View Full Version : Receiver for LSis?
08-24-2003, 07:16 PM
About to purchase some LSI 15s and 9s with the center channel along with a Harman Kardon AVR 7200 receiver, but found out the LSis are 4-ohm speakers where as the HK is an 8-ohm receiver. That kind of stinks seeing an $1800 receiver can only handle 8-ohms. A friend of mine at work said he had the same problem, called HK and the tech rep said any HK can run at 4-ohm and it's OK to do it, it'll just get a little warmer.
Is anyone out there running their LSIs off a receiver? If so, which one? I work for Circuit City and get a discount on products they carry, and REALLY REALLY wanted the 7200 HK. It's rated at 100 watts RMS but was recently tested at 142 watts RMS, which is great and I think will do the LSis well. I don't want to have to use a separate amp, so please keep suggestions only to receivers.
08-24-2003, 07:29 PM
Well I have the same problem. My Pioneer elite receiever only goes down to 6 ohms. I was interested in the LSi series myself. I currently have Polk 28's. I will probably get the 38's instead of the LSi(on sale at cc). The guys at the Sound and Vision board does not suggest using 4 ohms ..may fry both the receiver and speakers. H/K does have a nice external 2 channel amp (i'm sure the receiever your looking at has pre-outs) for about $250 on Amazon (close-out). The external amp may run the LSI's. I paln on getting a Rotel 2 channel for my elite receiver. Go to the following link for the amp on amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000051SDY/qid=1061767711/br=1-1/ref=br_lf_etk_ce_av__1//102-5373830-4288910?v=glance&s=electronics&n=537344 [FONT=times new roman]
08-24-2003, 07:33 PM
Being that you work for CC and can get a ridiculously great price for LSi and H/K why not get the 7200 with the LSi and see how it sounds and works out for you. You should be able to bring it back no problems right (in case you don't like it?)
I believe that there are some folks in here who ran LSi with H/K two channel receivers. They'll chime in.
I am running a Rotel 1055 receiver with LSi. Some folks have the Top of the line 1065. NAD T752 and NAD T762 will also run LSi fine. Then there are some folks running B&K receivers 307 & 507.
In my honest opinion, and I have owned H/K in the past, NAD, Rotel, and B&K are a step up in sound quality but it comes at a substantial cost. These receivers have bridged the gap between seperates and do-it-all receivers. Read the reviews and listen for yourself and you'll find out. You will have to listen and make that economic decision for yourself.
Welcome to the forum by the way and nice selection of speakers.
08-24-2003, 08:34 PM
Didn't somebody suggest an Outlaw amp for you at AVS? Wonder who that could have been?!?;) You might want to look at the 950/7100 (7 channels) or 950/750 (5 channels) at WWW.Outlawaudio.com
BTW, Welcome to the forum!
08-24-2003, 08:44 PM
Ditto to what Frank has said. If you are looking into some better receivers then you should also consider the outstanding value that Outlaw has with their seperates. I have not listened to this gear but have read enough from respectable owners to know that it warrants equal consideration.
I don't want to have to use a separate amp, so please keep suggestions only to receivers.
You really should reconsider this and think "outside the box". The LSi really shine with a seperate amp and I have done this as well using my RSX 1055 as a pre-pro for the mains. You want to get nice speakers like the LSi then you have to give them the proper amplification to get them where they can play to their full potential. Will they sound "bad" if you don't...no.... but they can sound better...far better.
08-24-2003, 10:40 PM
Agreed with what have been said so far. Since you are getting generous discounts from CC, may be you want to check also Denon AVR-4802R/5803, that seem to get seal of approval from some members (as to handle LSis with ease) eventhough Denon only certify them for 6-16 ohms. Have fun auditioning...
ps: just curious, what's the deal with CC: employees have access to the LSi, but doesn't stock them for sale?
08-24-2003, 10:50 PM
I would try to hook the LSis up to the 7200 first to test them out, but the problem is no local Circuit City carries the LSi or the 7200 HK. I will be ordering them directly through the manufacturer, so if I have any problem I'll have to ship it to them. I get 60% off the LSis (retail value) and I get the 7200 HK for $960, which is a steal (about 200 less than Ebay).
