Time for a Change!

[dkg999]

With the tax return in and the numbers made for the annual bonus payout at work, it's time to seriously consider some new main speakers for my 2 ch. system. I am currently using my SDA 2A's that I bought new in 1985. I have installed the upgraded tweeters. I also have a mint pair of Monitor 10B's with the upgraded tweeters. My budget is around $2000. My preference is for floorstanding speakers, but not necessarily a requirement. The speakers I am considering include:

Magnepan 1.6QR w/Mye Stands
Dynaudio Audience 72SE
Spendor S5E
Totem Arro
Spendor S8E (used)
Magnepan 3.6 (used, not sure I have the room or amps to do these justice!)
Totem Forest (used)

These look to be in the price range buying new, I am not opposed to buying used in good shape from reputable sellers that are close enough to Chicago or Des Moines IA that I can preview and pick up and not have to ship. Available equipment includes a Parasound PHP-850 pre-amp and a pair of Parasound HCA-1500A power amps as well as a Parasound HCA-1000A power amp. I am having a challenge finding a dealer in the Chicago area that actually has the 72SE in stock to listen to. There is actually a Totem dealer in the Quad-Cities that stocks most of the Totem line, and I have not listened to them yet but have heard very good things about them.

I'm looking for your opinions on other speakers I should consider, or your opinion on the ones listed, and on the ability of the Parasound amps to do justice to the speakers. An amplifier upgrade isn't in the near future plans. Upgrading my pre-amp may be.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!

[janmike]

If you have not listened to Proac speakers, do it. You may or may not like them, but listening is free. I have heard that these speakers sound best when driven by tube equipment.

[Zero]

Change can be good, and in this case – VERY good!

To better serve your post, we may need some basic information about your listening habits and space. What genre of music do you enjoy listening to? What is the size of your room, and is it open to hallways/other rooms, or is it closed? This will greatly impact what will and will not work in your room.

First and foremost, I believe most of these products listed (save for perhaps the Maggies and the Totem Forest) will come into their own in a smaller sized listening space (NO bigger than 15x15).

At 2 large, you have a LOT to choose from! Man, I wish I was in your position right now! =)

As always, let YOUR ears be the guide, but since you asked, I would like to share *my* very *unprofessional* (disclaimer, all that stuff) experiences with some of the stuff listed below;

First and foremost, I have no comment on Maggies. No experience with them at all, but it is not that hard to find a plethora of happy owners and reviews that feature direct comparisons to other similar priced products. Check audiocircles and the audio asylum. There are also a few people here who own or who have owned Maggies, including the 1.6 if memory serves me well.

The Danes are a great choice if you are looking for a practically full range speaker that is pretty coherent from top to bottom. I would say that the two Danes I have heard (owned the contour 1.1 monitors) are on the forward side of neutral. Lots of detail, plenty of mid-range, and plenty of very tight and tout bass. This brand has lots of respect and for good reason. Popular equipment to use with any higher end Dynaudio product falls along the lines of Krell, Bryston, Marsh, BAT. A lot of users (including our own PjDami) prefers to use his Danes with solid state amplification with a tube front end (with many vouching to use a tube pre). It may take some decent cash to afford equipment to complement the 72 SE’s well.

My experience with Spendor is pretty limited to the LS 3/5 and the S5e being powered by all Rogue tube equipment with a Rega Jupiter front-end. There is an over-all brilliant, and haunting aspect to both male and female vocals, which is a GOOD thing! However, I did not like what this speaker did to horns and piano, let alone to any synthesized instrument. I really tried to like these speakers as they carry such a great reputation, but I left feeling like I just watched a bad movie. Again, my experience is limited with these products.

Ah, Totem, now that’s my territory. One nice thing about Vince’s products is that there is no product line. You may prefer the $1g Arro to the $10g Shaman. One thing all of Vinces products have in common is that it takes the right room and the right equipment to really hit their ‘magic’.

The Arro is an incredibly tiny speaker that a five your old child could lift, yet it sports an amazing sound-stage that you would come to expect from a huge Maggie sized product. The arro is tipped upwards along the high-end. Some call this an attribute, others refer to it as fatiguing. You be the judge. The Arro is a fantastic choice for someone in a small bedroom who enjoys great detail, very controlled bass, and a layered sound, all from a 5 inch wide ‘tower’. Like the Dynaudios, it can handle every type of music with grace.

The Forest takes quite a bit of experimenting to get right. This speaker enjoys a medium sized room with electronics from the likes of BAT and LAMM. *VERY* pricey stuff. This speaker has great dynamic range and in my opinion, when matched up as described above, offers an over-all much more emotional connection to the music than the Danes. If you cannot afford the options listed above than I would stay away from the Forest, as it otherwise can sound very dry and sterile.

