Got this in email. What do you think?

[HBombToo]

Tax Cuts - A Simple Lesson In Economics

This is how the cookie crumbles. Please read it carefully.

Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh $7.
The eighth $12.
The ninth $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

"Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20."

So, now dinner for the ten only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share'?

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being 'PAID' to eat their meal.

So, the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man "but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. There are lots of good restaurants in Europe and the Caribbean.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D
Distinguished Professor of Economics
536 Brooks Hall
University of Georgia

[jdhdiggs]

Absolutely perfect!!! I can't tell you how many times I've had to have that argument with morons (Tax breaks for the rich, how dare they!!!!). I will be distributing that post shortly.

[RuSsMaN]

Very nice indeed.

[PolkWannabie]

Presactly ...

Unlike apparently most people believe, the more you make, the more they take and not just in terms of dollars, in terms of percentage.

[PolkThug]

Excellent read Henry!

[izafar]

Can someone answer that why the first four were eating free and the tenth man paying $59?

[shack]

Originally posted by izafar
Can someone answer that why the first four were eating free and the tenth man paying $59?
The example of the 10 men is a statistical mirror image of US individual taxpayers (sorted by income) and the food bill is the amount of taxes paid. The lowest 40% pay no taxes, the next 10% pays 1% of the total taxes, the next 10% pays 3% of the total taxes, etc...and the highest 10% pays 59% of the total taxes collected. This is an accurate representation!

[POLKOHOLIC]

Sounds Accurate. My Microeconomics Teacher Couldnt Explain It This Good!

[izafar]

Originally posted by shack
The example of the 10 men is a statistical mirror image of US individual taxpayers (sorted by income) and the food bill is the amount of taxes paid. The lowest 40% pay no taxes, the next 10% pays 1% of the total taxes, the next 10% pays 3% of the total taxes, etc...and the highest 10% pays 59% of the total taxes collected. This is an accurate representation!


OK, let me put my question this way: why the lowest 40% pay no taxes and the highest 10% pay 59% of the tax.

[POLKOHOLIC]

To Make Up FOr the 40% That Dont Pay Taxes?

[scottvamp]

Everybody wants to be the tenth man and they still have MORE money in the pockets at the end of the day. Doesn't mean they are better people or work any harder than the first four. And so the rich get richer and if the rich don't pay thier due share - they get even richer unlike the first four and therefore the whole point I am still searching. Because you guys are not millionaires you really don't know how much our financial systems benifites the rich. Believe me that BUY loop holes. But it does lend a simple understanding of the tax paying structure but WAY TOO MANY MORE structures involved. Just one example: because I am not currently contributing to the over population of the US I get to pay for everyone's children. Think about it........ How many pregnancies are actually planned with a financial structure and enviorment in place....... So we should all have as many children as possiable because we get HUGE tax breaks and other responsiable people have to pay for them. 33% taken - just to break even at the end of the year (single male at 30,000 a year) I bet the rich people a laughing at the way to the bank with that in mind....................
(Independent)
PS : My tax heart is NOT going out to Donald Trump or Shawn Puffy Combs.

[jdhdiggs]

Originally posted by scottvamp
And so the rich get richer and if the rich don't pay thier due share - they get even richer unlike the first four and therefore the whole point I am still searching.

Don't pay their share? What are you saying, that everyone should have their income capped and everything above a certain value goes to the government? The point is that when (typically dems, but whichever party didn't make the cuts) bitch about tax reductions, they quote that the rich (who pay 59% of all taxes) get the largest dollar value back, which is true. What they ignore is that an even larger percentage of the tax burden is then moved to that top 10%. Wouldn't a "fair share" be that guy number 10 get back $12 instead of $10? Then he would have had the same percentage change as he paid in. That would be "fair".

Hate to break it to you, but if the rich didn't get richer, guys 1-9 would most likely be out of a job in a bankrupt country.

*end rant*

I would also say that if you have heard about the US losing jobs over-sea's, well, that's a sign that guy number 10 is leaving without the check paid.

Also, the top 10% are not 7 figure salaries, but rather ~150-200K or so and up per household which means a chunk of people on the board are probably represented by guy number 10.

The whole idea of "buying" loopholes is also a misnomer. Sure, they can hire some accounted to invest their money in tax free bonds or buy an SUV as a business expense but they will STILL pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than 1-9 would unless they are doing something explicitely illegal, then they get arressted.

