Revenge of the Sith (mega spoilers)

[fireshoes]

I said in the other thread, I was really pleased with the movie overall. The action sequence straight out of the gates set the tone for the whole movie. Definitely going to be a great home theater demo! :D Loved it when Anakin killed Dooku!

There were certainly somethings I didn't care for as well. i guess the one that stands out the most was when Anakin saved Darth Sidious. Sidious' face was completely cheesy. I liked how Anakin attacked Windu, leading to Windu's death. Then Anakin said, "What have I done!?" and all of a sudden he's on his knees swearing allegiance to Sidious. I would have liked an exchange between the two justifying the change to the Dark Side. Sidious could have said, "What have you done? You've taken the first step towards a greater power....a power that will help you protect the ones you love and end this bloody war. I can help you complete your transformation." Then it's cool, he's justified in the switch...go kill some younglings lol.

The other part that was kinda dumb was Padme's death. That's fine, she needed to die, but more or less dying of a broken heart is stupid. She should have just been on the brink of death after the force choke and they keep her alive long enough to save the twins. None of that, "There's nothing wrong with her, but we're losing her" crap.

That's just two gripes about the movie, but like I said 95% of it was fantastic.

[MSkeezer]

Just got back from from seeing it. Wow...just wow. I thought it was amazing. Anakin's turn was too fast, I thought. You're right about that. I didn't have a problems with Padme's death, though. The only thing that really bothered me was the pace of the film. It was effin' relentless. It seemed to be over just as it began. Not necessarily a bad thing. I didn't want it to end, and to me, that's what makes a great movie.

[fireshoes]

I wanted it to end because I drank about 72oz of soda before and during the movie. Oh man, it was getting painful at the end. ;)

[Toxis]

Funny, I was actually thinking of creating dual threads for this movie. I like the way you think! :D

My only complaint with the movie is the scene previously mentioned and how bad the rubber mask was on Sidious. That whole scene was painful to watch because of that.

Padme's death... cheezy but what in Star Wars isn't?? Done.

The only question left unturned for me is this. How did Chewy get hooked up with Hans Solo and why did he leave his nation of Wookies?

Other than that, perfect (for a Star Wars). Sure the acting was bad but hey, gotta keep up with tradition!

[MacLeod]

Agreed. I freaking loved this movie!

I agree with the complaint that Anakin turned too fast but then again, Lucas aint much of a director, just one hell of a storyteller.

I didnt have a problem with Sidius' makeup as the special effects of the movie were unreal! The cityscapes couldnt have looked more authentic if they did flyovers of Manhatten! Yoda looked as real as ever! However the peakock lizard looked a little cartoonish.

The best part in the movie to me was when Yoda walked into Sidius' chamber and the 2 guards turned like they were gonna do something and he just turned his hand and sighed and down they went! Funny as hell!

Bottom line is I feel sad and the loss after this movie like I was on the Jedi coucil! I feel like I lost friends and my world has changed!

Also, I noticed no political message in here at all.

Effing loved this movie! 9.75 out of 10!

[gregure]

Originally posted by MacLeod
I agree with the complaint that Anakin turned too fast but then again, Lucas aint much of a director, just one hell of a storyteller.


Not to be churlish, but isn't this more of a writing/storytelling issue than it is a directorial one?

I'm sure it is a fun film, but overall I think Lucas really let us all down. Let's face it, Anakin's turn to the dark side is the crux of the whole prequel trilogy, the entire point of their being made, and to present it quickly and unconvincingly is just about the biggest mistake he could have made in fleshing out the story. He turned to save his wife? He killed all the Jedi children because he wanted the power to save Padme? He committed ultimate betrayal and murder because he trusted a Sith Lord more than his friends? The motivations presented for his turn are very superficial and unrealistic, and they do not lead us to the amoralistic, truly badass Vader of the OT. The reality is that Lucas has become more commercially oriented rather than focusing on the quality of the story. He should have brought Lawrence Kasdan in to write the series with him. Boy, what a difference that could have made.

[lomic]

I'm surprised it didn't get an R-rating, Hollywood tends to be very anti-room-full-of-children-slaughtering. I had heard from a review that the scene was in there, but I thought it was going to be less direct like showing a montage of the various Jedi at the academy before Anakin walks in - but man, that scene was just so stone cold... I don't think I'll be able to look at Vader the same way again, even after his redemption. I've seriously been depressed all day after all the Jedi killing, but that scene in particular.

[Toxis]

Originally posted by MacLeod
However the peakock lizard looked a little cartoonish. was it just me, or did it sound like the creatures from Pitch Black? That kept screwing with me. I was waiting for Riddick to come flying off the wall with a knife.

[mantis]

By far the best of the new 3. It actually makes the last 2 better by linking everything together. So many cool little things they added in.

I was actually shocked. I didn't expect it to do all that.

I don't know why everyone hasn't seen it yet.

Dan

[ohskigod]

got my tickets for tonight online. cant wait. luckily the spoilers mean nothing to me, i just want to see it!!!!!


getting myself psyched up

[Ron-P]

I don't know why everyone hasn't seen it yet.
People. That's why. Too many of them. Once the crowds die out in a month or so I may go see it. It's getting very positive reviews but I remember the same thing happened with the first two as well. I caved, went to the theater and was let down. I'm sure this will do the same so I am in no hurry.

[fireshoes]

It broke the record for one day gross with $50 million, about $6 mil more than Shrek 2.

[fireshoes]

One other negative point....They really made Obi-Wan look like a chump against Dooku in both movies. That's kinda irritating.

[PolkThug]

Originally posted by lomic
I'm surprised it didn't get an R-rating, Hollywood tends to be very anti-room-full-of-children-slaughtering. I had heard from a review that the scene was in there, but I thought it was going to be less direct like showing a montage of the various Jedi at the academy before Anakin walks in - but man, that scene was just so stone cold... I don't think I'll be able to look at Vader the same way again, even after his redemption. I've seriously been depressed all day after all the Jedi killing, but that scene in particular.

Is there more than one version?

I saw:

Anakin walks into the room with all the kids. His lightsaber comes out, then it cuts to another scene.

Awhile later, Obi and Yoda go there and there are kids laying on the ground.

Did you see something different?

Edit: I saw it on film, if that makes a difference.

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by gregure


I'm sure it is a fun film, but overall I think Lucas really let us all down. Let's face it, Anakin's turn to the dark side is the crux of the whole prequel trilogy, the entire point of their being made, and to present it quickly and unconvincingly is just about the biggest mistake he could have made in fleshing out the story. He turned to save his wife? He killed all the Jedi children because he wanted the power to save Padme? He committed ultimate betrayal and murder because he trusted a Sith Lord more than his friends? The motivations presented for his turn are very superficial and unrealistic, and they do not lead us to the amoralistic, truly badass Vader of the OT. The reality is that Lucas has become more commercially oriented rather than focusing on the quality of the story. He should have brought Lawrence Kasdan in to write the series with him. Boy, what a difference that could have made.

I think the thing is that Anakin had been having his doubts as to the loyalties of the Jedi council and was questioning which side was right. Plus I took it as once you step over to the Darkside, which he did by killing Mace Windu, its a slippery slope and the hatred takes you over. At least that was my take on it.

[mantis]

Ron-P,

I can tell you this, if your a star wars fan, you will enjoy this movie. For no other reason, the links and questions you might have had in the past ,will be answered in this movie. Learning and seeing things come together also make the first 2 make more sense.

I'd like to read what you think after you see it.

Dan

[fireshoes]

Originally posted by PolkThug
Is there more than one version?

I saw:

Anakin walks into the room with all the kids. His lightsaber comes out, then it cuts to another scene.

Awhile later, Obi and Yoda go there and there are kids laying on the ground.

Did you see something different?

Edit: I saw it on film, if that makes a difference.

You did see a bit on the security video later, IIRC.

[lomic]

No, we saw the same version, that scene is exactly what I thought was so cold. If he had just walked into the academy, then we saw the bodies at the end that's one thing. But...

Youngling: "Master Anakin - what are we going to do, there's too many of them."
:Blank stare:
Youngling: "Master Anakin?"
:Lightsaber ignites:
:Kids jump in panic:

C'mon, have you EVER seen a movie that shows a room full of children about to be slaughtered, by the person they thought was there to rescue them, no less? I don't remember something like that even in Schindler's List. (Not comparing the two in any way shape or form). I just feel George sufficiently established the evilness without reminding us that 6 year olds were being killed. This is just my critique, and not from a religious or conservative point of view, it just seemed over the top for this movie.

