Two channel [Archive]

JBlack

01-20-2005, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by F1nut
Is that 2 or 4 LSi9's? Are you looking for a AVR or a power amp? Any which way you go, you'll need something capable of driving a 4 ohm load.

Two LSI9s. Looking for AVR stereo Amp. Wouldn't that be better than my 5 channel AVR since I don't want surround sound?

Thanks

JBlack

01-20-2005, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by F1nut
Is that 2 or 4 LSi9's? Are you looking for a AVR or a power amp? Any which way you go, you'll need something capable of driving a 4 ohm load.

BTW, would four LSIs sound that much better then two?

RuSsMaN

01-20-2005, 11:16 PM

Slow down hoss.

First of all, what do you HAVE, and what can you spend in the forseable future? If you are going straight 2ch, why use an AVR at all? I would start looking at separates, or an integrated amp.

Second, not saying the Sony doesn't do what it's supposed to at it's price point - but the LSi series is on a much higher audio plane. I see the Sony doing more harm than good.

If you do want to use it, I'd hook it up via a low-level (rca) connection, set the crossover as low as it will go, and maybe add a little more (or replace altogther) damping inside it. As far as placement goes, somewhere between the two main speakers, with the woofer firing to either side - NOT right at you.

Cheers,
Rooster

gatemplin

01-20-2005, 11:22 PM

As much as you can afford. (including the money you get from selling the Sony sub)
:)

I agree. The Sony subs are good for the money (I have two) but the Polks are in another league. I would rather run them straight than with the sony.

Dont get an AVR for those, look for seperates or integrateds for power as Russ said.

And four LSis aren't better for 2ch.

waylyn5945

01-21-2005, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
Slow down hoss.

First of all, what do you HAVE, and what can you spend in the forseable future? If you are going straight 2ch, why use an AVR at all? I would start looking at separates, or an integrated amp.

Second, not saying the Sony doesn't do what it's supposed to at it's price point - but the LSi series is on a much higher audio plane. I see the Sony doing more harm than good.

If you do want to use it, I'd hook it up via a low-level (rca) connection, set the crossover as low as it will go, and maybe add a little more (or replace altogther) damping inside it. As far as placement goes, somewhere between the two main speakers, with the woofer firing to either side - NOT right at you.

Cheers,
Rooster

You can get a pretty good integrated for under $150.00. A Kenwood 9100, Yamaha CA-2010, Onkyo A-8190. :rolleyes:

F1nut

01-21-2005, 04:18 PM

There is no such thing as a good integrated or any power source for under $150.00! :rolleyes:

jdhdiggs

01-21-2005, 05:20 PM

In my mind you should spend at least half of the money you spent on the speakers on the electronics to drive them. $300 on the 9's amplification and pre seems to be the bare minimum in my mind.

Several members here always seems to have a good amp for sale, you might want to look around for good deals on pre's and amps.

JBlack

01-21-2005, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by waylyn5945
You can get a pretty good integrated for under $150.00. A Kenwood 9100, Yamaha CA-2010, Onkyo A-8190. :rolleyes:

thanks for your input. As you can see, I'm a neophyte, but want good sound and am willing to spend more than the average Joe. I'm confused. I thought an AVR is a receiver (tuner, amp, preamp). Isn't that the same as an intergrated?

Thanks

JBlack

01-21-2005, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by jdhdiggs
In my mind you should spend at least half of the money you spent on the speakers on the electronics to drive them. $300 on the 9's amplification and pre seems to be the bare minimum in my mind.

JB] When you say amplification and pre, are you talking about separate units, or a receiver. That's what I would like to have. I currently use an Onkyo TcSR501. I wish I would have known more when I bought it, but I guess I was looking down the road for surround sound. My Onkyo only has 65 watts for each channel.

Several members here always seems to have a good amp for sale, you might want to look around for good deals on pre's and amps.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out.

gatemplin

01-21-2005, 09:00 PM

An integrated is just an amp and preamp.

