. He uses iTunes too, but I'm unsure what other apps are needed.

[heiney9]

Does wireless have the bandwidth for lossless? And with error correction?

Huh? It streams lossless, no issues of error correction or dropouts, etc. I've compared a cdp transport and the Touch using the same external dac and I heard ZERO difference. I was a huge skeptic a few years ago and I am convinced with a nice exteral dac you can meet or exceed a cdp easily.

I am a complete convert

H9

[unc2701]

A friend of mine uses his iPad to control a NAS that feeds an external DAC. He uses iTunes too, but I'm unsure what other apps are needed.

Nothing else needed. Computer, itunes, iPad/iPhone/iPod touch with the Apple remote app (free).

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I'm finding a few versions of the Squeezebox and am wondering if anyone has expreience with these and knows which one may be better.

I've found the Boom and Radio (I think those are out). I've also come across the Duet, Touch, and what's being referring to as the original, and i think there may be different versions of that.

I'm reading several bad reviews on the Duet on Amazon, seems that the Classic seems to be the way to go if I can find the v3.

Any thoughts?

[heiney9]

The Boom is wireless boom box that is portable and plays in stereo, sounds better than a Bose Wave Radio. Internet radio or streams from your music server.

The Radio, is a table top mono two way (bass and treble drivers) radio, again something that is portable. I use mine as a clock radio since it has sleep settings and alarm settings and I can stream internet radio or all my music on my music server in the bedroom.

The Duet is basically the same as the Classic except the remote control has an LCD screen that shows art work and what ever text info would be shown on the Classic's screen which is usually across the room.

The Touch has a larger built in (color) screen on the actual unit that shows art work and is generally clearer and larger than the text based screen on the Classic. It also has slightly better internal dac's and you can plug in a USB device. It's also Touch activated whe not using the remote, the Classic and Duet are not.

Don't go singularly by Amazon reviews. My brother had a Duet which a forum friend now has and not a single issue from either or them. If you have a iPod or Android phone there is an app that will give you the same control and features as the Duet remote. It will run all the Squeeze products actually.

iPeng for Apple; Squeeze Commander for Android.

H9

[heiney9]

I'm reading several bad reviews on the Duet on Amazon, seems that the Classic seems to be the way to go if I can find the v3.

Any thoughts?

v2 and v3 do exactly the same thing and have the exact same size display except the v2 is longer and more slender the v3 is taller and more square. They are identical except for aesthetics.

H9

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Yeah the control with the app is what I'm looking for. I could care less about the sb remote because I'll be using the iPad for all that.

I'm gonna try to find a Classic 2 or 3 and if not I'll spend more and get the Duet.

Thanks for all the help.

[heiney9]

Why the Duet if you could careless about the remote. The only thing different about the Duet over the Classic versions is the LCD remote. If are using an app for an Apple or Android product don't pay for the Duet.

I'd get the Touch since it has a nice screen display.

EDIT- you can't buy the Duet receiver w/o the controller

H9

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Exactly my thoughts, the Duet is only an alternative if I can't find a Classic...which is harder than you'd think

[heiney9]

Exactly my thoughts, the Duet is only an alternative if I can't find a Classic...which is harder than you'd think

I'm not getting it. You don't want the remote because you have an iPad yet the Duet is your second choice :confused:. Why would you pay double for soemthing you don't even want.

I would say finding a Classic will be easier.........I assume you mean buying used. The Touch is $100 cheaper than the Duet of which you already said you have no use for.

I have a Classic that is sort of for sale. The deal fell through and I'm thinking I could possibly have a use for it in my new house. The only problem with it is the digital coax out doesn't work anymore. It still has Toslink out as well as the analog outputs. I've always used the Toslink for my stand alone dac. I also have a Boulder modded ELPAC linear power supply for it which really makes an improvement.

If you are at all interested let me know. I would sell them as a package deal since I'd have no use for the ELPAC w/o the Classic.

http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/-strse-381/power-supply-squeezebox-squeeze/Detail

The mod itself is $125 and you supply the ELPAC. When you could get ELPAC's the were about $100.

H9

[heiney9]

Review in Affordable Audio of v3 and stock and MODDED ELPAC

http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2007-09.pdf

H9

[Fongolio]

Here's what I'm doing and it has given me outstanding results. I'm using J River Media Server on the computer and I stream it via my router and cat5 cable (but it will also work wireless) to an Apple Airport Express. Then from there to a DAC via toslink. Sound quality is on par with my Rotel RCD855 with tube output. My son's newest generation Ipod can control it. J River is by far the best PC based media server I've used. It will even upconvert to 24/192 and beyond if you have a dac that can accept it. The dac I'm using is the best bang for buck dac I've ever used as well. Super DAC Pro 707. It handles usb, toslink, and coax. It came with cables for all three. It's tiny but sounds superb and best of all it's around $100. The results I'm getting are fantastic.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Actually on Amazon the Duet is cheaper than the Touch, which is why I had it second in line if I cannot find a Classic. The Duet is $220 and the Touch is $290

Yeah I'd never use the remote on the Duet, I'd likely just throw it in the box and never use it.

