I Finally Did It!!! [Archive]

DR. SNOW

03-04-2005, 11:59 PM

I finally dought a pair of Polk SDA-CRS+. I had almost forgotten about these speakers until I found this forum. I first heard the SDA at Audio Genesis in Glens Falls NY when I was 13. At 30 I finally have pair!!!! They sound better than I remember! I am using a Denon DRA-325 that I bought when I was 13 and it has served me very well. I hope to upgrade this to a Denon 3805 in a few months. I wanted to ask you fine people what you think about using the SDA series as HT speakers. I want to be able to listen to music as well without hampering the SDA effect. Has anyone tried making a switch to disable and enable the SDA effect? Is it recomended to run with the SDA effect with a HT setup or not, hence my first question. I found the Polk recomended center, rear and sub, but most are obsolete, are there updated recomendations or should I be keeping my eyes open for the obsolete stuff?

By the way DO NOT use UPS to ship speakers. I bought these off eBay at a premium because I could not wait any longer, I thought 17 years was enough. However UPS dropped one box, damaging a corner and worse yet breaking in half the large winding that the crossover attached to in the cabinet. I carefully rewound the coil and glued the spoll back together. Before, during , and after the prcess I took resistance measurments with a meter to make sure I was at the same resitance as when I started. Ithink it was 2.2 or 2.3 ohms. They sound FANTASTIC! Does anyone know where I can get the grill clips?

thanks everyone for making me think of the SDA again!

F1nut

03-05-2005, 12:47 AM

Doc, welcome to the forum and congrats on your SDA's.

Why not try the SDA's as they are for HT, they excell at that too. If you run them with the cable disconnected or switched off you're not using one driver per cabinet and that will affect the sound and output. In fact, many use their SDA's for 2 channel HT and are very happy without a center or surrounds. They will sound even better with upgraded power, so get that new Denon or the like asap.

The grill plugs can be found at Parts Express. The ball is about a red ---- hair smaller though, but will work.

Tour2ma

03-05-2005, 02:43 AM

Ditto on the welcome and the urging to try the SDA in your HT.

I find it blends very nicely with the surrounds...

Sorry to read of the UPS issue... Unfortunately it's not news to many of us...

DR. SNOW

03-05-2005, 10:51 AM

Thanks for the input. I will try to upgrade my reciever by June. Cannot wait. Just to clarify...You guys think run 2 channel only witht the SDA? No center or rears? If I where to add a center or rears what would you recomed that would match the SDA-CRS+?

F1nut

03-05-2005, 11:15 AM

All I'm saying is to try it, but no matter what you do, do not disable the SDA feature. I can't help you with matching speakers suggestions, perhaps some others will.

Tour2ma

03-05-2005, 04:52 PM

DR. S.... As he's indicating, F1 is a 2 ch guy... not a HT rig in the house... and proud of it.

IMO, you will definitely get a better HT experience with a full 5.1 or 7.1 set up. While SDA's will reach outside the speakers, they still stay in front of you.

Surrounds come from the sides, behind, etc. Timbre matching surrounds is a non-issue for HT. It becomes an issue for multi-channel music, i.e., SACD, etc.

A center channel is not essential, if the sweet spot is all that is occupied, but is needed if multiple listening positions are occupied. Timbre matching is a center channel concern be it for HT or music. It's the tweeters that determine how good the match is...

The SL2000 is not an easy match. I've used both the CS-400 and the CS-350LS as centers. They are a fair match for my SRS's 2000's, but when I played with my 3.1tl's, their SL3000's were definitely a better match with the 400's.

Many here have updated their SL2000's with the updated replacement, the RD0194-1. It's more "SL3000-ish" sounding and should be an even better match for the CS series centers...

nspindel

03-19-2005, 11:28 PM

Hi Dr. Snow -

Wow, you waited a long time. Looks like you and I heard the SDA-CRS+'s right around the same time. The only difference is, I bought them and you didn't :) I've had mine for 17 years now, and still love them just as much as the day I opened the boxes.

Right now, I am using them with the receiver I bought at the same time - Harman Kardon HK990 Vxi. I've always loved the combination of Polk and Harman Kardon. 90 wpc, beautiful sound. The only difference is that now I have it fed from a pc, playing flac's that I ripped from my cd collection, instead of using the stupid plastic discs. So I have the s/pdif from my pc running into a Boehringer SRC2496 dac, since 17 year old amps don't have digital processors. The 24-bit dac makes a huge difference, the system sounds better than it ever did before. Listening to Brahms Hungarian Dance no. 12 on it as I type. The thing I've always loved the best about this HK/Polk combo is that it sounds perfect with absolutely nothing done to the sound - treble/bass at dead center, no eq., nor do I do anything to the sound on the digital side. And that goes for anything from Mozart to Led Zeppelin.