I thought an AVR is a receiver (tuner, amp, preamp). Isn't that the same as an intergrated?

marker

01-21-2005, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by F1nut
There is no such thing as a good integrated or any power source for under $150.00! :rolleyes:

Actually, maybe. I picked up an open box Onkyo TX-8511 stereo reciever at CC for $100. It is rated at 100 watts X 2 into 8 ohms and is supposed to be able to drive 4 ohm speakers, which I can't verify as I don't have any to test it with. Also, it weighs more than some of Onkyo's lower tier AVRs even though they have 6 or 7 channels.

Admittedly, this receiver is by no means high end, but it's not total crap either. Short of a NAD integrated amp, this is probably as good as it gets for inexpensive amplification for the money in a new purchase with full warranty.

F1nut

01-21-2005, 09:34 PM

We have very different ideas as to what a good power source is.

marker

01-21-2005, 09:43 PM

Well, for $150 or less (especially new with warranty ) that could drive 4 ohm speakers, I don't have any other ideas.

Maybe he could do better on the used market.

Airplay355

01-21-2005, 11:15 PM

much better in the used market, check out www.audiogon.com or post a want to buy in the flea market here, have alittle patience and you will get a kick ass system.

marker

01-22-2005, 12:04 AM

Yeah, but we're only talking about $150 here. You're not exactly going to be able get a McIntosh for that, not even used.

Upon further thought, I seem to remember some Audiosource power amps and preamp/tuners on ubid.com pretty cheap. That might be a possibilty, but for more than $150 though.

Airplay355

01-22-2005, 12:21 AM

who said he needed mcintosh? theres plenty of other used brands on audiogon, and plenty of used brands here in the forum. where did you get the $150 figure from? he said he was willing to "spend more then the average joe". seperates aren't as expensive as you seem to think.

shack

01-22-2005, 12:37 AM

The original poster (JBlack) has never stated what his budget is...the $150 amount came up when someone posted that you could pick up various "vintage" stereo receivers/integrated for that amount. I agree with F1nut that anything purchased for $150 unless it is a truely mint piece of vintage gear will not get the job done....and even then I personally wouldn't waste my money unless I could see, feel, touch ect... the gear first

I agree that the Onkyo might drive the LSI9s but again it is probably still a marginal choice. I have a Denon DRA-685 stereo receiver that can drive the them (MSRP $500 and Denon confirmed it is rated for 4 ohms). It and the Onkyo are probably similar and better than most entry level AVRs but not as good as a stereo integrated/receiver from the likes of NAD, Cambridge or Rotel. I would look there to drive the LSI9s.

marker

01-22-2005, 03:17 AM

I just said Mac as an example of not to expect too much on that limited of a budget, even in the used market.

I do see now where somebody else and not the original poster came up with the $150 figure though. My bad.

I still say though that the Audiosource seperates that ubid always seem to have might be a viable option in that price range though for what he needs.

Also, brand spankin' new HK PA-2000 power amps can be had for less than $200 shipped all day long. They are 100 watts X 2 in bridged mode, but I don't know for sure if they can handle a 4 ohm load while bridged though. Plus HK has some refurbed 2 channel receivers at a cheap price that might would work as well.

JBlack

01-22-2005, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by marker
I just said Mac as an example of not to expect too much on that limited of a budget, even in the used market.

I do see now where somebody else and not the original poster came up with the $150 figure though. My bad.

I still say though that the Audiosource seperates that ubid always seem to have might be a viable option in that price range though for what he needs.

Also, brand spankin' new HK PA-2000 power amps can be had for less than $200 shipped all day long. They are 100 watts X 2 in bridged mode, but I don't know for sure if they can handle a 4 ohm load while bridged though. Plus HK has some refurbed 2 channel receivers at a cheap price that might would work as well.

