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BrentMcGhee
05-23-2005, 05:20 PM
I just recently started to get into the world of records but i had a question about the volume output of turntables. When i play cd's i have my volume knob at about 10 o'clock and it is blowing me away..... but when i hooked up my record player and began to throw on a few records i realized that i was having to turn my knob to about 12 o'clock to get just decent volume levels.

Is this normal or am i doing something wrong here???

michael_w
05-23-2005, 05:25 PM
Is your turntable hooked up through a phono preamp or a specified phono jack on your receiver / pre?

BrentMcGhee
05-23-2005, 05:31 PM
my player has a phono pre-amp built into it but i am bypasing that because i am plugging it into phono jacks on my receiver

jcaut
05-23-2005, 05:36 PM
Keep in mind that most CD's are recorded WAY-loud. I don't think it's unusual for a turntable to require a higher volume setting for similar output levels. It will vary somewhat depending on what cartridge you're using, as some have higher output levels than others, and on the amount of gain in the phono preamp.

Jason

RuSsMaN
05-23-2005, 05:39 PM
What type of cart, Moving Coil, or Moving Magnet?

BrentMcGhee
05-23-2005, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by RuSsMaN
What type of cart, Moving Coil, or Moving Magnet?

HaHaHa :) i have no idea what you said... i seriously started to mess around with records 2 days ago, i would like to know though.




Jcaut if you say that a record is going to be indeed softer than a cd is i guess i do not have a choice to turn my volume upwards of the 12 o'clock mark and sometimes further on a really good song. Is there any danger to my speakers/amp when it is turned that far. (assuming my amp does not start to clip wich i have not heard any audible evidence of yet and i had it as far as 1 o'clock a few times since i have been listning to records over the past two days

BlueMDPicker
05-23-2005, 06:00 PM
Try it without by-passing the built-in phono pre. It's not going to hurt anything, just turn the volume down and ease into it.

Identifying your turntable/player will help others here in answering your questions.

Mike

Crazed
05-23-2005, 06:10 PM
What brand of turntable is it? What is the brand and model of the cartrige? Have you tried running it through the pre amp in the turntable into the receiver?

It really sounds like it needs more pre-amp. I would hate to see you have to push your receiver to 12:00 or 1:00 on a frequent basis.

BrentMcGhee
05-23-2005, 06:12 PM
http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/showcase/view.php?userid=64016

that gives the model number of my record player... i do not remeber it off the top of my head

BlueMDPicker
05-23-2005, 06:28 PM
Sonys PS-LX250H Fully-Automatic Turntable offers you a way to save your LP records from extinction. Featuring a Fully Automatic Operation, Built-In Phono Pre-amp, 33-1/3 and 45 RPM Speeds, and a Belt Drive System, and a supplied Moving Magnet Phono Cartridge, the PS-LX250H is perfect for playing your library of classics.

aaharvel
05-23-2005, 06:47 PM
i think jcaut is right. CD's are recorded MUCH higher than your average vinyl record.

I just got into vinyl for the 1st time myself - bought just a simple AudioTechnica turntable- since my H/K 235 doesn't have phono jacks- i have to use the pre-amp stage in the turntable.

For your volume concern- it's prob. just the differences in mediums- i have to turn my h/k up higher for vinyl as well.

The only other thing you can do besides get used to it (and you will) is use the pre-amp stage in your turntable and hook it up to your receiver in like "TAPE IN" or "DAT IN" or whatever audio auxilary in- it might make a difference- but prob. not.

good luck!

(edit) nice receiver Crazed.

Spawndn72
05-23-2005, 06:49 PM
EDIT for being a moron. I was wrong. Sorry.

BrentMcGhee
05-23-2005, 07:03 PM
thanks guys....

i will try using the phono preamp in the player instead of the one in my receiver and see what happens

BrentMcGhee
05-23-2005, 07:20 PM
ok i just finished going back and fourth a bunch of times between using the phono preamp in the recevier on in the record player.

When i used the one in the record player according to my spl meter it yielded about 3-4db more volume than using the one in my sony es receiver.

But now this really makes me think... ok so one of them is louder than the other, but wich one is doing a better job (the on in my player or the one in my receiver) or does it even matter they both produce the exact same audio quality just one does it 4db louder than the other???

michael_w
05-23-2005, 07:23 PM
that's for your ears to decide...

I would do an a/b test again but try and use that spl meter to keep them the same volumes to make it fair.

Dennis Gardner
05-23-2005, 07:30 PM
Unless you are hooking into a CD input (line level) from your TT preamp, you are using both preamps.

TT preamp into CD input compared to bare TT into phono input.

This is the only comparison that has them seperate.


Was that confusing enough?:D

BrentMcGhee
05-23-2005, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Dennis Gardner
Unless you are hooking into a CD input (line level) from your TT preamp, you are using both preamps.

TT preamp into CD input compared to bare TT into phono input.

This is the only comparison that has them seperate.


Was that confusing enough?:D

No not at all.... i was doing that.

When i was using the phono preamp of my receiver i plugged it into the phono input and turned it off on the player.

WHen i was using the phono preamp of my player i plugged it into tape in and turned it on on my player.

It is hard to do an a/b test like that though. haha - hook one up listen a bit then turn off receiver, turn off record player, switch inputs on back of receiver, lift up platter of player to flip the pre amp switch, turn everything back on, listen again.

Kinda defeats the purpose of an a/b test dont it :)

I think i like the sound of using the one in my receiver though, it sounds kinda tinny when i was using the one in the player.

aaharvel
05-23-2005, 07:43 PM
use the pre-amp stage in your turntable- no question.

Phono jacks on todays a/v receivers are simple afterthoughts more often than not.

Dennis Gardner
05-23-2005, 07:51 PM
Sorry that I didn't understand how you were bypassing the TT pre. You could always run both together to get the volume you need but it may cause more noise in the sound path than you like. Each time you amplify, you boost the noise floor some.

This would look like:

TT cart to phono preamp to receiver preamp to power amp.

3 levels of amplification in line between the needle and speakers.
Definately not the hifi method, but volume needs are met.

BrentMcGhee
05-23-2005, 08:04 PM
thanks everyone... i think i am just going to invest in some power amps so i can take the strain off my receiver and have plenty of head room to get the volume i want, even out of vinyl.

jcaut
05-23-2005, 11:04 PM
You're on the right track, with the power amp idea, but
just to try and clear up a possible point of confusion -

Unless there's something I'm missing, your receiver's amp should have the same amount of headroom, regardless of the actual setting on the volume control-- It's signal-level dependent, not volume control dependent. Make sense? You're not taxing your amp any more by having to set the control to a higher level in order to acheive the same output level. As long as there's enough gain in the phono pre and preamp stage to drive the amp to full rated output, the setting on the volume control really doesn't make much difference. There are some noise-floor issues there, but I think they're insignificant in the overall scheme of things. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this, 'cause I don't mean to be a source of misinformation!

Jason

Dennis Gardner
05-23-2005, 11:38 PM
You're right Jason. They are input dependent.

Hell, my volume control is infinite(No stops), I guess I can crank as high as I want.:D

BrentMcGhee
05-24-2005, 12:27 PM
yeah that does make sense...