I Am So Pissed

[ken brydson]

Bought a 27" Toshiba Flat Screen for the kids TV 3 months ago. Last week I noticed it was cracking on the frame around the screen on the bottom left corner. Wife called BBuy and told them. The guy she talked to said bring it in and they would "probably" just give us a new one. OK, cool. Unhook everything, lug it to the car and off to Best Buy. They take a look and say they have to send it to the service center to see what's wrong with it. Huh? It's breaking.....we need to send it out to determine THAT?
Now I'm to the pissed part. The service center just called and said it wasn't covered by the manufacturers warranty OR by their extended service plan. They want close to $200 to repair it. $200 to repair a 3 month old $400 set? Give me a freakin' break. The tech said "it still works fine, just a little crack". Should I have to put up with this?
I am WIDE open to suggestions.
Thanks. I feel a little better now

[F1nut]

That sucks man. Try some superglue???

[ken brydson]

Originally posted by F1nut
That sucks man. Try some superglue???

I could but should I have to?

[F1nut]

No!

[PolkThug]

That's a crappy situation to be in. I'll let you in on a little secret, and hopefully it applies to BB also. At CC, if a customer has bought an extended warranty, no matter how long ago, and they decide they don't want the extended warranty anymore, we have to refund them the prorated amount.

Example: cutomer buys a $100 one year warranty on their TV. They come back 3 months later and don't want the warranty anymore, we have to give them $75 back.

I know this doesn't 'solve' your problem, but you could at least maybe get some money back on an extended warranty that doesn't seem to cover squat.

Regards,
PolkThug

[ken brydson]

That's a thought. I'm heading down to the store to pitch a bitch in a few. Who knows if it will do any good

[shack]

Contact Toshiba USA. They have a 1 year limited warranty against defects on most of their TVs. DO NOT trust BB for what is and is not covered. Check you manual for warranty information and then call Tosiba.

http://www.toshiba.com/tai-new/Support.jsp

[danger boy]

if i were you. i'd deal ONLY with Toshiba.. not BB. i can't imagine Toshiba wouldn't over a defect like that. if it's only a few months old.

How good are those extended warrantys anyway? I got one for 4 yrs for my new Zenith. now i wonder if it will cover "everything" or only small things? hmmmm?

[ken brydson]

Just got off the phone with Toshiba. They told me their warranty does not cover anything "cosmetic" What a crock. I'm going to BB to bitch. I've probably spent $5K in that store, if I yell loud enough maybe someone will listen

[reeltrouble1]

You need to find a reason under "warranty" to replace the entire unit. Creativty may be necessary.

In the mean time if BB does not come through, screw them, I can say CC has been good to me about things like this when I returned stuff to them under their extended warranty. But I have to say I verified the item was not working before it went back.

Good Luck!!

[polkatese]

Ken, if it is proven that it's manufacturing defective (i.e. no sign of abused, dropped, scratch paint/finish, etc.) then what the hell with these people (tech, BB, Toshiba)...boy, I'am pissed on your behalf, now. Raise hell with BB, if it failed, take it back home, buy another one exactly the same, and swap it. It's ain't ethical, but WTH,........(breathe, in, out, in, out)

[shack]

The warranty does not say anything about "cosmetic" vs mechanical...it just says defective!...and IMHO anything that is cracked after 3 months is either installed improperly or a defective manufactured item. Keep after them.

[wlrandall]

Rig a cord so you can plug it into the dryer outlet and fry the thing. If it's not a universal voltage model, this will work. Otherwise just clip a couple traces in an unobscure area.

[Jstas]

I don't believe that I am going to say this but...

...in alot of TV's, there are copper wire leads that are very thin. Insulated but thin. If you take one of those butane torch soldering irons, you can do some damage and it looks like a bad lead.

Crack open the back of teh TV, there are probably screws holding the back cover on. Look for a small, out of the way wire and take the torch and burn through a wire or two, close to the board. It will look like a bad solder joint if they do "investigate" and in most cases, will stop the TV from working properly.

BTW, most of the small wires deal with the TV tuner, antenna and it's broadcast signal processing. Damaging those wires means the TV still works but does not receive any stations. That is enough to warrant a complete exchange or they send the TV back to Toshiba for repair.

It's a risky thing to do but I've seen what can happen when a technician isn't careful and does it accidentally. It can really screw things up.

The irons can be expensive but they are useful for things other than soldering too. So it's not a useless tool.

[ken brydson]

Good news. Just got back from BB. After an hour or being told no by 5 different people they realized that I wasn't going away.
Came home with a brand new set. :D
Word of the day.......persistence.

I'll file all the devious ideas for future reference :cool:

[Ron-P]

Yep, that happened to me with my 3 month old Sony Sat. Receiver.

I paid $99 for the complete package self-install set-up (receiver, dish and install kit). The receiver died after 3 months. They tried to fix it, but could not. Contacted Sony, they did nothing.

Went in BB, put up a fuss. Got a newer model unit, $50 refund and a $10 gift card. All for being a BIG dick! I basically got away with an entire Sat system for $39.

Sometimes, It pays to be a DICK.

Glad to hear everything worked out for ya Ken.