[scottvamp]

I agree with for the most part. Our system does promote the rich getting richer. Thats not something to be proud of. So if your saying thier or no RICH people to support the sytem then the anti-christ shows up and total destruction accures then OK - and I should call rich folk our new GOD. In part is true.........
But read what I am saying - who supports the rich people???. The "single responsiable guy" making (busting his ass for corporate greed) 30 to 40k a year (very good money in my land) paying out over 30% in taxes (thats over 30 cents of every dollar) just to break even at the end of the year..... Now think what that person has to do to keep some of that in his pocket:
*have as many children as possiable
*get into debt WAY over his head for the deductions - ultimately contributing to the national dept.
And to bad MANY of our so called GODS move or live partialy in other countries..........

[HBombToo]

I'm not sure if this is true but from what I have heard... only 10% of the general population make 100k and up.

The 1 thing I believe I disagree on is the regressive SS tax capping at ~85k. I don't believe it is right to allow incomes above 85k to go untaxed. but then again I'm not sure and this is very puzzeling to me....

HBomb

[scottvamp]

Both FACTS that support what I am saying......... No tax for "rich" people - ya go Bush!!!!!!!!!! Interesting that only 10% are in that braket, yet most of us "support" it........... WOW!!!!!!!

[izafar]

Hate to break it to you, but if the rich didn't get richer, guys 1-9 would most likely be out of a job in a bankrupt country.

that is only fine if every one gets richer. on the other hand if only rich is to get richer at the expense of poor getting poorer then every one knows what guys 1 to 9 will eventually end up doing.

[jdhdiggs]

Originally posted by scottvamp
[B]The "single responsiable guy" making (busting his ass for corporate greed) 30 to 40k a year (very good money in my land) paying out over 30% in taxes (thats over 30 cents of every dollar) B]

30% in taxes??? Damn, should of used H&R block. At $30K and single, he should ony have paid $3021, at $40K, 4,929. Assuming no other deductions (IRS Tax Table (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf)) . Looks more like 10-12.5% Where's the rest of it coming from? Sales tax? Only on non-neccessities...

As for the rich being gods? What planet are you on? If you want a TV, car, or even a stereo, you need entrepeneurs. The only way you have those is if they can make more money. If they can't make money here, they don't hire more workers here. If they can make money somewhere else, they will leave. Does this make them gods? Hell no.

Children? They cost a hell of a lot more than the tax break. Here you go: The $30K family with one kid goes from paying 3021 to 2571. A whopping $450 bucks per kid per year. Any deductions from interest only lower your taxes by the tax rate: I donate $1 to a charity, I save $0.25 on my taxes. How do you get ahead doing that? (Giving away money)

As for the wealthy moving away, the best way to help your 30K guy is for the rich guy to have some incentive to pay the guy $60K for his work. By sending him away, now your 30K guy HAS to pay 30% so that he can have roads to drive on, social security, and to keep the Canadians from invading! :p

Also, for the God comment? Uh, no sir. Anyone with half a brain can live off of the land and provide himself with everything he needs to live. That is given to him by God, not the rich. ;)

HBomb, your comment was what I heard around 95-96 so I upped the $ a bit, but you are right, it probably is in the ballpark.

[scottvamp]

30% for Federal, FICA, SS and State tax is pretty dam close in my world.

Look at your money - "In God We Trust." Think about it.

Actually H & R Block did my taxes years ago and I never got a dime back and they could not care less. They are thier to take a cut from the people who can't what a couple weeks for thier earned income credit and noone I know were doing it because they could not wait to spend it on thier kids. I have done my taxes electronically on the internet for years and I have got tons more back and learned alot in the process.

I believe many want to simply live off the land but then you have to pay taxes on that land.

As for as rich being GODS - not in my book but society - pay attention - what world are you living - the entire US is like the E! channel - when a rich person FARTS we MUST talk about it for a few minutes. The Hilton girls - BEN and JLOW were talked about more and in detail the Adam and Eve. I could go on and on......

;)

[jdhdiggs]

Originally posted by scottvamp
Both FACTS that support what I am saying......... No tax for "rich" people - ya go Bush!!!!!!!!!! Interesting that only 10% are in that braket, yet most of us "support" it........... WOW!!!!!!!

