Questions about my system

[audiobliss]

Now that I have a job, I'm seriously thinking I could actually end-up with an amp. That is, if I can convince Mom to actually let me spend what I make.

Anyhoo, in case you've forgotten, I'm running Boston Acoustic RC-520 5.25" components in the front. Right now I'm just running the mids full-range off my Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP.

The last time I was really looking at an amp, I had basically decided on a 4-channel Memphis rated at about 75x4 at 4ohms. I was thinking of running the components off the front two channels and bridging the rear two channels for a sub. How does that kind of a set-up look? Would that be enough power?

About a sub: Last time I looked at subs, one store had a JL 10w1 in a box all ready to go for $250 (might have been $150; but we'll just say it was $250). Is the w1 the new sub? The one thats not as deep? If so, that's the one he had. If not, then I'm wrong and w/e that one is is the one he has. What do you know about that sub? Pretty good for quality bass? Doesn't have to be loud.


Any advice, comments, suggestions, insults, questions, criticisms, ridiculing, and general input is greatly appreciated! lol

Thanks!

[swerve]

EDIT: yea that was harsch.. i'm sorry!

[audiobliss]

Edit: Changed accordingly.

[MacLeod]

All JL subs are exceptional SQ subs. Theyll have good output but its not their strong point.

The W1 is their new entry level sub.

As for running a 4 channel in 3 channel mode, this will work fine. The catch is you have to buy a very stout amp thatll put out a lot of power.

For example you would want something like the Orion 8004 which would be 100x2 at the front and 400x1 at the rear. Not all amps increase their power substantially at 4 ohms mono so youll need to invest in a higher end amp like the Orion or Crossfire.

[audiobliss]

All JL subs are exceptional SQ subs.

Awesome.


The catch is you have to buy a very stout amp thatll put out a lot of power.

Bummer.


I'll just have to go look at actual amps instead of just sit here and think about it.

Still, keep throwing ideas my way!!

[MacLeod]

How much you wanna spend on an amp?

[audiobliss]

I would love to stay under $300. But $400 is the absolute limit.

[MacLeod]

MTX Thunder564 (http://www.cardomain.com/item/MTX564) $200. 70x2 and 300x1.

JBL GTO 75.4II (http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLGTO754II) $300 100x2 and 280x1.

Kicker KX550.3 (http://www.cardomain.com/item/KIC04KX5503) $450 70x2 and 420x1. This one is $50 over your budget but would be the best choice. Its a 3 channel amp that utilizes a Class D design for the rear sub channel and AB for the front 2. It will make a ton of power.

[audiobliss]

Well unfortunately, cardomain.com will not work on my computer right now. Besides, even if it did, I can't buy online.


What's the consensus about Memphis? In all reality, that's probably what I'll end up with.

[MacLeod]

Why can you buy online?

Youre online now arent you?

[audiobliss]

It's not a problem with transacting online (though I am having some difficulties with my connection; for instance, google, cardomain, sounddomain, and a few other sites won't come up at all), it's a problem with online transactions. The parents. My word, have you forgotten this?! It's just out of the question. Be it for better (yeah, right!) or for worse (sigh), I'm buying at a store.


So, what do y'all think about Memphis? I mean, buying a Memphis amp can't make me any more of an outcast than did buying my Boston Acoustic components, right? :p

Thanks!

[exalted512]

i dont like memphis...at all.
-Cody

[swerve]

sorry for my comment. don't buy memphis.

[MacLeod]

Memphis is ok stuff. Id put it on par with RF's Punch line.

They used to be called Fultron which I always considered kinda flea martket stuff but since theyve re-invented themselves they have put out better stuff.

Ive heard a couple of their speakers and they sounded a little thin to me.

Their subs pack a whallop and have decent SQ.

Their amps make their rated power cleanly which is all you can ask of an amp I guess.

Bottom line, Memphis doesnt suck but Id look for something a little better.

What are some of the other brands your local shops carry?

[audiobliss]

Originally posted by swerve
sorry for my comment.