Peace Out~:D

[madmax]

They may be telling you the truth if it is over 90 days. If under 90 days then they should repair or replace it. Service agreements do not normally cover cosmetic issues. However, if the crack should somehow (???) develop into a much larger crack and cause functionally problematic issues such as allowing the tube to become loose they would probably cover it. :D

[ken brydson]

Originally posted by madmax
They may be telling you the truth if it is over 90 days. If under 90 days then they should repair or replace it. Service agreements do not normally cover cosmetic issues. However, if the crack should somehow (???) develop into a much larger crack and cause functionally problematic issues such as allowing the tube to become loose they would probably cover it. :D

Actually it was more like 60. I looked at the receipt and saw we bought it 11/22. And they still gave me grief.
Oh well, as Ron said being a DICK is a good thing

[polkatese]

Great job, Ken! and see how much love in this forum.....some of these ideas I never thought of :)

[Airplay355]

i really liked the buy another and swap idea, im definitely saving that one for later haahaa

[goingganzo]

abc dont warentt the rca on the back of the tv with their extended warentee.

[ken brydson]

Originally posted by goingganzo
abc dont warentt the rca on the back of the tv with their extended warentee.

I'm gonna have to dig out the secret decoder ring for this one.......

[jd45177]

I feel your pain...

Included is a letter I fired off to Best Buy today -

"To Whom It May Concern,

I would like to share a recent experience I had while shopping at a Best Buy store on 1/15/04. My mother was with me and I was helping her shop for a replacement television. My brand of choice is Toshiba and we entered Store #494. The sales assistant at that store was very pleasant and helpful. This store had the television I wanted in stock, M/N 32A43 for $449. A local hhgregg store had theirs marked down to $400 but they did not have the television in stock. The Best Buy sales assistant said she could match that price. However, the store did not have the television stand we wanted in stock. She checked the inventory of surrounding stores and she said that Store #154 had both the stand and eleven of the televisions in stock. She said that that store would honor the $400 price and for that store to call her if there was any question. So, my mother and I drove to that store.

We were "assisted" by a sales assistant named "Doug". I told him the M/N of the set we wanted, he said there were none in stock. I told him that the lady at the other store said they had eleven in stock. He said, "well, computers don't always tell the truth." After looking at the televisions on display, I found M/N 32A43 on display and pointed it out to Doug. He then checked and yes, they did indeed have eleven in stock. Then he said they couldn't match hhgregg's price, I told him that the lady at the other store said to call her if there was a question and I then asked to speak to a manager. Doug came back and said that they would honor the price. Then, when I told him the stand we wanted, Doug stated, "that stand will only support 170 lbs and the TV weighs 260 lbs." I pointed out that the information on the stand stated that it would support up to a 36" TV and that it had a five-year warranty and I went ahead and purchased the stand. Upon assembling the stand at my mother’s home, the specifications for the television stated the weight of the TV was 111 lbs and the specification for the stand stated it would support 240 lbs. Doug was trying to sell a higher priced stand! This fellow had the worst attitude of any sales person I have ever encountered. It was as if he couldn’t sell us the higher priced items, he didn’t want to be bothered.

Then, my mother applied for a Best Buy credit card to take advantage of the 18-month same-as-cash financing. The initial credit card approval was for $500. The stand and television together came to almost $700. My mother wanted to write a check for the difference but Doug said he couldn’t accept it, that it would be best for her to go back to the service desk and have customer service make a telephone call to increase her credit limit to match the purchase price. This was approved and we were finally on our way.

The next day, Friday, 1/16, my brother-n-law drove to the store to pick up the television and the stand. He had all of the paperwork with him and he had to wait 65 minutes to have it loaded onto his truck.

Last week, my mother received a letter stating that she had the Credit Shield insurance. My mother called and said she didn’t ask for this insurance and that she didn’t want it. She then received pressure to purchase it by statements made to her such as “well, if your television is stolen or hit by lightening, what are you going to do?” My mother said her homeowners insurance would cover such a loss.

A few days ago, my mother received a letter from Household Credit Services requesting her income information. My mother called the telephone number included and she was told the information was required in order to receive approval for a Platinum MasterCard she had requested. She said she had not requested such a card, she didn’t want it and she asked how they had obtained her name. She was told that Best Buy provided her name to them. This was not the same card she requested from Best Buy used for purchasing the television and stand. So it would seem that Best Buy is in the practice of selling their customer lists!

This experience by far has been the worst shopping experience my mother has ever had as well as the worst I have ever had. I can assure you that neither she nor I will ever step foot in a Best Buy store ever again, for any reason. Furthermore, in addition to sending this e-mail to Best Buy customer service, I am also sending a hard copy of this letter to Best Buy Corporate Headquarters in Minnesota, I am posting it on every audio/video bulletin board that I frequent on the Internet, I am posting it on the alt.home-theater.misc newsgroup and I will never squander an opportunity to share this experience with any friend or acquaintance I now have or will have in the future.

Sincerely,
David Allen"

[dorokusai]

I would emplore both of you to file a complaint with the BBB.

Legitimate problems with businesses, as the two of you gentlemen have experienced, are exactly why the BBB exists.

http://www.bbb.org/

[kberg]

Originally posted by Airplay355
i really liked the buy another and swap idea, im definitely saving that one for later haahaa

The problem with this idea is that the retailer retaliates by reselling your swapped unit as new to somebody else. This has happened to me a few times at ABC Warehouse. I mean, c'mon, I open the box and find the plastic wrap containing speaker/AVR manuals opened along with batteries already in the remote? Back they went along with an attitude!

