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View Full Version : What is the Best of the currently avaiable Pre Amplifiers with out going overboad



Sumerian
08-27-2013, 09:36 AM
I did a lot of search here and other forums most of the recommendations/Requests are either budget restrained or basic or startup Amps or too heavy on wallet.


So i would like to see what you Audhiophile veterans have to recommend for the below spec.
Keeping the budget at max 3k or 4k and only considering new.
Not looking for a inexpensive atlernatives like Emotiva (no pun intended) etc., but if you have done A/B tests and you feel it is really good then lest list it here. We are looking for budget audiphile Pre Amp.


1) Best Avaiable DAC
2) Audiophile grade processing and SQ
Atleast 5 Hdmi inputs , 1 or 2 outputs
4)Top of the line room correction system
5)On screen display
6) Itunes app to control
7) DLNA/Net
8) 7.2 or more channels
9) 4K and 3D pass through
10) Build and Quality

Let me know if we are missing any key spec

Again this is just consolidate our opinions and thoughts.... Please lets not turn and twist this thread

tonyb
08-27-2013, 09:58 AM
You want a lot for 4k new. The closest to what you want as far as I can tell is this....


http://www.crutchfield.com/p_642AV8801/Marantz-AV8801.html?tp=47509#details-tab

My personal fav would be the Cary cinema 12, doesn't have a lot of the bells and whistles you may want but sound quality is pretty darn good, enough to rival a lot of pre amps. That's of course if your looking to do music and movies out of one system.

disneyjoe7
08-27-2013, 10:04 AM
Have you considered doing a pre / HT system? A system to do 2 channel and 5.1+ or so. A bit cheaper and maybe better 2 channel, the pre would need to be a HT bypass but.....

Sumerian
08-27-2013, 10:09 AM
[QUOTE=tonyb;1956421]You want a lot for 4k new.[QUOTE]


Ok so what would be more appropriate budget? and what will be your recomendation

Sumerian
08-27-2013, 10:13 AM
[QUOTE=tonyb;1956421]Marantz-AV8801[QUOTE]

On paper this one looks loaded

Mikey081057
08-27-2013, 10:17 AM
[QUOTE=tonyb;1956421]Marantz-AV8801[QUOTE]

On paper this one looks loaded

I have the AV7701, which is about half the price, and it does everything you need for HT. Phenomenal quality
.

Sumerian
08-27-2013, 10:31 AM
[QUOTE=Sumerian;1956426][QUOTE=tonyb;1956421]Marantz-AV8801

I have the AV7701, which is about half the price, and it does everything you need for HT. Phenomenal quality
.

Looks pretty close but the later has a better DAC i think?

tonyb
08-27-2013, 10:31 AM
Well, the thing is pre/pro's are off the bat going to be more expensive than an AVR. Better build quality, better level of adjustment, etc. Like everything else, there's a pre/pro for every budget starting with Emotiva, then up to brands like the Marantz then Cary or Anthem...Classe...Bryston, etc.

Personally I think the Marantz is a nice blend of sound quality and bells and whistles for what you want in that price category......talking new now. However, that's a lot of coin to throw down and buying a used pre/pro or even a store demo could save you thousands. Lets face it, audio gear is horrible at retaining value.

You seem to be all over the map with cables and gear, not yet realizing that even though you may acquire some of the best, it may not add up to good synergy once put all together. Forcing you to sell something at a loss. Take it a step at a time, every brand has what we call a "house sound", which may or may not tickle your fancy or jive with the rest of your gear. Just trying to save you some coin, maybe a little disappointment, because this audio thing is a gradual journey that your ears must get accustomed to knowing what they like. You then move in that direction knowing which "house sounds" appeal to you.

For a good pre/pro, under your requirements, I can't see how you could go wrong with the Marantz. If I was to chase down a used one, Anthem D2, Bryston, Classe ssp800, and Cary cinema 12 would all be contenders

tonyb
08-27-2013, 10:40 AM
Let me add, than many find an AVR coupled with an amp to be more than satisfactory. Some may even rival decent pre/pro's. But as we all know, build quality is essential to squeezing out the absolute best sounds. An AVR is a compromised product in that you have many separate pieces squeezed into one. One of the more important components is the build quality of the analog output stages. Separates usually have better builds in that department over an avr, better built dacs, etc. That's not saying that a top of the line avr can't compete either, just that if those incremental differences in sound is important to you and worth the extra coin to get it, then only you can make that decision.

Sumerian
08-27-2013, 10:42 AM
Tony,
Thanks for the input and recomendations

This is just to learn/ gather information from folks here...

nwohlford
08-27-2013, 10:51 AM
The Marantz AV8801 is probably the best fit for all your criteria. I believe the AV7701 does not have Audyssey XT32.

I have a Anthem AVM-50v with a Sonos connect which does most of that. It does not have the full iPhone/iPad app, but I never really have used those in the past (I doubt I have used the one for my Onkyo 5508 more than once a month). It does not have 4K or 3D, but I could do the 3d update for around $500 and don't need the 4k video.

unc2701
08-27-2013, 01:36 PM
Audio Advisor has the marantz on demo:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1MAAV8801

"Our Demo Clearance gear falls into three categories:

Photo samples we have used in our catalog photo shoots.
Gear that we have auditioned in our own listening rooms.
And products that have been returned by customers because they do not like the finish, size, shape, sound, etc.

All demo clearance items are carefully inspected by our technicians before we offer the item for sale. All come with the original manufacturer warranty and are guaranteed to work and sound like new. "

They left off the fourth category which is "we want to sell under MSRP and this is how we dodge it".

Polkie2009
08-27-2013, 01:41 PM
I wanted to add that Yamaha has a new pre/pro model ,CX-A5000. I'm not sure how it compares to the Marantz AV8801 or if it even comes close to the Marantz's specs. etc... Tony mentioned some excellent choices too.

Sumerian
08-27-2013, 02:11 PM
Is Marantz well regarded here among polkies?

Polkie2009
08-27-2013, 02:19 PM
Honestly, I had looked at the some of the Marantz pre/pro models a year or two ago and held off , thought I had heard of some problem with them. I can't recall if it was just a one time problem someone had on theirs or if it affected a number of units. Hope someone can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Sumerian
08-27-2013, 02:33 PM
Audio Advisor has the marantz on demo:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1MAAV8801

"Our Demo Clearance gear falls into three categories:

Photo samples we have used in our catalog photo shoots.
Gear that we have auditioned in our own listening rooms.
And products that have been returned by customers because they do not like the finish, size, shape, sound, etc.

All demo clearance items are carefully inspected by our technicians before we offer the item for sale. All come with the original manufacturer warranty and are guaranteed to work and sound like new. "

They left off the fourth category which is "we want to sell under MSRP and this is how we dodge it".


Though little risky ebay has brand new ones for around 2200 i think

Polkie2009
08-27-2013, 02:49 PM
Though little risky ebay has brand new ones for around 2200 i think That beats the price on the Yamaha CX-A5000 ($2,499.00) over at Crutchfield and at One Call.

nwohlford
08-27-2013, 03:34 PM
Though little risky ebay has brand new ones for around 2200 i think

Accessories4less.com has refurbs of the Marantz for $2300.

tonyb
08-27-2013, 03:44 PM
Is Marantz well regarded here among polkies?

I would say so. Keep in mind every brand, every product line puts out a turkey every so often. Research specific models to see which are or aren't.

WLDock
08-27-2013, 03:44 PM
No opinions to add...the better A/V Pre/Pro's are expensive...never ran one.

Don't know if you have seen these links but it is a nice list of past and present.

http://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews

http://www.hometheater.com/category/preampprocessor-reviews?page=1

http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

Great read here:

Deconstructing the home theater pre-processor
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/whats-new/2013/2/11/deconstructing-the-home-theater-pre-processor.html


Interesting unit not talked about around here..but maybe someone should get one of these and test it out:

Nuforce AVP 18 - MSRP $1,095
https://www.nuforce.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=290:udac-2&Itemid=1098Talk

Talk
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465920/nuforce-avp-18-preamp-processor
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1478114/nuforce-avp-18-any-reviews-insight
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/home-cinema/new-all-digital-av-preampprocessor-nuforce-avp-18

That's all I can add....but, one day I might want to do a HT bypass system or a 2 in 1 rig.

Sumerian
08-27-2013, 03:48 PM
No opinions to add...the better A/V Pre/Pro's are expensive...never ran one.

Don't know if you have seen these links but it is a nice list of past and present.

http://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews

http://www.hometheater.com/category/preampprocessor-reviews?page=1

http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

Great read here:

Deconstructing the home theater pre-processor
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/whats-new/2013/2/11/deconstructing-the-home-theater-pre-processor.html


Interesting unit not talked about around here..but maybe someone should get one of these and test it out:

Nuforce AVP 18 - MSRP $1,095
https://www.nuforce.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=290:udac-2&Itemid=1098Talk

Talk
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465920/nuforce-avp-18-preamp-processor
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1478114/nuforce-avp-18-any-reviews-insight

That's all I can add....but, one day I might want to do a HT bypass system or a 2 in 1 rig.

Looks like you are Mr wiki or you have good search skills.

Thanks for all the references.

WLDock
08-27-2013, 03:53 PM
Just doing what I can....I ignored a lot of HT stuff over the years in favor of car audio. Now coming back, there is are area's I'm really rusty on like digital, formats, codecs, etc side of things. So I am learning just like you and have dreams of an awesome HT someday. ...but I know it will take time. So, I try to read what ever I can.

tonyb
08-27-2013, 03:57 PM
Point being, when asked about the "best" of anything, it's all subjective. In audio, your choices are numerous in any category.

My advice....buy something that meets your needs and wallet, has a good reputation in build quality, dependability, and customer service. Proven track records are nothing to sneeze at.

BlueFox
08-27-2013, 03:59 PM
Within the last year I upgraded my AVR pre/pro to the Onkyo SC5509, and have been very pleased with it so far. There was an immediate and obvious improvement in sound quality over the AVR, which is the main concern to me. I just use it as a pass through for video. It might not have all the bells and whistles you want, but at $2500 it is less expensive than your range.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_580PRS5509/Onkyo-PR-SC5509.html?tp=47509&awkw=45594000025&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=16717186465&awdv=c

pitdogg2
08-27-2013, 04:26 PM
Though little risky ebay has brand new ones for around 2200 i think

Be careful Denon/Marantz has a strict policy for their warranty and most on eBay are not authorized to sell their products. Go to their D&M website to see the E-sellers that they will honor.

Sumerian
08-27-2013, 04:31 PM
Be careful Denon/Marantz has a strict policy for their warranty and most on eBay are not authorized to sell their products. Go to their D&M website to see the E-sellers that they will honor.

yeah its risky to buy off Ebay

Polkie2009
08-27-2013, 04:32 PM
Within the last year I upgraded my AVR pre/pro to the Onkyo SC5509, and have been very pleased with it so far. There was an immediate and obvious improvement in sound quality over the AVR, which is the main concern to me. I just use it as a pass through for video. It might not have all the bells and whistles you want, but at $2500 it is less expensive than your range. http://www.crutchfield.com/p_580PRS5509/Onkyo-PR-SC5509.html?tp=47509&awkw=45594000025&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=16717186465&awdv=c +1 Your Onkyo pre/pro is gorgeous Blue Fox. Talk about a solid looking unit, love all those XLR's!

Mikey081057
08-27-2013, 04:35 PM
Marantz Support is also very good... They are still here in the U.S. too.

Sumerian
08-27-2013, 04:40 PM
Within the last year I upgraded my AVR pre/pro to the Onkyo SC5509, and have been very pleased with it so far. There was an immediate and obvious improvement in sound quality over the AVR, which is the main concern to me. I just use it as a pass through for video. It might not have all the bells and whistles you want, but at $2500 it is less expensive than your range.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_580PRS5509/Onkyo-PR-SC5509.html?tp=47509&awkw=45594000025&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=16717186465&awdv=c

OK I have a 600$ Onkyo 709 AVR.... its has all the options i spec'd above expect the DAC thing.

if it is just tech it will be easier but from what i understand SQ is whole different thing... I am trying to identify a pre amp with SQ and nice of tech.

from what i am seeing i think the more its moves towards SQ the tech gets down and price goes up.

