PDA

View Full Version : 200 watt amp w/ 150 watt speakers?



lonwa
05-13-2004, 10:29 PM
Hello,

I own the RTI range of speakers (each one is rate up to 150 watts), and was wondering if I should even attemt to power them with a 200 watt per channel amp?

Is there a some sort of calculation one does to make sure their speaker/amp combo can work together, or is it simply the amp cannot be rated above the speakers, period?

I currently own a Denon AVR-2801 (90 watts X 5) and obviously have not had any problems, but I want to take advantage of what my speakers can do, and thats 150 watts. Will I even hear a difference if I do get the larger amp with these speakers, or do I really need higher end speakers to hear a difference?


Thanks for your help

Lonwa

dorokusai
05-13-2004, 10:45 PM
A speaker will reach distortion, before it is overpowered, in most cases.

"High End" speakers? What are they? That issue is subjective at best.

What do you own now?

lonwa
05-13-2004, 10:47 PM
RTi-38 fronts
CSi-40 center
FXi-50 surounds
PSW450 sub

amulford
05-13-2004, 11:07 PM
200 WPC should be fine. If you overpower the speaker, you will have greater clarity at lower driving levels. Yes you can fry them, but not as easily as if you were under powering them and trying to reach elevated listening levels.

In other words:MO' IS BETTER!!! :D

But if you don't try to drive them hard now, you don't really need to increase the power.

dorokusai
05-14-2004, 12:05 AM
You have multiple variables here.

I would clarify Amulford's statement with, don't over power them intentionally...but don't be afraid of higher ratings. The speaker will let you know that it is not capable, and vice-versa.

Will you experience a noticeable change in sound via new AVR? .....50/50.

Early B.
05-14-2004, 05:16 PM
Instead of getting a lager amp, first try larger speakers. Trade out your RTi38's for the RTi70's and you'll notice a nice improvement in bass and fullness. Then when you've got some extra money to burn, treat yourself to separate amps for the front and bi-amp them.

Tour2ma
05-17-2004, 01:41 AM
"Lager" amp... I prefer a good stout amp, myself... ;)

Lonwa,
First, welcome to the Club.

Second, more speakers are damaged by underpowered amps clipping than overpowered. Keep this in mind, speakers power handling ratings are continuous ratings. They can actually handle double their continuous rating (or more) on transients.

I drove my old Yamaha mains (rated at 80 watts) with a 375 wpc Carver amp for years with narry a problem. As others have said above, your ears will protect your speakers.

lonwa
05-22-2004, 01:31 PM
Thanks guys.

The next question is, which brand of amp should I go with?

I have been looking at the usual ones mentioned here.

Between the Outlaw and the Parasounds, which do you think will sound better, and still be able to perform great after years of use, and probably a speaker upgrade as well?

I really am leaning towards the parasound HCA-2205 unit, cause it gives me 220 X 5 @ 8, and 300 X 5 @ 4, so I have room to grow.

Anyone have this unit? The pricing is very similar to the 7 channel unit from outlaw, so obviously I would get 2 extra channels from them, but would the quality be the same. Currently I do not have a 7.1 preamp/proc. I just envisioned purchasing a second 2 channel amp after I upgarded the preamp if necessary at that time.

Thanks for any help guys.

Lonwa

PS: is it still the norm to expect at least a 15-20% discount off any MSRP for this stuff? Thanks

Early B.
05-22-2004, 04:49 PM
Either brand is good. But don't get too concerned about the specs. Not all watts are created equal. Besides, there's no direct correlation between watts and sound quality. Buy what sounds good to you, and that's impossible to quantify with specs.

lonwa
05-22-2004, 07:52 PM
that's a very good point. does anyone have experience with parasound that they would like to share? good or bad?

Also, when you say not all watts are created equal, is listening the only way to really compare, or is there some formula that will allow you to truly equate the numbers when you compare all the specs?

Thanks

cfrizz
05-22-2004, 11:12 PM
I just got this amp. it is rated at 205 watts @ 8 ohms continuous x2 & 315 watts @ 4 ohms continuous x2. The way I see it watts is watts. And the closer you come to giving your speakers the maximum number of watts it can handle the better. My Polks are 14 yrs old and until I got this amp I didn't realize how seriously under driven they were. My Parasound does a very good job of giving my speakers the 205 watts out of the 250 watts it is rated to handle.

