Matthew Polk on SDA

["Polk" Paul DiComo]

I pointed out to Matt Polk that there were some threads on the Forum that he ought to take a look at and darn it, he did. Of course the topic that caught his interest was the SDA discussion. He sent me an email with these thoughts. And yes these are actually Matt's words I'm not putting words into his mouth. I need this job. Mortgage, car payments, college tuition all need paying. No way I'm teeing off the BIG MAN. :p

Now before you read this remember this is thinking out loud going on here so no holding your collective breath...

Paul –
I’ve been following some of the forum threads you mentioned to me. We’re very lucky to have people like this who care enough to tell us what they think, both good and bad. Polk culture has always been like that, a spirited (ahem) exchange of opinions. This type of involvement and dialogue is one of our great strengths. Plus, there’s some really good stuff in those posts.

I’ve also been thinking about the SDA thing and I think you correctly identified the biggest problem in your response to the forum. Since the days of the SDA’s a lot has changed at retail and those changes make it much more difficult to sell a unique product like the SDA’s that depend on a good demonstration. Over the past 15 years retailers seem to have taken one of two paths. Either they have focused on growth by becoming more mainstream or they have become more specialty oriented and focused on custom install. The result is that there are fewer and fewer places to go for a good old fashioned audiophile demo. That leaves us with few options for places to sell something like an SDA product.

However, things might be changing. A lot of retailers are finding out that it’s no fun competing with Walmart and are starting to ask themselves what they can do to start selling the “better stuff” instead of just competing on price. For example, we know that many retailers bring Polk products into their mix because of the product quality and performance. They know that to be successful selling quality they are going to have to get back to some of the tried and true methods of demonstrating and selling superior performance. We’ve also seen some recognition at various retailers that they may have gone too far in the direction of selling commodity type products. So, there is some hope that we’ll start seeing more stores that could sell products, such as an SDA, that need some explanation and a good demonstration.

In the mean time I’ve wondered if there is enough interest out there for a couple of classic SDA products that we would sell direct or on-line. I think someone on the forum suggested using LSi components in a classic SDA format and that’s a pretty interesting idea. There are also some new tricks in SDA that this group might really like.

I’m sure there are a lot of people on the forum who know about SDA and would have no problem buying something like that on-line based on reputation alone but I doubt that would be enough by itself to make the project feasible. The question then is, how do reach enough other people who might be interested but who are not as familiar with SDA or how to convince those who are skeptical? After all, if we’re selling these things direct there won’t be anywhere to go listen to them unless one of your friends has a pair.

This would be an interesting question to throw out to the forum. I’d be interested to hear if any good ideas come up.

[pixiedave]

How about a Polk SDA tour! A big bus travelling to several dates and locations, either at CC or Tweeters stores. Give away stickers and hats, and set up a demo.

[I-SIG]

Originally posted by "Polk" Paul DiComo
Paul –

<snip>

I think someone on the forum suggested using LSi components in a classic SDA format and that’s a pretty interesting idea.

I think I said that!

With the flat-sided baskets, you could put those 5 1/4" mids really close together but still have a classic SDA arrangement.

Use 4 mids and two 8" woofs for 1C arrangement.
Use 2 mids and and a single 8" woof for a 2B arrangement.

Still no more than 12" wide either!!! :D

Wes

[F1nut]

You get Stereophile and TAS to do a review and hopefully they love them. You shouldn't have any problem selling SDA's after getting their blessings.

However, I still think putting them in high-end audio stores only is the right thing to do.

[brettw22]

Very cool of Matt to let us know some thoughts on things we've discussed here. Good stuff!!!!

I'd agree with Pixie that the only way that Polk could be assured a beneficial demonstration is to control the demo completely by way of a touring product tour. Cost feasibility of that would be minimal I'd assume.

I'm curious about the way that demo rooms work. I was under the impression that manufacturers could indicate that in order for their product (or specific line) to be carried, there were minimal requirements that had to be met. Is this a myth and ultimately the retailer has the ultimate decision to play every speaker they carry on a POS receiver that won't do the speaker in question justice? I realize that's a naive question considering that's what's done everywhere, but can't Polk flex some muscle and mandate that their product not be sold with crap receivers?

I think the main question that would definitely need to be answered is what the potential price point these types of speakers would be coming in at. Online or not, money is money. I know there are a TON of people out there that are HUGE fans of the SDA technology, but in the real world, the almighty dollar reigns supreme. I-Sig's idea of LSi based SDA sounds real world cool, but cost factor high IMO. I guess that all depends on how the cabinets would be designed and number of drivers needed etc etc....

[VR3]

What you could do ----

Since you are NOW in Tweeter, which has a speaker margin of Min $$, to around 10,000 a pair...NO?

You *COULD* offer a brochure(sp) in Tweeter for salesman to show shoppers, offer a 30 day in-home trial, they pay return shipping ---- BEST WAY TO DEMO AN EXOTIC SPEAKER***I THINK***

Also, you could offer an 'upgrade' system, where you could combine multiple speakers (and still look good) --- Because, the SRT basically, with the grills on looks like a combined speaker.

I think the best way to get the word on an on-line distributed speaker is through a brochure in the stores, CC *AND* Tweeter *AND* and any other dealer you are in.

You could start an EBay store...etc etc etc

It would be a disaster to walk in Tweeter...with some SDAs in the corner of the room...firing every direction known to man..

[Early B.]

The answer to the question of how to sell SDA's direct or on-line without demos is a very simple one to answer -- just follow the path of those who are successful at it. There's a very long list of Internet companies who sell great speakers on-line.

For instance, many of us have SVS and Hsu subs, but very few of us actually demoed them before we purchased them. We simply relied on the "buzz" created in forums such as this one, reviews (especially from owners), and through word of mouth. In fact, I just purchased a pair of Polk Lsi7's a few days ago, but I've never heard them. Who cares? I know that Polk makes great products, so I bought them. Period.

Bottom line -- if the new SDA's are great speakers, they will sell. The only difference is that Polk's marketing approach would change. No slick ads, no dealers, no high mark-ups, just people talking to other people.

Think about it, Matt -- you have hundreds, perhaps thousands of folks around the country who would comprise your sales team, but you don't have to put them on the payroll. In fact, Polk could start by sending the first batch of SDA's to long time loyalists on this forum. If the speakers are good, believe me, the word will spread like a California wild fire. But if they're not, the folks here won't be bashful about telling you that, either. (Make sure Sid gets a set to demo.)

Now what you guys should do is conduct a feasibility analysis and crunch the numbers to see if this concept makes sense financially. If it doesn't, please let us know and we'll leave you alone.

Thanks for listening.

[I-SIG]

Originally posted by Early B.
Now what you guys should do is conduct a feasibility analysis and crunch the numbers to see if this concept makes sense financially. If it doesn't, please let us know and we'll leave you alone.

Thanks for listening.

Absolutely!!!

I won't bother you anymore if, for some bizarre reason, the numbers say the price would be astronomical, etc.

I also agree that perhaps going on-line only could save bundles and still sell. As mentioned, you gotta create a buzz with a great product. It's gonna take more than a few great or even phenomenal reviews from the stereo rags. Real world listeners have to be yelling like crazy as well.

A couple of demo trucks would be incredible, especially with "real world" gear like Parasound, Outlaw, NAD, etc. AND some crazy gear like Krell mono-blocks, high-end tubes, etc.

Wes

[Emlyn]

As a way of testing the market, I'd suggest nothing larger or smaller than the SDA 1C model, which would mean an SDA speaker roughly the same cabinet size as an LSi15. For a starting point, I don't think speakers as large or as heavy as the SRS 1.2, 2.3, or 3.1 would be feasible in the market today. Speakers that size would certainly make a statement, but I doubt they would sell well enough to warrant the development and manufacturing costs.

I have pairs of LSi15s, SDA-SRS 2.3TLs, and SDA 1Cs. In terms of demonstrating the SDA technology, I find the SDA 1Cs flood the room with the good old Polk "live" sound just as well as the 2.3TLs. My guess is that speakers weighing more than 100lbs each would be a bad starting point for a new model today because they would require special freight handling which can be very expensive.

In terms of drivers, Polk Audio obviously has access to whatever the company wants to put in speakers whether it's ring radiator tweeters or domes. I'd be perfectly happy with high quality domes in new SDAs. The replacement SL3000s work well in the old models right? I would want a non-ported passive radiator design like the last SDAs. The same driver arrangement as the SDA 1Cs seems like a good starting point to me, but I don't know if two tweeters would be necessary any more. I would have no interest in using SDA speakers for home theater because the new RTi series seems perfectly suited to that application to me, but the speakers should be designed with that purpose in mind also because most homes only have one room where speaker systems are permitted (thankfully I don't have that limitation). So, the LSi drivers seem like a good match to considerfor voice matching purposes.

For speaker set-up, I actually have more difficulty with getting the LSi15s to sound good than either pair of SDAs. Initial placement of the SDAs can require some time because changing placement six inches can change the SDA effect a lot. But, the speakers can go very close to a back wall and the SDA 1Cs don't seem to absolutely require 3 feet from side walls to perform well. The LSi15s sound best to me when they're at least two to three feet from room boundaries, side walls or back walls. The SDAs sound great with any separate amplifier I've tried. The LSi15s don't seem to work as well with some amplifiers that don't have damping factors at or above 800.

The aesthetics of SDAs would obviously need to be updated, but they could mimic the LSi line and a model could be marketed as being a notch above the LSi15, maybe an SDA-LSi system. I still haven't seen an LSi25 in person, but grew to dislike the powered tower concept over time and wouldn't mind seeing that speaker replaced in the lineup with an SDA model.

For marketing the speakers, Tweeter may not be the best place unless the stores get access to better amplification. Tweeter stores in my area have sold Martin Logan speakers recently which traditionally have a reputation of being very tough to set up and demonstrate well. Martin Logan has changed their product from the large panel CLS IIz type speakers they last made when new SDAs were still available though, so they have tried to adapt to the market as well to make selling their speakers easier and to make using them easier too.

Direct marketing may be a good idea, but selling through independent dealers probably better if it is coupled with marketing the speakers through Crutchfield or Audio Advisor as well because of their liberal return policies.

On price, my guess is that selling the speakers for around $2500 or less to start would be a good starting point. Since Polk is renowned for high value plus high performance, I'd hope mid-sized speakers could be brought to market with improved materials and manufacturing practices for around that price.

Please put me on the list for a demonstration if there is one.

In the mean time, my 15 year old speakers perform wonderfully and are still in mint condition thanks to previous owners taking such good care of them. Sad to say, but yes the SDAs do seem to outperform the LSi15s by a wide margin for most music.

[Shizelbs]

Originally posted by "Polk" Paul DiComo
The question then is, how do reach enough other people who might be interested but who are not as familiar with SDA or how to convince those who are skeptical? After all, if we’re selling these things direct there won’t be anywhere to go listen to them unless one of your friends has a pair.

Matt is better in the know about all this than I am of course, but it seems to me a fair amount of people that briefly visit this forum have purchased LSi speakers without ever hearing them.

[F1nut]

Just offer a counter point to the statement, "For a starting point, I don't think speakers as large or as heavy as the SRS 1.2, 2.3, or 3.1 would be feasible in the market today."

There are a lot of speakers in that size/price range made and selling well in todays market to folks who take their music seriously. The kind of people that would consider buying SDA's are not going to be found in CC, BB or even Tweeter.

[Early B.]

Just a thought, but somebody's gotta say it: Many of you die-hard audiophiles will hate this statement, but from a strict marketing perspective, the SDA may need to be touted as the "ultimate home theater speaker" that creates an awesome, theater-like soundstage. And because of this, it can also pull double duty as a fantastic audio purist's speaker. Polk would probably pull from a much wider audience if the home theater piece is thrown in there.

[I-SIG]

Originally posted by Emlyn
I would want a non-ported passive radiator design like the last SDAs. The same driver arrangement as the SDA 1Cs seems like a good starting point to me <snip>

I love my SDA-1C's, however I think active, dedicated bass drivers are a must anywhere in today's market. I think the current 8" woof in a dual (or maybe triple!!! :D) arrangement with the PowerPort/standard-port combo would market the speaker much better than a PR.

Face it; America is fascinated with technology and anything Polk can do to supplement the SDA technologies with would be beneficial. I just don't think a PR is gonna do that.

On that note, I think a PR in conjunction with a couple of the 8" woofs would be acceptable (and probably be SLAMMIN') but just keep in mind the additional design and manufacturing costs might push a new SDA over $3k and I think that point might be like falling off a cliff unfortunately. Even for some of us SDA-aholics.

Wes

[Zero]

Matt,

How are those coffee machines? The building still under liable protection in case of (another) fire?

Apparently, Russ has already begun a poll to gather perspective on what individuals would be willing to pay for a new product. Is there any specific number you would hope to achieve in order to make such a project worth while? Of course, figuring costs, labor, components, has yet to liquidize.