How much would a GOOD separate amp cost me? I don't need 7.1 processing so I'm sure a 5 channel would do me well. Must be 4-ohm stable and at least 150 RMS per channel. If I did go with a separate amp, would you recommend a preamp or to use a receiver instead that has amp outs on it? I saw the Outlaw retails for $900ish and add on a receiver/preamp and I'm sure it will cost me a good deal more than the HK 7200 would have. This is starting to become a nightmare! :)
Maybe I should just be content with my Infinity Overture 2s and save myself some money. Moving into a new house and just wanted to get a brand new setup for my theatre room.
As always, thanks for any replies and thanks for the warm welcome to the forums!
08-24-2003, 10:54 PM
With employee accommodation programs, sometimes you can get products you don't normally stock at your store. For example, my store (American TV) carries the Velodyne CHT series, but I could the HGS series if I wanted. The manufacturers generally like for the people selling their products to own them, because it makes them more familiar with the product and biased towards it when selling. Not that I am biased, I never sell anyone Polk speakers. Nope, not at all. ;)
Some manufacturers only let you buy products that your store carries though, which is dumb cause I don't buy their stuff then.
08-24-2003, 11:06 PM
Sounds like $1000 is the ceiling limit for your receiver.
NAD T762 and Rotel RSX 1055 retail for $1,299 but you can get a 10% discount from a dealer.
The NAD T752 is in your budget new for $899 and refurbished with a warranty for $599 from an authorized NAD internet dealer here:
Yawa Online (http://www.yawaonline.com/yawaonline/nadt7sursoun.html)
The NAD T752 does 200W instantaneous peaks at 4 ohms and NAD rates their power conservatively as well. If they say 80 Watts/channel into 8 ohms then they mean it.
Here's more info as well:
With NAD and Rotel receivers you really don't need an extra amp unless you like your music really loud. With my RSX 1055 I went with a seperate amp just to take advantage of a higher damping factor for tighter sounding bass but perhaps it was overkill on my part and I should have gotten a sub instead but got a great used deal on the amp on Audiogon so I jumped on it.
Harman Kardon still creates some decent stuff. Not long ago, I had a HK3475 stereo reciever running a pair of LSi-9's. I must say, that for a reciever, it had some excellent punch and quality to it.
When you dip into the realm of LSi, be prepared to spend a few more dollars than you had originally intended. These speakers love high-quality sources. Their performance greatly reflects what is driving them. While the Harman Kardon did suprisingly well, it simply could not do them justice.
For a few more hundred bucks, Pjdami listed some EXCELLENT reciever's. I would actually lean more towards the Rotel in that price range for the LSi's. Rotel seems to be a good match for the speaker and has in my opinion, more horsepower.
If you want to utilize what they have to offer, than unfortunately, you must have the coin to back up those ambitions. This controversally, includes the use of good, high-caliber wire.
I really cannot begin to describe the wonders of seperates and what they can do for a speaker along the lines of the LSi. But seperates is a spendy way to go, especially for sorround sound. The question then becomes, how patient can you be, and how big is your wallet?
My advice to you would be to sit down and to research, get your learn on...before laying down any coin. Write down a list of items that you plan on getting, and modify it as you see fit. Then when you have the money and the list - go for it! I just want to see you reap the most out of your speakers!
I think its a damn good thing that the LSi is not carried in Circuit City. This speaker is just above and beyond anything they could rightfully display.
