Will be ordering LSi....wat about Carver??

[2+2]

Well I will be ordering LSi15, LSiC, and LSiFX this weekend. In case you are wondering what changed from the last post, I decided to wait on the DLP TV. I was going to just get the LSi 15 and go cheap on the rest of the speakers and receiver but man, you guys let it be known that I will be doing the speakers injustice. Anyhow.

How are Carver amps? The dealer had a demo AV505 (5 channel 80 watts/ch with all channels driven and 100 watts/ch with 2 channels driven) who is wanting to sell for $400. I think I can get it a bit lower. Any thoughts/experience? I am planning to run a Yamaha htr-5660 (refurb) as a pre-amp.

TIA

[F1nut]

CARVER
PWR, AV-505 5-CHANNEL 8 OHMS
Description:
Manufacture Years: 1997 - Current
Additional Information:
Power: 400
Retail
MSRP: $1,000.00
USED: $150.00


If memory serves me, those Carver amps are not all that good. Whatever you buy, make sure it can run 4 ohm loads.

[venomclan]

Hi 2+2,
I think you made a wise decision by getting a seperate amp instaed of a receiver for the Lsi's. I would not recommend that Carver, I never had one but have heard mixed opinions on it. Besides, www.onecall.com has been trying to clearance them out for the last 6 months at $288.00, I think they still have some.

Check www.audiogon.com for some used amp, you can get some nice deals on some Adcom, Parasound or Rotel amps that should go great with your Lsi's.

Remember, Don't try to get it all done in 1 day unless you plan to spend some serious cash. It took some of years to put together a really nice system. Good Luck
Venom

Mains: B&W CDM7NT
Center: B&W CDMCNT
Surround: Polk LS/FX
Main Amp: Krell KAV250A
Center Amp: Outlaw M200
Surround Amp: Adcom 535
2-channel Pre: Krell KAV250P
Main Pre amp: Outlaw 950
CD Player: Marantz CD5400
Wire and IC: StraightWire Level 2 & 3

[2+2]

Thanks for the insights. Yea...I should take things slow and do it right....its my personality....rush rush rush...maybe I will pass on that amp and just run the Yamaha until I can locate a use good amp for cheap. The Yamaha claims it can run 4ohm speakers (it even has a switch) but I am sure it's going to leave something to be desired, especially in HT mode. Well, what do you think about me low balling the heck out of it ....say $175 or 200 since its practically new with box and manual? Since this will be my first step into "separates", maybe I will really like it? Or is it that bad that it is not even worth it. May it is better to put that $ toward the integrated amp?

[F1nut]

It's a demo, it's used and only worth $150.00. Walk away, save your money and buy something better. BTW, it's not in HT that is going to leave something to be desired, but in 2 channel.

[Mazeroth]

HK AVR230 + Crown XLS402A pro amps...I'm holding firm on this decision :)

You stated on your last thread that real estate was important to you. These amps really aren't large at all. Check the specs on the site. You can NOT find a better bang for your buck, I promise you. The amps also come with 3 year no-fault warranties. They ROCK!

[2+2]

Yeah, looking at audiogon, I see that I do have some options for under $1000.....way too many choices.

Mezeroth, the realestate I am referring to is the AV wall unit...not sure about having 3 of these things as less components the better... and I am not an electically skilled person...

Truthfully, I would really like to have a really good integrated unit without breaking hte bank and be done with it but based on what is said here, that doesnt seem likely.

[F1nut]

Do you want a integrated for HT? I'm don't see how that could work. If you want it for 2 channel, then I've got a few for you to look at.

[2+2]

ooops...i think I misspoke.... I meant an integrated AV receiver...if I understand hifi talk, i think integrated amp means amp with a preamp. good night folks...bed time.

[F1nut]

Ok, in hi-fi talk what you're refering to is called a AVR. :D

[venomclan]

Hey 2+2,
What is your total electronics budget? If you already have the Yamaha to use as a pre-amp, why not get a b-stock Outlaw 7100?
That will have the juice to push the LSi's.

I personally beleive that you should focus on the best amplification for your lsi15's. The center and surrounds should not need that much power.

I put 250 watts to my fronts, 200 watts for the center, and 60 watts to my surrounds.
Venom

[2+2]

Well, I actually need an "AVR":) .... and from what people say here, a separate amp. I guess the AVR then serves as a preamp and the digital processor...I think you guys call it a pre/pro?

As to the budget, the LSis blew my speaker budget big time by getting the center and the surrounds so my 62" DLP is post-poned. The more I spend on the AVR and amp, the longer the delay for getting a TV.:( Keep in mind that I will likely have to get a subwoofer sooner or later but that can wait till after the TV. My 32" will have to do when watching movies (way too small for the room...looks like a 12" with widescreen format from the sitting area).

Right now, I am thinking getting like an older model Yamaha that can drive 4 ohms (so they claim) with preouts until I can find an amp but the guy at the store mentioned something. He said make sure I get an AVR with component inputs and high enough "bandwidth" to support HDTV signals" (or something like that)?!? What does that mean? The older AVRs say video switching "DC to 30Mhz" while newer ones say "5Hz to 60MHz". Of course, the latter is better.... but is "DC to 30Mhz" HDTV compatible?

