McLoki
04-08-2005, 06:48 PM
A friend is working on upgrading his system and has purchased an SVS sub and a Denon 3905 AVR. He is trying to consider what to upgrade next and has been getting alot of differing opinions from local salesmen compared to what he has read in various places. - The salesmans theory was source is most important, then wires, then reciever, finally speakers. He asked my opinion and this is my reply. I just wondered how unconventional (or just plain wrong) my advice is before I send him out checkbook in hand.......
My reply to his question -
That is a pretty common theme. Work on Source, then wires, then preamp, then amp, then speakers.
I tend to like the reverse of that. Listen to a ton of speakers and find some that you like. Find an audio store that lets you try different speakers with the best amplification that they have. If the store could not get speakers to shine, the best source and amplifier in the world wont help. (keep in mind that in stores like american where there are a ton of speakers in one room are not setup to show the speakers at their best. If you like the sound there, you should love the sound at home) Once you find the speakers you like, take em home and hook em up. If it doesn't sound the same as at the store - start working your way backwards on the list.
Amplifiers can make a huge difference, but not with all speakers. You have to purchase the amp to go right with the speakers. Some amps will work well with all speakers, some speakers with all amps but most speakers work best with a certain brand, type, or power of amplifier. I don't know why it makes such a large difference but it does.
Pre-amps are more stuble and can start to affect soundstage and minute details. I consider them as adding detail, not sparkle. (if it sounded bad before you added the pre-amp - you will just hear more baddness)
Cables I think of as more of a tweaking tool. It can help move the soundstage forward or back - maybe emphasize the bass or highs, but it won't dramatically change your sound. (once again purchase with what you are trying to tweak or correct in mind. More expensive is just different - not better for your situation.)
With most digital sources (dvd, sacd, cd, dvd-a) I would say they have similar effects as the pre-amp, but even more subtle. They are all trying to read what is on the disk and pass it on. I feel you will hit the point of diminishing returns pretty fast. I would say if you have decent mid-grade sources and are getting bad sound - look elsewhere to make it better. If everything is really close, but something is missing - give it a shot.
Its not the most conventional line of thinking for audio, but it makes sense to me.
So, what speakers do you currently have and have you heard them before (at a friends or a store) that almost made it an emotional experience for you? If not - start listening to other options and see what tripps your trigger. If you have and you just don't have the same sparkle that you remember, go back and list what they had that was different than what you have - and start investigating where the difference is coming from.
With the sub and AVR that you have, I would start by setting all your speakers to small and play with the crossover points. Cross over the speakers as low as you can and not create holes in the sound. (60hz or 40hz rather than the typical 80hz - If a speaker review states (I never really trust manufaturers specs all the way)that you get good bass down to 50hz - cross over at 60 - if they say you get bass into the 30hz range, cross over at 40. play with what you have and see what you like and what you don't.
I still say the best gear in the world, won't make speakers you you only like sound like ones you love.
The speakers you really love though will only sound great on sub-par equipment. (ok - depending on the amp it can still sound like crap, but you will hear that as soon as you hook them up - there will be no mistaking it.)
If you want more sparkle, bass, highs - whatever get the speakers that provide that first and then feed them what they need.
Michael
My reply to his question -
That is a pretty common theme. Work on Source, then wires, then preamp, then amp, then speakers.
I tend to like the reverse of that. Listen to a ton of speakers and find some that you like. Find an audio store that lets you try different speakers with the best amplification that they have. If the store could not get speakers to shine, the best source and amplifier in the world wont help. (keep in mind that in stores like american where there are a ton of speakers in one room are not setup to show the speakers at their best. If you like the sound there, you should love the sound at home) Once you find the speakers you like, take em home and hook em up. If it doesn't sound the same as at the store - start working your way backwards on the list.
Amplifiers can make a huge difference, but not with all speakers. You have to purchase the amp to go right with the speakers. Some amps will work well with all speakers, some speakers with all amps but most speakers work best with a certain brand, type, or power of amplifier. I don't know why it makes such a large difference but it does.
Pre-amps are more stuble and can start to affect soundstage and minute details. I consider them as adding detail, not sparkle. (if it sounded bad before you added the pre-amp - you will just hear more baddness)
Cables I think of as more of a tweaking tool. It can help move the soundstage forward or back - maybe emphasize the bass or highs, but it won't dramatically change your sound. (once again purchase with what you are trying to tweak or correct in mind. More expensive is just different - not better for your situation.)
With most digital sources (dvd, sacd, cd, dvd-a) I would say they have similar effects as the pre-amp, but even more subtle. They are all trying to read what is on the disk and pass it on. I feel you will hit the point of diminishing returns pretty fast. I would say if you have decent mid-grade sources and are getting bad sound - look elsewhere to make it better. If everything is really close, but something is missing - give it a shot.
Its not the most conventional line of thinking for audio, but it makes sense to me.
So, what speakers do you currently have and have you heard them before (at a friends or a store) that almost made it an emotional experience for you? If not - start listening to other options and see what tripps your trigger. If you have and you just don't have the same sparkle that you remember, go back and list what they had that was different than what you have - and start investigating where the difference is coming from.
With the sub and AVR that you have, I would start by setting all your speakers to small and play with the crossover points. Cross over the speakers as low as you can and not create holes in the sound. (60hz or 40hz rather than the typical 80hz - If a speaker review states (I never really trust manufaturers specs all the way)that you get good bass down to 50hz - cross over at 60 - if they say you get bass into the 30hz range, cross over at 40. play with what you have and see what you like and what you don't.
I still say the best gear in the world, won't make speakers you you only like sound like ones you love.
The speakers you really love though will only sound great on sub-par equipment. (ok - depending on the amp it can still sound like crap, but you will hear that as soon as you hook them up - there will be no mistaking it.)
If you want more sparkle, bass, highs - whatever get the speakers that provide that first and then feed them what they need.
Michael