As Jesse suggested, mustering reviews in big-time stereo magazines and other entertainment outlets (tech tv, for example), would give you exposure that would almost certainly increase sales. Most direct-sale, online-vendors depend on the word of mouth, so keeping this line a secret to only those in the know would be a fools errand, as you have indicated in your post. This in my opinion, would be the largest, and most vital hurdle. With LSi starting to enter the market with more exposure, hopefully their success will make marketing the SDA much easier than previously realized.

There is no reason why the SDA would not make a great impression on today’s reviewers. The foreseeable glowing reviews should easily pave the way for mom and pop shops to consider expanding their inventory a bit. It all falls into place - key thing being, if all goes well. Dealers certainly have a snob appeal, but they are whores for whatever sells – that have to be, to stay alive. Perhaps this is putting it rather distastefully, but many here hope the SDA’s will be their pimp.

I am concerned with the idea of using the crop of lsi drivers (mostly vifa) with the SDA’s. I would believe it to be imperative to create the SDA in a different light, offering a very different, yet still brilliant sound. Unless you could find a means to put spunk into that tweeter, and more coherency between drivers (not to mention response), I would highly suggest another line. Morrel definitely makes some good stuff. Heh Of course, I know little of design, that’s your deal!

So how do you go about selling to the public? Well as suggested above, you put your image (lab coat and all) everywhere possible (within reasonable advertising costs, of course)…. Make the speaker visually stunning. Give them sound no one has ever heard before (SDA owners aside, this would be the case), make em tap their feet. Short of holding a gun up to a consumers head, the best you can do is get it right the first time – and ensure each customer will get that classic SDA grin. You just try to make it as attractive, tempting, and rewarding as possible.

Many companies are doing this – Axiom, SVS, Hsu, ACI, Ascend, Onix, - I am sure you guys can as well !

[Jstas]

I don't know if this was mentioned yet because I idn't really read through the whole thread but I saw an idea that worked out pretty good.

Another speaker company, I cannot remember the name right now, they are a small startup operation and pretty much online-only right now. What they did was they had customers sign up to demo equipment in thier areas. If someone wanted to listen, they could contact one of the owners and set up a time to stop over and get a listen. I'm sure there is an incentive program too but what better way to sell a quirky speaker like an SDA than through the people who bought them because they love them? I don't think there is anyone more convincing that a person who is passionate about what they like.

On top of that people get a "warm fuzzy" from someone who is demoing thier own equipment in thier own home right infront of them. It's like you are actually getting an honest opinion and hearing the equipment in an environment that is very similar to your own, not the listening room down at the local store. The grassroots movement is inspiring to people too because they will start thinking it's teh next big thing and want to get in on the ground floor. It kinda plays off that "first on the block" mentality.

And finally, any and all advetising campaign should play on the value deal. Lotsa people I know want Wilson Audio stuff or Bang-Olefssen (sp?) stuff but can't afford it. Give them that level of quality in a new speaker, at a price they can afford and they will beat your door down.

Oh and nothing spread faster than gossip. Start rumors, get people talking and word will spread faster than stink!

[dorokusai]

New thought....keep dreaming. Great words, but get used to looking at places like Audiogon and Ebay for used SDA's.

[Jstas]

Originally posted by dorokusai
New thought....keep dreaming. Great words, but get used to looking at places like Audiogon and Ebay for used SDA's.

Ah, quit being such a stick in the mud! You have the attention of the highest ranking individuals of a pretty well known speaker company looking for your opinions on how they should guide thier future product line. We made a stink in the car audio forums about stuff we didn't like, Al listened and I'm already seeing results from those discussions. Now you have the ORIGINAL Polkhead asking for your input and you are gonna be all sandy about it?

Isn't this what everyone wanted? More technical discussions about AUDIO? Stop being so sandy or Imma start mailing some cheese out to go with all that whine!

The man asked some questions, give him some answers instead of pouting about it!

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by "Polk" Paul DiComo

In the mean time I’ve wondered if there is enough interest out there for a couple of classic SDA products that we would sell direct or on-line.

I think someone on the forum suggested using LSi components in a classic SDA format and that’s a pretty interesting idea.

There are also some new tricks in SDA that this group might really like.


Sir I am truly humbled by your thoughts. I'm an engineer learning finance and am beginning to understand your concerns.

If I may, a market for new SDA's should not be in HT but applied in a bedroom scenario or a true SDA 2 channel experience. There will never be 5, 6 or 7 speakers in my bedroom but my CRS+ will be located with my Thomasville bedroom set
;).

If in your shoes I would not retrofit SDA technology into the LSi line. There is a lot of value within the LSi line that Polk should continue to develop but don't lose focus.

My thoughts are that Polk should apply the new SDA tricks into a unique SDA product line however Polk determines. Take the experience from Outlaw and SVS and use it to reintroduce a marvelous SDA concept. I am IN with credit card in hand!

Your Fan
Henry

[warviper]

On the demoing side maybe polk should provide an amp so that the quality of the gear that it was hooked up to would not be that big of a factor. Maybe a partnership with HK or the likes so that the speakers will be getting enough juice.

[brettw22]

Originally posted by HBombToo
If in your shoes I would not retrofit SDA technology into the LSi line. There is a lot of value within the LSi line that Polk should continue to develop but don't lose focus. Please for the LOVE OF GOD, do NOT make an SDA cabinet a black glossy hideous thing........PLEASE!!!!!!!

(past that, I'm fine........:D )

[Jstas]

Originally posted by warviper
On the demoing side maybe polk should provide an amp so that the quality of the gear that it was hooked up to would not be that big of a factor. Maybe a partnership with HK or the likes so that the speakers will be getting enough juice.

No, don't do that at all. Like what was said in another thread. If you start requiring a certain amplifier to be used for the Polk Audio speakers than you limit your market choices and some places will choose not to carry your gear because you have assinine requirments. Whether it's in a store or in someone's home being demo'ed, let the demo guy choose what he wants to power the speakers with.

[madmax]

I want my SDA's clean and simple, no built in amps, no built in subs, no external anything except maybe an SDA cable if necessary. I don't mind cheap parts such as connectors, wires etc. (Stuff I can upgrade myself). I consider my current SDA's audiophile class because all the trickery is performed acousticly, not through electronics. I'd like to see the price kept as low as possible. The SRT's were too much. At half that price and without the external stuff I would have purchased a pair with little thought.
madmax

[steveinaz]

Undertstanding the complexity of this issue, I think internet-only sales of the SDA could be a potential winner for both sides; consumer and seller. A 30 day return period would definitely be a good alternative to attempting to educate retailers, and would allow skeptical audiophiles to audition the product. Returns could be sold as "refurb" or "b" stock at a discount.

Using existing Lsi drivers would work, and I think this is the way to go. If there is to be a new SDA, lets build it right and make it for the serious audiophile---this would also help Polk Audio regain some prestige "in a sea of speakers." Though I think to get this off the ground, you'd have to shoot for the $600-$1000/pr market demographic first, or at least offer models that fill this niche--it's probably the most fiercely competetive price point there is in the speaker industry.

I think this is an idea whose time has come.

[trubluluc]

....is listening to, for his own system these days?

-Luc

[dorokusai]

Originally posted by Jstas
Ah, quit being such a stick in the mud! You have the attention of the highest ranking individuals of a pretty well known speaker company looking for your opinions on how they should guide thier future product line. We made a stink in the car audio forums about stuff we didn't like, Al listened and I'm already seeing results from those discussions. Now you have the ORIGINAL Polkhead asking for your input and you are gonna be all sandy about it?

Isn't this what everyone wanted? More technical discussions about AUDIO? Stop being so sandy or Imma start mailing some cheese out to go with all that whine!

The man asked some questions, give him some answers instead of pouting about it!

I would certainly be the second in line for the purchase of new SDA's, that's a no brainer. I don't even need to sit here and stroke myself over spec's and driver array possibilities to KNOW that I would definetly check them out seriously. What I think you don't get, which you should since you've been here long enough....is that we've talked and talked and talked about this for so long that it's just a pipe dream IMO.

I prefer action over talk on this issue, so until that happens....in writing, then what's the point. So we can stand up to be counted, again, and then eventually start calling each other names in classic Polk fashion...having forgotten why we're even here?

How many of us have to seek out vintage SDA's time after time to obviously show love for the product?

How many of us need to talk about how much they love their SDA's in order to show that we loved the product.

How many of us need to buy a multitude of expensive gear to go ALONG WITH those SDA's before it finally starts making sense that it was a product that is and always will be historical, and life changing for a true Polkie.

How many NEW Polkies must get turned on by their purchase of SDA's, and hearing them for the first time, only to gush enthusiastically about them on THIS forum for the attention flag to get raised.

How many of us need to go on a Polk tour, meet Matt Polk, and IMMEDIATELY mention the phrase "How about some new SDA's?"

EBay searches for drivers...rebuilding crossovers...re-clothing the cabinets and grills...endless love for the product, and the effort to keep them alive is what it looks like to me....from the owners.

It took me TWO YEARS to get everything I wanted to hear my SDA's for the first time. IC's...stand...amp...pre-amp...all bought with my sweat and determination based on a simple set of SDA1C's.

What, they are finally going to listen to what we have been saying when they don't even support a certain Polk employees' GREAT! ideas and views...AND HE WORKS THERE!

Stick in the mud? You could simply add pesimistic to that, history holds true for my case.

Stop talking Polk and start chalking. Grassroots used to the motivator for this company....WE are grassroots.

The End for me.

[ninerbj]

BRAVO BRAVO *golf claps*

[Willow]

how about offering an upgrade program for those of us who currently own polks....and maybe choose some peeps from different areas and send them demos or draw names out of a hat to "win some" then other interested peeps could drop by and listen..keep em clean looking and simple no futuristic looks clean classic !!

[VR3]

Yes...

Please no Silver Front SDAs, with Flimsy Grills...

NO FRIGGIN SUBWOOFER!!!!!!

If you *HAVE* to have a subwoofer with them, make it seperate and optional.

[Willow]

I agree with the optinal external sub as well

[VR3]

Also, if you do this -- Allow more than 2 veneers man...

Cherry and Black or Ebony ONLY go so far...

Maple, Walnut, Black, Cherry, Ebony, ETC ETC

An internal crossover would be nice instead of the box with the SRT

I dont see how they could do an 'upgrade' program. Would they sell all of our speakers as B-Stock? I dunno, I dont see how that would work well and they make money.

I like the idea of the Demoing Van....I think that would most definetely help spread the word.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

THe sub may beed needed in the box to create the SDA effect.

Color selection? Are you kidding? Think about the constraints they're already under. Hell we'd be fortunate just to get these in black...

[Willow]

A white demo van...hmmmm just what the market needs another white van selling speakers.....not everyone will do the upgrade and they could offer it for a limited time

[PolkWannabie]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
An internal crossover would be nice instead of the box with the SRT The SRT's DO have internal x/o's ... what they have that is external are the simple electronics that generate the crosstalk cancellation signal AND some not so simple electronics that are controls for the subs. Personally I prefer this setup and I would even if there were no subs to control ...


Originally posted by Polkmaniac
THe sub may beed needed in the box to create the SDA effect.They aren't ...

[VR3]

Subs should be an option...

It would make the speakers ALOT cheaper -- and most people already have subs that can shake the planet.

[PhantomOG]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
...and most people already have subs that can shake the planet.

*most* people on what planet? *most* people on this forum maybe but i think the percentage of people that own subs that can "shake the planet" is very very small. hell, the percentage of people that even know what a subwoofer is is probably smaller than you think

[I-SIG]

Originally posted by Polkmaniac
THe sub may beed needed in the box to create the SDA effect.

Color selection? Are you kidding? Think about the constraints they're already under. Hell we'd be fortunate just to get these in black...

Gotta agree with the Maniac here. If they use the LSi architecture and make the cabinets the same depth, Polk could use the same side panels, Cherry or Ebony, and maybe cheat on costs a little bit there but still give an appearance option.

I think RuSsMaN (maybe someone else) mentioned that the Vifa tweeter doesn't seem any better than the soft dome from M___ (somebody). Polk could make a hybrid RTi/LSi: RTi soft tweet with LSi mids.

Wes

[F1nut]

I don't want a LSi based SDA. It should be a totaly fresh design.

[I-SIG]

Originally posted by F1nut
I don't want a LSi based SDA. It should be a totaly fresh design.

That's fine and it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit, but I think it will significantly reduce the chances of SDA ever happening again, IMO.

The fewer new components needed up front, the better our chances. Economics dictates this fact unfortunately.

Wes

[VR3]

Well as I said --

For those of us with earth shaking subs, dont want or need a seperate sub for the lows -- so it should be an option.

This would cut the cost in about half, no? This would allow the speaker itself to sell and allow the buyer to purchase a cheaper sub if the budget is small.