Your classic is probably going to be higher end than what I'm looking for with the modded PS, but I'll PM you anyway.

Thanks again


I'm not getting it. You don't want the remote because you have an iPad yet the Duet is your second choice :confused:. Why would you pay double for soemthing you don't even want.

I would say finding a Classic will be easier.........I assume you mean buying used. The Touch is $100 cheaper than the Duet of which you already said you have no use for.

I have a Classic that is sort of for sale. The deal fell through and I'm thinking I could possibly have a use for it in my new house. The only problem with it is the digital coax out doesn't work anymore. It still has Toslink out as well as the analog outputs. I've always used the Toslink for my stand alone dac. I also have a Boulder modded ELPAC linear power supply for it which really makes an improvement.

If you are at all interested let me know. I would sell them as a package deal since I'd have no use for the ELPAC w/o the Classic.

http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/-strse-381/power-supply-squeezebox-squeeze/Detail

The mod itself is $125 and you supply the ELPAC. When you could get ELPAC's the were about $100.

H9

[heiney9]

The Duet is $220 and the Touch is $290

Yeah I'd never use the remote on the Duet, I'd likely just throw it in the box and never use it.

Your classic is probably going to be higher end than what I'm looking for with the modded PS, but I'll PM you anyway.

Thanks again

Are you sure the Duet you're looking at is for the whole unit and not just the controller?

The Duet retails for $399 so if it's $220 that's an incredible price. The Duet controller retails for $299 and the $220 is much more likely to be for the controller only. Not too many retail outlets carry these and they are current so no reason to blow them out.

The $290 is about the normal discount for the Touch which retails at $299.

Shoot me a PM when you get a chance...........it might be just what you're looking for at the right price.

H9

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I sent you a PM

[pearsall001]

Loving my SONOS system!!! Highly recommended. :smile: ZP90 for my system, ZP120 for the deck speakers, S5 speaker for the dining room, CR200 (two) one controller for downstairs & one for upstairs. You know you hit a home run when your wife compliments it.

[EndersShadow]

Personally I just decided to build a HTPC so I can use it to stream my FLAC and also play my DVD's and blu-rays that will be stored on my computer.

Unfortunately that setup costs more than most of the suggested products here, but in my case offers more flexibility.

[unc2701]

Are you sure the Duet you're looking at is for the whole unit and not just the controller?

The Duet retails for $399 so if it's $220 that's an incredible price. The Duet controller retails for $299 and the $220 is much more likely to be for the controller only. Not too many retail outlets carry these and they are current so no reason to blow them out.

H9

It's the whole unit- I was eyeballing that myself. Every now & then Amazon will have things inexplicably low, but it'll go away in a few days & not come back. I picked up my blu-ray for $110 in January and haven't seen it under $170 since.

[heiney9]

I looked at the link and that's a great price for the Duet. It looks like the company selling them only has a limited stock so perhaps they are blowing them out. The unit is sold through Amazon so I'm sure it's legit. But you're right these deals sometimes disappear as fast as they pop up.

H9

[Earthy]

I have a Duet. Bought it used from someone who could not figure out how to make it work. Took me about 15 minutes. The receiver is hard connected to the network. I agree with some of the amazon reviews that boot time is slow on the remote, but it's super handy if you want to listen to a playlist or a few singles. We have a PC in the same room and the web app is nice. I think once you get used to the interfaces it's a great unit.
I have yet to spend the $ for the iPhone app. Don't really need it (yet).

We have had it for 4 months and use it every day. No issues at all.

[markwoll]

I have several Duets controllers and receivers, as well as a Boom.
Love them all. I have had few problems with any of them for two years .
The iPhone app iPeng is supposed to be very good.
My latest toy is a Yamaha RX-A2000 receiver.
It is multi-zone and will play flac or wav from my NAS ( using DLNA ) with an on screen display and/or an iPhone app. There is supposed to be an android app but have not seen it yet.
It does most of the things the squeezebox players will, but it is not as flexible.

mark

[thejck]

I do this on a PC. I use foobar with the wasapi plugin that is supposed to do bit perfect. I then use a plugin called http control with foobar.
With that I can use a web browser on my phone/pda to connect to foobar on my PC and it can browse the playlist and add songs from local/netwrok drives.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I bought a SB Touch a couple weeks back and absolutely love it. Lots of good suggestions in this thread but went with the SB and it's great.

[Toolfan66]

Hummm I just ordered a stand alone DAC, and H9 has me thinking about this squeezebox touch!!! everything I'm reading about it sounds awesome. I was just going to feed my PC/Laptop to the DAC, well I still will but this SB sounds good to me.. I know it's wireless from your PC (well it can be) but you would have to put a cable from the SB to your DAC Right???

