rti150 or lsi15?

[dave shepard]

I'm almost ready to order the pb2+ sub and am also looking at upgrading to new speakers for the ht. I will start by getting two fronts and am currently looking at the rti150 at cc or the lsi15 which other then cc and bb there is no real hi-fi stores in my area the one that is here is probably getting out of polk and sells at almost full-retail. Has anybody auditioned these two and what did you think?

Thanks Dave

[VR3]

If you must go RT, I would go RTi70 especially if you plan to get the PB2+...

The RTi150 is over rated. Get the RTi12 if you must have them Subwoofers. That line will release soon.

However, prior to your post - go LSi15, if you plan to get Seperates in the future.

Disclaimer - The above is my opinion. The RTi150 is a great speaker, just not for the price. Needs an extra mid-bass woofer (IMO). The RTi12 could use it for a peace pipe. I still believe the RTi70 and RTi8 can smoke both of them...

EDIT:
I also believe unless you plan to put butt-loads of power to the i150 or the i12, I would DEFINETELY not get them. I heard them with a 200 watt amp and that bass didn't even hit my chest. Was highly dissapointed in the bass performance the i12 put out...

[bigsexy1]

Not an easy answer. Ordinarily, I'd throw out the old "do you have a receiver or seperates" question before recommending about RTi vs LSi, but that doesn't apply here in this case because the simple fact of the matter is that the 150 will require just as much (if not even more) amplifier power as the 15 to truly play up to all of it's capabilities. The difference though, is that if you have a 100 watt or so per channel receiver, it will drive the relatively efficient 150s halfway descent (probably much better than it would the 15's 4 ohm load). Especially with your SVS and if you cut the lower frequencies off from them through your receiver's bass bypass crossover (but if you do that, then what's the point of even having the 150s in the first place, as that would be a criminal waste of woofage). Either way, if you have enough amp power with either the 150s or the 15s, I'd set them to large, and wouldn't even use the SVS on 2 channel stereo music (but that's just me, as I personally don't like a stand alone sub on music). One other thing to consider though, the 150s would have other speakers in a surround system from the RTi line to match it, and at least all of the rest of them wouldn't require as much amp power as a whole full set ensemble of LSis would for all of the other channels. Plus, if you get the 150s, you would still have the option to trade up to the RTi12s within the next year. On the other hand, at the price that you can get the 150s for now (I've heard of them going for $500 a pair, new in box at some cities), it truly is a no-brainer to buy these speakers, and to keep them. Another factor to consider is what will you be listening to on them. I know that I'm probably going to catch a lot of flak from LSi owners over what I'm about to say, but I personally feel that the 150/12 is probably better suited for movies and hard rock/heavy metal music then the 15s are.

Usually, I'd say to just ignore what the 15 year old kid (who often sounds like he's the one hitting the peace pipe) says, but in this particular case, he may actually be right about the 70, if you do decide to go with the RTi line, given your sub, and especially if you don't have (or at least plan on getting) a seperate power amp of at least 200 watts per channel. Whatever you do though, just don't get too caught up in the hype about how much greater the 70 is than anything else just because it has that extra passive midrange driver though. Hell, if that's the case, then I guess the R50 and even the R30 are also even better than the 150, huh?

[VR3]

::Usually, I'd say to just ignore what the 15 year old kid (who often sounds like he's the one hitting the peace pipe)::

BigSexy (wish I knew your real name, heebie jeebie...)

F*** YOU!

O.K, now thats out of the way. The RTi70's mid-bass woofers BOTH play the Frequencies below 2.5(?)khz. They are not a 2.5 way, but indeed a 2 way split into 3 drivers.

The RTi12 is 300 less than the RTi150 was retail, and is better. It is worth the wait if you must have the subwoofers built in.

Now back to the beginning of my post...

I am 14

EDIT: Since you want to be a total @$$ about it, I'm gonna say this - the R series uses different woofers, tweeters, cabinets, everything in comparison of the RTi line - no comparison between them really, IMO. So NO, the R50 will NOT be better than the RTi150. I find hard to justify the RTi150 worth the money, for the same price you can get the RTi70 which requires HALF the power, you can use the extra money you save on a killer subwoofer. With THAT combo, you could blow away the RTi150 and then some. O.K, phone down, I'm Done!

The above is directed to BS, no one else

The RTi150 is a good speaker, and if you could find it for 500 a pair. I would go for it, thats a good deal. However, the RTi12 is much better, but I would make sure you do extensive demos between the RTi70, RTi150 or the RTI8 and RTi12. The differences will vary upon your taste. It is your money, your choice. Your taste in sound, buy what you like. We can suggest what we like, that is all...

[dorokusai]

What are you going to run either of those choices on? That would essentially make your choice for you. Power and current are needed for the LSi's...the RTi150's are much more forgiving, and flexible.

LSi15's are demanding, and they sound fantastic. RTi150's are solid performers, and they sound good.

[VR3]

54" Philips Magnavox
Panasonic SA-HE200 6.1 receiver
Panasonic DVD-CP72
POLK RM7200 speaker set w/free 202sub
Hitachi fx631 hi-fi vcr



Specs on his receiver...