[PolkWannabie]

Originally posted by F1nut
I don't want a LSi based SDA. It should be a totaly fresh design. And as witnessed by this statement from someone in the know at Polk a few months ago I think that's what IS happening ... Personally I think the idea of trying to do this in a 7-8" width cabinet is probably more trouble than it's worth but we'll see ...

Hello Rick,
It's difficult to build an SDA type speaker and keep it within the 7" to 8" width that seems popular. An SDA speaker requires two side-by-side drivers and since we tend to use 6.5" drivers the resulting speaker would be at least 13" wide. The current trend, in speakers, is a narrow, slender cabinet. We have to build speakers that are appealing to prospective buyers and that would be difficult to do with an SDA design. However, we are working on it.

We all need to keep in mind that although there are undoubtedly a bunch of us here who would be VERY interested in a new SDA oriented line that it's not going to happen based on Polks ability to sell to us ... R&D costs require a lot of sales of a line to be spread over without having a real adverse affect on cost ...

[F1nut]

PW,

Having been to Polk HQ a few times, let me say that if the boys there wanted to make some new SDA's, they could make it happen very fast. The R&D team there is always playing around with new designs, so making new non-LSi SDA speakers wouldn't be a big deal.

As for the width of the cabinets, look around at what high-end makers offer, they are not small nor skinny.

[rskarvan]

old thread.

[madmax]

Originally posted by rskarvan
Ya know... I think I started this idea about using LSI components in an SDA CRS+ arrangment. I hope Polk runs with this idea ! ! !

Ron Skarvan

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18459


Hold your horses there Honcho. I think it had been mentioned earlier.

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16979&highlight=lsi+sda

madmax

[rskarvan]

Well, if you really want to compare idea-dates, then look at my 9/5/01 thread about introducing a retro-sda.

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=528

Every once in a while, a manufacturer hits a real home run in the marketplace.
First, there was the new VW Beetle. Then, there was the PT Cruiser.
Both of these very successful vehicles are retro-based designs with modern components.
Another example is the Kawasaki ZRX M/C…. yet another retro design with modern components.

What I am suggesting is very simple - and deserves to be produced.
Lets take a few Classic Polk Speaker designs from days-long-passed and build
them into new speakers with modern day components (kevlar drivers, 40Khz Tweeters, etc).

Perhaps, Polk could test this market by introducing just two speakers.
I would suggest the SRS 1.2 and the CRS+ designs.
Both of these speakers are highly unique and carry quite a bit of nostalgia value.
The SRS 1.2 could be like the Dodge Viper - designed to draw the crowd into the retailer.
Then, the consumer would go home with a set of "CRS+Retro's" (or, maybe a Monitor 10 Retro)
and be pleased.

This time though, Polk can take the 15 to 20 years of experience and build them way
better than the way they were before. But, rather than making them look space-age glossy….
Polk should stick to the visual styling que's from the past. Real Oak veneer. Lots of
Pretty wood showing. Cartoon'ish logo with the big heart. And, absolutely no AC power cords.

This wouldn't be a step backwards. But, rather, this would be a step to diversify the audio market.
Some people actually liked the big monuments in their living room.
Think about it… big screen TV's took off. Big speakers deserve the same opportunity.

I'm really not much of a retro guy. Generally, I really like modern designs.
But, that's not to say that I don't appreciate some true classics from the past.
Of course, this entire line should incorporate SDA technology.
This time, the drivers will be angled slightly; thus, improving the SDA effect.
And, maybe a switch can be included to turn on or off the SDA feature based upon
customer preference or whim (similar to bipole/dipole switches).

Think about it.

[PolkWannabie]

Originally posted by F1nut
As for the width of the cabinets, look around at what high-end makers offer, they are not small nor skinny. This isn't MY statement ... It's Polk's ... So there's no need to convince me ...

As was said ... it's being worked on ... I think tho to have the objectives of SDA, narrow width and "reasonable" price is a difficult combination ... if for whatever reason the marketing organization at Polk thinks that a 7-8" width is what it takes for mass appeal ... and ... it's the mass appeal that keeps the price down then it may be awhile before they come up with something that works at a price they want to go to market with ...

I'm sure if they wanted to start building SDA's tomorrow with no regard for cabinet width or MSRP they could be crankin 'em out shortly ... but I think they are a more sophisticated and astute organization than that ...

[madmax]

Originally posted by rskarvan
Well, if you really want to compare idea-dates, then look at my 9/5/01 thread about introducing a retro-sda.

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=528


Unfortunately you have been here longer than I thought...

madmax

[dorokusai]

SDA(Spy Photo) :D Just Kidding.

[fireshoes]

That's the LSi50 prototype I believe. I wish it would come out. I'd like a little more midrange in the LSi's.

[madmax]

One more thing I would like to throw out there. I am hoping for a fairly efficient speaker. Something that will mate with tube amps easily. The 1.2's and 2.3's are great with tubes. CRS+ just doesn't do it. The LSi's aren't good with tubes either. The 1C's are borderline at best.
I could get over it if not possible though...
madmax

[dorokusai]

Actually it's LSi nothing prototype...it's just a mock up.

[cfrizz]

Originally posted by PolkWannabie

As was said ... it's being worked on ... I think tho to have the objectives of SDA, narrow width and "reasonable" price is a difficult combination ... if for whatever reason the marketing organization at Polk thinks that a 7-8" width is what it takes for mass appeal ... and ... it's the mass appeal that keeps the price down then it may be awhile before they come up with something that works at a price they want to go to market with ...



I know that for me the great appeal for getting my speakers was the size & the price. I have seen the SDA speakers, they are HUGE! There is no way you can gracefully squeeze them into a tiny apartment with everything else and still have room to move. Or worse yet a tiny little bedroom.

With the way they make apts & bedrooms these days skinny towers is the way to go if you want a big speaker. Otherwise you have to own a house.

[PolkWannabie]

No argument ... however ... There is a large difference in width between the large SRS's at 21" wide and the SRT's which also have SDA and are 12" wide. They're very deep front to back like almost all current series of speakers but a design like this should fit almost anywhere width wise.

How wide are the RTA-8T's ?

[burdette]

Apologies if this has been stated or addressed... but...

Regarding SDA marketing... I think a great solution would be to set up a network of Polkaholics with the new SDAs in-home, who were willing to field calls or emails and give demonstrations. Hit the 10-20 major cities to start... get a guy up and running, maybe have a central 800 number or web site, and have someplace a prospective buyer can go to actually hear the speakers in an actual house. Maybe have each demonstrator keep one pair in stock. That could keep national advertising to a minimum.. the demonstrators could hit the major forums.. I mean, really, there are guys driving 3, 4 hours to hear LSis. I think they'd make the arrangements and drive an hour to have a cool, in-home demo of SDAs.. and with a pair there ready to take home.... I think the percentage of listeners to buyers would be high. Plus, as more and more people bought the speakers, I bet a lot of them would be willing to join the network... Polk could give them a cut.. even $20 bucks per pair sold via an audition... which would increase the network, which would increase the ability of more potential buyers to listen and buy.. which would grow the network...

The BEST Polk salesmen don't work at CC or Tweeter.. they are US.. the guys buying and running Polks in our homes, giving advice and recommendations to other people.

[amulford]

I would be willing to "sacrifice my privacy" for such a worthy cause.

The SDA's are just a beautifiul thing. The size doesn't matter as long as the cabinets are tastefully done. Perhaps they could be demoed, and then special ordered with available laminates to go with the individuals decor tastes.

Like Hbombtoo said - "I'd be all over that like a Hobo on a ham sammitch"

[cfrizz]

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
No argument ... however ... There is a large difference in width between the large SRS's at 21" wide and the SRT's which also have SDA and are 12" wide. They're very deep front to back like almost all current series of speakers but a design like this should fit almost anywhere width wise.

How wide are the RTA-8T's ?


Approximately 9" wide by 11" deep.

[xsmi]

Burdette,

Legacy Audio had demo sights set up throughout the country for people to audition their speakers in customers homes. I don't know how they were chosen but there were about 5 or 6 places between Ohio, Indiana an Michigan when they were direct only.

[George Grand]

You can't sell these things anymore cause everybodies wife is calling the shots these days. Forget it, it's not happening.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

[PolkWannabie]

You mean they're P-Whipped ?

[amulford]

George, you just have this way of putting things, ya know???

:D

[jdhdiggs]

Just my $0.02

If you used the LSi midrange drivers and offset the arrays of sepaker by half a speaker width, the cabinet would only need to be 10-12" wide and is shouldn't affect the imaging so much that an adjustment could not be made in the internal crossover network to compensate for the mismatched number of drivers.

What this looks like? Picture stacked pipes on end...

[jefft1314]

Hey I work at Circuit City and I own polks! So, the best polk salesmen are the ones who get the chance to sell the product who also own the product. The other day a woman came in looking at Sony Dream systems, she left with rm6700's and a psw 404. I had to take ten minutes to actually set up the 6700's then I had to spend like an hour and a half showing them other stuff and giving them just about every ounce of information I have on home audio, but in the end they bought the best sounding sattelite speaker system I've had the opportunity to hear, and own. Seriously, I have a really hard time listening to anything else at Circuit City other than Polk's stuff. We have an Onkyo 760 htib on display, and while it's a good value for the cost, I sit there at work wishing I was home listening to my speakers. Oh, and another thing, the Toshiba dvd player that everybody is raving about really does sound great. (sitting here listening to it, couldn't help but plug it again);)

[goingganzo]

also you could allways have 2 lines a lsi and a rti sda line. i know the tweates for the lsi cost alot mor e than the rt. also to get the wait down use some space age plastics as strong as mdfb but lighter. or maybe some fiberglass and line with wood veners. and also i am real big in ht and not that much as 2 channel just make some matching center and suround that is beefed up like the rt1000

[I-SIG]

bump!

Wes

[Larry Chanin]

Originally posted by Matt Polk
Over the past 15 years retailers seem to have taken one of two paths. Either they have focused on growth by becoming more mainstream or they have become more specialty oriented and focused on custom install. The result is that there are fewer and fewer places to go for a good old fashioned audiophile demo. That leaves us with few options for places to sell something like an SDA product.

...In the mean time I’ve wondered if there is enough interest out there for a couple of classic SDA products that we would sell direct or on-line.

Hi Matt,

We certainly appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts, ask what we think, but mostly importantly, not abandon your SDA children.

In reading the two excerpts from your observations I get the impression that you are limiting your target markets to either mainstream (current market) OR to custom installers, with possibly a “dash of direct marketing for SDA enthusiasts? Whereas a company with a limited spectrum of products and lesser reputation would be well advised to select a single appropriate market, Polk Audio has demonstrated that it has the technical skills and price/performance to pursue multiple markets. The trick is to target each product to the appropriate market(s).

With today’s cost-effective Internet technologies it’s a no-brainer to offer on-line direct marketing to all those consumers who trust the Polk name (or a glowing review) and don’t feel they need a demonstration. The on-line store should carry the entire line of Polk Audio products. I think you would be shocked by how many folks fall into this category. I have purchased Polk speakers since 1987, SDA-1Cs, CS100, CS400I, fx500is, M3IIs, and most recently LC265is. I have never heard a demonstration of any of them and I have not been disappointed. Oh, I take that back, I was disappointed once. I was in the market for fx1000s, but I couldn’t find where to buy them, so I had to settle for fx500 from Circuit City.

If Polk Audio was in the on-line direct marketing business at the time I unquestionably would have purchased the more expensive speakers. Unfortunately, they weren’t and Circuit City was clueless regarding certain higher-priced Polk products that didn’t fit in with Circuit City’s marketing demographics.

It’s good that Polk Audio is finally expanding it’s Brick and Mortar retailers to Tweeter, but that’s not enough. Why not pursue the Custom Installer marketplace? Ah, it takes the right type of products. and good reviews of those products. I happen to be an avid home theater enthusiast. A lot , perhaps most custom home theaters don’t even use floorstanding main speakers any more. They use relatively expensive In-Wall speakers totally hidden behind acoustic treatments. Why not introduce an In-Wall SDA for custom installers? Think of the superior imaging they would provide that is essential in a home theater venue. Match them up with suitable centers and On-wall and In-wall dipoles and direct radiating speakers. The basic designs are almost there, the LSi and LCi series with drivers appropriately matched to the new SDA offering. Perhaps offer a suitable subwoofer to round things out. I'll bet that you would be able to give Triad and Snell, etc. a run for their money in that market.

In summary don’t pick a single marketing approach that assumes you must have demonstration rooms, pursue multiple marketing approaches for different products, but institute more robust on-line markets for ALL products.

Larry

[jmasterj]

I'm one of those people that believes in keeping it simple. Were all here, and there, about new drivers new cabinets new technology. Nothings wrong with the old technology. It's selling everyday, on e-bay, in the forum, and by word of mouth. You don't need to complicate this thing Matt. Sale some SDA's factory direct. You don't have to change anything. Pick a few models put them in production, and sale them. You need to quit playing around, and Make This Money!!!