[Nelson57]

This was without doubt the best the prequels. I thought the droid general (forgot the name) was pretty cool, and I agree that Episode 3 does fit with 1 and 2 nicely.

When I watch these movies I just want to be entertained. Sure there will be things left to question, but the entertainment factor tops my criteria, and this one did not let me down. Pretty sure I'll see again within the next week.

Sin City, and Episode 3 have been the two most entertaining films I've seen so far this year. Looking forward to War of the Worlds, Stealth, Fantastic Four, and Batman...

[ohskigod]

loved the movie, not more to expound than others allready have. my only slight complaint was that the movie felt a little rushed overall. Its one of those movies that maybe should have been close to, or over 3 hours. Still loved it though, waa actually little depressed after i saw it, which was the movie's intent.

[wingnut4772]

I loved this movie . It was visually stunning. Of course it was replete with the usual Lucas dialogue and acting caliber but I still loved it. Anakin's transformation did feel a little rushed which is actually kind of funny since it took three films and 6 years to finally get there.

[Zero]

Certainly not a bad flick, will definately buy it when it comes out on DVD.

Sure, I have a huge list of complaints (And Im not even a star-wars buff) - but overall, it was flat out good entertainment.

[mantis]

Just came back after my 2nd time and I love it even more. I don't know if I was excited more the first time or the 2nd.

I guess I will have to go again and figure this all out.

Excellent movie and no let downs for me. I'm in it to enjoy it not pick it apart......

Dan

[PolkThug]

Originally posted by Nelson57
Looking forward to War of the Worlds, Stealth, Fantastic Four, and Batman...

How'd you like the bass in the Stealth preview?! That's gonna be an awesome home theater movie for bass and surround.

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by mantis

Excellent movie and no let downs for me. I'm in it to enjoy it not pick it apart......

Dan


Hell yeah! ;)

[Nelson57]

Polkthug,

Thats exactly what I was thinking when I saw the Stealth trailer. While I will see it in the theater, I was more excited about the anticipated DVD then the theater showing. I found myself saying this should be a great DVD.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I find myself being more let down by sound in the theaters in my area, than many of the movies themselves. I've gotten a little spoiled at home when it comes to sound, I just like to see the big screen sometimes.

[mantis]

You should make your way over to Oxford Valley Pa and hear it in there.

Dan

[Zero]

Ok, I just have to get this rant off of my chest. (not related to star wars directly)

I typically do not travel to the theaters often. Sure, I love the big-screen experience as much as the next guy, its just good atmosphere! However, like so many here have already expressed in the past, it is rare to find an audience that does not distract from the movie itself. But I thought to myself, this is Star Wars 3, its new… surely most the people attending and paying these un-naturally high prices will be fans! I figured I would break my 2 year hiatus from the theaters by going to see Revenge of the Sith!

Suffice to say, I was welcomed by all the aspects of the movie ‘experience’ that I do not like. Teenage boys inviting their un-interested teenage girlfriends along who decide they would rather talk to each other during the whole film and bust out in periodic laughter. On the other side of the theater you could hear older, bored women that communicated with one another in very loud ‘whispers’.

It didn’t end there. I was fortunate enough to have someone bring along their, what I’d guess to be 9yr old son who promptly sat right by me. This kid clearly did not want to see this movie. I don’t blame him, I probably wouldn’t at his age. Like most kids, he showed his boredom by stomping on the ground and doing all the normal things kids do when completely bored. I wasn’t angry at him, just his father. Sometimes though, in order to get your way you gotta bring along the little ones. It wasn’t too bad, but didn’t help things either. Oh, it WAS however annoying, listening to this little white boy speak in the most fake black accent one could imagine.

And finally, I just love it when people bring their cell phones to the movies! No, none rang. Instead, people were playing text-message tag with one another… meaning your eyes were immediately drawn to all the blue/white lights dotting the chairs !

Oh yes, my friend was completely irresponsible and somehow managed to miss hooking up so we could go see the movie ( I paid for his tickets as a gift to him for his last day of work at this one job). Not wanting to throw money down the drain, I called a neighbor to see if he wanted to go. He did. Unfortunately, he too was a pretty big distraction. Between his little watch going off every 30 minutes (which he couldn’t hear) and his constant wheezing - it was just the icing on the cake.

*whew* Ok! I feel a little better now!

[Nelson57]

Glad we could help Zero :)

[lomic]

I went to the first morning show at the local place where the line camp-outs occour every year - because the people who show up for a 9:10am show are the real fans. It was a very good audiance, except one person who was taking camera phone pictures w/flash of the opening scroll... what an idiot. Everyone was yelling at him and he stopped after 2 shots, but you have to wonder what goes through the mind of people like that.

[Strong Bad]

Heading to the glorious Senate Theater here in Baltimore for the 1pm show this afternoon.

You won't find teenage brats whispering, playing with cell phones or playing text message tag. You also won't find little bored brat kids squirming all over the place.

Theater management doesn't put up with shit like that. The people that go to this theater have been for years and respect that it's a national landmark and one of the best theaters in the country. I've never sat through a movie there with distractions.

NOW, Lowes theaters is a completely different story! Had cops escort of group of thugs out of there one Saturday evening because it was "Thug Time" and time to impress the girls by distracting and ruining everyones time!

John

[MacLeod]

Thats why there needs to be a "high end" theater.

One that has excellent stadium seating and digital sound. And charges $20 a ticket! This would keep all the teenie-boppers out as they cant afford it and allow those of us that appreciate the movie going experience to enjoy it.

[Strong Bad]

If ya don't want spoilers, don't read on.







I just got back from seeing it. WOW!!! Incredible!!! This rocked better than I expected. Lucas hands down nailed this one!

CGI was awesome. One part that stood out that didn't need CGI was the Palpatine and Anakin meeting at the Opera. The story of him and his Sith master really does grab ahold of you.

The ending, in my opinion, was priceless! Seperating the twins and seeing them end up where they did and how they did was great! When Obi Wan hands over baby Luke and the Lars stand there looking out over the twin suns....if you're a fan of the original (EP 4 ANH), you're going to love this scene!

Perfect ending in my book!


John

[Toxis]

Originally posted by MacLeod
Thats why there needs to be a "high end" theater.
The Warren in Wichita KS. All theaters were actually designed and tuned by Lucas himself. The big theater has a 4 story screen. VIP areas that serve food and drink (yes even alcoholic) while you sit in your own recliner. I might be wrong, but I think they have DLP projectors as well. That's right... I'm thinking of going down there soon to rewatch Episode III.

[MacLeod]

Oh hell yeah! Thats what they need more of.

In my 33 years on this earth Ive come to the realization that if you want to enjoy something without a lot of punk ass people screwing it up, pay a little more.

Go to a $2 theater and its gonna be like a Rocky Horror Picture Show. Go to a $20 theater and its a whole other experience.

Same with a restaurant. Go to a Chilis and youre gonna have a lot different crowd and experience than you would at somewhere like a J Alexanders.

[bobman1235]

Finally got to see this. Pretty much have the same response as most... WOW. Only complaints (movie-wise) being the quickness of Anikin's turn. I was annoyed by that.

However, my annoyance may have been expediated by the fact that about four different people brought their 4 or 5-year old kids with them to the freakin theater, for an 8:30PM Sunday night showing of Star Wars 3?!! The kid (or kids, I couldn't tell if it was just one of them, I just know I saw several leaving, and had a word wtih all of the parents with them... which was useless cuz none of them even spoke freakin English... I hate the city) was whining and talking throughout the whole goddamned movie. I mean, I can see a few little peeps out fo them, then the parents say "shut up" and they stop. But no, t his was almost CONSTANT whining and bickering. Why can't people just have the slightest hint of respect and consideration for their fellow man? Is that too much to ask?

I think I remember why i started getting into HT - I hate other people.

[Toxis]

I must've got lucky. Only one kid cried and it was for about 15 seconds and that was it. Must've got a nipple to the mouth... works on me. ;) Other than that, everyone was a fan and shut up and listened. Not to bad overall (crowd wise).

