Ive decided

[spwuinmk67]

When my next paycheck comes, so like 2 weeks, I'm ordering the MB Quart Q's. I told the guys I usually get stuff from, they said around $500, so I said, I'm doin it. No more debating. Just wanted to let you guys know. Probably gonna be getting a new amp too, maybe the Hifonics ZX6400. I know I'm getting at least $700 for this half of the pay period, we'll see how the rest goes before I decide about the amp. And I'll make sure to give lots of pics and reviews.

[exalted512]

you know how i feel:)
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

And I gave you my answer, 2 weeks to persuade me. Same Price range, maybe a little higher, not much.

[Josh]

Polk SR6500's:) ...Oh wait, can't get them yet.

[aussieaustin]

what are you talking about? You dont know crap. Get off the message board if you aren't going to say anything productive!!!!

[neomagus00]

you are aware that this is one of the guys that helps make this company, right? note 'polk installer' under his name? yeah, that's there for a reason...

[dakotaboy]

Obviously aussie just doesn't know what hes talking about!

[spwuinmk67]

Originally posted by Josh
Polk SR6500's:) ...Oh wait, can't get them yet.

How bout I just send the money directly to you guys, and you guys send me the first set? :D :p

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by Josh
Polk SR6500's:) ...Oh wait, can't get them yet.

Quit teasin'!! Im dying already to hear these things!! :(

SP - first off, you need a shorter name! ;)
Second, youre gonna love those Q's. I envy ya!

Word of advice tho, get the best amp you can cause these speakers are good enough that they will make any weakness in your amps very obvious.

[spwuinmk67]

Originally posted by MacLeod
[BSP - first off, you need a shorter name! ;)
[/B]

How bout Bill? Amps I'm not certain about yet, the hifnoics was an idea.

[exalted512]

i told you what speakers id get...
-Cody

[Toxis]

Man, I stay away from mobile for not even a year and look what happens. People are putting Q's on Hifonics? That's like putting Utopia's on Pyle's or Legacy's. I honestly hope someone bought out Hifonics and did some SERIOUS reengineering on them because for the past 10+ years, Hifonics hasn't been anything worthy of a speaker except $50 subs and $20 coax's.

[exalted512]

HiFonics is a solid amp. I like em.
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

The amp I'm still not sure on. Hifonics was an idea, I've looked at some others, like US-Amps. Quick question though, whats the difference between tube amps versus regular amps.

[neomagus00]

tube amps are generally the 'audiophile standard'... they are generally accepted to have a warmer sound, but they run hotter, less efficiently, and with more distortion at a given power than a standard solid state amp. in addition, they're delicate and must have the tubes replaced on occasion. in all, a great choice to try out in the home, but rarely used in the car.

[mbdyer12]

If anything, I'd say Hifonics is worth putting on $300 speakers. Theres been no real complaints about hifonics besides maybe that they're "overrated," and I'm not sure thats been proven....

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by spwuinmk67
The amp I'm still not sure on. Hifonics was an idea, I've looked at some others, like US-Amps. Quick question though, whats the difference between tube amps versus regular amps.

Tubes are more expensive and more fragile.

There is no difference in the sound other than maybe power and distortion levels. All amps sound the same. Some have more power, more headroom and less distortion but tonally they sound the same. One amp will not have a "warmer" sound or "tighter bass" over another amp.


When picking an amp, choose on build quality, features and price.

[spwuinmk67]

I just don't know. I've talked to a lot of people about speakers, not so many about amps. So I'm just kinda lookin around, reading, asking for ideas, etc.

[MacLeod]

Thats cool. Dont misunderstand. There are major differences between amps, just not TONALLY. A lead guitar on a $550 Xtant will sound exactly like a lead guitar on a $150 Profile. The differnce will be that the Xtant will have lower distortion and more headroom and so it will be more detailed. It will also have much much better build quality with beefier power suppiles and so on.