100 watts x 2 (stereo) into 6 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.5% THD — or 130 watts x 6 in surround mode
Dolby Digital EX, DTS-ES, and Pro Logic II decoding
6 soundfields (Hall, Club, Live, Theater, Enhanced Surround, Party Mode)
MOSFET amplifier design
TA-KE capacitors for natural, low-distortion sound
Multi-Source Re-Master processing
192 kHz/24-bit D/A converter
multibrand remote control with glow-in-the-dark keys (remote is black, even for silver receiver)
component video switching (2 in, 1 out)
digital inputs: 4 optical, 1 coaxial
digital outputs: 1 optical
4 audio (including phono) and 5 A/V (including 5 S-video, 1 front-panel, and one 5.1-channel) inputs
tape monitor loop
preamp-level subwoofer output
independent subwoofer level control
banana plug-compatible, gold-plated binding posts for all speakers
30 AM/FM presets
16-15/16"W x 6-5/16"H x 15-3/8"D
warranty: 1 year

EDIT:

Looks to only have a sub pre-out. I wouldn't go with either of the above choices, honestly...but hey! Thats me...

Oh yeah, I am confused -- How does it have 130 into 6.1 and 100 in 2? :confused: Anyone know? I'm curious.....

[dorokusai]

Trey - Thanks, I swear I didn't see that. ;)

OK, now I know more.

I think the LSi15's will kill your receiver. Go with the RTi150.

[VR3]

I still say, with THAT subwoofer go with the i70. I am serious!

The RTi70 and a PB2+ will STOMP the i150 PB2+ combo, you would be running the RTi150 on small unless you had one killer amp (then it would be mainly up to that one woofer to reproduce midrange, forget the subwoofers on the i150, then you have the RTi70, running 2 mid-bass drivers. This is actually kinda a no brainer to me...

[dave shepard]

That's pretty good MX you've done some quick homewook on my reciever. I wasn't aware of the 100x2 stereo, I new 130x6 and don't know how either, I never read any different. Your point is one of my coincerns with the pb2+ there wouldn't be any real need for a set with woffers in them I would rather have a good soild mid-range and crisp tweeter speaker, or at least I would think. Mostly it would be used for movies and tv I don't listen to music much at home. I'm 34yrs. and just getting back into this after a long absence from hi-fi. I like the sound of the rt70 compared to the lsi9 and so did my wife and also like the 150 the problem is the rt70& lsi9 are in one store and the rti150 is at cc accross town. Neither was a very good audition just a sample so it might not be fair for me to judge so soon and the lsi9 were in a crappy spot (in a window behind a set of paradigms).

[faster100]

sexy is still kinda hung up on yall bashing the 150's over the 70's.. well saying the 70's were the better choice i should say..

I love my 70's, But the "man" in me wants the 150's for the manly man look :D however the 70's are my best choice with my sub also, oh well

[bigsexy1]

"BigSexy (wish I knew your real name, heebie jeebie...)

F*** YOU!"



Hey boy, don't flatter yourself so much in your prepubescent adolesent fantasies.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"The RTi70's mid-bass woofers BOTH play the Frequencies below 2.5(?)khz. They are not a 2.5 way, but indeed a 2 way split into 3 drivers."


OK, so, what's your point that you are trying to make? Did anyone (especially me) say that it was a 2.5 way? I must have missed that one.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The RTi12 is 300 less than the RTi150 was retail, and is better. It is worth the wait if you must have the subwoofers built in."


Get your facts straight junior, there are no built in subwoofers. They are passive woofers. However, I'm sure that you are right about the 12s being better (hey, even a broke clock is right twice a day). In all seriousness, I'm really looking forward to the 12s. They should have the same awesome bass of the 150s, with slightly better midrange dynamics and a better tweeter to boot. I think this has the potential to be a killer speaker.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I am 14"

Sorry about that. I guess I gave you too much credit.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"I find hard to justify the RTi150 worth the money, for the same price you can get the RTi70 which requires HALF the power, you can use the extra money you save on a killer subwoofer."



If it's the same price, then where's the extra money you save to use for a subwoofer coming from?


School's out for now junior! Now go to sleep so you can get up in the morning for jr. high.

[brettw22]

Originally posted by bigsexy1
"I find hard to justify the RTi150 worth the money, for the same price you can get the RTi70 which requires HALF the power, you can use the extra money you save on a killer subwoofer."



If it's the same price, then where's the extra money you save to use for a subwoofer coming from? In a HT application, (i suppose many would disagree with this, but) the 150's would generally be run as a small speaker (unless you have a monster amp attached to it) because it can't handle a full range signal, like the majority towers out there. Compared to a speaker where the emphasis is on the mids vs. on the quantity of drivers spent on low end that won't be used because they can't fully handle the signal, it's money wasted for that type of situation. Big loves his 150's, and hates that others feel the 70 is a more versitile speaker, but the brunt of what you have to decide on is how you're going to use them. If you're dead set on getting a PB2+, then getting the 150 that has all the woofs in the cabinet would be pretty much a waste. That also has to do with the versitility of your source. Personally, I run my Mains, Center, and Sub to listen to music (sometimes go 5 channel too). If you don't want the extra bump from your sub when you listen to strictly 2 channel listening, then maybe the 70's wouldn't cut it for you.