As for HT, there was a while where I had the CRS+'s as my fronts in a 5.1 system. I've since replaced that whole setup with other stuff, and went with Polk in-walls and and HK 7.1 receiver. So I put the old system back together in the basement for 2 channel, hence the reunion of the CRS's with the HK990.

When I used these for HT, I had them matched with a Polk CS350-LS center channel, Polk LS-FX's in back, and a Polk PSW-200 sub. I was using an HK 5.1 amp that I've since sold. It was a terrific combo, and I've always used the SDA cable - it's great for HT as well, I definitely recommend using it.

Enjoy them, they'll be worth the wait for you!!!

George Grand

03-20-2005, 01:31 PM

Jesse is a 2 channel guy and for good reason. I have the same reason. 5 operating rigs in the house and none HT.

Get a REAL full-range pair of speakers that image well, and require no sub.

I started monkeying around with a powered sub this weekend. It's the first powered sub I've had in-house. I used it with a bunch of different satellite speakers, and with a bunch of different room placements. My research yielded at least one thing to my ears....sub/sat systems are a compromise.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

nspindel

03-20-2005, 01:37 PM

2 channel vs. 5.1 or 7.1 better/worse is kind of a silly argument.

Listening to Mozart, a high quality 2 channel is much better.

Watching the pod race scene in Star Wars Episode I, 7.1 is the only way to go.

Different things for different purposes.

This is kind of like asking which is better to drive - a Corvette or a pickup truck. If I'm out for a Sunday drive, the Corvette is what I want to be in. But if I have a lot of stuff to haul, I need the pickup. It's apples and oranges, really.

Loud & Clear

03-20-2005, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by nspindel
2 channel vs. 5.1 or 7.1 better/worse is kind of a silly argument.

Listening to Mozart, a high quality 2 channel is much better.

Watching the pod race scene in Star Wars Episode I, 7.1 is the only way to go.

Different things for different purposes.

This is kind of like asking which is better to drive - a Corvette or a pickup truck. If I'm out for a Sunday drive, the Corvette is what I want to be in. But if I have a lot of stuff to haul, I need the pickup. It's apples and oranges, really.

Totally agree.

HBombToo

03-20-2005, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by nspindel
2 channel vs. 5.1 or 7.1 better/worse is kind of a silly argument.

Listening to Mozart, a high quality 2 channel is much better.

Watching the pod race scene in Star Wars Episode I, 7.1 is the only way to go.

Different things for different purposes.

Granted but if I had to compimise between 2 channel and HT it would be with the CRS+ on the fronts with no center and a sub for watching films. The sub would only be on for HT use in other words.

I believe that was the intent of the original quesion by the good DR. and welcome to our humble abode.

HBomb

George Grand

03-20-2005, 04:43 PM

I said sub/sat systems are a compromise. I didn't say surround was a compromise. If I wanted surround, which I don't, I'd go with 5 or 6 AR-9's in one room. Then if you stopped by, you'd feel the same way I do.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

HBombToo

03-20-2005, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by George Grand
If I wanted surround, which I don't, I'd go with 5 or 6 AR-9's in one room. Then if you stopped by, you'd feel the same way I do.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

That adventure would have to wait on my end... after the Marantz 8 the wife has put a freeze on purchases for a while ;) I have no experience with AR's but with my new taste in vintage I could see myself in some deep kimchee(CHSP):(

HBomb

nspindel

03-20-2005, 04:55 PM

I'm talking about quotes like these:

<<In fact, many use their SDA's for 2 channel HT and are very happy without a center or surrounds.>>

<<DR. S.... As he's indicating, F1 is a 2 ch guy... not a HT rig in the house... and proud of it.>>

I totally agree sub-sat is a compromise, as are my in-walls for the home theater. Sometimes one has to make asthetic compromises (especially when there's a wife involved!!!!!), and the high-quality stuff gets banished to the basement.....

If you can't have multiple rigs in the house, and your main use is music, then by all means stick with 2 channel. I pretty much only listen to music in the basement on my SDA's, the 7.1 setup is for tv/movies.

But I don't think anyone can argue that if you're watching a dvd, you're better off with a surround setup than with a 2 channel.....

nspindel

03-20-2005, 05:20 PM

FYI, Here's my setup:

2-channel:
-------------
Power - Harman Kardon HK990 Vxi
Speakers - 2 x Polk SDA-CRS+
DAC - Behringer SRC2496
Source - PC via optical S/PDIF, ~1000 cd's ripped to flac via EAC secure mode

Home Theater:
-------------------
Power/Processing - Harman Kardon DPR1001
Fronts/Center - 3 x Polk RC85i
Side Surrounds - 2 x Polk RC60i
Rear Surrounds - 2 x Polk LS/FX
Sub - Polk PSW200
Display - Hitachi 60V500
Source - PC via Coax S/PDIF, ~200 dvd's ripped uncompressed via DVD Shrink 3.1, ~1000 cd's ripped as above.