[avelanchefan]

I just got back from seeing it. I am excited about it as everyone else here seems to be. When I walked out of the theater all I wanted to do was turn around and pay for another go around.....to me it was that great!!

As for some of the complaints about how fast they persieved Anikans turn to the dark side...well for me I felt you could see it coming the whole time. I felt like everyone in the Jedi council knew he was going to do it, but they were in denial of seeing it. Just my opinion though.

And how about the acting. By far the best since Empire Strikes Back. Natalie and Christian were great! For a Star Wars film they could not have done any better.

I swear some of you may laugh but got a little emotional with the ending. Maybe I did not want it to end, but for the first time in a Stars Wars film their was some real emotion. Seeing Luke, Leia, Yoda and Ben go their seperate ways was almost(ALMOST!) gut wrenching.

But what sold me was seeing Ewan stroke his beard just like Sir Alex did in the first movie. Such a subtle touch but so convincing.

Only thing I was left to wonder was how was Qui Gon Ginn going to teach Konobi to be a stronger Jedi?

[fireshoes]

Does he need to be stronger? He already whipped Darth Vader's ass! ;)

[gregure]

Yoda's instructions to Obi Wan from Qui Gon were in regards to learning how to live on through the force after death, as in Empre and Jedi. This is a Jedi technique that Qui Gon had apparently mastered before death, and had passed on to Yoda through their (unshown) communication after his death, as Obi Wan communicated w/ Yoda and Luke in Empire/Jedi. As Yoda told Anakin, the Jedi way is to celebrate death as the transition to becoming one with the Force. In other words, without the Jedi technique passed on by Qui Gon, even the Jedi become absorbed into the Force, and their individual spirit is lost.

Just saw ROTS tonight by the way. Overall thought it was very good, lots of fun action and some surprisingly dark scenes. Only a few things bothered me, most of all being the entire scene where Mace and the Jedi go to arrest Palpatine, and the subsequent battle. Makes no sense why Palpatine continued to eject bolts when they were being deflected back upon him and eating him away. Really couldn't swallow that one. And, as earlier mentioned, Anakin's unequivocal subjugation to Palpatine after very little real conflict. Yes, they set it up earlier in the series, but it still was more forced and quick than I was hoping for.

Other than that, though, overall it was a good time and much better than the previous two prequels.

I couldn't help but laugh aloud at the end when Vader screamed "NOOOOO!" after learning of Padme's death. So freakin' corny.

[Ron-P]

Ron-P,

I can tell you this, if your a star wars fan, you will enjoy this movie. For no other reason, the links and questions you might have had in the past ,will be answered in this movie. Learning and seeing things come together also make the first 2 make more sense.

I'd like to read what you think after you see it.

Dan

I am a Star Wars fan but 99% of that is a fan of the original trilogy, not so much a fan of this new stuff. I did talk with my neighbors over the weekend and they say (and I've heard this before) that #3 ranks right with Empire or just below it at #3. Better then Jedi and the first 2 of this new trilogy.

I am looking forward to seeing Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy this weekend, taking my daughter to see it. If I have time to see SW this weekend I will but Hitchhiker's has priority.

[DarqueKnight]

Originally posted by gregure
In other words, without the Jedi technique passed on by Qui Gon, even the Jedi become absorbed into the Force, and their individual spirit is lost.

Jedi follow two Force philosophies: (1)The Unifying Force, in which Jedi seek to become one with the Force after physical death and (2) The Living Force, in which Jedi seek to retain their identity after death. Most Jedi were adherents to The Unifying Force philosophy because the Living Force philosophy was construed as a quest for personal power, which was anathema to Jedi ideals.

Qui Gon Jinn's adherence to the Living Force philosophy was a source of friction between him and the council.

I saw the film today during a noon matinee. There were only about 20 people in the theater.:)

I liked it for the most part, but it, like every movie, had some annoying plot holes that left some questions unanswered. I thought this "episode" would tie all the loose ends together and answer all the unanswered questions.:(

1. Obi Wan told Vader in their final confrontation in the Original Trilogy that "If you strike me down, I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine". Obi Wan raises his light saber, Vader strikes, Obi Wan disappears. Obi Wan later appears to Luke in spirit form.

When Qui Gon Jinn was struck down by Darth Maul, he didn't immediately vanish. When Yoda dies of natural causes, he does vanish. Why the discrepancies?

2. Since Qui Gon was so adamant about Anakin receiving Jedi training, and since Qui Gon was able to communicate with those still in the physical realm, why didn't he take a more active role in Anakin's training?

3. At the end of Return of the Jedi, the spirit forms of Yoda, Anakin Skywalker, and Obi Wan are seen. It was not explained how Vader/Anakin learned the "Trancendental Force" technique. Obi Wan certainly didn't teach him. I doubt if the emperor taught him because, at the core, Palpatine considered Vader a threat. Furthermore, considering the tradition of Sith Lords murdering their masters, Palpatine would never teach his apprentice such a technique. Especially since Palpatine admitted killing his master after being taught all that his master knew.

4. It was difficult to accept the bit about Padme losing the will to live and dying of a broken heart. Padme had been portrayed as a strong, heroic, selfless, and compassionate leader. I can't see such a character surrendering her life force over a wayward man, especially since there was nothing physically wrong with her and she had two newborn babies to take care of.

5. Why weren't Obi Wan and Anakin sweating profusely during their battle on Mustafar? Wasn't it very hot there? Why weren't their lungs singed by the superheated air while hovering a few feet above a river of molten lava? The lava must have been several thousand degrees. The air just above the lava must have been several hundred degrees at least.

Aside from the above, it was a nice afternoon diversion.

[Toxis]

Here's something I don't understand.

In ROTJ, with Luke and Leah talking on the bridge, Luke asks her if she remembers her mother. "She was beautiful but often depressed." Leah knows that they're siblings so she must be talking about Padme. How the hell does she know that from a few minutes after being born and remembers it til she was much older???

[Shizelbs]

Maybe she is talking about her adopted mother? Just a guess.

[okiepolkie]

One thing I did like about the movie was Yoda and Palpatine's fight in the senate chamber.

I thought it was very appropriate that Palpatine tore the Republic apart seat by seat, showing no regard for the Republic at all.

Overall, I liked it.

[bobman1235]

Originally posted by Toxis
Here's something I don't understand.

In ROTJ, with Luke and Leah talking on the bridge, Luke asks her if she remembers her mother. "She was beautiful but often depressed." Leah knows that they're siblings so she must be talking about Padme. How the hell does she know that from a few minutes after being born and remembers it til she was much older???

Another explanation I've also heard was that due to the force she had more insight into her mother, either while a fetus or even after she died.

[Strong Bad]

In the original trilogy, Luke had the last name of Skywalker while Princess Leia had the last name of Organa (adoptive parents). Luke knew he was adopted by his Aunt and Uncle (the Lars couple) while Leia may have been led to believe that the Organa family was her real parents (until the truth came out).

Mommy Organa may have died when she was young which would explain her having some memory of a mother, but not necessarily her true mother. Luke on the oher hand knew he was adopted.

Thats the way I see it.


John

[MSkeezer]

I agree. I think it would be rather foolish to tell Leia who her REAL parents were.

[begbie]

From "Yippeeee!!!" to "NNnnooooooo!!!" :rolleyes:

From major disappointment with Episode 1 to frustration to Episode 2, I went in with rock bottom expectations on Episode 3.

Granted there will be bad acting, cheesy dialogue, to CGI overload, all I could hope for is some cool lightsaber fights . - didn't get it-:mad:

The General "badguy" or Grievous fight with Obi Wan showed Obi Wan outnumbered against 4 light sabers (2 that are spinning!) but somehow with 2 or 3 quick edits he sliced his hands off ??! On to a chase scene than the usual "hangin by a nail" and grab the convienent gun nearby.

Mace Windu against Palpatine was a bit better but Windu must've had the lamest Jedis to back him up. They just stood there and took it ?! Than you got Palpatine turning and screaming into a prune face brought on unintentional laughs.

The final battle with Anakin and Obi Wan was still a mixture of quick edits, closeups of the duelers and flashing. Than the "higher ground" thing was just icing on the cake. I mean they must've exchanged the higher ground serveral times or more. Anakin could always do a "force jump" or a fake but whatever the case he simply didn't lose the bout in that situation cause there was so many like it before.

