Ed's PB2-Ultra review is up on HTF [Archive]

dave shepard

06-14-2004, 12:03 AM

I sure don't know where he finds the time. Reading that I think I have to start saving my money if there is a big diff, between the 2+ and the ultra that can justify the cost. Cant wait for his review on the B4 when he gets one of those :D hell maybe the B4 will get the ultra drivers to give it that much more, now that would make even the most bass hardened listener feel satisfied. Reading things like that just gets my gears moving.

Dave

pjdami

06-14-2004, 12:13 AM

Damn. Doc even brought the sub outside on a pallet to do ground plane testing. That is one heck of a long interconnect / power wire. I thought to myself "he can't be serious" when he told me once to try that out. I guess he was serious afterall.

Kudos Doc. You have outdone your last review again.... as hard as that is to imagine.

Dr. Spec

06-14-2004, 11:00 AM

Thanks, guys. That was a fun project. Yeah, it took forever, but you pick away at it and it's not too bad.

Ground plane is better for really powerful subwoofers like the PB2-Ultra. Inside, they rattle the entire house and create false positives on the distortion spectra display.

And it's hard to get a decent nearfield FR curve because the box is so big and the drivers and vents are too far apart to get decent summing at 1 meter.

2 meters GP is the gold standard. I just wish I had better weather so I could GP all year round.

jdhdiggs

06-14-2004, 11:13 AM

Now, how did the 7's blend for two channel? Was that in your review and I spaced it?

dorokusai

06-14-2004, 12:12 PM

Excellent review, as usual. I wouldn't expect anything less from Dr. SVS...I mean Spec ;)

Dr. Spec

06-14-2004, 02:19 PM

Just an FYI for all interested party's, oh, and Sid, he stacked the LSi's on the RT800i's...

Ha! No where else to put them for the present. They are a bit high for optimum, but still sound really good.

Now, how did the 7's blend for two channel? Was that in your review and I spaced it?

The 7's have remarkably good bass response into the 60's, which is perfect for an 80 Hz xo to a sub.

I didn't discuss the 7's per se in the review. I did discuss how difficult it can be to get a smooth transition from the speakers to the sub.

You can see how ragged the transition bandwidth was before I optimized the phase, low pass, and PEQ on the SVS. Worked out really well actually.

The only thing I did differently so far with the 7's is disable the low pass on the SVS. I haven't spent a ton of time looking at the crossover between the 7's and the SVS yet.

jdhdiggs

06-14-2004, 02:54 PM

My 7's are atop my 800's as well... I didn't think the 7's would have much of an issue blending, but just wanted to be sure...

Dr. Spec

06-14-2004, 03:58 PM

Not only do they blend well with the SVS, they also blend well (surprisingly) with the CS400i across the front stage.

I thought the timbre match would have been poor, but it's not.

faster100

06-14-2004, 03:59 PM

when i tried my 7's on top of the 70's unhooked of course, i calibrated them and it seemed by time the 7's were loud enough the svs was way to loud, maybe i did something wrong...

Dr. Spec

06-14-2004, 05:16 PM

i calibated them

I found the LSi7's to be about 2.5 dB lower in sensitivity than the 800's.

I saved my old settings for the 800, so I can switch back and forth as needed. Right now, I'm leaving the 7's running for both music and HT applications.

faster100

06-14-2004, 05:19 PM

Ah never took that into consideration, so 2.5 clicks up on the 3803 from what the 70's were set at?

jdhdiggs

06-14-2004, 05:31 PM

Other way Faster... Turn the sub down 2.5 clicks...

Dr. Spec

06-14-2004, 05:44 PM

I recommend recalibrating the entire system when new speaks are added.

Dropping the sub level will work for 2 channel, but not for HT, where the other speakers would then be louder than the less efficient 7's.

It's a good thing to check system calibratrion occasionally, anyway.

faster100

06-14-2004, 05:49 PM

Thanks for the correction, so what about for HT? are you useing the 7's in HT for now? and if so how do you get them to sound equal to the other speakers... and sub

jdhdiggs

06-14-2004, 07:11 PM

You can calibrate each speaker seperately and once set, they should stay set. Some pre's/reciever's will have different settings for multichannel and stereo modes, some don't. But once you have all the speakers calibrated, you should be set for all volumes and formats. This worked when I was using mismatched speakers and also works for the matched pair. You pretty much have to start all your calibrations over again.

scottvamp

06-14-2004, 07:50 PM

Dam - got me looking at the PB2+ again. May be putting the PSW1200 on Ebay this week. :D

Dr. Spec

06-14-2004, 07:57 PM

Dam - got me looking at the PB2+ again. May be putting the PSW1200 on Ebay this week.

Take a close look at the power compression curves for the PB2-Ultra in the 25 Hz tune. 115-120 dB at 2 meters OUTSIDE?!!

In a typical room, the PB2-Ultra in the 25 Hz tune will not begin to compress until close to 125-130 dB peaks in the 25-30 Hz region. I've hit over 120 dB - at the seat - on Underworld.

dave shepard

06-14-2004, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
Take a close look at the power compression curves for the PB2-Ultra in the 25 Hz tune. 115-120 dB at 2 meters OUTSIDE?!!

In a typical room, the PB2-Ultra in the 25 Hz tune will not begin to compress until close to 125-130 dB peaks in the 25-30 Hz region. I've hit over 120 dB - at the seat - on Underworld.