I think to preserve the SQ they need to be conservative on what they put on ?

tonyb
08-27-2013, 04:45 PM
No, it's just a matter of reaching price points for targeted consumers. If you want everything, no holds barred top shelf, it's going to cost some coin.

pitdogg2
08-27-2013, 04:53 PM
if it is just tech it will be easier but from what i understand SQ is whole different thing... I am trying to identify a pre amp with SQ and nice of tech.

Well this is where you need to get YOUR ears on the item. My sound quality most likely will be a WHOLE different beast than yours, not to mention synergy with your other gear.

WLDock
08-27-2013, 04:59 PM
Within the last year I upgraded my AVR pre/pro to the Onkyo SC5509, and have been very pleased with it so far. There was an immediate and obvious improvement in sound quality over the AVR, which is the main concern to me. I just use it as a pass through for video. It might not have all the bells and whistles you want, but at $2500 it is less expensive than your range.
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_580PRS5509/Onkyo-PR-SC5509.html?tp=47509&awkw=45594000025&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=16717186465&awdv=c

+1 Your Onkyo pre/pro is gorgeous Blue Fox. Talk about a solid looking unit, love all those XLR's!That is a very nice unit...I would think it would cost much much more to move past it in features and in SQ. also, Audyssey MultEq XT32 is not found on a lot of units.

Myself, I ran accross a used older Onkyo PR-SC886 pre/pro at a nice price and was seriously considering the unit.
http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/products/pr-sc886-35025.html
However, then I started down the mental game of wondering how it would compare with the right amps to the Elite SC unit I plan to get....I wish I could play with both.

jeremymarcinko
08-27-2013, 07:44 PM
Audyssey sounds best when its off anyway.

WLDock
08-27-2013, 08:39 PM
I keep reading that MultEq XT32 is much more improved in terms of the end result. Some rooms have more errors than others. I've yet to play with it.

What issues did you have with it?

nwohlford
08-27-2013, 09:07 PM
I keep reading that MultEq XT32 is much more improved in terms of the end result. Some rooms have more errors than others. I've yet to play with it.

What issues did you have with it?

XT32 is the first room correction on mainstream brand AVRs and pre/pros where I prefer it on for music. If you have not tried XT32 in your system you really should. I would put it on a similar level as Anthem's ARC. I would no longer think of getting an AVR or pre/pro that did not have that level of room correction.

DSkip
08-27-2013, 09:19 PM
Are the Integra units still any good? I remember the 80.3 (was that it?) getting rave reviews, but I don't see it mentioned anywhere anymore.

jeremymarcinko
08-27-2013, 09:27 PM
It can't work, everyone has different hearing. Unless I can upload the results of my most recent hearing exam. Other than setting distance and level. It will suck the life right out. Its a compromise over several seating positions, I prefer my seat to sound the best it can. No compromise. What's the point of using good speakers and amps just to have a dsp changing the way it sounds. I tried all of the tricks for better results but to no success. I'm sure it may help some gear sound better in some rooms and every ones mileage will vary.

Sumerian
08-27-2013, 09:31 PM
Looks like both Marantz 8801 and Yamaha CX A5000 in some spotlight as of now


not sure if YPAO is off same levels as Audyessy

F1nut
08-27-2013, 10:46 PM
For a pre/pro take a look at Arcam, noted for their excellent sound quality.

nwohlford
08-28-2013, 08:52 PM
It can't work, everyone has different hearing. Unless I can upload the results of my most recent hearing exam. Other than setting distance and level. It will suck the life right out. Its a compromise over several seating positions, I prefer my seat to sound the best it can. No compromise. What's the point of using good speakers and amps just to have a dsp changing the way it sounds. I tried all of the tricks for better results but to no success. I'm sure it may help some gear sound better in some rooms and every ones mileage will vary.

I am curious if you have tried a unit with XT32.

While people do have different hearing, that is irrelevant. Neutral/accurate is neutral/accurate regardless of your hearing. Now not everyone prefers neutral/accurate as taste varies and that is fine.

