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disneyjoe7
06-12-2004, 10:09 PM
With engine oil of such a low weight, should I consider a synthetic?

amulford
06-12-2004, 10:12 PM
only if it was installed at the factory...

disneyjoe7
06-12-2004, 10:27 PM
Well I should be clearer 2003 acura TL 3.2 S, used new to me.


Installed by factory?

amulford
06-12-2004, 10:43 PM
Synthetics, true synthetics shouldn't be mixed. I can't honestly tell you why, but my Mercedes mechanic told me it's not a real good idea.

If you could flush the engine entirely, I'd say go for it. At the factory for the first oil fill, or with a complete rebuild, you start with nothing. It is expensive stuff.

What is with the 5W-20, Manufact. recomendations?

gatemplin
06-12-2004, 10:46 PM
I was an apprentice mechanic for Acura and we always used 5w20 synthetic blend on the 2003 type S models. A full synthetic would be better if you plan on keeping the car a long time, otherwise a blend should be fine. I fine that newer engines run smoother on full synthetic. The type S is a bargain, plenty of power, quiet, does everything well.

I used to work for Mercedes too. I have heard people say you shouldn't mix oils, others say you can. From my experience I have never a problem with it.

racer4551
06-12-2004, 10:50 PM
Being an ase certified master tech,i can tell you that i have used lower weight oils in alot of the cars we service on a regular basis and have not had or seen any problems caused by the weight ratings on the oil.The problems are caused by lack of maintinence.We have very few customers that actually use the synthetic oil.In my opinion its not worth the extra costs unless you run the car very hard or in very hot weather conditions.Also if you do use it you should continue to use it,not switch back and forth,which is the rule for any oil you use.So to sum it all up it doesnt hurt to use the lower wight oil as long as you change it on a regular basis.Also if you live in a cold climate like i do we recommend the 5w-20 for winter driving and 10w-30 for summer driving.The lower number designates the weight of the oil when cold,so with the 5w rating it would flow alot easier when cold,which is also where alot of engine damage occurrs,during the cold start.But with warmer weather you dont have as many problems with cold oil and need the higher ratings because the oil breaks down quicker.Also factory's very rarely install synthetic oil,only on high end cars.

exalted512
06-12-2004, 10:50 PM
i always buy full synthetics
either castrol syntec or amzoil(sp?)
why skimp out on oil?
you change it twice a year and the difference is only a few dollars...
-Cody

disneyjoe7
06-12-2004, 10:55 PM
Ok, so what I considering is Amsoil 5-20w for oil changes. I've built engines for fun in the past would NEVER stand hard on an engine without 20-50w or at least an 10-40w oil. So this manual statement of 5-20w oil makes me a little nervous.


Edited YES IT HOT IN FLORIDA 5-20w too little, stand on this 3.2 260hp engine and you think you're doing some harm.

racer4551
06-12-2004, 11:03 PM
Also you should never use synthetic oil in a new motor until its broken in.The synthetic properties of the oil prevent the rings from seating or bedding with the cylinder walls.The factories recomend lower weight oils because they have a better flow capabilities(faster)and less wear and tear on the bearings and lubricated parts during start up and until the oil pump actually gets a prime.

gatemplin
06-12-2004, 11:07 PM
Earlier Type S models (possibly some 2K3's) did call for 10W30 so I dont think you will have any problem if you go with a heavier oil considering the climate. As racer said most damage is caused by lack of maintenance, and he has forgotten more than I know about cars.

racer4551
06-12-2004, 11:09 PM
In your case it doesnt matter really which oil you use but with whatever oil you use you should change it on a regular basis,every three thousand miles for regular oil and synthetic blends and every 5 thousand miles for a full synthetic blend.Also with a newer car engine the main and rod bearing clearences are not made for heavy weight oils.

disneyjoe7
06-12-2004, 11:14 PM
Really I thought it was for fuel economy and or emissions.

I always thought car manufactures wanted the engine to die an early death so lower weight oil is just fine with them. My 92 Honda accord says 5-30w preferred or 10-30w I never used anything other then a 10-40w. I have 186k miles on it.