[venomclan]

Hi 2+2,
Here is my advise, you are not going to want to hear it but here goes. If I were you, I would postpone the purchase of the LSI's.

As of right now, you do not have the correct gear to run the LSI's, nor have the budget for the right gear. I assume that when you say dealer, you mean Tweeter/Sound Advise for the Polk's. Unless you are getting a killer deal on the LSI's, don't buy them yet. They are not going anywhere.

It sounds like you are more of a video guy firsthand. I would recommend getting the DLP you want now so you can enjoy the larger screen. Then take whatever is left of the budget, save a little more, then get the right gear (even used). Your last purchase should be the LSI's.

Since it sounds like you are a guy who likes quality, it would behoove you to bypass the receiver and go for seperates. If you just wanted plain sound, you would have already bought a receiver and some lower end speakers, and would not have looked at the LSI's at all.

I recommend you wait on the POLK's because I think that you will be throwing away money on an AVR. I wish I could go back and get the money back that I spent on an AVR. Though top of the line for its time, my AVR eventually became a paperweight as my quest for better sound increased.

I am however, more of an audio guy than a video guy and cannot answer your HD questions. I do agree with the sales guy to make sure that you get a processor with component in's, if you choose to use the av processor as the center of your system.
Good Luck,
Jeremy

[2+2]

Thanks for your advice Jermey. Actually, I am an audio guy in that I expect to use the system for 80% music and 20% HT. The music is 80% classical (generally large orchestral), 10% dinner, and 10% hard rock....hence I was willing to wait on the TV rather than wait on the audio. I do agree that I should get good stuff off the bat, if possible. I do appreciate this forum's advice so far and pointing me to audiogon. I do have a lot to learn.

[Sami]

You should find a decent AVR for preamp duty here for less than $200:

http://stores.ebay.com/Harman-Audio_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQdptZ0QQsclZallQQsotimedisp layZ2QQtZkm

Get separate amps for the speakers, should be less than $800 for all 5 if you go used. Or new Outlaw 7100.

Do you have a light controlled HT room? If so, consider front projector. You can get a great CRT quite cheap but you don't seem to mind digital either. Check out the HT forum member deals on InFocus 4805. I think they are selling a screen and a projector for less than $1500.

[tjmaxwell]

Originally posted by venomclan
Hey 2+2,
What is your total electronics budget? If you already have the Yamaha to use as a pre-amp, why not get a b-stock Outlaw 7100?
That will have the juice to push the LSi's.

I personally beleive that you should focus on the best amplification for your lsi15's. The center and surrounds should not need that much power.

I put 250 watts to my fronts, 200 watts for the center, and 60 watts to my surrounds.
Venom

I bought the B-Stock 7100 amp from Outlaw for $825 shipped and it looks brand new. I use it in conjunction with my Denon AVR-3805 receiver to power my LSI 5.1 setup and couldn't be happier. I'm interested to hear how you can put different wattages into different speakers though. My LSi7 rears are pretty quiet most of the time, so it would be nice to give the LSi15 fronts some more juice. I didn't see anything in the Outlaw manual saying how to do this though. How do you do it, and would it be beneficial in my case?

Oh, I don't mean to hijack the thread. If you're looking for a relatively inexpensive multi-channel amp, I don't think you can do much better than the 7100.

Edit: I also noticed the mention of going front projection. If you're considering dropping $3K+ on a DLP TV, I'd advise you to give some serious thought to front projection if you have a good sized room and good light control. I have a Sharp DLP projector and a 92" screen and could never ever go back to standard television. I imagine if you just went with something inexpensive like an InFocus X1, you'd feel the same way and have much more money to spend on your audio equipment.

[2+2]

Thanks for the HK suggestion Sami (and Mezeroth as well). Admittedly, HK's never did much for me in the looks department. (No offense as beauty is in the eye of the beholder). I think they sound pretty good but for what ever reason, never liked the layout or their knobs...

Man...you guys are killin me...I am heading off to Myer Emco to see what they have in terms of avr/amps. Was there before to listen to speakers... I'll take a look at their Rotel products as they appear to be well regarded here and elsewhere. My wife is laughing at the sight of me not trying to spend money but my requirements keep on going up and up!!! All you guyses fault.

:D

[F1nut]

Myer-Emco, eh? You must live in the DC - N. VA area. You need to do yourself a favor, check out Soundworks in Kensington, MD.

[2+2]

Yup F1, I am in No.VA. I did check out Soundworks. That is where I listened to Energy and Totems...since that's about all I can afford at that place. Had extremely nice stuff and extremely $$$ stuff.:)

Well, I saw what Rotel had to offer. the RSX 1056 was interesting and visually nice and appear to have been getting good reviews. Not sure about the interface (you need to hook it to a TV screen in order to do much).