No problem.




I'm thinking that Memphis, unfortunately, is probably what I'll end up with because it is decent, not overly expensive, and is about the only thing small enough to under my seat. However, the shop also carries Alpine, MTX, Sony, Pioneer, Boston Acoustics, and a few others I'm forgetting. Maybe I'll get to go there Saturday and take a look around.

Thanks.

[MacLeod]

Dont you have more than one shop near ya?

You should go to some of the webiste of manufacturers you like and use their dealer locator. Most have one and maybe there are some shops near you that you dont know about.

[audiobliss]

Shops near me I don't know about?! LOL

Well, actually, since I started at my job last Thursday, I have found one I didn't know about. And there's also a Tweeter near-by. The reason I'm leaning towards this one shop is because he's my dad's customer and (has and) will cut me a deal. However, I'm not sure how much of a deal.

[MacLeod]

Well, do whatcha gotta do but I strongly advise you to look around first. Dont buy the first thing you run up on cause you will likely regret it.

[audiobliss]

Well, after work today I stopped by that audio store I discovered last week. They carry Eclipse, Diamond Audio, and Kicker. First time I've ever seen any of those brands - and I'm excited!! :D

Kicker - What would you recommend from their line-up and what would you expect for a decent in-store price for that amp?

Diamond Audio - If I'm not mistaken, this stuff is just awesome. Is their D3 series cheap enough for me to consider? Or should I just not even bother? Also, I told him I was thinking about a 10W1 (and that I wasn't going for perfection this time around, but a balanced system), and he said a Diamond sub would be far superior; whaddya think?

Oh, and I don't know the prices 'cause I just had about 3 minutes to pop in and look around 'fore I had to go.

I can't wait to look at the Eclipse HUs!


Thanks.


EDIT: Oooh, and though I don't remember which Diamond Audio sub he recommended, he did say it'd work in an extremely small sealed enclosure - about .9ft^3. Does that tell you which one he's talking about?

[exalted512]

Try to get your hands on a CM3 from diamond(Sub). Pretty inexpensive and will kick the shit out of any comparitive JL crap. Kicker has the SX series of amps which are very good.
-Cody

[audiobliss]

Yeah, but aren't the SX series pretty expensive? They said they're about a dollar a watt.

[audiobliss]

ALso, I looked up 'CM3' on Diamond Audio's web site and didn't get anything. Is it discontinued?

[MacLeod]

Yes. It was nixed last year.

Kicker SX line is very expensive as it isnt only an amp. It also has a digital signal processor built in that allows you to manipulate the signal in about as many ways as imaginable.

If you can afford it, go with Diamond. They are the best out of all the brands youre looking at. Their strongest part is their speakers, they are exceptional.

I got to listen to a local shops demo vehicle last year with my trusty Dream Theater CD and it had all Diamond speakers with Eclipse amp and it sounded awesome!

[audiobliss]

You're telling me their speakers are amazing? I already have my speakers! I know they're stinkin' bright Bostons, but I already have 'em!

I found out that retail for the D3 series 4-channel amp (w/e it's called) is $360. So if the store is a little lower than that, it might be a possibility.

[MacLeod]

Jesus. I type in English. It sure looks like English. It reads like English.

I just cant figure out where I said, "you have to buy the Diamond speakers".

Ok, forget the speakers. Diamond makes great amps. They make other great things like sp*****s and subs as well. In other words, they are a great manufactuerer and anything you buy from them will be most excellent.

[audiobliss]

sorry; I'm just really in a bad mood right now

my bad

[swerve]

Originally posted by audiobliss
sorry; I'm just really in a bad mood right now

my bad go buy pyle... it sounds like you deserve it.

mwuahaha

[exalted512]

if you want some Diamond speakers i have some for sale, NIB:D
-Cody

[audiobliss]

And would you be looking to make a profit or actually cut me a deal? :p

[exalted512]

This would be an online transaction...
But you already have Bostons!!
-Cody

[AustinKP]

Originally posted by exalted512
if you want some Diamond speakers i have some for sale, NIB:D
-Cody you have a pic of those? and how much do you want? which model were they again? the hex series?

