Yammieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

[polkyphil38]

Ok people I own a Yamaha RX-V650 receiver which is a high current design. Will it be able to handle the 4ohm loads the Lsi series are said to have. Many people have mentioned that the Lsi series is hard on receivers. Is this true? I also have a Samsung HDdvd-841 player that plays both sacd and dvd-a. Will this combination work for the Lsi series? Thank you for your time.
Phil

[F1nut]

No, it's not rated to drive 4 ohms.

[fireshoes]

Pick up an amp. Your LSi's are starving with that receiver running them.

[aaharvel]

welcome to the forum!

MAYBE with LSI-7's- but even then you wouldn't be taking advantage of their true ability.

[Joey_V]

I run a pair of 9s and a pair of 7s off an HK330 receiver and it sounds good to me... however, I am still saving up for a dedicated amp. I'm sure the amp will provide me a window towards the LSI's true potential.

[michael_w]

It might work at low volumes but there isn't a lot of point in spending the cash for LSI's when they won't be able to let loose with some real power. I originally used a lower end receiver to power my LSI7s and thought it sounded alright but once I got something with a little more oomph they sounded soooo much better.

[Toxis]

will it handle it? Yes. Well or even decent volumes? No. Don't starve your motor by running 73 octane.

[aaharvel]

Toxis is right.

and Joey- i would think the amps in a H/K are higher quality than ones in a Yamaha. Noticably in fact.

I'm not surprised at all that you can push LSI's on an H/K.

[polkyphil38]

Wouldn't hold my breath on that one if I were you. my yammie is awesome and I am sure H/K makes a great product but dont under estimate Yamaha. The RX-V line is NOT sold at Best Buy but ONLY to individual dealers. There is a reason for that if you catch my drift so to speak.

[unc2701]

RX-v line really isnt' that different from HTR (there's plenty of threads on this out there), and the 650 really doesn't handle 4 ohm very well. It is "rated" for it, but it'll thermal shutdown at somewhat loud volumes (note: I'm not talking about stupidly loud, piss off the neighbor volumes here, either). It'll start to sound like crap well before it goes into thermal shutdown. On the other hand, at moderate volumes, it ain't a bad reciever.

I have yet to see a receiver that'll do the LSI series justice, but you're lucky since your yammie has pre-amp outs. If you're gonna get lsi's, plan on getting some outboard amps for that bad boy. Also plenty of threads on that: Adcom, rotel, parasound, outlaw all has product that can be aquired in the $500 range (used) that'll make a big difference.

[ND13]

If you really want a receiver that will do the LSi's justice, your going to have to get an older Carver. They should be in your price range. One of the bigger HK's will do a pretty decent job, but then the $$'s climb.

[aaharvel]

"Adcom, rotel, parasound, outlaw all has product that can be aquired in the $500 range (used) that'll make a big difference."

boy- don't I know it. =)

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

The Outlaw Audio receiver (discontinued) runs for 300-400, it can push the LSi line - I'll bet on that one. A very high current design it is.

NAD receivers can push them.

B&K, Rotel receivers can push them.

Sunfire, Carver receivers can push them.

[ND13]

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
The Outlaw Audio receiver (discontinued) runs for 300-400, it can push the LSi line - I'll bet on that one. A very high current design it is.

NAD receivers can push them.

B&K, Rotel receivers can push them.

Sunfire, Carver receivers can push them.

Love your new sig:D

[losman29]

i run my set of Lsi 15's with a Sherbourn 7/1250A... crazy loud and sound the best ever. pushing them hard and they love it. sure it cost a shiny nickel but worth it.

[SuperDave]

I have a Yamaha RX-V992 driving my LSi25's and it sounds great. I use the amp to drive the top in small mode and the sub pre-out to drive the LFE inputs.
Will I get more amps and LSi's in the future? Yes. But don't let anyone tell you they won't sound great.
I know more power(current) is better, and I will probably get some Outlaw stackables to really blow out the neighbors.....
If your receiver has pre outs you can always add on.
SD

My receiver has impedance selection for 4 ohms or 8 ohms.

