New vs. Old......

[TroyD]

You know, Jstas brushed on a topic that we've discussed from time to time and heck, why not talk about it again.....

People lately (and rightfully so) have been pumped about the closeout deals they have been getting on the RTi series. Cheap with the new car smell.

I submit to you though, that it is ENTIRELY possible to build a great rig cheap if you are willing to just be patient and look for the deals. For example, I've got right at 1000 dollars in my current 2ch rig, 1400 with the spare amps. I'd challenge anyone to take 1400 dollars and see what they can come up with, new, for a 2ch rig. I'm interested to see what folks can come up with.

BDT

[madmax]

I totally agree! When I see what $1000 buys in the "deal" realm I have to wonder why anyone would go any other route.

I have seen a trend amongst friends who do not make enough money to take the chances. They want an air tight guarentee that they will not get ripped off. Lets face it though, they are paying top dollar for this "guarentee" and although it is fairly safe to pay full price and receive brand new in the box components their money could have been better spent on something "like new" or even blemished that someone else with better means took the loss on.

madmax

[dcarlson]

I'm currently seeking out some speakers and have to keep telling myself to stay patient. It's so hard to find and wait for the deals to some around when you could really use the gear. :(

[TroyD]

Well, I for one, if I run across something on the cheap, I'll bag it just because (now, I'm CERTAINLY not in the same sphere as George or others) but hell, I figure, if nothing else, I can always get my money out of it.

To put a point on what max says, I agree. I look at it this way, take my 100 dollar Carver amp. Shoot, even if I had to drop a couple hundred in repairs, I'm STILL way ahead of the game. Same thing with, say, the Amazings or the DQ's. If I spent a grand for new repairs (or whatever) I've still got a pair of speakers that I think compete with todays speakers that cost twice what I would have in them. So, even worst case, I'm way ahead with those as well.

BDT

[dcarlson]

I agree.

I've looked at the new market and it'll cost me a fortune to get the speakers I know I'll be happy with, so now I'm searching the used market. What's great about the used market is the depreciation on the older stuff is already over and if anything they should appreciate in time.

[Zero]

Is the 1400 dollar challenge specifically in amps?

Or is this a complete - rig challenge?

Either way- I will take your challenge...

will get back to you in roughly two weeks..

[dcarlson]

Ya, what guidelines are we talking? 1 source? Cables? What? :)

[TroyD]

We are talking complete rig here. One source. Wires and cables included. Tax and shipping not included.

Here is my breakdown:

Carver Amazing's - 500
AMC CD8b - 150
Carver C1 pre - 150
Carver TFM45 - 97.50
SC interconnects / MIT Term4 ~ 100 bucks

spares: (2) Carver m400a's - 400

so, I got 1400 all in, including my spare amps.

What do you guys think you can come up with NEW for a 2ch rig for 1400.

BDT

[dcarlson]

I'd say not too much. ;)

[dorokusai]

This is a turkey shoot question. Yes, I agree 100%, that patience is what wins in the end....BUT, I know, I am a window of opportunity, and means type of person. There are many like me.

I work so much OT, that when that check comes, I have to make a move.....or the lovely "Terrie", makes a move. That essentially puts me in a bind, find a good deal....a GOOD deal, Carver amazing deal would be better, but not always workable. I would be much happier with some stereo equipment, than a bunch of shoes that don't fit me. :( I would never buy something out of blind dollar devotion, a good deal is bare minimum, period.

That being said, yes, use patience, build that rig.....Russman alone, for me has dealt me some excellent cards. My computer sings his name, when I boot up every day. My SACD warbles his heartbeat....now was that not sweet, or what? :D Anyways, its a screech really, but I will fix that later. ;)

The forum has been an excellent resource for alot of people, you would be a fool to not at least address some of the issues layed down in Flea Market territory.

[Zero]

Need my glasses, hadnt realized the challenge was to find brand NEW gear...

Ascend (or polk at clearance price), Ixos, AMC, and HSU *when its on sale* or the Titan from Parts express, could pose as an incredible value for brand spanking new gear, that would fall cleanly around that budget.

Granted, I havent heard Ascends, HSU or the TITAN kit.

[organ]

I was buying all new before but don't mind used gear now. If I'm buying new again, it's going to be stuff I wouldn't be able to find used.

Maurice

[gidrah]

Hell no. Nobody can build a system of new components that will compare with used components for the same price.

A couple of ?s and equalizing factors:
1. Can we do DIY kits?
2. Can we speculate? We kinda have to since we haven't heard your rig.
3. Can we involve 3'rd parties to do custom work?
4. MSRP and inflation compensation?

Moth Cicada = $650
CD player w/ coax dig out = $60
Scott Nixon DACKit = 300
Chip amp kits = 50
Upgrade components = 100
Mods & Tweaks = 75
wire & cable = 75
connectors = 90
TOTAL = $1400

Would it sound as good? Hell if I know. Would it compete? Damn straight it would. I would think it would actually do some things better depending on personal taste, music, room, etc.