Unless you treat your room perfectly, you are always going to have room effects that limit the performance of your set-up. Really good room correction can limit those effects. Room correction can not make bad speakers good, but it can help the limitations of your room from making your good speakers sound bad.

WLDock
08-29-2013, 07:45 AM
What's the point of using good speakers and amps just to have a dsp changing the way it sounds.Well, the old rule still aplies today..."He who equalizes least, equalized best!" Those with rooms that muck up the sound the least are the lucky bunch. However, what's the point of having good 2.1, 5.1, 5.2, 7.1, 7.2, etc speakers, subs and amps and have the ROOM change the way it sounds? Subs tend to sound boomy in many rooms and can most times sound better with just a little bit of placement, level, and phase tweaking alone. However, with a more powerful tool available I'm sure things can get even better.

Some speak of Audyssey XT having a diffussed sound. However, I've read over and over again how some say the XT32 and more resolution and they even like it for 2 Ch listening. There are SO many factors that can affect the sound and there are factors in getting Audyssey to correct ones room to their liking. There are no one solution for all.

Sumerian
08-29-2013, 07:28 PM
Pulled trigger on Halo A51

WLDock
08-29-2013, 09:17 PM
Pulled trigger on Halo A51 Your a BAAAD man! Enjoy! and report back.

Sumerian
08-30-2013, 06:24 AM
Have you considered doing a pre / HT system? A system to do 2 channel and 5.1+ or so. A bit cheaper and maybe better 2 channel, the pre would need to be a HT bypass but.....

I didnt get this before as i am not sure what you are saying....


Now that i get it.. i am planning on going in this route to have a better stereo quality...

So the primary requirement would best stereo with HT bypass and may be a onboard DAC


What are you using ? any suggestions?

tonyb
08-30-2013, 10:12 AM
2 channel pre amps don't have dacs, that's why they call them separates. Normally you use the dac that's built into your source such as a CD player, or you buy a separate dac.

Sumerian
08-30-2013, 10:27 AM
2 channel pre amps don't have dacs, that's why they call them separates. Normally you use the dac that's built into your source such as a CD player, or you buy a separate dac.

Yup searched and found only one which is at hefty price tag...

I think i should keep it simple and just get pure pre pro specially for SQ/stereo.

unc2701
08-30-2013, 11:34 AM
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PTNOVAPRE

Musical Fidelity has been putting USB DACs on most their recent preamps/integrated amps/headphone amps. They also have the older CD/Pre, which I owned for a while and highly recommend. MF also has HT bypass on their pres and integrateds (and usually a phono stage).

Bryston has a DAC option for their preamps.

I'm sure there are more. So, they can be found, but you may be better off getting a pre that you like the sound of and has HT bypass and adding a DAC later.

Sumerian
08-30-2013, 12:01 PM
but you may be better off getting a pre that you like the sound of and has HT bypass and adding a DAC later.

I think thats the route i will go... keep things seperate

tonyb
08-30-2013, 12:14 PM
Yup searched and found only one which is at hefty price tag...

I think i should keep it simple and just get pure pre pro specially for SQ/stereo.

Agree, don't sell short what a quality pre/pro can offer up in sound quality. Sure, some pre's come with a usb dac but usually those are limited along with limited connections. A good HT pre/pro will have a substantially better dac and analog output stage over most run of the mill receivers.

Sumerian
08-30-2013, 12:20 PM
A good HT pre/pro will have a substantially better dac and analog output stage over most run of the mill receivers.

problem is if we go with HT pre/pros like Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha..... they have to much tech in to them not sure if they have proper justice for stereo SQ. Jack of all trades master of none.?

Polkie2009
08-30-2013, 12:29 PM
Agree, don't sell short what a quality pre/pro can offer up in sound quality. Sure, some pre's come with a usb dac but usually those are limited along with limited connections. A good HT pre/pro will have a substantially better dac and analog output stage over most run of the mill receivers. +1 , I think you right Tony, most of these better HT pre/pro are around $2500 and up. I'd like to think they have a very nice quality DAC and analog output stage in them. I've also noticed some have bought the Oppo 105 player for it's DAC capabilities.

falconcry72
08-30-2013, 12:47 PM
problem is if we go with HT pre/pros like Marantz, Onkyo, Yamaha..... they have to much tech in to them NOT SURE if they have proper justice for stereo SQ. Jack of all trades master of none.?