I'm definitely going to be checking out the RTi12's. I think the potential is there for them to exceed anything that Polk currently has out, but if you don't have major plans for a source to run them, they won't work the way they should.

Good luck with your decision......

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by dave shepard
I'm almost ready to order the pb2+ sub and am also looking at upgrading to new speakers for the ht.

Your bass needs for HT and music will forever be taken care of with the PB2+.

Let's not waste our time discussing the relative merits of the RTi70 vs. RTi150 vs. RTi12 ad nauseum. They guy is getting a world class 115 pound subwoofer with twin 12" ultra high excursion woofers, a 900 watt digital amplifier, and three 4" flared ports. It will crush into dust anything Polk currently makes in the bass department, including the RTi12.

You don't need, nor should you purchase, any power hungry speaker with several passive woofers. There is no need to buy your bass twice - focus on what the speaker will be capable of above 80 Hz.

Your best buy would be the RTi70 since it has two passive midrange drivers and therefore will sound superior to any other currently available RTi speaker in a high passed application using a quality powered subwoofer.

I will repeat this - the best currently available RTi speaker for a high passed application using a quality powered subwoofer is the RTi70.

[VR3]

Just walks away...but
You said something along these lines *a passive mid-bass woofer and an active (something of that sort), I thought I would correct you.

I use the RTi70 for 2 channel, and as long as you don't ask them to play below 40hz...man they can really thump for 2 channel.

Doc,
How is it you can say the same thing I do and make everyone understand twice as fast? I just don't get it...:p

[dave shepard]

Sorry, I didn't mean to open the can of verbal whop-ass in my question. Thank you all for your posts none the less, my coincern was if the extra woofers would be reindered useless or at least not be required with the pb2+ anywhere within earshot (100yrds LOL) of the front speakers. Once those are inhouse we'll go to the surrounds.

Thanks again

[Grimster74]

I have to chim in here, I'm all for what Trey said, I'm currently running the RTi70's with the PB2+ and absolutely floored everytime I hear mine. Don't get my wrong, I'd love to have the whole LSi, (which is in my current savings for the line somewhere in the near future) but with the RTi150's of the LSi15's, just don't think the AVR will have enough power to drive them with enough wattage to make them sing. A good friend of mine is driving the RTi150's with a Denon 5803 and still can't get over how much better mine sounds then his. He has finally come to the conclusion that it's time to buy a amp. And I'm sure he's looking into the PB2+ also.

[Dr. Spec]

Originally posted by Grimster74
A good friend of mine is driving the RTi150's with a Denon 5803 and still can't get over how much better mine sounds then his.

Gavel slammed - case closed.

[bigsexy1]

I do not understand why anyone would even buy the 5803. I think the 3803 (which has basically the same awesome pre/pro section as it's bigger brother) plus an amp(s) with the signifigant cost savings would easily best the 5803. S&V measured the 5803's true power output at 118 watts per channel, or something like that. It didn't even top the 4802, which came in at like 140 some per (with all channels driven) if I remember correctly. More and more, I'm starting to think that only B&K, HK, Rotel and NAD actually meet spec.

I'd also be very surprised if Dave's Panasonic receiver is actually anywhere even close to 100 watts per channel in it's true output . It has no business with either the 150s/12s or especially the LSi 15s.

I do agree that in this particular case, the 70 may be the best bet (as I had already pointed out in post #3).

[Grimster74]

As far as "WHY" he would purchase the 5803. Partly because he used to work for Denon up until about 4 months ago as a Sales Rep. If anyone found out what he paid for it they would probaly fall out of they're chairs gasping for air.

[bigsexy1]

Allright then, hit us with it Grimster! What did he get it for? Just let me get my oxygen tank ready first.
Don't get me wrong, if he could get the 5803 for the same price as any of us could get a 3803, then I don't blame him. OTOH, just imagine what he could have gotten a 3803 for!
Either way, the 5803 would still benefit from external amps just like the 3803.

[Emlyn]

Originally posted by bigsexy1
More and more, I'm starting to think that only B&K, HK, Rotel and NAD actually meet spec.

I'd also be very surprised if Dave's Panasonic receiver is actually anywhere even close to 100 watts per channel in it's true output . It has no business with either the 150s/12s or especially the LSi 15s.

I do agree that in this particular case, the 70 may be the best bet (as I had already pointed out in post #3).

Agreed. Neither the RTi150s or LSi15s are a good idea with the Panasonic receiver. For home theater use with a big subwoofer, the RTi70s are the way to go.