And those extended warrantees? Jesus, what a complete waste of hard earned dough, IMO. Instead of the BB or CC guy telling you it's worth GOLD and that you can bring the unit back "for any reason" (yeah, RIGHT!), I'd rather just take the unit back under the standard warrantee and bitch at them in front of other customers until they can do nothing else but give you what you want. If something happens after the standard warrantee expires, then my tough luck. I'll chance it.

[Kpt_Krunch]

Oh boy - am I ever going to get flamed here :(

Listen guys, first of all I completely agree with all your comments. But as far as I know - and I may be mistaken as I am assuming a lot - the employees of Best Buy (& other retailers) get paid at least min. wage. The management team get a bit more money, and then they have to pay for the merchandise, the rent/lease of the building, utilities, etc.

These guys are in it to MAKE MONEY. How the hell can they do that if you 'cherry pick' them to death, and then complain.

What the hell do you guys expect!!!! For one thing, they are dirt cheap. You can't get great service, bend over backwards help, and the best deal in town to boot! Don't like them - then DON"T SHOP THERE. I'm sick and tired of reading posts like this (I know, then don't read them - once in a while though the complaints are legit - I didn't see any legit problems in this thread).

I recently purchased a PW2200 sub from a 'high end' shop. No extended warranties, no problems at all with anything you guys are complaining about - but it sure as hell didn't cost me $400.00

If you want a cheap price, and go to BB, CC, etc. , then you better expect this EVERY FRICKING TIME! You know this. You DON"T HAVE TO BUY THE WARRANTY - IT'S NOT BB's FAULT IF YOU DID. The items I have bought in the past from similar shops I just say no thanks. If they push, I tell them that I intend on upgrading the component by the time the factory warranty is done, so why would I want to buy an extended. If they persist at that point, I just walk away, but that has only happened to me once. As I said in the paragraph above - high end shops don't need to push extended warranty's on you as they make enough money off you to begin with.

As for the crack in the TV - c'mon now. tell the truth! You said yourself you bought it for the "kid's", give ME a freakin break! CRACKS don't just happen. If it was OOTB, then OK, you got a beef. But you had it for 2 months +. I don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce one of your kids, or your kids friends, cracked it themselves. Maybe they tried to move it.

You think people at BB are stupid, Toshiba? I have a 37" Mitsy that is 12 years old. I have moved it (with help) 4 times. No cracks in that baby, but whaddya think would happen if I dropped it.

Now, flame away at me if you want, but just remember:

1. No one is telling you to shop at BB - go spend some money at a high end shop. You will pay a lot more for a better product, but you won't have to worry about 'extended warranty's. Oh, and these guy's ARE NOT gullible - if your tv 'cracks', and it is human error, not manufacturer error, you WILL NOT get any refund or exchange. Consider yourself very fortunate you got the exchange from BB - that was very nice of them even though they 'gave you the runaround', it's more like you gave them the runaround IMHO

2. BB has to make money some how, if they don't, you won't have a BB to go to (try taking your Mom into a high end shop next time, just add a zero to your purchase price). Oh, and I guess no one reads anything anymore - on all 'match' and 'beat' ads in every store I've seen, the item must be IN STOCK, and not a 'DEMO', a "DEMO" is UNIQUE to the store it's in. If a store matches the price, that is a sign of good service, not bad, and you should appreciate it, not EXPECT it!

3. Warranties - both manufacturers and extended, cover MANUFACTURER defects, not HUMAN defects. What would you do if I bought a TV off you, say at a garage sale, and called you the next week to say there was 'crack' in the case. Would you:

a) take it back and refund my money

or

b) Tell me it wasn't 'cracked' when it left and then tell me to take a hike.

I would bet on b)

Now, flame away - but I DO NOT work at BB, nor do I shop a BEST BUY, except for DVD's and CD's when they are on sale. I'm just stating the obvious here that no one seems to get - feel like I'm in the low end retail 'twlight zone' here.

[F1nut]

"What the hell do you guys expect!!!! For one thing, they are dirt cheap. You can't get great service, bend over backwards help, and the best deal in town to boot!"

AMEN! I posted a similar comment in another thread that has now been deleted b/c of the server upgrade. It's nice to know I'm not alone with my thoughts.

".....feel like I'm in the low end retail 'twlight zone' here."

Ya think!?!

[Kpt_Krunch]

Wow - thanks F1nut - I know my post is 'strongly' worded. The best metaphor I can use to describe it is what you would do with someone who is 'hysterical', and is to 'slap' them in the face to 'snap' them out of it. I'm sure I'm still gonna get flamed, but the reason why I felt compelled to post this is that it is people like that that cause the honest people the 'headaches' at retail stores to begin with.

Thanks for the support!

[F1nut]

Just to clarify, I agree with Ken's thought's that his TV should have been fixed/replaced IF it was a defect (we'll see what happens 3 months from now), but I also agree with your comment, "You can't get great service, bend over backwards help, and the best deal in town to boot!", when it comes to stores like that.

The thing that really gets me are the folks who complain that the mark up on a $500.00 pair of speakers (example) is too much or complain that after they purchased a heavily discounted floor model that something is missing/not right. Pluuuuuease! Do people really think that a company can stay in business selling a product for $10.00 over cost.

Kpt, a reality check is always a good thing. Let the flames begin....lol.

[jd45177]

The $ savings was of little concern. I just wanted that specific Toshiba model, at a reduced cost if I could. But I would have bought it at full MSRP as well. The sales person was as rude and arrogant as I have ever seen and because of that and the follow-up bullcrap, I am exercising my choice to never shop at Best Buy again, plain and simple.

