Speakers...which ones?

[audiobliss]

I'm just getting into the audio world, so I'm a complete newbie. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a Yamaha RX-V540/640 in a month or so, and I'll need some speakers to go with it. However, I'm going to use some of my dad's old speakers for a while and wait to get some real speakers 'bout this time next year. Though I don't need speakers now, I thought I could start looking and familiarizing myself with terminology, what I need, and who makes good speakers.

I've been looking at Polk, Klipsch (Reference Series), Energy, Wharfedale, and Infinity. The Klipsch are really out of my price range (about $300-$700 a pair), but I've still been lookin' :). The Polk speakers I've been looking at are the R50s because they are in my price range seem to have pretty good wattage, frequency response, and sensitivity. Wharfedale seems to have some nice stuff for reasonably prices; is there a reason I don't want any of their stuff? I've been seriously lookin' at Energy's Connoiseur line-up. They look cool and seem to have pretty good specs; and, I've heard 'em. (Though, I've heard the Klipsch and Wharfedale; not Polk or Infinity.)

So, what do you guys think about these? Are there some other brands who offer good speakers that I can later expand into HT and are reasonably priced? Thanks

[steveinaz]

The choices are vast. If your trying to stay under $300 a pair, you might consider bookshelf/monitor type speakers. Not only are the far less expensive than floorstanders (usually), and though they lack some bass, they offer some of the best midrange/treble on the planet. All of the brands you mentioned above are fine as well as many others; JBL, Athena, NHT, Mirage, AR, etc...the list goes on and on. Try here for an idea of cost/brands: www.audioadvisor.com. The caveat is that monitors will require stands, so this is an additonal cost.

[dane]

for $300 you can get the jbl s38II which is a good sounding mid fi-hi fi speaker. try to search soem reviews on this speaker and put them on your audion list.

and if you are sure thay your going to get the yammy, sterotypically yammy doesnt amtch on klipsch speakers in some ofits recievers. and as i have heard them, they sound harsh to my ears as a i classify them as too bright.

my suggestion is go to the Jbls and audtion akso the athenas.
* dont quote me on that broght sounding as i am refering to my ears. i think other yammy recievers will do good to those loveley reference speakers by klipsch.

[organ]

Have you auditioned Klipsch? I just got a pair of RF-35 and the sound quality really exceeded my expectation. If you really value dynamics and impact, you won't go wrong. I believe the RB-25 should be in your price range.

There are also other great speakers to audition like Polk's bookshels, Energy, Paradigm, PSB, etc. I've been very impressed with PSB. PSB and Paradigm are much cheaper if you're in Canada.

Maurice

[steveinaz]

PSB, and Paradigm...How could I forget those 2! Very good choices indeed. Canadian's make great speakers.

[audiobliss]

Oh, another thing. For the majority of the time I will listen to these speakers at low volume while studyin' and so forth, though I want them to be capable of opening up for HT and stuff. From what I understand, speakers can be damaged from being underpowered (I don't understand any of this, but I've heard it). Here's my thinking: If I'm listening to music at very low volume, then the speakers aren't getting much power, right? Does this mean that I could easily damage them from running them underpowered?

[shack]

No, it is exactly the opposite. The damage is caused by trying to push a speaker too loud with too little power, thereby causing a speaker to "clip" (do a search on this forum and you will find several discussion on clipping).

[steveinaz]

Shack is on it. When an underpowered amp is pushed beyond its "usable" power limits, it begins producing the kind of electricity that you light lightbulbs with...seriously though, clipping occurs greatly increasing distortion, which can damage speakers.

Recall my speaker efficiency post?

An example would be having speakers rated for a 200 watts and driving them with a 30 watt receiver--good chance you're gonna make that receiver "clip" when doing some seriously loud listening.

[steveinaz]

Double post, sorry.

[Airplay355]

damaging the speakers will have to do with how clean the power your amp is putting out is and how much power it has. you are more likely to damage a speaker by running it with too little power then by running it with too much power. you will not damage your speakers by listening to them at a low volume.
what do you plan on running them with?


i would not get the r series pf speaker. for under 300, if you dig around, u might be able to find a pair of rti38's. just because the r50s are bigger does not make them better. i would check out PSB and JBL, they also make some nice bookshelves. the other brands i haven't demoed so u will have to decide for yourself on those.