They should've stuck with the fight choreography from Phantom Menace. Or just hire Yuen Woo Ping.

There was so much more that disappointed me but like I said I lowered my expectation and Lucas still didn't deliver. At least there are the likes of Spielberg, Ridley, Peter Jackson, even Yimou that are creating "new magic" in film today.

[PolkThug]

Originally posted by begbie
... but Windu must've had the lamest Jedis to back him up. They just stood there and took it ?!

Yeah, those so-called Jedi were about as useful as the guys with red shirts on Star Trek. Whenever Spock and Kirk would go down to a new planet with four guys with red shirts, you knew the red shirt guys were either gonna get killed or turned into gelatinous cubes.

[DarqueKnight]

Originally posted by gregure
Let's face it, Anakin's turn to the dark side is the crux of the whole prequel trilogy, the entire point of their being made, and to present it quickly and unconvincingly is just about the biggest mistake he could have made in fleshing out the story. He turned to save his wife? He killed all the Jedi children because he wanted the power to save Padme? He committed ultimate betrayal and murder because he trusted a Sith Lord more than his friends? The motivations presented for his turn are very superficial and unrealistic, and they do not lead us to the amoralistic, truly badass Vader of the OT.

The story of Anakin Skywalker is an interesting character study of one man's transformation from innocent youth, to a noble, celebrated warrior, to a cruel, hideous monster, and finally to redemption.

Within the sad context of Anakin's/Vader's life, his motivations for turning to the dark side make perfect sense to me. I see the pivotal point in his life as the murdering of an entire group of Tuscan Raiders, even innocent women and children, as revenge for the murder of his mother. I was expecting Ep.3 to show that Palpatine/Darth Sidious orchestrated Anakin's mother's kidnapping and murder in order to start him down the path to the dark side.

Vader's entire life was one of being powerless and in subjection to others. First he and his mother belonged to Guardalla the Hutt, then they were sold to Watto the junk dealer. Next, Anakin is separated from his mother and drawn into a life of indentured servitude to the Jedi Order. Finally, he spends the remainder of his life under the Emperor's heel.

I can understand the lust for power and turning to the only person who is offering the power to be free and to prevent the loss of the most important person in your life. He only had two people in his life who loved him unconditionally: his mother and his wife. He also looked to Palpatine as a friend, mentor, and even as a father figure.

On the other hand, the Jedi were his "friends" as long as he was serving them. Furthermore, Anakin probably felt that if the Jedi hadn't taken him away from his mother, he would have been able to protect her when she needed him. With these kinds of thoughts undoubtedly running through his mind, it is a wonder he stayed loyal to the Jedi as long as he did.

Ultimately, the Jedi brought about their own demise: (1) They were under duress and their resources were being stretched thin. The Jedi Council knew Anakin was dangerous, but they were willing to take the risk, and even tolerate his arrogant and disrespectful attitude, in order to gain the services of an exceptional warrior. It's sort of like the way the antics of star athletes are tolerated as long as their performance is consistently high calibre. (2) Obi Wan should have (mercifully) killed Vader after he was left burned and mutilated by the lava river. Obi Wan's running off and leaving Vader to die a slow painful death was not very noble. I guess you do things like that when you don't love a person anymore. This confirmed Vader's suspicion that he would be "discarded" as soon as he was no longer useful to his Jedi masters.

[kberg]

I've said in previous posts that I hated all of the past Star Wars movies, but at least I saw them and gave them the chance they deserved to entertain me. And I did it again - I went into the theater to see ROTS, even a bit biased that I was to be once again disappointed, but guess what? This time I wasn't! IMO, this movie stands on its own, tells a great story of who is what and who became what and why, and does it extremely well.

I probably won't ever buy the other SW flicks on DVD because I really don't like them that much, but this one was much different to me, and it ought to make one helluva demo DVD! Yes, I will be buying it.

[Toxis]

Originally posted by bobman1235
Another explanation I've also heard was that due to the force she had more insight into her mother, either while a fetus or even after she died. and Luke didn't know his dad was Vader?? ;)

[DarqueKnight]

Couldn't one twin have more insight and intuition than the other? They were, after all, fraternal rather than identical twins.;)

[Toxis]

Touche.

[gregure]

Originally posted by begbie

Mace Windu against Palpatine was a bit better but Windu must've had the lamest Jedis to back him up. They just stood there and took it ?!


Agree. That whole scene could have been staged much better.
They were all supposed to be Jedi Masters, yet the scene really makes it look like they put up almost no fight at all. Granted, Sideous is powerful, but it is obvious from the film that both Mace and Yoda were more powerful than him, and could have bested him were circumstances different.
Even if he was fighting off Mace's sword, it still really pisses me off that Sideous basically scarred himself with his own lightning. I was really hoping for the story behind his deformity to be more dramatic or cool than that. Like somehow Yoda was able to repel his lightning in their battle and scar him that way. Just thought that whole scene could have been better.

[gregure]

Originally posted by DarqueKnight

I can understand the lust for power and turning to the only person who is offering the power to be free and to prevent the loss of the most important person in your life. He only had two people in his life who loved him unconditionally: his mother and his wife. He also looked to Palpatine as a friend, mentor, and even as a father figure.

Obi Wan should have (mercifully) killed Vader after he was left burned and mutilated by the lava river. Obi Wan's running off and leaving Vader to die a slow painful death was not very noble. I guess you do things like that when you don't love a person anymore. This confirmed Vader's suspicion that he would be "discarded" as soon as he was no longer useful to his Jedi masters.

I think you raise some good points here, but the reality is Lucas wasted 4 hours of film leading up to this point, and was forced to make it happen so quickly as to, for me, make it less than convincing. I liked the scenes between Palpatine and Anakin, however I'm not convinced he could go from "what have I done" after helping Palpatine kill Mace, to slaughtering Jedi children in the span of one scene. It's just too much to believe that Anakin instantaneously could divorce himself of all regard for the Jedi, despite what Sideous had told him. It portrays him as weak minded, as if he can't think for himself. The Darth Vader of the OT never displayed that behavior.

In regards to your comment about Obi Wan leaving him to die a slow death, thus displaying the Jedi's willingness to discard him, I think that's way off. Obi Wan showed obvious remorse before, during and after the battle, and Yoda displayed genuine care for Anakin before his turn as well. Perhaps Kenobi was simply unable to kill Anakin, as he believed him to be dying anyway. Or, perhaps there was a part of him that wanted to see Anakin suffer for what he had done at the Temple. Either way, I think it is taking it too far to say that he was willing to simply discard him. I don't believe there is enough evidence for that.

Thanks for the contribution. Really enjoyed reading your argument. Again, lots of good points there. Lucas gave us enough to piece it together, just not enough to make it fully work dramatically.

[DarqueKnight]

I don't know that Vader's turn happened as quickly as the movie may have made it seem. One disadvantage of movies, as opposed to books, is that a movie director has approximately 2 hours to tell a story that transpired over weeks, months, or years. Telling a story in "compressed" time often means that a substantial amount of time may pass between scenes in a movie. Director's often won't explain the time lapse between scenes unless a gap of months or years has passed.

[begbie]

Originally posted by DarqueKnight
..... Director's often won't explain the time lapse between scenes unless a gap of months or years has passed.

Agreed.

Exactly what Lucas can't do and other better directors can.

[PolkThug]

Originally posted by gregure
Even if he was fighting off Mace's sword, it still really pisses me off that Sideous basically scarred himself with his own lightning. I was really hoping for the story behind his deformity to be more dramatic or cool than that.

Its deeper than you think. His whole goal was to suck Anakin in and get him to go against Mace. He let himself get "hurt" on purpose and played a little opossum. If you recall, after Anakin slashed Mace, Sideous had 100% ass kickin' lightning bolt power.

[PhantomOG]

Originally posted by gregure
I couldn't help but laugh aloud at the end when Vader screamed "NOOOOO!" after learning of Padme's death. So freakin' corny.

my thoughts exactly. the scene putting vader's helmet on was so kickass and then the cheesy "NOOOO" scene just ruined it. i wish they somehow could have conveyed more of an emotional death to Anakin in that scene to tie in to his character in the original trilogy a little bit better.

i too wish Anakin's switch would have been a little less quick and covered more in depth.

[MacLeod]

Yup. I took it that he was always in control. He acted weak and powerless to get Anakin to step in. Notice that once he did he zapped the hell out of Mace.