What are you talking about? No tax for the rich? You really need to read more about his plans. Actually, I would guess that 30%+ of the regular posters are in that bracket.

If you want to make over $100K, let me know. I can Guarantee that you can make that much here at TI if you don't mind working 70+hrs/week. I am serious, I will get anyone willing to move on their own cash a job pushing wafers (Assuming you have a GED or HS diploma) With OT and shift premiums, motivated guys make 100-120 a year. Then you will know how much in taxes these people pay.

What does the rich getting richer have anything to do with how poor the poor are? The poor typically get poorer because they continue to ask the wealthy for more $ so they get downsized or shipped offshore.

As for the SS cap, that's not THAT much of a break considering that those people can not typically use 401K's, IRA's and the like to save for retirement. It also means that they still pay the SS tax on their income upto $85K, not that they are excluded. These are also the people who are paying into a system that they will never use. Why should they pay for it?

[scottvamp]

The 1 thing I believe I disagree on is the regressive SS tax capping at ~85k. I don't believe it is right to allow incomes above 85k to go untaxed. but then again I'm not sure and this is very puzzeling to me....
I did not write this but have read the same on the news and such. Sorry but I do not have time to read what Bush has not done/ plans to do. I work for corperate greed which Bush explains in one of his commercials he wants to do away with yet has supported and passed laws to promote..........

I am done ranting.........

[jdhdiggs]

Originally posted by scottvamp
30% for Federal, FICA, SS and State tax is pretty dam close in my world.


Federal everything is 17% all included. (I'll give you that, but know what? Those taxes (medicare, ss, etc...) are there to help the poor and elderly.

J-Low and those morons? They are about 1/2 of 1/2 of a percent of the population. That 10% includes darn near every successful car dealer, resteraunt owner, engineer, geologist, college prof, need me to go on? Are these people the enemies of the working man?

If you want to go off on the Bill Gates of the world, go ahead. I agree with most of what you say about the top half of one percent of the wage earners in the country.

As for your actors and such, who pays their outrageous salaries? You do. If everyone stopped caring about them, they would be poor.

[jdhdiggs]

Scott, just letting you know that I like to debate... :D

One thing that has really ticked me off about the press is stating that the economy and corporate scandals are Bush's fault when they were created and committed to on Clinton's watch. (You could make a better case that it was Bush senior and Reagons fault than Bush jr. but I digress)

Really read his plans and Kerry's before you vote. Personally, I think both of their plans suck, but at least I can make an informed decision about which one sucks more.

For the record, I vote for that which I feel is best for the country and not what is best for myself in terms of taxes.

(Oh, and I'm not man #10, otherwise Russ wouldn't have to loan me anything)

[shack]

Originally posted by HBombToo
The 1 thing I believe I disagree on is the regressive SS tax capping at ~85k. I don't believe it is right to allow incomes above 85k to go untaxed. but then again I'm not sure and this is very puzzeling to me....

HBomb
Because it is not a "TAX". It was designed to be a form of deferred income. You give it to the govt. while you are working and they give it back when you retire. The cap comes into play because of benefit limitations. No matter how much you earn during your working years your SS benefits will be capped at certain level and the max SS contibution was based on the calculated lifetime benefits. It should also be noted that the SS contribution levels have increased at a much faster rate than the level of benefits (much of this however is based on increasing lifespans).

And for every one of the "RICH AVOID TAXES" overblown BS story ou there....there are hundreds that pay a very large percentage of their income in taxes. I caluculated that between income taxes, SS payments, sales taxes, R/E taxes, gas taxes, taxes on utilities, entertainment taxes on lodging etc, etc...over 45% of my gross income goes to the government. If it were not for charitable giving, mortgage interest deductions and 401K contributions it would be even higher. Don't anyone try to tell me that I'm getting my money's worth from the govt.

[scottvamp]

If you want to go off on the Bill Gates of the world, go ahead. I wasn't going off on anyone????????:confused:

Those taxes (medicare, ss, etc...) are there to help the poor and elderly. Good OK - but it still comes out of your pocket - that is what the conversation is about.

That 10% includes darn near every successful car dealer, resteraunt owner, engineer, geologist, college prof, need me to go on? Are these people the enemies of the working man? If that is what spells success for you?????????? I place much more importance on mine. Health - Family are good examples.

