Component Wiring Q?

[juggla341]

I was wondering if someone could explain to me how i could hook up a set of component speakers to each of my doors (i got 4)
I would like to hook it up like 2 woofers and 1 tweeter for each door. Im sure ill need to buy a amp but if anyone could help me out with any info, especially if someone here did something similiar. Thanks alot.

[neomagus00]

so you've got four sets, that is, four mids and four tweets total?

if so: you'll need a four channel amplifier that puts out the rated powerhandling of the components X 4 channels. for example, polk's mm6 system takes 150 watts/crossover, so you'd need an amp that does 150 watts X 4 channels @ 4 ohms @ ~13 volts (some manufacturers list rated power at 14.4 volts, which isnt quite realistic, but the better manufacturers will underrate their amps, sometimes significantly - for example, my C300.2 is rated at 150Wx2, and it has 180Wx2 in reality).

then, once you have your amp, you hook it up to the car. this involves a power wire, ground wire, remote turn-on lead, rca cables, and speaker wires. all of this can be found in an amplifier wiring kit, like this one (http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOLAK44). if you'd like more amplifier installation details, just ask.

the speakers themselves are wired to the provided crossover. to do this, get appropriate lengths of speaker wire - if the xover is in the back and the speakers are in the front, it's gonna be a lot, so measure it then give yourself a couple feet for slack. the xover will have an input section and two output sections, all appropriately labeled. put the speaker wire in the xover, making sure to match the markings on the wire with the markings on the xover; this way, all the polarities in your setup stay the same. then, run the wire to your speakers through a hole in the door (there's generally a weatherproof tube there already for stock wiring, just use that). repeat this for all four sets of speakers, wiring one xover to each channel of the amp's output.

set the amp appropriately, making sure to use a highpass filter on each channel. for gain setting:

1) turn gains on all amps down
2) pick just one to tune, it doesn't matter. we'll call it the sub amp. disconnect the rest, either power or speakers, doesn't matter. this is so you don't get confused.
3) turn your HU up to 80-90%; mine goes to 35 and i turned it up to 30.
4) pick either a good strong bass beat or (preferably) a bass sine wave, around 50 Hz. rap or hard techno will do too. for a speaker amp, somewhere around 80 Hz is good, or whatever you have it xovered at.
5) play the music/wave and turn the gains up slowly until it begins to distort; with subs this is relatively easy to hear.
6) back it down a tad.
7) repeat with all other amps, without changing the gain on the amps you've already set.
8) from here on in, never turn the gains up beyond where you've set them. if one amp is too loud, like your mids and highs overpower your subs, turn the gain on that amp down to match the rest.
9) equalize/shape if needed; attentuate rather than boost if you can. just remember that if your sub amp is at the gain you set it at (it's maximum gain in your current setup) any bass boost will necessitate you keeping the volume down below where it was during the tuning. for example, if the gain on your sub amp is set at 12 'o clock when your hu is at 30, and you then dial in +3 bass on the HU, you'll be limiting your max hu volume to 27-29. if you want to be safe. if you set the other amps properly, you shouldn't have to do this, and if you've only got the one sub amp, it should be more than enough for stock speakers.
the lower you play your normal speakers, the less power they'll be able to handle. the gain on my amp was at about 4 'o clock when the xover was at 185, and it's at like 11 'o clock now that it's xovered at 75.

you mentioned wanting to use two mids and only 1 tweet per door. that's fine, just don't hook up a tweet to the second xover.

biamping is too expensive here, so nevermind on that.

[juggla341]

no i want to put 2 mids and a tweeter in each dorr so i think that would be 4 sets of 2mids and 2 tweets with one crossover and i also have 2 12s and wondering if a cap will be needed?

[neomagus00]

wow... you want 2 mids and a tweet in each of four doors? okay then, that doubles everything above. do the exact same thing, just twice. that's two amps, one for the front doors and one for the rears.

a cap can't hurt for the sub amp. how much power are you feeding the subs? are you getting headlight dimming?

if you're really in to this, you can get a total of 8 mids and 4 tweets, and get three 4-channel amps at half the rated value of each xover. so, if the mm6 system is rated at 150 watts per channel, you're gonna need three 75Wx4 channel amps. then, two of the amps get mids with bandpass filters, and one gets the tweets with highpasses. but, since most amps don't come with bandpass, this probably isnt much of an option.

