new headunit (yay!)

[neomagus00]

a continuation of another thread about my replacement HU, at a price of ~$550 MSRP.

so, i'm down to three choices: the Eclipse CD8454 (http://www.eclipse-web.com/products/cd/cd8454.htm), the Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4041_64496601_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_P roductDetailComponent), and the Alpine CDA-9835 (http://iweb.alpine-usa.com/pls/admn/item_info?p_item_name=CDA-9835&p_category=10&p_subcategory=20&p_main=10&p_more=y).

I will use this unit for one primary purpose: playing CDs. Maybe I'll keep my Sirius subscription, maybe change to XM, maybe neither. Radio? Don't care. If a unit didn't even have a tuner, it wouldn't matter a bit. SQ? Absolutely vital, and this is why i tend to favor the eclipse; i've heard nothing but good things, and it has some impressive specs to back it up, namely 8 volt preouts and a blue laser. MP3 capability is nice, but again, it doesn't matter. CD changer capability? DVD capability? same again, nice but doesn't affect my decision.

time correction - they all have it, the eclipse and the pioneer are automatic, and the alpine may be
eq - see time correction

MacLeod - why exactly do you favor that Alpine over anything else in that price range? ease of use? features? other? besides the "ugly as homemade sin" bit :p.

Cody - same thing - why exactly do you favor the pioneer over the others?

Anyone else have a dissenting or reinforcing opinion? I need reasons, people, not just brand loyalty!! :D

[exalted512]

actually, if you do a comparison on like crutchfield, in most price ranges, except the price range that the alpine 9827(i think the 9827) is in, pioneer usually offers more features
alpine puts up better numbers in somethings, but the numbers are so high theres a point where it doesnt matter
sort of like THD, it gets to a point to where it doesnt matter
my friend has a truck like mine...well...it was a 97 chevy z-71
but for the antenna and speakers everything is the same
he had an alpine and i was getting better reception with the pioneer in the same areas
a lot of that goes back on Pioneer's super-tuner technology
ive ALWAYS had friends with reliability problems with alpine, but it seems to be only the people i know, most people on the forums have no problems with their units
as far as eclipse, my brother has one...VERY NICE
i like em A LOT
i was either going with an eclipse or pioneer, ended up going with the pioneer though...a lot of was because i liked the screen a lot better
i doubt youll notice a SQ difference in any of these head units, the only thing is the different crossovers and equalizers and stuff
on my pioneer, the possibilites are almost endless with crossover capabilities...the thing has an AUTO EQUALIZER
i shit you not, its come with a mic, you put the mic in the drivers seat and it equalizes it for you
if that is not cool as hell i dont know what is
lol
anyway, thats my 2 cents, with whatever you pick youll be happy, by no means are any of those headunits slackers
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Cant give you any real good reasons.

Back in the day when I first got into car audio, Alpine was the tallest hog at the trough and I always wanted one and just bought my first one (9807) about a year ago.

I also like the way their buttons and stuff are set up and the menus are easy to navigate.

They look awesome!

Features wise, I like them because all but the cheapest models have 4 volt preouts and 3 sets of em.

Really though, when youre in the league your looking at, brand loyalty is the only thing to consider. The Alpine, Pioneer and Eclipse are all excellent units and I would wager you wouldnt be able to find a functional difference. Just decide which one you think would look best in your dash and snag it.

Ive used this analogy before but it works, if you had to choose a sex slave between Britney Spears, Alyssa Milano or Sarah Michelle Gellar, is there really a bad choice? If you said yes then your GAY!

[neomagus00]

bad choice? hell no (excluding the dirtiness factor). best choice? certainly.

for something funny about britney: here (http://www.liquidgeneration.com/poptoons/britneys_breasts.asp)

[unrealii]

Funny you should mention those head units. I am also looking for a head unit and am strongly considering the pioneer and the eclipse you have mentioned. Unfortunatly, I have not been able to listen to either of them side by side.

The guy at a shop did show me that alpine unit. I thought the Media Xpander feature was pretty cool, expecially when he demonstrated it using the radio.

For me, Pioneer has a better screen, xm radio, and I can get it cheaper than the eclipse if I buy it from an unauthorized dealer. However, right now, the eclipse is cheaper if I only consider authorized dealers.

The Eclipse has better outputs than the pioneer, as well as the memory stick reader which I thought was pretty cool. However, there are few add ons for the eclipse and those cost an arm and a leg. Example, cd changers: eclipse 8 disc: $300, pioneer 12 disc $200.

neomagus00, let me know what you decide. I am tempted to go with the eclipse just because I have heard many great things about them and they have the longest warranty (1 year theft, 3 years parts) if installed by an authorized dealer.

