What does Polk need to improve?

[Zero]

Gentlemen,

Before I begin, I ask for your cooperation in keeping this thread respectful and full of constructive idea's. Please put serious thought into your responses before submission. If we field enough feedfack I will be showing this thread to a few gentlemen at Polk. Perhaps we can get a few responses from the men themselves.

We all love Polk, and Polk loves us. Incredible as their products are, there is always room for improvement. Every bit of insight helps, and in the end, everyone wins. If you have felt something lacking from Polk, this is your chance to let it out!

Thank you for your participation, and keep rockin'.

Sean

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Simple...

Bring back the SDA models

[steveinaz]

Agree 100% on the SDA issue, thats a Polk "signature" feature. I miss the "mid-sized" line of speakers, Monitor 5's, RTi55's..etc.

[Danny Tse]

I have not seen the packing of recent Polk speakers, so this may have changed. But the packing boxes and packing materials to the speakers should be better. I am referring to the period when the RT25i was in production.

Ignore this comment if the packing has been improved.

[kuntasensei]

I love Polk speakers, and I think they're one of the best values on the market. However, respectfully, Polk Audio's biggest weakness is in the subwoofer department. Let's face it: full range needs to be 20Hz-20kHz for a system, and you just can't achieve that with a subwoofer that has a -3dB point of 28Hz. I'd like to see Polk put together a solid subwoofer with a high-powered amp that has flat response down to 20Hz. You know... something to really bring out the full range of music and home theater when paired with other Polk speakers.

[PolkThug]

Color. I know Polk wants their speakers to stand out on the showroom floors, but I don't want their speakers to visually stand out in my theater room. I wish they would make the Rti8/10's in all black, without the silver. My Rti70's were all black.

Sincerely,
PT

[Shizelbs]

Get some LSis available in Washington State other than the one out of the way Fry's.

[amulford]

I have to agree w/ bringing back the SDA line. And the point about the subs.

But I also have a thing for the RTxxx & RTxxxi's. Just something about those tri- lam tweets I love. I would really like to see that design revived, also.

The thing is, IMHO, things have to move forward. I beleive that Polk is doing just that.

So as far as improving? I can't say they need to improve their products.

Maybe one thing. If after you purchase their products and register yourself, if they would allow you to purchase more directly through them. This would solve some of the availabilty problems like the ones Shizelbs has with the LSi's.

Just a thought...

[Emlyn]

Improve the feet on the LSis. They break too easily when the speakers are moved if they're not screwed in all the way. Same problem on the older RTi speakers. Outriggers of a similar design but higher quality to the new RTi series would be nice.

Offer the option of different veneers even if it's necessary to charge slightly more for a special order item with a light colored wood like maple.

Redesign the LSi with high quality woofer drivers that are front firing even if it means making the woofer enclosure wider.

Cut loose Circuit City. Even though they have good return and trade-in policies, their staff is no longer appropriately motivated to sell or provide customer service (at least where I live).

Authorize at least one more on-line dealer than Crutchfield. Since I'm in Virginia I have to pay sales tax if I order from them!! :mad:

Provide Club Polk members with beta testing opportunities. :D

[reeltrouble1]

Yes, bring back an affordable SDA speaker.

I think Polk should continue to sell through CC, the sales staff at my store are still knowlegdeable and even if they were not I can listen to them and they do give great deals on closeouts. Polk should ask them to improve their listening rooms though.

Some kind of traveling Polk demo truck to visit area's and provide listening time would be nice.

[fireshoes]

I just want a big bad Polk sub so I can join the PWC (Pants Waffling Club).

[hotwheelman]

Beta testing.......yeah beta testing. Come on polk let us polknuts test your newest ones and give you some unbiased feedback, were good for it.

[madmax]

HOW MANY YEARS HAS MOST OF THE FORUM BEEN YELLING AT POLK TO BRING BACK THE SDA LINES??

Ever since I signed up and from what I understand a long time before that we have been telling you we want new SDA's. POLK, this is not a fad. It has been a top topic since this forum has been here. Why don't you guys print out this thread and take it into your planning meetings. It all looks pretty obvious to me...
madmax

Oh yea, the subwoofers are not reasonable performers these days.

[Grimster74]

IMO, Polks are the absolute best bang for the buck speakers on the market. But I must say, even though nice, Polk really needs to work on there subwoofers.

[warviper]

I dont think that polk will be going after the sub market. I would like to see them make a new sda line. Have gotten my self a nice pair of 1Cs and the imaging that they produce are amazing.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by warviper
Have gotten my self a nice pair of 1Cs and the imaging that they produce are amazing.
IS amazing...:D

[warviper]

Man I had to pick a forum where every ones a grammar teacher.;)

[Zero]

Thank you for your responses so far gentlemen. I suppose it is my turn to share some opinion’s on the idea’s laid down on the table so far.