I don't have a problem with rich people at all - I hang out at the Playboy Mansion everytime I get a chance.;)

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Flat Tax....

Everyone pays 20%.

[scottvamp]

Originally posted by Polkmaniac
Flat Tax....

Everyone pays 20%.

That insane man!!!!!!!! Being equal/FAIR - thats when the Anti-Christ shows up. LOL:D

[jdhdiggs]

Making a good wage doesn't mean "success" but it does make keeping your family healthy and happy a bit easier as long as the time commitments don't consume you.

I just don't see why you think anyone who is making more than the guy down at the plant is evil or the anti-christ...???

Personally, I think everyone pays too much in taxes...

Edit: Sorry, needed to finish my work for the day...

IMHO: The government should only tax to build infrastructure, defense, Basic assistance to the unemployed an elderly, and enforce the laws of the country.

If someone wants to research cow farts or what not, it should come from private funding.

One idea that might stir up some talk would be having the government set the budget ($ goal) and then the people pick from a catalog of programs that they want their money to go to and the money is distributed that way. It would be very interesting to see what would get financed and what programs would get shat upon.

[Demiurge]

Reality check Scott...


'Rich' guys, the ones you are thinking of with the yachts, mansions, ect, you know...people like the top 5 wealthiest people in the U.S Senate....guys like John Kerry...

...well...they have assets. When you're a multi-millionaire you don't have a vault in your house filled with millions of dollars that you frolic in every morning like Scrooge McDuck. I know the country is retarded when it comes to economics and how wealth is derived, but it's not how hollywood portrays it.

Anyhow...These tax cuts or tax hikes don't really mean a lick to guys like John Kerry because they are multi-millionaires whose wealth is derived from things like property, ect.

The real 'Rich' that you guys like to talk about are people who aren't really 'rich' until Uncle Sam comes arounds and says they are. The top 1 percent made at least $313,469, the top 10 percent at least $92,144, the top 25 percent at least $55,225 and the top 50 percent at least $27,682. These figures were taken from the IRS.

I'm sorry to say, Scott, but people who busted their ass so that they can get the jobs and/or skills that can pay $313,469 shouldn't be paying any more than the humps making $27,682. It sickens me that wealth should somehow = guilt and that it's wrong to be successful....and what's even worse is the fact that there are idiots out there than think the government is better at managing YOUR money than YOU. That the government should have the right to take away half of your income because they want to waste it on BS social programs that don't work...that only aid in fraud and lazyness. There is hardly a government program today that isn't crooked and faulty....and George Bush is as much to blame as the next guy for his Liberal domestic agenda, but i'll be goddamnned if i'm going to put some pacifist little Socialist like John 'The Gigalo' Kerry in the Whitehouse.

Maybe when you make a little bit of money someday and you see how hard you're takin' it in the keaster without any lube from the government you'll see the other side of the coin. All those 'rich' guys provide jobs for people just out of highschool or who didn't apply themselves as much as the next guy. And guess what...some people inherit wealth! *GASP* move on...lifes not fair, but life is what you make of it. God forbid a guy wants to be a carpenter and is satisfied with a modest living. Maybe he's happy with that....

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[jdhdiggs]

Classic Demi! Love it!

[scottvamp]

Reality check - that is what I am talking about. I live a VERY good life. I just had an incredable weekend. Stuff the average Joe only dreams about. - (Not too mention Lake Havasu in two weeks - if you get my drift) have not said a single bad thing about Rich people in general.
Demi,
You have not grasped anything I have stated but that is OK. Things you just stated:
*Some Rich poeple have worked hard to be rich - insightful!!
*Don't blame Bush for anything becuase I like him... OK
*Rich people provide jobs - WOW - like the one I work at......
ALL nothing to do with what I said ---- Demi - Read me again my friend because something just flew right by..........
The problem is forcing one's beliefs and disregarding others opions because it does not fit their personal idiealogy. It is what starts things like racism. Settle down an try to understand where people are coming from and learn - it is what life is all about.....
Cheers - LOL:cool:

By the way I am a 12 year Aerospace Mechanic and do very well not to mention an awesome 401k plan - having 20k reference HT is why I am on this forum............

[Frank Z]

I gotta side with the upper crust on this one people!