As far as Mace and Yoda being more powerful, I took it that Mace was not. It took the breaking of the window and the decompression to knock Sidius' sabre out of his hand and even so, he still had 50,000 volts at his call. And Yoda vs Sidius was more of a draw to me.

And the reason Obi Wan didnt kill Anakin? He didnt want to catch on fire!!!

[Toxis]

Windu was every bit as powerful as Yoda. In the meetings, who did the talking? I could've swore somewhere someone said they were equals in terms of power.

[ohskigod]

the starwars.com database says Mace was bested at swordplay by only Yoda and Count Dooku (training i assume).

[gregure]

I agree Sideous appears to have been in control of the situation in terms of predicting the outcome, but I just wish it had been played out differently. Then again, it does fit his character to scar himself for life to if that is what was needed to further his goals.

I still think from the fight it was clear that Yoda was more powerful than Sideous, as he was clearly a better swordsman, and could repel Sideous's bolt blasts. Again, if they had been on level ground, Sideous would have been history. But of course, it was the particular situation that forced Yoda to flee.

[wingnut4772]

Are you saying Sideous had the higher ground?:D

[kberg]

Originally posted by gregure
I couldn't help but laugh aloud at the end when Vader screamed "NOOOOO!" after learning of Padme's death. So freakin' corny.

Yeah, this was definitely a killer. :p

[DarqueKnight]

The film has an overall "rushed" vibe to it. The underlying feeling I got from watching this was that Lucas was (is) tired of all this and was rushing to get it over with and move on to other things.

[MacLeod]

What other things? Star Wars is all Lucas is!

[begbie]

Originally posted by DarqueKnight
The film has an overall "rushed" vibe to it. The underlying feeling I got from watching this was that Lucas was (is) tired of all this and was rushing to get it over with and move on to other things.

Actually I heard he's already scanning for actors in a 100 episode tv series on Star Wars and than tinker the idea of making the trilogy in 3D ?!

He's not finished with Star Wars, doubt he ever will. It's his baby and he'll do every bit to make sure his name/legacy will live on. :rolleyes:

Anyways, his rush to "connect the dots" and leave even more questions unanswered is really just bad directing.

[Toxis]

Originally posted by MacLeod
What other things? Star Wars is all Lucas is! True... Indiana Jones was by far more Speilberg than Lucas anyhow.

I'm still pissed they're making a new IJ. :mad: :rolleyes:

[simm]

Saw this yesterday. My thoughts were best of the 3 new ones but I had issues with several scenes and I believe they have been mentioned already.

- Padme dying so easily

- the quick transformation of Anakin

- the incredibly wimpy " NOOOO" by Vader after being told Padme was dead. This was in fact my biggest disappointment with the movie, it made Vader seem like this big black puss.

- the fact that Obi Wan left Anakin to die- since Obi Wan claimed he loved him as a brother I feel he should have either killed him out of mercy or as a Jedi Master as punishment for betraying the Jedi order.

Did anyone notice how the space ships towards the end of the movie began to look more like the ships in Ep 4 instead of as high tech as they had in the first 2 movies?

[gregure]

Just watched Empire and Jedi last night. They really do have a different feel now after watching Sith. However, I did get to thinking....
In Clones, Anakin was blasted with force lightning by Dooku, and again in Jedi from the Emperor, a full-powered blast strong enough to kill him.
Luke sustained several, long blasts from the Emperor as well. Despite this, neither Luke nor Anakin are scarred or deformed from the Emperor's blasts.
However, the Emperor himself is deformed from his blasts after only about 20 seconds. I find this conspicuously inconsistent.

[DarqueKnight]

I attribute it to the fact that the emperor was receiving reflected blasts at "point blank" range whereas Luke and Anakin received blasts from across the room. I'm sure the energy blasts lost strength with distance. In addition, the blasts Luke and Anakin received were deflected a bit by the thick clothing they wore. The emperor took it full strength, at close range, on bare skin.

Recall that in ROTJ Vader took a direct contact blast from the emperor after grabbing him and just before throwing him down the shaft. That blast was enough to kill him, in spite of the heavy armor he wore. However, I suspect that Vader's death was more attributable to the damage to his life support devices rather than electrocution.

[hoosier21]

Here is a bitch I have. The selective use of the power of the force.

I mean Yoda (and all Jedi) feel and see all this "stuff", every turn it seems a Jedi feels"x" in the force...

BUT!

Anikin doesn't know his mother is truely dying or in great danger?

Dearth Vader doesn't know he has 2 kids?

Dearth Vader doesn't know his young son (Luke) AND Obi-Wan Kenobi are in hiding on the very same planet he grew up on?

Dearth Vader doesn'y know the captured Princess Leia has the force and is his daughter?

[DarqueKnight]

As I understand it, clear insight into the "force" comes through much meditation, which is why Yoda spent so much time in meditation. Anakin was preoccupied with intense Jedi training, which was at odds with his attachment to his mother. Furthermore, the Jedi had lost much of their power to use the force to see into the future.

Vader was preoccupied with subjugating an entire galaxy, hunting down and exterminating the remnants of the Jedi Order, and seeking an opportunity to overthrow the emperor.

Tatooine seemed to be a good place for Luke and Obi Wan to hide.

1. It was far outside of the Empire/Republic and was populated by peole who had no allegiance to, or fear of, either the Old Republic or the Empire. Remember when Qui Gon Jinn said that if Anakin had been born in the Republic, he would have been identified sooner? Also, the the junk dealer Watto refused to accept Republic credits from Qui Gon Jinn because "they are no good out here".

2. Tatooine was a remote, dry, inhospitable world that had no natural resources of interest to either the Old Republic or the Empire, thus, it was left alone. This was one of the reasons why the Hutt used Tatooine as their base of operations for their criminal empire.

3. Tatooine offered a measure of protection due to the principle of "hiding in plain sight".

4. Vader's thought's of his relatively happy former life were probably too painful for him to dwell on. He probably pushed all thoughts of Tatooine, his mother, and his wife as far back in his mind as possible.

[jdhdiggs]

Here's the thing I'm not getting:

Everyone keeps saying how quickly he turned... What? He started with the sand people in two, really started rolling down hill after the Dooku battle and didn't complete his fall until Obi-Wan left his dumb a$$. There was no snap decision. The spelling it out for the youngins was quick, but the fall was much longer than people keep making it out.

That said, the dialog sucked, once again! :mad:

Otherwise entertaining.

[DarqueKnight]

One thing I wished Lucas had spelled out was Anakin's origin. His mother said "there was no father" and that she "didn't know what happened".

Palpatine told Anakin that his former Sith master had learned how to create life from the midiclorians, which alluded to Palpatine's master being responsible for creating Anakin.

[PhantomOG]

Originally posted by jdhdiggs
Here's the thing I'm not getting:

Everyone keeps saying how quickly he turned... What? He started with the sand people in two, really started rolling down hill after the Dooku battle and didn't complete his fall until Obi-Wan left his dumb a$$. There was no snap decision. The spelling it out for the youngins was quick, but the fall was much longer than people keep making it out.


i guess with me it was just the scene with Windu and the Emperor. They made it obvious that Anakin knew he had made a mistake, but then instantly, he just pledges allegiance to the Emperor. Just doesn't make sense to me. Anakin wasn't an idiot. From what I remember that scene was the instant he completely turned, and I just don't see anything compelling enough in that one scene for it to happen that way.

[hoosier21]

OK I am showing how little I know of the Star Wars series (movies)

Was there a Star Wars book or series of books?

[DarqueKnight]

Originally posted by hoosier21
Was there a Star Wars book or series of books?

There were legions of them. Each movie had (has) an accompaning novel. There are scores of "expanded series" books too.

[jdhdiggs]

Originally posted by PhantomOG
i guess with me it was just the scene with Windu and the Emperor. They made it obvious that Anakin knew he had made a mistake, but then instantly, he just pledges allegiance to the Emperor. Just doesn't make sense to me. Anakin wasn't an idiot. From what I remember that scene was the instant he completely turned, and I just don't see anything compelling enough in that one scene for it to happen that way.

The pledging loyalty thing started at the opera, continued when Anikan pulled his lightsaber on the emporer and concluded with that scene. All in all, it was very poor writing for a good story.