[exalted512]

i believe premier comes with a 3 yr warranty, i know its at least 2, i think 3
it doesnt match the theft warranty though, which is very cool, but i havent gotten anything stolen out of my truck(*knock on wood*), i take the face plate off and put it somewhere, obviously not directly under the seat or in the glove box, unless your glove box locks)
and RCA outputs really arent that big of a deal as people make them out to be
in reality, 2 volts is not bad, 8 volt non-clipping is awesome, but can limit your choices of amps, but still, not terribly important, unless of course you plan on splitting it, like i do, then you need the higher voltage, mine are 6.5V RMS and i split the sub amps
all in all, if you dont plan on splitting the RCA cables, then 4 volts is more than excellent
i cant stress enough how many features and options are on my head unit, to this day, i still find new stuff...partly because ive never gone all the way through the manual, hell, i havent even read a quarter of it...i just go out in the truck and play with it
it has time correction, but it doesnt stop there, it has time correction if you want it to the front left seat, both front seats, or all the seats
thats not all, it also has 5 different types of vehicles in the HU that further customizes the time correction
like sedan, van, suv, ect
it has one of the coolest features in the world...
its called 'dome'
most of pioneers head units have it, you HAVE to go somewhere and listen to it...EVERYONE needs to listen to it...even if youre not planning on buying a new HU, on mine, you press audio, spc(specific), then dome
i swear to you, if youve ever been in a concert in a dome, or anything that has an echo, and you have that bands CD, put it in the CD player, you will think you were there!
its so freakin cool
lol
in no way is this a "deciding factor," but its one of my favorite options
it also has hall, theater, and some other options where it sounds like whichever button you push
-Cody

[AustinKP]

Cody, are you sure that a Y connector "splits" the voltage? In a parallel circuit, the voltage remains constant for both branches. It's the current that is split, given the resistance is equal on both sides.

[AustinKP]

To answer the question, there are two main reasons why I went with Alpine instead of Pioneer or Eclipse.

1. MP3 playback. This was big for me, b/c I listen to a lot of MP3's. I didn't play w/ MP3's on the Eclipse HU's, but on the pioneers, there's no kind of searching. You have to wait like 1 second between each track, and then the title comes up. When you have 300 songs on a CD and want to skip 50 ahead to a certain title, that can really take a while on a Pioneer. With the Alpine, just press the search button, and it gives you a list of names that you can search through as fast as you can turn the volume dial. Press the search button again, and you can do the same thing to change folders by name. What's awesome is that you're still listening to the current song while you find the next one, so there's no dead air. This alone was almost worth the $100 increase from the 640? premier to the 9815. You can also search radio stations you've named the same way.

2. Button layout. Aside from the ugliness factor of the Eclipse, I just didn't like the way the buttons were laid out. Pioneer is better, but I just prefer the Alpine's layout. The <- and ->, volume, mute, pause, and search buttons are right there and logically laid out so I don't have to look down from the road to change songs or whatever.

Other random things: The Alpine also does time correction per channel like cody was saying. It's not "automatic" in that you place the mic and it does it, that's awesome. However, Alpine does have the iPersonalize online. You just measure the distances from the headrest to each speaker, put them in the computer, and you can burn a CD with Time Correction, Parametric Equalization, Welcome Message, and Crossover points. Just put in the CD, hit a couple buttons, and it sets itself up. Really nice when the power gets reset by unhooking the battery, etc. You can save different profiles so, for example, when someone else gets in the car, you can pick a more neutral time correction so the soundstage isn't screwed up for the passenger. I really like Media Expander, ESPECIALLY for the radio. It really makes the music come alive.

The last thing that helped me make my decision was that the 9815 and above are supposedly firmware upgradeable. I heard this from a couple people, but don't know for sure if this is true. For example, say MP4 format comes out sometime, you'd be able to download and burn an upgrade to a CD, then update the HU. Again, I've been told this, but haven't confirmed yet. I hope this all made sense. Any questions, just ask.