Over the years, I have bought at Circuit City, Rex, hhgregg, Sears, and many, many other places and I have never been subjected to the crap we went through that night. I know that stores have to make money, that's the reason they're in business...but they DON'T have to treat people like shit while doing it!

[ken brydson]

Krunch
You're worse than BB. At least they didn't call me a liar. The TV developed a crack. It wasn't there when I set it up 2 mo's ago. It's been in an entertainment center since I got it and I doubt my 5 and 7 year old were trying to move it. Give me a break!
I don't care where you buy a product. The store and/or the manufacturer should stand behind it at LEAST for the warranty period but ESPECIALLY after only 2 months.
I'm not going to flame you because you're entitled to your opinion. I'm just surprised that anyone would have the notion that just because they bought something at a certain store that they should take it in the ass if something goes wrong.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Ken,
Do you have a SVS perhaps?

If you do...

Do you think...

That could have cracked the tv ;) ???

[danger boy]

I was in CC today looking for a "Y" splitter to hook up my computers sound card to the rear of a recevier.. easy huh? I went online to CC web site, found that they carried the particular cable i needed and went down to CC to pick one up.

After talking to two of the sales guys..neither one knew what i was talking about. so I showed them on their web site the cable i needed. I thought maybe a lightbulb would go off and say "oh yeah you need this cable right here" instead no. they said all their monster cables only have RCA connectors on em. FINE!!!

I searched the store myself and found the damn cable. I went to the sales guy and showed him where they keep em.. he was embarrassed i'm sure.

anyway.. i don't expect sale people to know all the products they carry.. there are prob hundreds if not thousands in stock. But at least have a clue about what you sell. and be informed.

that's my story for the day.. and i'm sticking to it. ;)

[shack]

Originally posted by Kpt_Krunch Oh boy - am I ever going to get flamed here
AS WELL YOU SHOULD BE! I agree with Ken here. Where the hell do you come off telling another member of this forum that they are lying about what happened to his TV. You basically said he broke the TV and wanted a new one for free. What a load of S##T!

These guys are in it to MAKE MONEY. How the hell can they do that if you 'cherry pick' them to death, and then complain. As far as your take on retailers, I have been in the business world for over 30 years and I am very pro-business, pro-capitalism. Businesses have a right (and a responsiblity to the shareholders) to make money. HOWEVER, BB and other retailers decide how they will do business. They decide what segment to be in. They have to figure out how to make money in the environment they choose and treat the customers right at the same time. If not they need get out or change strategies.

You DON"T HAVE TO BUY THE WARRANTY - IT'S NOT BB's FAULT IF YOU DID. No...but they asked you to buy it and if you do, then they have a responsibility to hold up their end of the bargain.

If you want a cheap price, and go to BB, CC, etc. , then you better expect this EVERY FRICKING TIME! You know this.
It's BB's and CC's, etc... responsibility to deliver what they claim they they are delivering. They"claim to have "price, product, knowledge, service, etc..." and that is what they should deliver.

What the hell do you guys expect!!!!
See my point(s) above.

[Kpt_Krunch]

Originally posted by ken brydson
Krunch
You're worse than BB. At least they didn't call me a liar.



I never called you a liar, I'm just taking an alternative point of view Ken. Obviously, being as defensive as you are, you are suspecting a similar thing. You just won't admit it. I hope you're not a Police Officer or a Judge, being how quick to conclusions you come without examining all possibilities.

[jd45177]

Krunch is going on my Ignore List. He may not have come right out and called Ken a liar, but he left no doubt of his implication. Krunch needs to spend his time on IRC or in the newsgroups, where such a mentality is to be expected.

[Kpt_Krunch]

Originally posted by jd45177
Krunch is going on my Ignore List. He may not have come right out and called Ken a liar, but he left no doubt of his implication. Krunch needs to spend his time on IRC or in the newsgroups, where such a mentality is to be expected.

hmmmm, one point of view. How old are you? Somone offers something different, that doesn't agree with you, and you plug your ears and go na na na. How old are you JD?

As for calling Ken a liar, I find parents (and I am one) want to believe in their children. All things being equal - what is MORE LIKELY - a T.V. Case just cracking all by itself, or maybe a couple of kids fighting over a T.V show to watch, or getting beat in a video game, losing their tempers and acting out as children are want to do.

I did not imply Ken was liar - trust me, if I thought he was, I wouldn't beat around the bush. From what I read in his posts, I think Ken really does believe the set cracked on its own. And maybe it did, I'm just offering an alternative, and giving Kudo's to BB for replacing it. Even though Ken got the 'runaround', what store wouldn't have? It's no like the Power Supply went, the electronics shorted with no evidence of moisture, or the Picture Tube went. I guarantee you if that's what happened, Ken would have had a new set no ?'s asked. And if the new set cracks? I guess either Toshiba is going out of business, or there is more to the story than Ken knows.

So, ignore me, flame me if you will. I just felt I had to give an alternative point of view, and I had to invoke some emotion :D

[LuSh]

I find it laughable that a TV develops a "crack". You mentioned 3 young children. Honestly, i've never in my 27 years heard of a TV "cracking".

If a person bought a TV off of me, and I sold them ext. warrenty. They come back to me with a cracked TV, I'm saying sorry you cracked it. And I dont work for BB. It's just good sense.