[PhantomOG]

i guess rushed is the wrong word then. more or less i'm saying that the character development presented in the movies did not convince me that Anakin would have turned to the dark side when he did. chalk it up to poor writing as you said.

edit: It is *especially* disappointing considering one of the main, if not *the* main point of these 3 prequels is to explain the story of Anakin and how he became Darth Vader. All the fancy CGI and cool light saber battles don't make up for this.

[fireshoes]

Originally posted by hoosier21
Here is a bitch I have. The selective use of the power of the force.

I mean Yoda (and all Jedi) feel and see all this "stuff", every turn it seems a Jedi feels"x" in the force...

BUT!

Anikin doesn't know his mother is truely dying or in great danger?

Dearth Vader doesn't know he has 2 kids?

Dearth Vader doesn't know his young son (Luke) AND Obi-Wan Kenobi are in hiding on the very same planet he grew up on?

Dearth Vader doesn'y know the captured Princess Leia has the force and is his daughter?

Anakin did have visions that his mother was in pain. That's why he and Padme went to Tatooine in AOTC.

[Toxis]

Originally posted by DarqueKnight
One thing I wished Lucas had spelled out was Anakin's origin. His mother said "there was no father" and that she "didn't know what happened".

Palpatine told Anakin that his former Sith master had learned how to create life from the midiclorians, which alluded to Palpatine's master being responsible for creating Anakin. they just explained it right there. Hence why he was so powerful and had this huge amount of midiclorians.

[gregure]

First of all, I don't think that Palpatine's Darth Plageus story should so blindly be accepted as the explanation of Anakin's origin. It is too vague to be a certainty. Plus, who knows if any of what Sideous said about his master was true, considering it was all a ploy to manipulate Anakin using his concern for Padme.

Second, I agree the pledging scene was too rushed. As I've said before, the whole series depended on this plotline, and it was very unconvincing. Anakin going from conflicted to total subjugation in two minutes is very unconvincing, as is his willingness to murder innocent Jedi children simply because his new master says to do so. He pledged his allegiance to save his wife, how does this instantly make him an evil Sith?

Lastly, I still think the Emperor's deformity is just another inconsistency in the plotting of the whole series. That bit about Force Lightning losing strength over distance or being dampened by clothing is simply ridiculous. It's LIGHTNING.

[begbie]

Originally posted by fireshoes
Anakin did have visions that his mother was in pain. That's why he and Padme went to Tatooine in AOTC.


Why didn't the Republic free Anakin's mother towards the end of Phantom Menace? Was the kid's heroics of taking out a huge control ship and saving a planet from being taken over not good enough ? :rolleyes:

The Jedi Council also noted about the child's fear (fearful of his mom's wellbeing) in episode 1. Especially Yoda pointing out how fear leads to anger, hatred than suffering. They should've picked up on this and rescued his mom as well. Their big mistake. Their big loss.


Anyways, just another plothole that we're left to fill in the blanks. Thanks Lucas.

[wingnut4772]

Ok...here we go....

Anakin defeats Dooku while Obi lies unconscious (again) yet Obi-Wan defeats the newly dark side empowered Anakin? I was wondering about that one.

[gregure]

Originally posted by wingnut4772
Ok...here we go....

Anakin defeats Dooku while Obi lies unconscious (again) yet Obi-Wan defeats the newly dark side empowered Anakin? I was wondering about that one.

Yet another inconsistency ignored to serve the plotline. One could write volumes on these inconsistencies.

In regards to not freeing Anakin's mother, this would never have been a concern of the Jedi. Younglings are "given" to the Jedi to be trained as Jedi Knights themselves. Once a child is given to the Jedi, they are trained to relinquish all attachment and are told to avoid personal relationships. They live the life of solitude and meditation, like warrior monks. The parents know when their children leave, they will not see them again. It is a lot to ask of the young Jedi children, and it is obvious that Anakin was not up the challenge. He never mastered controlling his emotions to the point that he could think logically like a Jedi without reacting emotionally.

[PhantomOG]

Originally posted by gregure
Yet another inconsistency ignored to serve the plotline. One could write volumes on these inconsistencies.


with all the hype these "inconsistencies" are very disappointing.

maybe i'm just being too critical of a sci-fi flick. i was too young at the time but i wonder if the original trilogy was held up to such a level of criticism as the new one is today.

despite all my complaints i *did* enjoy seeing the movie. just the windu/emperor scene and the vader "noooo" scene made me cringe.

[sterling bug]

Why is it that Obi-Wan doesn't recognize R2 or C3PO in episode IV when he rescues Luke from the sandpeople? He sure was with them enough in the prequels to not forget about them. It seems there are more questions now that the prequels are done. I did enjoy Sith but Lucas should have hired a real screenwriter and director to handle the prequels.

[jdhdiggs]

Originally posted by sterling bug
Why is it that Obi-Wan doesn't recognize R2 or C3PO in episode IV

Hmm, probably because there was more than one of the R2 models made and multiple protocal droids look similar. Besides, the guy was stuck in the mountains for 20 yrs. He's a little crazy...

That said, we are all dorks!

[sterling bug]

We are dorks thats for sure. Maybe Obi-Wan had his memory erased along with C3PO

[okiepolkie]

If I remember correctly, he says "I don't seem to recall ever OWNING and droids," but it does strike me as odd that he doesn't let on if he remembers them.

[ND13]

Just got to see the movie Sat night. I'm old enough to have seen the original at the theatre on its debut night. My biggest complaint from the first to the last is with all the other big name actors used int the movies, where the hell did they find Mark Hamill and this new kid. There are so many good actors that would have leapt at an opportunity like that. Especially with the prequels, knowing how successful the original trilogy was. Those two couldn't act there way out of a wet paper bag.

For those who thought Anakin's turn was too fast, don't you think that after he kills Windu and says "what have I done" he realizes there was no return to the Jedi ranks without them knowing?

Overall the movie does explain quite a bit. Sure, it could have been done better, but hey I liked it, my wife liked it. and the boys loved it. I can't wait for them to come out with the whole collection in a box set, competely remastered with a shit load of extra scenes or director's cuts. I will avoid purchasing the dvd of this chapter, because it seems that about a month or so after they release the dvd's they always seem to come out with a special edition or director's cut, ala LOTR Trilogy.

[MacLeod]

Anakin defeats Dooku while Obi lies unconscious (again) yet Obi-Wan defeats the newly dark side empowered Anakin? I was wondering about that one.

Well Obi-Wan trained Anakin so he would be the best able to beat him. Second, maybe that was a lucky shot that caught Obi-Wan by Dooko. Third, Obi-Wan didnt really beat Anakin. He jumped off to a higher spot and thus held the higher ground which is more advantageous. Anakin thought he was powerful enough to jump all the way up and over and then land behind Obi-Wan with enough time to strike. He was wrong.

One thing I wished Lucas had spelled out was Anakin's origin. His mother said "there was no father" and that she "didn't know what happened".

Qui-Gon (spelling?) answered that in Phantom Menace. "Its possible he was conceived by the midicloreans."

Why didn't the Republic free Anakin's mother towards the end of Phantom Menace? Was the kid's heroics of taking out a huge control ship and saving a planet from being taken over not good enough

Tatooine wasnt part of the republic and thus didnt have any pull to get her freed except by force.

Why is it that Obi-Wan doesn't recognize R2 or C3PO in episode IV when he rescues Luke from the sandpeople? He sure was with them enough in the prequels to not forget about them.

Like JD said, there were several RS units running around. Couldve been one of a million. Same with 3PO.

Here is a bitch I have. The selective use of the power of the force.

Being strong with the force doesnt mean you know everything. The Jedi didnt know Palpatine was Darth Sideous. It gives you insight but doesnt clearly point everything out. Kind of like a politicians answers at a press conference! :D

[ND13]

Damn Mac,

Those were some pretty good come-backs, you sure your not Lucas in disguise?

[MacLeod]

Nah, just a 100% Star Wars geek! :D

[ND13]

Originally posted by MacLeod
Nah, just a 100% Star Wars geek! :D

That's Cool. We're all geeks about something. I own all thw dvd's but never have found the time to read the books, though.

[Airplay355]

In the beginning of the movie, why does it say "A long long time ago...in a galaxy far far away" A long time ago? WTF? Isn't this supposed to be futuristic movie in the year 9018 or something? And what's a midiclorean? Sub atomic particle? Sub-sub atomic particle? I want chemical formulas or I'm never watching these movies again.