So you should still buy the best amp you can get. Just dont get bogged down in the "those X amps are too bright" or "X amps are much warmer and have tighter bass", cause they dont.

[spwuinmk67]

Yeah, I know that all amps are tonally the same. I've hung out here enough, as well as check out some other forums. So without goin too crazy, any ideas?

[exalted512]

the amp for my components next go around will be a tube amp. well its actually a hybrid tube amp thats much better suited to ca. its the usamps tu-600. im very interested in how they sound. everyone says they have a "warmer" sound and im curious as to hear what that might be. ive heard a tube amp before but i wasnt really able to do a direct comparison like i will be able to do in the new truck.
my mind is made up on that amp. its the sub amp that i again have no idea what im going to go with. at first i was going to go with the de-3000. but then the ratings changed as well as the price. both for the worst. it was 3000x1@2 ohms. now its 3000x1@1.5. the new DD amp theyre coming out with was the next choice since it does 2600x1@2. This amp is a total haus and im not completely sure why. straight from Jeff's email. "The price runs $5395.00, and the thing is big. The current version is 24"
long, weighs about 42 lbs, and stands 4.3" HIGH, AND 9.5" WIDE."
Its also way out of my price range. So I'm back to thinking about back to the DE-3000. I'd like to stick with the DEs because of their 90, yes 90% efficiency. I might go with dual ab's again though. Like 2 AX-1000s or something which'll give me 1300watts at 4 ohms. They have an ab amp that does 2400x1@2 which could work as well. Its called the 2000HC. damping factor of >1000...HOLY CHIT!!
anyway, sorry for taking over your post...
btw, id get the dyns i showed you over the quarts...
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Speakers I will spend $1000's on. Amps I cant justify more than $500 unless its in the kilowatt range.

That being said, as everybody knows, MTX and Crossfire are my favorites in the sub $400 range. Theyre built like a tank and make tons of power cleanly with lots of headroom. I prefer Crossfire simply because they are a little more rare than MTX.

In the upper leagues, I like Xtant most of all. Plenty of features, superb build quality and makes very strong, clean power and they look cool as hell.

Same with Alpine V12's. They also are built well, not as well as the Xtant but very solid. They also arent quite as powerful as Xtant but are just as clean. They also have tons of features.

JL Audio Slash amps are top end for me as well. The best crossover network on the market, tons of clean power and decent looks. What I dont like about them is theyre fully regulated so they lack the headroom Xtant, MTX and Crossfire has.

Other honorable mentions would be Orion, Polk, Coustic, Kicker and Arc Audio.

So in summary:
$400 and below:
1- Crossfire
2- MTX
3- JL Audio E series
4- Kicker

$400 and above
1- Xtant
2- Alpine V12
3- JL Audio Slash series
4- Orion

[spwuinmk67]

Hey cody, you have that link again? I didn't save it, I was too tired when you showed me them...lol. Two amps that i've kinda looked at are the Hifonics ZX6400 and US-Amps US-4300X. Still gotta keep lookin into other options.

[exalted512]

what link would that be?
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

nevermind, it was for the dyn's, but I found them...

[Toxis]

Originally posted by MacLeod
There is no difference in the sound other than maybe power and distortion levels. All amps sound the same. Some have more power, more headroom and less distortion but tonally they sound the same. One amp will not have a "warmer" sound or "tighter bass" over another amp. Please tell me there's some sort of sarcasm here. If you honestly mean that, you have a world of knowledge a head of you my friend. To say this honestly is the same as saying there's no difference in sound between headunits, or cables. You amplifier plays a huge roll in the sound, just below the speakers themselves. Well, I guess this is mobile so I'll have to say placement/setup is just under the speakers but you get my idea.