Exactly. You are NOT SURE because you haven't even listened to your system yet! lol. Read my reply in your other thread.

In case you missed it:


Yea, the best way to get the "best of both worlds" is just to have (2) separate systems. See my sig.

But yes, many people use a 2-channel preamp with HT bypass in their HT rigs, and I think that would be a very nice alternative.

My suggestion to you is to wait until you get all the other gear you're amassing right now, and then just listen for a while. I mean "a while" as in weeks. Play with speaker placement, AVR settings, etc, and just see what you think.

The whole point of adding or swapping out equipment is to alter the sound to your liking. You won't know what you want to alter about the sound until you listen! Once you listen, you may be perfectly satisfied... if not, you'll need to determine a very specific attribute of the sound that you want to change. You will then decide what gear to add or swap based on the specific way that you want to change the sound.

Hope this helps.

Sumerian
08-30-2013, 01:03 PM
Falcon,
Your point is taken and yes I am done with my purchases.
Waiting on the amp and subwoofer to set everything up.

But I would like to do more educated and thorough purchase for pre pro once I am ready to buy one and hence this thread.

falconcry72
08-30-2013, 01:46 PM
Falcon,
Your point is taken and yes I am done with my purchases.
Waiting on the amp and subwoofer to set everything up.

But I would like to do more educated and thorough purchase for pre pro once I am ready to buy one and hence this thread.

Yea I feel you, and I'm not trying to bust your chops... it's just that you wouldn't buy a pair of shoes before knowing how big the foot is, ya know?

Sumerian
08-30-2013, 01:54 PM
Yea I feel you, and I'm not trying to bust your chops... it's just that you wouldn't buy a pair of shoes before knowing how big the foot is, ya know?


I got you.. No offense taken...

I generally spend a long time in forums before i buy any product but this time every thing went little fast track...bought speakers ....to back them up -- amps and cables....

Rest of the stuff can be taken little slower ...i am way out of my budget anyway....

F1nut
08-30-2013, 02:37 PM
i am way out of my budget anyway....

That happens a lot around here.....LOL

Sumerian
08-30-2013, 02:47 PM
That happens a lot around here.....LOL


Looks like audiophobia is directly proportional to how much broke, one is ...

Sumerian
08-30-2013, 02:51 PM
So just to get started on a right path... i would strike of all my tech spec mentioned in my first post.

So do you have any other pre pro suggestions which are basically oriented/dedicated to music alone and has HT pass through.

DSkip
08-30-2013, 03:22 PM
Exactly. You are NOT SURE because you haven't even listened to your system yet! lol. Read my reply in your other thread.

In case you missed it:


Thanks for reinforcing my point to him twice now. It's easy to see you are a kid in a candy store Sum, but if you eat it all at once, you're just going to get sick. Try what you can over time and you'll figure out what you like. It's going to be easier to stomach that way too.

Sumerian
08-30-2013, 04:06 PM
easier to stomach that way too.

And easy on wallet

Sumerian
08-30-2013, 04:08 PM
Just realised i am using the word Pre Pro instead of pre Amp.

Learned some thing new today... Thanks to Audio Guru

falconcry72
09-01-2013, 12:52 PM
Just realised i am using the word Pre Pro instead of pre Amp.

Learned some thing new today... Thanks to Audio Guru

To me, "preamp" is a broader term than "pre/pro". There are lots of types of preamps, including two-channel analog only ones as well as multi-channel, A/V switching/decoding ones. So basically a pre/pro is a type of preamp, but it's specific to A/V processors.

Sumerian
09-01-2013, 10:22 PM
To me, "preamp" is a broader term than "pre/pro". There are lots of types of preamps, including two-channel analog only ones as well as multi-channel, A/V switching/decoding ones. So basically a pre/pro is a type of preamp, but it's specific to A/V processors.

Yup, Ideally i hope to replace my AVR with Pre Pro for HT and Pre Amp for Stereo with HT by pass

and add a DAC in the mix....