Multi-Room:
---------------
Power - Harman Kardon PA 2000
Speakers - 4 x Polk Atrium 45, 2 x Polk AB705, 2 x Polk AB41A, 2 x Polk M5
Speaker Switch - Xantech 686-10

Hmmm, I count 20 Polk speakers in my house, I think Matthew Polk owes me a beer!!!!

HBombToo

03-20-2005, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by nspindel
FYI, Here's my setup:

2-channel:
-------------
Power - Harman Kardon HK990 Vxi
Speakers - 2 x Polk SDA-CRS+
DAC - Behringer SRC2496
Source - PC via optical S/PDIF, ~1000 cd's ripped to flac via EAC secure mode

"DAC - Behringer SRC2496"

Tell me more??? have you researched the receiving chip...

High quality dacs imply low jitter if they are built correctly. Is Behringer dj gear?

HBomb

nspindel

03-20-2005, 06:05 PM

I can't say that I was overly picky on the dac. I was feeding the rig through the analog out from the pc, which sounded like complete garbage because of all the interference inherent with analog on the pc - I just wanted a separate dac to get rid of all that. I did a little research, found this thing which seemed to blow away anything else you could get without spending much, much more. This retails for about $350, but street price is around $130. The analog outs are XLR, no RCA, so you'd need XLR->RCA cables to go to consumer type amps.

For this price point, I don't know how you could do better with jitter - it allows you to sync the clock with the digital input. Personally, I think the unit sounds absolutely fantastic.

Have a look:

http://www.behringer.com/SRC2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG

I bought it here:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHSRC2496

Several very positive reviews there. Good luck.

nspindel

03-20-2005, 06:08 PM

Actually, my bad - one of the reviews I read had said that the retail price was ~$350, but it's been out for a few years. Looks like retail has dropped to ~$160.

George Grand

03-20-2005, 09:46 PM

I can argue with you all day about if you're watching a dvd it's better in surround.

Depends on if you're watching a movie that was meant to engross you as an adult, maybe one in black and white with a mono soundtrack, or the latest edition of whatever kids are watching today. The ones with no plot whatsoever, but plenty of action to hold the childs attention.

I can put surround in any of the rooms and rigs in this house. Been down the surround road in many different incarnations since the 60's, and I have grown weary of it. Are you going to buy into 12.1 or 13.1 when THAT'S the rage? The speaker manufacturers are hoping you will.

FYI, I don't care what kind of equipment you have. I care about what equipment "I" have.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

nspindel

03-20-2005, 10:21 PM

Wow, you're a real cheer to be around.

I hadn't realized that anything beyond black and white with a mono soundtrack was only meant for kids. I have a great idea for you - the next time you're looking for a sound system for your old black and whites, try going to Radio Shack - I hear they're running a special on transistor radios with mono aux. inputs. Enjoy.

Why bother posting on a forum if all you care about is yourself? You could have a much better time if you just stared at a mirror all day long.

Wow, a mirror and a transistor radio, and you're all set! Who's better than you???

F1nut

03-21-2005, 12:44 AM

Mr. Grand's point, which I believe you missed, is that when it comes to films, if the story and acting aren't worth two squats all the surround sound in the world isn't going to make it worth watching.

I think of it like this, music is meant to be heard, film is meant to be watched. I don't want to watch a band play on a TV screen while I'm trying to listen to music nor do I care for things whizzing around the room while I'm trying to watch a flick. I digress, to each their own.

nspindel

03-21-2005, 07:28 AM

<<FYI, I don't care what kind of equipment you have. I care about what equipment "I" have.>>

No, actually Mr. Grand's point is that he is a self-obsessed prick.....

hotwheelman

03-21-2005, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by nspindel
<<FYI, I don't care what kind of equipment you have. I care about what equipment "I" have.>>

No, actually Mr. Grand's point is that he is a self-obsessed prick.....

Oh boy,Katy bar the door....the ****s about to hit the fan.

F1nut

03-21-2005, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by nspindel

No, actually Mr. Grand's point is that he is a self-obsessed prick.....

You're totally out of line.

hotwheelman

03-21-2005, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by F1nut
You're totally out of line.

Absofregginlutly........nspindude, you need to hang around a bit longer before you can justify the name calling. George has an opinion I will grant you that, but it is a damn good one that I respect and have NEVER found issue with, I guess some folks just can't swallow constructive criticism when it has been tossed to them.
The point is that HT is not everyones forte, and for some 2 channel listening in any environment is just fine with them. Georges point is that he is just fine with what he has and anything beyond that is considered overkill.

Quote:
"FYI, I don't care what kind of equipment you have. I care about what equipment "I" have."

That door can swing both directions......dig?

George Grand

03-21-2005, 12:25 PM

I'll answer the only thing worth answering that the child brought up.