[neomagus00]

i think he forgot an important qualifier, that being 'above a certain point'. that is, amps will sound better up to a point, but beyond that, the only differences worth paying for are in powersupply, etc. clearly, a twelve dollar 1000 watt amp is going to sound like shizz, if it doesn't light your car on fire first. but, the tonal difference between an $800 and a $2000 1000 watt amp are generally below the level of human hearing, and so the only reason to spend the extra $1200 - other than the name on the amp - is powersupply quality, etc.

does that make sense?

oh, and this ignores the tube amps, cause there is, for some reason, still argument about this. i'm not sure why it isn't blindingly obvious one way or the other, but i haven't heard a tube amp, so...

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by Toxis
To say this honestly is the same as saying there's no difference in sound between headunits, or cables. Wait, you're serious about this? Without using any built-in processing, I'd like to see Anyone tell a difference in the sound between HU's. Just a few threads ago, I believe it was Justin (a polk installer) who said that he couldn't even hear a difference between Denon and something like panasonic or sony.
As far as cables, granted, there is a ton of difference in noise rejection, and I think that's what you are talking about. However, there is no difference in the "sound" of cables. No cable is "warmer" than any other, etc.
Just making sure I understand what you're talking about.
-Austin

[MacLeod]

No sarcasm intended. I stand by my statement.

Dont misunderstand me though, Im not saying all amps SOUND the same because some amps are more powerful and can produce more detail, they will have less distortion and so on and can change the sound.

What Im saying is that TONALLY they all sound the same.

Take my previous amp, a $150 Alpine and my current amp the $380 Crossfire. When I hooked the Crossfire up to the same speakers Id been listening to my Alpine on for over a year, I heard no difference at all except for more detail due to the substantial increase in power and headroom in my Crossfire. The Crossfire also had less distortion and made screechy guitar solos a little less screechy.

Proof? Ever heard of the $10,000 amp challenge ran by Richard Clark of Carsound and Performance Magazine? Its a blind test and all you have to do is listen to music thru the same set of speakers coming from different amps and choose the different amp and you win the 10 grand. Simple huh? In the decade or so Clark has had this challenge standing, NOBODY has collected the check.

Again, Im not saying that you should ditch the Xtant for the Jensen. There are tons of differences and advantages in higher end amps in power, build quality, distortion, power supplies and so on. Just none tonally.

Also, I agree with Austin. All head units sound the same too. Cables now there Im witcha bro. Anybody that cant hear a difference between some Zero Noise 6 and some Radio Shack RCA's has a problem. ;)

[exalted512]

hey...radio shacks gold series are pretty nice...i have gold series y-connectors hooked up to my SW 5.0s...:cool:
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

Not all of our stuff is bad....lol.

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by spwuinmk67
Not all of our stuff is bad....lol.

No offense meant. Im currently using Radio Shack 14 guage flat speaker wire. $20 for 50' aint a bad deal.

I was talking about that cheap-o generic type RCA's youve got. Ya know the kind thats like $10 for 20'!

[Toxis]

Originally posted by MacLeod
Proof? Ever heard of the $10,000 amp challenge ran by Richard Clark of Carsound and Performance Magazine? Its a blind test and all you have to do is listen to music thru the same set of speakers coming from different amps and choose the different amp and you win the 10 grand. Simple huh? In the decade or so Clark has had this challenge standing, NOBODY has collected the check. How is the test done? If say you give me the same HU, same speakers, same environment but only switch the amps, yes I could hear the difference. You can even put 4 amps out there, 3 being the same and I honestly feel I could pick the lone wolf. Now if you give me 15 of the same amp and only one that's different, there's just to much critical listening going on for anyone to tell. Listening tests can't go on for hours...
Originally posted by MacLeod
Also, I agree with Austin. All head units sound the same too. Cables now there Im witcha bro. Anybody that cant hear a difference between some Zero Noise 6 and some Radio Shack RCA's has a problem. ;) Radios sound the same? Ok, since most of you guys would recognize me from the HT side of this forum, I'll put it in those perspectives. Saying a HU doesn't sound any different than any other HU is like saying a DVD player, CD player, or receiver has absolutely no effect on the sound what-so-ever. Now if you can honestly tell me that the last statement is accurate, you need to invest in some Q-tips because your ears are a lil cloged. A HU has a world of difference on the sound. The difference in quality of the laser to read the CD will effect the sound. The processing used to take it from digital to analog signal will drastically change the sound. The quality of output signal... hell, even the type of display will effect the quality of sound. Ever heard of displays emitting distortion into your signal? Now, as earlier stated, amps do have an effect on sound. Not only in distortion or this term so many people use "headroom." Tonally, yes I feel there is a difference in amps. Why? How can an amplifier, or any piece of electronics honestly drastically effect the signal in all these ways without effecting this one aspect? There's so many different pieces of an amplifier to make it work and that passes signal through it. There's no such thing as a perfect signal path. Everything and every aspect WILL be changed in some form or another. To say there's no difference Tonally is like saying there's no difference in Sound stage or depth between amps.