In the Totem line, I encourage you to look at the Sttaf, and the Hawk. I chose to stick with the “sttaf” as it offers me something no other speaker I have heard can. The HAWK is the best value that Totem Acoustics has to offer, and arguably one of the best speakers to have ever come from Vince. Idealy, you would want to run the Hawk with Rega equipment, and if you can afford it, some high end McIntosh (6900 integrated).

I would like to throw in another suggestion into the fray; the Reference 3A MM De Cappo and the Jean Marie Reynaud Twin MK III’s. No they are not towers, but they are KILLER monitors. With such a low price on the MK3s ($845/pair) it is worth a consideration if you can find a local dealer, or a place that will give you a 30 day trial period.

At this price, the suggestions are endless as are the opinions on each piece of equipment. This is *my* take on the matter! Good luck, and let us know where you end up!

[dkg999]

Zero - I really appreciate you taking the time to provide all the feedback and suggestions! Upgrading the electronics will happen, it just won't happen in the next year or so. I will check out your suggestions! Even in the Chicago metro it seems hard to find dealers with some of the more niche lines of speakers. I'll keep searching. Another speaker I hadn't considered is the EPOS M22 floorstander. I absolutely love the sound of my EPOS ELS3's that I have in the bedroom.

Musical Tastes: runs from heavy metal (current and 70's) to alternative to folk/vocals and acoustic. Very little country, except for the man in black. Right now I am listening to the new Seether CD, and next up is Gordon Lightfoot, then probably Mindy Smith or Joss Stone. You now see the challenge!

Room: Right now I am in a small apartment. In the late fall I will be in a new place with the 2 ch. system in a room that will be about 18 x 20. I am a single parent, so now WAF to get in the way of speaker placement. The placement just has to be kid-proof! I don't tend to listen at high volume levels anymore.

Tonal Preferences: I have high frequency hearing loss from growing up on a farm prior to worries about what loud farm equipment would do to your hearing. Speakers that are a little on the warm side per others perceptions tend to sound about right to me. I like nice tight bass, and clear mids. Soundstage is a real concern, hence why I like and have kept my SDA's so long.

I would prefer to get more speaker than my current amplifiers can do justice to. I plan to upgrade my pre-amp in the next 6 months or so, a tube pre-amp or hybrid pre-amp may be in order. Unfortumately I tend to listen to music in short sessions due to work and kids, so tubes really don't fit into my routine, they are a little high-maintenance for me right now. I was running the Parasound HCA-1500A's with a friends set of Spendor S5e's and they seemed to do just fine. I could not tell a real difference between them and his Classe amplifier, at sane volume levels! Unfortunately his S5e's had lots of problems stemming from a container that was dropped hard, although Spendor did a fantastic job of quickly replacing them and making sure he was happy. So I will be going down to Saturday Audio in Chicago to give them a fair listening session.

Thanks for all your help!

[Frank Z]

LSi's

[Zero]

Dk,

Not a problem. I hope you can approach this in the manner this hobby was meant to be in the first place, fun! Thanks for sharing the information that will help us gather an idea on what to narrow down!

First, your taste of music is easy enough to work with and will definitely help in leading you towards a speaker that can handle your genre’s with grace. Let us go down the list again, shall we?

Protecting the little one is always and should always be priority numero uno. Light-weight floor standers can easily tip over. Monitor speakers can fall off their stands. How old is the kid?

Spendor S5/8E. Either model should adequately fill up an 18x20 space. I am sure you would be pleased with their performance when it comes to folk and vocal performances. However, heavy metal is not their forte. Can they do it? Sure. Can they do it as well as the competition? Not hardly. Its just not their gig. Also consider the small size of the speakers and how easy it will be for wondering little fingers to reach. They are modestly stable, so you may have to keep a close eye on junior when in the room.

Totem Arro. As stated above, this speaker enjoys a smaller setting. Typically it does not fair well in larger rooms. In this case, placement should be only a foot and a half to two feet from the back wall. Purchasing a sub (Totem, Rel) may allow for more placement options and give you a full range presentation. The Arro can play the genres you require with ease, but it may not sound full in your space. It is also physically unstable. Filling it sand will help, but I wouldn’t run the risk. It too is low to the ground and within easy reach of little fingers.