[juggla341]

haha i dont want 4 amps in my car isnt there a way to run the 4 tweets off the cd player and get 2 amps for the 8 mids and my amp for the 2 subs, and im sure ill need a cap. Any more input?

[MacLeod]

Not saying youre wrong or anything but 2 mids in 1 door is pointless. Now if you were to go with something like a 6.5 midbass, a 4 midrange and a tweeter in each door that would be more practical. But 8 midranges all playing the same frequencies would sound pretty crappy. It is a cool idea and would look good but thats about it.

However if you want to do it you will need 2 amps. A 4 channel that is capable of playing at 2 ohms. Take the Orion 4004. Its 50x4. You hook it up to 8 mids and its 100x4 or 50x8. Then you get the Orion 2002 which is 50x2 and hook it up to your 4 tweeters. Then youll need a sub amp to go with it. That is about the minimum you can get away with. Its also gonna get expensive and be one hell of a power draw.

[exalted512]

im not sure if the momo crossovers can handle a 2 ohm load
some people do a mid-tweet-mid setup, but only in the front...
i would scratch the idea dude...
-Cody

[juggla341]

i thought that the polk escapes had 2mids and a tweet in each door

[neomagus00]

you could xover the mids differently... one set is midbass, say 65-250 Hz, then the other is 250-3500 Hz.

no, you cant run tweets off the hu

[juggla341]

how would i hook it up if i wanted a mid range, a mid bass and a tweeter, could i use the 2 components or would it be better to do something like a coaxil speaker?

[MacLeod]

If you were wanting to go with a 3 way set up you would need a dedicated midbass speaker that is capable of handling and producing low frequencies. There are quite a few 3 way component systems out ther and something like these (http://jlaudio.com/evolution/XR653CS.html) would work perfectly (oh and Cody, dont look. Its only gonna piss you off :p ).

[juggla341]

ok thats kinda what im looking for something with 3 speakers, now here is a amp question, would that one line from a lets say 4 @80 amp?

[MacLeod]

Im not sure I understood your question. Did you mean, will all three work off one channel of a 4 channel amp? If so then the answer would depend on the amp. If its one that can handle a 2 ohm load easily then yes.

I wouldnt run them off an Alpine V12 for example because even though they can handle 2 ohms their power only goes from like 55 to 70 which aint good and means its struggling.

However an Orion 4004 would handle it all day long. It doubles its power at 2 ohms and will be a better match.

[neomagus00]

what's your budget for this? a setup like the one you're looking at can get real expensive real fast.

[juggla341]

well i figured if i just put a woofer and tweet on each side of my back door then that would run me around 200 to 250, and if i did a 3 component setup like mentioned b4 that would just be around 250 to 300, plus depending on the power most likely a good 4 @ something amp

[neomagus00]

so your total budget is...? :D

[juggla341]

like 650 700

[neomagus00]

ah... that makes things more interesting. it's gonna be tough to get four coaxes and an amp there, but let's try, shall we?

with this amp (http://www.acaraudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_34&products_id=643) for $270 and 2 sets of the MMC525's for $150 apiece here (http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/POLMMC525) , plus a wiring kit from here (http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOLAK84) for a mere 24 dollars, and you're at (minus shipping) about $600.

now i have to ask what size speakers you have, cause if they're bigger than 5.25, the price goes up. maybe a lot.

if you want sq, go without rears and we can provide a much better setup within your price range.

[MacLeod]

Just a thought but for $700 you could have a set of Polk MM6's for $300 and a JL Audio 300/2 for $430. That would be as loud as 4 coaxials at 70x4 and sound about 15 times better provided you installed them properly with vibration damening and a baffle and all. You could also go with a Kicker 450.2 (150x2) for $400 also, but the JL is far superior for $30 more.