Who's better than me? The list is short Spunky, and I don't see your name on it.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

RuSsMaN

03-21-2005, 12:29 PM

Yawn.

nspindel

03-21-2005, 01:24 PM

Yeah George. Tell you what - go take a mortgage on your house, buy yourself a $50,000 Mark Levinson tube amplifier, maybe some nice vintage B&W monitors for $30,000 more. Then you could have 6 rigs in your house. Let me know if it makes a difference when you watch Citizen Cane for the 500th time.

You think you're better than me because you've posted on this forum 2000 times? Yeah, I'm impressed. All that tells me is that you have no life. No friends, just lots of audio equipment to keep you busy because that's all you have in your life.

<<Who's better than me? The list is short Spunky, and I don't see your name on it.>>

Like I said, self-obsessed prick. You prove my point.

<<nspindude, you need to hang around a bit longer before you can justify the name calling.>>

Says who? You? Who cares? The guy's making inflamatory arguments towards me, you think I need to "earn" the right to reply just because I just joined the forum. I've owned Polk speakers for 17 years - I'll say whatever I want in their forum, I could care less how long he's been providing his highly constructive opinions.

<<I guess some folks just can't swallow constructive criticism when it has been tossed to them.>>

I don't find his criticism constructive. I find it moronic. Nobody's telling the guy he has to have a home theater. Just don't criticize people who do as being children: <<Depends on if you're watching a movie that was meant to engross you as an adult, maybe one in black and white with a mono soundtrack, or the latest edition of whatever kids are watching today.>> I interpret that as meaning that the only reason you'd want surround sound is if you watch content meant for children. I take offense at that.

HBombToo - Good luck with your dac research, it's a shame we couldn't carry on a reasonable conversation without the peanut gallery.......

George, unlike you, I have better things to do with my time than argue about this nonsense. Later, Douche (of the Jersey Douches). Don't bother replying, I won't be checking back in.

George Grand

03-21-2005, 01:26 PM

How DARE you yawn in the presence of Emperor "I have 8 posts" and "FYI, look at my list of impressive audio credentials".

I am in AWE of his list of audio products, and feel honored to behold it.

8 posts. Boy is he gonna LOOOOVE me.

Adios young shmucko.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

jdhdiggs

03-21-2005, 02:36 PM

Hey George, I get your point but my thinking is that filmmakers today are more into providing an "experience" rather than just telling a story.

That being said, when you compare all movies prior to 1995 to all those since, of course your going have better good movies, and most likely, you forgot all the dog turds churned up during the same time. The more recent movies, probably the same ratio of good stories to steaming piles, however, now joe blow will buy something for the experience and/or the story.

I see both your points, I'll stay with the full experience and keep the surround. Music? only need 2 speakers there... ;)

Spindel: Seriously, chill out. If you haven't figured it out, a lot of us have met face to face and are friends. You come in here and start throwing your crap around and not expect everyone to react? Come on... :rolleyes:

And at 1.39 posts per day? Yeah, he needs a life, maybe 30 seconds of his life everyday for a hobby that he helps several others out with... Yeah, this is a guy whose balls you should bust. Let's turn the page on this one, shall we?

F1nut

03-21-2005, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by nspindel
Don't bother replying, I won't be checking back in.

Spotted lurking.

Loud & Clear

03-21-2005, 02:51 PM

Flibbity-flew. You know what I hate? It's that damn color they put in these modern 'movies.' Irritates me false teeth somethin' fierce! Prefer black & white without the white (too bright for me sight receptacles), always have.

Know what else I hate? I hate it when these damn kids laugh out loud, or jump up into the air when they knows I'm a seein' 'em! You don't think I wish I could do that!? Why do they have to flaunt it like that?!

Surround noises and colors are for morons who ain't smart enough to be able to concentrate on only ONE things at a time!

I'm older than George Burns' balls. :mad:

F1nut

03-21-2005, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Loud & Clear
Surround noises and colors are for morons who ain't smart enough to be able to concentrate on only ONE things at a time!

LOL....and some folks aren't smart enough to get the original point.

George Grand

03-21-2005, 03:30 PM

I miss him already.

Great answers youse guys.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

DR. SNOW

03-21-2005, 04:10 PM

WOW!

Ive been away over the weekend and didn't realize there was sooo much response to my origional post. Thanks for all the input! I think I will go buy some monster cable and some Bose speakers, perhaps I can get that neat clear base module!!!! JUST KIDDING GUYS/GALS. I appreciate all the input and actually I am kind of sorry that it turned the way it did. Quite honestly I joined the forum because I respect the opinions of people who have had experience with other equipment. The conversations I have seen hear have soured me somewhat. EVERYONE on this forum is entitled to an opinion and it should not come down to name calling and finger pointing. I think it really is rather unfortunate. It kinda reminded me of the holidays I spent with my family:o Not something I enjoyed as a kid. Nor do I enjoy reading it here. Thanks to all of you who wrote positive comments. Personally I think I will create a surround system. I like surround for movies and have a great appreciation for listening to music in 2 channel.