If you buy a Car and get a flat tire within the first month do you go back to the car dealership where you bought the car?

Take responsiblity. Don't pass the buck. Your angry that you bought warrenty and that you never had a chance to use it.

Perhaps I'm wrong and its common for TV's to crack. I highly doubt it. If the roles were reversed you'd do the same. If it was your own business you'd never think of giving service to a TV that has had physical abuse done to it.

[Kpt_Krunch]

Originally posted by shack
AS WELL YOU SHOULD BE! I agree with Ken here. Where the hell do you come off telling another member of this forum that they are lying about what happened to his TV. You basically said he broke the TV and wanted a new one for free. What a load of S##T!

Really Shack - so your saying if someone bought a TV off you at a garage sale for their kids, and brought it back to you a month later asking for the money back because it was cracked, you would refund him/her? That is what your saying you know! When's your next garage sale?

As far as your take on retailers, I have been in the business world for over 30 years and I am very pro-business, pro-capitalism. Businesses have a right (and a responsiblity to the shareholders) to make money. HOWEVER, BB and other retailers decide how they will do business. They decide what segment to be in. They have to figure out how to make money in the environment they choose and treat the customers right at the same time. If not they need get out or change strategies.

Do you deal with the public every day Shack, or do you sit behind a desk? Just asking, I'm not accusing you of anything, I just want to know more about you before I 'hear' you. I have worked retail in my younger days, and have seen every trick in the book. It is the bad apples that spoil the whole bunch. Many people make a living at ripping off Retail stores, the retail stores HAVE TO PUT stringent rules in place for EVERYONE - even honest people! If you would realize that when you go into a store to begin with, you will deal with these things differently and a lot better!



It's BB's and CC's, etc... responsibility to deliver what they claim they they are delivering. They"claim to have "price, product, knowledge, service, etc..." and that is what they should deliver.

See, your a 'business man' for 30 years, so even you know you get what you pay for? How can a store offer low prices, low wages, and 'superior service'. That just isn't going to happen. You find qualified people at high end shops where they have high commissions. As a business man for 30 years you would know that. You would also know a slogan like "We have low prices because we hire anybody off the street that we can bond so we can pass on the savings to you" wouldn't really look good, now would it :D

Originally posted by LuSh
Take responsiblity.

Ahhh, isn't that the real issue? This generation more than any other refuses responsibility for anything anymore. Hence high insurance rates, mistreatment at stores, distrust. And it is only going to get worse.

For all the youngsters reading this thread - you will get a lot farther in the long run with honesty and integrity. As Al Pacino says in Scarface "the only thing I have in this life I can call my own are my balls and my word, and I don't break them for no one". He did, and he paid for it.

[Zero]

I have kept myself fairly distant from hot topics on all the various boards I visit. Frankly, sitting in idle is quite boring. It’s time to get back into the fray.

Ken,

First and foremost, it is a bummer that your television had a problem. It is definitely no fun lugging around such a weighty piece of equipment. I’ve been through that song and dance before.

May I also be so bold as to say that you should be giving yourself multiple pats on the back for convincing Best Buy to give you a new television. They had every right not to comply with your demand. If anything, your persistence and giving them the run-around paid off. It is nice to win a little. I have no reason not to believe your word. Lets face it, unusual things occur with products. However, most extended warranties will not cover physical cosmetic damage’s for very obvious reasons.

While you may have sincerely had an issue with the television, there are many others who would quickly and purposely damage their product and claim it is a manufacturers error. 9 times out of 10, any physical damages are induced by a person or persons… whether its by intention or mistake. No company should be responsible for any damages that are most likely caused by something far outside of their control or more-over, their responsibility.

Do not take my above comments as an insult. If anything, you had every right to be angry with the associate that informed you they could repair the unit, which then resulted in you taking everything apart and hauling it up there. This is an unfortunate situation where the associate gave false information. This is probably the reason why you came home with a brand new set. Bottom of the line is, you lucked out. Enjoy the TV bud, hopefully that one will not develop any issue’s.

DangerBoy,

Odds are they were not embarrassed. I am nearly sure of it. Though I must say, it is a sad day when someone in that department is not aware of what a Y cable is. Sorry to hear of that


Kpt_Krunch,

Do you feel better now? Venting off that steam must have lost you quite a few pounds. I actually concur with a majority of what you said. While many people feel there should be no compromise between good prices and good service, the reality is, there will be in most case scenarios.

There are a few educated people who expect nothing more than an attentive salesman who can provide decent service and decent knowledge. Such people realize and understand that many of these associates at these large chain stores may not know all there is to know about their specialty. Unfortunately, that is not the majority. Many people are under the false impression that the sales associate at Best Buy or Circuit City should be the bastion of all that is electronic knowledge. And let’s not even get on peoples expectations and pet peeves about salesmanship.

There will always be a compromise out there. I can tell you that Circuit City is not the best of employers. If I did not sell the extended warranties or the bullshit monster cables on nearly every ticket – it meant my job.

You made some good points, but may I suggest using a different tact? It is a shame to see logic being marred by such an aggressive attitude.

Gentlemen,

God knows most of us have had very valid run-in’s against companies like Circuit City and Best Buy. Just try not to become complacent about who they are and what their goal is. Expect good treatment and good service, but not a silver platter. That’s what hi-fi shops are for.

