Favorite Center Channels

[Early B.]

Anyone heard or own a fantastic center channel speaker? The Csi40 is good, but what's better? What makes it so good?

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

None? Thats my favorite kind...

Dual bookshelfs are much better and offer much more options...IMO

But if I had to choose, my vote goes to the monsterous center channel from Definitive.

Clear, full sounding center...

Dimensions: 25" W x 8-5/16" H x 16" D.
Response: 19 — 30 kHz.
Nominal Imp.: 4 — 8 ohms.
Rec. amp: 20 — 400 watts.
Built-in sub amp: 150 watts RMS.
Drivers: 10" sub, two cast-basket 6-1/2" bass/midranges, 1" pure aluminum dome tweeter.
Auto On/Off: Signal sensing.
Finish: piano gloss black or golden cherry. Tri-wireable.
Retail: $999 ea.

[Early B.]

But if I had to choose, my vote goes to the monsterous center channel from Definitive.

Sid -- that center channel has a powered subwoofer in it. Just wondering -- can you get a small sub, plug it into the pre-out on your receiver, set the receiver's center channel setting to LARGE, and get a similar result from a Csi40? If so, it would a lot cheaper than spending $1,000 on a center channel.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

However that center channel is a bit out of Polks league price wise - even without the sub.

That C/L/R 3000 is killer, and they are going to be replacing it with a different model that incorporates the supercube technology in it. Probally will have an 8" active, dual 8" PRs - or 10" active, 2 10" PRs...

Polk really needs to release a line up in the 4,000 a pair range - I dont see why they couldnt??

But anyways, No - I dont think a CSi40 could compare. Would be an interesting shoot out against the CSi5 though. Maybe... LSiC would be a much better match up, IMO

Here is Definitives 6.5" midbass offering...

Dimensions: 21-1/2" W x 8-5/16" H x 15" D.
Response: 22 — 30 kHz.
Nominal Imp.: 4 — 8 ohms.
Rec. amp: 20 — 350 watts.
Drivers: Two cast-basket 6 1/2" bass/midranges, 1" pure aluminum dome tweeter.
Finish: piano gloss black or golden cherry. Bi-wireable.
Retail: $650 ea.

Here is the other offering they have...

Dimensions: 21" W x 6 3/4" H x 12" D.
Response: 30 — 30 kHz.
Nominal Imp.: 4 — 8 ohms.
Rec. amp: 20 — 250 watts.
Drivers: Two cast-basket 5 1/4" bass/midranges, 1" pure aluminum dome tweeter.
Finish: piano gloss black or golden cherry. Bi-wireable.
Retail: $499 ea.

I wonder if they use transmission line tuning in the centers too. If they perform anything like their towers, those low end responses are accurate, with maximum wattage.

I think everyone should give them a chance, in-home. Not in-store.

They offer other centers too, but they are for their speaker systems like polks RM setups... (that cost less than 500)

My other favorite center channel is from Axiom -

VP150 Specifications
Max Amp Power 400 Watts
Min Amp Power 10 Watts
Freq Resp +/-3dB (Hz) 85-22K
Freq Resp +3dB/-9dB (Hz) 50-22K
SPL in Room 1w/1m 95 dB
Anechoic SPL 1w/1m 91 dB
Impedance 6 Ohms
Woofer Triple 5.25"
Tweeter Dual 1"
Dimens. (in.)(HxWxD) 7.5x26.5x7.5
Weight 17 lbs per

There was some other center channel that was really high end that had alot of tweeters and midranges and woofers that was really cool looking.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Polk *did* have insane centers...

The CS1000P, the SRT center ---- Who else has killer centers?? Is Polk ever gonna release another big one??

[Early B.]

OK, Sid, but what about the question I asked re: hooking up a sub to the pre-out...

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

I say try it --

But, it would defeat the purpose if you located the sub away from the center instead of under it, or beside it - I dunno...

If you can locate it WITH the center, then I say try it. Still don't think it will outperform the CLR3000 ;) (if that is what you mean) -

I personally like the idea of a subwoofer on every channel, just as long as you can keep them close to another -

Like say you have your center on a stand in front of the TV, you could the sub under that...

[jmierzur]

Originally posted by Early B.
Anyone heard or own a fantastic center channel speaker? The Csi40 is good, but what's better? What makes it so good?

A good center channel speaker is one that is timbre matched with your main speakers to present a cohesive front image. When you select your main speakers, take into account they will be for HT use and select a series having matching center and surround speakers.

Have heard many systems in all price ranges in local shops in normal to very large rooms that did not have a sub on the center channel. Owners of the shops nor I did not notice any problems with the sound.

[Early B.]

I'll try it next week and see how it sounds.

[ntculenuff]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3


I personally like the idea of a subwoofer on every channel, just as long as you can keep them close to another -


i have the same thinkin' and every one at work thinks i am crazy :D

that definitive center is on my list as next for purchase. just going to have to do some re aranging to get it to fit.

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
None? Thats my favorite kind...

Dual bookshelfs are much better and offer much more options...IMO



I thought you were supposed to use a center channel. :confused:

I dont understand this HT stuff. I thought you were supposed to have as many speakers as you can. I mean now were up to 7.1!! But when I asked which to go with on another thread everybody told me 2 channel.