wow...

[MacLeod]

You make a good point about the head units. One of those top end Denons like Biggs uses Im sure will perform better than an$125 Panasonic.

I posted a link on the other thread by Richard Clark. It gives his opinions, the rules and findings. And, as I said, in all the years NOBODY has every won the $10,000! The challenge is open to anybody. Just get hold of him and set up a date and he'll give you the test.

[neomagus00]

on the head units... again, i think it's beyond a certain point. clearly, if you use shit components, it's gonna sound bad. but once you get into good DACs, a decent pickup, etc. i think the only differences are in feel and features... why else would there be so much competition between, say, alpine and pioneer? at a given price level, alpine HUs have one set of features, pioneers another, and you choose based on that, cause you know they're tonally the same.

cables, all bets are off, i can testify to that.

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by Toxis
Saying a HU doesn't sound any different than any other HU is like saying a DVD player, CD player, or receiver has absolutely no effect on the sound what-so-ever. Now if you can honestly tell me that the last statement is accurate, you need to invest in some Q-tips because your ears are a lil cloged. A HU has a world of difference on the sound. The difference in quality of the laser to read the CD will effect the sound. The processing used to take it from digital to analog signal will drastically change the sound. The quality of output signal... hell, even the type of display will effect the quality of sound. Ever heard of displays emitting distortion into your signal?This is the kind of thing that tricks people into paying ungodly amounts of money for "better", more expensive stuff. Their mind has to justify spending $5k for some Kimber Kables or whatever so their stereo now "sounds" better to them. It's been proven that humans CAN'T hear distortion below 1%. Worrying about components of a stereo that introduce or reduce distortion by hundredths or thousandths of a percent is inane. Psychoacoustics, my friend...
-Austin

[spwuinmk67]

So now cody got me thinkin about gettin a Dynaudio comp set, 7", and I also found out I can get Uptopia's for roughly the same price. So before I buy whichever, any last thoughts or suggestions?

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by spwuinmk67
So now cody got me thinkin about gettin a Dynaudio comp set, 7", and I also found out I can get Uptopia's for roughly the same price. So before I buy whichever, any last thoughts or suggestions? If at all possible, LISTEN to both of them! In that price range, it's not which is better, it's which do YOU like more?
-Austin

[MacLeod]

Ive heard the Focals but not the Dyn's. The Focals are unreal! Easily one of the best sounding speakers in the world.

Downside: Its made in France.

[spwuinmk67]

I've been tryin to listen to all of them for months. Everytime I find a dealer of say MB, they don't have the Q's in stock, or on the sound board.

[MacLeod]

Well, personally I like the Q's better.

They are more natural and clean sounding. They are also much more detailed. They have good midbass but its not their strong point.

The Focals were awesome. Not as detailed but had good midbass and a decent little punch to them. The tweeter is smoother than the Q's and is one of the best tweets out there I think.

You wont go wrong with either of them. Kind of like picking between a Ferrari or Lamborghini. Just flip a coin.