Totem Forest. This speaker should be right at home in your room and can do great justice to your taste in music. It is a stable product but still low enough to be in danger of your kids fingers. If you enjoy their sound and can budget the gear necessary to bring out the ‘magic’, this could be one to look at. Note however, that Totem uses unique finishes and marks to the wood/mdf will be very difficult to mask.


Dynaudio Audience 72SE’s. I actually think these may fit the bill better than anything else (save for perhaps the Maggies). While they would love a Krell amp/integrated, you can get away with running some of the bigger ROTEL amps and achieve great results. They can rock, and then do folk with vocals without a problem. They are also nearly full range so given your listening habits, you may not require a sub at all. These are not on the ‘warm’ side of things, but I definitely feel you should put these at the top of the aforementioned list!

A lot of people with your tastes favor Klipsch (the heritage or reference line). It is not for everyone, but if you like it, nothing else will tackle your fancy like those horns.

The SDA’s are still my speaker of choice for LIVE, rock performances. They image like no other I have heard before and can fill a large room up with absolute ease. Hell, its what they were designed for! I would not expect you to find anything that can re:create their imaging (sound-stage), but some speakers can sound pretty convincing just the same.

Lastly, I want to make one note on the subject of tubes. You claim your listening sessions are short and you don’t want to mess with it. Unless you intend on buying a tube amplifier, then you can put your concerns aside! Any decent tube based pre amp / dac/ cd player should last you at least a year! And this is with constant use, using very shoddy tubes. Considering how minimal your system will be used, and if you get good tubes, you should be set for YEARS. No biasing, no nothing. Don’t throw out this option!

Ok, I think I have said just about all there is I could say about the above speakers and situation! Best of luck in the hunt!

[danger boy]

this may seem like a unusual route to take if you're looking for different mains.. or you could also use these in a two channel only set up to replace your current SDA 2's.

I've only had my SDA SRS's for a pretty short time...and i've not heard all of the other SDA's. I have to say the SRS's have a big wide soundstage... maybe bigger then the SDA 2a's. If you like the SDA sound a lot.. then maybe "upgrading" to the SRS would be where you should go.

Friday night I had a fellow audio lover over to listen to the SRS's... he was floored.. he had NEVER heard anything that compares to what he was hearing. He couldn't put into words really how good the sound was. There again.. many people have said... that with the SDA's they hear things in music they've never heard before.. I have to agree.

anyway.. just a thought. Good luck with your new fronts. It's fun to demo new speakers.

[TroyD]

I'd opt for the Maggie 3.6's.

BDT

[dkg999]

Thanks for all the information and help!!!! I forgot to mention that I already have the SDA SRS's at my house at the farm in IA. I need to get brave and rebuild the cabinets, as I picked my pair up from an insurance auction after the floods of '93, along with another pair for replacement and spare drivers, cross-overs. The particle board and MDF in the cabinets needs serious help at this point and they are now tucked away in storage. I was driving them with a pair of GAS Ampzilla mono-blocks. Maybe the answer is to rebuild these and use them! I was looking for something newer, not for any really good reason other than I was thinking I should try some speakers built in the current decade:rolleyes: I am going to try to audition the Dynaudio and the Totem. I have never been a big Klipsh fan, I briefly owned a pair of Heresey's once and the horns didn't do it for me!

TroyD - since owning a pair of the original Maggie Tympani 1's I have had a thing for Magnepan's! I traded them for a pair of Dahlquist 10's. The 1.6's may be the answer, although I really do want the 3.6's, I just can not justify dropping the $4200 they want for a new pair. If I can snag a good used pair under $3000, this might be the way to go.

Time to go road tripping to listen to some speakers!

[dkg999]

And the winner is ................ Maggie 1.6QR's!

I listened to a lot of speakers, and I just kept coming back to the Maggies as the sound I really liked. I have to say the Dynaudio's are incredible, and if I wanted to put the money into the amps and source that they really deserve, they would of been the first choice. The Spendors were OK, but seemed to fall down with certain types of music. I listened to some very expensive Revels, that I just don't get why they cost so much because they don't sound like they should be an expensive speaker. The B&W's were very nice, however the ones I liked were not anywhere near my price range. The biggest surprise was the EPOS 12.2's and the 15.2's. I love my ELS3's, and the rest of the EPOS line is just as good, at least to my ears.

I didn't go for the Mye stands yet. The dealer in Des Moines had a demo pair with Mye stands, and a pair without. On an A/B comparison I just couldn't tell a difference. I got the dark gray with the dark cherry wood sides. I'm really looking forward to getting these broke in!

My SDA 2A's that have served me well since 1986, and have the upgraded tweeters, will go into storage for a while. For loud rock&roll my Monitor 10's (also with the upgraded tweeters) will be on-call.

[dorokusai]

Stop wasting time on monkey coffins, start thinking out of the box. If you want something truly different, go Magnepan, Apogee, Carver, Martin Logan, etc.

Be different. Good luck.

EDIT: Just read the last post, great choice, have fun. The MYE stands are top notch as I've owned a couple pairs.

[dkg999]

Doro - no question on the build quality of the Mye stands, or their cosmetic appeal. I was really surprised based on comments that I have read that in a side-by-side A/B comparison with same source, amps, and cables, that I could not really tell any difference. I will probably get the Mye stands at some point, as I do like the looks and concept.

[dorokusai]

I wouldn't expect a noticeable improvement per se, but it is a much more solid foundation for the speaker. The stock stands are pathetic compared to the aftermarket MYE or Sound Anchor.

I have the MYE "Stealth" stands for my 3.5 and am very happy. I never liked the stand being extended past the front baffle/frame and this was the best alternative. Aesthetically it's awesome.

[dkg999]

Yep, the Mye stands are in the budget as a future purchase! I'm looking at upgrading my pre-amp to the new Parasound P2000 in the Classic line first.

[dorokusai]

Sweet :)

[Zero]

Congrats on your decision, and new toys!

[LuSh]

buy a used pair of Von Schweikert VR2's then take part of the savings and buy a better source. The better source will tame the harsher frequencies and add more 3D depth. Perhaps a used Copland or Linn, Benchmark or Museatex DAC would enhance even further.

[pearsall001]

Go listen to Proac & Harbeth - you're in for a real treat

[George Grand]

Congrats on an out of the box piece of thinking as Doro said.


I'm really glad you made this post for one big reason. It showed ME that the real fun in this hobby is finding a REASONABLY priced outstanding loudspeaker, that sounds good with REASONABLY priced amps.

"So and so's very pricey speakers seem to sound their best when driven by so and so's very expensive amps." Great advice.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

[dkg999]

George Grand & Doro - thanks for the support and comments! I don't have anything against expensive, or less expensive used, high-end audio gear. I envy those that choose to afford it and get enjoyment from it. I have to be honest, even though I could choose to spend more, with this level of components I am pretty much at the outer limit of my ears hearing a real difference. Just call me a mid-fi type of guy! It doesn't put a damper on how much I enjoy listening to my system!

[Zero]

If you can dig your tunes, jam out, and enjoy the music - then it really doesnt matter !!!!

Enjoy the Maggies.

[dorokusai]

dkg999 - Your Hi-Fi is another mans' Lo-Fi....who cares. I have a mix in every rig I own, if they work for me, they stay, cost has nothing to do with it.

I'm not rich, I work for my gear, always have, always will.

You made a solid choice, rock out :)

Eventually, some folks realize that it's not about the money, it's about the actual piece that brings everything together.

Here's a story....as if anyone cares

I just recently sat down and critically listened to this old Phase Linear rig I assembled, not bought whole, bought in pieces. The CDP is shady, works 50/50, and if it breaks, it's DONE....the other pieces were fooked up, but I took them apart, cleaned them up, looking good.

I finally hooked them up to a pair of REAL speakers(RTA8T), not my gruntball who-cares testers(Audiovox)....and all I can say is, NICE. I wish I could crank them up, but it's 12AM. The volume on the PL is 0, and at ONE(1) notch, it's a perfect listening level. Don't you just love old school gain?

Anyways, it's a motivator to know I have a low investment in a rig that's stellar. Vintage gear and vintage Polk, a match made in....well, a perfect world.

[dkg999]

I finally got time today to actually set down and listen to the 1.6's! I had them running for about 20 hours this week just to start breaking them in, but not really listening to them. All I have to say is wow! I was worried that they would sound totally different in my cramped apartment. Even with non-optimal placement, and not anywhere close to broke in, they sound incredible. With only about 2 feet between them and the back wall, the bass response is boosted a little, I'll fix that when they are moved to the new place later this year. I was switching back and forth between the Maggies and my SDA 2A's, and yep, the Maggies are keepers. I found what I was looking for! Not that the SDA 2A's are bad, in fact it's amazing how good they sound when you A/B them with the Maggies. The Maggies just have that presence thing going. I can run them at a lot lower SPL than the SDA's and they seem to fill the room a lot better.

[dorokusai]

Magnepan is a totally different speaker from the SDA, in design and application.

I can't begin to describe what the changes are, it's too time consuming, as they both excel in different areas. The only thing I know for sure, is that I will continue to own a pair of SDA AND Magnepan in my inventory.