Computer hi-fi system

[EndersShadow]

In thinking about how I listen to my music at work, I realized that just about any way you slice it the source components are my biggest issue. Most iPod's either are old and dont allow lots of flexibility for navigating easy (compared to the Touch or iPhone), or are limited in HDD space. Even with expensive doc's you still need lossless files which are large by nature.

So I thought in my head, why not just build a nice small powered HTPC that uses a touchscreen for your source. Pair that with a decent USB DAC to a headphone amp and you can have a very small stack of components capable of very good sound. Best part is you can scale up the HDD's as needed. Now I do realize I could just get a Squeezebox Touch and connect a HDD to it, but thats no fun :biggrin:

In looking at the market I know some folks would just add in a soundcard with a built in headphone amp and then just let the PC do all the work, but I know that separating out your components allows you the most flexibility to swap things in and out. That and a soundcard in a computer isnt the most ideal setting for ensuring you dont have any noise.

So I am embarking upon a little quest to build a nice small mini-itx computer. I decided upon the ATX Hudson platform because its a total CPU, GPU setup and in theory it can run HD video, but I dont need that. Its got a dual core CPU and uses DDR3 memory. I am not totally locked in on the platform so feel free to make some suggestions, but keep it mini itx or smaller.

Here is what I have so far for components:

Motherboard:
ASRock E35LM1 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157324) - I like this because its got a small heatsink fan (which I would replace with a more quiet one) and has SPDIF out so I have more options later on for a DAC. Its also got support for 6 gig per second HDD for future use.
ASUS C60M1-I (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131843) - I like this one because its passive, but I lose the SPDIF output so I would be stuck using USB DAC's unless I were to add a soundcard on using the PCI Express x 16

Memory:
Crucial 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148149)

Hard drive:
I will be reusing a 320 gig HDD I have currently for this project to save a buck or two.

Accessories:
SilenX LX-HDSS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835226020) - I am not necessarily stuck on this particular one, but I will be incorporating one to cut down on any seeking noise as well as keep the HDD cool so I can keep any fans running low.

Cases: Here is where I am having trouble. I want to keep the cost low initially and later on get a good case with a good power-supply but for now I am trying to go cheap here. I need a 5.25 bay for the HDD cooler initially as well as the fact that having a 5.25 bay opens up the option later on of adding a burner to copy music direct to the device rather than having to transfer it. Here are the cases that currently meet my criteria

APEX MI-008 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091)
Thermaltake Element Q (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133093) - I like this one as I know you can modify it to hold a 120mm fan which would provide more than adequate cooling at a v
IN WIN BP655.200BL (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811108196)
APEVIA X-FIT-200 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144255)

Most of these configurations come in at under 150 bucks not including shipping. For what I get out of it I dont think thats a bad idea.

Now the most expensive part will be the touchscreen and I am looking at some of the 7" options as I dont need it to be super big. Those seem to be almost as much as the actual system itself.

I will still need to acquire a Operating system and I haven't decided if I want to stick with the Windows OS and go Windows 7 or if I want to go more open source and go with XMBC. Both motherboards should be able to handle that with no problem, but I am not sure how the output will look over a USB touchscreen.

I am curious as to everyone's thoughts out there on just this aspect of it, building the computer based storage part.

[EndersShadow]

Anyone??

[heiney9]

Go USB and forget the soundcard, unless that is something you need for headphones.

If it were me, I'd still ditch the soundcard and go with this. A headphone amp/USB dac. And be done with it. Using this in conjucttion with a small PC via USB should produce stellar results provided you are using FLAC files.

http://www.acoustic-fun.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=32

H9

[heiney9]

Also "stuck using USB Dac's" isn't necessarily a bad thing. If this for computer based audio in a modest rig, in my experience USB is an excellent choice. Be sure to settle on a play back program like Media Monkey........or.......

H9

[EndersShadow]

Go USB and forget the soundcard, unless that is something you need for headphones.

If it were me, I'd still ditch the soundcard and go with this. A headphone amp/USB dac. And be done with it. Using this in conjucttion with a small PC via USB should produce stellar results provided you are using FLAC files.

http://www.acoustic-fun.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=32

Thanks for that info. I had seen that before. The dedicated soundcard was honestly something I wasnt planning on using. The motheboard I am looking at has both USB and a optical out so I could use either a USB DAC or something like a dedicated pre for instance something bigger like a B&K type deal. I dont need that flexibility but if its there thats not necessarily a bad thing. I do know some of the USB DAC's can handle higher bitrates than you can get via Optical though.


Also "stuck using USB Dac's" isn't necessarily a bad thing. If this for computer based audio in a modest rig, in my experience USB is an excellent choice. Be sure to settle on a play back program like Media Monkey........or.......

Yeah USB is where I will start. I will be looking to use iTunes with lossless AIFF files and whatever USB DAC I start with.

The reason I mentioned going with a DAC & headphone amp seperate is that I am probably going to be buying a Schiit Asgard here in the next couple days along with a set of heaphones. As such I wouldnt need a headphone + DAC at that point.

And I may end up going with the motherboard thats a bit more expensive that doesnt have spdif as its passive so less noise to add to the system.

So I would either be adding something like a Bitfrost (if I keep this Schiit in the family) or a Keces USB DAC.

Eitherway the headphone amp and headphones will already be here before I get this itx system up and running.

[nwohlford]

If you want to skip the touchscreen, look at the splashtop app for your iphone. Now to use without a wireless network you would have to set-up an ad hoc network with both your pc and iphone. The only real problem that I have had with it is that when somehow lost the connection I would have to connect to my work monitor to sort things out. The tiny screen can be a little maddening (definitely works better on in iPad.)

I also have tried the RemoteHD app which is a little less buggy sometimes, but I don't think works quite as well.

[heiney9]

I would NOT use the optical out from the motherboard. But I understand sometimes budget constraints and how the system will be used determines what's best. For my main rig pretty much the sky's the limit as far as gear and goodies, etc (wihtin reason). The office rig has a certain $$$ threshold no matter what the audio consequences or compromises are.

I'd try and go with the Keces head amp/dac but it is pricey. I just know the design and quality is well above it's price point.

Personally I hate iTunes and AIFF files, but again we are all different. I wouldn't spend $450 to listen to AIFF files thru iTunes. Maybe opto from the MB is the better route for this instance.

H9

[heiney9]

I bet the Keces would outdo the Asgard and another dac.

H9

[EndersShadow]

If you want to skip the touchscreen, look at the splashtop app for your iphone. Now to use without a wireless network you would have to set-up an ad hoc network with both your pc and iphone. The only real problem that I have had with it is that when somehow lost the connection I would have to connect to my work monitor to sort things out. The tiny screen can be a little maddening (definitely works better on in iPad.)

I also have tried the RemoteHD app which is a little less buggy sometimes, but I don't think works quite as well.

Yeah I have been looking into those kinds of options, but I dont want to open my computer up for others to connect to at all at work :smile:. I am still seeing whats out there. I have a Windows Media Center remote and I believe a IR adaptor for USB to use with it somewhere. Going that route would save me a Touchscreen and I could save some bucks and just get a small VGA monitor.

I am trying to make this something thats NOT going to have to be constantly tweaked at work to get it going so I am going to take my time on the software aspect.


I would NOT use the optical out from the motherboard. But I understand sometimes budget constraints and how the system will be used determines what's best. For my main rig pretty much the sky's the limit as far as gear and goodies, etc (wihtin reason). The office rig has a certain $$$ threshold no matter what the audio consequences or compromises are.

Yeah its honestly not that big a deal in the end, since I am wanting to go as silent as possible more than likely I will be looking to go with the more expensive mobo as it is passively cooled. Even if I go with the cheaper one that has optical, doesnt mean I have to use it.


I'd try and go with the Keces head amp/dac but it is pricey. I just know the design and quality is well above it's price point.

Yeah its outside my pricepoint right now. I will consider it down the road when I finally get the source built and start looking at dac's. It would be one less component in the mix.


Personally I hate iTunes and AIFF files, but again we are all different. I wouldn't spend $450 to listen to AIFF files thru iTunes.

I listened to both FLAC and AIFF files of the same song and personally couldnt tell any difference between them sound wise. It also is nice as honestly I gave up fighting iTunes as its just much easier to manage 1 library for everything rather than having to constantly convert FLAC to AIFF for use with my iPhone and vice versa.

Who knows maybe I will load this machine with FLAC only and leave my home computer on iTunes....

[codyc1ark]

I listened to both FLAC and AIFF files of the same song and personally couldnt tell any difference between them sound wise. It also is nice as honestly I gave up fighting iTunes as its just much easier to manage 1 library for everything rather than having to constantly convert FLAC to AIFF for use with my iPhone and vice.

WTF... I thought I'd never hear such beautiful words from you, Dan.

BTW, my freebie dell will be here this week, but I just spend the HD budget on scuba classes, damn.

[Face]

Also "stuck using USB Dac's" isn't necessarily a bad thing. If this for computer based audio in a modest rig, in my experience USB is an excellent choice. Be sure to settle on a play back program like Media Monkey........or.......

H9I wouldn't consider using J. River via USB settling on anything.

[heiney9]

Good thing I don't use J. River then :wink:

H9

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I bet the Keces would outdo the Asgard and another dac.

H9I'd like to know what experience that is based on. I like Keces and have one sitting right here beside me, and would agree that their stuff is really well built. The Asgard is a very capable headphone amp though and sounds superb. I can tell you from my own personal experience that my Keces USB DAC and Asgard sound very good. I don't have the integrated you linked to compare them, but I doubt a solution with a compromised design will sound better.

[Face]

Good thing I don't use J. River then :wink:

H9Your loss. :razz:

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Face, your two posts don't make any sense, appear contradictory

[EndersShadow]

Found a VERY interesting looking little case. I am seriously debating purchasing this little fella (http://www.psile.com/index.php?page=catalog_details&CID=1#included) if I can figure how how much it friggin costs lol

73746

P.S. that link wouldnt load the full page unless in IE, you would think they would make it work in other browsers but oh well..

My only concern is if a 80mm fan would be enough to cool the Hudson platform. I have read it works good with the Atom platform so I would hope it works for the Hudson...

[EndersShadow]

Anyone ever heard of a company called Realan? Seems they are based out of China....

Case looks bogus given the gramattical errors all over but their case (http://www.minicase.net/product_E-Q8.html) looks like exactly what I am wanting. Plus even Lian-Li has grammar issues on their English site and they are known and trusted.

[Drenis]

That's a sexy case.

[Face]

I wouldn't consider using J. River via USB settling on anything.Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant using J. River is far from a compromise.

[Drenis]

So this J. River is good stuff eh?

I've heard it takes the look of the Zune software. As a MM user, it may be time for a change.

[Face]

It has many different views and most are customizable.

[EndersShadow]

That's a sexy case.

Yeah, available in Europe only now lol. Been discontinued for years..

Well I got it down to my base components.

Case: APEX MI-008 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091)

This case has the flexibility to let me mount my 3.5 HDD in a 5.25 bay using a cooler/silencer, or to start with just suspending it via hairbands (ghetto I know but it works :biggrin:). In addition as shown in this review (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article905-page7.html ) it allows you to use a 120mm fan on the side to keep temps low without adding tons of noise.

Motherboard: ASRock E350M1 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157228)

This board was chosen because its got a faster processor than the other option I had listed. This may come into play and its not something you can augment later on. Its technically capable of HD playback and all sorts of other things I wont need right now, but may want to add later. Specifically its got a PCI express slot to add things like graphic cards, wireless cards, ect. I plan to replace the stock heatsink fan with this one (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9349/fan-582/Noiseblocker_NB-BlackSilentFan_XM1_40mmx10mm_Ultra_Quiet_Fan_-_2800_RPM_-_11_dBA.html?tl=g36c15s70 ) and possibly under-volt it as well to lower the noise level.

Memory: Crucial 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148149)

Its cheap and I like the brand. Thats about it on that lol.

Hard Drive: 320 gig 7200 RPM

Re-using an existing drive. At a later date I may consider replacing it with a bigger size 2.5" HDD since they produce less overall noise.

40mm CPU replacement fan: Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentFan XM1 40mmx10mm Ultra Quiet Fan - 2800 RPM - 11 dBA (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9349/fan-582/Noiseblocker_NB-BlackSilentFan_XM1_40mmx10mm_Ultra_Quiet_Fan_-_2800_RPM_-_11_dBA.html?tl=g36c15s70)

Noctua 120mm side fan: I will be re-using an existing fan I have for this and then eventually purchasing this fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608026) to add in to see if its better

In addition I plan to add Acoustipak noise dampening material to all sides of the case and any other places possible. I have enough existing scraps to do this I believe. This will quite the PC down even more.

For just building the PC this is a pretty good little monster.

Total cost for the parts (not including the replacement CPU fan) 172 to my door. Time to start saving my pennies again :smile:.

So side notes: I was debating switching to a Pico PSU and going fanless but I dont know how I would work that since the case doesnt have a cover piece for where the powersupply is. Doing that would help both the overall system draw as well as giving me more room for better airflow.