That last question was jut to be a dick, I really want to know about the whole futuristic thing though.

[fireshoes]

Yep, it was a long time ago..they were just more advanced then than we are now. ;)

[Airplay355]

I confused...

[begbie]

Though you'd think someone, anyone, from the Republic or someone from the parade they threw- would know of Anakin's distress over his mother and gather up some coin to free her? It wasn't that hard to buy off Watto was it? Everything on Tattoonie had a price so it was possible if you tried hard enough. Padme had some political strings to pull at the time. Even more reason to do so as she grew closer to Anakin. Surely a backhanded deal could've been worked out.

Plus the Jedi council "could've " freed his mother as well. Yeah, sure that's not what Jedi do but for a talented kid and this fear stirring up in him - this would've cleared his mind and his "chi", I mean force for the better. Even Anakin could've zipped back home and given up his ship to free his mom. If Watto didn't agree, I'd think Anakin could take him.

Bottomline, good movies should flow with ease. They shouldn't have inconsistencies and plotholes for an audience to fill in the blanks or even as I've seen- make up !

[gregure]

"A Long Time Ago, In a Galaxy Far, Far Away" is simply a tool Lucas used to create a completely independent universe that he could manipulate anyway he saw fit. It places the setting and story completley out of the realm of our reality, thus making it immune to realistic or terrestrial comparisons. It also freed him up to create a rich history that did not have to stem from our own.

Regarding Obi-Wan not recognizing R2, again, yet another inconsistency. Lucas wanted R2 and C-3PO in the prequels, but did not work very hard to tie them into originals with any consistency. Simply having 3PO's memory wiped does not explain how Kenobi doesn't remember him, or how R2 doesn't remember Kenobi for that matter. That droid is way too unique and they had been through way too much together for Kenobi to not remember. The argument that there are many droid modes is just grasping for straws. It's simply an unfortunate side effect of making the series chronologically backward, not accounting for these connections when the original was made. And the whole thing about Anakin building 3PO was way too overboard, in my opinion.

As Lucas himself said, the only part of the story that he had worked out at the time he made the original trilogy, were the main plotpoints of ROTS: Palpatine's rise to power, Anakin's turn, the birth of the twins, Anakin and Obi-Wan's final duel. Lucas worked backwards from Sith to fill in two whole movies-worth of exposition, to lead up to Sith, which is probably why they were so poor. He was basically filling up 4 hours with fluff to make room for the good stuff, which turned out to be better, but still not so great (the Vader NOOO and the Windu/Sideous scene being our biggest disappointments, and the two moments that deserved to be the most seminal in the whole trilogy). Again, adding the droids was just another way to fill the fluff with entertainment, but he did not really work too hard to explain away the obvious misconnections in the OT. Just like all the references to Anakin by Kenobi and Uncle Owen in A New Hope, which clearly indicate a relationship between Owen and Anakin, and, I would argue, indication that Anakin and Owen were truly brothers. Another side plot that Lucas totally ignored when creating the prequels.

Why do we all care so much? Because we all love these movies, especially the OT, and the story and characters were so rich and well-thought-out in the OT, especially compared to the Prequels, that it really disappoints us all that we can see all of these problems Lucas overlooked, but he did not address them. The guy has lived with this story his whole life. He certainly had enough time to think of better ways to work all these issues out.

[PolkThug]

Let's tear apart all the inconsistencies in the Bible next!


;) :D

[wingnut4772]

Ha. Lucas must have written that too.

[ND13]

I know we all would have done certain parts of the movies different, but when you're trying to put all the info in a 2 1/2 hour movie, corners will have to be cut. It wouldn't have bothered me if it was a 4 hour movie, but the general public wouldn't sit thru anything that long. Maybe he could have split it up into 2 movies, it definitely would have raked in another billion or so. But all in all, I believe most of us enjoyed all 6 chapters, some more that others, but I will still sit down one weekend , when I have all 6, and watch them in order. Won't we all?

[gregure]

Originally posted by PolkThug
Let's tear apart all the inconsistencies in the Bible next!


;) :D


wingnut4772: Ha. Lucas must have written that too.

Damn funny, guys. LOL. :p

[wingnut4772]

" Yea though we walk through the valley of Mustofar we shall fear no Sith" :p

[Toxis]

Originally posted by PolkThug
Let's tear apart all the inconsistencies in the Bible next! it'd be 20 times longer than the Star Wars list. But let's not go there. ;)

Anyone else see the Bullshit (on Showtime) episode on the Bible? I love that one.

[DarqueKnight]

Originally posted by wingnut4772
Ok...here we go....
Anakin defeats Dooku while Obi lies unconscious (again) yet Obi-Wan defeats the newly dark side empowered Anakin? I was wondering about that one.

Anakin's biggest weakness was his inability to control his emotions (e.g. rushing to confront Dooku and getting zapped by lightning). This weakness negated a lot of his superior fighting ability.

Obi Wan, knowing of Anakin's emotional immaturity and impulsive nature, was obviously taunting him in order to get him to do something rash. Obi Wan's "I have the high ground" taunt was probably said with the hope that Anakin would do something foolish, like trying a "jumpover".

Anakin's leap might have been successful if he had leapt from solid ground. The fact that he leapt from a platform on a liquid (lava) surface meant that the liquid absorbed a lot of the kinetic energy of his leap. He was only able to leap slightly above Obi Wan's head and well within the range of Obi Wan's light saber. Unfortunate, that was.:eek:

[MacLeod]

I contend that it wasnt a taunt. I took it that Obi Wan didnt want to hurt Anakin and was trying to talk him out of fighting anymore.

[wingnut4772]

Me too. He did not really want to kill him.

[ND13]

Ditto...He loved him like a brother. He raised him.

[DarqueKnight]

Originally posted by wingnut4772
He did not really want to kill him.

I agree. That is why Obi Wan mutilated Anakin rather than slicing him in half the way he did Darth Maul. It may also be why he left him for dead rather than finishing him off.

I do not think Obi Wan would try to rationally talk Anakin out of fighting. I would have been a waste of precious time. By the time of their confrontation on Mustafar, Anakin was too far gone past the point of rationality (e.g. murduring innocent children).

Despite whatever feelings he had for the "old" Anakin, Obi Wan realized that the sweet little boy he raised was gone forever and that he now had had a sworn duty to "neutralize" the monster that Anakin had become.

[ND13]

Well all and all, he still ended up being the "chosen one" in the end anyway....

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by ND13
Well all and all, he still ended up being the "chosen one" in the end anyway....

HA!!

You know what, I never thought of that!!

All these years....

That is true, Anakin was the chosen one as he was the one that killed Sideous and brought balance back to the force (nevermind that he destroyed the Jedi first).

Brilliant ND! ;)

[ND13]

Yeah, me and the wife were discussing that on the way home from the theater. It all worked out in the end.

[Toxis]

yeah the whole series of movies revolves around Anakin/Vader. I thought it was pretty obvious that he ended up being the chosen one but they tried to make it seem as if it ended up being Luke. To bad Luke sucks in comparison. :p

[gregure]

Luke never became half the Jedi Anakin was before he turned. At least not that we saw up through ROTJ.

[PolkThug]

Originally posted by gregure
Luke never became half the Jedi Anakin was before he turned. At least not that we saw up through ROTJ.

Like my wife said, "The light sabre battles in episodes IV-VI are painfully slow compared to episodes I-III."

[wingnut4772]

And R2D2 didn't 'hop' out of ships or fly or do half of the stuff he did in his younger days either.

[ND13]

That damn R2D2 is one "bad mother shut yo mouth".

[PolkThug]

Originally posted by wingnut4772
And R2D2 didn't 'hop' out of ships or fly or do half of the stuff he did in his younger days either.

I've got the same problem. Getting old sucks.

[MacLeod]

Me and the missus were discussing this last night whilst watching Return/Jedi.

In Episodes 1-3 the Jedi were nearly superheroes! Whoopin' everybodys ass with those sabres while jumping around and dodging everything. The dual between Obi Wan and Darth Maul, while only 45 seconds is the most incredible sword fight Ive ever seen on film!!

Episode 4-6 are painfully slow in comparison.

But ya gotta understand, the techonlogy and special effects have come along way in the 20 years since Episodes 4-6.