[PolkThug]

If the new SDA's have great drivers, cross-overs and build quality, you won't have to put them in chain stores, an Internet-only distribution channel will suffice. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will be first to take a leap of faith on the first orders, then its all good from there.

Regards,
PolkThug

[jmasterj]

Matt,

I had given up the hope of ever having another pair of SDA speakers. It was to me like a love lost never to be found again. See I won't buy them from the Forum, and I won't buy them off e-bay. I, like so many others, have been waiting for you to sale some more SDA's.

I personally am on my second set of polks, and I can honestly say that when I was shopping the only question was which Polk was I going to get. See the SDA's I use to have had made such a lasting impression that I had to have Polk Audio Speakers.

I am very pleased with my RT1000i, CS245i, FX300i surround sound system. It is excellent for home theater. But, It can't touch the SDA 2's I had when it comes to imaging, impact, soundstage depth, or dynamics. The SDA's win hands down.

I already have the power amp, and pre amp I'm waiting for you.

So From: All Of US WHO ARE WAITING TO YOU:

" DO WHAT YOU DO"

[TroyD]

If someone else has already chimed in with this idea....forgive me, I'm too lazy to read.

I think that IF Polk wanted to muscle back into the high end and put the SDA's back out on the market, they could do it. They already have an in with Tweeter which makes it easier but more importantly, they have economy of scale which means that they could afford to take the risk and fail without ruining the company. Anyhow, I think that there are multiple avenues that Polk could persue that a smaller company probably couldn't.

That said, I think that the on-line / direct thing is a fantastic idea. Look at Magnepan and the MMG. I think that if they did something along that line, they would do quite well. Offer a smaller SDA direct from Polk at a nearly giveaway price and offer full trade in value on a bigger SDA model at a brick and mortar dealer.

The biggest issue with SDA like any non-traditional speaker (ie ribbons) is getting people to hear them. Once they do, they are generally hooked and want more, bigger, better. I hate to say be a copy cat but the MMG deal that Maggie offers, IMO, is just what the doctor ordered to reinvigorate SDA.

Just my .02

SDA Lovin' BDT

[spyderman]

I would bet Crutchfield would jump on the opportunity for a national cross-marketing SDA program...

They'd be ideal to handle such a program, since the majority of their sales occur online/phone.

This would allow Polk to focus on what they do best... Audio forum discussions...:D

["Polk" Paul DiComo]

Just a quick note to let you guys know we are reading your replies with interest and thinking...

Thanks for the thought and attention you guys put into this. We are truly blessed with the finest customers on the planet...

[I-SIG]

Thanks to you too, Paul!

I'm we'll all try to keep up the good work! (if you want to call it that!)

Wes

[F1nut]

Originally posted by "Polk" Paul DiComo
Just a quick note to let you guys know we are reading your replies with interest and thinking...



Paul, while I/we have your attention........

It is imperative that any new SDA's be designed for MUSIC first and foremost as the originals were. Polk already has plenty of speakers aimed at the HT crowd, it's time for a true audiophile reference quality 2 channel speaker.

Make a statement!!!

Regards,
Jesse

[shack]

it's time for a true audiophile reference quality 2 channel speaker.
I agree! Music FIRST...and if it sounds good for HT...all the better.

[dcarlson]

Originally posted by F1nut
Paul, while I/we have your attention........

It is imperative that any new SDA's be designed for MUSIC first and foremost as the originals were. Polk already has plenty of speakers aimed at the HT crowd, it's time for a true audiophile reference quality 2 channel speaker.

Make a statement!!!

Regards,
Jesse

Hell yeah!

[Larry Chanin]

Originally posted by F1nut
It is imperative that any new SDA's be designed for MUSIC first and foremost as the originals were. Polk already has plenty of speakers aimed at the HT crowd, it's time for a true audiophile reference quality 2 channel speaker.



Originally posted by shack
I agree! Music FIRST...and if it sounds good for HT...all the better.


Originally posted by dcarlson
Hell yeah!.

Hi Jesse, shack and dcarlson,

Although I'm a home theater enthusiast I really don't have a problem with your comments, because I'm using my 17 year old STEREO Dimensional Arrays very effectively as main speakers in a multi-channel home theater.

However, not being an audiophile perhaps I don't appreciate the subtle differences between the two venues. Nevertheless it still leads me to question the premise of your statement. Why do you feel that we're dealing with a mutually exclusive situation? Couldn't reference speakers designed to have superior imaging and accuracy for 2 channel music be just as suited as mains in a home theater as well?

Conversely, the last SDAs that that Polk Audio produced were the Signature Reference Theater (SRT) system. They were specifically designed for home theater, but wouldn't these Polk reference speakers be suitable audiophile speakers for either two channel, or multi-channel music as well?

Thanks.

Larry

[madmax]

All of the HT speakers I've heard (including polks) seem to have a big bump in both the treble and the bass. Including the SRT's. Very annoying to me for HS but for HT you kinda need it to make them sound exciting. Any one else??

madmax

[PolkWannabie]

MadMax,

Seem to have ? what's the SPL meter say ? and at what freqs ? I posted a freq response curve for the SRT's elsewhere at <= 100 hz which is pretty flat down to 16 hz.

PS ... The tweeters arrived in fine shape ... great packing job ... Thanks

[F1nut]

Larry,

Yes, reference speakers designed for 2 channel music can and are used for HT. Said speakers are more accurate than speakers aimed at HT use, which as Madmax points out, tend to be tipped up at the ends and make lousy music speakers. IMO, a good music speaker works just fine for HT although I've heard others that don't agree with that. As much as I enjoyed my one and only SRT demo with music at Polk HQ I did think the bass was a tad too heavy. We also had a demo of the brand new (at the time) RTi12's and if I recall correctly everyone agreed that for HT they were great, but for music, nada......not cutting it. I feel the same way about the LSi's and that's why I made my comment to Paul.

Jesse

[PolkWannabie]

F1,

Regarding the SRT's ... Similarly to other subs there are a variety of settings one can use to calibrate them and customize the output with. I would have thought that at Polk someone would have set them as close to ideal as possible, but I can also state that it's very easy to over do it with controls at the control center or the remote.

The one thing I find surprising is that more sub manufacturers don't offer remote control capability since imho subs typically need more ongoing tweeking than anything else and that's best done from the listening area.

Larry,

I got the set I have primarily for HT and to a lesser extent for non critical two channel listening. The surprise was imh(non audiophile)o just how good they are for music. I recently got a pair of LS90's the other day for a different set up in the house and while they really have very nice music presntation, when A/B'ing them against the SRT's they are imho just not at the same level in any departement.

[Larry Chanin]

madmax and Jesse,

Thanks very much for the explanations.

Larry

[Larry Chanin]

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
Regarding the SRT's ... Similarly to other subs there are a variety of settings one can use to calibrate them and customize the output with. I would have thought that at Polk someone would have set them as close to ideal as possible, but I can also state that it's very easy to over do it with controls at the control center or the remote.

The one thing I find surprising is that more sub manufacturers don't offer remote control capability since imho subs typically need more ongoing tweeking than anything else and that's best done from the listening area.

Hi Rick,

I think you've hit on something very important.

All of my speakers are Polks except for my subwoofers. I've just recently upgraded to a Velodyne digital drive. We frequently hear about some subwoofers being "musical", but most are not. I think what most people mean is that the musical subs are more accurate and have lower distortion. These digital Velodynes have a digital servo system setting labeled Theater/Music Indicator. The settings vary from one to eight with one being maximum theater, most slam; and eight being maximum music, most accurate.

In addition the digital drive Velodynes offer a lot of remote control capabilities to eliminate any severe low frequency bumps caused by the room or the blending with the mains. They come with a calibrated measurement microphone, and a built-in digital 8 band Graphic and Parametric Equalizer. They've got built-in low frequency test sweeps and a computer application that connects to your display device to provide a real-time frequency response of the subwoofer/mains at the listening position. You can adjust the frequency response just about as flat as you want, even too flat if you're not careful. ;)

So what does this have to do with SDAs? Well, if Polk were to provide a basic SDA without an integral subwoofer, and a separate adjustable subwoofer mated to the SDA, then it might be possible to build an SDA that accommodates both audiophiles and home theater buffs. I'm not suggesting that it has to have all the bells and whistles of the Velodynes, especially if they were designed to acoustically "dovetail" with one an other. The idea is to have the option of tweaking the performance as needed.

Just a thought.

Larry

[madmax]

My earlier statement above was probably too general. The SRT's didn't have the treble bump, just the bass was too overpowering. It is easy to get used to more and more bass without realizing it may be skewed, especially with a powered sub. Also with the LSi's, they blew me away with an HT demo but for music I just didn't enjoy them as much.
madmax

[PolkWannabie]

Originally posted by Larry Chanin
So what does this have to do with SDAs? Well, if Polk were to provide a basic SDA without an integral subwoofer, and a separate adjustable subwoofer mated to the SDA, then it might be possible to build an SDA that accommodates both audiophiles and home theater buffs. I'm not suggesting that it has to have all the bells and whistles of the Velodynes, especially if they were designed to acoustically "dovetail" with one an other. The idea is to have the option of tweaking the performance as needed.

Just a thought.

Larry Agreed. IMHO this is the best of both worlds where a manufacturer COULD design different levels of qualities in the upper and lower frequencies / cabinets. For example the uppers could be of a minimum of CRS+ design to maximum of SRS 1.2 TL ( without the PR ) or SRT design while the lowers could range from a mini to maxi sub. This would allow consumers to mix and match the upper and lower cabinets they wanted from minimum to maximum based on performance and price. The upper portion of the SRT's as designed are from a size perspective really a largish bookshelf speaker and are totally separable from the subs.

[shack]

In speaker building (as with most anything audio) everthing in the design is a compromise as there are always limiting conditions...size, cost, marketability, etc... Polk is no different. In the early days and up to a few years ago, H-Fi was developed and designed to reproduce music...not just sound. When they were tested they used music and the end result was how good the music sounded. Today, due to the demands of the marketplace, Home Theater is driving the demand (for the most part) and how the speakers work in that environment is a big consideration. In theory a really good speaker for music is a really good speaker for HT, but in a practical sense the designs of late have been to optimize the HT experience when making compromises. For instance. There are some speakers that are very bold and dynamic at high SPLs but aren't able to do well when softer, quieter passages of music are played. As mentioned, increased bass and treble seem to be a "characteristic" of speakers degined for HT. I have often listened to speakers that were on the "bright" side that I thought would be very good for HT (accentuating the spoken word and various sound effects) but felt they would become tiresome for extended music listening.

In the high end of audio this may not be the case. Dynaudio Evidence speakers are probably designed for optimal music reproduction and with the knowledge some will be used in a HT application. At their price, compromise may not be an issue.

My point is this...design the "NEW" SDAs for the 2 channel music listener and if there are compromises to be made, do so with that in mind. Chances are that they will do well for either application...which as I said...is all the better.

[Larry Chanin]

Hi shack,

Thanks for your response.

Yes, I think we home theater enthusiasts agree with the premise that good speakers designed for music are likely to work well for home theater. And I'd have to also agree that, everything in design is a compromise.

However, what Rick and I are suggesting is that if you accept the possibility of not putting the low bass drivers in the same enclosure as the tweeters, mid-range and SDA drivers, then the design compromises between music and home theater are likely to be reduced. This is particularly true if you add appropriate user controlled electronics to tailor the sound to each venue.

Even though we are talking about a higher end product than the current Polk Audio line, there still might be economies of scale with this approach. For example, rather than diffusing their efforts in designing and marketing two types of SDAs, one for music and one for home theater, this approach would permit them to accommodate both venues. In addition, there is the inherent acoustic advantage of being able to locate the subwoofer(s) independently of the main speakers. This acoustic advantage works for both music and home theater.

Finally, so I'm not misunderstood, if I had to choose between "all-drivers-in-one speaker enclosure" then I agree with you and Jesse, I would choose an accurate "musical" speaker for my home theater. After all, how many movies have you heard that didn't have a large portion of the sound track comprised of music? ;) However, why be forced to choose this traditional all-in-one approach in the first place if Polk is willing to entertain a new approach?

Larry

[jmasterj]

Hi Guys,

I keep feeling we're over thinking this thing. If I remember correctly most of us who want new SDA's want them at" whatever (reasonable) cost." That being the case, it would seem most cost effective to make as few changes as possible. As I read forum post on SDA speakers, I'm hearing satisfied customers. Even from people who's speakers are 17 years old. That suggest to me that there is little, if anything, wrong with the original SDA speaker design.

I still believe Matt should pick out (3) models at different price points, and just put them back into production. That's the most direct way. I wouldn't spend a lot of marketing dollars either. Just a side bar on existing ads. Saying something like " Due to popular Demand " Polk SDA's are back... (3) models limited production factory direct etc.