[doctorcilantro]

What about the Wesena cases?

http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/HTPC-ITX1-Silver-Ultra-small-aluminum-chassis-HTPC-ITX1-S.htm;jsessionid=FC9E82F6A40D6E3F88779E8C4066D4E2. qscstrfrnt06

http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/images/ITX1-SILVER.jpg

You could leave the PCI-E open to experiment down the road with a SOtM USB card; many good reports across the web and they can make a difference.




Anyone??

[doctorcilantro]

LOL, I didn't see this post. I have one of these sitting right here that I used to use. They weren't cheap. Fun little case because the height allowed you some serious flexibility with higher powered CPU/cooling.

I just sold my OrigenAE M10 (http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/HTPC-aluminum-chassis-M10-Base-Silver-HTPC-M10-Base-S.htm); was a very nice one. But I have moved on to a larger PC in another room as master.

http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/images/4-M10_angle_silver.jpg

I think the PSILE was $300! The M10 is about $180.

You mentioned the Squeezebox Touch upthread. I'm still waiting to find some firsthand reports on how well they work with JRMC now that they will show as a Zone; meaning you can control it from JRMC. I think they allow 192kHZ now too on ST?


Found a VERY interesting looking little case. I am seriously debating purchasing this little fella (http://www.psile.com/index.php?page=catalog_details&CID=1#included) if I can figure how how much it friggin costs lol

73746

P.S. that link wouldnt load the full page unless in IE, you would think they would make it work in other browsers but oh well..

My only concern is if a 80mm fan would be enough to cool the Hudson platform. I have read it works good with the Atom platform so I would hope it works for the Hudson...

[doctorcilantro]

I think it is the other way around. Zune release 2006. I've been using J. River since 2003?


So this J. River is good stuff eh?

I've heard it takes the look of the Zune software. As a MM user, it may be time for a change.

[EndersShadow]

LOL, I didn't see this post. I have one of these sitting right here that I used to use. They weren't cheap. Fun little case because the height allowed you some serious flexibility with higher powered CPU/cooling.

Which case does "these" mean lol...

Those cases look REALLY nice.... my ONLY concern is adequate airflow with only a 40mm fan in the case and a 40mm fan on the heatsink by default. That and it would force me to purchase a 2.5 HDD to start with as right now I just have a 3.5 320 gig.

[EndersShadow]

Doc:

Thank you for those links! The HTPC-ITX4 (http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/HTPC-ITX4-Silver-Mini-HTPC-aluminum-chassis-HTPC-ITX4-S.htm) looks VERY interesting especially with the pico PSU option. So do the HTPC-ITX6 (http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/HTPC-ITX6-Silver-Mini-HTPC-aluminum-chassis-HTPC-ITX6-S.htm) and HTPC-ITX7 (http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/HTPC-ITX7-Silver-Mini-HTPC-aluminum-chassis-HTPC-ITX7-S.htm).

I am totally ok with the fact they use a 80mm case fan as that gives me better options for aftermarket fans, and all these have the option of using a 3.5 drive AND a 2.5 drive and the ITX6 & ITX7 can use a cd drive. They are all about 4" tall which IMHO is totally acceptable.

I like the ITX6 and ITX4 the best, but the ITX7 has all the same features + some other options and is 10 bucks cheaper than the ITX6... but those USB and card readers kinda muck up the front of the unit....

The ITX6 comes in at around 150 which may not include shipping. However it looks MUCH better than all the other options I have looked at case wise so it might be a worthwhile investment...

Some pics for everyone.

ITX4
73823

ITX6

7382573826

ITX7

7382773828

[heiney9]

As a MM user, it may be time for a change.

What don't you like about MM?

H9

[EndersShadow]

Anyone have any thoughts on the Atom D2700 platform v. the AMD Hudson M1? I know this isnt the best forum for this (I have feelers out elsewhere) but know there are some other computer geeks here besides me :wink:

[EndersShadow]

Found a better solution :biggrin:. Allows for better processing (re encoding FLAC) for not much more than the Hudson platform :smile:.

Now to start buying the parts....

Motherboard (65): Foxconn H67S (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186211)
CPU (50): Intel Celeron G530 Sandy Bridge 2.4GHz LGA 1155 65W Dual-Core Desktop (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116409)
Memory (15): Crucial 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148470)
CPU Cooler (40): Scythe SCKZT-1000 80mm Kozuti (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185167)
Case (150): HTPC-ITX6 (http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/HTPC-ITX6-Silver-Mini-HTPC-aluminum-chassis-HTPC-ITX6-S.htm)
Hard Drive (0): Resused 320 gig 7200 RPM something lol

Total cost: 300

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

For 300 you're in that price range where you can probably find a used Mac mini.

I can't say if it's better than what you're looking at because I don't know that gear, but I can tell you it would make an excellent choice for what you're wanting to do and that's what a lot of people buy them for.

If you went that route you could just use your existing iTunes setup and you could use the remote app on your phone to control the playback, super easy.

[EndersShadow]

For 300 you're in that price range where you can probably find a used Mac mini. If you went that route you could just use your existing iTunes setup and you could use the remote app on your phone to control the playback, super easy.

As in Mac Mini laptop or Mac Mini desktop?


I can't say if it's better than what you're looking at because I don't know that gear, but I can tell you it would make an excellent choice for what you're wanting to do and that's what a lot of people buy them for.

Yeah, the Sandy Bridge thing is new, I am willing to be a Mac Mini will have better graphics. This is Intels responds to AMD's APU processor as the Sandy Bridge has onboard graphics from what I understand.

I hadnt thought about the Mac Mini. Will have to do some research, only thing with that is you cant just upgrade the HDD later on and keep it in the same enclosure. Thats one nice thing about that build above, I can just buy a really big 2.5 HDD later on and replace the 3.5mm one with it, or keep it as extra storage.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

The Mac Mini is a desktop computer, small form factor using laptop parts. It's a great option for your purpose. The hard drive doesn't pop right out but it's not too bad. I'd say if you're capable of building that machine then you'll be able to replace the hard drive in a Mini.

Anyway, just a thought

[EndersShadow]

Yeah I looked at a couple on CL didn't realize you could pop the HDD out and replace it.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

A few notes on the the Mac Mini route given a few questions I've received via PM.

First, when it comes to Apple computers there are basically two categories, the good and the suck. For the most part, the Intel machines are good and the PowerPC machines not so much. There may be some exceptions in each category, but for the most part that's a good rule of thumb. Apple quit using PPC processors in all their machines several years ago, though which year precisely depends on what machine you're looking at - anything with a G in the name (G4, G5, etc) is a PPC machine. Whilw a PPC machine might work for a music server I personally wouldn't recommend it because alot of programs are only for Intel Macs, the PPC machines just aren't worth the trouble.

When you hear people say something like "Macs are underpowered and overpriced" they're usually referring to the PowerPC models.

I mentioned using your iPhone as a remote for the computer, this works over Wifi. So your phone needs to connect to the same network your computer is on (your computer can be hard-wired or on wifi). I don't believe the Remote app works via bluetooth.

Swapping the hard drive isn't too bad in the Mac Mini. It's not designed to be a user replaceable part, but if you can build a PC it shouldn't be a problem for you. It will vary by model, but you should be able to find instructions for your model online.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I thought I'd posted this previously but I don't see it, but I'd like to share an alternative approach to what you're doing. I've spent the last year trying to accomplish what I believe you're trying to do, get a decent sounding headphone rig for use in the workplace that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I feel like I'm qualified to speak given the amount I've time and effort I've invested into getting the setup I want, but obviously YMMV.

I"m not sure if your requirements are aligned with mine, so I should start with my needs that way you can stop reading here if we're not looking for the same things. My list is pretty simple though

1 - I want good sound. I know I"m not going to be able to re-create my proper headphone rig from home at the office, but I do need good sound.
2 - I doin't need all 4500 CDs loaded, but I need at least all the stuff I listen to on a regular basis, around 400 albums or so.
3 - Must have ability to play lossless files, kinda goes hand in hand with #1
4 - Headphones need to have a sealed design, such that I don't have sound leakage into the surrounding environment. I"m at work, and other people don't want to hear my music.

I've tried lots of setups (using my work PC with an external hard drive with a DAC/HeadAmp, using the Macbook with a Dac/HeadAmp, driving headphones directly from the Macbook, and alot of configurations of the 3 with different headphone gear). After many permutations of different gear and computers to drive things I've ultimately decided on a much simpler solution, I use an iPod Classic and the PSB M4U 2 headphones.

That's it, iPod and Headphones, nothing more.

It's a very simple setup that sound absolutely superb. The PSB have an 'amped w/o noise cancelling' mode that sounds superb coming straight out of an iPod. No DAC or anything, just playing lossless files coming straight from the headphone out of the iPod. The PSB use two AAA batteries and get about 60 hours of playback, this is for the amped mode that I use, they also work without batteries in the passive mode.

Does it sound as good as my proper headphone rig at home? Well, actually it's closer that I expected and than you'd think, but ultimately the headphone rig does outperform it, but certainly not by a mile and I'd argue that the PSB are even better for music where impact is more important. That's not a fair comparison though, the real question is 'Does it perform better than the other rigs I've tried at work?'.

The answer to that is a bit more complicated. I will say that the setup I have now sounds better than any of the setups I've tried previously at work, but I attribute that mostly to the headphones. So if I were to take these headphones and hook them up to one of the setups I'd tried previously it may outperform the combo I'm using now, but certainly not by much, if even at all. I hooked the PSB into the headphone rig at home and while they did sound a tad better, it was a very small improvement and not something I'd ever hear at work while doing other things.

Let me put it another way, I have the Macbook Air and a couple DAC/HeadAmp combos that I already own and could use at work, and I still choose to use the iPod setup.

I did upgrade the hard drive in the iPod from the 160 to a 250 GB drive, but now that I've got all the music I need loaded I'm not even using up all of the 160. It's nice to have the extra space and know that I can load up more of my music if I want but in retrospect if I were doing it over again I'd save the coin on the 250GB drive and not worry about the upgrade.

What's important though is that I'm 100% completely satisfied with the sound and the setup overall. It's what I'd call fairly inexpensive, $225 for the iPod and $400 for the headphones (both bought new could be had for less used), and about a buck per week in batteries for the PSB.

What's funny is that I also this setup around the house, I can get away with this because they sound so good and yet are also portable. Before, whenever I wanted to listen to music on my headphone rig I'd go into the office, warm up the tube amp and sit at the computer or in the recliner and listen. Now I can sit in the living room with the wife, watch what's on the TV or read a book and get my music fix for the day. I've spent the last two weeks in the recliner in the living room 'watching' the olympics, reading Jurassic Park and listening to my music. It's nice not to be restricted to the office when I want to listen to music. I only crank up the headphone rig now when I"m going to be at the computer for a while or when I'm in the mood for some serious listening, funny thing is that with the tablet I'm spending less and less time in front of the computer these days.

So there's my $.02, fwiw

[EndersShadow]

Thanks for that input. In looking over your requirements mine are similar, however I am looking for a great sounding rig that I can listen to both at home and at work. I will transport it as need be so its got to be somewhat portable (as in briefcase carry able). I like you need closed can’s so the Grado SR2’s I listened to and loved are out both for price and because they are open cans.

I think for me with my Windows knowledge level and computer building skills the Windows based system paired with something like a Audio GD NFB-12, NFB-5 or Compass unit and headphones is going to be my ticket for right now. All these are both USB DAC's as well as headphone amps so they cut down on the total number of boxes on my desk. Eventually I will probably move up to something better both DAC and headphone wise, but the Audio GD combo products seem like a good compromise for now.

I need this system to be totally self sufficient for playback so using wifi isnt an option but Bluetooth is. I believe the Windows system I have in the works along with the case will allow me to use my iPhone (via Media Monkey app) to control playback for now. If not I have spare mice and monitors to use till I find a better solution.

So for me the 300 dollar computer build + 250 DAC/Headphone amp + headphones is probably my starting point. I may progress like you and slowly go to a much more portable rig, but I think this is the best for what I need right now.

I do welcome any thoughts folks have on those Audio GD products listed above (Compass, NFB-16, NFB-5)

[Denzel]

Well, after looking through all of the posts, and since computer audio is horribly subjective, here is where I would look for anything regarding computer-based audio... the CAPS v2.0. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/405-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-caps-v20/. It is a pricey solution, but the research is exhaustive on this product. Just another option for what it is worth. I looked through the thread and did not think I saw this mentioned, so if i missed it my apologies.

I built one of these about 3 months ago... took a bit to find all the parts, but it is well worth the effort if you have computer-based audio as part of your system. I was using a combination of AppleTV (with iTunes) to external DAC and a SONOS unit with their interface software, all stored on a LaCie 2big network 2. The CAPS v2.0 allowed me centralize my media and have dramatically better sound quality, all in one unit. I have about 4500 CD's worth of audio ripped down as .WAV.