[exalted512]

Originally posted by AustinKP
Cody, are you sure that a Y connector "splits" the voltage? In a parallel circuit, the voltage remains constant for both branches. It's the current that is split, given the resistance is equal on both sides.
actually, no, im not sure
it might be the current, i really dont know
as far as the search capabilities for MP3s, i dont ever use them, but i think Pioneer has fixed that, dont quote me on that though
-Cody

[neomagus00]

unrealii - the cost of upgrades/addons is a good point; i hadn't considered it before, but i'll make sure to keep that in mind as i choose.
austin - i couldn't find anything about upgrading firmware online, but ill call and ask

okay, i promise this is the last time i list features :D: all have some sort of compressed audio enhancement; all have time alignment, only alpine doesn't have auto-eq and auto-time-align; only pioneer doesn't have online settings or setting savings/profiles on CD-R

Pioneer - XM ready; better radio reception than alpine (cody sez); can be used to control a DVD player; position selector; 13-band eq w/ two user settings; automatic sound levelizer (way cool - cody, do you know exactly how this works?); customizable screen
Alpine - XM ready; possible reliability problems and only 1 year warranty; useless manual; 5-band para-eq, but 6 user settings
Eclipse - fell out of the ugly tree as a kid and hit every branch on the way down; theft warranty for a year; 13 band eq w/ only 1 user setting; position selector; best security, but no removable faceplate (who would steal something that hideous anyways? :p)

unless the alpine's way cooler looking and impossibly easy to use, it's out on the basis of features.... so, i go for a final listening test monday, and then i'll most likely have a new hu in my car and be in the process of reassembling monday nite... things to pay attention to on listening run: signal processing (equalizer, xover); ease of use including mp3; screen coolness


last call for comments! :)

[exalted512]

not really sure how it works or even if the HU you want has it...
i dunno, you put the mic on the head rest and leave it alone for 2 minutes and bam...youre autoequalized, dont forget to listen to the dome option!
lol
-Cody

[neomagus00]

yeah, thats the auto-eq, and this hu's got it... the auto sound levelizer is (im pretty sure) a thing that adjusts output volume based upon ambient noise...

[MTXMAN]

Yeah, i like eclipse myself, one cool thing is last time i talked to a salesman he said that eclipse was making a 60 gig hd for mp3 storage that plugs into their hu's that's pretty decent sized... dunno what cost will be though

[unrealii]

I think the ASL either levels the sound from different sources, so you dont have to adjust the volume when you go to radio to cd, etc or it could level out mp3's because sometimes they are encoded at different volumes, so it could balance that out. Whichever it is, I am not sure.

I am leaning towards the eclipse. I like the fact that the eclipse does not have a detachable face plate because I am going to do a stealth install and put my factory face plate on top. I could not tell a difference in sound when I listened to them a few days ago. I will probably go tomorrow and listen to the head units again but this time with my cd.

[exalted512]

i took like 10 pictures of my head unit and for some reason they all came out blurred...it pisses me off...this is an expensive camera i was using...i probably had a setting wrong or something
but in this pic in the middle is a girl swimming...you can kind of make it out...
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/3/web/531000-531999/531337_30_full.jpg
-Cody

[neomagus00]

no i can't, she's just a picture... :( and i think my gf would be angry if i did that...

unrealii- what do you mean when you say you put your factory face on the eclipse??

[unrealii]

My inspiration: http://maxima.cardomain.com/memberpage/407837/6

oooooh, I see some bootay in that pic;)

[neomagus00]

i'm leaving to get my HU now! i've got a few cd's with all kinds of .wma, .mp3, and regular .cda on them. some listening tests, and i'm gonna get me a new radio! w00t!

i'll let everyone know which one i picked and why when i get back...

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by neomagus00
Alpine - XM ready; possible reliability problems and only 1 year warranty; useless manual; 5-band para-eq, but 6 user settings Reliability problems...never heard of any except from Cody. Alpine has a very high reputation on a lot of forums. Useless manual? I beg to differ. The manual that came with mine was very clear and helpful.
Originally posted by neomagus00
Alpineunless the alpine's way cooler looking and impossibly easy to use, it's out on the basis of features....
Well, as far as the way cooler looking, I guess that's up to you. Impossibly easy to use, I'd have to give that a resounding Yes! :)

[neomagus00]

austin - all moot points, i went with the pioneer over the eclipse hands-down. i spent about three seconds on the pioneer and i had figured out half the functions; i spent five minutes on the eclipse and barely got it to play the track i wanted... in addition, the method of ejecting CD's is awkward, and the controls respond really slowly - that is, you turn the volume knob say five clicks to the right real fast, and it jumps up maybe three steps, and then only after a short delay... not vital, but annoying nonetheless. mp3? again, pioneer won no contest - navigation was easier than sylvia saint. add to that the XM capability, the lower cost of extras (cd changer etc.), the neato screen (ended up mattering more than i thought it would) and the auto-time-align and -eq, and the pioneer was the winner in under twenty minutes.

btw, i didnt get to see the alpine, they sold the last one before i got there, but i think that i'd still have gone with the pioneer - it has higher preout voltage, a more refined eq, a better screen (IMO, from what i saw of it before it was sold), and a better warranty (1 vs. 2 years).

i've barely got the wiring harness spliced in and i've already got a question - when i turn it off, the antenna goes down (it's motorized). when i turn on the tuner, it goes up - fine, this is good. when i switch from tuner to CD - it stays up... this i do not like at all. is this a setting (i'm reading the instruction booklet right now) that i can change, or is it built-in? cause if it's built in, i'm gonna have to put a switch in to be able to break the antenna connection so it goes down when i want it to!

one last thing before i go away (finally! :D)... the manual for that alpine that i downloaded was (to me, at first glance) much more difficult to read than the pioneer's and my (ex-) current kenwood's.

