Crunch time!

[AustinKP]

Ok, I'm wiring my car tonight. Is it ok to run my speaker wire next to my RCA's? Or is it better to run them next to my power wire. I don't think I have a third choice. In the case both are bad, would wrapping one or the other in aluminum foil help? If I have enough, I think I'm going both pairs of speaker wire on the same side, then take the one across behind the HU to the other side. Acceptable?
-Austin

[neomagus00]

speaker wire and rca's next to each other is fine; definately not next to power wire. putting all speaker wire on one side is a good idea, too.

[Airplay355]

wrapping wire aroung things, or coiling it can create magnetic fields which you dont want, avoid coiling wire.

[AustinKP]

Man, I'm having a heck of a time getting that 4ga wire through this rubber thing in the firewall. I'm having fun though and I think everything will work out. Any foreseeable problems running this wire next to the power wire for my HU? The alpine's have a separate power wire that runs straight to the battery...

[neomagus00]

nope

[exalted512]

hopefully you wont get interference, wrapping wire in aluminum foil is a no no....think about it, what do some people do to get better TV reception? wrap the antenna in foil...
-Cody

[neomagus00]

airplay makes a good point, avoid coils; if you have way too long of a run (like my rca's) lay it out in strips instead... i'll put a pic on my sounddomain site tomorrow to show you what i mean...

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by exalted512
hopefully you wont get interference, wrapping wire in aluminum foil is a no no....think about it, what do some people do to get better TV reception? wrap the antenna in foil...
-Cody Yeah, but isn't that what shielded cables are? Just regular cables wrapped in foil? I just don't want my speaker wire to interfere with my RCA's...

[exalted512]

i seriously doubt youll have problems
-Cody

[neomagus00]

yeah, speaker wire/rca interference, as long as both are okay cables, is no biggie.

i remember a foil-wrapping debate a while ago... how did that end up? cause both of you are right, i think, but that doesn't make sense...

[TrappedUnder Ice]

Unless your using god Awefull rca's and speaker wire...running along side power wire should not induce noise....this was more common in the old days {hence..i'm not young :)}
Most time you pick up noise running your rca's/speaker wire near the cars electronics or a bad ground! Granted.>>>I still seperate my wires..for the most part.... power down the side... others up the center...

just a little common sense ...btw foil will help in shielding emf... but its really not needed

[AustinKP]

Ok, my biggest concern was because of time correction, the signal going through the speaker wire and the signal through the RCA's would be different and I didn't know if that would cause interference. I guess I won't worry about it. Thanks for all the input guys. :)

[huggies]

The foil idea would only help things if you grounded the ends. The shielding on a wire isn't so much there to block interference, per se, but is there to intercept any interfering signals and short them to ground so that your conductor wire doesn't pick up any of these signals, which would mess up your original signal . Hope that reads correctly...

[Steve@3dai]

Originally posted by AustinKP
Ok, my biggest concern was because of time correction, the signal going through the speaker wire and the signal through the RCA's would be different and I didn't know if that would cause interference. I guess I won't worry about it. Thanks for all the input guys. :)

The only case where you are going to get time correction problems is if you have like a crapload of extra cable. Like 100s of feet I would think. I don't think the brain can deduce a few milliseconds ;)

40+ milliseconds, maybe, maybe. But to get 40+ milliseconds, you gotta have a crapload of wire ;)

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by huggies
The foil idea would only help things if you grounded the ends. The shielding on a wire isn't so much there to block interference, per se, but is there to intercept any interfering signals and short them to ground so that your conductor wire doesn't pick up any of these signals, which would mess up your original signal . Hope that reads correctly... That makes a ton of sense, thanks.

Originally posted by Steve@3dai
I don't think the brain can deduce a few milliseconds Maybe the brain can't, but your ears sure can. That's what time correction does. Adjusting one speaker by a couple tenths of a millisecond audibly moves the sound stage around the car.

[neomagus00]

yeah, those milliseconds count; for example, changing the delay for surrounds in my HT system by 5 ms makes a drastic difference (well, it would if i had them all hooked up still :))... i think it's called the "Haas precedence effect". i think.

[MacLeod]

Ive thought about this before too. I have all my speaker wire running down the same side of my truck which means the drivers side speaker has about 6 feet extra wire to it. I was worried about time delay which would shift my soundstage way to the right. But Im kind of an astronomy buff and remembered something. The signal is travelling thru the wires at the speed of light...186,000 per second. At that rate, the delay for 6 feet would be less than a nano-second (billionth of a second [aint I smart]).

Ive not proven this with any laboratory tests but I think its a good bet.