[Kpt_Krunch]

Originally posted by ATCVenom


Kpt_Krunch,

Do you feel better now? Venting off that steam must have lost you quite a few pounds. I actually concur with a majority of what you said. While many people feel there should be no compromise between good prices and good service, the reality is, there will be in most case scenarios.




ATC - I do feel better. Unfortunately I have read too many posts of this nature, like you. I wanted my post to be a 'slap' in the face. Believe it or not I was smiling while composing it. :D

Your post is very succinct and well said. Good job!

[Zero]

Kpt Krunch,

Don't ask me why, but I somehow get this sensation that it will not be the last time a thread of this sort will rear its head again.

One final word on this subject;

Many of my fellow associates who were not only well informed, but truly concerned with the welfare of their customers have left such companies due to the poor treatment they received. A change in service doesn't just begin with the associate and store management, it begins with you. Please, contact coorperate offices and express your concern/displeasure if such an opportune moment presents itself!

Sean

[shack]

My initial comment was based on:As for the crack in the TV - c'mon now. tell the truth!
Spin it how you will...to me, when you make this statement it says you don't think his original statement was factual.

Really Shack - so your saying if someone bought a TV off you at a garage sale for their kids, and brought it back to you a month later asking for the money back because it was cracked, you would refund him/her? That is what your saying you know! When's your next garage sale?

This is the worst analogy you could possibly come up with. A garage sale with "USED" goods sold "AS IS" vs a retailer selling "NEW" merchandise from a manufacturer with a written as well as an implied warranty of merchantability against "defects". Let's say you buy a set of Polk speakers from CC. Two and one half months from now (Ken's timeframe) the wood veneer starts to peel off. It's only "cosmetic", does not affect the performance of the speaker and chances are you caused it. CC and Polk have no liability? Buy a new car and the paint fades (doesn't crack off and is still doing its job protecting the metal from rust)...it's just "cosmetic". The dealer only got $30 over invoice on the sale and couldn't have made much money. No need for the Mfg to fix it? My point is this - (the extended warranty is NO issue here) if it occured as Ken stated that the TV developed cracks, then the manufacturer "may" have used a faulty part. Problems with the mold, problems with the plastic, problems in the assembly, etc...They should fix it.

Do you deal with the public every day Shack
Yes. And I've been around retail all of my life. My father was the controller for a regional retailer and I worked summers and weekends in the business. I worked in the warehouse loading trucks, driving trucks. worked in the offices, worked with the computer systems. Worked part time (30 hrs/week) all through college at Sears selling paint and harware and tools. I deal with the public EVERY day. I know how to sell, I know how to provide service and I know how to make money (and no - I'm not in retail).

See, your a 'business man' for 30 years, so even you know you get what you pay for? How can a store offer low prices, low wages, and 'superior service'. I only expect what THEY offer and promise. If they can't do what they say, they shouldn't make the claims. Besides...pick up a copy of the Wall Street Journal on any given day...and chances are there will be an article about how a business has determined that they must provide more service, better products, more quality, better response, etc...etc... all at a cheaper price (and make a profit doing it). It is not the ultimate goal...it is the minimum required to compete!
Take responsiblity If Toshiba and not Ken is responsible for the cracks then they should make it right.

I'm done...you can take my business philosophy for what it is worth...It didn't cost you anything.

My original point of contention was that I believe you called out Ken for being less than truthful. It was not necessary.

[Kpt_Krunch]

Originally posted by ATCVenom
Kpt Krunch,

Don't ask me why, but I somehow get this sensation that it will not be the last time a thread of this sort will rear its head again.

One final word on this subject;

Many of my fellow associates who were not only well informed, but truly concerned with the welfare of their customers have left such companies due to the poor treatment they received. A change in service doesn't just begin with the associate and store management, it begins with you. Please, contact coorperate offices and express your concern/displeasure if such an opportune moment presents itself!

Sean

You're right of course Sean, it is a corporate culture inherient with the company. Especially if it is a Publically Traded company. The best way to send your message is not to shop there. Unfortuantely, especially in the times we live in, there will always be a place for BB's and such. When I go in a store like BB, I comfortable with the fact that I probably (but not always) know more then the people there, as I do a lot of research on items I am interested in purchasing before going in. It is unrealistic to expect a BB or CC employee to be as knowledgable on 'all' their products, especially since they are constantly changing them.

[Kpt_Krunch]

Originally posted by shack
My initial comment was based on:
Spin it how you will...to me, when you make this statement it says you don't think his original statement was factual.



This is the worst analogy you could possibly come up with. A garage sale with "USED" goods sold "AS IS"


Yes. And I've been around retail all of my life. My father was the controller for a regional retailer and I worked summers and weekends in the business. I worked in the warehouse loading trucks, driving trucks. worked in the offices, worked with the computer systems. Worked part time (30 hrs/week) all through college at Sears selling paint and harware and tools. I deal with the public EVERY day. I know how to sell, I know how to provide service and I know how to make money (and no - I'm not in retail).



I'm done...you can take my business philosophy for what it is worth...It didn't cost you anything.

My original point of contention was that I believe you called out Ken for being less than truthful. It was not necessary.

OK - I paraphrased your quotes a bit. I'm going to tell you (and anyone else reading this) a couple of stories - true stories btw. I hope this will clear it up a bit as to where I am coming from, though I am not trying to dissuade you from your opinion. Your opinion is as valid as mine, and holds as much weight as mine, as does everyone else who posts here - I sure do like these forums :)

Anyway - Story one - A retail story:

Most stores require a receipt for refunds - this is one example as to why:

Company 'A''s warehouse was robbed. The bandits did not have a lot of time and took mostly small stuff. As it was a 'grocery' chain, cigarettes and film (35mm) were targeted.

