UPS damage....my rights.

[superbrett]

Had a rather unfortunate experience w/UPS latley.
The SVS I sold on ebay was damaged in transit to the buyer. I insured it, and the buyer had filed a claim w/UPS.
First off, they said it was my fault for not packaging it correctly. I know thats not true, I used more foam and supports than I thought neccessary.
Anyhow, the SVS arrived w/damaged corners on the two front bottom sides.
It had Tons of "fragile" stickers on it, as weel as some "heavy" ones.
Anyway, now UPS is dicking me around, saying it was my faoult and tehy aren't going to cover the calim. And, to top it off, the total B*tch that bought it want's me to reimberse her for $400 of the SUB, and she keeps it.

I've never dealt w/UPS on a claim before, (or anyone for that matter).
Do I have a leg to stand on?

[jdhdiggs]

DO you have photos of the packing job you did? If so, I can send you some photos of the original packing job SVS does and you could show how they match or you over packed the sub...

[RuSsMaN]

You can try to appeal it, but basically, no, you have no rights.

Fight on the phone, and get to a supervisor, that's your best and only chance.

I don't ship UPS anymore, for this very reason. Anyone who has gotten a package from me know's how its packed. Well, I finally had one show up damaged - and UPS simply said 'inadequate packaging'. It's in the appeal process now, almost 8 weeks later.

At this point, Im going Fed Ex ground, and giving DHL a shot. I'm also saving the couple of bucks insurance costs on each package, and setting it aside in a separate account to 'self insure' my packages. I'll handle my own claims from this point forward.

Cheers,
Russ

[steveinaz]

I use Fedex/DHL exclusively for this reason, even at work. I've seen UPS toss things across the truck to get at my stuff, and yes, I've said things to them about that.

Best way to send the signal is to quit patronizing their business. Use FedEx.

[superbrett]

Thanks guys,
I do have some photo's of the packing job....don't ask me why, I just got a new camera, and happened to be trying it out on the box....go figure.
I havn't spoken to anyone from UPS about this matter, this is all just what the lady who bought it is telling me....

Brett

[RuSsMaN]

Tell her to keep all the packing materials, and YOU file a claim with UPS. They will send a rep out, and pick up the sub and either pay your claim, or return it to you.

I'd ask her for a picture of the damage also, not saying she's dishonest, but I've had people say there was damage and ask for a partial refund - when infact there was no damage at all.

When confronted with the chance of UPS picking up the item, or me asking for photo documentation - they seem to 'vanish' into thin air.

Cheers,
Russ

[tryrrthg]

Try contacting SVS, I'm sure they would help you out with UPS, especially if SVS uses UPS to ship it's cylinder subs! They may have some pull if UPS is trying to screw you over!

In any case, SVS should be able to verify that the PB2-ISD has ample packing to be shipped...

[TheGrayGhost]

Brett,

You should call UPS to determine who must file the claim. I could be wrong but believe that the shipper must file for damage because you are the one that paid.

[exalted512]

russman has a great point...she could be bull shitting you
there is supposed to be 2" of padding on everyside i believe
i used to work at a mail center but we never had anything like that come up....did u send it yourself or did you go to a ups store
if so, go there and ask, and even if you didnt and you have a store that does ups around...ask them and they can call...they have individual reps that might be able to help you
and at the mail center i worked out...we werent out to get you and we were not UPS...we were just a shipper and if something like that wouldve come up we wouldve been more than happy to help
-Cody

[gidrah]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Keep trying.

About the only positive thing I can add is that there is a possibility of a Polk member being close to the buyer. If she wants a full refund (deservedly so regardless of the source), then she should not be able to keep it too. Also maybe that member could verify the working (or lacking thereof) condition of the sub.

That's why I like "in-house" sales over even local yocals. I got burnt on a a local amp once. It made sound and I was happy. When I got home one channel was making a nasty sound on the top end. The seller was (deservedly so) very uncaring and would not take it back. I can't blame him. I might have inadvertantly touched the leads, even if I'm positive I didn't.

I'm getting to my point. Trust me.
I also had a deal with a local member. George Grand if you must know. I received an integrated amp. The outer box (double boxed) was fine and the amp itself looked like a very happy wooden cased bug in a snug rug. When I hooked it up it sounded like shit. Had I received this amp through other channels, after looking at the integrity of the outer (and inner) box, I would have assumed that the piece was bad to start. Knowing better, I investigated the situation to find that a circuit board inside the amp had come loose in transit. I soon realized that this package was so well packed to the point that while it showed minimal extenal damage (on the outer box), what had happened is that the innards could not hold up to the rough handling of shipment. When in a car accident, your seatbelt might protect you from slamming off the dash, but your gut is still gonna feel it.

Hopefully this is just that.

[PolkThug]

I love how UPS lets you buy insurance from them without them checking if they will even cover it.