Originally posted by racer4551
The factories recomend lower weight oils because they have a better flow capabilities(faster)and less wear and tear on the bearings and lubricated parts during start up and until the oil pump actually gets a prime.

gatemplin
06-12-2004, 11:25 PM
I get that feeling too, on the new TLs they only change the oil filters every other oil change :eek: Also all the newer Acuras just got smaller oil filters. They switched about 6 months ago to a filter about half the size.

racer4551
06-12-2004, 11:28 PM
Yeah you are right about the fuel economy part because with higher weight oils the engines oil pump actually has to work harder to move the thicker oil.I have learned this through race car motors where the guys that want to go really quick to break a track record or class index,use 5w-20w oil and lower the level a couple of quarts to gain horsepower.We also like to use heavier oil in race motors because the bearing surfaces of the main and rod bearings are given extra clearence for more oil or thicker oil to provide the cushion between the bearing and the crank.But with stock engines this clearence isnt there and heavier oils have a hard time pushing into those small clearences.But with higher mileage engines the bearings get worn a little and you need a litttle thicker oil to fill the clearence.

racer4551
06-12-2004, 11:31 PM
When i talk of heavier oils i mean oils like 20-50 and straight weight oils like 30 weight and higher.

racer4551
06-12-2004, 11:34 PM
Hear's someting to think about,how do they actually get two different weight oils in the same bottle?ie 10-30,10-40

disneyjoe7
06-12-2004, 11:37 PM
Never thought about the HP required by to oil pump to pump 20-50w or something like that. The lowering of the level is for the crank to not whip up the oil, causing HP lost.








Originally posted by racer4551
Yeah you are right about the fuel economy part because with higher weight oils the engines oil pump actually has to work harder to move the thicker oil.I have learned this through race car motors where the guys that want to go really quick to break a track record or class index,use 5w-20w oil and lower the level a couple of quarts to gain horsepower.We also like to use heavier oil in race motors because the bearing surfaces of the main and rod bearings are given extra clearence for more oil or thicker oil to provide the cushion between the bearing and the crank.But with stock engines this clearence isnt there and heavier oils have a hard time pushing into those small clearences.But with higher mileage engines the bearings get worn a little and you need a litttle thicker oil to fill the clearence.

gatemplin
06-12-2004, 11:38 PM
What do you mean? Are some oils labelled both "10W30" and "10W40" in the same bottle?

jcaut
06-12-2004, 11:38 PM
If you're REALLY into motor oil, I have a site for you:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

I like synthetics and use them in all my cars (including new ones), but I'm a fanatic.

Most of the 5W-20 oils seem to be good quality. Looks like most manufacturers have beefed-up the additive package to help compensate for the lower viscosity. Obviously the real motivation behind the recommendation for 5W-20 is fuel economy. Pumpability, sure, but that's not really been a problem from a wear point of view, with the 5W-30's.

If I remember right, the Honda 5W-20 is supposed to be made to their specs by Exxon/Mobil. Chevron, Pennzoil, and Motorcraft 5W-20's all have shown excellent used oil analysis reports in the Honda and Ford vehicles that recommend that weight. My personal pick would be Chevron, if you want to stay with a non-synthetic. The advantage of the synthetics would mostly be in the form of extended drain intervals.

racer4551
06-12-2004, 11:46 PM
Also anything made by mobil is great suff also.Also fuel economy is the direct effect from lower weight oils in that the engine doesnt have work as hard to move the thicker oils and thus is more fuel efficient from the reduced engine drag on not having the thicker oil trying to take up those clearences.

exalted512
06-12-2004, 11:46 PM
double post

exalted512
06-12-2004, 11:47 PM
racer...is it ok to switch b/t amsoil and syntec?
and what do you think of amsoil saying you only have to change it every 10k miles?
personally, i will never trust any oil to go past 3k...
what kind of oil filters do you use in your daily driver?
ive always heard ac delco were really great...that and mobil 1
-Cody

racer4551
06-13-2004, 12:00 AM
Exalted512,its usually not good to mix different synthetic or booster oil additives,just stick to one or the other.As far as any synthetic motor oils i would not recommend going more than 5 thousand miles on oil changes.Oil filters are all pretty much equal anymore as far as the brand goes,it really only starts to matter when you are using the filters in a race motor.I like fram or hastings filters,but really it doesnt matter as far as the brand goes.Just for your info,we used ac oil filters in my race car once and using 20-50 oil when the motor was cold started the filter would plug and would not pass the thicker oil through and resulted in o oil pressure,changed to fram and never had another problem.