While it would be wonderful to see a new, beautiful line of Polks venerable SDA’s hit the market, I cannot feasibly see this occurring anytime in the near-future. Between concerns over the market accepting such a huge speaker, and with the looming possibility of a major distributor going out of business, such a project seems unreasonable at this time. But who knows what the future holds….

What is the deal with taking away the large three-way bookshelf? I have no transcript of sales records, however, I imagined this particular model was quite successful. It gave you response and power most bookshelves in the respected price range fail to deliver, not to mention it being versatile and efficient. This speaker filled a great niche.

Danny Tse brings up a most excellent point I missed. I can recall a few of the former Rti speakers arriving damaged, specifically the power ports. I recall the packaging on the new series being better, though I am not sure about the bookshelves. I do not recall packaging being a widespread issue. After-all, we all are aware of how carefully UPS handles their goods. ;)

Offering more veneer’s and cosmetic options could definitely take on an appeal. One of the main complaints against the LSi series is the lack of veneer finishes in which to choose from. Many companies offer other choices at additional cost, typically $100 bucks more man MSRP. It would be nice to see such an option for Polk’s higher-end offering. In today’s world, cosmetics are equal to if not more important than the speaker itself. This may not hold true for the hardcore audiophile, but for mom, dad, grandma and the girl next door, feng-shwei *sp* is of utmost importance. Polk should then send brochures to every dealer so that they can show customers the different options they will have. If cosmetics are that important, and they like the sound, it will be worth the extra expense and all parties would be happy in the end.

We need more LSi dealers. ‘Nuff Said. Polk is working hard, but progress has been slow. Tweeter is a big step in the right direction. I am sure the LSi’s will become a very popular solution, hopefully opening the eyes of other smaller shops.

Speaking of the LSi’s, a few improvements I noticed could be: Sturdier feet. This is not the first time these issues have come up. In fact, I had enormous amount of difficulty getting the feet attached to the bottom of the speaker. It simply would not fit. The 8’’ woofer on the 15 seems to be a poor match for the rest of the speaker. As many reviewers have noticed, the bass on the 15 can become uncontrolled and bloated. While many factors attribute to this, I found stuffing a towel up the port helped the problem immensely.

Beta Testing seems like a fun idea. Perhaps a yearly drawing could take place for random, active, members to beta or demo pre-release products. Ok, perhaps that is just a pipe dream, but its cool to think of nonetheless. On a serious note, who DOES do the listening before the product comes out? I noticed a lot of coherency problems between the drivers Polk uses, which points more towards crossover issues. Do rooms of people have a say, or is this done via: computer?

The website needs more spice and life. Members receive a monthly (or every other month), Polk news letter. The contents of this letter should really be displayed publicly. Better yet, it should be done so via: scrolling script on the main front page. Inform the customers, keep your site alive, and keep people interested. Reviews of products, future sponsored events, it should all be there displayed to the virtual world. Pick up the pace!

The last thing that bears to mind is Sub-Woofers. I never understood how Polk’s floor-standing / bookshelf speakers could maintain such great bass response, but the speaker (the sub) meant to deliver serious bass completely falls short of the competition. The new PSW series is small, cosmetically appealing, but its performance in contrast to others in the same price range falls short. The bass is modestly accurate, extension cut off limit is way too high for the price, it can crank out some SPL, though it will be distorted. While it has high excursion woofers, they are very easy to damage. I would love to see digital amplifiers, high excursion woofers with a slightly larger box. Tweeter sports higher end electronics than Circuit City, so this is a great time to release a serious sub or two.

That’s about all I can think of for now! Cheers.

Sean

[hotwheelman]

Why is not possible to build an sda line without the need for a huge cabinet? It can be done I say.......so just do it.:D

[PolkThug]

I still think the 505 is a good sub for <500 delivered (I paid 449 from Crutchfield for the first one). Mine don't sound distorted at all (with one exception of Darla tapping the glass at high volume). They will hit bass in the low 20's, granted the spl's are reduced, but its not horrible.

I do agree that they should make a $600-700 unit with a more robust driver. I don't like the idea of having to turn the volume down when Darla taps the glass.

I have not heard a home theater sub for $450 that sounds better than the 505.

Maybe they could outsouce the driver from tcsounds or something like that.

Regards,
PolkThug

[wrxmy02]

Have the LSi 2Pr LSI7 and one LSI center. All have "break through" on the piano finish. The corners are just to sharp.