[PolkWannabie]

What's even more amusing ?! is that besides paying a higher percentage of tax as one makes more the deductions dry up as well. Certainly sounds fair to me.

[scottvamp]

The more money you make the more assets you own - therefore more taxes you pay - thus more deductions. Once again lower taxes at the end of the year. Poor people can't buy homes, estates and land thus have nothing to deduct on there taxes except those 8 kids. LOL ;)
I have over 10g's in deductions myself but my debt to income ratio is shoot to hell - once again not a problem for a millionaire.

[PolkWannabie]

Scott,

All I can tell you is ... you haven't made it there yet ... when you do, you'll understand it.

[scottvamp]

Haven't made it WHERE??????????? Understand WHAT?????
I am stating simple facts my man....... I have friends that are VERY wealthy and learn alot from them as for as how the economic systems works for them.....
I have no clue what you are refering to............:confused:

[PolkWannabie]

If you don't understand the concept that deductions get negated as taxable income goes up then you aren't there. These are simple 1040 line items.

[scottvamp]

Like I said I have 10g's in deductions myself - but I know that people and friends of mine in a much higher take home have even more in deductions not to mention the ones that own bussinesses that are driveing around in 50,000 vechicles that are 100% tax deductable so you may want to explain exactly what you are talking about because I have not seen it at all in my personal experience.
But once again thier is no argument to the wealthy putting more money under their pillow every night than the average Joe - who cares about thier specific tax requirements. That was one of my points make much earlier ago. You must be crazy to think that modern day America is economicly designed to destroy rich folk through taxes. Which is the only point that a been spat out. I'm sorry I disagree - the rich get richer is factual. And I hope to catch that boat oneday just like everyone else.
"And that all I got's to say bout that"
Forrest Gump (nothing in the movie about his taxes) ;)

[PolkWannabie]

For a simple example see 1040 line 39. There are loads of other examples that are not so straight forward, but they're there.

To look at the facts or lack thereof in your post ...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scottvamp The more money you make the more assets you own That's not necessarily true.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scottvamp therefore more taxes you pay There is not much of relationship between assets owned and taxes paid.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scottvamp thus more deductions. There is no direct relationship between taxes paid and amount of deductions.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scottvamp Once again lower taxes at the end of the year. If you are implying that at the same income level that higher deductions mean lower taxes than if one had no deuctions that's certainly hard to dispute, however it doesn't really fit into the rest of your post.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scottvamp Poor people can't buy homes, estates and land thus have nothing to deduct on there taxes except those 8 kids. LOL ;) Which is usually not only enough to get their AGI down to the point where they pay no income taxes, but also makes at least some eligible for additional handouts.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scottvamp I have over 10g's in deductions myself but my debt to income ratio is shot to hell - once again not a problem for a millionaire. High debt to income ratio is potentially a problem no matter how large your asset stack is unless one can reasonably expect that income will increase over time or the value of assets grows by itself such as real estate USUALLY does.

[scottvamp]

Originally posted by scottvamp
Like I said I have 10g's in deductions myself - but I know that people and friends of mine in a much higher take home have even more in deductions not to mention the ones that own bussinesses that are driveing around in 50,000 vechicles that are 100% tax deductable so you may want to explain exactly what you are talking about because ********I have not seen it at all in my personal experience. *******
But once again thier is no argument to the wealthy putting more money under their pillow every night than the average Joe - who cares about thier specific tax requirements. That was one of my points make much earlier ago. You must be crazy to think that modern day America is economicly designed to destroy rich folk through taxes. Which is the only point that a been spat out. I'm sorry I disagree - the rich get richer is factual. And I hope to catch that boat oneday just like everyone else.
"And that all I got's to say bout that"
Forrest Gump (nothing in the movie about his taxes) ;)

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

I have no clue what yall are talking about....I just have a question......

What are deductables?

[PolkWannabie]

YOU are a deductible ... or more correctly a personal exemption for one or both of your parents ... ASSUMING THEY DON'T MAKE TOO MUCH ...

[scottvamp]

Sid the deductions I am referring to are like the taxes/interest you pay on your house, bussiness and tags on your vehical(s). For example the more expensive your home the more interest you will be paying on it therefor you have more to deduct on your yearly taxes and so on.
Because I have 10g's in deductions I can claim 3 on my federal taxes and less is taken out on each paycheck. Understand!!
Same with number of children in a household - getting huge tax cuts at the end of the year for each child...
Hope this helps.......