Throughout the next few weeks, the bandits and/or their associates would go to Company 'B' and buy a roll of the 35mm film that they stole. During the sale they would chat up the cashier, make eye contact, etc. politely thank them then leave when the sale was completed.

Five minutes later, they would return with the film and go to the same cashier who sold it to them, asking for a refund, using the excuse "bought the wrong speed, wife got some, 35mm wrong type", whatever. Of course the cashier would ask for the receipt, to which the customer would reply either "I don't have one", or "I lost it" or "You didn't give me one", but "C'mon, I was here just 5 minutes ago". Since the cashier of course remembered the customer and the sale, and wanted to do the right thing for customer service, she gave the refund.

Well, I guess I don't have to draw you a picture here now do I, the thief now has the film stolen from company 'A', and a receipt for it from Company 'B'. ChaChing!

This is one example of many ways people use to trick retailers. This story has nothing to do with Ken and his cracked TV of course, but it does explain partly why BB and other retailers are so skeptical of this type or any type of return

Story 2 (Last one, I promise :) ) A boy and his dog :(

Two years ago this spring, I was driving my wife to the Doctor's for an ultrasound. Turned on the radio, and heard the story. A 10 year old boy went to the park with his 70lb dog German Shepherd cross, 2 1/2 years old. The boy was playing on the swings when 3 older boys, aprox. 14 to 16 years of age, came upon him. They bullied the 10 year old boy, and thought it would be a neat trick to hang his 2 1/2 year old German Shepherd from the jungle gym (or whatever those things are called) and force the boy to watch it. So, after the horror of this, the 3 boys fled the scene, leaving the 10 year old boy alone with his dead, strangled dog. Eventually the boy found his way to a nearby house where he called home, and of course the Police were called.

Luckily the boy was able to paint a very vivid description of these teenagers that did this. Now, memory is faint here on my part as the descriptions, but there was specific jacket colours given, one boy had flaming red hair with abnormally long eyebrows that he had twisted into 'devil handlebars', so bascially these kids were going to stick out.

Now, of course my wife and I, along with the rest of the city, were absolutely horrified by this incident. I coudn't belive I lived in a place where people would this. In the meantime, the Radio Station is getting call after call from people, wanting to make donations, wanting to organize groups to canvas the neighborhood, anything to help catch these teenagers as quickly as possible.

Due to the internet, this story spread like wild fire. The family started to get unsolicted donations from people in the states (New Mexico or Arizona I believe).

Now, I happen to own a slightly over weight 73lb Airedale Terrier. I can lift him up no problem when he wants me to. But if he didn't, well it was pretty much next to impossible. So, I started really thinking about this objectively. How likely is it that 3 teenage boys can lift a 70lb German Shepherd cross onto Jungle Gym, tie his leash up to the post, and then throw the dog off an hang him. Is it possible? Anything is. Is it likely, not very. So, I called BullS#*t. And guess what, like my post here, I got a lot of my friends dissing me out, saying how on earth could a 10 year old boy lift a dog up there. I didn't have an answer, I just thought there must be another explanation.

Now, guess who was right? 3 days later, the boy confessed. He wanted to play on the swings and slides, and no one was in the park. He didn't want his dog to run away, so he coaxed his dog up the steps to the slide in the Jungle Gym, tied his leash up to the side, and proceed to slide down the slide. Of course his dog wanted to follow him and jumped.

Now, I'm sure this poor 10 year old boy will be scared for life. Who wouldn't be. I took no solace that I was right for that reason. My concern was there may be a teen out there who matched the 10 year old boys description. Now, that poor innocent teen could have been beaten or worse by an angry mob before the truth came out.

Ok Ok, what has this story have to do with a cracked T.V. , nothing. However, kids will sometimes make up stories to cover up their mistakes. I'm sure Ken, being a responsible parent, asked his children what happened to the T.V. Now, I am not saying what happened or didn't happen, but lets suppose the 5 year old was watching teletubbies, and the 7 year old wanted to watch another show, and the two had an argument, and one of them threw something at the T.V. and cracked it. Ken comes home, discovers the crack (maybe a few days later), ask the kids what happened. What is the most likely response from a child "Gee Dad, I got mad and threw/hit/whatever and cracked it", or "Gee Dad, I don't know, I didn't even notice it before".

Now, I am done with this thread. I do believe Ken's intentions are honorable. He even stated the T.V. was for the kids to begin with. I have no doubt that Ken believes the T.V. cracked on it's own, and I do humbly apologize if you read 'liar' in my post. The intent was to 'slap' you in the face and look at it more objectively, not from within. I'm sure the first time my child is accused of something my first reaction will be "Not my Son, he wouldn't do that", but I hope it is not.

Just don't always diss the B&M retailers. The people there work long, hard hours, take crap from people just about every hour of the day, and get ZERO support from their company even though they are only doing what they are told do to. Remember, there are always 'two' sides to every story, and both should be explored thoroughly, as you will find truths on both sides, before you pass judgement.

Enjoy the new T.V. Ken, I honestly hope you have better luck with the new one! :)

[ken brydson]

I can't believe I have to defend myself on this. Oh well. Here are a few thoughts.
1) I realize you get what you pay for. I didn't go to BB for advise. I researched for the set I wanted and went there to buy it. Plain and simple. Best price and financing, no brainer

2) I wasn't sold the ESP, I told them I wanted it before they even went into that speel. I don't normally buy extended warranties but I figured $50 for 4 years of piece of mind, no brainer.

3) Never seen plastic crack on its own? Are you kidding? it's plastic. It breaks all the time. Frame could have been tweeked or something during assembly or shipping. The pressure of 100+ lbs on a weakened point over a few months couldn't cause a crack?

4) If I or my kids broke the set, would I post about it here? NO! I might try to see if I could get it repaired or replaced but I certainly wouldn't post about it. Lets see how it would sound..... "Hey guys- I dropped my new TV trying to get it out of the box. BB says they won't fix it. Them assholes......

I shouldn't have to defend my honesty or integrity here. I'm offended that you would question either. I'm done:(

[kberg]

So Ken,

Are you more pissed that you started this thread than you were with the TV issue? ;)

[Tour2ma]

ken,
No need to defend your self here. Just realize you're dealing with a troll in search of being right for the second time in his life.

Oh Captain,
Originally posted by Kpt_Krunch
OK - I paraphrased your quotes a bit. And the point of doing this was???

I do humbly apologize if you read 'liar' in my post. The intent was to 'slap' you in the face and look at it more objectively, not from within. Perhaps an objective reread of your original post should be on your "to-do" list, however, I fail to see where "slapping" is significantly more laudable an intent.

Oddest thing to me is that you never addressed those recommending to ken various "means" of enhancing his claim.

[ken brydson]

Originally posted by kberg
So Ken,

Are you more pissed that you started this thread than you were with the TV issue? ;)

yes 'cause I got the TV resolved :)

[dave shepard]

SSOOOO this is how you get your post count up.......Humm.....:D

Dave

P.S. one mor for meeee!!!!

[madmax]

TV cases do crack on their own. Maybe only a tenth of a percent or less but they do. As far as I can tell it is probably due to a weak spot in the material. The ones I see are normally around the bottom center. If you look closely you will see that even if you removed all the guts you couldn't push the crack back together. That tells me it tried to shrink. I can't imagine a store giving a customer a hard time about it. I do understand why service agreements do not cover such cosmetic things but the original warranty normally does. Lets face it, if the consumer is unhappy he will not want to come back. The store can mark it down 10 to 15% and sell it to someone who doesn't care and probably talk the customer into upgrading. Customer satisfaction is FAR more important than saving a few dollars. Over a few years one customer can buy a lot of stuff from a particular store.
madmax

[brettw22]

LOL....this is funny shit.

Ken, you don't have to defend yourself at all. Krunch obviously has made his 'slap' and I think that it's been noted that his posting style isn't appropriate.

Krunch, if you don't have the balls to outright call him a liar, then don't post the way you did. Simple.......

[Mrgecko]

lol, I didn't read all the posts but when I read one about discretely breaking it I had to chip in.

If they don't fix it, I guess your only option is to buy a new one and then return it, but swap them out first. Or, break it somehow so they do have to replace the thing.

With my POS compaq laptop (actually it's a nice comp, but it keeps breaking), they broke the CD drive while fixing something else. I had sent it in because a bearing was loose on a fan inside, so I guess they went through a checklist of what can cause loose, rattling noises inside, and determined it was my CD drive. They "fixed it" by somehow clocking down the drive to read at 2X max, instead of 24X like it should. They didn't fix the original problem either.
I didn't bother calling them about it to complain, the Indian tech guys are nice and all, they try their best, but they don't have the contacts or the authority to get anything done besides obtain your address to send you a return box. I ended up dismanteling the drive and snipping some copper foil wires, so the drive wouldn't work at all. Then I told them this and they mailed me a brand new drive overnight.

Good luck.

[TN_Polk_Lover]

Kpt Krunch wrote:

Now, flame away - but I DO NOT work at BB, nor do I shop a BEST BUY, except for DVD's and CD's when they are on sale. I'm just stating the obvious here that no one seems to get - feel like I'm in the low end retail 'twlight zone' here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not going to flame you. But I do disagree with most of what you say. I live in the Nashville area and Best Buy usually has higher prices than either Circuit City, Sears, Electronic Express, or hhGregg. The exception might be one or two weekly specials which are at a really good price. That is how they generate traffic into the store by having just a few items at a really low price. For example, each week they will have a handful of CD's for 10.99 that normally sell for 14.99 or higher.

But, overall, I would say that their prices are close to normal retail. They DO make a lot of profit off of selling extended warrantees as do most other stores.

Also, Best Buy salespeople do not work on commission. They will usually tell you that when they ask if they can help you. If you say, no, I'm just browsing, they will say something like "OK, well, if you need any help, don't hesitate to ask any associate. We don't work on commission."

So, for that sales person to be so disagreeable and not want to sell a TV and stand that they obviously did have in stock is totally wrong. That person should be fired.

And, if you think that plastic parts cannot develop cracks at stress points all on their own you have never worked in a manufacturing environment! There would be a bad batch of the plastic pellets used, a worn out or broken machine that is doing the injection, lots of reasons.

So, if a TV develops a crack after 60 days and the store or manufacturer doesn't want to make it good -- shame on them!

Just my 2 cents.

[KeithV]

If any of you guys come into my store lemme know so I can pass you off to someone else, I need to sell extended warranties to keep my job.