I don't really understand what ohms ect. mean. I only know that when I hooked up the amp to the speakers I started hearing some instruments in the songs I never heard before. And there is greater clarity across the board, even at lower volumes.

I originally got this amp because I was/am considering upgrading to the LSi 15's I am now reconsidering that move.

On a side note, I just got a look at the 15's at Tweeter. Damn these speakers are huge! They are more speaker than I can physically handle. SOB! Instead of spikes they should come with wheels. Even if I got them into my 2nd floor apt. I wouldn't be able to move them where they need to be once they were here. :( If anyone knows a work around for this considerable problem please let me know. Otherwise it is a dream that will never come true for me.:(

HBombToo
05-22-2004, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by cfrizz

Instead of spikes they should come with wheels. Even if I got them into my 2nd floor apt. I wouldn't be able to move them where they need to be once they were here. :( If anyone knows a work around for this considerable problem please let me know. Otherwise it is a dream that will never come true for me.:(

offer the largerst man you know a beer friz:D

h

Emlyn
05-22-2004, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by cfrizz
If anyone knows a work around for this considerable problem please let me know. Otherwise it is a dream that will never come true for me.

I wouldn't recommend trying to move the speakers yourself. For some reason, the LSi15s feel heavier to me than the RTi12s even though the RTi12s weigh about ten pounds more.

If you eventually buy from Tweeter, as a condition of sale get the sales manager to agree to deliver and set up the speakers for you (no charge of course). I love commissioned sales people sometimes.

dorokusai
05-23-2004, 02:46 AM
Parasound = Good.

EDIT: Real F'N Good.

lonwa
05-23-2004, 06:20 PM
Thanks for the post dorokusai,

which unit do you have, or have had experience with?


Lonwa

dorokusai
05-23-2004, 06:45 PM
I have heard many of them and owned a few. The amp I own now is a hot rod Parasound HCA-3500.

Parasound is a very solid, high current, high reserve amplifier. It's priced well, built well and carries a 10 year warranty. Don't get me wrong the Outlaw brand has really shown itself to be a big "bang for the buck" animal. Either choice would be fantastic, I'm just confirming along with Cfrizz, that the brand is good.

Cfrizz is talking about an HCA1500, not the HCA2205, if you did not know.

wrxmy02
05-24-2004, 01:07 PM
As far as moving the speakers..Try those "moving man discs".
If you have carpet they work wonders!

cfrizz
05-24-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by wrxmy02
As far as moving the speakers..Try those "moving man discs".
If you have carpet they work wonders!

What are these disks and where do I get some?

PolkWannabie
05-24-2004, 02:01 PM
One place to get something like them ...

http://www.savontv.com/moving-men.html?source=google&movingmen=1

cfrizz
05-24-2004, 02:14 PM
Thank you Rick!

Cathy



Originally posted by PolkWannabie
One place to get something like them ...

http://www.savontv.com/moving-men.html?source=google&movingmen=1

AsSiMiLaTeD
05-24-2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by lonwa
Also, when you say not all watts are created equal, is listening the only way to really compare, or is there some formula that will allow you to truly equate the numbers when you compare all the specs?

Thanks
The 'not all watts are equal' saying is valid to some extent, but that statement is usually reserved for comparing low end receivers and such. For example, you can probably find a cheap Aiwa receiver with 300 watts per channel. You take that and compare it to a Harman kardon receiver that only has 70 watts per channel, and the HK will destroy the Aiwa. So just because something says 300 watts doesn't mean it's better than something with 100 watts...In that respect, the specs are meaningless.

having said that, the 'all watts are not created equal' saying doesn't apply as much here. When you start getting into higher end electronics, watts tend to be created 'more equally'. In terms of output, an Outlaw watts is going to be very close to a Parasound watt, if that makes any sense. In other words, I think it's safe to look at the specs in your comparisons since what you are comparing are in the same league...

Obviously, you always want to listen to what ever you are buying to see what sounds best to you, but that's not always possible especially when you start getting into higher end stuff, so you have to rely more on specs at times.

By the way, Parasound is good stuff and has been a staple in the audio community for as long as I can remember...

jdhdiggs
05-24-2004, 03:37 PM
Just to add some items, you will blow your speakers faster underpowering them than ovepowering them. This afternoon I bought some of the LSi7's from Fry's and hooked them up to my amp that's rated at 450W/Channel into 4 ohms. That's 3X the max that they are rated for.