[jdhdiggs]

Not to poke fun of you superbrett, but this is why on my limited ship outs, I document the condition and packing before sending it out and send that to the person on the other end. If they have any issues or comments, I modify to their wishes. If anything is damaged, ask for a digital photo back of the damage. This way you have before/after pics and the claim is easier to make

My one exception for this was the LSi7's I sent out, but I figured boxes that hold $250K products can hold some speakers that fit perfectly and I wanted to keep the boxes sealed.

[superbrett]

Oh I documentind everything, I also insure it for $1000.
When the UPS guy came to pick it up, he signed a document saying he inspected the package and deemed it fit for shipping. (if you can count looking at it and asking..."wow, thats heavy", a inspection.)
I have a copy of this, as well as a copy the driver took with him.

I'm not really great with all the legal fine print on it. So, if someone else can help me out that knows what I'm talking about, that would be alifesaver!

I print labels on my home PC, for UPS. When I entered this shipment, and the amount insured, it requested I have these documents ready to sign for the driver....

[wallstreet]

The receiver doesn't file the claim, the shipper does. Under no circumstances does the lady get to keep the package. Just get your speaker back, refund her the money, and take it up with UPS on the damage claim. If they don't pay the claim, at the very least, they owe you the money you spent on insurance.

[dorokusai]

UPS has the right to tell you to "Go f*ck yourself." Follow procedure and hope for the best.

The shipper is who receives the monies, and is the benefactor of a "claim"...as stated above...sorry read late.

Walter(Wallstreet) made it pretty clear.

[nebborjk]

I worked for UPS several years ago doing package auditing. I saw first hand how packages where handled. It was down right scary. Fragile stickers meant nothing to the package handlers. I wish I had a dollar for every Dell PC I saw thrown onto the conveyer belt. Sad. Good luck with your claim.

[trubluluc]

Wallstreet wrote:

"The receiver doesn't file the claim, the shipper does. Under no circumstances does the lady get to keep the package. Just get your speaker back, refund her the money, and take it up with UPS on the damage claim. If they don't pay the claim, at the very least, they owe you the money you spent on insurance."

Brett- wallstreet is on the money here,
this is between you and UPS.
And believe me, I know what those morons can do to a SVS subwoofer box, you might recall my photos of what they did to my PB1.

Keep all documentation, get the lady to photograph the damage to the box, and the sub. Believe it or not, she can help you here.<br>
If UPS won't man up.....
It's called small claims court buddy,
For claims up to $5000.

-Luc

[dragon1952]

I also recently lost a claim due to 'inadequate packing' , which was absolute bullshit. I will never use UPS again. They use this excuse everytime and get away with it. You basically have to have a package with a forklift blade hole in it to collect. Even if they drop it they'll claim inadequate packing. In other words, you should have packed it so dropping it wouldn't do damage. And you better because in most cases they will drop it. What I don't understand is why they are willing to screw you for a stinking $100 claim when they end up losing much more than that through loss of your business. What a piece of shit company!
I urge everyone to please avoid UPS and go with FED-EX or the US Postal Service. Screw those assholes!

[aequitas]

i have to go with what trublu said with the smalls claims court. I would get a supervisor on the phone and if it seems like they are still dicking you over I would threaten the supervisor with the action of taking them to court. The thing is that it will cost UPS 100 times as more to pay their lawyers for this in court than it will to just pay for the damage. So just the threat of takin them to court, even if it is a small claims court or your not even that thrilled about going, could be enough to get them to just pay up. When your talking to the supervisor also bring up the fact that the driver signed the sheet saying it was packed well enough and that you have pictures of the packing and so on. Things that could be used as evidence in a court of law. Well there is my 2 cents. gl

[anonymouse]

I agree. Be nice about it, but be firm. I would also suggest emailing UPS public relations and marking a note to your local newspaper. This gets action real quickly. You have rights as a consumer, if not in a court of law, then certainly in the court of public opinion. And UPS would hate to be dragged into that court. This company has a history of poor business practices. Do not let them get away with it.
A note to the BBB would also help.

[steveinaz]

Bravo on the 2 above posts. Legal consequence is the only language corporations understand. Take'm to court, you'll feel alot better about the situation, and you WILL get your money.

[madmax]

When I dealt with them they very quickly denied my claim. After that I faxed them before and after pics and they settled it right away. This may just be a standard for them, you know, deny it and if you complain then pay it. They gave me no hassle over it after faxing the pics. BTW, I faxed them like 20 pages. I don't think they like that too much. :D
madmax

[trubluluc]

.....Lawyers aren't allowed!
It's one on one man, no holds barred.

-Luc

[aequitas]

its true that no lawyers are involved in the court, but lets be honest, if it comes down to it, whoever shows up on UPSs behalf will either have a strong law background or have been carefully coached by their team of lawyers. Besides i would say that court is more a threat than a real answer because as much of a hassle it is to UPS it will be the same to you (in terms of time and effort put in). Its sad, but sometimes it seems that the only threats that can be heard in todays society are those that end in, "I'll see you in court."

[I-SIG]

Originally posted by aequitas
Its sad, but sometimes it seems that the only threats that can be heard in todays society are those that end in, "I'll see you in court."


What happened to dueling??? ;)

Wes