[unrealii]

Congrats on the pioneer. I went ahead and bought the eclipse. Post some pics when you are done.

[fairlynew1]

the antenna will stay up as long as your hu is on, it works off the same lead as your amps, therefore, hu goes on, so does all your amps, and your antenna. i switched my motorized one to a stationary though

[exalted512]

sounds good:)
as far as the antenna thing...i dunno, never had to deal with it before...
-Cody

[fairlynew1]

i would suggest you to also switch to a stationary antenna, it gets better reception

[neomagus00]

well, since radio isn't that big a deal to me (it may become more so now that i no longer have satellite radio, though) i'm gonna keep the motorized antenna, but put a switch in... that is, the RTO lead from the HU is split into an amp lead and an antenna lead, and the antenna lead's gonna have a switch on it.

i think i'll put up a site at sounddomain, and put progress pics there.... and, yes, here it is (http://www.sounddomain.com/id/neomagus00).

[exalted512]

i want a saab...
-Cody

[neomagus00]

you want to drive a saab, you do not want to have to fix it... those four letters seemingly double the price of any parts and labor, no matter where you go... :(

on the plus side, it's a freakin blast to drive... :D

one more pic up (http://www.sounddomain.com/id/neomagus00)

[unrealii]

Hey, you going to wire up those steering wheel controls?

[neomagus00]

nope, i used them when i had the stock HU, but i got used to life w/o them when i had my last one, and i always hit them on accident (or tapping along to music) so they'd be more of an annoyance than a benefit.

that's all for today, no more pics (i just did the other door in the interim). gettin' up bright n' early tomorrow, and workin all day on it. and probably most of tomorrow too (minus the time it'll take to help a friend install his new HU).

[exalted512]

i do most of my mechanic work myself...but im not sure if i would be able to work much on the newer cars...everything is so packed in there its unbelievable...trucks arent that bad...well, GM trucks, dodge and ford's engines are where the firewall should be!
lol
i remember the days when i would work all day long in my truck fixing up the amps...i couldnt do it now...its too damn hot...feel lucky you have a convertible...lol
-Cody

[neomagus00]

oh, I do feel lucky... the question is, do you feel lucky, punk? :D actually, I'm right on lake erie, it's 0930, and it's already 80 degrees w/ like 85% humidity. So i'm installing my amp in what feels like a tropical ocean right now. :(

on the plus side, I'm almost done!

a few more pics (http://www.sounddomain.com/id/neomagus00)

[fairlynew1]

hey cody, i finally got/installed my DEH-960MP, and i cant find a dome option...:(

[neomagus00]

almost... there... all i have to do now is put the panels back on and find some abs plastic to mount my antenna switch in.

one amp pic (http://www.sounddomain.com/id/neomagus00)

yeah, i don't have dome either, and it's not mentioned in his manual at all.

[unrealii]

What is the dome option?

[neomagus00]

cody sez that it makes it sound like you're at a concert in a dome/stadium, and that everyone should try it once ("it won't hurt you if you only do it once...")

yeah, how 'bout it started pouring outside, completely out of nowhere... i mean, one second, slightly cloudy skies, the next, lightning like nobody's business, and then about thirty seconds later (literally) it's coming down in buckets... thankfully, all audio's installed, so i can use the car and not suffer in silence...

[exalted512]

looking good so far neo
as far as the dome option, i went out to my truck and wrote down how to get to it...lol
on my main menu, its says
FUNC AUDIO EEQ TITLE ENT ATT

press AUDIO, then this menu comes up

F/B LOUD SPC EQ 1 EQ 2 ASL

press SPC, then this menu comes up

STUDIO CLUB HALL DOME OCT BBE

press DOME, if you still cant find it and really care that much, call pioneer
they might have gotten rid of it with the new head units...i dunno...that would suck because i listen to it all the time...
all my buddies always ask "i didnt know *insert band here* had a live CD, where did you get it?"
-Cody

[neomagus00]

i'll have to try that, if i can get the damn thing to work...