[EndersShadow]

So to break it down for everyone here is what I am needing opinions/thoughts on

1. Audio GD Compass
2. Audio GD NFB-16
3. Audio GD NFB-5
4. Matrix mini-i

My main source will be lossless files either in iTunes (AIFF) or MediaMonkey (FLAC). More than likely iTunes will be the main source.

[heiney9]

In that list of 4 the Matrix mini-i seems to be at a disadvantage. The Audio GD stuff is solid, it's just a matter of the level of performance and features you want between the 3 you have listed. If buying new, be aware of the 4% paypal fee and the shipping charges.

H9

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I'm not gonna sit here and say that the portable setup I use now will sound better or as good as the setup you're looking at, but I'll say it will sound damn close. You're going to run into the same issue that myself and everyone else in this situation faces though, the effect that closed headphones have on the sound

Closed headphones have a materially different sound than open headphones, and nothing you do upstream with your gear is going to change that. It's physics, plain and simple. I know because I've spent the last year trying to get the sound of my open cans with closed cans and lots of different gear, trust me it just ain't gonna happen.

If you want the ultimate sound you're going to have to spend more money and maybe go with open cans depending on what you're looking for. My point here is that in your budget I don't think you're going to get much better sound by going with the setup you're considering vs a more portable setup like I've got, I know I didn't.

It sounds like you're already set on your next movie, and I know everyone doesn't have the same needs as I do, but I'd suggest that you at least consider the following:

I would consider two rigs. If you don't need closed headphones at home and want the absolute best sound quality at home then I would look into building a headphone rig that is specific for home and the ultimate sound. And for work or on the road I would at least look into a setup like mine, PSB cans driven from something like an iPod or Cowon. It means ultimately spending more money, but you could start with a portable rig for now and get 99% of the sound you'd get from the setup you're looking at and ultimately have more flexibility and buil;d the high end rig as funds allow.

If you don't want to go that route AT LEAST try the setup I'm proposing. You already have an iPhone, and though not identical to the iPod its close enough to try it out. Load up some lossless files on there and give these PSB headphones a listen. See if there's a dealer near you that will let you listen (I bet there is) or worst case get a pair from somewhere like Crutchfield were you can return them if you don't like them.

I don't guarantee that everyone will like the sound because we're all different, but I'm convinced everyone should at least listen to the combo and decide for themselves, and you can essentially try it out for free since you already have half the setup.

[EndersShadow]

In that list of 4 the Matrix mini-i seems to be at a disadvantage. The Audio GD stuff is solid, it's just a matter of the level of performance and features you want between the 3 you have listed. If buying new, be aware of the 4% paypal fee and the shipping charges.

H9

Yeah the NFB-5 honestly is probably out of my reach. The Compass is used but shipping from Germany and the NFB-16 would be new so I would have to pay those fee's but I think even then its under budget.

The Compass intrigues me as it can be used as a pre-amp later on if I were to purchase another headphone amp. That and its allows you to swap out OP amps as well.

The NFB-16 I like due mostly to cost and it can be run off battery most of the time for lower noise floor. I dont need to run off battery's since this will be a 24/7 connected to wall setup, but it would be nice to not have lots of cables.

The Matrix Mini-i I threw in because its another nice unit as well. I ruled out (so didnt post) the Youlong U100.

[Face]

Just a heads up on Audio-GD: http://www.head-fi.org/t/562756/warning-audio-gd-power-cords-improperly-wired

[EndersShadow]

Thanks for that face. Thankfully I can just use one of the 50 computer power cables I have already in place and later on maybe a pepster cable.

Thought on the NFB-5? H9 and ZingoNFB already weighed in via PM.

Basically how big a deal is asynchronous USB v standard USB?

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

The post that Face linked to on the Audio GD is interesting, especially given the fact that the DAC I received from them (for the DAC shootout) was defective and had to be replaced. I"m not making an overall statement about their quality, but the two seemingly unrelated items do raise some questions about their QC.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

The importance of asynchronous USB depends on the design of the DAC. With some its less important because they reclock the signal anyway. I'd argue it carries about the same importance as a chip used in a DAC - it can impact the sound but a DAC overall is about more than just the chip, it's about overall design.

The same applies to asynch USB. It's easy to get hung up on that aspect, and I did for a long time. But ultimately the DAC that won my shootout and is my favorite is a PeachTree that doesn't have asynch USB.

[heiney9]

I too bought a used Audio GD product and it had a defective DIR 9001 reciever chipset. I swapped power cables between the dac and tube integrated because the one Trey made for me is longer and the dac sits farther away.

I am wondering if the bad Audio GD cord (assuming it is in fact a mis-wired one) I have been using on my expensive tube integrated could damage it in some way. Last time I used it, I smelled something and it seemed one channel went out. I shut it down and tore it apart to see if I could see any brown/black parts, nothing. Closed everything up and haven't run it since.

Could a defect if that kind ruin the output tranny of tube integrated or some other parts, or is it just saftey/shock potential hazard type thing?

Sorry if this veering off course.

H9

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Did anyone bring up the Keces DAC/HeadAmp combo? That's another option I would check into and based on my experience with each company would recommend over the Audio GD, although in fairness have not heard the combo from either company.

[heiney9]

Did anyone bring up the Keces DAC/HeadAmp combo? That's another option I would check into and based on my experience with each company would recommend over the Audio GD, although in fairness have not heard the combo from either company.

That's the one I recommended when he first started asking questions, but I think it's out of his price range. That is still one I would recommend over the Audio GD NFB-5. That said, I enjoy both my Audio GD NFB-3 and Keces DA-151, with the Keces getting the nod because it's a bit more organic, has a better soundstage and better bass delineation.

H9

[EndersShadow]

I'm not gonna sit here and say that the portable setup I use now will sound better or as good as the setup you're looking at, but I'll say it will sound damn close. You're going to run into the same issue that myself and everyone else in this situation faces though, the effect that closed headphones have on the sound

Closed headphones have a materially different sound than open headphones, and nothing you do upstream with your gear is going to change that. It's physics, plain and simple. I know because I've spent the last year trying to get the sound of my open cans with closed cans and lots of different gear, trust me it just ain't gonna happen.

If you want the ultimate sound you're going to have to spend more money and maybe go with open cans depending on what you're looking for. My point here is that in your budget I don't think you're going to get much better sound by going with the setup you're considering vs a more portable setup like I've got, I know I didn't.

It sounds like you're already set on your next movie, and I know everyone doesn't have the same needs as I do, but I'd suggest that you at least consider the following:

I would consider two rigs. If you don't need closed headphones at home and want the absolute best sound quality at home then I would look into building a headphone rig that is specific for home and the ultimate sound. And for work or on the road I would at least look into a setup like mine, PSB cans driven from something like an iPod or Cowon. It means ultimately spending more money, but you could start with a portable rig for now and get 99% of the sound you'd get from the setup you're looking at and ultimately have more flexibility and buil;d the high end rig as funds allow.

If you don't want to go that route AT LEAST try the setup I'm proposing. You already have an iPhone, and though not identical to the iPod its close enough to try it out. Load up some lossless files on there and give these PSB headphones a listen. See if there's a dealer near you that will let you listen (I bet there is) or worst case get a pair from somewhere like Crutchfield were you can return them if you don't like them.

I don't guarantee that everyone will like the sound because we're all different, but I'm convinced everyone should at least listen to the combo and decide for themselves, and you can essentially try it out for free since you already have half the setup.

I just saw this.

Here I guess is what I am thinking. Rather than two setups, one at home, one at work, why not just put it all into one rig with 2 different headphones. Yes I have an iPhone but its only 16 gig's and I cant even load it fully with all the music I like to listen to a a decent bitrate as it is. That and those PSB headphones are just a bit too pricey for me to get without that being the ONLY thing I get.

I figured I would build a really good rig (amp, source, etc) that allows me to listen with different cans but the same source. That saves me from having to have 2 different sources to carry around, update, etc. Honestly at home if I am going to listen to anything its through my rig downstairs. The computer will allow me to either go direct via HDMI to my Integra for its DAC's or use the same USB DAC if I want in that system allowing me both a work & home setup with headphones as well as with my main rig. That saves me buying something like a Squeezebox as well as setting up a portable work rig.

I plan on getting a nice set of closed headphones for work for now. If/When I start really listening via headphones at home often enough then I will look into open cans.

Until then I think this setup gives me a lot of flexibility in my setup with regards to connecting it to different systems without compromising audio quality.

[EndersShadow]

Did anyone bring up the Keces DAC/HeadAmp combo? That's another option I would check into and based on my experience with each company would recommend over the Audio GD, although in fairness have not heard the combo from either company.


That's the one I recommended when he first started asking questions, but I think it's out of his price range. That is still one I would recommend over the Audio GD NFB-5. That said, I enjoy both my Audio GD NFB-3 and Keces DA-151, with the Keces getting the nod because it's a bit more organic, has a better soundstage and better bass delineation.

I tried looking for it but Acoustic Fun pulled all the Keces stuff from their site so the only place I can see things is their non english site: http://www.keces.com.tw/

[heiney9]

Hmmm....I was there the other day, last week or so.

H9

[EndersShadow]

This next question will be subjective but is there enough of a difference between 24/192 via coaxial and optical and 24/96 via USB only to warrant switching motherboards to one that has all three options?

It appears some of the older Audio GD stuff has limitations on the inputs: "supporting up to 24Bit/96KHz via USB and 24Bit/192KHz via Coaxial and Optical inputs"

[whitecamaross]

This next question will be subjective but is there enough of a difference between 24/192 via coaxial and optical and 24/96 via USB only to warrant switching motherboards to one that has all three options?

It appears some of the older Audio GD stuff has limitations on the inputs: "supporting up to 24Bit/96KHz via USB and 24Bit/192KHz via Coaxial and Optical inputs"
hmm there might be, but i dont think it is cost efficient. i mean, at this point you have to ask yourselve whether the difference in sound is THAT much different to justify the cost of changing boards.

[EndersShadow]

hmm there might be, but i dont think it is cost efficient. i mean, at this point you have to ask yourselve whether the difference in sound is THAT much different to justify the cost of changing boards.

lol, the computer hasnt been built yet, there is another board that has a optical out all the same options as what I was looking at and is all of 5 dollars more :smile:

[EndersShadow]

I actually found a refurb board that is better than what I was looking at and is cheaper :smile:.

Optical, HDMI, 4 SATA, USB 3

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Generally speaking, USB is going to be better than optical out on most motherboards

[EndersShadow]

Generally speaking, USB is going to be better than optical out on most motherboards

Cool I will stick with the board I was looking at originally then. It doesnt have optical out, but does have HDMI just in case as well as 3 SATA ports and a eSATA. Otherwise the other choice I have has DVI and VGA and only 2 SATA, with no external one but its 20 bucks cheaper.

Option 1 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186211) Foxconn H67S
Option 2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186216) Foxconn H61S

Then its down to figuring out if I go with the Audio GD Compass or the NFB-5. On paper I like that the Compass has a line in so I can use it as a pre-amp for another source as well as for USB from a computer, but that doesnt mean it sounds as good as the NFB-5 does. The Compass is about 20 cheaper than the NFB-5.

[EndersShadow]

So I found what I believe to be the best solution for my system that allows me to control media playback without using a monitor at all. Its called the Mobile Mouse Pro (Remote / Trackpad) By R.P.A. Tech (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mobile-mouse-pro-remote-trackpad/id289616509?mt=8). According to their demo here you can customize buttons to start programs on your computer. The then allows you to skip pause, ect just like a regular program. It doesnt however show you your library on screen.

I looked and there is a Remote app for iTunes that shows you your library, ect but I cant find out if it works if your connected to an ad hoc network which is what I really want to know as I could just install a cheap network card into the computer create an ad hoc network and then use the Remote app to control everything from my iPhone which would be MUCH preferred.

I started an additional thread here (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?135176-iTunes-Remote-app&p=1802972#post1802972) since this is a different topic but ties into this discussion

[EndersShadow]

Just a brief update:

Ordered the ITX-6 case, and have the NFB-5 on its way to me. Dialing in the motherboard choice now, and have the CPU and memory I want dialed in. Also have some ideas on a good aftermarket heatsink to replace the stock Intel one, but want to see how it performs both noise and size wise before spending more. Also will be replacing the stock 80mm fan on the case most likely, however I want to try and undervolt it first to see if I can save a couple bucks for now and get the case fan later in the year.

Its been a bit since I looked at components and PCI Express slots so I apologize that this is a pretty dumb question. All the motherboards have a PCI Express 2.0 x 16. Can I put a wireless card in that slot even if its NOT a x 16 slotted card? I think the slots are backward compatible so I could put a wireless PCI x4 card in it and have it work, but am not sure

[EndersShadow]

I think I might go USB instead so I keep the PCI slot open for future use. Any thoughts on something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833162037

[EndersShadow]

Just re-found this program and it looks like it might be my best option: http://www.katoemba.net/makesnosenseatall/mpad/

[EndersShadow]

So here is what I am probably buying next week:

Motherboard: ASRock H67 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157238)

CPU: Intel G530 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116409)

I decided on this board as its got HDMI, DVI, VGA, Optical & USB 3.0. In addition the 24 pin connector is located in a location that will not interfere with the 3.5 HDD bracket that many other boards would.

The board can boot from a 2+ TB HDD if I wanted to get one later on.

Memory: G-Skill 4 gig DDR3 1333 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231421)

Total cost = 162

The only add-ons will be the addtion of a Noctua NF-R8 PWM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608028) fan to replace the stock fan and a the yet to be release Noctua 95x95x37 (http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=presse_archiv&step=2&news_id=77&lng=en) Intel cooler. Until then I plan to hopefully use the stock fan.

[Face]

I've used G Skill twice and both times one stick was defective, I'd look elsewhere.

[EndersShadow]

I've used G Skill twice and both times one stick was defective, I'd look elsewhere.

Good to know. I will default back to Kingston or one of the other brands I personally have used.

[EndersShadow]

New Memory: Kingston Value 4GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139945)

[EndersShadow]

The Black ITX-6 case and Pico PSU arrive tomorrow and the NFB-5 on Wednesday. I still haven't ordered the computer parts as I keep going back and forth a bit on the motherboard.

In the meantime I started another thread looking for a decent USB cable (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?135290-High-quality-USB-cable-for-USB-DAC), as well as asking about the iTunes Remote App (http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?135176-iTunes-Remote-app).

It appears the remote app will work on a ad-hoc network which is exactly what I will be setting up on the computer, but I need to test it once all the hardware is in and installed. Otherwise I have a couple options that might work as well, however the Remote app is the preferred method for sure.

[EndersShadow]

Just opened the package up

Front
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/NFB-5/1AF9F74C-E577-40B3-8798-6AB784D17F60-3051-0000048DBCEF07D0.jpg

Back
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/NFB-5/6977BA88-B18F-4355-A7EA-1D57C68AAF4C-3051-0000048DD097ADDD.jpg

DIR chip (not sure which one just yet)
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/NFB-5/38272391-5E7B-45C7-9F49-03726E4E973B-3051-0000048E0B2F3129.jpg

Sun, Moon, Earth OP Amps:
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/NFB-5/A3D4C5A1-1751-4D41-B98A-D78B82BFF99E-3051-0000048DF7D4C885.jpg

Stock Powercord - according to another forum the powercord might not be wired right internally so I will be using a stock one from a computer to start with. A Pepster Cable is probably goign to be put here eventually :smile:

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/NFB-5/46E764E6-1029-4376-AA6A-2E0F1BA964C5-3051-0000048E198FF499.jpg

[heiney9]

Use the 9001 DIR chipset. What player did you decide on? Be sure to use the ASIO4ALL plug-in. It's freeware and you need to DL it and "install it" in your player.

H9

[EndersShadow]

Use the 9001 DIR chipset. What player did you decide on? Be sure to use the ASIO4ALL plug-in. It's freeware and you need to DL it and "install it" in your player.

H9

Its the NFB-5 we discussed. For the shipped price it was simply too good to pass up. The cost new with all the parts (DIR chip + 3 OP amps) and shipping was ~475. I paid considerably less :biggrin:.

P.S. the pics dont do this thing justice. Its literally half the width of the Yamaha R-300 I have on my desk and about the same height and depth.

Here are some better pics of the DIR chip thats not in the player. Any thoughts on which DIR chipset it is?

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/NFB-5/B3D74161-A1E4-4B2E-A1B1-3C1BF55FC6A3-3051-0000049109F6D2F3.jpg

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/NFB-5/B723EB0E-DA2D-46AA-B5C4-09AC1FD5A138-3051-0000049148374A3E.jpg

[heiney9]

I believe all the newer one's ship with the 9001 (unless it's a hi-rez unit). There was a time when you could choose. That looks exactly like the 9001 they had to replace in my NFB-3.

H9

[TNHNDYMAN]

congrats on getting the project moving forward. I hope you are thrilled with it.

Just noticed the additional signature line- guess I'm quote worthy now. I don't play well with others when tired and cranky lol....

[heiney9]

The player I am referring to is what audio player are you using on the computer? WINAMP, MediaMonkey, iTunes, J-River, etc.

H9

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I'd say based on reading his posts he's still planning on using iTunes if he can get the remote app to work on an ad hoc network under Windows.

I would personally not recommend that approach as iTunes under Windows is an abomination, a truly horrid piece of software, somebody needs to teach those guys at Apple how to code for the Windows platform. Since I'm no longer on Windows I can't make a recommendation, but geez there's gotta be better options out there.

[heiney9]

I would agree Dan.

In fact, I despise iTunes, but iTunes on Windows will be a cluster. The other players I mentioned are musically much better and integrate much better.

H9

[EndersShadow]

I believe all the newer one's ship with the 9001 (unless it's a hi-rez unit). There was a time when you could choose. That looks exactly like the 9001 they had to replace in my NFB-3.

H9

How would I know which one its using?

The player I am referring to is what audio player are you using on the computer? WINAMP, MediaMonkey, iTunes, J-River, etc.

H9

I was planning on iTunes, but am open to suggestions. I need to be able to control it via some sort of remote app for playback, etc. Thats where the issues tend to be from what I have seen.

If you know of a combo, let me know I am not locked into iTunes at all on this one.

[heiney9]

I use a Squeezebox for the main rig and I sit at my computer for the computer rig so I change/select songs from there so I can't help you with what computer player has a remote app.

H9

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

As far as I know there is no way to get the best sound using iTunes on Windows. I may be wrong, but if you're on Windows and want the best sound I think you need to avoid iTunes. This is the main reason I suggested the Mac Mini option - iTunes in the Mac world is actually quite good, you get the remote access you want, and you have several options like Amarra and Audirvana on the Mac platform that all provide excellent, reference sound quality.

I'm not saying it's the only option that gives you what you want, it's just the one I know of.

[EndersShadow]

Dumb question, but can I just install the Mac OS instead of Windows and call it a day? Or will I get screwed because my hardware isnt Apple approved?

I still haven't actually installed anything anywhere so I can adjust the OS if thats in my best interest.

[EndersShadow]

The player I am referring to is what audio player are you using on the computer? WINAMP, MediaMonkey, iTunes, J-River, etc.

H9

H9 lookie what I just found: http://www.mediamonkey.com/addons/browse/item/monkeymote/

[stretchl]

Dumb question, but can I just install the Mac OS instead of Windows and call it a day? Or will I get screwed because my hardware isnt Apple approved?

Just my intuition as I've never tried it, but I'd be shocked if you can install a Mac OS onto any hardware that's non-Apple.

If you do try it, I'll be very interested in the results! :eek:

[FTGV]

As far as I know there is no way to get the best sound using iTunes on Windows. JPlay is said to allow bit perfect output from iTunes on a windows machine but IMO that money would be better spent on the excellent JRiver MC17(soon to 18)player.There are several remote apps available such as RiverMote,MyRiver and a version of monkeymote posted above for J River.It's the one I use on my iPod touch and it works well.

[FTGV]

How would I know which one its using?


.Look for the number on the top of the multipin surface mount IC.However if you are using the USB input the quality of the DIR is of little value unless the USB chips output is converted to SPDIF internally then sent to the DIR instead of preferably
bypassing it entirely and using the more desirable I2S connection directly to the dac chip.

[EndersShadow]

Look for the number on the top of the multipin surface mount IC.However if you are using the USB input the quality of the DIR is of little value unless the USB chips output is converted to SPDIF internally then sent to the DIR instead of preferably
bypassing it entirely and using the more desirable I2S connection directly to the dac chip.

Ok, thats WAAAAYY above my head lol. Here is some info from the manufacture page (located here with some schematics and pics (http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB5/NFB5EN_Tech.htm)). I see some mention maybe of what your talking about in the section I bolded.

__________________________________________________ ________________________
NFB means Non-Feedback.

The NFB-5 applies the newest high-end dual WM8741 which can support up to 24Bit/192KHz input. Similar to other WM8741 designs, the NFB-5 applies Non-feedback ACSS output stage. The dual WM8741 feed to the ACSS output stage without any OPAs so it can achieve very neutral sound quality.

The ACSS is a non-feedback technology made with fully discrete amplifiers. Most people know the global feedback design can offer better specs in test measurements, and non-feedback can't do well in test measurements but can offer better sound for the human's ears. Here is a conflict of the classic circuits. But the ACSS opens a new field, it can offer a least coloration sound which is more neutral with very low distortion and high linearity. So it can retain the dynamics, detail and neutral sound but not sound bright or harsh.

The output buffers are Non-feedback. For low impedance, we applied a diamond output stage which is quite less colored than most conventional circuits.

The DAC is without couple caps to avoid coloration.

The 24/192 USB interface outputs a I2S signal to dual WM8741.

Applied the WM8805 as the SPDIF interface , its sound characteristic is same with the WM8741 which is detail but smooth, and it can support up to 192KHz input. The WM8805 had quite low jitter (50PS),much less than the CS8416 ( 200PS ).

Fully Discrete ACSS headphone amp.

NFB-5 applies the excellent dual WM8741 and excellent analog output stages, but these are not the only keys of the best sound. The power supply is most important. Even applying the best DA chip and the best amp, if matched to a normal power supply, the total sound may still be average or sound musical but can't be neutral and detailed. That is why it is easy to find hi-end grade gears maybe without the best chips or amp stages, but with plenteous dedicated DC supply circuits.

The NFB-5 uses 8 groups of high-quality PSU with dedicated DC supply. Digital and analog voltages each have separately isolated internal power regulations.

The analog power supply is more important for sound reproduce, in NFB-5, the +15V and -15V for the ACSS analog output stages are high speed Discrete PSU. They can offer pure and quick power supply for driving the headphone exactly. The high voltage power supply can drive most headphone from 15 to 600 ohms as well.

Strong power supply. 8 groups high performance PSU built in.


About volume in ACSS circuits:

For a headphone amp, the volume control is very important.

NFB-5 uses ACSS technology, which is very different from conventional technology.

The volume control is is placed at the ACSS modules output, where the output is the current signal, not the voltage signal. The volume control is I/V conversion, and the volume depends on the current (I) conversion to the voltage (V). (Like D/A chips output I/V conversion)

As you can see, ACSS circuits have no gain, as it is a completely different circuit.

The sound quality benefits from I/V conversion volume control. Mark Levinson also knows that current volume control has great benefits, so in their Top End preamp NO.32 volume control, they use many components to change the signal to current signal (I), then through the R-2R network to control the volume, and then change back to voltage signal (V) again. But NFB-5 is simply a more complete work in terms of the current signal, and technically, it is superior to conventional technology.

[FTGV]

I see some mention maybe of what your talking about in the section I bolded.

__________________________________________________ ________________________


The 24/192 USB interface outputs a I2S signal to dual WM8741.

Thats exactly what I was referring to.Since the output of the USB chip is connected in the prefered I2S method directly to the DAC chip the DIR section is effectively bypassed avoiding an unnecessary SPDIF conversion step.

[EndersShadow]

Thats exactly what I was referring to.Since the output of the USB chip is connected in the prefered I2S method directly to the DAC chip the DIR section is effectively bypassed avoiding an unnecessary SPDIF conversion step.

Cool so the DIR chip only matters if using Coaxial or SPDIF is what your telling me correct? If thats the case we are all good since I will be using USB almost exclusively.

[FTGV]

Cool so the DIR chip only matters if using Coaxial or SPDIF is what your telling me correct?.Correct.

[MADGSF]

Enders, the new MAC OSX is for Intel based hardware and you can put it on non-Apple hardware. Not sure how happy Apple is about that but do a search for building a Hackintosh or Blackintosh and you will find several sources of information. I have not done it but have thought about it, FYI you can get OSX from Applie on a USB for about 80.00.

http://www.hackintosh.com/

This has a step by step with a list of the hardware used.

http://www.motherboards.org/gallery/building-blackintosh-let-us-show-you-everything-you-need

[nwohlford]

I'd say based on reading his posts he's still planning on using iTunes if he can get the remote app to work on an ad hoc network under Windows.

I would personally not recommend that approach as iTunes under Windows is an abomination, a truly horrid piece of software, somebody needs to teach those guys at Apple how to code for the Windows platform. Since I'm no longer on Windows I can't make a recommendation, but geez there's gotta be better options out there.

They are not going to write better software for windows. They want to give you a taste of the apple experience, but to get the really thing they will make you buy a Mac.


Enders, the new MAC OSX is for Intel based hardware and you can put it on non-Apple hardware. Not sure how happy Apple is about that but do a search for building a Hackintosh or Blackintosh and you will find several sources of information. I have not done it but have thought about it, FYI you can get OSX from Applie on a USB for about 80.00.

http://www.hackintosh.com/

This has a step by step with a list of the hardware used.

http://www.motherboards.org/gallery/building-blackintosh-let-us-show-you-everything-you-need

Every Apple update may break your "hackintosh", so you have to be very careful. There are whole forums dedicated to what updates are safe to use and what are not. To me it always seemed like a lot of hassle to save a little money (unless you enjoy the part I am calling a hassle).