I am inclined to get an AVR and a amp like you guys have suggested. Depending on the AVR, the amp may be 2 or 5 channel.

It's scary cuz how are you supposed to know what combo of AVR and amp sound good (not to mention know what amps sound good if you are looking at used)?:confused: My understanding is that the preamp can/do impact sound right?

Is there a known combination of AVR/amp that is favored on this board as sounding good in driving LSi system I should look at?? I would like to keep the combo at say $1000.

I know HK 525 was mentioned with the Crown amp.

Any other combos?

Thanks....maybe I will start a new thread requesting known combos.

[venomclan]

Hi tjmaxwell,
Sorry, but I think you misunderstood my recommendation. I actually do not own an Outlaw 7100. It was my suggestion to 2+2.
I use 3 different amps to power my system.
Krell-250 wattts
Outlaw Monoblock-200 watts
Adcom- 60 watts

You cannot give a channel on the 7100 more juice than the others. However, if you are only using 5 channels, I do know of some people biamping their mains for more power.
Best Regards,
Jeremy

[venomclan]

Hi 2+2,
If you plan to use the system mainly for music and have a critical ear, you might want to get a decent 2 channel preamp. There a re plenty of nice and inexpensive 2 channels pre's available, but not many a/v preamps do 2 channel very well. I began using my Outlaw 950 for 2 channel listening, it was good, but not stellar. The Outlaw is made primarily for movies, where it excels. The same goes for most receivers out there.

Manufacturers today are building avr's for movies mostly because that is where the money is. DVD sales continue to increase. 2 channel listening has fallen by the wayside for the most part. I ended up getting a Krell amp and preamp for critical listening. However, my 2 channel preamp has a home theater pass through which allows the preamp to have neutral gain when watching movies. Meaning, I can use the same amps, preamps and speakers for movies or 2 channel, but use the volume control on my Outlaw to watch movies.

This gives me the best of both worlds in one system. I don't mean
to complicate things, but you are making a multi thousand $ purchase and you do not want to get the wrong stuff. Good Luck,
Jeremy

[2+2]

Thanks folks.
Jeremy, so it has been your observation that modern AVRs pre-amp sections do not do stereo very well? So your recommendation is to get a preamp with a bypass to run movies. You would still need the decoder so I would still need an AVR tho. I will keep your advice in mind and once I get the TV, sub and a good CD/DVD player, I will have to revisit the issue.

[venomclan]

Hi 2+2,
You can get an a/v pre amp used for not that much. I saw a Harmon Kardon pre 2.0 on audiogon yesterday for $230. This piece was $2100 5 years ago and will decode dolby digital. Since only 20% of your use will be movies, the standard 5.1 decoding (dolby digital) may be enough for you. There are many new soundformat out there, but dolby digital is the standard movie sound format. Many new avr's will have all kinds of different formats. Bells and whistles in my opinion, because if you do not have the right speakers or amps, the point is moot.

Also, when checking out whether to buy used gear, visit www.audioreview.com. There you can look up users reviews before you buy.
Good luck,
Jeremy

[sbrst58]

--You cannot give a channel on the 7100 more juice than the others. However, if you are only using 5 channels, I do know of some people biamping their mains for more power. --


Just wondering, but doesn't the 7100 feature 7 power outs whose individual output level would be a determined by what the preamp sends? If you can't change the levels, then you could do no room balancing whatsoever, I don't think thats right..

[2+2]

Thanks gents...I will check out ebay for HK. As far as projection goes, I have very poor light control so that is not an option.:( Outlaw huh...I will check them out. Thanks for the suggestion.

As to the question about running different watts, it is my understanding that you can use your AV to run the surrounds/center and run a two channel amp to your mains. I suppose the amp settings must be carefully adjusted and your AVR must still be able to handle 4 ohms. Check out my other thread....I just ordered my LSis.

[venomclan]

Hi sbrst58,
Yes, you can set whatever pre amp to large or small, change crossover frequncies etc. This is in the pre amp section and can be done with any amp. However, you will not increase the power output of the amp. Remember, most music and movies never play at 1oo watts, 200, whatever. Our ears would be bleeding. Most movies and music only need about 10-20 watts 90% of the time, only pulling reserve power at loud trasients.

[venomclan]

Hi sbrst58,
Yes, you can set whatever pre amp to large or small, change crossover frequncies etc. This is in the pre amp section and can be done with any amp. However, you will not increase the power output of the amp. Remember, most music and movies never play at 1oo watts, 200, whatever. Our ears would be bleeding. Most movies and music only need about 10-20 watts 90% of the time, only pulling reserve power at loud trasients.
A preamp, no matter what setting it is on, cannot change the power of the amp it is hooked to.

The main reason I said the following -
You cannot give a channel on the 7100 more juice than the others. However, if you are only using 5 channels, I do know of some people biamping their mains for more power.
is because you cannot bridge channels with this amp. Some amps allow this, thus increasing the output.

My main point is- many amps out there offer equal power for all their channels. I d0 not think it is necessary to feed most rear/side surrounds with the same power needed for the fronts.
Venom