[audiobliss]

For those who missed it my first post, I am seriously considering buying the Yamaha RX-V540/640; so, that's what I would be powering this speakers with. Thanks for all the info, guys; keep it coming!

[audiobliss]

Update: I'm considering (drooling over) the Yamaha RX-V1400. I'm trying to find websites to all those speakers I've never heard of before y'all suggested. Thanks! :)

[steveinaz]

Polk's, IMO are an excellent match with Yamaha equipment. Yamaha has that warm, smooth "UK" quality that mates well with the design of the Polk's.

[woodyjacobs]

I would seriously look at the jbl's. I actually run polk rtxxxi series speakers (rt2000i, cs245i and rt25i) with a yammy RXV620 (and also have run a pair of rti28s) and to my ears the yammy and the polks sound just a little flat together (actually the yammy/polk combo does a great job on dd5.1 and dts, I just think it lacks a little in stereo mode...hence for music I use a niles a/b amp switch and power the rt2000is with my audiosource amp2).

Okay, enough about me and on to the jbls. I just picked up some jbl s36II bookshelves (this is the little brother of the s38II that dane recommended), a very cool-looking little 3-way bookshelf, for almost nothing ($120 for the pair) open box at bestbuy. These things seem to mate really well with the yammy...I moved out the polk rt28is from their perch atop the kitchen cabinets (one must rock while cookin') and put these into play. The rt28is may have a little more punch in the low end, but the jbls seem smoother with vocals and fuller in the midrange. They may not have enough bass punch for a main speaker though...so the s38II might be a better choice if you will be using them for mains. They can usually be hand for about $250-275 a pair including shipping from Harman Audio's ebay store...they are B stock (refurbs and returns) but I have ordered a few things from them and have always been happy. I think the jbls really are made to placed horizontally though, so you might have to consider your setup. Check out harmanaudio.com to see them (although you can usually get better prices through harman's ebay store).

Don't get me wrong, I think the rti28 and rti38 are great speakers...but I think they mate better with Denon than with Yammy. Just my opinion.

[michael_w]

So what kinda PSB's are a good "bang for you buck"? Because I'm in Canada and someone said that PSB's are a good deal in Canada. :D

[steveinaz]

Mirage, Energy, Paradigm, Athena, PSB and many more made in Canada...pick one, they're all great!

[gatemplin]

Don't forget Axiom and Mission.

[fgr41]

What I like about this forum, even though its a "POLK" forum most suggestions are not Polk speakers. Instead speakers are suggested that may better fit your need not just trying to plug Polk.

Just remember the best way to find out what you need is to demo. It sounds like you have time to do some research so start reading and demo as much as you can.

When you go to a store to demo bring your own music/DVD's this way you know what it should sound like and you can better determine what the speakers are good and bad at reproducing.

[organ]

michael,
PSB and the other Canadian brands mentioned by steveinaz can be had cheaper in Canada. Everything in the PSB line is cheaper here. If a pair of PSB speakers retail for $1000US, it will also retail for $1000CDN. If an American company had speakers retailing for $1000USD, we usually have to pay around $1500CDN here.

Maurice

[F1nut]

Price range 300-700, easy choice. Find a used pair of Polk SDA 1C's.

[RuSsMaN]

I'll see your SDA 1c, and raise you an SDA SRS 2. ;)

Bagged mine for $400.

Cheers,
Russ

[F1nut]

I'll see your SDA SRS 2 and raise you a SDA SRS 2.3TL ;)

The point here, Audiobliss, is get any SDA speaker in your price range.

[theatre_man]

If you ever check back at this, i would seriously look at the Wharfedale EVO-30's, or the awesome monitors they put out, if you get a good sub. I would also look at the Yamaha RX-Z9 it is totally badass, but way out of your price range, but worth just listening to.

[F1nut]

Those Wharferat's and Yammie's got nothing on a pair of big SDA's!:D

[theatre_man]

dude why do youy have to be like that?

[F1nut]

Because it's the truth, can you handle that???