[spwuinmk67]

Update....I went and spoke the the owner of the place. Friday morning I'm picking up one set, wether it be the Q's or Utopia's. Taking them home, demoing, playing, bring them back, and taking the others home to do the same. So that's when I'll be choosin between the two. Unfortuantly I can't get them both at the same time so i can A/B them better. But with the price tag they each have, I can understand why.

[MacLeod]

Thats a pretty sweet deal. That way you dont have to worry about the salesman talking over the music or whatever.

Since you cant do an A/B make sure you listen to the same CD's on each and I would suggest keeping notes. I can tell you now that its gonna be a close race. Both of these are tremendous speakers so itll come down to some tiny little detail like "the Focals made the cymbals sound a little cleaner" or something trivial like that.

Either way, I would love to be able to listen to some Utopias exstensively. Be sure to let us know what you thought and which you went with.

[exalted512]

utopias are going to be a lot less fatiguing than the Qs...
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

I'll be doing quite a lot of listening on each, with a variety of music. I'm gonna try to position them to where I'd want them/be able to fit them, but it's gonna be hard cause I can't even scratch them. Which ever I don't get has to be able to be sold if I don't get it, so therefore, must be in perfect shape. But I'll be spending a lot of friday demoing.

[exalted512]

sounds like fun:D
hell, i spent about 4 hours in my truck with the iridiums just to figure out where i wanted everything!!
the dealer sounds like a really cool guy though
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

He's a good guy. The same guy I've bought 2 HU's from, my DX's, my sub, my 2 amps, my gf's speakers, my alarm, and some other shit. Great guy, reasonable too. The other store they have also carries HT products, so when I get finished with my truck, and I start doin that, I'll get hooked up there too..:)

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by exalted512
utopias are going to be a lot less fatiguing than the Qs...
-Cody

Well I wouldnt exactly say that. The Utopias are a little smoother but the Q aint no slouch. If youre bi-amping them I guarantee you I can get em just as smooth and silky as the Utopias.

Plus they wont be made by the french! :D

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by MacLeod
Plus they wont be made by the french! :D That's not a bad thing! Without the french, we wouldn't have French Fries, French Vanilla Ice Cream, French manicures, and tons of other vitally important things...Bras... Not to mention focal... :D

[MacLeod]

Yeah, but theyre pussies! :D

[Toxis]

pussies who make phenominal drivers...

[MacLeod]

Judging by Notre Dame and the Eifel Tower, theyre outstanging architecs and builders as well.....but theyre still pussies! :D

[exalted512]

Originally posted by MacLeod
Well I wouldnt exactly say that. The Utopias are a little smoother but the Q aint no slouch. If youre bi-amping them I guarantee you I can get em just as smooth and silky as the Utopias.

Plus they wont be made by the french! :D
i would. heard them both in car. when i was choosing my last components i didnt even have the q's on the list. im not a fan of quart at all
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

The Utopia 165w's are disco. The ones that replace them aren't out yet. Grr...

[MacLeod]

Get the Q's. I GUARANTEE ya, you wont be disappointed. Plus you wont have to drive around in shame knowing you bought something french. :D

[Toxis]

Originally posted by spwuinmk67
The Utopia 165w's are disco. The ones that replace them aren't out yet. Grr... because their replacements are going to be around 3k. I think I'd be more than happy with the 165w's...

[spwuinmk67]

Well, I'm the new owner of some MB Quart QSD's. :D :D I'll have pics up later. The size of the crossover is massive compared to my DX's. There is also quite a bit difference in weight, even the tweeters.

[spwuinmk67]

Crossover comparison

[spwuinmk67]

again

[spwuinmk67]

speaker

[spwuinmk67]

last one

[MacLeod]

Youre gonna love em.

Some advice: MB Quarts love power so make sure you give em enough juice. Id HIGHLY recommend bi-amping them with 75 to each tweet and 75 to each mid. The Polk 400.4 would be perfect.