[EndersShadow]

Correct.

Awesome! Thanks for walking me through that :redface:


They are not going to write better software for windows. They want to give you a taste of the apple experience, but to get the really thing they will make you buy a Mac.

Every Apple update may break your "hackintosh", so you have to be very careful. There are whole forums dedicated to what updates are safe to use and what are not. To me it always seemed like a lot of hassle to save a little money (unless you enjoy the part I am calling a hassle).

I think I will go Windows based since I am just too familiar with the way it works from a hardware and software perspective. I am leary of Apple for the exact reason you mention. I dont want to be constantly troubleshooting this computer once its built. I found a couple apps that look promising and I dont need this to be up and running for a bit so I have time to play around with functionality once the OS is installed.

I ended up modifying the parts list so I figured I would update everyone with the new parts list:

CPU (same as before)
Intel Celeron G530 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116409)

Hard Drive:
Re-using a 320 gig existing one for now, will upgrade to bigger quieter 2.5HDD later

Case:
HTPC-ITX6 (http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/HTPC-ITX6-Silver-Mini-HTPC-aluminum-chassis-HTPC-ITX6-S.htm)

The case is at my house along with the powersupply. I was missing a piece of the 12v AC DC adapter that is being mailed to me as we speak. It is RIDICULOUSLY small. It even surprised me. Its actually smaller than the NFB-5 but just by about 2 inches depth wise. Otherwise the finish and color match identically.

Motherboard (changed)
JetWay JI61G-ITX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153228)

This motherboard has the combination of what I need. When I looked at and held the actual case in my hand I could see there would be an issue with ANY motherboard that had the 24pin connector in the standard location in front of the memory slots. As such this board has the 24 pin toward the back which also will put the Pico PSU close or directly in line with the 80mm fan on the case. The H61 heatsink is also located here so I should be able to keep my case nice and cool.

Its got 4 HDD connectors so I could actuall repurpose this motherboard in another case for a file server or bigger music player if the need arises. It has a CPU and 3 pin fan header as well as HDMI, DVI, VGA and 2 USB 3.0 connectors. The only thing this board is lacking that would have been nice is a eSATA port and optical and coaxial outs, all of which I dont really need in how I will use this board.

Memory
Kingston Value 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139770)

This RAM was choosen primarily because of its low profile. I dont need superfast memory for my application and form trumps speed here for me. Price is in line with other memory of the same size and speed. Manufacture is well known and has a good reputation.

Extra's to be purchase later on:

Aftermarket CPU cooler: SILVERSTONE NT07-1156 90mm CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835220040)

This cooler was choosen because its a replacement for the stock fan which requires no extra mounting bracket. I also hope to undervolt the fan so it spins slower provided the temps of the CPU in the case allow for that.

The other Noctua fan yet to hit the market will be considered once it shows up but I am not sure if it will work given the layout of the caps on the motherboard.

Aftermarket fan: Noctua NF-R8-1800 80mm Case Fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608006)

I have 4 Noctua fans in my computer and they are dead silent. The price for the fan is justified as it will run quieter has rubber mounts to silence vibration as well as adapters to drop its RPM's. I will be playing with the different adapters as well as the bios to balance noise with temps once this is all installed

Noise dampening material: Using some existing Acoustipak (http://www.acoustiproducts.com/en/acoustipack-ultimate.asp) from my computer build where possible to quiet this puppy

Other Misc Extra Parts:

USB cables:

I am still working on deciding what cable to play with USB wise. I am leaning toward either the Wireworld UV cable (which physically seperates the power and data parts of the USB wire internally, or going with just a stock Audioquest Carbon cable so I keep the black color combination going. I havent decided either way yet.

Powercables:

I will be utilizing a Pepster powercable for the NFB-5 that is currently in my possession. I am hoping to find a way to have the computer on the extra battery backup from Uverse that I have lying around. The intent is to possibly run the computer entirely off battery as much as possible, but I dont know. I will play around with that and tweak it as I go :biggrin:

[EndersShadow]

Total cost without the USB cable is ~200 shipped. Keeping the stock Intel heatsink and case fan cost is ~150.

[heiney9]

If you are using the NFB-5 you don't need a USB cable that seperate power and data since you aren't powering the NFB-5 with the cable.

H9

[EndersShadow]

If you are using the NFB-5 you don't need a USB cable that seperate power and data since you aren't powering the NFB-5 with the cable.

H9

I know, I just like the concept :biggrin:. That and its about the same price or even a bit cheaper than the Carbon.

USB cable swapping time :wink:

[heiney9]

USB cable swapping time :wink:

If they are the same length and built well, it won't make a single bit of difference. If funds are tight focus that $$$ where it can be better utilized.

Unless of course you just want to stare at the pretty cable :razz::biggrin:

I have found no real difference between an inexpensive well made USB cable vs. a boutique cable that is of the similar construction. And as you know I am a BIG cable believer.

H9

[newrival]

ES,

I agree that iTunes is a poor frontend for a system. If you want to do it on the cheap, get VLC Player (which actually sounds quite good, and is super lightweight) and purchase the VLC pro app (i think it was $3) to control it with your iphone/ipad/ipod touch.

It will control all computers on your network running VLC, and will allow you to brose all folders on attached /discoverable computers on your network.

This is what I use on my office setup and it works great. the fact that it is lightweight and free of a showy GUI is key to me. And the app has been flawless for me.

[heiney9]

Does VLC have a plug-in (ASIO4ALL) to bypass all the Windows crap it makes the signal go through before output?

H9

[EndersShadow]

ES,

I agree that iTunes is a poor frontend for a system. If you want to do it on the cheap, get VLC Player (which actually sounds quite good, and is super lightweight) and purchase the VLC pro app (i think it was $3) to control it with your iphone/ipad/ipod touch.

It will control all computers on your network running VLC, and will allow you to brose all folders on attached /discoverable computers on your network.

This is what I use on my office setup and it works great. the fact that it is lightweight and free of a showy GUI is key to me. And the app has been flawless for me.

Looking into it but....


Does VLC have a plug-in (ASIO4ALL) to bypass all the Windows crap it makes the signal go through before output?

H9


Crackles, pops, hizzes and other audio anomalies

If you hear some unwanted audio problems you can try another audio output module to see if that solves the issue. Open Settings -> Preferences... and then choosing Audio -> Output module (remember to tick Advanced options box). There are multiple output modules you can use for audio. DirectX and Win32 waveOut should work in most cases. Unfortunately there isn't an ASIO support in VLC.
Crackles, pops, hizzes and other audio anomalies with SPDIF passthrough

SPDIF passthrough of Dolby Digital (AC3) and DTS audiotracks don't work with all soundcards. Win32 waveOut output module should work better with SPDIF and you can also try latest Nightly builds with Win32 waveOut.
I don't hear dialog, conversations etc. while playing 5.1 audio

Make sure you have select proper speaker setup from Windows audio settings or from soundcard control panel. If you have done so, make sure VLC also has right settings. Audio -> Audio Device to select proper speaker settings.
How do I adjust audio delay?

During playback you can press Ctrl + k or Ctrl + l to adjust audio delay (adjust step is 50 ms).
(Graphical) user interface related questions and problems

Not sure if any of the other output modes will be similar in quality. NewRival how do you have it setup?

[heiney9]

If it doesn't have ASIO4ALL or a similar output, forget it because you will be outputting a contaminated signal.

You've worked hard to assemble a rig, don't compromise at the last second with a crappy media/source player. THIS IS WHY so many people think computer audio sounds poor, it's not an easy thing to assemble or understand, but if done correctly it can sould stellar.

H9

[Face]

You can say I'm a fan of Nocua too. http://i.imgur.com/OUuVU.jpg

[EndersShadow]

You can say I'm a fan of Nocua too. http://i.imgur.com/OUuVU.jpg

Hehehe... from one to another (my old case but still have the same fans :smile:)

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/Computer%20pics/001.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/Computer%20pics/002.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/Computer%20pics/001.jpg

[EndersShadow]

If it doesn't have ASIO4ALL or a similar output, forget it because you will be outputting a contaminated signal.

You've worked hard to assemble a rig, don't compromise at the last second with a crappy media/source player. THIS IS WHY so many people think computer audio sounds poor, it's not an easy thing to assemble or understand, but if done correctly it can sould stellar.

H9

Agreed, not willing to compromise sound quality after all this work. There has to be a way and I will find it :wink:

[EndersShadow]

Found some info on XMBC that might be my ticket:

They apparently have a iPhone app that allows playback: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=128279

And they apparently have a way enable WASAPI playback for audio files: http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2010/06/25/guide-setting-up-bitstreaming-with-your-windows-7-htpc-xbmc-using-dsplayer/


One of my goals is to get the best audio and video possible using XBMC, both for music only files and for video files. The best audio for music requires either an ASIO or WASAPI driver, so as to bypass the resampling by Windows to get bit-perfect audio. For video the goal is to pass TrueHD and DTS MA unmolested by bitstreaming them to my preamp/processor. The former can be done using a patch developed by ArtVandelae and specifying in advancedsettings that audio only files should be played using DVDPlayer. Then one can set the audio output as WASAPI. The latter can be achieved by using DSPlayer, as Damian shows in this tutorial.

My question: whether there exists a build or a means to accomplish both goals, video playback with bitstreamed DTS MA and TrueHD, and audio playback with bit-perfect output. I?d love to read that it can be done.

[newrival]

Here is the software for VLC to bypass Windows kMixer, etc: http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm
Its called Virtual Audio Cables (VAC)

And here is a thread with one users experience:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/221237/asio4all-explanation

[EndersShadow]

Here is the software for VLC to bypass Windows kMixer, etc: http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm
Its called Virtual Audio Cables (VAC)

And here is a thread with one users experience:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/221237/asio4all-explanation

I will take a look for sure. In the interum I found what might be the best solution: XBMC

I was aware of this program before (had an older version installed on my main PC and laptop to play with) and that it played FLAC but didnt do too much more research. They now have a remote app for the iOS devices that works quite well (have it on my iPhone testing on my main PC right now). If this works right it might be just what I go with overall since XBMC can be installed using Linux as the OS which would be awesome. Even if I have to install Win 7 and run XBMC over the top it still would be worth it IMHO.

I just installed XBMC's newest build (Eden) on my computer and its totally working with WASAPI playback on the NFB-5 so I know that all works. I have some slight kinks to work out with the app on the phone as it wont show my music library. I have a feeling thats because currently the FLAC library is on a different drive than the XBMC install and that the app cant "see" it. I have a question in to the guys who made the app about that.

I also have to ensure it will work over an ad-hoc network but I am pretty sure it will. The interface is pretty slick too.

Other than that XBMC might just be what I need.

Here is a link to a thread about the app. http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=128279

[EndersShadow]

Someone on AVS linked me to this video: http://youtu.be/afPIeGlq-xI

He's running XBMC and the same app I am using just on his Android phone

[newrival]

I used to run XBMC as a front end to my HTPC. I ended up switching to Boxee (which is XBMC based. At the time there were so many XBMC "distros" or GUIs it made the program fun to tweak, but that meant the support was very sparse. And most had bugs and little instabilities. Boxee had great support and development (and went on to create their own hardware, the Boxee Box). What the XMBC landscape is like these days, I don't know. Just be aware that with open source there comes great flexibility, but not without it's headaches.

And I'm certainly not trying to disuade from XBMC, I just know you said this was your work/office setup, and I don't know what kind of business your in, but for me, I have enough distractions keeping me from being creative and/or productive that I don't want to looking for the latest patch, waiting for the current bug fix, or entering lines of code. Also, I run memory intensive software all day on two computers, so a lean software is necessary for me, as even running iTunes could add an hour to a full render that I could be running. This is just my perspective, I am sure you will pick what is best for you.

[EndersShadow]

I used to run XBMC as a front end to my HTPC. I ended up switching to Boxee (which is XBMC based. At the time there were so many XBMC "distros" or GUIs it made the program fun to tweak, but that meant the support was very sparse. And most had bugs and little instabilities. Boxee had great support and development (and went on to create their own hardware, the Boxee Box). What the XMBC landscape is like these days, I don't know. Just be aware that with open source there comes great flexibility, but not without it's headaches.

Understand that for sure. I think its pretty stable now but will check out Boxee just for giggles anyway. The remote app worked great last night with everything while I was messing with things so hopefully I will be good to go.

[EndersShadow]

I bought my components earlier this morning and they are on their way. I think I did good.

I went with the following:

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-A75N-USB3 (http://www.directron.com/gaa75nusb3.html) (good review here (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/mini-itx-socket-fm1_9.html))

I went with this motherboard as it uses good parts from a trusted brand. I read LOTS of reviews of ASRock boards (both H67, H61, H77, FM1) and while some are positive there were some constant issues with them and some trusted sources said they were iffy at times. I was more familiar with ASUS but that board wouldnt work given its 24 pin connectors location. Given I dont want to mess around I decided this board was a better choice and its got just about everything I wanted.