As far as what you choose to use them for, thats personal taste. I know we all want to keep the price down, I'm sure we want to get them back into production as soon as possible. That way people looking to purchase speakers in the near future can have the added choice of some Polk SDA "true stereo" speakers.

I don't think Matt needs to reinvent the wheel. Just start the wheels to turning...

[Terrax]

Very well said, jmasterj. I could and would agree with your take on this. :cool:

-Terry

[I-SIG]

Originally posted by jmasterj
Hi Guys,

I keep feeling we're over thinking this thing. If I remember correctly most of us who want new SDA's want them at" whatever (reasonable) cost." That being the case, it would seem most cost effective to make as few changes as possible. As I read forum post on SDA speakers, I'm hearing satisfied customers. Even from people who's speakers are 17 years old. That suggest to me that there is little, if anything, wrong with the original SDA speaker design.

I still believe Matt should pick out (3) models at different price points, and just put them back into production. That's the most direct way. I wouldn't spend a lot of marketing dollars either. Just a side bar on existing ads. Saying something like " Due to popular Demand " Polk SDA's are back... (3) models limited production factory direct etc.

As far as what you choose to use them for, thats personal taste. I know we all want to keep the price down, I'm sure we want to get them back into production as soon as possible. That way people looking to purchase speakers in the near future can have the added choice of some Polk SDA "true stereo" speakers.

I don't think Matt needs to reinvent the wheel. Just start the wheels to turning...

Here's what I think is a major problem with this approach:

Labor-intensive drivers.

I've heard from reliable sources that the laminate used on the paper cones of the SDA's, Monitors, etc. must be applied by hand! Think of this cost no matter where the plant is located! Remember that Polk, until very recently, has been out of SDA drivers for many months, maybe years in some cases.

For the economies of scale to work to the fullest extent, it will help tremendously if current-production parts can be used as much as possible.

Wes

[Larry Chanin]

Originally posted by jmasterj
Hi Guys,

I keep feeling we're over thinking this thing. If I remember correctly most of us who want new SDA's want them at" whatever (reasonable) cost." That being the case, it would seem most cost effective to make as few changes as possible. As I read forum post on SDA speakers, I'm hearing satisfied customers. Even from people who's speakers are 17 years old. That suggest to me that there is little, if anything, wrong with the original SDA speaker design.

I still believe Matt should pick out (3) models at different price points, and just put them back into production. That's the most direct way. I wouldn't spend a lot of marketing dollars either. Just a side bar on existing ads. Saying something like " Due to popular Demand " Polk SDA's are back... (3) models limited production factory direct etc.

As far as what you choose to use them for, thats personal taste. I know we all want to keep the price down, I'm sure we want to get them back into production as soon as possible. That way people looking to purchase speakers in the near future can have the added choice of some Polk SDA "true stereo" speakers.

I don't think Matt needs to reinvent the wheel. Just start the wheels to turning...

Hi jmasterj,

Yes, I agree too, there's a lot of satisfied customers here at Club Polk. And yes, there's nothing fundamentally wrong from a technology point of view with the old design. Nevertheless there is a reason Polk Audio stopped making them. I suspect that reason is there weren't enough people buying them to maintain profitabiliy. I doubt if things have changed much other than getting worse from a marketing point of view. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, it's not in vogue today to be building such large speakers. Take a look at Russman's poll, there's only a small number (about 76 at last count) of diehard Polk fans who would even buy them.

Matt obviously knows this better than anyone. His last attempt to reintroduce large SDAs, the SRTs, was rather short lived. A new approach is needed. With all due respect, he can't just casually mention in an advertisement that SDAs are back. Only those 76 folks who responded to the poll even know what an SDA is.

No, unfortunately its going to take serious advertising of a new and improved, scalable SDA line of speakers that coexist in most listening environments, i.e., dedicated home theaters, dedicated music rooms, multi-purpose rooms, etc. Such a speaker system must employ both the old SDA technology as well as modern drivers and user adjustable electronics. Such an approach might require an other seasoned audio partner to provide the Bass module and electronics while Polk concentrates on the SDA modules and overall architecture.

Larry

[PolkWannabie]

Even if for no other reason the SRT's are in a whole different classification from a price ( MSRP ) perspective than anything else Polk has produced.

It's one thing to toss around the idea of dropping $3k on speakers, $7-10k leaves a whole lot of the folks who'd even consider spending $3k behind. At that price it probably would have left me in the dust as well.

There might be a fair amount of interest in these forums even if nowhere else to getting a new technology eqivalent to the 1.2's at $3-4k, but how many of those would be willing to drop 2-3 times that much ? Probably not many, maybe even not any.

[Emlyn]

The interview with Matt Polk linked below has probably been seen by many Club Polk members, but I think it's worth a read again. The article indicates where Polk Audio was in 2000 and where the market was perceived to be heading. Interesting stuff.

Matt Polk Interview (http://www.tnt-audio.com/intervis/polk_e.html)

The more I have rearranged different systems in my house, the more I'm becoming inclined to believe that home theater is not compatible with top notch music reproduction. A full set of the new RTi speakers coupled with an SVS subwoofer seems to me to be the best home theater system Polk has yet created for the regular person. However, to me, every currently available Polk Audio speaker system is compromised in terms of its musicality by the need to fit in with home theater needs. The pursuit of the home theater market seems to be a good business model that is certainly in keeping with Polk's philosophy of getting speakers designed and available to "regular people."

Audiophiles are not regular people though. Most don't want subwoofer/satellite systems for music. They want speakers that are capable by themselves of delivering clean undistorted sound in the common musical spectrum of around 30Hz to 20kHz. The last three speaker pairs I've purchased have been designed first and foremost for music. None of them require separate subwoofers for music. All three were Polk speakers, but Polk didn't make a dime on the sales from me because the speakers can only be purchased used. All were SDAs--2.3TL, 1C, 2B. For the prices used the speakers are unbeatable values for music, but they won't last forever. If in the future I'm looking for replacement speakers for an excellent two channel system, I can't look to Polk for new speakers. The current LSis don't cut it.

My point is, there is a market for purpose built two channel speakers systems. It may be a niche market, but it is there. A company can either choose to pursue the market or choose not to. Ultimately, it's a business decision only those in the know at Polk Audio can make. But, refusing to cede the two-channel speaker market makes sense to me even if a large speaker company's image benefits only slightly from a trickle of good publicity for still selling speakers that delight audiophiles on a budget. Polk won't reach this niche market by continuing to compromise on speaker designs.

[shack]

Originally posted by Larry Chanin
However, what Rick and I are suggesting is that if you accept the possibility of not putting the low bass drivers in the same enclosure as the tweeters, mid-range and SDA drivers, then the design compromises between music and home theater are likely to be reduced. This is particularly true if you add appropriate user controlled electronics to tailor the sound to each venue.

I have no interest in this concept. If I am going to spend $3,000 ± for the NEW SDAs I want the best music setup that amount money will buy. I don't need that level of sophistication for my HT.

Originally posted by Larry Chanin

Finally, so I'm not misunderstood, if I had to choose between "all-drivers-in-one speaker enclosure" then I agree with you and Jesse, I would choose an accurate "musical" speaker for my home theater. After all, how many movies have you heard that didn't have a large portion of the sound track comprised of music? ;) However, why be forced to choose this traditional all-in-one approach in the first place if Polk is willing to entertain a new approach?

I would much prefer to have a dedicated HT setup and a dedicated 2 channel music. The "new approach" you mention will still be a compromise and if not would probably be cost prohibative.

I guess my perspective is that the SDA is basically an "audiophile" concept that will not readily lend itself to the mass market HT crowd. Too big...not WAF friendly...don't match well with centers and surrounds...etc... If that is really the case...then make the SDA with the 2 channel crowd in mind and let everything else be multi-purpose.

Originally posted by Emlyn
My point is, there is a market for purpose built two channel speakers systems. It may be a niche market, but it is there. A company can either choose to pursue the market or choose not to. Ultimately, it's a business decision only those in the know at Polk Audio can make. But, refusing to cede the two-channel speaker market makes sense to me even if a large speaker company's image benefits only slightly from a trickle of good publicity for still selling speakers that delight audiophiles on a budget. Polk won't reach this niche market by continuing to compromise on speaker designs.
Very well said. I agree!

Whatever your particular bias is...at least Polk (and Matt) is getting an idea of what their customers think. And that has to be a good thing. It appears they are are paying attention. :D

[Larry Chanin]

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
Even if for no other reason the SRT's are in a whole different classification from a price ( MSRP ) perspective than anything else Polk has produced.

It's one thing to toss around the idea of dropping $3k on speakers, $7-10k leaves a whole lot of the folks who'd even consider spending $3k behind. At that price it probably would have left me in the dust as well.

There might be a fair amount of interest in these forums even if nowhere else to getting a new technology eqivalent to the 1.2's at $3-4k, but how many of those would be willing to drop 2-3 times that much ? Probably not many, maybe even not any.

Hi Rick,

Yes, you quite right. My reference to SRTs was inappropriate in the context of a discussion dealing with realistic price points.

My intent was to point out that in today's market the majority of the buying public is less tolerant of large speakers, even if they can afford them. No doubt I should have left it at that and omitted mentioning the SRTs.

Larry

[Larry Chanin]

Originally posted by Emlyn
The interview with Matt Polk linked below has probably been seen by many Club Polk members, but I think it's worth a read again. The article indicates where Polk Audio was in 2000 and where the market was perceived to be heading. Interesting stuff.

Matt Polk Interview (http://www.tnt-audio.com/intervis/polk_e.html)

The more I have rearranged different systems in my house, the more I'm becoming inclined to believe that home theater is not compatible with top notch music reproduction. A full set of the new RTi speakers coupled with an SVS subwoofer seems to me to be the best home theater system Polk has yet created for the regular person. However, to me, every currently available Polk Audio speaker system is compromised in terms of its musicality by the need to fit in with home theater needs. The pursuit of the home theater market seems to be a good business model that is certainly in keeping with Polk's philosophy of getting speakers designed and available to "regular people."

Audiophiles are not regular people though. Most don't want subwoofer/satellite systems for music. They want speakers that are capable by themselves of delivering clean undistorted sound in the common musical spectrum of around 30Hz to 20kHz. The last three speaker pairs I've purchased have been designed first and foremost for music. None of them require separate subwoofers for music. All three were Polk speakers, but Polk didn't make a dime on the sales from me because the speakers can only be purchased used. All were SDAs--2.3TL, 1C, 2B. For the prices used the speakers are unbeatable values for music, but they won't last forever. If in the future I'm looking for replacement speakers for an excellent two channel system, I can't look to Polk for new speakers. The current LSis don't cut it.

My point is, there is a market for purpose built two channel speakers systems. It may be a niche market, but it is there. A company can either choose to pursue the market or choose not to. Ultimately, it's a business decision only those in the know at Polk Audio can make. But, refusing to cede the two-channel speaker market makes sense to me even if a large speaker company's image benefits only slightly from a trickle of good publicity for still selling speakers that delight audiophiles on a budget. Polk won't reach this niche market by continuing to compromise on speaker designs.

Hi Emlyn,

You've done an excellent job of getting to the core of the issue. Your reference to Mr. Polk's interview was extremely helpful in getting background and insights into his thinking and direction as well.

Perhaps, by definition, most audiophiles will never accept an approach that departs from the single enclosure model.

However, don't you think it would be possible for Polk Audio to design a subwoofer-SDA satellite system, bundled with the necessary electronics, to surpass the performance of the original SDA designs when listening to 2-channel music?

If so, if it were mass produced do you think it would be possible for Polk to set a price point that would make it competitive, or do you feel that the traditional SDA approach would prove to be more economical with acceptable performance?

Regardless of its price and performance, do you think serious audiophiles would never buy it because there's a stigma associated with a multi-box approach?

Thanks.

Larry

[Emlyn]

Originally posted by Larry Chanin
Hi Emlyn,
However, don't you think it would be possible for Polk Audio to design a subwoofer-SDA satellite system, bundled with the necessary electronics, to surpass the performance of the original SDA designs when listening to 2-channel music?

If so, if it were mass produced do you think it would be possible for Polk to set a price point that would make it competitive, or do you feel that the traditional SDA approach would prove to be more economical with acceptable performance?

Regardless of its price and performance, do you think serious audiophiles would never buy it because there's a stigma associated with a multi-box approach?

Larry

I like the general idea of an SDA subwoofer-satellite system, but I'm guessing it may be more expensive as a whole system to bring to market than a simple "classic" SDA layout speaker. Separate SDA satellites about the size of the old SDA-CRS (LSi9?) cabinets would seem to work well as satellites. Maybe a good way for Polk Audio to work the reintroduction of SDAs would be to develop a pair of small SDAs and a pair of floor standing speakers. The smaller speakers could be paired with any subwoofer depending on how much bass a user wanted. The larger speakers would be intended to stand by themselves.

I love the old SDA design because of how all the drivers blend well together. I'm not really in favor of bringing back the huge SDA 1.2 sized speakers because they are really overkill for most "regular" homes and would seem to be out of place in Polk's current speaker lineup.