exalted512
06-13-2004, 12:19 AM
ive always heard bad things about Fram
i dont really mix it...just sometimes when i change my oil i use ams, sometimes syntec...is that still bad?
ive been doing it for a while and the truck has 182k on it...so it must not be terrible...
-Cody

jcaut
06-13-2004, 12:26 AM
I think with a good synthetic, 10K OCI is entirely possible. However, I wouldn't do it without having the oil analyzed periodically just to keep an eye on what's going on. Personally I don't like Syntec, unless you can get the green, German variety. It's made from Group 3+ basestocks, which, in the minds of most "oil-gurus", are not "real" synthetics. I like Mobil 1 personally, though you'll find others who feel strongly the other way. Used oil analysis is really the key to finding out what kind of job your oil and filtration, is doing. Testing the virgin oil will tell you most everything about its additive package.

As far as oil filters, I disagree that they're all the same. It's kind of like a lot of other things--- there's a lot more brand names than there are manufacturers. Nothing wrong with AC. Their filters are made by either Delphi or Champion Labs. For an inexpensive filter, they're good. Also good are WIX, and any of several brands made by Champion labs (including the Supertech filters at Wal-Mart---- can't believe I'd put a Wal-Mart brand filter on my car :eek:, but I will). I don't use Fram. Used to use them. I've cut them open.... Don't use them anymore.

Free flow of oil through the filter may have more of an impact on wear than the removal of fine particles.

Jason

racer4551
06-13-2004, 12:49 AM
I think the most important thing is to change the oil on a regular basis and keep the engine in tune and all will be well.

disneyjoe7
06-14-2004, 08:20 PM
Well after some reading on the other OIL forum....

Honda / Acura is saying 5-20w in USA with other countries using something heavier. So is Honda under pressure to say something less like 5-20w for EPA and or MPG guidelines?


I even looked at my 92 accord owners book with says 5-30w I considered this thin and never had anything under 10-40w, been using that weight since new. So with this and my 90 plus temps I think 10-40w would work just fine.

Yes I do think that 4 year / 50k mile warranty would hold up, but if you like to keep your cars longer I worry about that 5-20w stuff. What’s next 3 n 1 oil?

shack
06-14-2004, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by disneyjoe7
Well after some reading on the other OIL forum....

Honda / Acura is saying 5-20w in USA with other countries using something heavier. So is Honda under pressure to say something less like 5-20w for EPA and or MPG guidelines?
It's all about CAFE. The lighter weight oil gives higher (even if only slightly) MPG and when you are dealing with a complete Mfg. lineup even a fraction is a big deal.

dorokusai
06-14-2004, 09:26 PM
I prefer Wesson brand over all others.

disneyjoe7
06-14-2004, 09:33 PM
I agree, but I think this is not giving the end consumer any benefit.





Originally posted by shack
It's all about CAFE. The lighter weight oil gives higher (even if only slightly) MPG and when you are dealing with a complete Mfg. lineup even a fraction is a big deal.

shack
06-15-2004, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by disneyjoe7
I agree, but I think this is not giving the end consumer any benefit.
This has NOTHING to do with the end consumer....it is only about meeting government regulations.

jcaut
06-15-2004, 12:22 AM
Honda is having NO problem with CAFE, though, unlike Ford....

I don't know though... On a tight-clearance motor, almost new, I wouldn't get too carried away with higher vis. oils. Considering your location I doubt that you'd hurt anything with 10W-30. I'm confident you won't hurt anything with the 5W-20 though, either.

If you're really concerned about it and plan to keep the car a long time, why not use something like Mobil 1 in 10W-30? It's what's in all my cars year-round, and we range from about 20-105 degrees.

Jason

vaderviper
10-18-2009, 01:23 AM
Ok, so what I considering is Amsoil 5-20w for oil changes. I've built engines for fun in the past would NEVER stand hard on an engine without 20-50w or at least an 10-40w oil. So this manual statement of 5-20w oil makes me a little nervous.


Edited YES IT HOT IN FLORIDA 5-20w too little, stand on this 3.2 260hp engine and you think you're doing some harm.

As an automotive expert, I can tell you the best oil to use in a Honda/Acura etc. is either 0-20W or 0-30W by Amsoil. It FAR exceeds all their oil requirements. A little more costly than other synthetics, but well worth the price.
And I DO NOT have any vested interest in Amsoil!

F1nut
10-18-2009, 01:43 AM
5 years later.....