Even happens on the PSW450 sub..the joining corners are TOO sharp. The covering is also too thin.

Self image--More advertising in popular audio mags.

[madmax]

Originally posted by ATCVenom

While it would be wonderful to see a new, beautiful line of Polks venerable SDA’s hit the market, I cannot feasibly see this occurring anytime in the near-future. Between concerns over the market accepting such a huge speaker, and with the looming possibility of a major distributor going out of business, such a project seems unreasonable at this time. But who knows what the future holds….


This sounds like polk roundtable hype to me...

madmax

[F1nut]

IMO, the size of the SDA's should be a non-issue. Look around, there are plenty of LARGE speakers on the market.....you know the kind 2 channel loving audiophiles buy. Just bring them back!!!

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

SDA!!!

[TroyD]

Agree re the SDA.

Someone said that there needed to be a speaker that needed to get to 20hz. I'd say that's a bit ambitious. I can't think of many speakers that ever got that low, excluding the Carver Amazings. I think even the biggest and baddest SDA's were rated *only* mid 20's -3db. IMHO, if you hit 30hz, you are full range. Period.

My .02 on the beta testing. Great idea to get free gear however, you send out 20 pairs of speaks, they are going to be listened to on 20 different rigs by 40 or more ears.....not much chance for a consistent set of findings there my friends. Gear grab for us, not much value for Polk.

BDT

[fireshoes]

Originally posted by ATCVenom
While it would be wonderful to see a new, beautiful line of Polks venerable SDA’s hit the market, I cannot feasibly see this occurring anytime in the near-future. Between concerns over the market accepting such a huge speaker, and with the looming possibility of a major distributor going out of business, such a project seems unreasonable at this time. But who knows what the future holds….

Sean

If CC went under, Polk could focus more on the specialty audio retailer. Though specialty shops are dwindling, the SDA would be provide a unique product in these store, giving it a reasonable chance of success.

[polkhead]

Originally posted by F1nut
IMO, the size of the SDA's should be a non-issue. Look around, there are plenty of LARGE speakers on the market.....you know the kind 2 channel loving audiophiles buy. Just bring them back!!!


Agree!
I refuse to let go mine old old old set

[rskarvan]

I think Polk should re-introduce the CRS+ with LSi type components in an SDA configuration. That way, they can re-test the market with SDA, introduce a better (next generation) SDA, and not scare the market with massive speaker enclosures. It seems like such an ideal solution that they are silly for not going that route.

As far as what else they can do... hmmmm
Polk speakers are looking a little chincey lately. I mean, the enclosures lack the beef that previous 80-style enclosures had. Bring back real wood speaker boxes. Make them pretty, artistic pieces and the WAF (wife acceptance factor) would go way up.

Also, I think Polk should introduce a ceiling mount, dare I say Bose-like AM5-II type almost-invisible white speaker. That would be a good thing.

Also, having a button for supermodels in bikini's posing next to polk speakers on the website wouldn't hurt anyones feelings.

[Emlyn]

As the proud owner of a pair of SDA 2.3tl speakers, I say bring back the LAB COAT and the attitude that went with it!

[Zero]

Poor Matt - that advertisement will haunt the man forever.

[gmorris]

No more blue drivers, please.

I own 2 CSi30's & 2 RTi70's. The black ash veneer is beautiful. The speakers look very classy with the grilles on. BUT, I listen to the speakers with the grilles off, and the blue drivers look, well, kind of toy-like.

I noticed the new RTi line has black drivers, good decision. Just don't make any new speaker with blue, or any other color than black, drivers.


Someone else said more advertising. Agreed. The only place I ever heard of Polk speakers was in Crutchfield. (before CC started selling them)

[stereo55]

Yes ...... Please bring back the SDA series .
The first time I heard a set of SDA's (when they were first introduced long ago) I fell in LUV with the incredibale sound and continue to remember that moment to this day .

:D :D :D

[PolkThug]

Looks like Matt got Armor All on his speakers. :)

Yeah, its sad I'll never be able to buy a new speaker like that. Oh well, saves me money I guess.

Peace,
PT

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by rskarvan
I think Polk should re-introduce the CRS+ with LSi type components in an SDA configuration.

I could not agree with more read in one post... ;however, your whole response was TMI in IMHO.

I am first in line for a modern day SDA!:D to just start it off.

1/2twin

[dave shepard]

I never heard the SDA's but after reading this thread you wish I could, but the reintro. of the black FX1000's would be on my list of speaks to get.

Dave

[PolkWannabie]

Originally posted by rskarvan
I think Polk should re-introduce the CRS+ with LSi type components in an SDA configuration. That way, they can re-test the market with SDA, introduce a better (next generation) SDA, and not scare the market with massive speaker enclosures. It seems like such an ideal solution that they are silly for not going that route. I believe the scarey part from the Polk marketing perspective is WIDTH not height which unfotunately would make the CRS+'s no less scarey

["Polk" Paul DiComo]

Sean et al,
Thanks for bringing this thread to my attention. I will forward it to Matt Polk, Jim Herd (el Presidente) and the product line managers. I don't think my age-weakened brain can remember all of the comments so I may have to reply in installments.

Subwoofers - We are proud of the models we've made. Being music lovers first and foremost, our first goal in subwoofer design is to reproduce musical bass. Secondly we aim to have the sub play loud low bass. In the price ranges where we have made woofers we feel we succeeded in reaching our goals and have offered subs that stand up well to direct comparison with other woofers in their range. One product you will not see from us is a subwoofer that compromises musical performance for shear loud, low slop. But of course none of our Forum Faithful want that anyway, right? We may be sacrificing sales for taking this position but hey, we never believe we could make ALL the sales anyway (but we try). Where we have failed you to date is in taking so darn long to update our top-end subwoofer that delivers BOTH musical and plaster cracking loud DEEP bass. The PSW650 is a wonderful woofer but got long in the tooth and ultimately fell behind as other woofs in the price range got better. Some of you know that we announced a replacement PSW808 a couple of years ago and never brought the product out due to ongoing technical problems. I'm happy to say that we started with a clean slate and designed the LSiW. I had the pleasure to set up and demonstrate a prototype LSiW at CES along with 5 LSi9s. Whoa. This is the woofer you guys have been waiting for - it does it all. You will be able to hear the LSiW in stores within a few short weeks. Sorry for the looooong wait.


SDA - We may be not too bright but even we have noticed that the SDA drum beat has never ceased. Obstacles continue to be enclosure size and availability of suitable retail outlets to properly demonstrate the benefits of SDA technology. These may be overcome in time but are not trivial issues.

As far as packaging and feet issues, I'll let the product guys see and deal with those. I know nothing about such stuff.

As for the big 3-way bookshelf question - we never abandoned that format. Not long after the RT55 was discontinued (due to lackluster sales BTW) we revived the format in the infinitely better (though more costly) LSi9. Happy to say that model has been a success. The new Monitor line will have a Monitor 40 with 2 5.25" drivers flanking a 1" dome.

Finishes - As you know we tried Maple in addition to Black and Cherry and did not realize robust enough sales to keep it going. Those of our readers who are in business for themselves know that extra SKUs (stock keeping units) that don't turn over quickly enough are big resource wasters. In order to continue to keep slow moving items in the mix of offerings we would have to raise the prices of the fast moving items. One thing our customers love about Polk is that we deliver real high value. One way we accomplish that is by running an efficient business. Sometimes that means we have to cut out a finish or a model. It is one of the consequences of maintaining low prices and high performance. We do add SKUs where we see strong sustainable demand, as in the case of Cherry CSi centers.

I have not been active on the forum for some time. There have been a lot of demands on my time and it is hard to carve out hours to dedicate to the forum. We also hoped that the Forum would be a self sustaining thing. But I now see that this may be one of the most inmportant things we do - to listen to you, set the record straight, help the poor newbies and occasionally smack a few miscreant wrists. See you around...

Paul

[Zero]

Paul - the Italian Stalion (hmm, will your wife get jealous?),

Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to address a few points raised here.

On the topic of Sub-woofers, I am curious - what products do you directly compare your subs to? The latest "buzz" seems to be SVS, HSU, and many other direct-order vendors. Has any of these aforementioned (or simular styled) subs seen any activity in the shop of Polk? I mention this because, this is where the trend of value is heading, and while it is a different market, it is becoming more popular and may, in years to come, become a standard.

The SDA was truly a speaker ahead of its time, and now with so many freak-show designs - not so much as an eyebrow will be lifted now. If only we can open up some more retailors eh. Ever thought about letting a few of us do wholesaling or drop-shipping? haha

One thing I want to bring-up again, is how Polk decides what sounds good? Is it a solid mixture of PC calculations and good ole fashioned in-room listening?

And lastly - when do I get a job there? Shoe shiner? Anyone? haha

Take it easy Paul.

Sean

["Polk" Paul DiComo]

We all go around in bare feet so shoe shiner would not be a great place to start. :p

I'll ask about whether Hsu and SVS have been evaluated here. Hard to believe but I don't know all that goes on in this cavernous building. I have seen the usual suspects store brands in here for comparison.

You ask a great question about how we evaluate speakers. There a are whole mess of measurement tools: MLSSA FFT, ground plane measurements, Full Field Laser Interferometers, anechoic rooms, Klippel laser gizmo thingie (the highly technical name for it) blah, blah, blah. All of these things are valuable tools in speaker design.

Equally important (maybe more so) is subjective listening with both music and film soundtracks. Relying too much on either measurements or subjective evaluation is dangerous. In the case of measurements we have to accept that even though measurement techniques have vastly improved in recent years, no machine can evaluate in the same way as human perception. On the other hand measurements can clue a designer into knowing which subjective characteristics are desirable and which are "euphonic colorations" (errors that may sound pleasing to the ear on some recordings but in fact are simply wrong). The machines also speed up the design process by pointing out and eliminating obvious errors and dead end designs. It is freaky how good the machines are at predicting poor subjective performance. But Matt and his golden ears have job security (at least for the foreseeable future) because the machines just aren’t all the way there yet (and they don't buy speakers).

[reeltrouble1]

This is a really great thread.:) Glad to see Polk Paul addressing the sub issues. I would still like to an affordable SDA floor stander that can do music and does not need a sub.

[PolkWannabie]

Define affordable ...

[reeltrouble1]

Good question PW as one persons affordable may indeed be different than anothers. I was thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200-1500 for the pair.

[PolkWannabie]

That would be wonderful ... but I wonder how likely ...

Take the relatively recent middle of the road 2.3 TL ...

Original MSRP of $2500 ( From ~ 1991 ) that still commands $1000+ on resale ... and add to this that by todays standards there are certainly those who would say you still need a sub and of course the fact that even if it was remanufactured today as it was that it's not likely you'd be able to touch a pair for anything close to the original price.

or from a different perspective ...

The LSi15's ... where assuming it could be made into an SRT like SDA ... you'd probably need to at least double the number of midrange drivers and have twice the cab width and far more complicated internal or external electronics and of course here again it's not going to hit really low.

You can see from Polks recent lines of speakers that within some amount of reason they aren't overly concerned with how deep the speakers are, but the width is another issue.

These are formidable problems that I'm sure the engineers have been wrestling with for some time ... i.e. SDA ... in a cabinet that's not too wide ... that doesn't cost an arm and a leg ... If they didn't care if the cabinets were 2' wide and that the MSRP might be $8k, I'm sure they could have started churning them out awhile back.

It'll be interesting to see what they come up with ...

[F1nut]

Hey, you want to play, you're going to have to pay.

There's no way in hell you'll see new SDA's in the $1500.00 range. My quess, 5k and up.

[I-SIG]

I'd be willing to bet that if Polk were careful with the rotation and placement of the LSi mids they could build a cabinet that is no more than a foot wide, just based on how they look in the picture and without doing any measuring. Granted 1foot is 50% wider than the LS15i or even the RTi12, it is still at least 3 inches narrower than a SDA-SRS 3.1tl. I think that difference could be huge, visually.

Wes

[PolkWannabie]

Originally posted by I-SIG
Granted 1 foot is 50% wider than the LSi15 or even the RTi12, it is still at least 3 inches narrower than a SDA-SRS 3.1tl. I think that difference could be huge, visually.

Wes i.e. SRT size :D

[reeltrouble1]

So your thinking is that if an SDA speaker pair could be sold for under 1500.00 the build quality would be so poor nobody would really want it? Or maybe technology has not advanced to the point it can be done. I guess I am hoping for something like the drop in price on computers to happen with the SDA.

I remember reading somewhere that Matt Polk wanted to bring the SDA back but wanted it to be affordable, I dont figure 5-8 thousand is affordable to Polks present market. They could go after a different market. I know I am in the minority but I really dont care how big the cabinet is. Or even want to use the set in a H/T setup where the WAF seems to really matter.

You all may very well be right on, maybe we will never even see them, or they will out of reach for most. Anyway, the question was to define affordable, so that is my .02

[PolkWannabie]

I think Polk will insist on it being at least semi-affordable ... but I would suspect that the cost would at best be at the upper end of what they produce so say in the LSi25+ range and even that would at best be difficult because of the extra drivers necessary and more complicated x/o's and other circuitry and I think the marketing folks are driving the engineering folks to come up with something that is in ten words or less NARROW ... read no wider than anything they currently make or in other words 7-8". This last specification may not be feasible and I suspect is what has up to this point caused it not to be produced. I also think this particular criteria could be stretched to 12" which is the width of the SRT's without having much effect if any on whether or not someone buys a pair.