[TroyD]

Well, it was sort of a rhetorical question.....I just really wanted to make a point that with a little patience and so forth, you can really put together a GREAT rig without breaking the bank.

BDT

[gidrah]

I couldn't agree more. Connections and opportunity also come into play though.

[burdette]

Just cause this is on topic... a co-worker bought a working Advent 10" subwoofer over the weekend at a garage sale from a (no shit) little old lady. She wanted five bucks... he gave her three. It has a woodgrain vinyl covering that is chipped/peeling on a couple of the corners (i.e. it *looks* used), but the amp and driver are fine.

[RuSsMaN]

Was it the Advent Granite?

Just curious...

-R

[burdette]

Don't know anything about it. He came in this morning and asked me if I knew of some sites to research old gear... this was new he thinks in 1996... and I asked him for a model number and he hadn't thought to get it. I'll let you know if he remembers to let me know. I think he is just interested in original price, specs, etc.

[HBombToo]

Here is my start

Counterpoint Tube/Mosfet Power amp (12)
Audio Allusionist preamp

both for $150.00

my old RTA8T's rebuilt for whatever Polk gets for new speakers and crossovers? I can't remember so lets say $200.00 total.

HBomb

[VR3]

denon 2 channel receiver - 300 (?)
Jensen Outdoors - 40 bucks
hd wire - 9 bucks
factory cables - 15 bucks
Discman cd player - 50 bucks
y splitter - 3 bucks
SVS Pb2 ISD - 900 (WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)

Ok Im done! I bet it'll rule (in the bass department)

[steveinaz]

Here's what I put together for $2400:

*Parasound HCA-1500A Amp....$749.00 (retail $995.00)
Parasound PHP-850 Preamp...$249.00 (retail $450.00)
*Cambridge Audio D500SE CD Player...$325.00 (retail $469.00)
*Athena AS-F2 Tower Speakers...$599 (retail $599)
*Audioquest Granite speaker cable...$280.00 (retail $489.00)
Audioquest Sidewinder interconnects...$144.00 (retail $144)

And to top it all off, my amp/speakers/cables/cd player are all Stereophile* recommended components. You just gotta get the most bang for your buck!

[VR3]

My 2 Channel Rig....

Mains -
RT35i (300)
**STACKED**
RTi70 (600)

Main Amps -
Adcom GFA 545 II (300) For RTi70
Adcom GFA 535 II (180) For RT35i

Pioneer Elite VSX-41 (420)

CD Player - Yamaha CDC 565 (160)

Cables - (30)
Speaker Wire - Free

M&K MX-90 - (450)

Total: $2440.00

To think of all the gear I have sold, and how much my 2 channel rig costs....I think I need mental help....

[TroyD]

Sid,

The point of the exercise was to see what you could come up with for 1400 NEW. As in NOT preowned.

I think steveinaz is on the right track. That is a pretty pimpin' rig.

Like I said, I was just curious to see what 1400 bucks actually brings on the new market....

BDT

[VR3]

BDT,
My response was to this guy steveinaz

[TroyD]

No worries Sid.

I'll put my Amazings up against your SVS allday allabout. :D


BDT

[VR3]

No SVS here...not yet anyways

[organ]

Let's see...

NAD C541i $500
Antique Sound Lab AQ-2004DT $289
2 Antique Sound Lab Wave-8 $200
Polk Audio RTi28 or newer line $300

Total is $1289. Enough money left for some IC's and speaker wires. If you go for the NAD C521i, you'll save even more.

Maurice

[RuSsMaN]

Hmmm, new for $1400? Let me work on this. Do closeouts count if I can link to em?

Cheers,
Rooster

[TroyD]

Sure, do it up.

BDT

[shack]

$1,400...

Stuff I've actually heard at NEW street prices...not MSRP:

Polk LSi9 - $600
NAD C370 Integrated Amp - $425
Sony SCD C222ES SACD CD Changer - $325
Audioquest Sidewinder interconnects - $32
Speaker wire (best I can get for) - $18

Total = $1,400. I think this could be a killer 2 channel rig!


Now my current 2 channel system was relatively inexpensive:

Denon DRA- 685 stereo receiver - $200 (refurbished)
Polk RT25i speakers - $88 (new - Crutchfield closeout)
Polk PSW 202 subwoofers (2) - $125 (new - bought from individual but never been used - promo deals)
Sony SCD C222ES SACD CD Changer - $325 (new)
Audioquest Sidewinder interconnects - $32 (new)
Audioquest Type 2+ speaker cable - $60 (new)

Total cost = $830 (MSRP was probably around $1,800 - $1,900)

It is probably not what someone would consider a GREAT 2 channel rig but it sounds pretty good and I like it!

[Frank Z]

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
Hmmm, new for $1400? Let me work on this. Do closeouts count if I can link to em?

Cheers,
Rooster

Now don't start pulling those Rat Shack 6x9's mounted in a shoebox speakers out of the "Great Crap from High School" closet!