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Yes if that's the setup you want, although the DACs in the touch are very good

[thejck]

Hummm I just ordered a stand alone DAC, and H9 has me thinking about this squeezebox touch!!! everything I'm reading about it sounds awesome. I was just going to feed my PC/Laptop to the DAC, well I still will but this SB sounds good to me.. I know it's wireless from your PC (well it can be) but you would have to put a cable from the SB to your DAC Right???

i know this is not really the same issue but I used to have my PC hooked wirelessly to my network. When I tried to play FLAC files i would get drop-outs because the wireless network was not able to keep up with the higher bandwidth requirements of the FLAC file.

[thejck]

Hummm I just ordered a stand alone DAC, and H9 has me thinking about this squeezebox touch!!! everything I'm reading about it sounds awesome. I was just going to feed my PC/Laptop to the DAC, well I still will but this SB sounds good to me.. I know it's wireless from your PC (well it can be) but you would have to put a cable from the SB to your DAC Right???

I currently use a optical out connection from my very simple and cheap Chaintech AV-710 soundcard to my DAC. I belive I have achieved bit-perfect playback with what I had mentioned earlier but I might be wrong.

Why would you also want to use a squeezebox if you can use your PC?

[heiney9]

I currently use a optical out connection from my very simple and cheap Chaintech AV-710 soundcard to my DAC. I belive I have achieved bit-perfect playback with what I had mentioned earlier but I might be wrong.

Why would you also want to use a squeezebox if you can use your PC?

The Chaintech AV-710 is a very nice low cost card (now discontinued) if you are looking for a digital output. I have one in an old computer which I used for years for my wired office rig.

Ummmm......my computer is in a completely different part of the house than my main rig. The SB Touch makes perfect sense for those that don't want a PC in the living room/listening room, etc. It also have a Squeeze Radio upstairs in the bedroom and I can stream my entire music catalog to that as well. I functions as a table radio/clock radio, etc and it sounds damn good. I may also eventually get the Squeeze Boom which is a very nice sounding stereo player that sounds better than the Bose Wave Radio for a fraction fo the cost. All these units can run wireless and stream internet radio and anything from your music database from a single computer.

The computer and Squeeze products work together for a very awesome whole house wireless streaming system.

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Squeezebox-Radio-Player-Screen/dp/B002LARRDU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1303998294&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Squeezebox-Network-Player-Internet/dp/B001DJ64D4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1303998325&sr=1-1


My new computer uses the USB for digital output to my dac for the office rig.

H9

P.s. How do you choose songs? Remote? I use the Squeeze Commandar app for my Droid Phone or the remote for the SB Touch from my listening position.

[rooftop59]

I purchased a squeezebox classic and love it. I always use squeeze commander on my droid phone or my wifes ipad (the app just came our literally days after I paid ten bucks for a different one :-(
This has got to be the bezt addition to my rig in a long time. The internal dacs sound very good (although with the stock ps the bass is not quite as tight and the top end not quite as refined as the denon 2910 I directly compared it to, but its really close and the convenience factor one out for me). Hqvin the ability to pull up any album instantly and adjust volume from anywhere in the house is awesome. I now listen to albums I havent heard in years because they are so easy to access. Bottom line: love.it. Highly recommended.

[thejck]

P.s. How do you choose songs? Remote? I use the Squeeze Commandar app for my Droid Phone or the remote for the SB Touch from my listening position.

I have an abundance of computers in my house. This one also has a radeon 5650 series video card that uses a hdmi output connection to my receiver for all my video needs.
The chanintech card uses optical out to the dac and then to the stereo rig that is separate from my receiver.
Foobar has a plug-in called http control that I use and I can view my play lists and also browse network drives for my music (my music is stored on a separate data server in the basement). This is a web based plug in that I can use a web browser either on my pda or my phone(though my wireless network). There are also various templates including one that was designed for an ipod.

I believe I am achieving bit perfect playback of my flac's using the wasapi plug-in(there is also a kernel streaming plugin) with foobar. However if someone with more experienced ears were to chime in and tell me I was right or wrong would make me feel better.

[heiney9]

I used Kernel streaming and Media Monkey when I was running the old computer with the Chaintech for my wired office rig. I thought it sounded pretty good. The new computer using the USB with the proper plug-in and asynchronous conversion sounds a lot better to my ears. Same rig just different extraction.

So it's hard to say. PC sound is a bit of trial and error and it sounds like you have it set-up well. Not you, but many people, think it's a plug-n-play type set-up. To get the best possible sound things need to be tweaked along the way to avoid mediocre sound. I used Foobar a long time ago. I much prefer Media Monkey for running my wired office rig.

H9

[Toolfan66]

Why would you also want to use a squeezebox if you can use your PC?


My PC is in the basement and my 2 channel rig is up stairs, I have the W4S DAC 2 on the way, and this SB might just be the ticket.. I can use my laptop if need be as well. If nothing else it's just another toy to play with..

[heiney9]

Larry, the SB is the ticket and will integrate perfectly. You will need to eventually add a nice external linear power supply like the Channel Island Audio or Welborne Labs. It makes a difference, especially in a higher end rig.

http://www.ciaudio.com/products/VDCSB

http://www.welbornelabs.com/squeeze.htm

IMO, they are a must for the discerning ear. I did a longterm test with the stock switching PS vs. The Welborne and it is much better.

H9