It is difficult to speculate on the best design possibilities though, because we don't know what new SDA tricks Polk has developed or whether Polk would be willing to abandon the power port in favor of a passive radiator. Would be interesting to know more.

[brettw22]

Is there a need to reinvent the wheel here? Building them seperately wouldn't be cost productive IMO. Mass produced or not, you're talking about a different beast going that route while the whole intent on reviving this line would be to bring back a speaker that they LOVED the sound of. Making them into seperate boxes would be more of an SRT revival than the look and sound of the beloved SDA.

I haven't ever heard or seen the monster 1.2's, but I can tell you that would be the size I wanted to see out of a revival of this classic. They don't only have to build the a 1.2 sized speaker, but I think that it would HUGELY benefit them to produce that since there is still a huge demand for them nowadays after how long out of production?

[I-SIG]

Check out my poll in the 2-channel forum!

Wes

[jmasterj]

Hi to all it might apply to:

I don't think we are on the same page. Nothing in my humble opinion is wrong with Polks current lineup of LSi-Rti or the new monitor series he's comming out with. I like the RT1000i, CS245i, FX300i speakers I already own. All I'm saying is, if it's possible, I'd personally prefer to buy a new pair of SDA's from Polk. I know the speakers are large, and the cabinets are outdated if compared to speakers of today. I don't care. They will fit in my room just fine. Now if it's only 76 or so die hard SDA lovers," a cult following if you will," then Matt need only provide a very limited amount, and thats what we would like to see. Once again I'm not suggesting he go into full scale production of these models. I don't think,if I read what he was saying correctly, he was thinking large scale. Just trying to get an idea of how much intrest for them there is out here, that way he knows just about how many to make. Maybe short runs of so many each. Entry level, mid, and high. Some replacement parts, and shut it down. If somewhere in the future the demands rise again, then another short run. I'll be willing to bet you though, there will be demands.

I don't know about profitability, I don't know what it cost to produce these speakers in today's dollars. All I know is what I like, and I like those speakers. The SDA's launched Polk Audio. Maybe they weren't enough to keep it giong, that I can't say, but they damn sure was enough to get it started.

I believe we think of them like a vintage car, as a classic, excellent of it's kind. No, maybe it's not practical to produce today, or popular,or for the mass. But for me, it's the best sound I want to to buy. Once again my personal choice of polk speaker is the SDA... and if he makes some more I've got to have em !
Just Like That.

[brody05]

Hi all,
I thought I would put in a perspective from overseas.
In New Zealand only 4 pairs of SRT speakers were ever sold. I was fortunate to one of the lucky ones and own a pair.

The biggest problem encounted (and I'm not sure if this is true in the US) by me was the predudice against the brand name of Polk Audio, In mine and many others opinion Polk is a great speaker producer and although there has been some speakers made by Polk that were not so great they have had more than their fair share of successes, (I guess that will always happen with a brand that targets so many different customers and levels of spending).

I got to the point of not telling some that I owned a pair of Polk SRT's because nobody knew what they were and switched off after hearing the name Polk (I'm talking about people with expensive systems that thought they were too good), the few that I did manage to get around for a demo were truely amazed and I know those who have experienced SRT's know what I mean.

I wonder how Cinepro got on with marketing SRT's at the top end of the spectrum, if I remember right they had a couple of options in regards to setup, but I am guessing not very well as they went bust didn't they, I guess what I am trying to say is that no matter how much people like me love them and want to see them out there for others to buy it is not profitable for Polk as they will not be able to sell enough to make money.

I would say that the SRTs were near perfect, I couldn't think of any economical vaible way to improve on them, the fronts were basically two halves put togeather and the center was one of those halves. I would however go so far as to say the only thing needed is the front left and right speakers and the control unit, you can mix and match anything else you want from there, for ex I have a pair of RT2000i in the rear, a pair of RT55i as my center (both in the front) and a pair of FX1000 as my side, sounds awesome and to be honest better than the SRT rears and center that the entire system comprised of, and at the end of the day it is the fronts that make two channel music a dream and bring every movies sound effects to the awe level that I love.

If there was ever a run of SRT stuff done again I would suggest that making it to order and having the option of buying as seperates would be one way of going about it, but the less of anything you make, the more it costs to make them.

I hope to one day see adverts for more being made but I wont hold my breath. I just find it dissapionting that something so great is no longer being produced, but thats economics for you.




:)

[PolkWannabie]

I think this is what Larry and I were sort of suggesting as well ...

A mix and match if you will of something from 60 hz and up or what would equate to the SRT main sats and then other options for subs etc.

Although the SRT subs are fine after tinkering with them they still are not at the level of something like the SVS PB2+'s and I can't tell you how many times I've thought of swapping some SVS's in and the SRT subs to elsewhere.

As far as the main sats go, I haven't heard many speakers that come anywhere near what they are capable of including anything else in the Polk line since the beginning of time.

[Larry Chanin]

Originally posted by jmasterj
Now if it's only 76 or so die hard SDA lovers," a cult following if you will," then Matt need only provide a very limited amount, and thats what we would like to see. Once again I'm not suggesting he go into full scale production of these models. I don't think,if I read what he was saying correctly, he was thinking large scale. Just trying to get an idea of how much intrest for them there is out here, that way he knows just about how many to make.

Hi jmasterj,

Perhaps it would be useful at this point if Matt clarified his position with an other posting on this thread.

However, as a successful businessman I doubt he was planning on starting a new project just to satisfy less than 100 die hard SDA lovers, no matter how loyal we are. Just as a reminder here's what he said:



I’m sure there are a lot of people on the forum who know about SDA and would have no problem buying something like that on-line based on reputation alone but I doubt that would be enough by itself to make the project feasible. The question then is, how do reach enough other people who might be interested but who are not as familiar with SDA or how to convince those who are skeptical?

Larry

[VR3]

I believe it would cost ALOT more to produce a smaller number of products than a large amount, which is why Polk dosnt do it.

Not to mention all of the R&D to produce it, then only sell a 100 or so.

So that idea isnt to good, they would HAVE** to go in stores, and they would HAVE** to be priced good, and they would HAVE** to be setup for a good demo to show them off.

The sound is spectacular, now they just will have to capture it at an affordable price and get them in stores where size isnt the real issue.

I was in Sound Systems the other day, and they had some large Boston Acoustic floorstanders - about 10-12 inches wide. It still looked good and didnt take up much room. I dont think side is that big of an issue.

You figure the RTi70 is 8.5" wide, so 3.5" more, you could go SDA.

[brody05]

I agree that size doesn't have that much of a bearing, just looking at them gives a sense of dominance before even turning them on.
However I dont think there is any R & D to go into it, they have the technology, they will have the 'jigs' for building them again, as far as exposure goes, those who want them already know about them, why advertise or push a product that is already a legend to those that will be the buyers, those who don't obvoiusly have no passion for home theater or Polk Audio and wouldn't spend the money anyway.
Sadly the main market is with 'us' here. Some questions for Mathew:
How many have been made in the past? with the last 'run' of SRTs how many were actually sold over a period of how long and how hard was the advertising drive behind it?
In April of 99 the serial no on the reciept I have here is numbers are 1251 and 1252.
It is a niche market to be aiming at and most in that group are 'audiophilles' that would turn their nose up at Polk before even spending the time to demo and 'learn' the ability of SRT / SDA.

[jmasterj]

Thanks Larry,

You really sort of put things in perspective for me with that last post. I had hoped that maybe, just maybe. But realisticlly now I see it's a numbers game. It's easy to get caught up when you have the ear of the CEO of a company you've done business with. Thats a unique situation. Polk is the only company that I've brought goods from, of which I belong to a forum.

I feel like the air has just been let out of my balloon. I say that because as I remember back when I had my SDA speakers everyone who came by my house loved the sound that my system reproduced. It was for most the absolute best system they had ever heard. However, not one of them was I able to persuade to buy a pair of SDA's. They were simply not on that level. Even today with my surround sound system I find the same thing. They can't afford or won't invest the money. Trying to develop more intrest sure, will it turn into sales? I don't think so.

So unless I hear something real positive from Polk this is my last entry on this subject. It's just like I'm playing with myself. Not that I don't. Just it's not the same feeling if you know what I mean.

[BobMcG]

Many of us have been after Polk for years to re-issue at least a small family of new SDAs. Even two sizes would be good. Say one along the lines of a new 1C and another along the lines of a new 2.3 or 1.2. I would like to see them stay with the single cabinet design and with two-channel music in mind. Updated components is all that's really required to freshen the SDAs up. The R&D on SDA technology has been done and it works. No real need to spend hugh amounts of money figuring it all out again. If there is some new software available that could fine tune it in some way, well all the better.

[VR3]

Well see --

They would STILL have to put in tons of R&D...

Or, they would have to use all of the old drivers with new enclosures.

Umm, what would be the point? 1/3 the price...EBay!

You figure they re-release a LSI/SDA hybrid like the 1.2.

They would have to configure in all the drivers to go right with a PR....positioning - make sure it works right. Trial and error - its not a start and finish type deal....

Because it would make zero sense to remake the same 20 year old speakers.

[scottnbnj]

Originally written by BIG MAN
I think someone on the forum suggested using LSi components in a classic SDA format and that’s a pretty interesting idea. There are also some new tricks in SDA that this group might really like.

you've got my attention.

mho, sda/lsi is a good idea. with as much currency as bad demo's get(me too with sda, lsi and lci), lsi is a known quantity and sda would be a step up from there. though, the trade off is the press lsi gets for finicky mating habits. i haven't had the problem with my humble gear but i don't know if it balances for folks that don't already have lsi experience.

on the other hand, past lsi reviewers will be in line for the follow-up and, i guess, will report the uh,.. magic in contrast to their experience with very similar speaks without sda. that is living large if you're wanting to show what sda can do.

getting them in the hands of more reviewers than the lsi got would help too.

so, does lsi have enough penetration to make this a factor? i'm not the person to answer, but for me it would make pulling the trigger a lot easier.

)

p.s. if you're taking orders for w/ or w/o subs, if at all possible, i'd prefer at least one model that is not a floorstander.

[xsmi]

I've been gone awhile and I must admit I have only partially read the post above but people listen. For $3k why not go for the best two channel possible. Sub/Sat is NOT it. What we need is a speaker that when an old Polk head looks at it, it brings them to tears. And when they are fire up the heart races because not only in look but also in sound they can sense the lineage that is SDA. I really don't want to harp on SRT's but I'm telling you a powered sub has no business within 10' of SDA.

[BobMcG]

With all respect, my point was that Polk has already done the bulk of the work (R&D) in designing SDA. They have that figured out. By updating one or more of the previous models the cost of R&D would be minimal in comparision and would help keep costs down to everyone. Speaking strictly for myself, this would be enough to satisiy me.

[VR3]

I understand completely...

Personally, I would like them to make a speaker with multiple tweeters again.

[brettw22]

OK, assuming that they were to use the LSi drivers in the SDA revival, I can't imagine that "cost effictive" would be ANYwhere in that equasion.

Think of the price points of the LSi15 and 25. You have 4 drivers per pair there and they have price points of $1500-2500/pair. Try creating a 1.2 sized SDA based on the drivers alone and they're gonna be priced way above and beyond what people are really looking to spend. I realize that the 'within reasonable cost' was in there, but I don't see it with the LSi drivers.

I'm curious though, what size were all the drivers on the old SDA's? Were they 6.5" or smaller? I don't really like 5 1/4 drivers personally......though I suppose that would be a different world if there were 6 or 8 of them on each speaker staring at me......

[scottnbnj]

Originally posted by xsmi
I've been gone awhile and I must admit I have only partially read the post above but people listen. For $3k why not go for the best two channel possible. Sub/Sat is NOT it. What we need is a speaker that when an old Polk head looks at it, it brings them to tears. And when they are fire up the heart races because not only in look but also in sound they can sense the lineage that is SDA. I really don't want to harp on SRT's but I'm telling you a powered sub has no business within 10' of SDA.

i have no bone in this if a 3k floorstander is entry level.

did someone say 3k floorstander is entry?

are there technical reasons that an entry level sda could not work on stands or could only troll as low as, say, lsi9's?

)

[xsmi]

I was assuming that the $3k would be a floor stander. I would hope Polk wouldn't produce a bookshelf in that price range.

[Larry Chanin]

Originally posted by jmasterj
Thanks Larry,

You really sort of put things in perspective for me with that last post. I had hoped that maybe, just maybe. But realisticlly now I see it's a numbers game. It's easy to get caught up when you have the ear of the CEO of a company you've done business with. Thats a unique situation. Polk is the only company that I've brought goods from, of which I belong to a forum.