[audiobliss]

Great news!! Well, that is if I had any money! I went by that store again today and talked to the guy about equipment.

He has some (2; including the display model) D3400.4 amps. Since they're 2004, they only have a 3-year warranty - and are discounted! They're marked down to $279. Is that a good deal?

After talking a while about subs, he recommended a CM3 - before I had even said anything about it. They have a few 10 inchers left, and he'll let me have one for $140. Is that a good deal?

He said they could make a custom sub box that would go behind the back seat and that'd go from wheel well to wheel well. The sub would be on one side, and the amp would somehow be mounted on the other side. (Inside, yet visible and accessible, somehow; I didn't quite follow that part.) He said that'd be about $200. Or I could just have 'em make a standard box for about $140 or so.

A wiring kit and fee for finishing the component installation would round at the deal and would cost $40 and $55, respectively.

The total comes to $713 without tax. Does that sound like a pretty good deal for a whole system? I'm not at all sure that I can afford all that, but the amp seems to be real nice and at a good price, and the sub seems to me to be a steal. So, it sounds like it's going to be hard to compromise any farther here.


What do you guys think about this? Any advice, opinions, comments are much appreciated!

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

$200 for a freakin' box?!?!?

Maybe it's just me...but that's crazy. I just build a custom sub box for less than $30 in parts, and about half a day labor...

[MacLeod]

That sounds about right.

This custom box would be more than a simple cube. It would be custom fitted to your rig and probably be made of MDF and fiberglass. A box like that would likely cost $300 if you bought it from Q Logic or the like and it wouldnt be near as well made.

If youre not wanting to build your own box then I suggest letting your local shop do it. They can build it just the way you want it to fit perfectly in your rig.

Of course hes pushing the CM3's. Hes trying to get rid of last years models. And $140 is not much of a discount. I was looking at a CM3 8" last year and they were running $100. If youre going to spend $140 on a 10" sub, get a Momo. Theyll sound better and cost less. Plus if you dont buy at least one thing Polk for your system you cant hang out with us anymore! :p :D

[audiobliss]

You really think the MOMO sub will sound better than the CM3? The only draw back to getting the MOMO would be that this shop doesn't carry Polk, and thus I don't reckon they'd make a sub box/install the amp in it and all like they were planning on doing. The only place around here that sells the MOMO subs is Tweeter, and I really don't want to give them any money.

[exalted512]

$120 would be about the right price, not $140, and $120 is a tad high.

$200 for a box isnt bad for custom, but i wouldnt want the amp mounted to it. amps mounted on sub boxes just doesnt seem like a great idea to me. A standard box for $140 is insane though. More like $75. The box I bought before I made this one was $130. It was very detailed as it had to fit under my backseat and it was made with 3/4" MDF. $140 is very unreasonable when its not going to cost more than $20 in materials and an hour to make.

the price for the amp is very reasonable.

What about buying your own amp kit and installing it yourself if itll save you some money...
-Cody

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by audiobliss
The only place around here that sells the MOMO subs is Tweeter, and I really don't want to give them any money.

Dont think about it like that. You would be supporting Polk, not Tweeter.

[audiobliss]

Well, I don't want to install it myself. I have neither the time, the know-how, the confidence, nor the (family/parent) support to do that. And if they install it, I'll get a 3-year warranty.

So if he's set on $140 for the sub, would you recommend going another route for the sub? I can get a JLAudio 10W1 in a (regular) box for $250. What would you think about that? I might be able to get the amp under the back seat, and then have the small sub box in the back of the car.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to try to stretch it for the amp since it seems to be such a good deal.

[unrealii]

IMO, I wouldn't go with that w1...$250 just seems like a lot to be spending investing on a w1. I paid $130 for my image dynamics ( http://imagedynamicsusa.com ) idq 10" 3 years ago. Its their midline sub and it rocks. That leaves you with ~$100+ to go find a box.