[JB] Hello Marker, and all you "Polk Folk." I just want to thank you all for taking the time to help steer me in the right direction (what ever it may be at this time:-) I thought you needed less power to push 4 ohms, which the LSI9s are. Anyway, it seems that an integrated (amp/preamp) is the way to go. I can forego the tuner I guess. I presume I should get at least 100 watts perchannel in whatever model I get. Thanks again :-) As an after thought, I wonder what the Polk engineers will do to improve upon the LSI9s, in the same size, if that's possible.

shack

01-22-2005, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by JBlack
I thought you needed less power to push 4 ohms, which the LSI9s are.
Read this thread

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12299

Airplay355

01-22-2005, 12:53 PM

some amps you might want to look at are

Adcom
Rotel
Parasound
AMC
Outlaw
NAD

and the list goes on and on.

phuz

01-22-2005, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by F1nut
There is no such thing as a good integrated or any power source for under $150.00! :rolleyes:

I got my Rotel RB-990BX for $150 :P

Ok so it was luck and a salesman that just wanted to get rid of an older demo piece, but still. You CAN, ya just gotta look reeeeeeeeaaally hard for em!

LuSh

01-22-2005, 08:08 PM

I have no idea why the majority of members on this forum are obsessed with wattage ratings and power amps. The Pre-amp section of a system is much much more important. It the preamp sections of the Rotel and NAD intergrated that are the big step up from common grade.

Wattage isn't as important as you might think.

shack

01-22-2005, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by LuSh
Wattage isn't as important as you might think.
Maybe not...but current is...

LuSh

01-22-2005, 09:19 PM

If you could ever pry the real voltage/current figures from company's then yes. I find using my ears works best.

F1nut

01-22-2005, 10:40 PM

The better companies have no problem providing that info.

LuSh

01-23-2005, 12:18 AM

F1nut

01-23-2005, 12:30 AM

You commented about voltage/current figures and then come back with wpc???

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you about the way some companies "play around" with the specs. What I'm saying is that the better ones give you the info that counts, like the voltage/current figures.

JBlack

01-23-2005, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by shack
Read this thread

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12299

[JB] Thanks, that article explained it well.

JBlack

01-23-2005, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by phuz
I got my Rotel RB-990BX for $150 :P

Ok so it was luck and a salesman that just wanted to get rid of an older demo piece, but still. You CAN, ya just gotta look reeeeeeeeaaally hard for em!

JB] Thanks, Pray that I might be as fortunate as you :-)

waylyn5945

01-26-2005, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by F1nut
We have very different ideas as to what a good power source is.

You are correct, we do. What you think and hear is up to you and what I like might be totally different but sounds just as good to me! I have an Onkyo Integra A-8190. The specs are:
8 ohms - 150 wpc
4 ohms - 235 wpc
2 ohms - 303 wpc
THD - .008
DF - 50

I bought it on ebay for $125.00 and it does everything I want. No, it isn't a McIntosh but I don't want or need a McIntosh!:p

shack

01-26-2005, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by waylyn5945
No, it isn't a McIntosh but I don't want or need a McIntosh!:p
I assume you have spent some quality time with McIntosh gear before making a statement like that. I have. Do I need McIntosh gear...NO. Do I want it...You bet!

waylyn5945

01-26-2005, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by shack
I assume you have spent some quality time with McIntosh gear before making a statement like that. I have. Do I need McIntosh gear...NO. Do I want it...You bet!

No, I have never had the pleasure of listening to McIntosh. My point was, and is, I'm perfectly happy with the Onkyo. Having said that perhaps someday, if I live long enough, and if the right deal comes along, I might buy a Mac. Or, maybe not - depends on what I want. I'm 61 years old, children have left the nest, make a pretty good income as an electrical engineer so I could afford one BUT - just don't want one at this time.:D

F1nut

01-26-2005, 12:25 PM

I use to be happy with a Kenwood receiver, a Sony cdp and some no-name speakers (a long, long time ago) until I heard some true high end gear. Once I did there was no looking back. If you ever do, I think you'll realize what I'm saying.

waylyn5945

01-26-2005, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by F1nut
I use to be happy with a Kenwood receiver, a Sony cdp and some no-name speakers (a long, long time ago) until I heard some true high end gear. Once I did there was no looking back. If you ever do, I think you'll realize what I'm saying.