RuSsMaN

03-21-2005, 05:27 PM

George fired the first shot across his bow. At least that's how I read it.

I kind of like this new guy.

Cheers,
Russ

polksda

03-21-2005, 05:39 PM

Yumpin' Yiminy.

You like surround? Listen in surround.

You no like surround? Don't listen in surround.

There isn't one single correct answer; it's personal preference. Dowhatchalike.

I tend to prefer music in true stereo. However, there are some concert DVDs and DTS audio CDs that I really like the surround effects on. It doesn't have to be an either-or proposition...

What I prefer may not be what you prefer. So what? What's the BFHFD?

Oh, and just because a movie isn't in b&w or in mono, doesn't mean it's a piece of tripe made only for kids. The carmudgeon is coming through loud and clear, George... ;)

Larry Chanin

03-21-2005, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by DR. SNOW
I wanted to ask you fine people what you think about using the SDA series as HT speakers. I want to be able to listen to music as well without hampering the SDA effect. Has anyone tried making a switch to disable and enable the SDA effect? Is it recomended to run with the SDA effect with a HT setup or not, hence my first question. I found the Polk recomended center, rear and sub, but most are obsolete, are there updated recomendations or should I be keeping my eyes open for the obsolete stuff?

Hi Doc,

There is no need to disable the SDA effect regardless of whether you are listening to 2-channel music or multi-channel movies. The SDA effect uses Interaural crosstalk cancellation to create a more accurate sound. In real life there is only one source producing a sound. Our hearing uses the differences in timing of the sound coming from a single source to each ear to determine the location of the sound.

In stereo or multi-channel reproduction, two main sources attempt to recreate the original single source sound. As a result sounds from the left speaker is heard in the right ear and visa versa. These additional artifical sounds are called Interaural crosstalk, and they result in a loss of imaging because the additional sounds blur the original directional sound cues need by our hearing to localize the sound.

As a result the SDA effect will always improve imaging regardless of whether it is stereo or multi-channel soundtrack.

With regard to matching speakers to your CRS's, Tour2ma has provided a lot of good advice. I have a pair of SDA-1C's for my mains. With the exception of the passive radiator, they have the identical drivers as the CRS's. For a long time I used the CS400 center with good results. As Tour mentioned they were a good match, but the CRS's were a perfect match. So I now use two CRS's as my center. You might consider using a CS400, or even an other CRS as a center. The downside of using the CRS is even if you used two you would not be able to use the SDA effect because it requires two channels.

With regard to surrounds I am using the f/x500 for the sides and the LC265i's In-Wall for the surround back. Both work very well. The LC265i uses the same drivers as the LSi series. Despite the newness of the LSi line, these drivers match up well with the vintage SDA's. In fact it was Matt Polk himself who recommended that I match the LSi driver to my SDA's. So depending on your budget you should be able to match a center and surrounds from the LSi line with decent results.

Larry

George Grand

03-21-2005, 09:58 PM

Polksda,

An extreme example is what I used.

Been down the surround road for both audio AND video, starting a loooong time ago.

If it's a good video, I get very engrossed in the MOVIE PART OF THE MOVIE, and find the "gee whiz I have helicopters circling around my room" part both annoying AND distracting. Maybe it comes with maturity, maybe not. Maybe it comes with being sick of all the gee whiz stuff, and maybe not. I am into human interest films, not sound effects. That is NOT moviemaking. OKAY? It's flash.

All I need is a REAL GOOD pair of speakers up front, so that when someone slams a car door, it sounds like someone slammed a car door, or when someone fires a cannon, that somebody fired a cannon. The AR-9's OR The Carver Amazing's will deliver that in spades, and image like all hell too. You like gimmicks, then enjoy gimmicks. It's not for me.

I am dead serious when I suggest that some of the folks will definitely buy into 25.1 when it gets to that. A totally passive Dynaco Quadaptor and two surround speakers, will give you 90% of this 5.1 or 7.1 stuff, at 1/90th the cost. Why can I make that statement? Maybe cause I've been THERE, and done THAT.

I especially took offense at yobbo's For Your Information look at my pile of very important equipment line. Who cares how much stuff he has? Is that pile of stuff supposed to make ME change MY MIND about what I like? Is it supposed to make me change my opinion of ANYTHING?

I re-iterate, "I" don't care what ANYBODY else has, I care about what "I" have. This does not make me "self-obsessed" it makes me a damn realist.

I kind of like Dr. Snow also. If it looks like I fired a shot across HIS bow, you're mistaken. I fired a shot dead amidships into the other individual. He's gone, and I'm fine with it.