I dont get it. So you dont need 41 speakers to have a good HT? Thats great if you dont, then I can just go out and buy some really good floor standings and leave it at that.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

If your mains image well enough and you relatively sit in the center and people around you do to, you can live without a center petty easily...

Dual bookshelfs can be used, but you may need a seperate amp to run them....

I only have 4 speakers in my HT, and it is the best HT I've had so far in my room...

NT - Your theater is gonna be SOLID. Any plans to change out the surrounds to?

[dorokusai]

I'm not a huge Martin Logan fan, but this sounded really nice.

[jmierzur]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
Dual bookshelfs can be used, but you may need a seperate amp to run them....

I only have 4 speakers in my HT, and it is the best HT I've had so far in my room...

Dual speakers as a center channel may produce a comb filter effect. Attenuation and cancellation of certain frequencies. That is why they make dedicated single speakers for the center.

4 speaker HT is ideal if you are the only listener sitting in the 'sweet' spot. A center is used if many listeners are present within the room so it 'fixes' the location of the center information.

I perfer one (or two) excellent subs than many lesser subs. I like my system to dig deep (and sound better overall) when required and in my case, spent extra money getting two better subs. Lesser subs may have a harder time reaching as low as better subs AND may not sound as good. Just my two cents.

Originally posted by MacLeod
I thought you were supposed to use a center channel.

I dont understand this HT stuff. I thought you were supposed to have as many speakers as you can. I mean now were up to 7.1!! But when I asked which to go with on another thread everybody told me 2 channel.

I dont get it. So you dont need 41 speakers to have a good HT? Thats great if you dont, then I can just go out and buy some really good floor standings and leave it at that.

MacLeod,

If YOU want an HT system for listening to movies in 'surround' sound or for multi-channel music, you will need five to seven speakers (I would suggest that you start with five until you become more familiar with this HT stuff) and a subwoofer.

If YOU only want to listen to two-channel music and watch movies in stereo, then you will only require two speakers. This allows you to buy 'better' equipment for the same price as a multi-channel system as you do can contrate on only two channels of sound instead of five or more.

The number of speakers depends on what YOU (and family) mainly will listen to, not what others think you should do. Keep asking questions on the format (stereo or HT) until you are comfortable with your knowledge.

[MacLeod]

That makes sense.

Start with a good set of 2 channel speakers like the Monitor 60 Im wanting then work from there for surround and center speakers.

[gatemplin]

http://signature.paradigm.com/HTML_Site/Product_Images/Signature/CatalogImages/C5.jpg

The Sig series from Paradigm looks and sounds awesome, but I wouldn't buy new speakers anyway.

Dual speakers as a center channel may produce a comb filter effect. Attenuation and cancellation of certain frequencies. That is why they make dedicated single speakers for the center.

4 speaker HT is ideal if you are the only listener sitting in the 'sweet' spot. A center is used if many listeners are present within the room so it 'fixes' the location of the center information.

I perfer one (or two) excellent subs than many lesser subs. I like my system to dig deep (and sound better overall) when required and in my case, spent extra money getting two better subs. Lesser subs may have a harder time reaching as low as better subs AND may not sound as good. Just my two cents.

I agree completely.

[Airplay355]

a sub on every channel is going to cause all sorts of problems....save your money and buy one nice sub....your ears can't tell where those frequencies are coming from anyway, and if they can then its your room acoustics. fix those not your sub.

dorok- you really liked that center channel? i thought it sounded nice with high frequencies but died if someone had a deeper voice.

[dorokusai]

Airplay - It sure sounded good in the setup I was listening to....I'm not sure what else to say. You know how rooms and gear go, it may just have been a good match that day.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

JM -

I said that, well I edited it after I posted to say that ;) - I realize not everyone can get along with having no center channel...

And many people run multiple centers with their systems... (with positive results, might I add) - I ran a pair of RT5, great results. My Dad runs a pair of KEFs as his center... Scottvamp, Tnvt (?) runs them (lots of them) -- etc etc, all positive results...

And as far as inferrior subs go. We are not talking about running inferrior subwoofers. The built in subwoofers in the Defs are technologies, drivers, amps from their seperate subwoofers incorporated in their towers...

And if you run a high quality subwoofer on every channel, + a high quality seperate subwoofer, all calibrated - etc. The differences can be good, IMO.

Full range surrounds make a gigantic difference, I can't see why a center channel that is full range wouldnt offer similar results.

I have seen that ML center, thing is a pretty good size, you'd need on heck of a TV to set that on top of...

[Early B.]

a sub on every channel is going to cause all sorts of problems....save your money and buy one nice sub....your ears can't tell where those frequencies are coming from anyway, and if they can then its your room acoustics. fix those not your sub.