As a side bonus it also will work with the Streamcom FC8 (http://www.shop.perfecthometheater.com/HTPC-FC8-OD-Black-Mini-HTPC-aluminum-chassis-HTPC-FC8-OD-B.htm) case I in all likelyhood may move this system into sometime soon so I can go totally passive. It will depend on how this system sounds noise wise but I really like the Streamcom case. Its not worth returning my current case at the present time for the Streamcom as I dont have the cash for it.

CPU: AMD A4-Series A4-3400 (http://www.directron.com/ad3400ojhxbox.html)

In looking at this CPU v the Pentium G530 in this link (http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/2700/9/cpu-shoot-out-intel-atom-d2700-vs-amd-e-450-benchmarks-60-min-audio-to-flac-fpflac) the A4-3400 bests it in just about all the tests they ran, especially the FLAC test. Given that and that Windows 7 goes back to more single core usage I decided to go with this CPU. It also should allow me to use a blu-ray player and playback video with no issues on my TV (if I decided to do that later on) as well as Netflix and Youtube.

Memory: Kingston HyperX LoVo 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600MHz (http://www.directron.com/khx1600d3k24gx.html)

This memory is more than likely overkill for this particular setup but since it wasnt too expensive and is also low voltage I thought it would be worth it. I checked to ensure it is listed as compatible on Gigabytes website. It is also 30mm tall so I shouldnt have any issues with it running into the 3.5 HDD installed in my case.

I am going to hope the stock heatsink will be under 40mm tall but we will see. If not I was planning on buying the SILVERSTONE NT07-AM2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835220030) as it will more than fit. I also plan to replace the stock 80mm fcase fan with a Noctua 80mm fan (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608006).

Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated.

[EndersShadow]

^Update to above. The Gigabyte board was out of stock at the vendor I ordered it from. I ended up cancelling that order and ordering from another vendor. I took the suggestion at the same time to upgrade to the A6-3500 2.1 triple core CPU at the same time. All other parts remain the same.

Updated list below:

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-A75N-USB3 (http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4030#ov) (good review here (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/mini-itx-socket-fm1_9.html))
CPU: AMD A5-3500 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103951&Tpk=a6-3500) (good reason to upgrade here here (http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333378/amd-llano-the-great-htpc-chip/720#post_21125686))
Memory: Kingston HyperX LoVo 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR3 1600MHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104176)

[EndersShadow]

Here are some shots of the computer case with the NFB-5 headphone amp

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/BE2274A5-9D2A-4E86-9611-FFE7AB043E6A-8387-00000C523E699FA9.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/E0D4DC58-0777-4B20-82E3-F03D313AF46D-8387-00000C5244D58D11.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/19983A6D-14E3-4069-9F60-606D0211A268-8387-00000C5237F1C909.jpg

[EndersShadow]

Got in some of the parts today (CPU and Motherboard). So of course I had to mock things up a bit.

Parts:
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/8E55EA49-BE23-4C8C-96D8-B4E64D29F74E-10981-00000F3510AEB804.jpg

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/6EA2FDA6-7527-4C63-B434-A2648B3DB173-10981-00000F3508D1D31C.jpg

I am glad I mocked it up because I know now I cant use the stock heatsink. Its simply too tall as shown in the pics below. I have decided to go with the Silverstone NT07-AM2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835220030) heatsink because unlike some of the other low profile options, I can use a different fan with it if I want. I also will be replacing the stock 80mm fan with a Noctua (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608006) one.

Here are the pics:

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/9064BBC1-A3F5-463A-94E8-E1A8ADF73C1E-10981-00000F355D5CE7CA.jpg

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/A8299501-3C28-4EB4-A6FF-B5AA799DA3D2-10981-00000F36FBF376F7.jpg

For reference here is the entire computer case next to a standard CD case

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/695FC66D-00A3-4EF5-A100-0579AA0CC8CC-10981-00000F37109E56D9.jpg

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/95BAB13F-0A62-488D-8E25-7A3AF25C8E61-10981-00000F371C9B80AA.jpg

As you can see, the HDD wont work with the heatsink as even with the HDD directly stacked on top its a good 5mm to tall.

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/AFD21516-6684-42EA-809D-D325DD2BEDF4-10981-00000F398D0AEB34.jpg

Masterchief approves!

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/25C0004E-E630-4040-A242-0093ECBB8038-10981-00000F36EA55093A.jpg

[Habanero Monk]

I had a friend finally put together a music computer. Using the Foxconn nettop with 500 GB laptop drive, Windows 7, J River, and Focusrite USB DAC. Did everything for less $340 and the focusrite sounds great.

[TNHNDYMAN]

Looking good Dan. Hope you get the parts to make it all fit right. Finally got the head unit installed today. Everything works. Need to read the manual though. Tried the speakers I bought. Wrong size so I'm still working on that part.

[EndersShadow]

Looking good Dan. Hope you get the parts to make it all fit right. Finally got the head unit installed today. Everything works. Need to read the manual though. Tried the speakers I bought. Wrong size so I'm still working on that part.

Awesome! I am glad it got hooked up and is working good!

With regards to my project, LOL, well been having "fun" with memory. The first set I bought was too low voltage (1.3) to get it to boot, despite that model being on the manufactures "Approved memory list". Took it to a buddies house and used some of his memory. Booted just fine. Stopped by Fry's and bought some higher voltage memory (1.5v which is the board default) last night on my way home from his place.

Woke up this morning and installed it, no joy. So I am waiting for him to wake up so I can check again what memory he was using (forget if it was 1333 or 1600) so I can try some other memory for a third time :sad:. This is getting a bit ridiculous!

The stock heatsink is too tall (which I was pretty sure of from the get-go, so I still need to replace that but wont be able to order the NT07-AM2 till next Friday. Will also order the Noctua case fan as well.

I just want to get it to boot and stay on at this point.

[EndersShadow]

Spent my morning at Fry's and still no luck.

Gigabyte as stated said my first set of memory had too low a voltage. Ironically after checking their memory compatibility list (found here (http://download.gigabyte.us/FileList/Memory/mb_memory_ga-a75n-usb3.pdf)) you will note that their is an entry under the Kingston section titled KHX1600C9D3LK2/4GX. Which just so happens to be the memory they said wouldnt work.... interesting right.

Well I went to Fry's and purchased a set of Corsair 2x2 gig DDR3 1600 memory (model number: CML4GX3M2A1600C9 (http://www.frys.com/product/6686714?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG)). Still wouldn't boot. Went to Fry's again this time with the actual computer in my hands and exchanged it for 2x2 gig of Corsair DDR3 1333 memory (model: CMV4GX3M2A133C9 (http://www.frys.com/search?search_type=regular&sqxts=1&query_string=CMV4GX3M2A1333C9&submit.x=22&submit.y=8&cat=0)). This memory is also on the approved list.

Still no post.

Been talking to Gigabyte about this since the issue started so they should now RMA the board and replace it with a new one. Otherwise there will be some problems.

[EndersShadow]

Thought I would update everyone on the status of the build.

The Gigabyte board ended up being bad and had to be RMA'd. I have yet to order the replacement board which will be the ASRock A75M-ITX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157273). I also will be ordering a new CPU heatsink as the stock one is about 4mm to tall. It is the SILVERSTONE NT07-AM2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835220030). I will be replacing the stock case fan as well with a Noctua NF-R8 PWM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608028)since the motherboard supports PWM fans. I also hope to replace the Silverstone fan on the heatsink later on with one of these as well.

I had to RMA the memory as well and now have a 2 sticks of CORSAIR 2GB DDR3 1333 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145278) waiting for the parts to get here.

The plan is to order all the parts on the 19th.

[Drenis]

Forgive me as I'm a bit late to the thread updates. I'm shocked to hear about the gigabyte board. Especially their memory list. Are they skipping steps now and just assuming? Unreal... I've been impressed with some Asus boards as of late. I would go Asus over Asrock if it were my build.

Also, why not go 2.5"HDD instead?

Looks slick so far. Let me know if I can help in anyway.

[EndersShadow]

The ASRock board is the ONLY board I can find that's FM1 and mini itx with the 24 pin located in the right position. I also prefer ASUS but can't this time around. What makes me feel a bit better is that the AMD A-6 3500 and that ASRock board are favorites of the xmbc crowd so it shouldn't have any problems.

I was also very disappointed in Gigabyte as I went out of my way to buy that board specifically because it was supposed to be better.

I am going 3.5 on the HDD for now to save cash as I have a 320 gig on hand. Come black Friday or Christmas I hope to upgrade to a 2-3 TB 2.5 HDD

P.S. I have run ASUS exclusively until now for both my motherboards and gpu's. Great company!

[EndersShadow]

I take that back Drenis. There is 1 offering from Asus, the F1A75-I DELUXE that would work and work well. However its 149.99 at the ONLY place I can find it at (e-cost) that is an authorized vendor.

Personally I prefer the savings and going with the ASRock given its much easier to find (for now). That might change when it comes time to order though....

[Clipdat]

P.S. I have run ASUS exclusively until now for both my motherboards and gpu's. Great company!

Indeed! My wife has an ASUS laptop that has literally given her zero issues since she bought it and is running strong year after year. Also their higher end gaming motherboards are drool-worthy.

[EndersShadow]

Indeed! My wife has an ASUS laptop that has literally given her zero issues since she bought it and is running strong year after year. Also their higher end gaming motherboards are drool-worthy.

Been running Asus parts since I was 16 (13 years ago :biggrin:). My first computer had a graphic card with the then new tech of S-Video out :eek:.

So far not only have I run Asus but I bought a board from them a couple years back that had issues, sent it in to be checked out and that same board is still running strong 4 years later. I also purchased a refurb Asus board (same make as the one that went into the shop) from newegg and had 0 problems with it until I sold it.

My dad is also running an Asus board and GPU in his computer I built him :smile:. The only thing I go back and forth on is Intel v. AMD. I like Intels performance but the pairing of AMD chips with ATI (now AMD) GPU's is pretty sweet.

So far I have stayed away from Nvidia.

[KiTsuNe]

I created something pretty similar to this.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.424145725734.196933.501580734&type=3

It's roughly the same size as the build you're doing. Its complete overkill for your application but I'm able to power and run an i7 2600k in my HTPC haha.

I also did a dreamcast one as well.


Looking at it now, I can swap the i7 out for an i3 35w cpu.
you can find a small dac to fit in the case as well.(If price doesnt matter http://www.amazon.com/Arcam-rPAC-USB-Headphone-DAC/dp/B007NXM3K2) Run the mobo's USB header into the DAC and the dac into this class T amp
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-385
and run binding posts into that.
Tap everything into the 12v line of the psu on the computer with resistors if needed.
You now have an all in one unit. The only thing most will probably gripe about on this is that the PSU isnt linear or clean enough for them but I know it will work haha.

I would try running geexbox if you're looking at just media. Very nice interface.

[EndersShadow]

I created something pretty similar to this.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.424145725734.196933.501580734&type=3

It's roughly the same size as the build you're doing. Its complete overkill for your application but I'm able to power and run an i7 2600k in my HTPC haha.

I also did a dreamcast one as well.


Looking at it now, I can swap the i7 out for an i3 35w cpu.
you can find a small dac to fit in the case as well.(If price doesnt matter http://www.amazon.com/Arcam-rPAC-USB-Headphone-DAC/dp/B007NXM3K2) Run the mobo's USB header into the DAC and the dac into this class T amp
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-385
and run binding posts into that.
Tap everything into the 12v line of the psu on the computer with resistors if needed.
You now have an all in one unit. The only thing most will probably gripe about on this is that the PSU isnt linear or clean enough for them but I know it will work haha.

I would try running geexbox if you're looking at just media. Very nice interface.

I have actually seen that PC elsewhere, its pretty cool!

My entire build is pretty much together at this point unless something breaks again. It too is total overkill given my application however this may also come to live as a HTPC in my main rig at a later date.

The computer will be connected via USB to the Audio GD NFB-5 USB DAC/headphone amp I got. I dont think I want to change from this as its a beast of a machine and I dont mind it being as big as the computer itself and almost 2x heavier :biggrin:. This headphone amp will drive just about ANY headphone I want and eventually this may become the basis for my 2 channel system since the DAC has fixed or variable outputs so I can use it as a pre (assuming I dont have any other sources). Later on I can turn it back to fixed and just make it a straight DAC if I want to.

[gigbyt]

Ive always wanted to try this out but never have the time to learn enough about how to do it properly.

[EndersShadow]

Ive always wanted to try this out but never have the time to learn enough about how to do it properly.

Someone's in a hurry to reach 100 posts. Wonder what your trying to sell or buy

[EndersShadow]

Well its been on the back burner, but finally got in a package today that hopefully will turn into a full fledged computer tonight when I get home

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/90522FE7-000E-4662-A673-74328ED4D92E-5271-0000073222E5BCFA.jpg

Got a 4 pin extender so I can make the cables super tidy. The CPU Heatsink looks quite nice and low profile so that should be good and the Noctua fan should make this thing just about totally silent.