the car's not even put back together and i have a problem, and it's a biggie: there's no display! i've got it on bare-bones right now: power, ground, ignition, and RTO leads, and preouts to amp. These are my symptoms:

1) most importantly, there's nothing on the screen, no matter what i try

2) my amp doesn't turn on if there's a CD in the player, nor can i switch sources with one in. if i hit the eject button, it folds down and the CD comes out like it's supposed to. then, when i put the face back up, one of two things happens:

a) it acts completely erratically, sometimes responding to the eject button, and never to anything else; it'll open halfway, then stop, too
OR
b) still no display, but the amp turns on and the radio works

I don't understand... it was working perfectly, then i unhooked it to put my console back in, and when i hooked it back up, this happened... any ideas? cody, has anything like this ever happened with yours?

[neomagus00]

okay, i got it - apparently, you're not supposed to use the dimmer wire, cause it blows up your display; so i got it replaced under warranty. now everything's in, i got a hundred bucks (maybe some secondskin??)(completely unrelated), and i'm almost done.

[unrealii]

Damn:eek: Glad you got it replaced. Any more pics?

[neomagus00]

not today, i spent the day doing errands :(... but i'll finish tomorrow, hopefully.

[fairlynew1]

cody, my menu is a bit different, i found the BBE option, but no spc or anything of that sort, so i guess im gonna call pioneer when i get a chance

[neomagus00]

i think that our BBE setting is the same thing, cause in my manual it sez "...reproduce the dynamic sound field as if you are listening to a live performance." under the description for BBE.

[fairlynew1]

my manual i think said something along the lines of it trying to reproduce the sound exactly as it was meant to be.

[neomagus00]

now, that is listed under the BMX function in my manual...

"it says in mine..."
"well, my manual says..."
"yeah, but my manual says..."
:D

[fairlynew1]

i really need to just go over the whole manual, i kinda scanned it, and that was because i couldnt figure out how to get my face plate off the damn dual display, although it looks real good at night, i love it

[exalted512]

Originally posted by neomagus00
i think that our BBE setting is the same thing, cause in my manual it sez "...reproduce the dynamic sound field as if you are listening to a live performance." under the description for BBE.
doubt it, why would mine have both?
lol...i got my manual out
looked under subtitle "Audio Adjustments"
under Audio Adjustments, it says "Using sound field control(SFC...notice SFC, not sPc...my bad), octaver and BBE sound...........................48
maybe that will help...
-Cody

[fairlynew1]

ill look tomorrow, cause im not going out to my car at 11:20 to get my manual, and if i still have no luck, i guess ill call

[neomagus00]

of those 3, only bbe is in either manual...

btw, you can download the manuals off pioneer's site, thats how im looking at yours...

[fairlynew1]

when i hit audio, it give me the crossovers, time alignment, eq, fade/balance, and the auto eq/ta, which btw, is cool as hell...

[neomagus00]

yeah it is, i just did it maybe half an hour ago, and what a difference! i especially like the position selector...

[exalted512]

Originally posted by neomagus00
yeah it is, i just did it maybe half an hour ago, and what a difference! i especially like the position selector...
yeah...you never know the difference is there until you try it...it surprised me a good bit...
-Cody

[fairlynew1]

i did it the other day after work at like 11 at night, i was sitting outside my car think this is great, and less work for me, lol the only thing i noticed that it says my front left speaker, is 63 inches away, which would be longer then i am tall, i dunno, but it sounds great

[neomagus00]

yeah, it says my left speaker is five feet away and my right is nine feet away :D... but when i manually input the correct distances, the auto version still sounds better... so i stick with that...

[unrealii]

unless if the speaker is directed at you, it could be considering the waves bouncing around until they hit your ears... :i dunno:

[neomagus00]

yeah, the directions say that reflections can have a lot to do with it; but, my speakers are pointed pretty damn close to my head, i'll put a pic up of a "driver's-eye-view" in my car.

so i have a driver's-eye-view pic and a not-coiled-rca pic to post tomorrow...

[failynew1]

i should start taking some pics and post them, maybe after i get the carpet for sub box and amp rack, and when i run my new rcas, and hide all my other wires. one problem i ran into when i put my new hu in,i havent been able to get it to sit so i can put the trim ring on...

[neomagus00]

i've just been leaving my HU loose till i get everything done, but that's cause i need to mount a switch there... you'll see what im talking about eventually... :)

[fairlynew1]

right now my car looks like a tornado hit it, besides the dirty works clothes, my jacket that its too hot for now, i have all the trim panels on my rear floor, school books/papers, my back seats down, the tools i used when i took out my old gnx's, which i sold the 2 for $150 :), and some other things, im waiting for another day off work where i have nothing to do