Point taken...thank you.

LuSh

01-28-2005, 01:14 AM

It's funny cuz many high-ender consider McIntosh to be the "Bose" of high end audio.

F1nut regardless of what you say, I would never regard an amp based on spec's. Besides the preamp section of a system if much more important. I don't think many people consider it as much because like CD players you have to use your ears, and not rely on spec's.

F1nut

01-28-2005, 02:59 AM

Lush, I couldn't agree more. I do, however like to see (confirm) the voltage/current figures when checking out amps other than that, the ears are the real test of any gear.

marly421

01-17-2006, 12:25 PM

You are correct, we do. What you think and hear is up to you and what I like might be totally different but sounds just as good to me! I have an Onkyo Integra A-8190. The specs are:
8 ohms - 150 wpc
4 ohms - 235 wpc
2 ohms - 303 wpc
THD - .008
DF - 50

I bought it on ebay for $125.00 and it does everything I want. No, it isn't a McIntosh but I don't want or need a McIntosh!:p

Where on earth did you get these spec's? I've been looking at the A-8190 and what I got was 100WPC @ .005 with 8 Ohm load. Never heard it could handle a 2 Ohm load at all and the DF ranged from 30 to 60.

Do you have the manual or an Onkyo spec sheet on it?

George Grand

01-17-2006, 01:01 PM

I'd check to see if that Onkyo TX-8511 was full frequency bandwidth. I wouldn't be surprised if it was rated from only 40-20K instead of 20-20K.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

unc2701

01-17-2006, 01:43 PM

The Simaudio i-3 intergrated amp retails for $2200 US and is rated at 100wpc....the SimAudio i-5 intergrated amp retails for $3000 US and is rated at 70wpc, every single person that has reviewed both items agree that the i-5 is a much much more powerfull intergrated.

Yeah, but you're getting into apples & oranges. The i-5 is class A. Most the gear out there is gonna be class AB and if you can get accurate specs on the wattage and current, then it is a useful tool. Not as useful as your ears, but the i-5 vs i-3 isn't a very good example.

Flash21

01-17-2006, 03:40 PM

I got my Rotel RB-990BX for $150 :P

Ok so it was luck and a salesman that just wanted to get rid of an older demo piece, but still. You CAN, ya just gotta look reeeeeeeeaaally hard for em!
Wow, that's an awesome price on a great amp...I used to have one, just sold it a couple of months ago for $475 shipped...of course it was in mint condition, but still. Even at that price I think it is a great value - you have to spend a lot more to better it sonically.

Flash21

01-17-2006, 03:48 PM

some amps you might want to look at are

Adcom
Rotel
Parasound
AMC
Outlaw
NAD

and the list goes on and on.
An excellent list, I agree wholeheartedly. Maybe Cambridge too?

LuSh

01-17-2006, 05:27 PM

unc2701: I have no idea where you have gotten your info but its wrong. The SimAudio Moon I-5 is not class A. It is infact class A/B with the first 5 watts being produced in class A, then switching to class B...the point is you'll never get accurate figures from anybody. It's all left to marketing people. It's easy to twist numbers, Japan started this years ago in HiFi back in the late 70's early 80's.

I have a SimAudio I-5080 for sale, I'd like to sell it locally though...if interested email me.

unc2701

01-17-2006, 05:55 PM

Sure enough! huh... could have sworn that it was pure class A. My bad- guess the main difference is the dual-mono design. Anyhow, the i-5080 has a HT pass, but no phono stage, right?

jmierzur

01-17-2006, 06:05 PM

The SimAudio Moon I-5 is not class A. It is infact class A/B with the first 5 watts being produced in class A, then switching to class B...

Just to clarify, Moon Classic products produce their first (5, 10 or 20) watts in class A, then switch to class AB.

I do not know of any audio amps that are pure class B.