Hi Larry.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

VR3

03-21-2005, 10:10 PM

Must admit that I slightly agree with George...and I wont do this much...

Going from 5.1---to 4.1---to 2.1, I enjoy my 2.1 system much more. Even in larger rooms, the 5.1 setups I've heard... the surround channels above my head or behind me only detracted from my movie experience...

The center channel only left a continuous 'direction' of blah, is this thing even worth it? its ALWAYS there...

A good set of mains will murder any 5.1 system with a seamless blend and enveloping surround setup.

I'll put my 2.1 systems against ALOT of 5.1 systems as far as L to C to R blend, side action fill in, and even rear fill in...

I get it all, especially in my small room.

Now...I do agree if you have a REALLY large room, multiple speakers will be needed, of course...unless you have some extroidinary large speakers like Mr. Grand over here...its a a requirement if you REALLY want to have the enveloping experience..

My statement still stands though, even in larger rooms - a 2.1 system will rock a 5.1 system, no matter how well setup in seamless blend...

Back to regurally schelduled program

F1nut

03-21-2005, 10:28 PM

Trey, you make me proud. I taught you well.:)

VR3

03-21-2005, 10:32 PM

Yeah...well...

I'm gonna go watch me some 2.1 SUR-WOUND-ROUND

Yall have fun...

OH yeah...

Congrats on your speakers Doc...seems you were very deserving...seem to be in good hands! :D

PS: I've learned alot from the forum here...especially from the 2-channel nuts...and thats an understatement (big thanks to yall!)

Polk65

03-22-2005, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by DR. SNOW
I finally dought a pair of Polk SDA-CRS+.
I wanted to ask you fine people what you think about using the SDA series as HT speakers.

I'm an SDA virgin again, now it's with movies. When I owned SDA 2.3TL's back in the late 80's I was using them only for music. Until recently, I had been using a 7.1 setup for movies and quite happy with it. About two weeks ago I scored a pair of CRS and have been listening to them both with music and movies.

A result of my short time with them is, during 75% of the movies I've watched, I check to be certain that my old center channel speaker is really off! As I walk back to my chair scratching my head, I just can't believe it.

Finally the sound matches the surface area of the movie. The soundstage has increased about 3x taller than it was before, which I really love. I'm hearing sounds from "outside" my speaker cabinets during movies that I never noticed before with the 7.1 setup which is quite interesting.

Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon, and A Streetcar Named Desire never sounded so good to me. I agree with Sid's comment about the center channel speaker. Previously I had found myself staring at it's location as the only source of dialog. Now the center dialog is about 2x wider and blends partially into the side sounds.

My next tests over the coming weeks will be with my RTA12's, sub, sides, rear, and center.

edit: I should kick my own a$$ for not buying SDA's again sooner.

billbillw

03-22-2005, 09:29 AM

George,
You are right, you will get about 90% of the movie's soundtrack info from a 2-channel setup. For many that is enough. Just like you will get 90% of the image quality from a 27" tv and a vcr tape. What you won't get is the complete movie experience as the director intended. Sometimes, that extra 10% is enough to make the experience extraordinary instead of just average. Is a movie more enjoyable with a large screen tv or projection unit and DVD source? Yes, of course it is. I feel the same about multi-channel soundtracks.

I think that many of you 2-channel drum beaters have just not expereienced a PROPERLY setup multichannel system with GREAT multichannel source material. When I say properly setup, I mean every speaker is timbre matched and sized appropriately; the speakers are placed in optimal locations; the system is SPL level adjusted, time delay adjusted, and otherwise optimized. When everything is setup properly, the surround effect immerses you in the movie. It doesn't distract you. It brings a smile to your face when you get the feeling you are right there.

Yes, I will agree that some movie makers go overboard and it does get distracting, but the really good movies/directors/sound mixers use the surround effects only to add ambience and realism to the movie.

I can enjoy a movie in 2-channel, but I prefer multichannel. That is how the director wanted us to see the movie.

Music is a different story. I will not use any artificial processing on my music. CDs get played in 2 channel, no question. SACD and DVD-A are still a mixed bag due the varying quality of their multichannel mixes. Most of the early multichannel releases are "gee whiz" sounding, but many of the newer releases really sound good. I love the SACD multichannel of Dark Side of the Moon and the recent Concord Jazz Sampler multi-channel SACD.

Bottom line is, enjoy what you like and don't diss others for their opinions. Most audiophiles put many, many hours of research, testing, listening, experimenting, etc. into their equipment choices. Naturally they want to share that. At least one other forum member (Hbomb) was interested in nspindle's equipment. George was out of line posting the line "I don't care about your equipment" and treating him like he was some newbie who didn't know anything. Many people, including me, come to this forum after many years of audio tinkering and have been part of the audiophile community in one way or another. They may be new here, but not neccesarily a newbie. Your post count doesn't equate to your knowledge or experience.