[PolkWannabie]

As a better example ...

Most people when they buy a house borrow money to do so i.e. they get a mortgage. The interest you pay on that loan is deductible from federally taxable income.

Because that house probably sits on land in a town, the owner of that house also pays real estate taxes to the municipality and probably also to the county and state. Those real estate taxes are in turn used to pay for town administration i.e. police, fireman etc. and probably also to support public education. Those real estate taxes are also deductible from federally taxable income.

The thing to keep in mind about deductibles, however nice they seem at tax time, is that they don't reduce your taxes any where near as much as the expense itself.

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
If you don't understand the concept that deductions get negated as taxable income goes up then you aren't there. These are simple 1040 line items.

I understand and agree which is the source of my confusion. I would much rather see my hard earned dollars taken in support of the elderly, homeless and less fortunate... these are my fellow Americans and we are all in the same boat. I got your back.

Off the podium and stepping to the right I think our hard earned dollars are blown on nonsense and the perfect example is methane expelled by cows... That was rediculous!

Unfortunatly, man and money are corrupted and all the good intentions are quickly lost to greed. This is a travesty IMO. How do we stop this? shit I'm just Henry...

I'm not sure about all the finance stuff but I would much prefer to buy used audio equipment rather than a thief taking my hard earned cash. Trust me when I tell you I work for every penny!

1/4twin

[PolkWannabie]

Originally posted by scottvamp the more expensive your home the more interest you will be paying on it Also not necessarily true. For someone who likes to speak in terms of "facts" you use extremely loose language.

[scottvamp]

Trust me when I tell you I work for every penny! That is only because rich people allow you too......;)
We are on the same page.


Also not necessarily true. What does that mean!!!!!! Your the extremely lose one.
People wear socks on thier feet - (a fact by scott)

Also not necessarily true. Alllll riiight then!!!!!!!!! I can say not necessarily true to every situation in the world..........
I need a BEER!!!!!!!

[PolkWannabie]

If you wanted to say that up to a certain point that ...

The more expensive house you buy
The larger the mortgage you are likely to have
The more interest you are likely to pay
The higher the related deductible you therefore have

I'd agree ... However people with oodles of dollars that buy houses in upper 7 figures and beyond typically pay cash. Beyond that even at lower levels some people put 5% down some people put 80% down. Consequently there isn't a direct relationship.

[PolkWannabie]

Henry,

Medicare of course is set up to at least partially cover the health care costs of the elderly. As far as the homeless goes, to the best of my knowledge there is not much government involvement outside of Medicaid programs i.e. the bulk of your tax dollars aren't going there.

As far as how do we stop this goes ... That's a question and a half which I certainly don't pretend to have an answer to. However if I were going to pick a place to start, it would be with TERM LIMITATION or as my grandfather would have said ... Every four years ( or whatever ) you throw the bumbs out. Our founding fathers set up government with the idea that they could entice the best from private businesses and the like for short periods of time to "help out" but that those folks wouldn't want to hang around long as they had better stuff to do. IMHO this has totally run amuck as the "bumbs" now of course view politics as a career.

[scottvamp]

Scott out - way to many financial classes to conflict with one another as soon as I explain one another pops up. Millionaires - Billionaires - Trillionaires.
You mean to tell me Oprah pays cash for here homes - no freaking way - she also pays cash for entire islands.:eek:

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
Henry,

However if I were going to pick a place to start, it would be with TERM LIMITATION or as my grandfather would have said ... Every four years ( or whatever ) you throw the bumbs out.



OH SHITE!!! We are aligned so now I'm very concerned for you Wannabie:D

I just got another beer so 1/2twin is here to stay.:rolleyes:

[Frank Z]

Originally posted by scottvamp
- getting huge tax cuts at the end of the year for each child...

You can't be serious? Huge? Compared to the cost of raising a child it's a miniscule amount!

[PolkWannabie]

I said typically ... I didn't say ALL and that it was a FACT ... I don't hang with Oprah so I have no clue WTF she does.

Originally posted by scottvamp
People wear socks on thier feet - (a fact by scott)I guess we're not at the beach, which if by the way is where we were, I still wouldn't state as a fact that ... People don't wear socks on their feet ...

[RuSsMaN]

You MORONS.