[audiobliss]

Hey, y'all. I'm soooo sorry for not responding to anything in soo long. I haven't died. I've just had a lot going on and we've been changing internet connnections and such. I thank you for all your help and advice; it's been great. I can't get over how unbiased everybody seems to be (except about those SDA speakers :) ). I really appreciate everything. I got the RX-V1400 for Christmas, so , that's the receiver I'll be using. Since I ended up not having to pay for that :) my price range is boosted a little. I can now afford up to about $600 a pair. I've been led to believe that, considering my meager funds, I should by bookshelf speakers and a sub, instead of tower speakers which is what I was previously looking at. Also, I've been looking at lots of speakers, lots of guitars, droolin' over '68 Camaros, and trying to shop for computer parts. So, I'm just kinda burned out on the whole 'shopping' thing. In light of that, I've decided to just get the best Klipsch Reference bookshelf speakers I can afford. I know people say they are harsh, especially with a Yamaha receiver. However, I've also heard that, considering I'm not an audiophile and haven't developed an ear that discerns between tonal differences, I probably won't notice it. I haven't yet in all the listening I've done (not too much). Anyways, I'm just burned out on shopping and not having any speakers from my receiver, and I can't find any reasons why I, a 16 year old, won't be satisfied with Klipsch speakers. How much do subs run? And, how much would I miss one if I just used two bookshelf speakers? I don't want to pay so much for a sub I have to cut corners on the speakers; I'd rather do without a low-end punch. Also, if I do manage to get some speakers before I'm old and gray, what kind of speaker wire should I get? I definitely don't want to pay a lot for it, but I do want something worthy of this Yamaha and Klipsch speakers.
So, what I'm saying is, what are some good Klipsch bookshelf speakers I can afford? Can I afford a decent sub (preferably Klipsch), or should I do without for a while? And, (less importantly)what kind of speaker wire should I be looking at? I really appreciate all the help y'all have so generously bestowed on a newbie. I hope that one day I, too, may be able to help out others with their problems!

[fgr41]

glad you are getting things in line. I would strongly suggest against the Klipsch if you are running the Yam 1400. I have recently set up the 1400 with my polks and am impressed with how it brought out the highs in my RT line of speakers. I can only imagine how high the klipsch would be.

I would go witht he Polks and take the store up on the free sub offer. I think most places are still offering that. I would buy enough of the speakers to get the free sub then tell them you want to take the $200 that the new sub would cost and add whatever you have left over from your speaker purchase to the $200 to get a higher end sub.

This way you can get some quality speakers and a descent sub. Subs range in price from $100 to thousands of dollars, it's all in how much you want to spend.

Good luck

[audiobliss]

Thanks, frg41. I wouldn't mind using Polk speakers; I'm pretty sure Now Audio Video in town sells them. Which speakers would you recommend? I really haven't looked that much at Polk, but I would be willing. Thanks for everything, and keep it coming!

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Audiobliss,
Where are you in NC?

I suggest............CRS+, SDA 2, RT5, RT7, RT800i, RT35i, RT55i, etc etc

SDA 2 can be had for 250-350, local pick up

CRS+ can be had for about 300 or so shipped

RT5 --- 100-150

RT7 - 200-300??

RT800i - 300+ shipping

RT35i - 100-150

RT55i - 300-400 + shipping

All can be found on EBay, if you dont mind using the used market.

[VE6OHV]

There are some great deals to be had for sure - don't limit yourself to "Klipsch"

Let your ears decide what you like best - The best sounding bookshelf speaks I own are "Dahlquist" - I never would have looked at them but I heard them and now I own 2 pairs.....

Take your time and find what you like. (so long as it is not Bose) - don't rule out some older used speakers - you can pick up some great deals on used floor standers.

[shack]

Originally posted by audiobliss
Thanks, frg41. I wouldn't mind using Polk speakers; I'm pretty sure Now Audio Video in town sells them.

Now Audio only sells Klipsch, Boston Acoustics, Monitor Audio , Definitive Technology and maybe Martin Logan. Of that group I would look at the Klipsch or Bostons. If there is a Tweeter in your area look at their line of Bostons. Go to Circuit City and look at the Polk RTi6 Bookshelf.