I hear ya, but just wondering what the big rave has been for Def Tech's center channel speakers with powered subs. I personally haven't heard on yet, but from everything I've read on the web, people say it's an awesome listening experience. Def Tech has HT packages with subs in every speaker. At one time I had three cheap subs on my HT system and it was incredible. The only reason I removed them is because, well uh, they were cheap. I wanted a better sound. Right now I have a SVS PB12 and it works fine. I used to have Polk RTi10's up front set to LARGE and I preferred it that way. Bass all over the place, I say. Will it create problems with room acoustics and all that other technical stuff? I don't know - probably. But I think it's worth experimenting, though.

I don't totally agree that your ears can't tell the difference where bass frequencies are coming from. Sure, in an ideal environment that may be true, but most of us don't even come close to ideal. For instance, due to the WAF, there's only one corner of my room where a big sub like the SVS can go -- hidden on the side of the couch, and I can certainly locate the bass from the seating position. Not a big deal, though. Now it's a different story on my 2-channel system. I tried several locations in the room for placement of the sub and the back right corner works best. Can't tell where the bass is coming from at all. It appears as though the bass is coming directly from the speakers. In fact, most people won't even notice that I have a sub. Kinda cool how those bass frequencies work.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Well, you have to remember. Definitive dosnt use cheap stuff in the sub department...

The powered towers use the super cube technology - and the centers soon will to (to my knowledge) and I dont see why they wouldnt change the surrounds to...

I am not sure what they are using right now in the centers... where those drivers/amps came from...

Personally, I am just waiting for them to upgrade the passive towers with the new drivers from the new TOTL dangit...

I have heard an all out theater with Definitives TOTL gear on 40,000 dollars worth of Mcintosh gear...

Simply the best HT I have heard at any price. Simply amazing, enveloping - powerful, everything.

It is worth trying. That 80hz crossover thing is over-rated. Full range all the way!

[Early B.]

That 80hz crossover thing is over-rated. Full range all the way!

ABSOLUTELY!

[Airplay355]

true true

[Mjr7531]

If a center had a 10" driver, where on earth would you put it and still take advange of the horizontal configuration, or am I missing something?

My favorite center would have to be the CSi5, the kickstand sold me. :)

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

It has a 10" top firing sub cochise...

The thing is 15 inches deep...

[jmierzur]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
And many people run multiple centers with their systems... (with positive results, might I add) - I ran a pair of RT5, great results. My Dad runs a pair of KEFs as his center... Scottvamp, Tnvt (?) runs them (lots of them) -- etc etc, all positive results...

And as far as inferrior subs go. We are not talking about running inferrior subwoofers. The built in subwoofers in the Defs are technologies, drivers, amps from their seperate subwoofers incorporated in their towers...

Glad multiple centers work for you.

As far as I'm concerned, the 'super cube' technology is inferior regardless of the price. Looked at them locally before purchasing my latest subs. Demo took about 30 seconds before I headed for the door. They would be my last choice of any sub and I would purchase one if I only had a cubic foot left in the entire room; thankfully I have more room left.

[dorokusai]

Jmierzur - I'm essentially with you on the "built-in" approach. It may work for the masses, but I have zero interest in that idea....to include the LSi15/25.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

lol, I never said they were good subs, I said they use high quality parts - (not inferrior) - they can hit low, and they wont go bonkers on you at higher volumes...

To me, the seperate Def Tech subwoofers are pretty boomy... and the ones in the old line were pretty boomy as well (the old powered towers) - the new supercube technology built in to the towers is nice though, IMO - I've heard it properly setup, real nice - I wouldnt mind owning it.

I personally like passive full range towers, that don't need subwoofers to get there. (hehe, I own a few of them things) :p ;)

As far as multiple centers go - you gotta try it one day, excellent results. Sometimes you just gotta try something that goes against knowledge... :p

Ok, I can see the next reply coming - so I am going to clarify a bit more -

I like passive full range towers, because I like to have a seperate subwoofer to help it out...

However, I like powered full range center and surrounds because the subwoofer is located WITH the speakers and not away, to me - this aids in overall sound of the speaker, making it much more fuller - also saves space... That, and full range surrounds are freakin killer!

[Mazeroth]

The best center is no center at all.

[dorokusai]

Originally posted by Mazeroth
The best center is no center at all.

I have to disagree completely, as I don't know how you could accomplish that effectively without the use of a center channel. HT is multi channel driven...sure you can get "effect" from a simple L&R in perhaps a phantom mode, but it's still not the same, and never will be.

The formats are defined and being driven home, so you don't have a choice but to conform to one application or another.

Sing your 2CH HT praises all you want, you'll never match the level of even a 5.1 HT.....sorry, but that's just the way it goes.

I chose to build multiple rigs, thus letting me handle my goat, in a way I see fit.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Well no center could work, if your the only listener! Then it works fine! No center is definetely better for Pro Logic, IMO

[gidrah]

Seeburg DDS-1. Two 15" Utah woofers and an Altec horn.

[Mazeroth]

With line arrays there is no need for a center channel. :D

[Phil Dawson]

I run a pair of cs400is between a pair of 1.2s. This works very well, sounds great and they match pretty well with the 1.2s. I run the 1.2s full range but send the below 80Hz material to the sub. The little fellers can't quite keep up with the big boys on the low end.
Phil

[Mazeroth]

Phil, are you the kicker for the Cleveland Browns? :D