[exalted512]

$250 for a w1 is outrageous, get the cm3
-Cody

[AustinKP]

Cody, did you see the first post on this page?

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by AustinKP
Cody, did you see the first post on this page?

Didnt matter. He just sees "JL" and automatically goes into a rage. :rolleyes:

The 10W1 reatils for $110, however it wont handle the power of a Diamond or Polk.

OK, lets recap:

The Momo sub would be better than the JL and the Diamond but you dont want to support Tweeter. :confused:

You cant build your own box because your parents wont support you. :confused:.

You cant order online with YOUR OWN MONEY because your parents wont let you. :confused:

This is now officially more complicated than it needs to be.

Tell ya what. Figure up how much your parents will let you spend of your own money and then get whatever will fit in that budget. If you can afford the Diamond with the custom box then go with that. If you can only afford the W1 then go with that.

[spwuinmk67]

This is getting to the point where I almost say send me the money, I'll order online for you and then ship it to you...lol. Almost though, not quite yet

[exalted512]

send me the money, I'll order plenty of audio stuff...
-Cody

[VR3]

Give me the dimensions.

I'll build you a box come September, I'll even buy the wood, free labor.

You just gotta pick it up and apply the carpet.

But I'm not making anything special, standard box....that fits your car...that fits the required volume... if you want that special stuff...you will be paying that 200 lol

Heres the catch...

Today is the 25th...

You have until the 10th of July to give me an answer. This includes confirmation from your parents, your commitment to pick it up, and this is with no complaints. That gives you 15 days to convince your parents that you can drive 3 or so hours...pick up a box and only spend around 40-50 dollars (if not much less)...

[MacLeod]

Damn!!

Where were you when I was building my box? ;)

[audiobliss]

If I decide I can buy from Tweeter and get the 2104 (at $119), would that work with my proposed system? The MOMO sub handles 300 watts continuous; the D3400.4 amp puts out 50x4; would the two rear channels bridged give me enough power to move the MOMO?

If not, I guess I'll be looking at amps again. I looked at Tweeter today, and I didn't see anything near as nice as the Diamond for near the price point. The next cheapest thing was a..err...I forget.....but it was still $399. So I'd like to stick to the D3400.4 if I can.

Thanks!

[MacLeod]

Eh, it would power it but not enough.

The Diamond is rated to put out 200 watts bridged and I would assume it would make a little more than that so expect 225-235 which would be ok.

You would get very good SQ from the sub but youd be missing out on a bit of volume.

[audiobliss]

I'd be just fine with not getting a whole lot of 'punch' from it. But you don't think I'd be messing up the sub by feeding it w/e the Diamond could dish out? Do you think the CM3 would be better mated? Or would you still personally go with the MOMO?

[MacLeod]

The CM3 10" is a 500 watt sub so youd definitely be underpowering then.

Get the Momo. Its a better sub and the power would be a bette match.

[audiobliss]

Ok, sounds like a deal. Now, should I expect store A (who doesn't carry Polk) to still build this custom box and install the MOMO sub in it for me if I can buy the sub from Tweeter? Or will I be lookin' at something else for a box/installation?

I mean, if I pay 'em, wouldn't they install the sub, even if I bought it somewhere else?

[exalted512]

they should still install it for you
-Cody

[MacLeod]

If youre paying them to build a box and install a sub then they wont care what brand it is.

[exalted512]

isnt that what i just said, but unsummarized?
:cool:
-Cody

[audiobliss]

I guess I could also just buy the sub from Crutchfield or something.....wonder if I could be that persuasive.....

[exalted512]

i would rather try to do it off of sounddomain...theyre cheaper
-Cody

[swerve]

Phil at woodlawn cabinetry down good work. He built my box and it's wonderful... yet you may be better off with a prefab.. i dunno.

http://www.woodlawncabinetry.com/

website is kind of iffy... but he's a really nice guy and will help with whatever you need box related.