[spwuinmk67]

Any other amp suggestions? Not sure still, things I've looked at...Hifonics, US-Amps, Xtant, MTX, a few others that I can't think of. Never thought about the Polk amps really, but there's not enough of them to really cover whatever sub(s) I get. Keeping all amps the same would be nice. I gotta find room to put everything. Two, maybe three amps in the future, sat radio tuner, two huge crossovers, plus subs, and where I wanna mount the speakers. Too much thinking.

[MacLeod]

What subs are you looking to go with?

If you went with Xtant youd be paying out a ton. $550 for the 4.4 for the Q's and either $550 for their 600 watt 6.1 or $1000 for their 1000 watt X1001. Thats the only 2 choices youve got.

As always, Ill recommend MTX and Crossfire.

JL Audio could be another choice. Their E series is priced in the $250-400 range and has plenty of options. The E4300 (http://jlaudio.com/amps/e4300.html) would be a good one to bi-amp the Q's and then the E1800D (http://jlaudio.com/amps/e4300.html) could power 2 400 watt subs easily.

[exalted512]

well whats your budget? you went from hifonics to usamps...like $100-$500...kind of a big difference...
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

No set budget. The xtant amp I looked at was on sounddomain for like $600-$700, dont remember. It was 75x4. Don't know what subs yet either. I'm gonna finish the front stage first, then worry bout that.

[MacLeod]

That would be the X604. You could get the 4.4 which is a little cheaper at $550. Either way, I personally think Xtant are the best amps on the market.

[exalted512]

if youd like to spend that much money on amps then no doubt, id go with USAmps...
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

How bout a reasoning for your suggestions. I say this, I say that. Why though. :)

[neomagus00]

quite honestly, at this level of amplifier (and a good bit lower, for that matter), it's all personal preference. Features, looks, that's really about it.

[MacLeod]

Why I like Xtant
--by MacLeod

I like Xtant because they have supreme build quality. They are built by the company that makes the bulletproof MTX and use even more superior components on Xtant amp than on MTX amps, thus the higher price.

I like Xtant because they make tons of power cleanly.

I like Xtant because they are built in the good ol' US of A.

I like Xtant because they have balanced line inputs, cooling fans a great thermal cooling setup and gold plated outputs and inputs.

I like Xtant because they have great features like variable crossovers, independant left and right gains, adjustable noise gates and Active Resonance Control.

I like Xtant because they are some of the most stunning looking amps on the market.

I like Xtant because they win tons and tons of SQ competitions.

[exalted512]

i prefer USAmps over anything aside from Brax, Helix, McIntosh and maybe a few others I'm forgetting.
theyre hand made in the USA, and have you seen the internals on these things? Theyre built like a haus. Anyways, instead of me just retyping why i think theyre great, go the usamps.com and see what they have to say.
-Cody

[MacLeod]

I just cant get over their name tho. USAmps reminds me too much of US Acoustic.

[spwuinmk67]

I'm also lookin at the Power line of RF amps, thoughts on those?

[neomagus00]

i'd put the power line at 'good' but still a level below the likes of xtant and usamps. maybe their TypeRF amps are that good, but i've never heard much (good or bad) about them. i'm under the impression that they're a test bed for new ideas, and as such are unique but unproven... but that's just an impression.

[MacLeod]

Oooh, I disagree with ya on that one comrade. The Power series is VERY good gear. 1 ohm stable, tons of clean power and tough as nails build quality. They are, however, very expensive.

[spwuinmk67]

The RF stuff I can get a discount on, from the same people I got the Q's from. Hence the reason I'm asking opinions on those. For instance, if I can get this (http://www.cardomain.com/item/ROCT8004?ref=frog) amp for a discounted price, do you think that would be up there along the same lines? And how underrated, if at all, do you think it is? One another note, I started to install the Q's. Got the woofers mounted where I want them, no wires run to them yet though, almost, and no tweeters yet. I gotta find a spot to mount my crossovers, and a new way to mount my amps. If I like the way they sound where they are, then I'll glass them there, so they're more stable then the way they're in there now. I'll post pics tomorrow, it's too dark, and my phone's camera doesn't have a flash.