I plan to see if another Noctua fan can replace the Silverstone one as well as I like the noise profile of them better. But I am going to keep it stock to start with and see how loud it is.

[EndersShadow]

I have just about F$%$ing had it. The computer starts to boot but then wont POST. The CPU fan starts to twist and goes about 1/2 inch and then stops. At this point I am thinking its the Pico PSU I purchased but I am not sure. Time for more troubleshooting at Frys :sad:. Thankfully they have a Pico PSU in stock there as well (NOT the same one) for about the same price so if that one works I know its the PSU.

[TNHNDYMAN]

sorry for you troubles Dan. This thing must be driving you insanse.

Quick tip- Do NOT pick up a hammer when mad at a machine, it always seems to get more expensive for me at least. :)

[cnh]

Been running Asus parts since I was 16 (13 years ago :biggrin:). My first computer had a graphic card with the then new tech of S-Video out :eek:.

So far not only have I run Asus but I bought a board from them a couple years back that had issues, sent it in to be checked out and that same board is still running strong 4 years later. I also purchased a refurb Asus board (same make as the one that went into the shop) from newegg and had 0 problems with it until I sold it.

My dad is also running an Asus board and GPU in his computer I built him :smile:. The only thing I go back and forth on is Intel v. AMD. I like Intels performance but the pairing of AMD chips with ATI (now AMD) GPU's is pretty sweet.

So far I have stayed away from Nvidia.

Man, if you're that young I could be your father! lol You're also in that generation of dudes who tinker with the "insides" of a computer, where as I came of age with 5+" floppies and super fast 8 Mghz processors and 20 MG hard drives and an MS-DOS systems and partitions that would "cripple" any tweaker who did not have an M.S. in Engineering--and "crashed" "regularly"! lol

cnh

[EndersShadow]

Man, if you're that young I could be your father! lol You're also in that generation of dudes who tinker with the "insides" of a computer, where as I came of age with 5+" floppies and super fast 8 Mghz processors and 20 MG hard drives and an MS-DOS systems and partitions that would "cripple" any tweaker who did not have an M.S. in Engineering--and "crashed" "regularly"! lol

cnh

Hehehe, well I am only 29 :eek:. I am familiar with those type computers of which to refer to. My first computer in the house was a Windows 98 machine and I still regularly play a MS-DOS game called One Must Fall as well as enjoyed Magic Carpet as well.

I do indeed tinker with the insides of my computer :smile:. Not as much now as a copule years back.

I do intend on sleeving the cables in this system once I finally get it all up and running.

I contacted the vendor of the Powersupply and they also believe it to be bad and said return it for a refund. I am looking at going to Frys tonight to purchase this Pico PSU which should do the same thing and hopefully works right out of the box.

http://www.frys.com/product/5974914?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Here are some pics and a video of how it all looks.

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/8D6BE83F-0AAA-47CC-9CEF-34AF20FF8A1F-5271-00000746A86F0597.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/273FE4E6-82BC-46C7-B438-40FA0BA2143D-5271-00000746BEABDBF9.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/8CBE1041-384C-44FD-899E-79E814936D57-5271-00000746DA0D9635.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/9C5CEEB1-D15C-43A1-99E0-67199EB51BF8-5271-0000074762927A9A.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/D34DB3C7-ED3E-4050-A1C7-864791DE043C-2946-00000482B6CD74DD.jpg


Here is a video of it in action:

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/th_F395C0B0-90E1-486D-A2C3-FA998C87329A-5271-00000747C43B1E11.jpg (http://s715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/?action=view&current=F395C0B0-90E1-486D-A2C3-FA998C87329A-5271-00000747C43B1E11.mp4)

[EndersShadow]

So I seriously cant win.

It boots, I was working through some standard cable management just to get everything up and running. Working great. I went to install the HDD cage and BOOM, it all goes up in smoke. The HDD cage which is configured to handle a 3.5" HDD hits the new CPU heatsink (which is one of the smallest ones on the market to boot). I need about 2-3mm min of clearance. So I need to figure something out to modify the existing part which either requires one of two options:

A: Fabricating a entirely new hdd cage which handles a slot loading optical drive, and a 2.5" HDD up top and another 2.5" HDD on the bottom
B: Removing the option of having a 3.5" HDD entirely by straight up cutting the brackets off.

At this point I am simply going to not install the HDD cage, put the top back on and run it without so I can see what temps look like as well as overall power draw.

[Drenis]

Sounds like you need a dremel.

All in all, that sucks.

[EndersShadow]

Sounds like you need a dremel.

All in all, that sucks.

Ha Ha Drenis :razz:.

My sis has a dremel so I could hack the needed clearence out no problem. Here's the rub, I prefer to not destroy a good HDD cage and personally would rather find a way to fab a new one that gives me the ability to add 2 HDD's, even if they are 2.5" HDD's rather than entirely remove the bottom section of the cage to make it fit.

There might even be enough space to actually put 2 2.5" HDD's side by side since its the height thats the issue, not the overall width.

The section causing the issues are the two brackets that hang down from the middle of the case in this pic:

76687

[codyc1ark]

I do not have time to read your whole thread, but from the last few posts all I have to say is...

Good.

All I have time to do is listen to some 703's. :cheesygrin:

[EndersShadow]

I do not have time to read your whole thread, but from the last few posts all I have to say is...

Good.

All I have time to do is listen to some 703's. :cheesygrin:

LOL... you somewhat suck. Hope your home and enjoying yourself after your last couple weeks out of town.

[Drenis]

Stop being a sissy and mod it!:razz:

[codyc1ark]

LOL... you somewhat suck. Hope your home and enjoying yourself after your last couple weeks out of town.

No, I totally suck!

[EndersShadow]

Stop being a sissy and mod it!:razz:

See below Drenis :razz:

This morning just for giggles I installed the quieter Noctua fan on the Silverstone NT-07 heatsink. I used Artic Silver 5 rather than the Silverstone CPU paste. The temps IMHO sucked according to the BIOS. It was much quieter but with no stress at all the CPU was sitting at around 57C. The motherboard was much cooler at around 30-47C. The noise overall was somewhat quiet but I know I can do better. I do plan on putting noise dampening material on the entire top portion of the case (not covering the vent holes though). That should help some. I also will put some down along the bottom of the case, but need to wait until I get everything mounted to do that as I may mod things to put them in places they weren't meant to go.

So the Silverstone heatsink will be going back to newegg as I need something better. Unfortunately the go to heatsink to get good temps is the Scythe "Big Shuriken 2" (http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/cpu/120/scbsk2000_index.html) which is 58mm tall so that more than likely is out of the running.

Noctua just literally came to market (2 days ago) with a production model low heatsink that will work. The Noctua NH-L9 (http://www.legitreviews.com/news/14364/). I refered to that heatsink earlier when it was unveiled as an option. It is exactly the same form factor and height as the Silverstone heatsink, however it uses heatpipes rather than the direct contact method used by the Silverstone model so IMHO it should give me better temps. Plus it comes with a Noctua fan that will be very quiet even at high RPM's. It is right about how much the Silvertone heatsink cost + the cost of a 80mm Noctua fan replacement. Its also got a 6 year warranty which is pretty nice!

If the Noctua can keep the temps reasonable in this case then I can simply cut some of the 3.5" hdd off leaving enough to mount a 2.5" Hdd later on by the suspension method.

If that doesnt work, the decision is going to likely be to just remove the entire 3.5mm bracket and go with just one 2.5" HDD. Doing that might just allow the Scythe
"Big Shuriken 2" to fit but man would it be a tight fit.

For now I will be putting the stock AMD heatsink back on just for giggles to look at temps and see how good or bad the Silverstone model did.

P.S. I realize the temp in the BIOS isnt the true T Max but without a HDD attached with an OS installed so I can use CPU-Z to see them, its the only guage I have.

[EndersShadow]

To give you an idea just how massive the Sycthe heatsink is, here is a pic of it on my exact motherboard for comparison.

P.S. this is taken from someone else :smile:

http://i.imgur.com/SOWm0.jpg

And another:

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/jj523/Takkiedroid/6648eccd.jpg

[Clipdat]

Needs a bigger fan.

[EndersShadow]

In talking with some guys that are building small PC's like this for a living, they are telling me the temps in the BIOS are accurate, but not standard idle/load temps.

It appears that when in the BIOS that the BIOS itself is running Busy and wait loops which max out the cores on the CPU. So the temps you see there are closer to max temps at load rather than idle temps. Once you've booted into Windows the loops obviously stop and the temps drop drastically to more realistic "idle" temps.

So as a result I am going to install Win 7 on the 3.5" HDD I have and just run that outside the case so I can get a better handle on the temps.

In other news, the Noctua heatsink is not compatible with this particular Mini-ITX board due to layout issues...... of course it would be the only ITX FM1 board out of the list to have that problem lol....

So if nothing else I am going to wait and see what the "true" temps are via CPU-Z in Win 7 and then decided if the heatsink stays, I try and replace it with something else.

Eitherway I will be doing tests with the Silverstone case fan on it as well as the Noctua for comparisons. The screws to mount the fan to the heatsink are kinda weird so getting the Noctua fan to stay put would be interesting and require some modding, but it may well be worth it.

[EndersShadow]

So I mocked up how big a standard 2.5" HDD will be and it looks like I should be able to notch the existing 3.5" bracket and still be able to fit one if not 2 2.5" drives suspended under it in the future. In the meantime I plan to purchase a refurbished 640 gig WD Blue 2.5" drive that honestly should be the only drive I ever need.

I got it booting with the 3.5" HDD sitting outside the case and the temps are MUCH more in line with what I was expecting. I still have some tweaking to do but the noise is a bit less (still want to test the Noctua as the CPU fan as its quieter than the CPU fan). I know the temps will jump when I put the modded HDD bracket back in place due to a bit more restrictive airflow but I am ok with that.

I also still need to cover as much of that HDD bracket as possible with noise dampening material, as well as the entire U of the top of the case and as much as possible under and around the motherboard within reason. Also given how the case fan mounts I cannot use the rubber silence mounts Noctua gives you, so instead I plan to purchase a rubber 80mm fan gasket that should help keep vibrations from making noise as well. That should help to further silence this puppy and make it a almost noiseless computer. Right now sitting about 1 foot from me you can hear it, but I am hopeful I can tame that small amount of noise.

Here are what temps were upon booting:
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/idle.jpg

Here is the wattage when just running Windows 7 with no real stress (which is what it will be like mostly since its going to be just streaming FLAC to my computer via XBMC. I have a 150 watt powersupply so this is a good number :smile:. The wattage jumped to a whole 75 when the CPU fan spins up upon boot :biggrin:

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/44351996-0331-47C8-B12D-9A9DD219FF3F-6203-000008C5B55A3E17.jpg

[EndersShadow]

Got an awesome email from newegg today with a ridiculous sale: 2.5" 5400 rpm 8gig cache 1 TB Samsung Spinpoint (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152291) for 70 bucks no shipping! So I ordered one and hope to have it here next week.

I will be modding the 3.5" HDD brackets on Sunday using my sis's dremel so I can get the bracket mounted back in the case in advance of getting my new HDD. I also am looking at buying some black spray paint so I can paint the backplate insert on the computer which is currently a shiny cheap silver and doesnt go well with the overall black color of the case and all components.

[EndersShadow]

In advance of our family gathering I kept trying to figure out how I would see what section I needed to cut off the HDD bracket to there was clearance for the fan. My wife had the brilliant idea to use some of the Halloween makeup on the sides of the fan to mark on the HDD bracket where I needed to cut. So I covered it with blue painters tape and away we went. Worked beautifully!

Today we got together as a family to hang out. My sister brought her Dremel... but forgot the metal cutting tool. Not to worry my dad had a hacksaw and a metal file so I had to go old school. The cut isnt perfect but I am not too particularly worried, it fits over the fan with no problem and with a bit of black spray paint (or re-powder coating it) you wont be able to tell anyway.

In addition I am talking to a guy on the Carver forum who is hopefully hooking me up with some free powder coating so I can get the silver back-plate on the computer flat black like the rest of the computer so you dont notice it that much. I may or may not inquire about re-powder coating the HDD cage at the same time so it looks professional :smile:

Pics below.

The makeup we used:

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/F86D961E-918E-49BC-AAD5-54A618636A16-6625-00000A520231254A.jpg

The part marked up and ready for cutting:

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/471E6451-995B-4AE8-AF12-0059D73934A8-6625-00000A5211944839.jpg

The section marked is gone!

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/81E69F54-4BCD-46C4-BFA0-679E5FE31A06-6625-00000A5EB950FE5F.jpg

What I need to get powder coated

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/FC596184-DA40-4563-AA5A-AE039089F04E-6878-00000A5FC5AD2818-1.jpg

My new HDD comes in on Tuesday it looks like.