What would the differance be using the 2+? The 2+ shakes my house now as I'm sure it did yours does the Ultra shake it much noticably more at the same volume and settings?

Dave

scottvamp

06-14-2004, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
Take a close look at the power compression curves for the PB2-Ultra in the 25 Hz tune. 115-120 dB at 2 meters OUTSIDE?!!
In a typical room, the PB2-Ultra in the 25 Hz tune will not begin to compress until close to 125-130 dB peaks in the 25-30 Hz region. I've hit over 120 dB - at the seat - on Underworld.
The Ultra doubles in price - i'm trying to justify the +. ;)

Dr. Spec

06-15-2004, 05:38 PM

The PB2+ is right behind the Ultra - subtract about 2 dB across the board. The PB2+ is a better performance value, no doubt.

faster100

06-15-2004, 07:16 PM

I think the difference at that level is quality of parts moreso then better performance per se'

you get a better cabinet, better drivers, bit bigger amp...
but the same overall setup,

I say the pb2-isd and + are a great value/performance buy

when you get into it like Ed, its the natural step up to get the Ultra and go all out... he will most likely never 'Need" another sub, But want is a different story... like when i went from pb1 to pb2, I really just wanted the pb2 Bad :)

scottvamp

06-15-2004, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
The PB2+ is right behind the Ultra - subtract about 2 dB across the board. The PB2+ is a better performance value, no doubt.
NICE!!!!!:D
That Maple finish is awesome. I will enjoy the black - my home style is much more comtemperory.
Doc - what did you do with the other SVS? It was a PB2+ right?

faster100

06-15-2004, 08:46 PM

Not to answer for him, but he sold it... I think to a member here :)

Dr. Spec

06-15-2004, 09:09 PM

Sold it locally, actually. It's pounding away in a Klipsch Reference 7 system and sounds fabulous.

gatemplin

06-15-2004, 09:26 PM

Just read the review doc and really enjoyed it, worth the wait. I have learned so much from your posts and reviews.

Dr. Spec

06-15-2004, 10:08 PM

Thanks! Hey we got your EBS working right....that was worth sumpin' right?

gatemplin

06-15-2004, 10:30 PM

Yep, it is working great now. Back then it was a under achieving 150L with an 8" port. With your help I decided to build the EBS. Since then I rebuilt it for fun with more attention to details and some slight modifications. I think I will post a FR curve if anyone else is interested in what you can do with a DIY sub.

Strong Bad

06-20-2004, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Dr. Spec
Not only do they blend well with the SVS, they also blend well (surprisingly) with the CS400i across the front stage.

I thought the timbre match would have been poor, but it's not.

Doc:

Hell of a review! I enjoyed it tremendously! The guys at SVS should put you on the payroll!

It's great to hear how well the 7's blend with the SVS and the CS400. I picked up a pair of 7's recently (the Fry's deal) and plan on using them as the main L&R in my surround setup. This will eventually promote my SRS 2.3's to a 2 channel stereo setup.

Again, great review!

John

Dr. Spec

06-21-2004, 08:22 AM

Thanks, John! As long as you calibrate the 7's, I think you'll find the timbre match to be more than acceptable for HT applications.

BTW, glad to see you posting more, lately. :cool:

kingtut

06-23-2004, 03:43 PM

Dr. Spec

06-23-2004, 04:37 PM

This is a separate issue, but I read on HTF that Dr. Hsu was going to send Ed/Dr Spec another STF2 for re-testing. Did Dr. Hsu follow through w/sending Ed the STF2? If Dr. Hsu sent the STF2 to Ed, has Ed get a chance to re-test the STF2?

Actually, I just emailed him this week about it. He wanted to test it before sending it to me. He hasn't had time to test it, so he didn't send it yet.

He didn't want to delay any longer, so he's sending me an untested unit. I will test it exactly how he specifies, and we'll compare notes.

He prefers to test at 1 meter ground plane with the mic facing the port(s). I prefer to test at 2 meters GP with the mic facing the side of the sub. I'll test it both ways and send him all the data.

I'll keep the STF-2 until he compares my data set against another STF-2 at his place; no sense sending it back unless we concur that my unit is representative.

I'll run the little bugger through the usual gamut of music and HT, in addition to testing it. I'll probably run some indoor FR measurements at the seat, too. IIRC, it gets down to about 27 Hz at the seat, with room gain.

Doc

kingtut

06-23-2004, 05:00 PM

Can't wait for the result. Thanks for the info.

rlam01

06-23-2004, 06:37 PM

Doc,
Any pics of your testing equipment?

Dr. Spec

06-24-2004, 10:23 AM

Doc,
Any pics of your testing equipment?

Not a lot to see, really. The Behringer ECM8000 mic is visible in the PB2-Ultra review at HTF.

The mic preamp is a Behringer UB1002, used strictly for phantom power and overall mix level.

TrueRTA is the software program.

The B&K SPL meter is visible in the Avia vs. DVE thread at HTF.

I don't have any pics of the B&K sound level calibrator, but it looks like a small beer can. :)

Shizelbs

07-09-2004, 02:26 PM

Doc, thanks for the review. I tend to keep quiet and not post much on this forum when it comes to subs, but I am always reading. I appreciate the write up. Undoubtedly it will help me make a better sub purchase, whenever that day shall come.