[neomagus00]

6 nanoseconds i think... but damn, that's fast :p... yeah, i vote that wire lengths don't matter, not for time; but for phase, that's an entirely different matter - if you have a 1kHz tone going through an extra 6 feet of wire, it's sure not gonna match up with the other channel, right?

well, excuse my misuse of time and phase cause here they're the same thing...

[MacLeod]

I dont know. My amps mount under the back seat in the center so I will eventually re-wire my rig with 4 gauge once I get bigger amps and when I do I will probably do it like Cody and run the left speaker down the left side and right down the right side and route power cable down the middle. Damn ingenius actually!

Good thing youre going to A & M bro, youre too sharp for UT!! :p

[exalted512]

who would want to go to UT anyway?
scrubs...
lol
-Cody

[MacLeod]

I told this joke months ago and NOBODY got it but Im gonna try again since you may now.

{ahem}
Do you know what they do with students that flunk out of A & M? They cut off their 2 middle fingers and send them to Austin (UT)!!

{crickets chirping}..................{tumble weed blows by}........

Hey, is this thing on?

[neomagus00]

i sure dont get it, maybe its a texas thing...

back to wiring, who's the best of the best? scosche, streetwires, stinger, etc.?

[exalted512]

i got it the last time you said it...the reason ppl didnt get it was probably b/c no one knows UT 'sign'
SAW 'EM OFF!
-Cody

[exalted512]

wiring is wiring
whatevers cheap and has a decent strand count
ie www.knukonceptz.com
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Im kind of partial to Tsunami and Streetwires myself. Im sure there all fine products but Ill stick with these two til they let me down.

[neomagus00]

i forgot to mention - more specifically, rca's... yeah, speaker wire and power wire is just wire, but the rcas are where a lot of noise is picked up, and i'm really really really sensitive to noise; it pisses me off like no other, and i have a desperate need to get rid of it at nearly any cost, so i was looking at stinger's expert series rca's... is there anything better out there?

[exalted512]

SW 3.0s are 6.0s, anything else is overkill
-Cody

[AustinKP]

Well, I finally finished hooking up my amp myself at 4:00 am. I'm so tired, I just turned it on to make sure it works with the gain all the way down. Already, it's louder than running them off my HU. I used the standard KK patch cables and NO noise. I was very impressed that I got it to work on my very first try! More later once I've gotten to play around with it a bit....

[MacLeod]

Yeah, youre running about 200 rms per channel so its gonna be quite a big difference from 9 rms! LOL ;)

[exalted512]

RCAs dont really matter that much, i buy good ones because they last longer and theres a lot less chance of getting noise in them
so i spend the extra money so i dont have to do extra work...lol
-Cody

[MacLeod]

I think that when it comes to RCA's its best to get the most expensive set you can afford. Since RCAs are the most suceptable (spelling?) to noise, youll want the best protection you can get.

Im using Monster Cable home RCAs right now and they are ok but I will eventually snag me a high end set of either Streetwires or Tsunami.

[exalted512]

umm...if they work...then why get new ones?
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Because Im the type of guy that if I dont have the best stuff, or at least real close to it, then Im gonna bug myself to death thinking Im missing something.

Having Monster Standard Home cables is bugging the hell out of me and it wont stop til I get a set of Streetwires ZN3 or something in that range.

Kind of like how Im sure Im missing out on a lot by having my little Alpine amp and not having components. Honestly, as a budget system goes, I think mine sounds pretty damn good BUT I still cant wait to get some MM6's and something along the lines of an MTX Thunder502 and lettin' 'er rip! :D

[exalted512]

lol...im the EXACT same way...thats why next time around im going with brahma's, some type of 3 ways, and USAmps...
and also why i spent $100 on SW 5.0s for one set...lol
i have some mid-line RF RCAs going to the rears and a high end RF going to the comps up front
its also why i have Dell's TOTL computer and a lot of other stuff...lol
as far as mm6s go...you can get em for $180 new in box off of ebay with a 1 yr warranty...
-Cody

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by exalted512
as far as mm6s go...you can get em for $180 new in box off of ebay with a 1 yr warranty...
-Cody OR, if you're really lucky (like me) you can get the MM6's w/ a pair of db650's for $200 with free shipping! :D

[neomagus00]

i like that deal :)

hmm.... on rca's, i just managed to spend $110 on a stinger expert set, and anyone who says they dont matter should be shot... i used to have mid-level rca's and a very small amount of noise (when i put on a single female voice, no instruments, and turned it way up, there was some hiss)... NOW, i have absolutely none; it's ridiculous how big a difference it made (at least for me!)

[MacLeod]

Ya get what ya pay for! This is especially true for electronics it seems.

[exalted512]

Originally posted by MacLeod
Ya get what ya pay for! This is especially true for electronics it seems.
minus JL
ok ok...sorry...couldnt help myself...:D
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Very funny

:D
......................JL Rules!