Gawdamighty! Can you believe its been more than 20 years since Jedi???

[begbie]

Originally posted by MacLeod



But ya gotta understand, the techonlogy and special effects have come along way in the 20 years since Episodes 4-6.




Don't mean to sound sarcastic but.......thanks for pointing that out ! I never noticed that ! ;)







Not the best ever sword fight on screen but I agree the Darth Maul vs. scene is the best of the trilogies. They should've stuck with the same choreography throughout. ESB probably had the most emotional fight with Darth and Luke.

[MSkeezer]

Rick McCallum answered questions yesterday on a Hyperspace chat session. Here is a summary of what was discussed. He answered a couple of questions that I know some of you had...


No deleted scenes confirmed onto DvD yet but there will be some, Rick is talking to George about it on monday.

Liam never recorded any lines, idea was thrown arround but never followed through.

He wants to be involved in the TV serise but hasent been discussed further.

He tells us to watch Ep3 in as many different theatres as possible to make sure that Anakin is crying while killing the younglings. (make more money)

NO Prequel to a prequel.

He thinks that Palpatine created Anakin not Plagueis. (only George knows for sure)

Adding the Noss monstor to the list of deleted scenes he'll be talking to George about.

Empire is still Rick's fav, the last 45 mins of ROTS are almost perfect for him.

Rick wishes he could go back and introduce the general in AOTC.

He's seen the movie with a audience 8 times in 8 different countries.

Palp's voice changes in the Mace duel alot because he's going through a lot of changes during that scene, also because of all the takes they did.

Still working on the Indy script.

Rick wants to be involved with the 'Red Tails' project and George is 'very serious' about making it.

Rick said he'd absolutely go to a celebration IV.

1138 was in dialogue in ROTS but was cut out.

Bootleggers watch your back the FBI is on to you.

No.more.SW.movies.by.George. Though Rick wants to make ROTS part II with Vader destroying everything.

They are hoping to get VFX, production design and costume design Oscars.

George being in EP3 was the best easter egg for Rick.

Palps being a part of Simi's death is still a mystery, only George knows.

Saga on dvd wont be this year, and to early to tell.

3D versions of the films in a couple years.

Again only George knows how Leia remembers her mother.

There hasent been enough time to talk about the TV serise but once they have some confirmed info then Rick will be back with another chat.

DVD - Deleted scenes, great documentaries, time-lapse video of Rick gaining 60 pounds over 3 years.

Rick cant answer about Yoda being digital in TPM withought being shot although he did say "but easy the future is to see for you."

Ian for best supporting actor says Rick!

Palps is definately faking it when he says he's to weak to continue against mace but before that is another matter, hoping George will make a comment about this on the commentary.

Rick McCallum (still) loves you!

Hayden and Sam went ape**** when they first saw the film.

ROTS got a 15 min standing ovation at Cannes.

Rick seems to be pushing for the TV serise to be made so he doesent loose a job.

Palp's crinklebutt look is the true face of Sidious, he needs a bit of lightning for it to come out of him.

Rick was photographed peeing twice at C3. (eww)

Hayden's barbaque is the most emotional scene in EP3 for Rick.

Padme was always going to die in ROTS.

Rick is the clone trooper that goes flying out of his exploding craft in the opening space battle.

Bai Ling would not have been cut from the movie if she showed Rick her birthday suit.

Obi-Wan doesent have a drink problem, drugs another story...

Rick's favourite line of dialogue is when Obi-Wan says that Anakin was like a brother to him.

[DarqueKnight]

Brilliant marketing strategy. Just brilliant. Bravo!

A lot of people think the plot holes in Lucas' SW movies are due to bad directing and poor writing. I think it's due to expert marketing. The movies were not written to be "stand alone" pieces of cinematic art. They were designed to be "teasers" in a vast jigsaw puzzle of websites, books, toys, video games, and other associated merchandise.

First you pay $5-$8 for a movie ticket. But, the movie whets your appetite for more because it leaves large, gaping holes in the story. Are you a frustrated fanboy/fangirl? Not to worry, Darth Lucas has a whole realm of special insight available at the SW Hyperspace website where you will be given special, inside information to fill in the gaps. The cost for this special insight is only $39.95 per year. Of course, much of your thirst for answers will be satisfied in the realm of SW Hyperspace, but not all, because something has to be left for the SW novels, which vary in price depending on whether they are the "cheap" paperbacks or the "collector's edition" hardcovers. Certainly, if you are a true fanboy/fangirl, you would not insult Darth Lucas by just getting the paperback, you want the hardcover edition at $20 to $25 a pop.

After all this, you still only have about 90% of the story. That's because something has to be left for the super deluxe "director's cut" edition box set DVD collection. This collection will have plenty of extra features and a "director's commentary" track that might give the remaining 10% of the mystery. Maybe, the deluxe DVD set will only tell 5% pf the remaining 10%. A true artist always holds something back, "just for himself", and besides, that remaining 5% mystery might be just enough to fuel a worldwide demand for a spinoff television series.;)

I'll pass on the HYPE(er)space website membership and the rest of the associated merchandise. Since Lucas did not want to provide a totally satisfying cinematic experience, I prefer to use my own imagination to fill in the plot holes and other deficiencies. That way, my satisfaction is guaranteed.;)

[MacLeod]

TV series? :rolleyes:

[Ron-P]

My wife and I saw it last night, for free, about all this movie is worth paying the price for.

About the only redemption this film has are its tiebacks to the original trilogy.

I wanted to like it and tried. Coming off the half way (can't even really say decent) Attack of the Clones, I thought I was in for better, sorry, but this one is not much of an improvement over The Phantom Menace.

My final ranking of all 6...

1. A New Hope
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Attack of the Clones
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. The Phantom Menace

This is Star Wars for kids and an entire different generation then mine. It is nothing like, and lacks everything the old trilogy is.

The space battles were a cluster of disaster. Way too much going, they had no drama, no tension, and no engagement. It was hard to tell who was who. Lucas just wanted as much on screen as he good get. Sometimes (as in A New Hope) space battles done simply are the best. Even the surface battles were messy and weak.

All the light saber battles (less Anakin and Obi Wans) were too quick and poorly done. The one with Anakin and Obi Wan, way to drawn out and boring.

The acting, just as bad as the previous two. Nothing there, just cardboard people reading their lines (or phoning them in). No emotion to make me want to care about any of them.

The dialogue, again, just as bad as the others. Between Anakin and Padme, bad, just plain bad. So much wasted time on useless dialogue in this. Lucas could have cut and hour from this film and made it better.

Seeing Vader on screen again was great and about the only thing in this film that was decently done, less the "NOOOOOOOOO" scene. Laughable.

But ya gotta understand, the techonlogy and special effects have come along way in the 20 years since Episodes 4-6.

Come along way down hill. The effects in the old trilogy looked so much more realistic. This new stuff lacks depth and it's too clean and shinny and looks like a cartoon. The old stuff looked real and still does for the most part.

I've seen them all and will re-watch the old trilogy countless times. This new trilogy will sit on the shelf and collect dust.

[MacLeod]

My ranking would be

1- The Revenge of the Sith
2- The Phantom Menace
3- Attack of the Clones
4- Empire Stikes Back
5- Return of the Jedi
6- A New Hope

This is unlike me cause usually Ill go with the stuff I grew up on but the thing that sells it for me is all the Jedi badassness. Plus Im a fan of CGI. Stop motion and puppets dont get it for me anymore.

[Frank Z]

Okay so I'm a little late to the party, but...

Took the family to see Ep.III today, and aside from being broke after paying for a few drinks and bad popcorn, we had a great time. The theater was about half full and everyone there actually behaved like normal human beings.

Great movie, definetly the best of the bunch (the current crop that is). I'm really looking forward to seeing this on my big screen.

[shack]

Finally went to see this one this afternoon with my two daughters(first theater visit of the year). Very well done. Ties the two trilogies together well. I'm not the purist Ron is so all of the CGI is fine with me. A thouroughly enjoyable flick and a purchase as soon as the DVD comes out. Now I'm ready for the sequel trilogy George talked about many years ago.

[MacLeod]

Ill definitely be standing in line the day this is released on DVD. I just hope Lucas pulls something like only making it available in with Episodes 1 & 2 as a box set as he did the DVD versions of Episodes 4,5 & 6. :rolleyes: