Monitor 10

[msjohns]

A while back I bought a pair of monitor 10's from spasticpitbull ( Paul ). Well good old UPS managed to damage them on their trip to South Dakota. They had dropped them, all the drivers were froze up . Well I got my new drivers today and man do they sound great. I want to thank Paul for sticking with me through this ordeal, we got UPS to pay for the new drivers. I also want to thank Ken at Polk for the help he gave me. We managed to save a good pair of speakers. I also learned that that Polk Club members do take care of each other. Thanks again.

Mike

[dorokusai]

You're damn right....glad you can listen again.

[nadams]

Glad you got anything out of UPS... usually you'd be hard-pressed to get anything of value back from them.

Enjoy em!

[outlander]

msjohns,
I was wondering what you meant by the speakers froze up? I bought a pair of 10B’s from ebay and FedEx trashed mine. They ended dropping one of the boxes in my garage and cracking the cabinet. To make a long story short I ended up with $100.00 because no value was claimed by the shipper even though I had paid him for insurance. Anyway, what did UPS give you for a settlement and what does froze up mean?
O

[Pauly]

Originally posted by outlander
msjohns,
I was wondering what you meant by the speakers froze up? I bought a pair of 10B’s from ebay and FedEx trashed mine. They ended dropping one of the boxes in my garage and cracking the cabinet. To make a long story short I ended up with $100.00 because no value was claimed by the shipper even though I had paid him for insurance. Anyway, what did UPS give you for a settlement and what does froze up mean?
O

Exaclty how it sounds...the Mids froze up and dont work anymore. Those mids tend to do that during shipping. Lesson learned here guys. Thought i packed them puppies pretty darn good...DONT risk it. Pull the drivers out and box up seperate.

BTW Mike the check is on its way for the replacements. Still waiting on the the paperwork from UPS and snap some pics so i can see the old beauties

Pauly

[outlander]

You learn something new every day, never heard of the mids freezing up. I guess I lucked out because the mids seem fine on mine but I did lose a tweeter. Good luck on the refund check. FedEx put me through hell and still screwed me. It was the worst case of customer service I’ve ever experienced.
0

[msjohns]

Well I have been enjoying the speakers for a couple weeks now. They sound great , I am impressed. I never used to beleive that new speakers needed a break in period, but I do now. The new drivers are sounding better and better every time I use them. I replaced a pair of Marantz HD 770 with the Monitor 10's. The Marantz speakers need to have the woofers refoamed. That will be another project for later. I agree with Paul, if you have to ship speakers like the Monitor 10's remove the drivers and package them seperately.

[Shizelbs]

Glad to hear your positive experience. Way to get some vintage Polk away from the eastern seaboard.

[discomixman]

I must say since I have had my Polk Model 10B Speakers the
sound is just as good as the Day that I bought them.I must
say that these speakers were way ahead of their time in
terms of Technical innovation and design.How did Polk
do it.For you people that have never heard the Polk Model
10B, you've got to Sample a listen from them, the sound is
Mind boggleing,Great.These Speakers,the Polk 10B's were
digital ready before I even bought a CD Player.Now that
I have a DVD player that I run through my Stereo,a Digital
Sansui Integrated Amplifier,AU-G77X, with X Balanced
Amplification the Stereo sound with Dolby Surround is really
Three Dimensional.It is something I have never heard.I had
these speakers for over Ten years and they continue to
surprise me with Different Psychoaccoutical effects.Lets
face it a Stereo is only as good as the Speakers that
delivers the Stereo Sound.These Speakers are the Best
I have heard.I'am a Disco D.J. and the Disco Music runs
the Accoustical spectrum to its Limits,the Polks handle
every Record and CD that We play.By the way,being that
Polk does not make the Model10B anymore,does any one
Know How much they a Valued at?.What would be a
auction Price for a Pair of Polk Audio Model 10B? does
anybody have the current Price for these Classic
Speakers?.Get back to me Please.

Truly.
Discomixman.

[sbilderb]

You should hear my 10 B's, I bought them new in 1976 but, like everything else I own, I've modified them a bit. I've replaced the tweeter with a pair for EV Century 100 Monitors (haven't blown one since and the EV's sound better than the originals), out with the passive crossover, bi-amped them and drive them with all custom built/designed top end electronics.
Put on a vinyl recording of a string quartet or even a good vocal recording on CD and it makes you melt into a little puddle on the floor. Any final products from the recording studio, I always take it home and listen on my Polks before I call it done.
I've listened to almost every speaker built and I have not found anything that sounds smoother through the vocal spectrum than my 10 B's.

A simple modification you might want to try to sweeten the high frequencies of the vintage Polks. If you are handy, remove the crossover from inside the cabinet and along side each of the large electrolytic capacitors, solder on a .05-uf to .01-uf capacitor and you will hear the difference.
Why it works? The electrolytic are a coil of metal film, chokes (like the copper coils next to the electrolytic) block high frequencies, so the small capacitors allow a more linear flow of the frequencies above 5khz that the electrolytic inherently filter out.

[nadams]

Would it not be even better, then, to remove the electrolytic caps altogether? From what I'm reading in your post, you're just saying to solder the new caps in with the old ones... Seems that if what you're saying is true, you should replace the cap completely.

I've never heard of anyone doing these modifications to their 10b's, but if it sounds as good as you say it does, perhaps someone with a spare pair would want to give it a shot. I try to steer clear of hacking my Polks.... But I'm not that handy with a soldering iron.

[dorokusai]

Originally posted by sbilderb
A simple modification you might want to try to sweeten the high frequencies of the vintage Polks. If you are handy, remove the crossover from inside the cabinet and along side each of the large electrolytic capacitors, solder on a .05-uf to .01-uf capacitor and you will hear the difference.
Why it works? The electrolytic are a coil of metal film, chokes (like the copper coils next to the electrolytic) block high frequencies, so the small capacitors allow a more linear flow of the frequencies above 5khz that the electrolytic inherently filter out.

BS.

[TroyD]

Hunter 'em up if you want to.

Personally, if I don't like the sound of what the speaker is, I would find one that I do. Seems like in the above scenario, there would be a radical change in sound.

Minor tweaking, sure, but I'll pass on the Franken-Polk concept.

If you like 'em though, rock on.

BDT

[nadams]

TroyD- nice of you to water it down when doro came out and said what you were thinking :p

[TroyD]

Hey, if you think you know better than the person who designed the speaker, who am I to argue.

I'll only say that it's not my bag.

BDT

[sbilderb]

If the cap are 10 years old or more you might think of replacing them with new ones of the exact same value, they are part of a tuned circuit. Just solder the small caps in parallel to the electrolytic; the value of the small caps will not affect the crossover points.
By the way I have had many years in the high-end audio biz including speaker design I can and have improved on other peoples design, the difference is, I don't have to make it cost effective for mass production or make it a marketable product - just one of a kind custom units.

[dorokusai]

You can certainly improve some speakers, that's a given....I agree in that respect.

However, I would replace the entire component rather than parallel a new component on the board. I think a cap upgrade is a worthy venture, in addition to resistors and inductors, depending on the project but remember that these speakers are not that old. I think it's a great project to tackle, but I don't hop into the fray and recommend something in a generic fashion as a "fix" or "upgrade".

I've seen bleeding caps in very old speakers and some that are still kicking after many years of owner abuse. I've also heard negative results from board changes in that the result was not quite what was expected and sometimes the speaker simply wasn't the speaker it used to be....and that's not always positive. If you are into speaker design, I'm sure you've had disappointment as well as success, it comes with the territory.

Mass produced speakers use cost effective parts, again, a no brainer....they were also designed in a way to get the most performance given the parameters of the overall design. End result is end result.....consumers buy these things all the time at face value.

You may have improved the speaker in your opinion, or another individuals', but that doesn't make it a fact. As far as the "many years" comment goes, I personally could care less....and it doesn't really change anything.

[sbilderb]

TroyD
It does radically change the sound . . . all for the better! The mods did nothing to the coupling of the drivers to the cabinet so the frequency response of the lows and the mids are unchanged and the electronic crossover let's me fine-tune the crossover point and the audio level of the tweeters.

Another easier mod (or maintainance) that can/might slightly increase the low-end response is to check the gaskets behind the drivers, the cabinet needs to be as air tight as possible. With the speaker unplugged or off carefully press on the center of the passive radiator and watch how the drivers move. They should move out and then slowly back in, if they return quickly, its time re-tighten the driver screws or replace the gaskets. Those screws can work themselves loose with time.

You might ask why I do this? I've put these Polk up against speakers up to the $5,000.00 range, they may not win in the low-end department but they hold their own the rest of the way up - and I say, that is way coooooooool!

[nadams]

It would be nice if you would stop talking to us like we're new to this...

[TroyD]

Blah Blah Blah Blah.....

Again, you are no longer listening to a true Monitor 10.

Which 5K speaker are you talking about? It must REALLY suck.

Well said, I'm not an idiot, I'm more than able to form my own opinions as are others. We don't need to be talked down to.

BDT

[sbilderb]

dorokusai

If you are happy with what you have, GREAT! They are good right out of the box.

I admit, I'm an audio snob, my work required that I become one, and at times it's a curse. Modifying components is not for everyone, but I will post it for those that might want to give it a try.

Replacing the electrolytic will not correct the inherit fault with it's physical design, new one will have the same design. Some of the large caps will have up to 5 square feet of surface area to create the needed values and the only way to make the fit in anything is by coiling them up. The small caps pass the audio signal that the coiling process loses.

[sbilderb]

I'm sorry if you think I'm talking down to you, that is not my intension, but there are other readers on this post that might find my information useful, if it is not for you I'm happy with that. I had no idea that people on this post would feel threatened by someone that knows more than them.

[dorokusai]

I'm not threatened at all, but you are giving out generic information in regards to "improvements".

Explain, in detail, why you would piggyback a new component on an old component. That whole premise is ridiculous. There is a reason to inline board components, and it certainly isn't because of sound improvement.....its to meet design values.

You're off base and generalizing actual application theory.

[TroyD]

eh...whatever.

Enjoy your FrankenPolks.

Big Dumb (but VERY threatened) Troy

[sbilderb]

The high frequency bypass of electrolytic is a common mod done universally in the high-end biz, not only to crossovers but to all electronics requiring electrolytic components. Most of the newer high-end passive crossovers come this way right from the factory; it's bringing the older components up the newer technology. It's that simple and it works.

I installed a performance chip and a turbo-charger in my VW; does that mean I don't drive a Volkswagen any more? Maybe, to a hard core purists.

[TroyD]

Look, cochise, If you enjoy your speakers, fine.

However, there is a difference between 'tweaking' and fundamentally altering the speaker and in your case, IMO, you have done the latter. It may sound better to you, but there are those of us to whom it makes no sense for various reasons.

There is also the underlying premise that you are empirically 'right' while I may happen to think that what you have done altered the sound for the worse (which I think is usually the case for radically altered off the shelf designs and the only person who thinks that it sounds better is the one who altered the speaker). Now, had you said: 'This is what I did, why I did it and why I think it sounds better' and left it at that, fine.

I also take issue with the premise that a Monitor 10 of any sort is going to compare with a 5K pair of speakers. Sorry, I'm just not going to buy that particular line of reasoning unless the 5K pair of speakers is a really awful pair. Not a knock on the Monitor 10, it's a great speaker but it's not as good as the Monitor 7's and I wouldn't make such a comparison with those, either.

BDT

[dorokusai]

Originally posted by sbilderb
The high frequency bypass of electrolytic is a common mod done universally in the high-end biz, not only to crossovers but to all electronics requiring electrolytic components. Most of the newer high-end passive crossovers come this way right from the factory; it's bringing the older components up the newer technology. It's that simple and it works.

I installed a performance chip and a turbo-charger in my VW; does that mean I don't drive a Volkswagen any more? Maybe, to a hard core purists.

Nope, sorry, see you later....nice try.

[BlueMDPicker]

As a caveat, I'll state the fact that I have NOT seen a schematic for the 10B crossover. That being said, I have studied the crossover of the SDA SRS to the point that I believe I understand the design concept.

The HF circuitry of that model does employ paralleled caps - a 750 pF silver mica over a 12 uF electrolytic, and an identical silver mica and 4.4 uF electrolytic over a 22.5 ohm resistor to T3 - not, I believe, to achieve a modified value. Rather, their purpose seems to be a bypass to allow desired speed response for the HF.

Perhaps of interest to those contemplating the cap/resistor upgrade to the SRS, which DarqueKnight documented so completely for the forum, is the fact he doesn't mention replacing the silver mica caps.

Looks like Matt was (again) well ahead of his time with the design if

Originally posted by sbilderb
The high frequency bypass of electrolytic is a common mod done universally in the high-end biz...

[sbilderb]

>. . .you have done the latter. It may sound better to you, but there are those of
> us to whom it makes no sense for various reasons.

May I kindly say that if it makes no sense to you, maybe you should hold your judgment until it does. If you try to prove your point based on self-imposed ignorance you'll never win or learn. I not a kid in the basement just tossing stuff together, there are years of design and testing to support each project. If you have evidence to any error on my part I'll gladly address it.

Over the years I have set my Polk’s up on a one-on-one comparison to the many of B&W line, Magniplainers, JBL and EV studio line and many more. Once the passive crossovers are bypassed, it is amazing how smooth the mids are - up to 120 db at three feet, and the low starts rolling off about 10 db per octave at 75 hertz (not so good if you like techno). FYI: not one of my components can be bought at Best Buy or Circuit City, which also can make a big difference.

[nadams]

We can pass judgement whenever we damn well please. I passed some judgement a few minutes ago, as a matter of fact..

Anyway, it doesn't make sense because you're leaving the old components in the signal path. If you want to put different caps in, replace them completely, don't just add on.

Saying that we can't make a judgement call until it makes sense to us is saying that we're not allowed to disagree with you. That's not what this is all about....

[Tour2ma]

Originally posted by sbilderb
I admit, I'm an audio snob, my work required that I become one, and at times it's a curse. ... and it's the arrogance that's coming through to which people are reacting.

Since you recognize it, just contain it and persuade without the self-aggrandizing commentary.

[sbilderb]

Sorry I didn't get the memo stating that you were the spokesman representing the opinions of all the other readers.

It is not arrogance on my part but ignorance on yours, a poor attempt at unsubstantiated character defamation to gain an upper hand in an argument instead of intelligently covering the points is question should be reserved for junior high students. You big poopy head!

[Tour2ma]

Nevermind... hopeless case.

[nadams]

I felt compelled to post something here... and it's simply that I'm walking away.

This thread has wasted enough of everyone's time. (since it got derailed, that is)

[steveinaz]

FYI

Anytime you ship speakers, put a shorting wire across the +/- terminals. This reduces cone movement in transit, an old trick taught to me years ago.

[nadams]

Originally posted by steveinaz
FYI

Anytime you ship speakers, put a shorting wire across the +/- terminals. This reduces cone movement in transit, an old trick taught to me years ago.

Right, it cancels out the voltages generated by the bouncing drivers, thereby causing the voice coil to resist movement in the magnetic field. DUH! :)

[TroyD]

Originally posted by sbilderb
>. . .you have done the latter. It may sound better to you, but there are those of
> us to whom it makes no sense for various reasons.

May I kindly say that if it makes no sense to you, maybe you should hold your judgment until it does. If you try to prove your point based on self-imposed ignorance you'll never win or learn. I not a kid in the basement just tossing stuff together, there are years of design and testing to support each project. If you have evidence to any error on my part I'll gladly address it.

Over the years I have set my Polk’s up on a one-on-one comparison to the many of B&W line, Magniplainers, JBL and EV studio line and many more. Once the passive crossovers are bypassed, it is amazing how smooth the mids are - up to 120 db at three feet, and the low starts rolling off about 10 db per octave at 75 hertz (not so good if you like techno). FYI: not one of my components can be bought at Best Buy or Circuit City, which also can make a big difference.

Man, how did I miss THIS particular pantload?

I'm assuming that his job doesn't have an aggresive drug screening program.

Keep practicing cochise, it' s the only way to make it to Carnegie Hall.

BDT

[RuSsMaN]

"Magniplainers"

This guy knows his ****!

[TroyD]

Hey, not ONE of his components can be bought at CC or BB

BDT

[steveinaz]

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
"Magniplainers"

This guy knows his ****!

That's the plain version of the Magneplanar line...LOL

[billbillw]

Originally posted by steveinaz
That's the plain version of the Magneplanar line...LOL

This thread is almost as amusing as when George went off on Phuz.

[marly421]

Sorry I didn't get the memo stating that you were the spokesman representing the opinions of all the other readers
Sbilderb, thank you for the good stuff, we are listening. Most are real help in here but there are five members that feel they are running this forum (and more) and three of them are mouthing off on this tread.

They always have bad attitudes and similar intention. I take no heed in a thing they say and you shouldn’t either.

For myself I simply picture them standing in front of their computer, putting a Michael Jackson move on their Johnson with one hand and doing a deep nose probe with the other. After that…nothing matters in what they say. Welcome to forum BTW

[danger boy]

Originally posted by marly421
there are five members that feel they are running this forum (and more) and three of them are mouthing off on this tread.

yeah guys. shape up or ship out! :p

this forum is for everyone who loves Polk Audio speakers. that's what brings us together. Beyond just what Polk offers... a great deal on some really good speakers. Polk gives us this forum where we can trade info, learn, help, and become good friends some of us.

Sometimes riffs come up.. and get out of hand. but for the most part... everyone in here is pretty cool. If you're not cool... then with communicating with other people about the many topics covered here.. then.. you may not feel welcome. You get out of this forum what you put into it. Participate in a discussion and you'll not only learn something new.. you'll meet some good quality people as well.

Bottom line.. most people in here are just playing with you. Don't take anything personally, or take offense to it. Often times it's just a simple misunderstanding.

peace

[PolkFreak]

FYI, Polk didn't make the 10B in 1976. It was the 10 then 10A.
Sbilderb, I think you are suffering from some type of social isolation. You thought Doro, TroyD, or other members commenting on your posts were threatened and claimed to know more than everyone. It is impossible for you to understand and measure the scope of who these people are and the amount of knowledge that they have accumulated over their lifetime by a few posts on this forum. To claim you know more than them when you don't know them is completely irrational as are your suggestions. You basically changed the whole composition of the way the speakers were intended to sound. Doro pointed out the flaws of what you were saying plain and simple. It is completely natural for you to defend your sinking ship as your claims don't hold definitive water. I don't think you realize that you are swimming at this moment because Doro just sank your battleship! I think your speaker mod suggestions are in line with mine. I rewired my SDA 2A's with heavier wire and pulled out some of the polyfill and made an exaggerated claim that my speakers sounded better. I also replaced my original MW6510 drivers with the MW6503 driver because the MW6503 drivers were the ones from Polks TOP SDA SRS speaker. The MW6510 and MW6503 drivers at different times went in cabinets of the exact same size and were always matched with the same SL2000 tweeters. Now the crossovers probably aren't matching for the MW6503 to blend with the tweeter in that SIZE cabinet that they are in. The crossovers are set to blend with MW6510, but I emailed polk and found out that the difference between the MW6510 driver and the 6503 driver is very small. Ken said they have different motor strength and the MW6503 goes 2Hz lower than the MW6510. It is apparent to me that the motor strength of the MW6503 driver is higher than the MW6510. Anyway, motor strength and the FR were the two things that needed to be the closest for my 2A's to sound right. Even though the difference is so small the bass sounds much deeper to ME. My friend who is very subjective also noticed the bass improvement. I can have the bass set to zero like it should be and have more bass than the MW6510. I could distort the bass to +8 or +10 with MW6510 and still not hear the amount of bass I hear with the 6503. The difference SEEMS to be night and day. I like the midrange better too. Which brings me to my polyfill adjustment in which I cut out some of the polyfill and rolled it up in a block shape to have the upper cabinet evenly filled just above the drivers. I also put a square piece at the base of the cabinet. The rest of the cabinet is empty so there is none behind the drivers and so on. Before that the cabinet was filled wall to wall with polyfill. The drivers were blocked off from the passive radiator. I was wondering how the passive radiator could absorb the sound from the drivers with being completely blocked off from them with the polyfill? The PR is still relieving the cabinet pressure from the drivers otherwise it wouldn't be moving. The polyfill IMO muffled the midrange. It was like I had a pillow over the drivers. My Monitor 7C's and 5 JR++ came with the polyfill just above the drivers and none behind or below the rest of the cabinet was empty. This isn't what gave me the idea though. I just wanted the sound to be forced down to the PR of my SDA's.