HBombToo

03-22-2005, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by billbillw
At least one other forum member (Hbomb) was interested in nspindle's equipment.

George was out of line posting the line "I don't care about your equipment" and treating him like he was some newbie who didn't know anything.

Many people, including me, come to this forum after many years of audio tinkering and have been part of the audiophile community in one way or another. They may be new here, but not neccesarily a newbie. Your post count doesn't equate to your knowledge or experience.

I'm always interested in new stuff but shoot the guy went ballistic and I lost interest real fast.

I did not read Georges post in that light. From an objective point of view on my end I saw it as sharing experience with "the gear I have" and that was the intent from start to finish. I learn a lot here due to that fact.

The third point is dead on as long as an individual does not get into the mind set of my gear is better than your gear or your stuff sounds like crap or some variant.

Henry

dorokusai

03-22-2005, 10:19 AM

Blah Blah Blah

If a movie had the same impact on 2CH that it does in multichannel, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Take your 2CH movie experience and shove it up your arse flunkies....you simply didn't do something right to think that it is the same or better. Get real.

I mean that with respect of course to you older people, the younger ones can blast off ;)

I think anything more than 7.1 in the typical individuals setup is simply excessive and unneccesary. 5.1 makes me giggle like a little girl.

Larry Chanin

03-22-2005, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by George Grand

Hi Larry.

Hi George,

I see you're in the thick of it. ;)

I have to say that this debate appears to be a digression from Doc's original question which I have attempted to answer in the posting preceeding yours. I think you and the other knowledgeable SDAers could be more helpful if you could focus on that issue rather than getting into a debate about your movie watching personal preferences.

To recap what Doc originally wanted to know was whether he should turn off the SDA effect for movies and how to match centers and surrounds to his CRS's.

Regards,

Larry

George Grand

03-22-2005, 04:46 PM

Dr. Snow, I'm sorry I had a hand in this, but I don't think anyone is hearing me.

I DON'T care about anybody elses equipment. You shouldn't care about MY equipment. I would CARE if your equipment burst into flames and you didn't have it anymore, but aside from that, I don't care what you have. Do you CARE about what kind of car I drive? Do you CARE about what kind of house I live in? Aside from caring that YOUR car is not a hazard on the road to others and yourself, or that YOUR house is a firetrap and a danger to you, your family, and your neighbors, I don't CARE about what kind of house you live in, what kind of car you drive, and what kind of equipment you own.

I think the blowhards original statement was, "But I don't think ANYONE could argue, that if you're watching a dvd, it's better in surround, rather than 2 channel." Then as if to re-inforce his position, he listed what I imagine was his idea of a "Shut your mouth, LOOK AT WHAT I LISTEN TO" list of equipment. Well I feel like I CAN argue the point about watching a dvd in surround or two channel, and a list of equipment doesn't enter the picture as far as I'm concerned.

MAN, am I wasting my breath here or what?

The guy trolled in, and he trolled out. Fare thee well troll.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

billbillw

03-22-2005, 06:17 PM

George,
If you really don't care what anyone else has, why do you read and post on this forum? The forum is to share knowledge and experience on audio equipment, especially Polk Audio equipment. What works and what doesn't work. Its a collective knowledge base. You can't discuss those experiences without sharing information the equipment that you own, have owned, or wish to own, and you can't really understand where others are coming from unless you know what they own, have owned, or wish to own.

No, we don't care what type of car or house you own because this is not a home improvement forum or an automobile forum.

DR. SNOW

03-22-2005, 10:32 PM

Why can't we all just get along!:rolleyes:

Okay, as I said I have made a decision..... personally I like the dizzying effect of helicopters buzzing around ny head. Perhaps Mr. Grand doesn't and that is perfectly fine. My origional question, that some have generously answered, was...

""what you think about using the SDA series as HT speakers. I want to be able to listen to music as well without hampering the SDA effect. Has anyone tried making a switch to disable and enable the SDA effect? Is it recomended to run with the SDA effect with a HT setup or not, hence my first question. I found the Polk recomended center, rear and sub, but most are obsolete, are there updated recomendations or should I be keeping my eyes open for the obsolete stuff?""

My intention was not to start a very heated discussion. I wanted to ask the opinions of other SDA owners who had the in a HT setup. I have decided that I will add a new Denon 3805 in the near future. Then begin to add a center and surrounds as time and money allows. I am also working on my house so money is an issue. I am in enough trouble with the wife for building a set of stands for the SDA's while other projects that where started months ago are still not complete..... But the speakers have stands! Can you tell what my priorities are.;)

CU

dorokusai

03-22-2005, 10:42 PM

Larry Chanin and Darque Knight have been on both sides of this issue. LC uses CRS's for centers....DK uses the LSiC....both are happy and giggle like little girls.

I think the CRS is a great speaker, I'm enjoying mine right now....have fun with it.