Did they explode? Nope-

The reason is the watts rating is the maximum sustained power the speaker can take. My amp has a meter and I rarely broke 10 Watts on the dynamic peaks (Tricycle anyone?) and I was pushing the speakers a bit. If I tried to run these speakers at about 40W average/sustained I would have to leve the room it would be so loud. I'd have two more doublings in accoustic power before reaching the sustained limits of the speak, and probably three more before it would typicall meet its dynamic max. This would mean pushing little LSi7's to about 115 dB!!!

As long as your not another sid ;) , this should never be a problem. The bigger the power for the amp, the easier it is for it to control and drive your speakers so it adds a bit more quality to the sound in addition to providing headroom. From my experience (Exclude tubes as I don't have that much experience with) the first watt's will always be higher in quality to the last watts the amp can produce. Example: I might only need 20W, but that power would sound different from a 1kW amp and a 20W amp since the 1kW amp wouldn't even break a sweat.

Airplay355
05-24-2004, 05:19 PM
dont hook up ur lsi7's to a 1kW amp tho, thats just a waste :p

jdhdiggs
05-24-2004, 06:00 PM
Just making a point that it won't hurt those "little baby speakers" unless you try to deafen yourself regardless of the amps power...

lonwa
05-25-2004, 12:40 PM
well, I decided to pick up a used Parasound HCA-1205A Amp from my friend who is upgrading the Odyssey Amps.

For $550 on a 2.5 year old Amp, which I know is in good condition because I have seen it, and I convinced him to let me try it for 30 days, I am pretty pleased. He is also going to give me the original receipt so I still get the 7.5 years left on the warranty.

Thanks guys for your help

Lonwa

Sami
05-25-2004, 05:47 PM
You might want to use that money to upgrade the speakers rather than getting an amp. If you are planning to upgrade them later and get a great deal on an amp now, then maybe but for the RTi-38's I think the Denon is more than enough. Remember that the receiver is rated at continuous power and the speakers at peak power.

lonwa
05-25-2004, 06:46 PM
Thanks for the post Sami,

I was not aware the 150 (20-150) watt rating was peak only. What are the continous rating for my set-up of speakers then, only 20 watts? I cannot find this info on the polk website:

RTi-38 fronts
CSi-40 center
FXi-50 surounds
PSW450 sub


Lonwa

jdhdiggs
05-25-2004, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Sami
You might want to use that money to upgrade the speakers rather than getting an amp. If you are planning to upgrade them later and get a great deal on an amp now, then maybe but for the RTi-38's I think the Denon is more than enough. Remember that the receiver is rated at continuous power and the speakers at peak power.

Umm, since when where speakers rated in peak power? Why then give a range? Are the ratings: Min continous to peak or min continous to peak continous....?

I bring this up because some other speaker companies list their speakers as such: 15-200 Watts, 400 W Peak

Sami
05-25-2004, 08:19 PM
I could be wrong, would be nothing new. I think the RTi38 is 80W continuous.

FYI, if you have Fry's close to you, you might want to go in today and audition LSi7's. Factory refurb, $198 a pair. Very nice sound.

amulford
05-25-2004, 10:16 PM
No, I beleive the lower rating would a minimum, While the max would be the the highest you'd care to go. For example - If you have a speaker rated for 20 - 300 watts, you'd want to have a min. 20 watts continuous to have enough EMF to actuate the drivers (make sound). Conversely, you want to limit the upper range to 300 watts continuous so that when the driver sees those 450 watt peaks so it doesn't put coil into the next room, Kabeesh?:D

MarcPope
05-16-2010, 05:22 PM
Hey guys. I'm new here, looks like a good and informative site. Erm, well........ I see this has already been answered to an extent but I would like to say something.

It is advisable that your amp be at least double the wattage of the RMS of your speakers so that when peaks come through the amp, it is able to handle them cleanly. Remember that speakers have a peak wattage also which is usually double their rms wattage.

So, your amp should actually be 300 watts per channel to drive your 150 watt speakers.

This is leaving aside the impedance rating which I don't really wanna get into right now.

Anyway, I found this place while searching for 150 watt speakers with parallel out. I'm designing a PA for a school assembly and I'm having a bitch of a time finding them. Any ideas would be nice.

reberly
05-16-2010, 10:17 PM
MarcPope, you may want to start a brand new thread with your question