All of this is an example of individual perception.
We all are looking at the same things and have to learn and remember them. That is the basics of learning like your a-b-c's
are all of the building blocks of words that we use to form English
weather it be good or bad. The extent of your vocabulary is the
extent of your communication level and how much you understand as a whole. Their is a specific way of looking at things and everyone looks at them different due to their upbringing and environment as well as genetics. All things aside from the real facts are a matter of opinion. Some people form irrational opinions around their lack of facts. People can fear something because they don't understand it. That is why they say , "fear is not an option" because fear destroys all options. If you were driving a car and heading toward something and all you had to do was go left or right and instead chose fear as your option and in a state of panic made no decision to go left or right you would crash the car. Lets hear it for fear the option killer!!! The Option less option! So my lack of understanding and inability to see the facts of how my speaker is working has formed my silly opinion. I told Doro to replace his polyfill in his SDA's with underwear and socks. His mistake was putting DIRTY underwear and socks in his SDA's and it made his sound muddy. I told him he should do that laundry and it would clean up his sound. :D Just a little bit of an inside joke!

[billbillw]

Polkfreak,
You must have some time on your hands. Go watch some basketball and drink a green beer or something.

[dorokusai]

Excellent post Polkfreak, regardless of my involvement it is a breath of fresh air to read.

EDIT: I appreciate your kind comments, but I'm just a Polk junkie, and still learn a couple things about Polk from time to time.

P.S. - I found that one clean sock and one dirty sock is actually key to the success of that idea ;)

Cheers!

[TroyD]

Originally posted by marly421
Sbilderb, thank you for the good stuff, we are listening. Most are real help in here but there are five members that feel they are running this forum (and more) and three of them are mouthing off on this tread.

They always have bad attitudes and similar intention. I take no heed in a thing they say and you shouldn’t either.

For myself I simply picture them standing in front of their computer, putting a Michael Jackson move on their Johnson with one hand and doing a deep nose probe with the other. After that…nothing matters in what they say. Welcome to forum BTW

Awwwwwwww....my feelings are hurt.

<<......she's just a girl who thinks that I am the one....but the kid is not my son...>>

BDT

[shack]

I found marly421's post interesting. I went back and looked at his 30 prior posts to see what got his panties in a wad...and guess what....in over half of those he is getting good, friendly advice from the likes of Doro, F1, Tour and I believe even Russman chimed in with some help on a post. I assume these members are part of the "GANG OF FIVE" he is referring to. I noticed he used the word "thanks" quite often...but I couldn't really find where he has offered any help to anyone else...just an observation.....

[F1nut]

sbilderb, you've listened to almost every speaker made, eh? Now, that is some funny stuff! Any chance you wear a mask and a cape too? :rolleyes:



I'm taking back any help I offered to you marly, so there. Nah, nanah, nanah, nah.

[dorokusai]

It's funny how those that hate, don't participate.

If I am in that "Five", fantastic, because I actually care about this forum. I respect the individuals that visit this forum, provided they not visit to simply sell something...as that's just lame.

Marly, please continue with your rhetoric, as it's nothing new. You folks have come and gone...with nary a helpful tidbit to share....just negative comments about the forum and its members.

We care about this forum, do you?

[reeltrouble1]

Originally posted by sbilderb
Sorry I didn't get the memo stating that you were the spokesman representing the opinions of all the other readers.

It is not arrogance on my part but ignorance on yours, a poor attempt at unsubstantiated character defamation to gain an upper hand in an argument instead of intelligently covering the points is question should be reserved for junior high students. You big poopy head!

Memorandum


Date: March 18, 2005

To: sbilderb

From: Club Polk Forum

Subject: Spokesperson


Tour2ma is spokesperson.

Have a nice day.

RT1

[nadams]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!! :D

[PolkFreak]

Dorokusai, thank you for the comment! I'd also like to say congratulations on making marly421's list of the FANTASTIC 5 buttholes.;) I wouldn't mind having a virtual green beer with the people who made it on the list. :D

Had to edit to replace the "a" word with the "B" word :D
It looks "clean" now. Also ment to say , "the people who made it on the list". Not, "made the list".