SuperDave
Yamaha RX-V992
Panasonic DVD-A310
Sony XBR 27"
DVR
Polk LSI 25 Fronts
Infinity CC3 Center
Infinity RS1 Rears
Monster THX Cables

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Dont use the 4 ohm switch - ever.

All it does it restrict your receiver, how much current it can use. Basically it puts your receivers on alert that demanding speakers are in use. Overall, for sound quality - its not a good idea to engage that switch. For safety, then yeah... but even then though, the receiver will go into safety mode before it catches on fire or something ;)

[Chewie]

I have LSI9's and a LSIC that I tried running off my RX-V1500. One speaker blew after a few weeks, probably from being underpowered. The receiver went into protection several times. I got three Outlaw M200 monoblocks 4 months ago and have had no issues. The sound is great and I get 120db output in a very large room with no distortion. No heating issues with the amps either.

[F1nut]

LSi9's........120dB??? I don't think so.

[michael_w]

You probably blew one because you were trying to hit levels like that with a receiver.... An RX-V1500 just simply can't power LSI's like that.

[louthewiz]

I can agree about the power amps being alot better than not having the current to push ANY speaker with authority,I thought my HTR 5790 was doing a good job pushing the system until I threw in the Bad Boys 2 dvd and the avr just went into clipping and went into protection mode. The HTR and the RXV lines are "exactly" the same units and the only difference is the face of the avr and that's all , if you need more info look at this. http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/compare/YPAO.htm

[Chewie]

120ish is what the Radio Shack meter was showing.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Maybe C Weighted.

[F1nut]

I looked for the maximum SPL from the LSi9's, but couldn't find it. I can tell you this, the bigger SDA's max out between 120dB to 125dB. They are bigger speakers, are more efficient and are a easier load to drive than the LSi's. See my point?

[Chewie]

C weighted and uncorrected value. The ear-meter says it's VERY LOUD.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Your LSi's arnt going that loud.

Your subwoofer is though. Big difference.

[unc2701]

based on the efficiency they should hit 111db at one meter & 200 watts... That's not the perfect way to figure it out, but 120 seems a little steep for the 9. Regardless, they need the power and the yammie isn't gonna cut it.

[polkyphil38]

Hello people. Looks like I may have opened up a can of worms so to speak. Did not mean to do that. However, after further research I believe a good solution to powering the Lsi9's would be the Outlaw Audio mono-blocks amps. They have them B-stock for $230 plus S&H. At 8ohms 200 watts rms and at 4ohm 300 watts rms. That is more than enough to power a set of Lsi9's and another amp to power the Lsi7's for rears. Hence, another to power the center Lsi as well and use my yammie as a preamp. $690 plus S&H is not bad at all and just look at the power you can get. The Outlaw Audio amps seem to be well received. Anybody here got any other suggestions in the "no more than" $700 price range that can out do the Outlaw Audio mono block amps???? Feel free to enlighten us.
Phil

[MSALLA]

Originally posted by louthewiz
I can agree about the power amps being alot better than not having the current to push ANY speaker with authority,I thought my HTR 5790 was doing a good job pushing the system until I threw in the Bad Boys 2 dvd and the avr just went into clipping and went into protection mode. The HTR and the RXV lines are "exactly" the same units and the only difference is the face of the avr and that's all , if you need more info look at this. http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/compare/YPAO.htm

And the way the power is rated. HTR's are rated at 1000Hz & the RX-V at 20-20000Hz. So the RX-V ratings are more honest then the HTR line. You get the same amp in both units if you compare the same price range.

[polkyphil38]

Actually the Rx-V line rates their amps power from 20-20k rms whereas the HTR line does so at 1,000Hz and NOT across the full bandwidth. What does this mean? It means, for example, my RX-V650 rated at 95 X 7 rms is from 20 to 20, 000 Hz. The equivalent in the HTR line would have a power rating of like 120 X 7 because of that power rating at 1,000 Hz. Power wise may be exactly the same in terms of actual output BUT they are rated differently. Hope this helps.
Phil

[F1nut]

There is a major difference between, "just look at the power you can get" and quality sound. There's a reason those amps are so cheap.