[MacLeod]

I still like Xtant a little better than RF but those Power amps are very badass and definitely worthy of powering Q's. If you can get a smokin' deal on them Id say go for it.

[neomagus00]

you'd really put the power series as worthy of q's? huh... i guess my opinion of rf is too low...

[MacLeod]

All of Rockford's gear is very good. Their Punch amps are as good as anything in their price range as well. The Power series is excellent. They have much better build quality, and ya gotta love the stable to 1 ohm!

I just dont like em cause theyve gotten a little too mainstream lately and their Power amps are ridiculously high priced.

[spwuinmk67]

Here's two pics of what I started

One (javascript:viewLarge('/enhance/view/large.do;jsessionid=a4hPhO78xC25?containerID=27903 085186&elementID=61713623941&page=2&pageName=enlarge'))

Two (javascript:viewLarge('/enhance/view/large.do;jsessionid=a4hPhO78xC25?containerID=27903 085186&elementID=61714213253&page=1&pageName=enlarge'))

That didn't do what I wanted. When I'm home and not at the lady's house, I'll try again.

[exalted512]

the new power line is nothing short of amazing. if i could get them for a discount id seriously consider them over USAmps, theyre not better, but theyre pretty damn good. they are SEVERELY underrated amps. at least the big amps were, by like 800-900 watts, so im guessing the same goes for all of them. they had a major turn around when they introduced this line, but like Mac said, theyre very pricey. but if you can, snatch em up for the discount
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by exalted512
if i could get them for a discount id seriously consider them over USAmps, theyre not better, but theyre pretty damn good. they are SEVERELY underrated amps.

Actually, when youre in the league of USAmps, RF Power, Xtant and the likes, none are really "better". They are all excellent gear and it basically boils down to which looks the coolest and fits your needs budget, power and features wise.

[exalted512]

Well I've seen the internals of all 3 and you can see the difference. And I like the fact that that theyre hand made compared to mass produced like xtant and RF
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

I only got to take two pics, but thats ok ccause this is all I've done so far. But they're pics none-the-less...

[spwuinmk67]

...

[MacLeod]

You sure that where you want to mount them? It looks like theyre gonna be in the way pretty bad and in danger of getting a foot thru em.

[neomagus00]

just keep the grilles on and forbid high heels and children :)

[spwuinmk67]

On the passenger side....I don't care. Lol. But when I did that, the person helping me, had no complaints about it when we were driving afterwards. The driver side isn't much of a problem. It doesn't block the clutch, the e-brake is still usable. So when I finish hooking up the rest, we'll see how I like it. Theres not many more options, I still have manual windows, and as it is my hand kinda rubs agaisnt the side of the grille.

[AustinKP]

looks like you're going to 'glas them in, right? If so, cut out a hole in the plastic there and they can still be at the same angle, but it'll give you another 4" of clearance. It looks like you could save plenty of room cutting out that pocket alone. Plus, those speakers will sound better IB (opening into the interior of the door) than in a small sealed box. Having them sealed in such a small space against your door would do funny things to your frequency response and low bass extension.

Believe me when I say that the more clearance the better. Try sitting on the passenger side yourself and move around a bit like you would if you were driving a while. It looks like it could get a bit annoying.

[MacLeod]

Austin makes a good point. Those speakers are designed for infinate baffle and if you box them in that small itll make em sound kinda crappy.

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by MacLeod
Austin makes a good point. Hey, thanks! I mean...of course I did. What did you expect? :D

[spwuinmk67]

Well I wanted to see if I like them in that spot first. If so, then I'll cut the pocket out and do some fiberglassing. I'm still unsure of how I want to finish them when I'm done. If I wanna paint it, or maybe use something like the spray coating austin used, etc.