I feel like the air has just been let out of my balloon. I say that because as I remember back when I had my SDA speakers everyone who came by my house loved the sound that my system reproduced. It was for most the absolute best system they had ever heard. However, not one of them was I able to persuade to buy a pair of SDA's. They were simply not on that level. Even today with my surround sound system I find the same thing. They can't afford or won't invest the money. Trying to develop more intrest sure, will it turn into sales? I don't think so.

So unless I hear something real positive from Polk this is my last entry on this subject. It's just like I'm playing with myself. Not that I don't. Just it's not the same feeling if you know what I mean.

Hi jmasterj,

Please don't get discouraged and give up hope. As you point out very few CEOs take the time to personally ask their customers what they think. Furthermore, Mr. Polk designed the SDAs so there's probably an emotional attachment that might help somewhat in mitigating the numbers game.

One thing that is becoming clear to me as I read the various member's comments is that regardless of whether you lean toward music or home theater, the SDAs are likely a niche market. That is, they probably won't appeal to the majority of Polk Audio's current mass market if for no other reason than price.

So regardless of the design of the new SDA offering, I think the price points will narrow the buying market to audiophiles, and/or custom installers, not the average consumer market.

It is easy for those of use who have loved our Polks for so many years to fall into the trap of thinking that if Matt builds them, the mass market will come with just a little R&D and advertising. As much as I would like to believe that, realistically it will take a moderate amount of R&D to assure Matt that he's still producing a speaker that can compete with the current competition in both performance and price. This is particularly true in the audiophile and custom installer markets, which as I have said earlier, I think will be the only viable markets for the price point.

Breaking into new markets is going to take more than a little advertising. It's going to take a lot of advertising and a product line that gets good reviews in audiophile and home theater magazines. In addition, as Matt points out, it will unfortunately also require brick and mortar demonstration rooms. However, once the word gets out, having a on-line marketing presence will be invaluable.

Larry

[DarqueKnight]

I think we all realize that anything can be sold if it is marketed effectively. However, Polk's marketing of the LSi series gives me some doubts as to whether they can successfully execute a marketing strategy for a revived SDA line.

Many of us are familiar with the horror stories of how LSi speakers have been and continue to be sold in retail stores where they are improperly set up without regard to a favorable acoustic environment, appropriate high-current amplification, and clean source components.

SDAs are even more demanding of appropriate acoustic environments and amplification. Furthermore, the consumer will have to be educated on the unique benefits of SDA technology and on how to set up the speakers for optimum performance. The realities of today's audio marketplace, with its emphasis on home theater, makes introducing a high-end two-channel speaker series with demanding setup requirements a formidible task. In addition to polling prospective customers, I think it would be in Polk's best interest to poll the better audio retailers in order to gauge their level of interest in properly setting up and selling these speakers. I would not like to see SDAs connected to cheap 50 watt receivers and sold side-by-side with washing machines and refrigerators (like the LSis).

Here are some other random thoughts on an SDA revival:

1. How many current SDA enthusiasts would actually spend money for new SDAs? These will not be cheap speakers. Are these SDA enthusiasts, some of them owning five or more pairs of vintage SDAs, going to dump their "old" SDAs on the used market and sign up for the "newest, latest and greatest"? I doubt it. I would be willing to replace the modified 1.2TLs in my two-channel rig, if, and only if, there was a substantial improvement in audio quality. My other six pairs are staying put.

2. Vintage SDAs can be modified and tweeked for subtantially better performance. Would a new pair of SDAs give me substantially better performance than a tweeked vintage pair? What would be the cost/benefit ratio between a tweeked vintage pair and a revived pair? What would be my incentive to upgrade?

3. Are there a large number of people interested in sonic accuracy and three-dimensional soundstaging to make this economically viable? I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

4. For optimum performance, SDAs require an investment in high-quality, high-current, amplification. Again, how many audio consumers are willing to spend the extra money for it?

5. If Polk goes the direct marketing route, then the burden of educating the consumer falls on them. Is Polk willing to provide adequate time and resources for the additional customer service requirements?

[PolkWannabie]

Raife,

I would agree with all your points except #4 ... One would think ( hope ) that those who are willing to drop big bucks for speakers for the most part know that it's pointless to do so and not have them properly powered which also for the most part is going to require a fair amount of dollars to do so.

[DarqueKnight]

Originally posted by PolkWannabie
One would think ( hope ) that those who are willing to drop big bucks for speakers for the most part know that it's pointless to do so and not have them properly powered which also for the most part is going to require a fair amount of dollars to do so.


I think this is true of the knowledgeable audio enthusiast. However, there are some that have the opinion that, if you spend big bucks on the speakers, it will make up for deficiencies elsewhere in the system, particularly if the speakers are "impressive" looking. Polk's ads and product brochures for the SDA series mentioned that they were efficient enough to be run by low-powered receivers. They neglected to mention that optimum results would not be achieved if you did so.

[rskarvan]

I think everyone is missing the point here. Matt is just trying to assess whether or not Polk should do a trial-run of LSi type SDA's marketed to its own already loyal Polk Forum customers. This is enough to get the market stimulated and get the magazines interested in writing about how Polk will go the extra mile to take care of their customers.

This is the exactly the type of thing that stimulates premium brand recognition. Polk's image has suffered in this regard.

It doesn't really matter to Matt whether he sells 50 or 500 SDA speakers. The point is that it will be a good exercise for his staff to introduce a new product based upon customer request & demand. Matt knows that if done right (and, Polk will do it right) that those who purchase these speakers will be rewarded for their loyalty. And, it may just be the stimulus needed to turn Polk into a differentiated premium speaker supplier. Afterall, that is the goal.

My 2 cents.

- Ron

[scottnbnj]

Originally posted by rskarvan
This is enough to get the market stimulated and get the magazines interested in writing about how Polk will go the extra mile to take care of their customers.

this is a deciding factor in why i am back to polk through lsi9's.

of all of the aging speakers i own(polk, mission, boston acoustics and jbl), when i went looking for replacement drivers, i found, here, the best support of vintage products, an interested and accessible customer service(and matt!) and this excellent polk community.

i don't upgrade often or easily,.. that i'm even considering upgrading from my current(barely broken in) mains(lsi9's), which i am very happy with, for just the ~possibility~ of lsi/sda, is surprising to me.

polk knows something about what i look for as a consumer.

)

[scottnbnj]

Originally posted by brettw22
OK, assuming that they were to use the LSi drivers in the SDA revival, I can't imagine that "cost effictive" would be ANYwhere in that equasion.

Think of the price points of the LSi15 and 25.

i have no idea what matt has in mind(other than he said sda/lsi was interesting) but i, humbly, doubt many would be up for sonus faber price with rti/r drivers just to test sda for themselves(i think it's a given that whatever comes of this, the final product will be bought on a good deal of faith and demo's will be lacking). which,.. is why i think lsi is smart, it already compares favorably to *above* its price range.

the compontents have to be comparable to the competition and, as near as possible, verified by 3rd parties. i ~think~ whether sda can fit into the package while keeping other components competitive is the first question to be answered.

)

[scottnbnj]

Originally posted by raife1
5. If Polk goes the direct marketing route, then the burden of educating the consumer falls on them. Is Polk willing to provide adequate time and resources for the additional customer service requirements?

he hee heee,.. i think the front lines are already here.

i mean, already *here*. the forum.

so your question really is, will the forum be ready?

what do you think matt? are the first lines of support, that your new customers will face, up to the task?

)

[scottnbnj]

Originally written by the BIG MAN This would be an interesting question to throw out to the forum. I’d be interested to hear if any good ideas come up.

i want to see someone in a labcoat showing up on cavuto, couric and leno taking a bassomatic(or dropping sda/lsi monsters) onto vast arrays of other unnamed cubelike and conventional speakers.

)

[scottnbnj]

ok,.. just kidding about the bassomatic part.

)

[bbeacham]

If by some chance Polk starts making SDA speakers again they must have better quality than the originals. I have a pair of (idle now) SDA-2 and the side panels on both speakers have fallen off. That occurred 10 years ago when I still used them.

Now when I look at my LSi15s with the solid plastic and wood sides I am reasonably sure I will not come home and find the sides on the floor.

[F1nut]

Ummmm......you can reglue the side panels back onto the speakers, no big deal. I've got two pair of SDA's and personally know many, many folks that own them, no side panels have ever fallen off. I will also personally guarantee that any of the SDA's will and do sound better than anything Polk has made since.

[VR3]

'Solid Plastic'

Definetely a first time phrase there, for me anyways.

[DarqueKnight]

Originally posted by F1nut
I will also personally guarantee that any of the SDA's will and do sound better than anything Polk has made since.

I will go further and personally guarantee that the SDA SRS TL series (SDA SRS 3.1TL, SDA SRS 2.3TL, and SDA SRS 1.2TL) was the absolute pinnacle of Polk's speaker product line.

[BobMcG]

In the poll post under the 2 channel forum heading I touched on the subject of cost or at least my opinion on it. With the original SDA-1's MSRP @ $2,000 in '82 up to the end of the SDA-SRS 1.2tl's run in '90 with a MSRP @ $3,400, I would expect a new, say SDA-SRS 1.3 to be in the $5,500+ range. At least it wouldn't shock me if it was. For a new and improved updated 1.2tl ? I'm in.

[BobMcG]

There are always those flukes with all equipment. With two pairs of SDAs in use sense new that have the cloth wraped side pannels and a freind with another pair I sold him that have been in constant use sense I bought them new in '88 there have been no side pannel failures. And as F1 said, just glue them back on.

[Larry Chanin]

Originally posted by bbeacham
If by some chance Polk starts making SDA speakers again they must have better quality than the originals. I have a pair of (idle now) SDA-2 and the side panels on both speakers have fallen off. That occurred 10 years ago when I still used them.

Hi bbeacham,

To echo the comments of others, I think you are missing the more important point. If your SDA-2s still worked fine despite a minor, easily corrected cosmetic issue, then you are unnecessarily depriving yourself of great sound.

I've had my SDA-1Cs for about 17 years, and yes after 16 years the glue came lose on one panel, so I reglued it. No Biggie. However, more importantly the drivers appear to be as good as the day I bought them. In fact, being inherently lazy, their durability may be a minor problem because otherwise I might have upgraded my tweeters to the highly regarded replacements. :rolleyes:

Larry

[xsmi]

Originally posted by BobMcG
In the poll post under the 2 channel forum heading I touched on the subject of cost or at least my opinion on it. With the original SDA-1's MSRP @ $2,000 in '82 up to the end of the SDA-SRS 1.2tl's run in '90 with a MSRP @ $3,400, I would expect a new, say SDA-SRS 1.3 to be in the $5,500+ range. At least it wouldn't shock me if it was. For a new and improved updated 1.2tl ? I'm in.

So am I. I would have bought the $6800 Legacy Focus in Jan. had my wife not said "You don't have that Polk look on your face. I think this would be a bad purchase." She has saved me more than once. Hey Matt lets do this.

[TroyD]

I've been perusing some of the posts and so forth and just thought that I would chime in a couple more thoughts.

I agree with Bob McG, the R&D would be minimal. SDA is a known quantity. How to apply it to a new speaker, well, those type issues would arise regardless if it was SDA or not.

Second, SDA marketed as the ultimate HT speaker? Why not? Wasn't that the premise of the SRT? Currently, my 2.3tl's are residing in my HT rig and think that they are fabulous for HT. If they wanted to do the on-line/direct approach, I think that would be the direction that they would need to take, again, check out Magnepan, that's what they have done and seem to be doing great guns with it.

Personally, if they wanted to go high-end, no offense, Tweeter ain't the place. I think they would have to go after the true high-end shops where you CAN get a good demo, which I think that Polk has the clout to do. (Sorry, the Tweeters I've been to are just a shade ahead of CC). I think that it is doable but it would probably be out of the price range of most of us, however, the original retail prices of the SRS series would have been for me as well.

BDT

[PolkWannabie]

Originally posted by TroyD
I agree with Bob McG, the R&D would be minimal. SDA is a known quantity. Yes if it's inside a similar cabinet ... But it's been quite awhile since Polk delivered anything in a cabinet wider than about 8". The reason for this is the perception that this is what sells, whether SDA or not and it is I suspect somewhat debatable as to how viable SDA is in a narrow cabinet.

[brettw22]

Too much speculation here about it all........A follow up from Paul is needed IMO.....

[PolkWannabie]

Not entirely speculative ... see the email traffic below from a couple of months ago ...

From: PolkAudio
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:10 PM
To: Rick

Hello Rick,
I'm sure Matt is aware of the SDA enthusiasm, he shares it with everyone else.

From: Rick
To: PolkAudio

That's what I figured as I'm sure that's what led to the development in the first place. Just not enough interest in the rest of the world ? or too expensive to recreate now ? or ?

From: PolkAudio
To: Rick

Hello Rick,
It's difficult to build an SDA type speaker and keep it within the 7" to 8" width that seems popular. An SDA speaker requires two side-by-side drivers and since we tend to use 6.5" drivers the resulting speaker would be at least 13" wide. The current trend, in speakers, is a narrow, slender cabinet. We have to build speakers that are appealing to prospective buyers and that would be difficult to do with an SDA design.