By the way, while I agree that the RTi150s need separate amplification, I don't agree that it needs to be 200wpc or 300 wpc. I run two pair full range in a five or seven channel stereo mode (or multi-channel DVD-A or SACD) with my 120wpc Rotel and the amp doesn't even get warm when it's driven hard. The amp section in the receiver does get hot when trying this though.

[Grimster74]

Oh, could not agree more Big., okay are you ready for this. Granted, I've only known him for about a month but he seems pretty reliable, but from what he told me he paid something between $650 to $750 brand new. Told me he was going to look for the receipt to show me but he hasn't come through yet. Of course, havn't seen him in a week or so.

[bigsexy1]

G74, if that is true, then it was truly a no-brainer for him to get the 5803. He could have probably gotten a 3803 for about $300 then!
I guess that just goes to show how big the mark up on this stuff actually is in the first place as compared to how much it costs to produce it.

===========================================


Em., how are you digging those 30s?
About the 150, it is relatively efficient, but if you ever get the chance, try throwing even more power than the Rotel 125 watts to 'em and see what they are capable of. I think you might be surprised!
BTW, my Adcoms do get hot with them, but then again, they got hot even when driving highly efficient Klipschs.

[Emlyn]

Originally posted by bigsexy1
Em., how are you digging those 30s?
About the 150, it is relatively efficient, but if you ever get the chance, try throwing even more power than the Rotel 125 watts to 'em and see what they are capable of. I think you might be surprised!


Yep, more power would always be better for two-channel use. The RTi150s should really be fed by this monster:

Rotel 1090 (http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rb1090.htm)

Power consumption is 1200 watts. I have a space heater that uses less power!! But the RTi150s would take the output and still have room for more!

I love the FXi30s, but they would be unusable to me if I didn't have the ability to switch between A and B surrounds with my receiver. The dipole surrounds are excellent for home theater use. I was surprised at how much more involving the sound field is after turning off the direct radiating surround speakers I was using before. The FXi30s are not good for music though. Having the ability to use the FXi30s for movies and the RTi150s for music is great.

[VR3]

You forgot a name BS, Adcom. They are very conservative and offer a TON of slam. When you see big speakers, what do you see? Adcom...

[bigsexy1]

Vr3MxStyler2k3
"You forgot a name BS, Adcom. They are very conservative and offer a TON of slam. When you see big speakers, what do you see? Adcom... "


OK, I'm going to attemp to interpret what I think you are trying to say here. If you meant about companies that actually met spec, I was refering to receivers only, not seperates. Adcom doesn't make a receiver to my knowledge.
Otherwise, if you would have just bothered to look at my last post before this, you would have seen I mentioned that I'm running Adcoms, so that would have, or at least should have given you a clue that I hadn't forgotten them.

[VR3]

Ok Ok! My mistake, sorry...

[mantis]

My god fellas.......reads funny from over here,

ok,
The rti150's didn't impress me one bit.Actually I thought they sucked.No offence to 150 owners but thats my opnion.

The Lsi15's are worlds apart compared to the rt series.It's just the next level of performance.

As you guys mentioned above,what you are going to use is key.Matching everything is key.

[VR3]

Mantis,
I can honestly understand if you can sit here and tell me the LSi15 is worlds better than the RT line if you ran the RT line off of Denon Receivers......that is it ;)

Just Hackin on ya! I was highly dissapointed that I could not hear the LSi15 at Polk Audio HQ. Oh well, highly dissapointed...

[bigsexy1]

Mantis, I'm sorry, but I did get to check out the 15s for myself (running on some Parasound amps) at a dealer that finally started carrying the LSis not even 20 miles from me in a small town of all places. I just do not think that they are a great rock and roll speaker. Something was just lacking. It's hard to explain, but it's either there, or it isn't, and it wasn't. Not to me anyway. They just don't have the "slam" of the 150s to me while blasting AC/DC or Ozzy. On the other hand, if you are listening to some audiophile approved acoustical recording (that noone ever really listens to) such as "Mary Ulmer and Her Happy Little Dulcimer", or some other crap like that, then yes, I concede that the 15s will win hands down, no contest.

Let's face it, about the only difference between the LSis and the Rtis is the Vifa ring radiator tweets, and the new RTi line coming out will have some Vifa tweets of their own and even better cabinetry than the current LSis, so it will only close the gap just that much more. The 12 when it comes out should be a much more formidable competitor to the 15 than the 150 is.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they are currently working on the next generation LSis, but I'm not expecting any gigantic leaps and bounds in improvement in them.

I also really wouldn't be too terribly shocked if Polk discontinued the Lsis either, due to the low sales and lack of dealers. Whether anyone likes it or not, the RTis and Circuit City are Polk's bread and butter, and what keeps them in business. I personally think it's a shame that CC didn't carry the Lsis to get them out to the masses.

[VR3]

The RTi line coming out is another bad move by Polk.

FORGET THE DANG RTixx line!! It has nothing! They ALL sound the same. Wipe the slate, get some 96db effec speakers, more color choiced cabinets, better internal wiring, gold plated binding posts like the LSi line, some vifa tweets, DIFFERENT SOUNDING WOOFERS, etc etc etc....