[exalted512]

almost all speakers will sound better in a sealed or ported enclosure as long as its built to specs. it will help your bass response 99.9% of the time
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by exalted512
almost all speakers will sound better in a sealed or ported enclosure as long as its built to specs. it will help your bass response 99.9% of the time
-Cody

That is true but the enclosure required would be a good bit bigger than the space available and the midbass/bass response would be choked. If you dont have the room to build the proper enclosure then dont as these speakers are designed to work in IB theyll work fine.

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by spwuinmk67
Well I wanted to see if I like them in that spot first. If so, then I'll cut the pocket out and do some fiberglassing. I'm still unsure of how I want to finish them when I'm done. If I wanna paint it, or maybe use something like the spray coating austin used, etc. That's going to be a tough one. I was lucky in that I could follow the line from the factory speaker grille, and thus use a different color/texture. You're going to have to do a lot of smoothing, etc. to blend in with the rest of the door panel since it looks like you don't have a line to follow. Looks like you'll have to either cover the whole door with what you choose to finish it with, or else do a heck of a job matching paint and texture to the door.

[spwuinmk67]

That's one thing I'm not looking foward to, matching it to the interior:rolleyes:

[neomagus00]

like austin said, you could match the interior to it, which, given the problems with texture- and color-matching, may end up looking better, if being more difficult.

[spwuinmk67]

Well they're in and running! I finished at....5am? I'll give thoughts and reviews when I get more listening time in, and pics will come later on today.

[exalted512]

let us know!!!
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

pic 1

[spwuinmk67]

2

[spwuinmk67]

try this one more time...2

[spwuinmk67]

3

[spwuinmk67]

4

[exalted512]

so how does it sound????
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

So far, I love them. At first, they were very bright, like god aweful, my ears are gonna bleed bright, lol. Dropped the tweeter level on the crossover to -3, played around with some eq settings on my hu, and now, very detailed, crisp, and loud. There is some lacking midbass, its gotten better as I've played with the eq some, but I think the fact that the bottom of the mids is wide open, that im getting some cancelation. I'm thinking, and hoping, that once I break them in a little more, fiberglass them in, do some sound deadening, that all will improve. I love the detail though.

[MacLeod]

Once you break them in they will thicken up.

Not to mention, once you get them actually installed.

[exalted512]

yea, the way you have them installed now, youre def. getting some cancellation. once its fiberglassed it will also make the place where the speaker is mounted more rigid and will probably help a lot as well.
-Cody

[spwuinmk67]

Well I got around to 'glassing them in the other day, finally. The midbass improved drastically. While it's not the finished product, here are some pics from the driver's side door at least, didn't have time to take pics of the passenger side. It doesn't stick out as far, which is good. I still can use my e-brake, another plus. I think I'm going to hold off on "finishing" them though, at least untill I convert my manual windows and locks to power ones. This way, when I have a hole to cover up from the window crank, I can do it all at once. Plus....I still don't know how I wanna finish it.

[spwuinmk67]

Number 2

[neomagus00]

sweet!

[MacLeod]

Those look like they would be in the way pretty bad. They give you enough leg room?

[spwuinmk67]

When I cut part of the little pocket off, it gave me enough room to bring the speaker back a little, and clear up some leg room. It's not bad at all, I can reach the e-brake easily, which prior to glassing them, I had to be rather carefull. I gotta glass my tweeters in soon though, the hot glue only works so well...lol.

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by spwuinmk67
Well I got around to 'glassing them in the other day, finally. The midbass improved drastically. I noticed the same thing. Makes an incredible difference from just having them freeair, or even from having them *almost* sealed.
-Austin

[spwuinmk67]

A while ago I read something about how the crossover has a light bulb inside that will absorb excess power going to the tweeter, as to not overload it. I completly forgot about this until tonight while I'm drivin around and behind my seats started flashin me...lol. Kinda freaked me out at first. Pretty neat though

[MacLeod]

LOL! Thats pretty cool.

I always read they had little light bulbs in there but have never seen them lit up like that.