However, we are working on it.

= = =

Personally I don't think they'd scare away many with a 13" width, but you can see the mind set of the marketing folks which in turn is probably driving R&D nuts.

[BobMcG]

You have a point about being able to put SDAs to good use in a HT system. It's practiced and liked by quite a few.

PW,
It's a fact. Slim speakers are popular. They take up less room real-estate and pass the WAF more easily. Non-SDA speakers can be made quite slim. The SDA series are wide due to the SDA design itself. (In order to work properly.)

[brody05]

Hi all,
I thought I would put a mention of some things that I dont need that may be of interest to some of the SDA / SRT people following this forum.
I have two SRT mid drivers - MW5805 and MW5804 (both new spares) and
2 SRT crossover units from the stereo array in the front left and right satelite speakers, they are the entire box that screws into the back of cabinet including binding posts, terminal and all internal cabling and spade plugs for speaker attachment. These crossovers are ? blown and I got new ones, at high volumes the tweeter cut out and the volume had to be turned down to mild - moderate levels before they would cut back in, no idea why, but it was at extreme levels of SPL that caused it to happen in the first place (and one drink too many), part number RE2213-1.
If of interest my contact details are; brody05@xtra.co.nz or PM me or ask questions here for the benefit of others. Cheers.

Also thought I would add a thought on the cabinet situation, being an ex cabinet maker it would not be hard to redesign a different look cabinet or expensive. If there is use of current or past drivers that already have optimal enclosure size dictating its requirements it would be easy to design a cabinet around that, make a cutting list and assemble.

Also in regards to the size thing, the SRT cabinet width is only 12 inches wide (a full 2 1/2 inches wider than my RT2000i rears) so why is that such a problem to some? they are deep but if someone really concerned a false wall could be put in at their level making the standout factor somewhat redundant.

Just my simple opinion and outlook.:rolleyes:

[TroyD]

Bob,

Good to see you lurking about.......agreed, I don't see the issue about marketing SDA as HT friendly. Win/win as far as I can tell. If it works for music, I should think that it would work for HT (though the reverse isn't always true).

Far as the width, eh, I think that's an issue that can be overcome. If you were to use the LSi drivers, they are smaller than the 6.5's. Plus, the folks that are willing to drop the coinage on what something equivalent to the SRS series in terms of performance, I don't think width is going to be the decisive factor. At that price point, IMO, it's about performance. Entry level, different story.

BDT

[TroyD]

I've got a couple of more thoughts....

I would think that Polk would HAVE to have two lines of SDA. I think that it would be necessary to have an entry level line as well as a statement or reference line. My question is, would an entry line harm the existing RT or LSi line and if so, to what extent? That would mean Polk would have, what, five lines of speakers? R/RT/LSi/entry SDA/Ref SDA ? I'd have to question if that is doable. If you went with the reference only line, that, IMO, voids the idea of being able to do it on-line or direct. I also have to question how many current SDA owners, especially SRS owners would, as raife pointed out, be able to toss the ones they have for new ones. I, for one, wouldn't or couldn't for a couple of reasons, coinage being the main one. That said though, if you can get people to hear SDA they will love it. I did and I was as skeptical as they come. In fact, in my years on the forum, I can only recall one or two people who weren't wowed by SDA and one case I'd bet was because he wouldn't admit to being wrong in his initial thoughts about SDA. Hell, I was skeptical.

Eh, too much to think about.


BDT

[jmasterj]

"Polk" Paul DiComo,

Hi Paul, where are we at on the SDA's ? We desperately need you to tell the "big guy" to reach for us. Ok we might be few in number, but thats no reason to leave us out here in the cold.

Thought this issue was dead ? No Way. We will not go quietly into the night...

[fireshoes]

bump

[rskarvan]

ATTN POLK DESIGN MANAGERS:

Duh... when the founder and president of the company makes a suggestion to re-introduce SDA speakers as a direct-market to Polk Forum members....

TRANSLATION:

GET OFF YOUR LAZY, WISHY-WASHY BUTTS AND DO IT ! ! !
(this doesn't mean think about it and guess how the market will react and make excuses for why the President of the company doesn't know the business anymore.... , etc.... it means to DO IT). Matt, if you are listening (and we know you have SDA-tuned ears).... why don't you creatively motivate your design team to take your suggestions seriously. Perhaps a little promotion for the manager that actually reacts to your very-well-thought-out suggestion and executes in a customer-focus'd way is in order.

Jeesh. For a company that is speaker smart.... you guys sure are politically stupid.

- Ron



Now before you read this remember this is thinking out loud going on here so no holding your collective breath...

Paul –
I’ve been following some of the forum threads you mentioned to me. We’re very lucky to have people like this who care enough to tell us what they think, both good and bad. Polk culture has always been like that, a spirited (ahem) exchange of opinions. This type of involvement and dialogue is one of our great strengths. Plus, there’s some really good stuff in those posts.

I’ve also been thinking about the SDA thing and I think you correctly identified the biggest problem in your response to the forum. Since the days of the SDA’s a lot has changed at retail and those changes make it much more difficult to sell a unique product like the SDA’s that depend on a good demonstration. Over the past 15 years retailers seem to have taken one of two paths. Either they have focused on growth by becoming more mainstream or they have become more specialty oriented and focused on custom install. The result is that there are fewer and fewer places to go for a good old fashioned audiophile demo. That leaves us with few options for places to sell something like an SDA product.

However, things might be changing. A lot of retailers are finding out that it’s no fun competing with Walmart and are starting to ask themselves what they can do to start selling the “better stuff” instead of just competing on price. For example, we know that many retailers bring Polk products into their mix because of the product quality and performance. They know that to be successful selling quality they are going to have to get back to some of the tried and true methods of demonstrating and selling superior performance. We’ve also seen some recognition at various retailers that they may have gone too far in the direction of selling commodity type products. So, there is some hope that we’ll start seeing more stores that could sell products, such as an SDA, that need some explanation and a good demonstration.

In the mean time I’ve wondered if there is enough interest out there for a couple of classic SDA products that we would sell direct or on-line. I think someone on the forum suggested using LSi components in a classic SDA format and that’s a pretty interesting idea. There are also some new tricks in SDA that this group might really like.

I’m sure there are a lot of people on the forum who know about SDA and would have no problem buying something like that on-line based on reputation alone but I doubt that would be enough by itself to make the project feasible. The question then is, how do reach enough other people who might be interested but who are not as familiar with SDA or how to convince those who are skeptical? After all, if we’re selling these things direct there won’t be anywhere to go listen to them unless one of your friends has a pair.

This would be an interesting question to throw out to the forum. I’d be interested to hear if any good ideas come up.

["Polk" Paul DiComo]

Ron offers some thought provoking ideas here. Retail is a shifting environment and we have to keep our eyes on how that evolves. Direct sales may be an option be we would not rush into that - there are politics and logistical issues to be worked out, not to mention whether it would work for us. Hmmmm.

[Frank Z]

Outlaw and Rocket both sell direct and seem to be doing very well at it. I would suggest advertising a new SDA on a few select forums. The people that know and love the SDA's of old will certainly pull their wallets out.

Send me a $1.46 and I'll even start telling people about 'em. Hey I may be easy, but I ain't cheap!!;)

[Tour2ma]

$1.46 ain't cheap???

Originally posted by "Polk" Paul DiComo
Ron offers some thought provoking ideas here. And he's tactful to boot... :)

Originally posted by "Polk" Paul DiComo
Direct sales may be an option be we would not rush into that - there are politics and logistical issues to be worked out, not to mention whether it would work for us. Hmmmm. Spot on, Paul. More to it than just adding another virtual aisle in the Polk Store. You've got Tweeter and other business "partners" to consider. Good deal of negotiating to do there.

Design/ cost-wise those of us at RussMan's TxPFII had a good talk with Stu Lumsden. To keep to the acoustic means of inter-aural crosstalk cancelation, the old-school SDA design, you need cabinet width. Maybe Bob C's Sonic Holography designs are now off-patent, but going with an electronic cancelation design would be a departure from Polk's past. And one that I, for one, would not embrace. SH just doesn't measure up to SDA, IMO, especially in the size of the sweet spot.

To get the cabinet right we're talking about alot more than turning an LSi25 sideways and mounting extra MW's for the cancelation. Nothing in the current line that looks like a CRS cabinet candidate to me either. So it's back to the drawing board. And as for PR's... Stu shuddered at the thought of the cost they would add to the existing, ported lines, even at the new production facility that he was so excited about.

Not saying the rebirth of the SDA cannot be done... Not trying to be negative... Just trying to inject a dose of reality to the fervor here. I for one would love to see the return of the SDA's. Not for myself, as I am pretty well set with my SRS's, but for the others that long for them.

[HBombToo]

Originally posted by Tour2ma
Not trying to be negative... Just trying to inject a dose of reality to the fervor here. I for one would love to see the return of the SDA's. Not for myself, as I am pretty well set with my SRS's, but for the others that long for them.

Polk Paul never implied a technical issue from what I read here. I don't give a hoot how wide they are!... but they better work GREAT or I'm pissed. That said, build it and I will BUY.:p

twin

[rskarvan]

QUESTION:
The question then is, how do reach enough other people who might be interested but who are not as familiar with SDA or how to convince those who are skeptical? After all, if we’re selling these things direct there won’t be anywhere to go listen to them unless one of your friends has a pair.

ANSWER:
Ok, ok, ok. This isn't just about buying SDA speakers. We all get that. This is about helping Polk to launch an SDA comeback. Hmmm. I'm thinking that if it became common knowledge that everyone on the forum who orders one of these LSI-SDA's direct from Polk makes a commitment to state honestly and openly on MANY, MANY Audio Forum's (audioreview, e-pinions, etc) their genuine thoughts on the new speaker... that maybe, just maybe, that will generate enough interest to help Polk launch a new SDA line. Ultimately, the speaker will create the demand. There is a natural attraction of an Audiophile to a GREAT SPEAKER. This, along with word-of-mouth, will be enough to gently launch an SDA comeback. Forget the expensive ad's in the stereo mags. Instead, Audiophiles internationally can connect (for free) via their own personal reviews of the new SDA speaker on the internet in an effort to get the word out that Polk has revived something old and made it much better. Hopefully, the speaker magazines will ultimately come to Polk to review the simple fact that something NEW and EXCITING is happening in the SDA world. Maybe if Polk can provide us with a direct-sell SDA speaker, we can (in return) provide Polk with direct word-of-mouth marketing for the new SDA. Eventually, someone from Stereophile (or, whatever) will be informally invited to attend one of our informal Beer-fest Polk gatherings to listen to the new SDA.

This isn't rocket science folks. Its simply supply meeting demand and quality and invention doing their thing. All you have to do is get the nay-sayers out of the way.

If Circuit City demands to sell the speaker.... thats ok, let them. But, don't let that stop Polk from selling it direct or depend on CC to sell it for them exclusively. Never let any retailer get in the way of the customer getting a better product. That simply isn't good business and will definitely piss-off the customer.

Good Nite.

[F1nut]

I'm going to have to quote myself, "The kind of people that would consider buying SDA's are not going to be found in CC, BB or even Tweeter."

I'll add to that by saying SDA speakers should be a notch above, a limited production and aimed at the HIGH end market.

[brody05]

SDAs need to be set up right to get the most out of them, like the SRTs, if not just right they sound like big powerful speakers and quite good really but set up the way they should (and I dont know many that would know how to get the most out of them) they are amazing. I can just imagine someone going along to hear the amazing new SDAs only to come away wondering what all the hype is about. Demos need to be done in a way where Polk experts control them to avoid less than ideal situations, it only takes one or two negative situations and momentum would easily be hindered.

What about turning peoples homes into demo rooms, the ones that are passionate about them, will demo them by apointment and in return have some kind of comission or perhaps wholesale speakers. I for one would be happy to do the above, but I bet many wouldn't, but at least everyone that hears them would hear the way they are meant to sound. I also realise that it is not an ideal situation but something like that where Polk controls and inhibits the 'bad set ups' and subsequent bad reviews..

Why is the size an issue, the SRTs were large in depth but most of that is the subs, the satelites are only 3/4 the deepth of the subs and are only about 12" wide, and to be honest, I like the size of them, they make a bold statement as soon as you see them.

[bbeacham]

Although I still use my SDAs in the living room for music, I have to admit that I like the sound of my LSi15s, and the LSiW, in my TV room much better for both music or home theatre (with LSi7 rears). In addition to sounding better they also look better. Of course beauty, like sound, is subjective.

[keith allen]

I want to pair...heck I'll use my sons college fund if I have to,he'll understand:D

[rskarvan]

Hey Bbeacham,

I like the sound of the LSI's too. That is why if the LSI clarity can be overlapped with the SDA soundstage.... you'd have a clear winner.

- Ron