START OVER!

O.K, I am done. I have not heard the LSi15, but I hear the LSi line does indeed use different woofers. The cabinets are much better on the LSi line than the RTi line. I am sorry.

I have heard the RTi12, and it just smokes the RTi150 in every way shape or form. Still power hungry beast though...

The mids sound similar to that of the RTi70. A tad more open maybe, but similar. The tweeter has the detail of the tri lam. Smoothness of the silk.

Overall, I will still say the RTi8, RT800i, RTi70 will be, and probally is the best bang for the buck by Polk. The RTi12 is an awesome speaker, that will require 300 to 500 or possibly 600 watts of Power to really....SLAM!

BTW - the RTi12, all the new RT line speakers are sexy arse lookin speakers, fo shizzle

[VR3]

I want to see another RT55i type speaker. That would be my surround speakers of choice...

[bigsexy1]

Vr3MxStyler2k3

"Wipe the slate, get some 96db effec speakers, more color choiced cabinets, better internal wiring, gold plated binding posts like the LSi line,"

I've got just the answer for what you're looking for------ go buy you some Klipschs.


===============================================

"The cabinets are much better on the LSi line than the RTi line. I am sorry."

That may very well be true on the soon to be discontinued Rti line, but go read the newsrelease about the new RTi series having the "best cabinet work Polk has done to date", or something along those lines.

[VR3]

Klipsch are WAY to bright for me. If there is anything wrong with Polk (IMO) is they don't play loud enough.

The cabinet work is great, I saw how they did it and such. They used a new wood type, very beautiful stuff. Great looking speakers.

However, the grills are lined with plastic like the Klipsch grills. Which I do not like, but they still look awesome

[brettw22]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
The RTi line coming out is another bad move by Polk.

FORGET THE DANG RTixx line!! It has nothing! They ALL sound the same.............. Sid, are you out of your freakin mind? There are always going to be ways that companies tweek their product and make it better than the previous line. Some may not like what one line changes or evolves into, but ya can't please all the people all the time. For you to make one of your blanket statements (AGAIN) only shows your overall obliviance towards the process. I'll spell this out for you ANOTHER time:

Louder does NOT equal better!!!!!!

I think that it's GREAT that they've redesigned the Rti line. Personally, I haven't liked the looks/performance of the current line for a while, and instead of getting something that's a basic/boring looking speaker, they're making them also something really nice to look at. I can only hope at this point that they sound as good as they look, but that has yet to be experienced by me. I must say that it's a little odd that they've gone away from the bottom power port, which is something that I think is one of the most innovative parts of the Polks that I own. I've checked out some of the other speakers that have the power port on the back, and the bass dispertion isn't the same.....

[dorokusai]

Sid wants a speaker for $200 that is:

400 lbs.
Grills made of stainless steel, not that see thru crap
One big hunk of 99.98% pure silver for a crossover
Tweeter that when played at -.10db blows your left ear off
Bass that sends his future kids to a mental hospital

Oh and wait, a cool logo for the front of them.

[VR3]

Brett,
I never said they were not good. I never said louder is better. I said this, I can only push 103-104db until my Polks start to strain, and it's no fun to go past there...

The new line sounds great, it is a step above the current line. However, they sound similar. It's not exactly oil and water.

Although they look great, sound similar, better top end, etc, they NEED a new line. It has been said on here time and time again. People ask for higher effec, time and time again.

The RTi12 is a great speaker, but probally one of the most ineffecient RTi line speaker they have made yet. If you plan to push it to it's max. You can plug it up to a 100 dollar receiver, it'll sing. Of course, it's RT. Its effecient. But to REALLY hear that speaker sing for all it's worth. Your gonna need a butt load of power, I'm talking 400-500. I heard 200 watts going into it, and I was not even impressed...

I made no blanket statement, they need to start over...

What was it?

RTA Line
RT Line
RTxxxi Line
RTixxx Line
RTixx Line
Whats next?
RTix Line
RiT Cracker Line

I mean cmon man...

[RuSsMaN]

You can remove RTA from the list. Real Time Array Series had nothing to do with the Reference Theater series.

So looking at the list, in what, the 10 yrs the RT name has been out, we've had what - THREE revisions - including the one we've yet to see released? They simply added / took away models ONCE (both under the 'RT' designation).

Lets look at some of the competition. B&W 600 series. It has been out about 8-10 years, they are currently at 'series 3'.

How about the Paradigm Monitor series (also about 10yrs old)? 'Version 3 (v3) is the order of the day.

Perhaps Polk shouldn't try to improve anything (that's what the 'i' stands for little fella). Who needs change, new models, new components anyway?

Blankets as follows (just a couple):

"The RTi line coming out is another bad move by Polk."

"FORGET THE DANG RTixx line!! It has nothing! They ALL sound the same. "

"START OVER"

Sid, sit down, and shut the F up for a minute. I'm tired of reading that a speaker is BOTH inefficient AND efficient in the same damn paragraph, which is it?