[polkyphil38]

F1 not sure exactly what you are implying here but my Yammie is pure quality both in terms of power and sound quality. The HTR line is exactly the same as the RX-V but the two are rated differently power wise. As a result, to get the "same power" in the HTR line would be to have a higher power rating due to the fact that the amps are rated at 1,000Hz and NOT across the full bandwidth of 20 Hz to 20,000Hz. They both are made in the same facility and use the same exact parts with the exception of cosmetic differences. Personally, I am more than happy with my yammie RX-V650.

[amulford]

All F1 is saying is there IS a difference in amplifier quality. The Ratings do not tell the entire story. The Yamaha receiver's are not true class A amplifiers, and they are not really designed for high current applications. Not to piss in your corn flakes, but that's just the way it is.

If an amp is rated at one sp. bandwidth, it dosen't get a second glance from me. It's pure marketing BS. Real power will be measured across the full spectrum of audible frequency, i.e. 20 Hz to 20 kHz. On the better quality amplifiers, the range will be even broader, I saw one with an amplification spectrum spanning 1Hz to 60 kHz.

I doubt either of the lines are truly capable of getting your LSi 9's to put out the amount of SPL's you are describing. You must be getting alot of room loading.

Just my .02.

[F1nut]

I wasn't even refering to the Yamaha AVR because sound quality and a AVR do not go together as Anthony alluded to.

What I was refering to was this, "I believe a good solution to powering the Lsi9's would be the Outlaw Audio mono-blocks amps. They have them B-stock for $230 plus S&H. At 8ohms 200 watts rms and at 4ohm 300 watts rms. That is more than enough to power a set of Lsi9's and another amp to power the Lsi7's for rears."

You're not going to get "Quality" sound from a cheap amp, period.

[louthewiz]

Here is another factor about loudspeakers "amulford" even though the Yamaha rate thier speakers at 100 wpc etc does not mean that they are rated at 110 wpc with all channels driven , for example my infinity towers are "power hungry" just like your speakers now I can guarentee that if you put up any power amp against the yamaha's built in amps the Yamaha would run out of steam in an instant. I was a die hard Denon owner before I switched to my yamaha and the 3802 that I had before was good and the Yammy 5790 was a bit better , but when I use to crank those infinitys up "both avrs" ran out of steam but then I picked up a couple of inexpensive power amps and it was a gigantic improvement in sound quality . So even the higher end avrs have the same problem like the Pioneer "Elite" lines and the higher end denons and H/K etc can not and will never be able to compete with separates unless you spend alot more for one like the denon 5805 or the yamaha rxv1 etc, because of the fact of the avrs sharing the same power supply to decode,process,and amplification it has too many tasks to perform and that is why this fact is true. Lou

[unc2701]

Originally posted by amulford
If an amp is rated at one sp. bandwidth, it dosen't get a second glance from me. It's pure marketing BS. Real power will be measured across the full spectrum of audible frequency, i.e. 20 Hz to 20 kHz.

For the most part I agree (see sony), but that rule falls apart on quite a few high end amps- case in point: VS-1 Reference MK II Hybrid...

Anyhow, with the HTR line, yamaha is trying to compete FINANCIALLY with sony. So they bullshit the specs a little (and nowhere near as much as sony does), call it 120 watts when it's more like 90 and sell a few more recievers.

As for F1's remark
You're not going to get "Quality" sound from a cheap amp, period.
We're talking about $500-$600 amps here... is there nothing in that price range worth buying? 'cause last time I checked a used rotel has much better THD than a stack of $20 bills.

[amulford]

Lou,

All channels driven and measured power at a specific bandwidth are two different things. Apples and oranges. But if your ratings are measured at, say 1 Khz, chances are your not getting all channels driven, either.