A Political debate, a clear victor? Pffft.

HOS, hear we GO!

[PolkWannabie]

Frank Z,

You mean that $2.5k / year deduction from your taxable income which increases your income by what maybe $750 assuming that you can still take personal exemptions doesn't pay for a years worth of groceries and clothing let alone tuition at Harvard ?

I'm shocked ...

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
You MORONS.

A Political debate, a clear victor? Pffft.

HOS, hear we GO!

My big brother RuSs... Thanks and again we must fail ourselves but you have to admit in this HoS'er there is real substance :p

1/2TWIN:D

[scottvamp]

I am going to have to bail on this one - your right Russ.
People just like to argue for no reason - but sometimes - just sometimes - people learn from debates. Not today I guess - Polk forum after all.

[PolkWannabie]

LOL ... There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see ...

[scottvamp]

Earned income is rather large for low income families or single parents and comparied to getting nothing back. Not contemplated getting enough money every year in taxes to raise a child . IT was never an issue - if you can't financially support a child - one should try to refrain. Another point a made much eariler on. But it all seems pointless now. Polkwanna - I am sure you are a great guy but you have contradicted yourself like three times already ---- anyway truss ;)
Scott out-------------------------

[PolkWannabie]

I'm not following the first part of your post at all. Maybe I haven't had enough beers or whatever.

With regards to having children and being able to support them I totally agree.

As far as contradicting myself goes you'd have to point those out, if you're right I'll be happy to acknowledge the FACT.

[jdhdiggs]

Originally posted by scottvamp
[B]That is only because rich people allow you too......;)
B]

Somebody owns the business in which you work, that is correct. It is also likely that they are in the top 10% of income.

You got me thinking last night and I paid more in taxes this year than I did on home/car insurance, the value of my my family's two cars, value all of my audio/video equipment, and mortgage payments combined. Does that sound fair to you? :rolleyes:

Should I be punished because I paid attention in high school and got accepted to a good college and then paid my own way through six year of school working for my degrees with no help from the government or my parents and managed to land a high paying job when I was done?

Question is: Why should I have to pay more taxes because some guy with just as much potential started doing drugs and got a girl pregnent at 16? I don't mind paying my current share of taxes, I just hate it when people complain that it isn't enough and that it's unfair that I have a good job.

I think one thing we agree on though is that there shouldn't be handouts- Let's eliminate EIC and force the poor to stop having children and make them be productive members of society... :rolleyes:

[jdhdiggs]

HOS? There hasn't been any name calling, backstabbing or the like! (Well, except Russ calling everyone morons)

Dangit Russ, it's all your fault!!!

BTW, tax code has but one correct answer. Whether it is ethically correct is an entirely different beast...

Scott, after re-reading all your posts, this is the summary of the points I'm getting from you (Please correct as it doesn't make sense in my head):

1). Joe worker works his butt off and only gets to keep seventy cents on the dollar
2). Joe worker is paying for Mary, the homeless crack mama's eighteen kids
3). This is outragous so Joe shouldn't have to pay for it
4). Rich people should
5). Why? Because they are evil and keeping Joe down.
6). Another reason: the rich keeping fifty five cents out of every dollar is still too high.

That's how I'm reading your argument. BTW, I hope no one you know (mentioned) gets audited by the IRS.

[PolkWannabie]

Depending on how one classifies "the poor" this is at best difficult.

However, I've always thought that for those that are on programs like wellfare, that they be conditional on having no more children. You have more children, you're off the program.

I'm not opposed to paying more taxes in terms of dollars ... where it becomes objectionable is that the dollars that one pays in taxes goes up faster than income does i.e. the marginal tax rate gets higher as one makes more as in the example in the lead post.

[scottvamp]

That's how I'm reading your argument. BTW, I hope no one you know (mentioned) gets audited by the IRS.
I agree %100.

No, I feel the wealthy should pay the same as the average Joe. I have nothing against them at all. Except I wish I were wealthier myself.
I got audited last year and they could not get a single penny from me. I even found out I had a few more deductions out their but it would have not gotten me much more.
I just hope SS is around when I retire.

[PolkWannabie]

Wait a sec ...

The same what ? Dollars ? Percentage ?

Quite frankly I'd be happy to trade either the dollars or percentage paid in taxes with almost anyone out there making less.