[exalted512]

Originally posted by MacLeod
You could also go with a Kicker 450.2 (150x2) for $400 also, but the JL is far superior for $30 more.
or you could get HiFonics and itd be better than both
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by exalted512
or you could get HiFonics and itd be better than both
-Cody

....some would say.....I wouldnt tho.....:D

[exalted512]

yeah but you dont count...
j/k bro:)
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by exalted512
yeah but you dont count...
j/k bro:)
-Cody

Alright now, one of these days youre going to hurt my feelings. Im quite sensitive ya know. :(

[neomagus00]

so you're the "gentle bodybuilder" type then? :p

[MacLeod]

Blasphemy!!! Im no bodybuilder!! Im a powerlifter! I lift for strength! Bodybuilders are wusses and only want to have pretty abs and be on the cover of magazines! :D

Besides, Im way to ugly to be on any magazine and I could never give up my junk food in order to have the 1% bodyfat. Ill take my cheeseburgers, love handles and 425 lb bench (a little tootin' of thine own horn there)! ;)

[exalted512]

same difference...
i can bench like 245...lol
but i can also run the 400 in 52 seconds and run the 40 in 4.6:)
-Cody

[MacLeod]

And therin lies the problem with being big!

Im very strong yet I cant run to the mailbox without passing out.

My job is killing me right now tho, working 60+ hrs a week so Im getting to the gym maybe once a week lately so Im shrinking down to nothing so pretty soon Ill be able to climb the steps to my apt without having to stop halfway up for a breather! :rolleyes:

[neomagus00]

man, i'm at the complete other end of the scale here... i can't do anything that involves anaerobic movement (well, only some things :D), but i do compete in ultra-endurance events. for example, this summer i'll be doing a 24-hour off-road bike race. yeah, yeah, i know, i'm crazy, but that's part of the fun!

except running, i hate running.

rockclimbing, skiing, diving, i'm there... looking at adventure racing too, but ive never tried it (i think that's what it's called... pretty much a race through difficult terrain, where you have to navigate and such)

[exalted512]

i love running, i do it for fun
i also love any type of water sports
especially sailing in the 1 person sail boats(sun fish) and knee boarding...
-Cody

[MacLeod]

I hate running or any aerobics for that matter. Its ok tho cause aerobics are detrimental to strength lifting. Kind of like trying to get 30 miles per gallon out of a 454! I have NEVER taken an ounce of 'roids so I need to fight and scratch for every extra pound I lift so I stay away from the aerobics. So Im destined to always have love handles! ;)

[juggla341]

so ur saying you can put 2 component systems on each love handle and easily fit a amp on your ass, and it would sound great?

[neomagus00]

um... raise your hand if you're confused and a little weirded-out...

::raises hand::

[MacLeod]

Yeah, I was gonna say something tough-guy like, "no but I could break you in half and stick you in a hole" or something but then I wasnt sure if that was supposed to be a swipe at me or just a wierd attempt at a joke that everybody else got but me and I didnt want to appear dim! :D

[exalted512]

Originally posted by MacLeod
I didnt want to appear dim! :D
too late for that...
Originally posted by MacLeod
oh, and jl rules! :p
ok ok...i just couldnt help myself;)
-Cody

[MacLeod]

:D Youre killing me! LOL

[juggla341]

anyway i think i know how to do it, here is just a few questions. I would need a head unit with 3 outputs correct? One for front speaker, rear and subs?. Also i run power through the car and connect to a fuse / distribution block that takes the one power and runs it to my 3 amps? Im sure id have dimming in the headlights with 3 amps, should i get a capacitor and would i hook it up b4 the fuse dist block. Also im a little confused on ohms can someone enlighten me?

[neomagus00]

yep, you got everything right, cept put the cap in front of the sub amp after the distro block, neither of the other two needs it. actually, putting a cap there can help a lot, but for headlight dimming, ive heard that putting small caps on the headlights themselves helps a lot... just an idea.

ohms - a measure of resistance to electrical current. a standard amplifier will put out more power into a lower load (lower ohms), up to a point. you can change the resistance presented to an amp by wiring speakers in different ways (this generally applies only to subs).

[MacLeod]

My interpretation of ohms for guys like me that aint that bright :cool: :

ohms = resistance
more ohms = more resistance
more resistance = less power
less resistance = more power

Very crude I know but my brain works best when I keep things simple.

[neomagus00]

juggy - listen to mac, that's way easier to understand! cept there's limits, but you probably won't hit those if you ask us about wiring.

[MacLeod]

Unless you get into some wild ass, funky custom systems, you probably wont deal with anything other than 2 and 4 ohms anyway.