Everything can be fixed by quality audio, new home? screw it....I envision a 7.1 SDA refrigerator box with dual subwoofers....and a second hand mattress.

nobleone

03-23-2005, 12:14 AM

Hello all,

I have been checking out the forums for a few months, but this
is my first post.
I own a pair of SDA SRS 2.3 and a Hafler XL600 both bought
in 1989. I Love BIG sound during shootouts and car
crashes, but with the virtual surround on my DVD player
turned on I have not felt the need to "upgrade" to HT.
To each their own.

Be talking again....someday....It will probably take another rant

Marcus

F1nut

03-23-2005, 12:43 AM

Ranting is good, ranting is fun, rant away!

TroyD

03-23-2005, 01:34 AM

As a wise man once said, if it's yours and you enjoy it...is it REALLY all that important what anyone else thinks???

Sheesh...

For the record, with SDA mains, I've used both an LSiC and (currently) a pair of CRS's....while the LSiC was good, the CRS's are much better.

BDT

jcmccorm

04-18-2005, 11:15 AM

How do you use a pair of CRS's as center?

Do you position them side-by-side or on top of each other? Wouldn't that cause an interference pattern in that speaker's radiated sound pattern?

Cary

dorokusai

04-18-2005, 11:46 AM

Take a look at Larry Chanin's system showcase.

jcmccorm

04-18-2005, 01:18 PM

Thanks! I see what Larry is doing - two CRS's, one on the bottom of the screen and one on top. I've always read that this is a no-no as the two centers will set up an interference pattern that mimics a comb filter.

On the other hand, I've always wanted to try this as well. I'm using a Boston Acoustics VR-12 for center and ended up buying a second one on ebay so I could give this a shot with these.

The two CRS's would be a better match for my SRS's up front though. I always thought the Boston Acoustics VR-12 center matched pretty well until one scene in "The Incredibles" where the dialog pans back and forth between center and left front. The mismatch was so obvious it made me wince and look at my guests. Of course, as usual, it was only me that notices such minutia... :)

Cary

Larry Chanin

04-18-2005, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by jcmccorm
Thanks! I see what Larry is doing - two CRS's, one on the bottom of the screen and one on top. I've always read that this is a no-no as the two centers will set up an interference pattern that mimics a comb filter.

On the other hand, I've always wanted to try this as well. I'm using a Boston Acoustics VR-12 for center and ended up buying a second one on ebay so I could give this a shot with these.

The two CRS's would be a better match for my SRS's up front though. I always thought the Boston Acoustics VR-12 center matched pretty well until one scene in "The Incredibles" where the dialog pans back and forth between center and left front. The mismatch was so obvious it made me wince and look at my guests. Of course, as usual, it was only me that notices such minutia... :)

Cary

Hi Cary,

With regard to comb filtering perhaps the following thread may be of interest:

Dual Centers for Front Projection? (http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20995)

In theory if the listener is equidistant from two speakers that are producing the same sound, the sounds reach your ears at the same time. Therefore, there is no delay between the sounds coming from each speaker, and without a delay there can not be comb filtering.

If you study the difference in geometry between vertically stacked dual centers versus horizontally oriented dual centers you will quickly realize that listeners sitting off-axis from stacked centers can still be equidistant from both speakers. However, listeners sitting off-axis from horizontally oriented dual centers will only be equidistant if they are sitting on-axis. Therefore, anyone sitting off-axis in a horizontal arrangement will be subjected to more comb filtering distortion than a stacked configuration because there will be more of a difference in distance to the speakers and therefore a delay between the sounds. This delay causes constructive and destructive interference between the two sounds which in turn creates the distinctive comb filtering pattern seen on frequency response plots.

Larry

nspindel

09-19-2012, 11:31 AM

I'm digging this thread up from the past for no reason other than to eat some humble pie. I was a complete jerk to George Grand way back when I joined this forum. I'm embarrassed to be re-reading what I wrote 7 years ago. I apologized to George privately quite a while ago, and I now consider him a friend. But I also feel that I owe him an apology in public. George is a highly respected and liked member of this forum, and I completely regret that this conversation ever happened. I would hate for this thread to pop up in someone's google search and be read without me closing the loop on this discussion. I had no right speaking to him as I did, especially as a brand new member of the forum, and I apologize for my actions, however long ago they may be. I'm grateful that George was gracious enough to accept my private apology several years ago, and has been kind to me since. Even so, I wanted to do this out in the open as well. This is completely unprompted, I doubt anyone has read this thread in years, but I have always felt badly about my actions in the years since, and wanted to right my wrong.

zane77

09-19-2012, 10:45 PM

I got into this thread before i realized it was 7 years old, then i couldn't stop reading. I apreciate you bring this back up and closing the gap. I also enjoy reading your opinions on how you have improved your music experiance over the years.

westmassguy

09-21-2012, 08:03 AM