08-25-2003, 02:43 AM
Thanks for the replies guys. I have been doing some researching tonight (at least 4 hours) and think I found what I am looking for: the Outlaw Audio package that consists of the 950 Preamp and the 7100 7-channel amplifier that does 165x7 at 4-ohm. Heard a LOT of good about this setup and I'm sure it would drive the LSis crazy! I'm a 22-year old getting close to college graduation with perfect credit and a new 4.9% FIXED APR credit card. If it takes me a year to pay this off, that's only $100 in finance charges (for preamp/amp/speakers/cables) so I think it may be worth it. The reviews I've read about the Outlaw gear are phenomenal. You guys think this will be a wise choice to go with? Also, I'm only going to do a 5 speaker setup, so I'll have 2 unused channels on the Outlaw 7100 amp. Can I run a subwoofer off those 2 channels that I want to build myself? I do car audio install for a living and want to make my own house subwoofer. If I can, how? Run both channels at 4-ohm into a dual voice coil subwoofer? Thinking of a 12 or 15" DVC like the Infinity Kappa Perfect or an Alpine Type R. If it's feasible, let me know!
Thanks again guys!
08-25-2003, 07:38 AM
Sounds like a great plan!
08-25-2003, 07:42 AM
You guys think this will be a wise choice to go with?
Yes. At $1,500 the Outlaw seperates compete directly with the Rotel RSX 1055 receiver. You get more power with the Outlaw and a true seperates configuration.
Can I run a subwoofer off those 2 channels that I want to build myself?
I personally would not do this. The sub puts a huge load on the amp. You are going to want to reserve your Outlaw amp for your LSi which are demanding enough.
08-25-2003, 07:44 AM
If I can, how?
Oh, yeah. Check out goinggonzo's custom built sub in the system showcase. I also believe Beginner's Luck has built a custom sub. Check into Adire or Tempest DIY.
08-25-2003, 07:49 AM
Great choice, the Outlaw brand has some real good writeups. That is a choice setup for an LSi system. Good luck.
I concur w/ PJ, save the channels for when you can use them normally. The sub(s) will put the hurt on that amplifier, badass or not. I would presume that if you are talking about building a sub, that it will be a robust one, so even more reason to amplify it separately.
There is a link here about 200w plate amps for subwoofers, $85.00 shipped, that Russman found on Ebay. That should be your starting point for sub work.
08-25-2003, 11:39 AM
here is just a few problems y they olny rate most ht down to 6 ohms
first is curent draw. when going pre pro each unit has a powersuply to match what curent is going to be neded.
seccond is heat. the pore curent you draw the more heat that is produced and with will caues more power and can lead to a cascade efect and blow your recever up. they also have limited heat sinks.
and 3rd heat sencetive items in your recever. when you heat them up past their desinated tolerance they can just not work right to stop working.
i would recomend if you are going toinvest in the lsi then invest in a pre prow or a all in 1 that is designed to drive 4 ohm loads.
lets say you have a recever that is rated at 100 wpc@8 ohm now you throw a 4 ohm load on it in theroy you will get 200 wpc. now the 100 wpc you will be drawing just under 1 amp of curent for each channel. at 200wpc you will be drawing just under 2 amps times 7 is around 14 amps or 12.6 amps.
i have experance with this i have a 10 year old sonny with is a great unit but it keeps going into thermal shutdown. beacues i abused it when i was yunger overdriveing it and putting the incorect loads in it. usto drive car subs with it. now it wont run more 2-3 minutes with out shuting down.
08-25-2003, 01:11 PM
Don't forget to budget at least $30 - $50 / each at a minimum for some quality interconnects if you go the 950 / 7100 route. This is a hot debatable topic here in the forum. Some people find that it makes a difference others not so much. this will be something that you will have to experiment with and listen for yourself to make a decision based on what's best for you. A lot of folks are using Signal Cable Analog 2 for interconnects; MIT makes some entry level IC at about the same price. If you want to get to maximum performance then Transparent / Kimber may be a possibility but it comes at an exponential cost especially when you are talking five IC's just for the pre to amp connections.
08-25-2003, 01:58 PM
I posted this message on AVSForum.com and still haven't got a good reply. Let me see what you guys think....
Looking to hook up some Polk LSis to an Outlaw 7100 165x7 RMS amplifier. Runs will be about 25 feet to the rears, and 10 feet to the fronts. I get Monster Cable at 60% off retail so that may let me get better cabling. The question is, do I need to? I was looking at:
which is $1.50 per foot ($0.60 per foot my cost). It's 12 guage wire, which I think should do the job. Is it worth it to step up and buy a more expensive cable, or will this do the job? I don't think Monster makes a larger cable, and for 165 watts I'm not sure if you need more than 12-gauge.
Also, from going to my preamp to my amp, I use regular RCAs, correct? If so I was looking at these:
They're $80 a pair retail ($32 my cost) and for a 7.1 setup I should need 4 pair for my install. That should run me $128, which isn't bad. Should I go for better or will lesser RCAs do the trick?
I'm really new to this sort of stuff, so ANY input is greatly appreciated!
08-25-2003, 02:03 PM
PJ - MIT should be added to the list of maximum performance, they make entry levels cables, just like Kimber and Transparent...but also make very high end interconnects. If I recall, Transparent is an offshoot of MIT. Creative differences if I read correctly.
Maz - If you get Monster cheap, then buy it. Just pick up something that you are comfortable with, and worry about upgrading later...if you even feel like doing so. Cables are a hot debate, just buy what you want.
08-25-2003, 02:56 PM
I would recommend Monster Cable M550i for your RCA interconnects, in my experience, it provides the most cost value in the MC M-series. But, if you willing to go with M850i, that's even better. If I were you, I would stay with M550i on IC, and Monster Z2 for speaker cables (bi-wire). Just my 0.02
08-25-2003, 06:02 PM
What would be the benefit in going with a bi-wire speaker wire like the Monster Z2? I will only be running 1 channel from the amplifier to the LSi 15 speaker, or would it be better if I ran 2 channels from it to the Polk? One for mids/highs and one directly into the woofer? The Outlaw is a 7-channel amp but I will only be using 5 speakers, so 2 channels will go unused. 165 watts at 4-ohm, if I bi-wire it, will that make the impedance 8 ohms per channel, giving each 100 watts? That's what the Outlaw is rated at, 100x7 at 8-ohm, 165x7 at 4-ohm.
Another problem is that the Z2 only comes in 15ft pairs, whereas I'll need 25-30ft to reach my rears. The cost is also ridiculously high. Do you really feel they'll benefit me that much?
08-25-2003, 06:08 PM
I would definitely bi-wire the LSi 15. Not everybody agrees with this; just something you are going to have to find out for yourself and let your ears decide. Also with the two extra channels you can try bi-amping. this is a little more advanced but start with bi-wire first.
Sounds like you are on a budget so if you don't do a lot of SACD or DVD audio listening in 5-channel just use Monster XP for the surrounds for now. It will suffice for Home Theater use. For max performance on the mains (two channel) and since you can get a discount on Monster, go with what Polkatese has said. This will get you started off on a good foot .. you can always improve wire later on if you feel a need to.
08-25-2003, 06:36 PM
I echo Paul's recommendation on this, you've got to listen in to decide yourself whether bi-wire is worth the investment or not. But, I would encourage you to give it a try, especially for the front LSi15. If you can get a deal on Monster, Z2 is a good starting point. Just like anything else in life, it's all about options...
Please do a search on bi-wire and bi-amp topics on this forum, there are several good discussions on this subject.
08-25-2003, 07:20 PM
No harm in trying a bi-wire setup, but I would use plain old 14-12ga wire first to see if it makes any difference to your ears first. If it does, get the monster cable, if not...you don't have any worries about returning cables that you don't want or need.
08-25-2003, 07:26 PM
I'm thinking of just buying a 100 ft. spool of 12-gauge cable:
That way I could get the exact length of wire I need and have enough left over to bi-wire my fronts. You guys think it's worth it to bi-wire the LSi 9s or the LSi center channel? Also you think this route will be ok?
08-25-2003, 10:33 PM
I think most of the folks that are big on bi-wiring would say do the front 3. Even if you are going to be listening to alot of multichannel music, I don't think the cost vs. benifit makes bi-wiring the surrounds a worthwhile endeavor. But the only way to know for sure ids to try it and see what you think. There are opinions-o-plenty around here, and the most important one is yours!!
BTW, seems to be a few responses to your post at AVS.
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