Items still left on my to-do list in no particular order and not all will be done before its put into use:

1. Noise dampening material throughout the case
2. Purchase Rubber fan bracket for 80mm fan
3. Purchase internal USB header to USB cord
4. Purchase USB wireless card with antenna
5. Purchase slot-loading blu-ray drive
6. Purchase 80mm Noctua NF-8 PWM fan for CPU heatsink and find way to install on heatsink

[EndersShadow]

Got in my new 2.5" HDD today. Spent the evening doing the following:

1. Creating a system image on a external USB drive (which required a drive to my parents to get a 3rd HDD and moving 250 gigs off it to my main computer and then removing from the drive to be safe)
2. Creating a bootable USB Win 7 install disc (just good to have IMHO)
3. Turning back on Legacy USB support in BIOS so I can use the USB 3.0 ports with 2.0 devices (was an idiot when I turned that off :rolleyes:)
4. Using the USB boot drive to access the System Image Repair (had a bunch of issues, wont list them but were many lol)
5. Put the old system image on the new 2.5" drive

This is where I am now. Still left to do are the following:

6. Expand the partition on the new HDD to the full drive
7. Wipe 3.5" HDD and re-install in external HDD case
8. Transfer combined FLAC & MP3 library from main PC to external HDD (I dont have 2 Ethernet connections in my office or I would just transfer directly)
9. Transfer combined FLAC & MP3 library from external HDD to new 2.5" HDD
10. Wipe parents external USB drive
11. Transfer files from main computer back to parents external USB Drive
12. Sleep

For those interested here are some guides I found VERY useful

How To: Install Windows 7 from a USB Key! (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/howtos/how_to_install_windows_7_beta_a_usb_key)
How to transfer your OS to your new SSD drive (http://apcmag.com/how-to-transfer-your-os-to-your-new-ssd-drive.htm)
Error message fix for issue I ran into (Windows image restore (Error code 0x80070057; "the parameter is incorrect"))

[EndersShadow]

So quick update while I have time.

The new Noctua cooler came in. I talked with the manufacture and was told the backplate wouldnt fit but I could use some spacers and it should work ok if I didnt overtighten things. So I went to Ace hardware and purchase 8 o-rings that would work as spacers (in case I needed 2 per screw). I tried just 1 and there was too much play with the cooler, so I put 2 on and it works Great. Pic below of my ghetto solution at a cost of 2.97 :biggrin:

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/EA5F80AE-4CCD-47C0-99D1-E6890C5DC004-6247-000006EA1CE381B3.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/15AD4117-A0BD-42C8-B867-CD72974E198C-6247-000006EA226919D7.jpg

Then I installed everything and made sure it would boot, and SUCCESS! Next up is to see how the HDD bracket fits... and of course its barely touching. So I have to notch a bit more off but thats ok.

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/2DB324B2-10DE-49F7-9792-3C8699EA553F-6247-000006E9E574E137.jpg

I also checked and I have enough space to mount another 2.5 HDD from the remaining space of the 3.5 drive and I can suspend it which is the best way to remove noise from the system. Some pics of how that would look at below:

http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/04459CAE-6994-4399-88B5-A1D9E21AE7F2-6247-000006E9EFFEBAB0.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/30AE6119-B3B8-48E0-A903-D49E626C3AB7-6247-000006E9D932D592.jpg
http://i715.photobucket.com/albums/ww153/n00bWantingToLearn/HTPC/54B8EC70-7735-4686-A4A3-2A63556883A4-6247-000006E92AB3CED4.jpg

On Sunday I plan to Dremel the remaining holes for the SATA power and data cords from the 3.5" HDD section and then its off to powder-coating for the bracket, IO shield and PCI bracket so they will all be black (the HDD so it looks like the cuts were stock).

[TNHNDYMAN]

Nice work man. Glad it's about finished and you can enjoy it.

[EndersShadow]

Nice work man. Glad it's about finished and you can enjoy it.

Yup, getting it down to the pretty petty cosmetic issues that I want to do just because I am a geek :biggrin:.

Still left on the list to do:

1. Cut out the SATA data and power sections for the suspended HDD (for future expansion capabilities or just to see if I can eliminate all HDD noise on the current one)
2. Notch the HDD bracket so the fan fits
3. Ship it out to powdercoat along with the IO shield, and PCI bracket
4. Cover the case with noise dampening material
5. Sleeve the power cords
6. Get shorter SATA data cords and sleeve them too
7. Get 2 Internal USB motherboard to USB ports to internally connect the Wireless card and IR remote sensor

[transmaster]

Woops didn't look at the date of the posting I was answering:confused:

[transmaster]

Dup' posting a Windows 8 moment:wink:

[EndersShadow]

One of the ladies at work's laptop went bad so she replaced it and gave me the broke one.

I am hoping to scavenge the wireless card out of it for this build (but dont know if it will work given its a PCI slot wireless card), and if possible utilize the LCD screen for my system in its current bezel which I will probably paint (its a gunmetal gray with a nice big TOSHIBA across the middle and we cant have that..... Its a bit bigger than I want at 14" but its free so I wont complain :smile:.

I might even make a custom bezel for it and order a touchscreen overlay.... :eek:....

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I'm glad you got it all working, at least I think you did.

I gotta say though, all that trouble is why I bought a Mac mini - silent, runs great, no setup and only cost me $350

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

And by the way, I used to be into the pc building thing and get why people go that route so I'm not knocking it, just not my thing these days.

[EndersShadow]

I'm glad you got it all working, at least I think you did.

Its up and running, but the finishing touches are not in place just yet. Still working on getting it setup networking wise for work.


I gotta say though, all that trouble is why I bought a Mac mini - silent, runs great, no setup and only cost me $350

Yeah, it woulda saved me a bunch of cash looking back at it, but I also have to re-learn how to use the computer... That and I have a 1TB HDD now and I know you can mod the mac mini's but i know its not super easy either....


And by the way, I used to be into the pc building thing and get why people go that route so I'm not knocking it, just not my thing these days.

I understand. I have loved and hated the experience all at the same time :smile:

This screen project may be pretty cool or a total waste, but its costing me nothing but time to take things apart and see what I can do with it.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Yeah upgrading the drive in the Mini is a bit of a job, but doesn't require a Dremel :-)

I've actually put all my stuff on a NAS now so it's a moot point for me, not ideal for a portable rig obviously.

[EndersShadow]

Yeah upgrading the drive in the Mini is a bit of a job, but doesn't require a Dremel :-)

I've actually put all my stuff on a NAS now so it's a moot point for me, not ideal for a portable rig obviously.

Yeah, yeah :wink:.....

Well I am pretty happy with how it sounds and looks. I get no noise at all from the system half a foot away and the temps are about 40C at idle which is more than ideal. I can probably even drop the fan speed more but its not worth it.

P.S. the laptop screen mod isnt going to be a go. There is no good way to make it worth without spending more than I want too (like 50 bucks). Same with the wireless card, dont think there is a good way to incorporate it into the system either.

But I got to destroy a laptop and see how it all gets put together which was quite fun.

[Habanero Monk]

Its up and running, but the finishing touches are not in place just yet. Still working on getting it setup networking wise for work.



Yeah, it woulda saved me a bunch of cash looking back at it, but I also have to re-learn how to use the computer... That and I have a 1TB HDD now and I know you can mod the mac mini's but i know its not super easy either....



I understand. I have loved and hated the experience all at the same time :smile:

This screen project may be pretty cool or a total waste, but its costing me nothing but time to take things apart and see what I can do with it.

This will make you sick: Saw a Foxconn micro pc 77970 for $120. Add 2GB RAM for $10, 128GB SSD for $65. Computer and components are just getting dirt cheap.

[EndersShadow]

This will make you sick: Saw a Foxconn micro pc or $120. Add 2GB RAM for $10, 128GB SSD for $65. Computer and components are just getting dirt cheap.

Yeah I see those, but they dont have the ability to add an internal cd drive, nor do they look like a piece of high end gear.....

[Habanero Monk]

I don't think it looks any worse or better than your external DAC plus it's black and can be hidden. You could do an external CD drive and use it just for ripping. I hardly use my CD/DVD drive any more.

Aesthetics is subjective. As example I find this awesome looking:

77973

[EndersShadow]

I don't think it looks any worse or better than your external DAC plus it's black and can be hidden. You could do an external CD drive and use it just for ripping. I hardly use my CD/DVD drive any more.

Eh, it is what it is. Also as an FYI, those systems are actually slated for 260 and 280 so not as cheap as originally stated. My build is more expensive than that, but not due to the regular parts (motherboard, CPU, memory), mostly due to my OCD about low noise and high quality finishes and parts. For 280 I could build the same system I have now (or even a newer FM2 build) with a cheaper case and use the stock CPU fan and its a much faster system.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/07/foxconn-nano-pcs-get-priced-dated-and-tweaked/


Aesthetics is subjective. As example I find this awesome looking:

Agreed, and Agreed that does look pretty awesome!

P.S. this build wasnt meant to be a totally low budget build from the start. Its more about taking the time to get all the parts right from the computer parts to the music interface, to the noise levels, to the finishes, etc. Doing things no one else will see (like sleeving the PSU, modding the HDD for another 2.5" HDD that may never be installed, cable routing, ect) to the cables themselves just because I wanted to. This has been a learning process for me on Mini-ITX and while its been annoyingly frustrating, I have enjoyed it as well.

If I was just looking to throw together a cheap little mini-itx system I could have done that months ago.

[EndersShadow]

I would say if I had one regret it was not seeing this sooner:

77974

http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/living/office-pc/572/mc101-barebone-a10-4600m.html?L=1

Its a pit pricey at around 500, but given the finish and parts I think its totally worth it. It is however still without a built in drive, and from the reviews can get a bit hot as the entire chassis is a heatsink, but overall a VERY nice looking product.

*edit* also noticed they have a A8 version that start at around 400 bucks... so its a very viable Mac Mini alternative for folks wanting to stick with Windows.

[transmaster]

[QUOTE=EndersShadow;1844594]I would say if I had one regret it was not seeing this sooner:


http://www.arctic.ac/en/p/living/office-pc/572/mc101-barebone-a10-4600m.html?L=1/QUOTE]

Thanks for this interesting link, They are going to get an order for the USB desk fan and hub :smile:

[EndersShadow]

Thought I would update: Its up and running, I am simply waiting on a couple last parts in order to be able to use it at work, mainly a wireless USB card. I will probably be buying one off my brother in law he isnt using which is a D-Link Xtreme N Dual-Band USB Adapter (DWA-160), Wireless N600 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127247&Tpk=dwa-160).

The plan for both it as well as the little USB IR reciever I am re-using is to use 2 of these internal USB to USB connectors (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812200294) so that I can keep all the cords inside the case so you dont see them and utilize the internal USB headers that otherwise would go unused.

I will get some pics when I finish getting all the cables connected up right and sleeved in black techflex and heatshrink....

In other news, thanks to Christmas money, I am going to invest in a little USB touchscreen monitor for this puppy, a MIMO UM-720S (http://www.amazon.com/MIMO-UM-720S-Screen-Powered-Display/dp/B002QFP4Z8/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pdT1_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2NQAT5WJ1AI8C&coliid=I1U4TRAA1YVPKV). At 100 bucks I cant pass it up, given most of the others are running 150+. Hopefully it works out OK. I have seen some decent reviews about using it as a jukebox type display.

[DSkip]

I'm meeting with the parents tonight to pick up the Schiit. I'll give you an update once I get it all set up. This will be my first dive into a computer-based system, so we will see how it goes.

[seabeerob213]

This will make you sick: Saw a Foxconn micro pc 77970 for $120. Add 2GB RAM for $10, 128GB SSD for $65. Computer and components are just getting dirt cheap.

Yeah I see those, but they dont have the ability to add an internal cd drive, nor do they look like a piece of high end gear.....



its foxconn, its made in china by children,

[EndersShadow]

I'm meeting with the parents tonight to pick up the Schiit. I'll give you an update once I get it all set up. This will be my first dive into a computer-based system, so we will see how it goes.

Nice. I am debating picking one up myself for my office rig upstairs in a couple months (after I get the Citation pre and amp).

I havent done much with my Audio GD-NFB-5 with using it as a pre yet, but I need to play around with it later tonight...

I am MOST curious how that works out as I can totally see myself with a Modi and Magni in my office at home for sure! Heck, might even use those two at work and keep the NFB-5 at home...

[EndersShadow]

This baby is finally almost wrapped up. I just need to get 2 pieces powdercoated and installed and its done.

I got 2 internal motherboard to USB connectors so my USB wireless card is inside the unit, as well as the cords for the IR reciever I re-used from my parts bin. I got the Silverstone noise dampening material in and have it all over the place.

Its not as good as the AcoustiPak stuff, but it works ok, especially if you layer it up like I have.

Internal case temps are running arond 40 Celcius which is well under where I would have issues and the thing is darn near silent till your within a couple inches of it. The control of the unit via my iPhone and the XBMC remote works great, makes me debate getting a dedicated device for this like an older Android tablet so I have a bigger screen to look at, but thats all later on...

I will be taking pics hopefully sometime soon, but it came out better than I had hoped.