Cheers,
Russ

[TroyD]

Yeah, let's just get rid of the most successful line of speakers that Polk has ever had and one of the best selling lines of speakers on the market. Yeah, get rid of the speaker that allows Polk to produce a speaker such as the LSi at the bargain prices that it does.

I'd also wager that at the volumes Sid is describing, the amp is quitting before the speaker. Just a hunch. Besides, if you are listening at volumes of over 100db, you won't be listening to much when you get my age. That is the permanent hearing damage range.

Lastly, the Polks are NOT inefficient. 90db is fairly effecient for a non-horn loaded speaker. Sure, horns are more efficient, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

BDT

[VR3]

I listen on average at 96-98db. Even then, not for a long amount of time. It will take 1 hour of continuous 105db listening to start to lose hearing. I rarily listen to 105db. With my old setup, I would go about 10 minutes at 107db. That is all I could take. I am not that stupid...

I still think we need a new line, not nessicarily a name change. Just a different sound...

Get rid of these sub towers, and get more high quality mid-bass, more high quality tweeters. etc, do you see what I mean?

If you get rid of the 6, 7 inch subs in the RTi12. Think of all the extra money and development could have gone in the mids and highs? Better crossover components, better wiring. better binding posts. Etc, for 1,300+, I want a great speaker. Not something that is going to require a 400-500 watt amp...

[TroyD]

What's wrong with the current crossover materials and wiring?

Essentially, the way I see it, if you don't like them. Don't buy them.

If you want a speaker that you can run at ear damaging levels on an underpowered amp, look at horns.

BDT

[VR3]

I like the current line, I just don't see why they did it. It sounds so similar. However the new Tweeter is amazing...

If the RT line is so effecient as you say it is, then how come a 100 watts of Adcom is under powering? That is more than enough for me, however I would love to run a 200 watt 2 channel amp on them...that would rule.

There is nothing wrong with the RT line. I have enjoyed it for the past 2 or so years, and I bought the RTi70 speaker because I enjoyed the sound. The new line is a tweeter and look upgrade. That is about it...it was a big upgrade, but that is about it.

The RT line is good, but it could be much better. They play louder than some speakers, but not as loud as they could. How about seeing a speaker with 4 6.5 inch mid-bass woofs, a passive radiator, and a tweeter. Now that is my kind of speaker...

[TroyD]

Sid,

I'm really not trying to bust your hump here but in one breath you seem to be saying that there are no major changes and in another that there are. In one post, the new line is great in another it's a big mistake by Polk.

At the price range that the RTi line competes, sure, they could be better but, more importantly, they could be a hell of a lot worse. I think that Polk has done a pretty good job of giving us a good bang for buck product.

Ok, here you say:

. How about seeing a speaker with 4 6.5 inch mid-bass woofs, a passive radiator, and a tweeter

Yet (and I may be wrong about this) you don't really care for the RTi150. True it doesn't have PR but that is a design compromise between ported and sealed cabinets. It shapes bass response more than ultimately shaping it.

As far as your 100 watt amp underpowering your RTi70, I dunno, I'm at a loss. I've powered RTi speakers, including the RT800i (which is the closest I can come to your 70's) to earsplitting levels on a 30wpc Marantz integrated (which still pisses me off I didn't hang on to, but I digress) amp. Maybe your amp is faulty, I dunno. Of course, I don't care to listen to music at level loud enough to wake the dead.

Like I said, I'm not trying to bust your hump but point out some inconsistencies that have me and a few others scratching our heads.

BDT

[bigsexy1]

Oh leave the boy alone for cryin' out loud! He's only 14 for pete's sake. Ain't ya'll got nothin' better to do than pick on a kid? Do you also abuse defensless animals too? Just take whatever he says with a grain of salt and let it go.

One thing I will say for him though, I'll bet when you were all 14, you didn't have speakers like he does.

[TroyD]

pffffffffft....

when I was his age, I was more concerned about experimenting with alcohol and masturbation.

Sid has got his **** together (audio-wise) for a young lad, just trying to provide some constructive criticism.

BDT

[VR3]

No the RTi150 is one mid-bass. 3 friggin subs. I would never have a use for that. Heck it's useless to have all that subbage in a speaker. It has that manly appeal...but sheat.

I would prefer to have 4 6.5 inch mid-bass drivers, 1 vifa tweet, and a 15 inch PR.....that would be my speaker of choice

I have never pushed the RTi70 to it's limits. But I could easily push them to their limits if I was in a bigger room.....

[Terrax]

Hello all,

This is my 1st post at this forum, but I have been reading posts here for a alittle while, to gather information about the current crop of RTi speakers as well as CSi and FXi's. Forgive me please, but I felt compeled to chime in on this particular thread. I just bought the RTi100's at CC at a close out price of around 180/per.
To me, that is a killer deal on these speakers, even if alot of peeps bash them. They are far from dogs. With that said, I just found out that there is two RTi150's still NIB at another CC an hour and a half from where I live, at a "Managers Special" price of 245/per. "Now" at this price, who could resist taking the RTi100's back and getting these? The thing is, I keep reading all these posts about how th RT170's are soooooo much better than ether of the aforementioned models. Hmmmmm. Let me see, the lowest I have found the RTi70's closed out at, are around 300.00 plus/per. I know this is just my opinion, but at the price difference mentioned... "Gimmie the RTi150's any day". As far as quality sound produced from any of these models, it is, and must be up to the listener to determine if they are right for themselves. What I find odd is, all the "mine is better than yours" type statements made by very passionate people who want to feel that what they have spent their hard earned cash on was well deserved. Bare in mind, I'm sure I feel the same way sometimes, "but" I would not allow myself to bash what someone else believes to be a great product and has went out of their way to aquire. Speakers evaluations are much like opinions "subjective". But bashing what someone likes and has spent hard earned cash on "no matter the cost" is just down right rude. But let me say this before, someone jumps in and says, I haven't been bashing noone's choice of speakers. I have only been visiting this forum for about a week, and already I have gotten that impression from the few threads and posts I've read so far regarding this very touchy subject of RTi70 vs. RTi100 vs. RTi150's. And I doubt I'm the only one with that impression. It's great to be passionate about what you believe, but not at the expense of others feelings. I saw in another post here somewhere a statement that makes alot of sense in this regard, but is ultimately hard to live by, "Agree to Disagree". I would only add this, to that statement, "but do it without stepping on anyones toes". There.... now I too feel better:D Just my little two cents worth... hehe.

Oh..... and uh Sid..... "3 friggin subs" in the RTi150? I wouldn't really think those drivers qualify as subs, would anyone else?

Anyway, thanks for listening and I'm sorry that was a rather long post.

Terry.

[Zero]

Terrax,

Welcome to the boards. The CC over here still has the 150is at 350 per speaker. Which is still in my opinion, an AWESOME deal. If they would stick me in the audio department as per requested, I would make sure those would sell like hot cakes.

At the price your getting them for, its a steal.

Welcome to the boards! I look foward to your posts in the future!

[VR3]

The RTi150 is crossed over, the 'subs' do indeed do nothing but bass. Which qualifies them as 'subs', woofers might I say.

If you set your speakers to small, crossover at 80hz. The 'subs' on the RTi150 will barely be used. Noticeably used, but not incredibly used to cause impact. This will leave a 6.5 inch mid-bass, with a 1 inch tweeter. I would say this is a RTi38 in a gigantic cabinet, but the fact of the matter is...

With all that crossover, the mid-bass is crossed higher than the RTi38, as the i38 drifts off at around 50-40hz. I would have to say the mid-bass in the RTi150 is crossed at atleast, 60hz. Anyways, my point is, the RTi150, crossed over at 80hz, is basically a RTi38. The RTi150 is a great speaker. I like it alot, but for the price, and the power it requires to really do it's thing. I can not justify it. If you can find it for 250 each, go for it...I mean really. That is a good price. Killer actually.

The RTi70 rolls off around 40hz, very strong. It uses dual 6.5 inch mid-bass woofers, crossed at 2.1khz with the tweeter. Both woofers play below 2.1khz, in doing this makes a stronger midrange. As Doc said, the RTi70 will be the best speaker for use with a subwoofer crossed at 80hz.

The RTi12 is the step above the RTi150. When I say a step above, I mean 15 foot latter above. The mids are much better, but here is my point...

Rti12 will go for 1,300 or so.
the RTi8 will go for 700. The RTi8 requires HALF the power, which means it will be far easier to drive. Not even needing an extra amp. This will yield you with a 600 dollar option towards a subwoofer. Pecifically, lets say the PCi 20-39 SVS. You cross the RTi8 at 80hz with the PCi, you run that setup with the RTi12. You tell me who the victor is...

[VR3]

I gave the RTi150 to much credit on the mid-bass.

Polk's website says

85Hz between driver and subs

Which tells me, if you cross it over at 80hz. Very little action will be going to that subwoofer. Infact, it will mainly be just subwoofer, with a mixture of faded RTi150 subbage.

When you take (6) 6.5 inch woofers, and make them subwoofers. With ALOT of power, they can really move air....

[Terrax]

I haven't seen any spec's or price's on the new line, but if you are talking per/speaker, then....
Hm..... Rti12 for 1300 which I would have no plans to sink that kind of cash in.
Hm..... RTi8 for 700 which I have no plans to sink that kind of cash in.
The RTi150 for 245/each, which I do plan to sink that kind of cash in. And I have enjoyed listening to, and will save me around 2100 off the RTi12/per pair, and save me 900 off the RTi8 per/pair, as well as save me 300 off the lowest current price I have found the RTi70's for per/pair, which in the end, I can put toward a much more efficent amp in the future.

Victors? hm............

EDIT: Ok, then the savings would still be 800 off the RTi12's and 200 off the RTi8's, which I would much rather put into another piece of equipment to sit back and enjoy.

Terry

[Terrax]

Thank you, ATCVenom, that was most kind. I just hope I can make it there right when they open in the morning, so they don't get gone before I have a chance to snag them up.;)

[VR3]

The RTi12 looks to be 1,300 per pair, RTi8 looks to be 700 per pair...

[TroyD]

Sid, when, may I ask, did you get to do all this critical listening of the RTi150?

BDT

[faster100]

for such a young guy at 14 who go's to school, he has more time on his hands for exstensive demo's and he notices more details about speakers then i ever have at 30, I think it takes years of listening to speakers and gear to start to notice subtle differences in sound, from one speaker to another, gear, cables. wire and so on, I have been into this for about 5-6 years maybe.. and only the last 2-3 have i got really serious about it, and moreso the last 1 1/2 years have i got more critical of sound and details, and i "STILL" can't hear much if any difference with wire, cables, and amps.. but i'm learning. I think it's a aquired tatste to know and learn this stuff, to know what all the terms truely mean and be able to give advice accordingly. I never have given this kind of review because put simply i don't know how yet..

at 14, trey does seem to know alot more then the average kid, and has more gear then average, But it takes alot more knowledge and time served per say, to give such details.

I'm not ripping on you one bit,sid or getting all Oprah.. LOL but i think its true,

[Terrax]

Woot!

Just got back from Charlotte, NC with RTi150's in tow and hooked up. WoW! These puppy's are brute's. And at a killer deal of 245.09 each. BTW, if anyone lives near to or in Charlotte, NC, the Independance CC has one pair left still NIB priced at 245.09 "Managers Special" as of 11:00 o'clock this morn. Just wanted pass that along, maybe help someone else get lucky too.:D

[faster100]

Great deal!! all the CC managers i spoke with when i was trying for these speakers said, "we cant sell them that cheap" we can do $399.00 each, HUH! It seems GA and NC CC's stores give some good ol boy prices, because they sure wont in Florida ..

[bigsexy1]

Congrats terrax! Welcome to the club. Hit them w/ enough power, and you won't be disappointed.

As for Sid, it's best to just leave him alone. As I stated earlier, I've decided from now on that I'm just going to take whatever he says with a grain of salt for whatever it's worth, then let it go and just move on.

I'm sure he really means well, even if it doesn't always seem like it.

[fireshoes]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
The RTi12 looks to be 1,300 per pair, RTi8 looks to be 700 per pair...

$1400 on the RTi12's

[Terrax]

Thanks, Big.
I agree with you on the grain of salt, I'm sure Sid does mean well. I'm just happy I found an even better deal on the RTi150's than I found the RTi100's, hehe

[VR3]

I've heard the RTi70, RTi100, RTi150 all in the same room, all different placements, same track, different times, and out of all the times I still like the 70 better. I just have never found Polk's one mid-bass worth a stand alone...always found it lacking. A prime example is the RT35i, very enclosed, where as the 70 is not. Anyways...

Faster,
I agree with you. I have listened to alot of speakers in the past year. From the very best, to the very worst. (Wilson Audio X-1, Jensen Outdoors). The Wilson Audio gives you a real taste of what music REALLY sounds like. Everything else is just there. I heard the Wilson and decided to listen to a 8,000 dollar Sonus Fabor afterwards...bad idea, if I was out to buy it. Why? Because it sounded like a car speaker on 100% THD amps, thats just how good the Wilson is. The SRT is another speaker I will have to say makes the Sonus Fabor look bad, it could totally rule the Sonus...

I have heard Krell, Mcintosh, Mark L, Adcom, Yamaha (their old amps), several other brands. I will say, they're all great, and have their own place. I can not sit here and tell you I can hear everything a speaker can and can not do. However, I can tell you what I like and do not like, and you already know that. I am just a little more careless with telling people what I like and do not like. I could care less if someone is offended, because I am sure they will not hesitate to say something along these lines "He's a kid, take everything he says with a grain of salt, for he may mean well, I am sure he really does." Thats besides the point. I hear about how people like the RTi150. hey! I have heard it, it IS a great speaker, but how can you justify it? I mean, if you planned to never get a subwoofer, and lay down 600+ maybe 700 on amps, that run 400-500 watts of power, then I say get them. Other than that, I don't see why...

I've heard B&K on Mcintosh pre and amps, great setup. Great room placement and acoustics...was I floored by this setup? Honestly..no...

I have heard many different setups, not as much as others. I am still a kid, yep, I go to school every day and come home and jam for atleast 2 hours to music, and take a nap. Come on the boards, read a little, advice a little, make trouble. All that good teenage stuff that seems like you guys missed out on ;) lol, jk there...

Anyways,
I have not heard every speaker, amp, etc, probally never will. I have heard how music, instruments, how things sounds, and thats what I go by. Thats all I can offer when I listen to a speaker. My friend plays drums, I KNOW how a bass drum feels when you are 7-10-15-20 feet away from it. Acoustically, not speaker loaded. I KNOW how it feels, and sounds. I know how a snare sounds, how cymbals sound, how a voice sounds. I know how an acoustic guitar sounds, as I use to play it (kinda). I know how an electric sounds. I know all this. It is nothing new.

That is what I go by, nothing more, nothing less...