But 1st WHAT IS your budget? Do you want 2 speakers? Do you want 2 speakers and a sub? Do you want 2 front, 2 rear, a center channel and a sub. Stereo music or Home Theater? You gotta narrow it down some...

[audiobliss]

To clarify a little bit: My budget is $500 max, including everything (I already have the receiver). Ideally, I think I'd want floor-stander. However, I've been persuaded that I can get better quality speakers cheaper in a bookshelf model. But, if I get a sub, will I then be spending just as much as I would on floor standing speakers? Question: In this price range, is it common to buy speakers and a sub? Should I really just go with some speakers and try and save some money so I can later get a sub? I'll be using this setup for music about 98.976% of the time, but will like to be able to expnd it into HT later (when I have the time, money, and space: when I move out). BTW, I'm in the triad in NC, right between Winston and Greensboro. So, neither place is too far to drive to look at speakers. (There's High Point, too.) Well, I'm going to see if I can't start listening to speakers again. Keep all the advice coming, 'cause I got a big hole it's fillin'!

[shack]

Understand that I am a BIG fan of bookshelf speakers. I feel a pair of GOOD sub $500 bookshelf speakers will outperform a similarly priced pair of floorstanders. But again that is just my pesonal bias. Remember too, that unsless you actually have a bookshelf to put the speakers on you will have to purchase (or make) a pair of speaker stands. I would then save up for a nice sub. There are several subs in the $400 and under range that would work very well with a nice set of bookshelf speakers and will hit harder and lower that a comparibly priced set of floorstanders.

Second, while there are certainly good buys out there for used speakers...I would consider purchasing new for a couple of reasons. You have indicated that you would like to use whatever you buy as a building block for HT in the maybe near future. The older you go with speakers, the harder it will be to find speakers that will match as you add on. Having had a mismatched home theater at one time, I now prefer to have all my speakers (excluding sub) match as much as possible and preferably in the same line or family of speakers. Also being relatively new to the hobby it is sometimes difficult to determine the condition of used gear and you almost never have a warranty. New helps avoid a lot of those pitfalls.

Ok...based on what I said above...here is what I would do. If you like the Klipsch, thats fine. Before you make that decision, here are several that you should take a look at and I know from traveling in your area that you can find them to demo:

B&W DM303 - MSRP $300 - These get very high marks for high bang for the buck from several members here. Don't expect any discounts though. Also don't assume that because these are at the low end of the price spectrum that they are necessarily inferior to the others.

Polk RTi6 - MSRP $379 - Several folks here heard these at Russ' Texas gathering and spoke highly of them - Circuit City for sure and you may catch them on sale somewhere.

Boston Acoustics CR85 - MSRP $400 - A nice laidback sound from a company that doesn't get much press but has been around for a while and makes a pretty good speaker, Should be able to find these at Now Audio or Tweeter and maybe they will deal.

NHT SB2 - MSRP $400 - These may be the most difficult to locate because their dealer network is sparse....however since they are an acoustic suspension design they "may" have a little better low extention than some of the others.

Paradigm Monitor 5 - MSRP $519 - This is the largest and best Paradigm bookshelf model in your price range. I am not a big fan of this brand but I have heard these and they are pretty good. They are also the closest out there to my Polk RT55is so there is probably a bias there..

These are just a few that I have listened to and could recommend that YOU go demo. There are certainly other brands like Def Tec, JBL, etc... but I have very little experience with them.

Good luck...go listen to everything you can and remember the most imortant rule:

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING BASED ON WHAT ANYONE HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE RECOMMENDS WITHOUT LISTENING FOR YOURSELF!

[audiobliss]

I've heard several people recommend the RTi6 speakers, which seem to be pretty nice. However, the RTi38 speakers have a lower frequency response and, to me, are more visually appealling. I was wondering why nobody brought these up, and why aren't they better considering they have a lower frequency response?

[audiobliss]

Also, the RTi6s are obviously nicer considering they cost more, but why? I don't understand this.