[dorokusai]

Shack - That is a nice pick, perfectly suited, good call.

Steveinaz - Hey another Parasound user, this is getting a little more comfortable now. Welcome to the forum. :)

You guys, the whole forum, are listing some nice items, its neat to just see names and models sometimes, and think of them again.

[Zero]

Ok Gentlemen, will give this a shot. Probably will pail in comparison to other guys rigs but its worth a shot..

FIRST - THE SOURCES...

CD player: AMC CD8B - 196 shipped
Pre Amp: AMC 1100 -
AMP: AMC 2100 - *combo* 401 shipped
Interc: Radio Shack Fusion 25x2 = 50
Ixos: two 6 foot pairs (6007): 16.56

www.amchome.com

http://www.soundcity.com/product.php?id1=&product_id=45

http://www.ac4l.com/itemdesc.asp?CartId=11586847KWFRR4-EVEREST-6&ic=IXOS%2D6007P&cc=&tpc=

NOW, THE SPEAKERS:

VMPS Smaller Sub Woofer. Dual voicecoil, stacked magnet, increased power handling. for a total of $449.00

ASCEND CBM-170 bookshelf speakers - $328 a pair

Your grand total = $1440.56 cents

Throw in a couple extra bucks for some very cheap bookshelf stands, assuming you are not going to place them on something in the first place.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Main/Products/cbm-170.asp

http://www.vmpsaudio.com/sub1.htm

[setzer808]

Hmm...I'll throw my 2channel portion of my HT in

Polk RT55i's - $265 pair
PSW-350 - $199
Yamaha RX-V496 - $260
Monster Z1 speaker cable - $40
Teac 5 disc CD - $60
Monster Interconnect - $15

Total: $839

Hehe, enough change left over for some actual media to listen to ;)

[RuSsMaN]

One rig here for the books.

Polk RT7's - $0
SAE MKIII amp - $50
Audiosource Pre One - $41
Yamaha CD 555 - $19
Quadraflex Reference 610T Turntable with Grado Red- $5
DCM 720 Sub w/ B&K amp - $90
Lamp cord - $5
SC Analog One (2 pair) - $60 (cd and amp)
AR interconns (2 pair) - $12 (turntable and sub)

Total - $282

[setzer808]

Hey Russ, I'll give you a whole Benjamin for that CD-555 of yours...I mean, thats a 100 penny profit! :D

Nice deal u got on it.

[Frank Z]

QUOTE]Originally posted by RuSsMaN
One rig here for the books.

Polk RT7's - $0
SAE MKIII amp - $50
Audiosource Pre One - $41
Yamaha CD 555 - $19
Quadraflex Reference 610T Turntable with Grado Red- $5
DCM 720 Sub w/ B&K amp - $90
Lamp cord - $5
SC Analog One (2 pair) - $60 (cd and amp)
AR interconns (2 pair) - $12 (turntable and sub)

Total - $282 [/QUOTE]

This is pure Russman B.S!! I mean really Russ, you spent $5 on lamp cord, But I sure as hell don't see no stinkin' lamp listed. Geeze, what some peole won't do for a little attention! Lamp cord and no matching lamp....HA!!

[RuSsMaN]

Busted!

Dammit Frank. I may not have a lamp, but at least my couch (sofa as I like to call it) is positioned properly.

Stick that in your corn cob pipe and take a nice, slow pull.

Cheers,
Russ

[George Grand]

You guys spend way too much.....

Apt "Holman" pre-amp - $27

Carver TFM-35 - $125 (brand new)

Sumo "Charlie" tuna - $5

AR XA T-Table - $6 (guy wanted $7, but I told him I only HAD $7, and needed a buck leftover for a breakfast bagel. He bit.

Euphonic Technology ET-650 CD player - $5 ( a heavily modded Magnavox CDB-650)

KEF Reference 102 speaks -$26

Nakamichi 581 cassette deck - $10 MINT box and owners manny

One liter Gosling's Black Seal Rum - $16

$220 INCLUDING the buzz. All stuff I paid for. Could've lowered the price with "gimme's", but I wanted to do it without them.

NEXT!

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

[RuSsMaN]

Originally posted by George Grand
Apt "Holman" pre-amp - $27

AR XA T-Table - $6 (guy wanted $7, but I told him I only HAD $7, and needed a buck leftover for a breakfast bagel. He bit.

KEF Reference 102 speaks -$26



Well fuck me then. I don't know whether I want to hug you, or hit you.

The 102's saw a lot of studio use in the mid to late 80's if I'm not mistaken. What a STEAL. Oh, have I ever told you what a handsome man you are?

Cheers,
Russ

[George Grand]

You want to hit me and you know it.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

[TroyD]

Man, don't worry about Russ taking a swing at ya......It's when 'Gravy Tits' wants to "hug" you that I'd worry.

BDT

[George Grand]

He's going to need to pick up a lot of Jenny McCarthy looking genes before he hugs this skinny ass.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)