Probably the trickiest thing I ever did with ohms was to wire two 8 ohm JL 8W0s mono to a 2 channel amp for a 4 ohm mono load.

And if you were to use a single sub with a dual voice coils and wanted to use a mono amp at 4 ohms then youd have to have 2 ohm coils and wire them in series to get the 4 ohm load.

It can get a little tricky at times but its easy to understand after you mull it over a bit. (unless I just totally embarassed myself and that was supposed to be dual 4 ohm VCs :eek: )

[exalted512]

you were right
just dont wire it in parallel...thatll be a 1 ohm load and then youre screwed
actually...for the couple of weeks i had my 450S because thezeb wouldnt take it back, i was running it 0 ohms for a week and a half trying to blow it...needless to say it was a 2 channel amp and not meant to be run below 4...
tough little sucker, i was sad to see it go:(
-Cody

[MacLeod]

I think I told this story before but, a dude I used to work with out in Texas "claimed" to have run an MTX Thunder down to either 2 ohms mono or 1 ohm stereo, I cant remember. Either way it was way lower then it shouldve been. According to him, it performed flawlessly for months and never blew.

[exalted512]

i thought mine died like 15 times but the damn thing just kept going into protection
then id see my voltage drop and look back and the little red light was still on...
-Cody

[neomagus00]

Originally posted by exalted512
i was running it 0 ohms for a week
how'd u manage this? short-circuit? :rolleyes:

[exalted512]

bridging the channels together

[neomagus00]

zero ohms?????

[AustinKP]

Cody, unless you have a short circuit, 0 ohms isn't possible

[MacLeod]

True because it would keep splittin in half and 0 aint half of nuthin'.

4 - 2 - 1 - .5 - .25 -. 125 - so on and so on....

[neomagus00]

cept zero

[exalted512]

i was told putting a single piece of speaker wire and connecting both channels would create a no ohms effect...
-Cody

[exalted512]

i asked on CAF...ill post the responses on here
-Cody

[exalted512]

i was told the ohms would be the resistance of the wire...which is very close to 0
-Cody

[neomagus00]

a single piece of speaker wire connected to both channels?

[exalted512]

right...think about it...subwoofers have an impedance of lets say 4 ohms
thats the load that the subwoofer puts on the amp
so if you have no load on the amp, or a very small one like the resistance of speaker wire(which is probably as close to 0 as you can get...) then it the speaker wire will 'act' like the sub because thats the only thing putting the 'load' on the amp
mind you thats not exactly the most correct way of saying it, but the easiest to understand
-Cody

[AustinKP]

Oh, ok. I thought you were saying that you had your speakers somehow wired to 0 ohms. Just a wire would indeed be very close to 0 ohms. But you're comparing two different things there. The wire is 0 ohms of resistance. Speaker ohms measure impedance. Related, but not the same thing. Just a wire wouldn't present any "load" to the amp...

Then maybe I'm still confused as to what you were saying...

[exalted512]

it presents a load, just an infinitely small one...
and no i didnt have any speakers wired up to it...in fact i had to take out the fuses to my other amps when i was trying to blow that one because it would drop my voltage so much
on a side note, i went to a car audio shop today and a guy there let me demo his truck and he had a digital voltage reading in his dash and it was bumping almost as loud as mine (well...would but im breaking the subs in again) and his voltage was staying at like 15.1---i asked him if he had multiple batteries and he was like nope, i have an ohio alternator in it though...he turned the bass knob up to try to make the voltage do down but it went to 15.2 from 15.1 instead...it was in park at the time...im getting another battery for my current truck and wiring them in parallel...the next truck is going to have an ohio alt. in it...ive planned on this before, but now its settled...im going with ohio
-Cody

[neomagus00]

OH! i get it! i didn't catch the part about you trying to blow up the amp!

ok, now you make much more sense :p

[exalted512]

yeah...thats an important part that you guys missed...i was trying to blow it and there were no speakers connected to it...
thanks for thoroughly reading my posts guys...i feel very special now...:(
j/k
btw, does anyone want to donate to the CNATOTFWSIOLAASAAS fund? (cody needs a new truck on 35s with 6" of lift and a sweet ass audio system)
-Cody