[audiobliss]

And (sorry I couldn't combine all this into one post), would all the Polk center channel speakers be timbre matched? If not, which ones could I use? Also, which rear channel speakers could I use? This isn't THAT important, because it will probably be quite a few years before I start expanding into HT, though I might try and get a cc speaker soon enough. Also, are there any complaints against Klipsch besides the harshness that the horn loaded tweeter provides? I don't really know why, but I'm really drawn to their speakers.

[TN_Polk_Lover]

Originally posted by audiobliss
I've heard several people recommend the RTi6 speakers, which seem to be pretty nice. However, the RTi38 speakers have a lower frequency response and, to me, are more visually appealling. I was wondering why nobody brought these up, and why aren't they better considering they have a lower frequency response?

I agree with you that the RTi38's are more visually appealing. But, of course, the appearance is very much a matter of personal opinion and everyone has different tastes. I have a pair of RTi38's (Cherry finish) connected to an older model Yamaha Receiver (R-9) which is rated at 125 watts per channel (2 channel only).

I love the sound of my speakers. If you put them on good stands so that the tweeters are at ear level when you are seated, and you can position them at least 2 feet away from any wall, then they will image very nicely. You might not yet understand what we mean by "image" but once you do understand and hear it for yourself, you'll be hooked. If speakers "image" well, you will hear a "soundstage" spread out in front of you and the speakers themselves will seem to disappear. You should be able to close your eyes and not really tell where the speakers themselves are, but you will be able to locate certain voices or instruments in space. (This of course depends alot on the particular recording you are listening to). The effect is almost magical the first time you experience it. Many people feel that somewhat smaller bookshelf speakers image better than larger floorstanding speakers. The tradeoff is that you don't have real deep bass.

For myself, if my budget is limited, I'd rather have the best pair of good imaging bookshelf speakers I could afford. Then, later, as money permits, you could add a subwoofer if you want some deeper bass (for example, if you like pipe organ music and want to experience the "feeling" of the lowest bass notes.)

Also, if you are still at home and have a small bedroom, you may not have room for floor speakers or even bookshelfs on stands. You may have to hang the bookshelf speakers on the wall. If you do put them close to the wall, they won't image as well, but at least later when you have more room you can put them on stands and get them away from the walls.

I haven't really done a lot of in-store listening, but just from what little I've done, to me, Polks have a "sweeter" "smoother" high end than some speakers but with a very neutral mid-range. Klipsh to me have a more "forward" more pronounced mid range. If you like to listen to brass (trumpets, trombones, etc.) some people prefer the Klipsh because they seem to slightly emphasize the "brassy" sound.

Hope this helps. I'm now 49 years old, but I was fascinated with "record players" from as early as I can remember (about 3 years old). I didn't start buying any "hi-fi" equipment until I was 18, but if you love music as I do you won't regret getting into this hobby. I'd just recommend going for quality vs. quanity. For instance, go for a better quality 2 channel system, vs. a cheap multichannel home theater system. Nothing wrong at all with home theater if you can afford it! Of course, you already have the HT receiver, but you can still use it in 2 channel mode until you can afford to add more speakers for the center - surround - rear.

Just my advice, but as always, trust your own ears.

[TN_Polk_Lover]

Originally posted by audiobliss
Also, the RTi6s are obviously nicer considering they cost more, but why? I don't understand this.

I think that the RTi6's are considered a newer model replacement for the RTi38's, so seems that some places have the RTi38's at a reduced price. Crutchfield has them reduced (I think?) and in the Nashvile area there are stores called "Electronic Express". They also have the 38's at a clearance price.

[audiobliss]

I think I'd be sold on the RTi38s if I knew of some place reasonably close that had 'em so I could hear 'em; I've never even seen 'em. It'd really be great if I could get 'em before the 29 so I could get the free sub. They don't show up on CC's website, and, if I could somehow manage to persuade Mom & Dad to order online, I can't find 'em on Crutchfield's website, either. I'd hate to buy something I haven't heard, and I don't think Dad would like that, either. But, if I could find a place to hear 'em, I think I'd like 'em, especially with a sub.

[audiobliss]

Thanks for all the help, guys. I'm going to try and start listening, now. I'll keep ya posted if I find something.