I have a "high end" receiver. One of the few that would drive the LSi's properly. It's great for what it's designed to be. It even does damn good musically. But it's not going to give me the same quality as seperates. I do use it as a pre amp for two channel right now, but I don't expect it to pull out like a dedicated amp will on the big speakers. Just won't do it....

See what I mean???

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

Jesse,

Outlaw makes great amps, price tag aside. And thats for one channel, not everyone can afford the caliber gear you can. ;)

There are plenty of amps in that price range worth buying...

B&K, Adcom, NAD, AMC, Rotel, Outlaw, Audiosource, Carver...etc

[audiobliss]

I'm awful proud of my Yamaha receiver, too, but come on; it can't compete with any separates, and it most definitely can't power any LSi speakers worth a flip. (And I believe my RX-V1400 is a little higher up the line than your RX-V650.)

I would say, though, that the Outlaw monoblocks would do a great job for improving power and sound quality for the common man who can't afford the best like someone here can. :p

[polkyphil38]

Well I never implied my yammie was better than seperates. And, it appears from this thread it is not going to handle 4 ohm loads as well. No big deal really because I can not afford the Lsi's anyways. However, my yammie will do fine with the Rti6's, Csi5, and the Rti4's that is IF I decide to go with Polk. I am also looking at others including Paradigm, PSB, Ascend Acoustics, and Tyler Acoustics to name a few. If for any reason I do go with the Lsi's someday I will make sure I use seperate amplifiers. Personally, it will IMHO be a good while because my budget is strapped at the moment. But, I have been really impressed with the Rti series especially the Rti6's.

[F1nut]

Look, I was trying to raise the bar around here. Just about all anyone recommends around here are the same old B&K, Adcom, NAD, AMC, Rotel, Outlaw, Audiosource, Carver. Granted some of those are good amps, but here's a whole world of other choices, of high quality amps that are affordable on the used market. Expand your horzions people and the great part is it doesn't have to cost a arm and a leg to do so.

Here's one, http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1125022467

Another, http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1125001455

Another, http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1124928774

Another, http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1124592976

Another, http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1124405968

Another, http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1124388803

Another, http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1124066016

Another, http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1123952486

And if you go up to the $1000.00 to $1500.00 range the choices really open up.

BTW, my comments were not directed at any one person, just general comments.

[Joey_V]

Im keeping F1's post above bookmarked for amplifier recommendations.

[audiobliss]

Originally posted by polkyphil38 Personally, it will IMHO be a good while because my budget is strapped at the moment.

I know what you mean. That was sorta the plan when I got my Yamaha, but I think it's become a little more permanent than I had planned on. But that's ok, as it does everything I need it to do. And your Yamaha should do a pretty decent job at driving most speakers (including, I think, those you listed).

As for speakers, you definitely listed quite a few very good manufacturers. Just grab one of your favorites CDs you know very well (or DVD, I guess, if you're into movies more), and try and listen to all the speakers you can. Just let your ears (and your wallet, to an extent) guide you.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

[louthewiz]

I was able to find the audiosource and onkyo amps at ridiculously low prices like the onkyo I was able to find it in a flea market for $60.00 and it goes for $300.00 ,the audiosource I bought new but at less then half the price. Now the reason I wanted to purchase these amps were because I auditioned them before I bought them and then I found them by snooping around and I found them at prices that I was able to handle. So my advice to polkiephil38 is check around save some money and get an amp and you will see a world of enjoyment you never heard before.:D

[McLoki]

Originally posted by F1nut
Look, I was trying to raise the bar around here. Just about all anyone recommends around here are the same old B&K, Adcom, NAD, AMC, Rotel, Outlaw, Audiosource, Carver. Granted some of those are good amps, but here's a whole world of other choices, of high quality amps that are affordable on the used market.

Excellent Point - I would like to highly recommend Cinepro for those who want something you don't see in everyones setup. Awesome amp and for the price I paid used - incredible value for the dollar.

Now, for pre-amps, anyone have any good recommendations? (new or used)

Michael