-adam

[audiobliss]

Thanks for the box recommendation, swerve, but I think I'm gonna let the stereo shop build me a custom one (assuming I can convince my parents to let me spend that much money).

The only reason I said Crutchfield instead of SoundDomain or something else (besides the fact that I can't get on their website) is that Crutchfield is an established, undeniably solid retailer. Though there may be countless, countless happy (and richer) customers of sounddomain, it'll be easier (though maybe still not possible) for me to convince my parents to get something from Crutchfield.

I'm really digging the idea of having a MOMO! I like it, I like it....

[swerve]

yea anytime!

[audiobliss]

Well, now I'm disappointed. I went by the store again after work today for about 15 minutes. He said that he still has two of the (last year's) amps in the back. So that's good. However, I told him that I was thinking about a Polk MOMO 2104 instead of the CM3. He really didn't like that idea (duh, I wonder why...he doesn't sell Polk..). He basically said that Polk's not worth the money. He said that he's had two guys come in the store that had Polk MOMO subs in the bandpass boxes they came in, and they sounded, to use his exact words, like butt. I said, whoa, I didn't know they came in bandpass boxes! 'Yup.' What's up with that? Is that true? I can't imagine it is. I don't think they come with any boxes, and if they did, I wouldn't think it'd be a bandpass. I mean, Polk is about quality sound, and as far as I know, bandpass boxes are about output.

So now I don't like this guy anymore (though he's very nice and remembers everything about my system), and I'm not sure I want to do business with him. I want that Diamond Audio amp as it seems to be a good amp at a great price. I'm just confused as to what to do, now. I'm thinking about just buying the amp from him and then having this other guy (my dad's customer who I've been buying from) to install it. However, this way I don't guess I'd get a warranty. I also wouldn't get that cool sub box.

:(
I'm just confused now.
:(

[MacLeod]

Dude, youre making this way, way too hard.

Get the Diamond amp if thats the one you want and the Polk sub. Then get this dude to build your enclosure. Eff him if he doesnt like Polk. Youre paying him to build a box not critique the brand of sub you choose.

[audiobliss]

Now I'm considering buying an amp online and having someone install it. This HiFonics amp from SoundDomain looks awesome! Especially for the money! How would y'all say it compares to that Diamond Audio amp?

http://www.cardomain.com/item/HIFTX8805

I can't seem to find HiFonics' website; has it moved?

That HiFonics would put out more power and thus suit me a lot better (in my head, at least). Would the rear two channels be bridgeable? And what would that bridged channel be putting out? 440 watts? That'd be at 4 ohms...would that be alright for the MM2104?

Thanks!

[audiobliss]

How come the HiFonics Titan TX 8805 is so cheap compared to their other stuff? I mean, their other amps (for instance, some of the Zeus line) at the same price are putting out much less power. Is the Titan a lesser line? If so, how much so? What am I giving up? Again, how does it compare to the Diamond?

Thanks!

[MacLeod]

Originally posted by audiobliss
Now I'm considering buying an amp online and having someone install it. This HiFonics amp from SoundDomain looks awesome! Especially for the money! How would y'all say it compares to that Diamond Audio amp?

http://www.cardomain.com/item/HIFTX8805

I can't seem to find HiFonics' website; has it moved?

That HiFonics would put out more power and thus suit me a lot better (in my head, at least). Would the rear two channels be bridgeable? And what would that bridged channel be putting out? 440 watts? That'd be at 4 ohms...would that be alright for the MM2104?

Thanks!

After all this and now youre going to buy online and you dotn want the Diamond and.....AGGGGHHHH!!!

THAT DOES IT!!

SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND!!!!!!

[audiobliss]

:eek:

:(

[MacLeod]

Now I feel bad. :(

Both the Diamond and the Hifonics are great amps.

Get the one that most closely matches youre power requirements, size requirements and budget considerations.

Me personally, Im partial to the Diamond. Dont trust the build quality of the Hifonics as much as the Diamonds.

[audiobliss]

Originally posted by MacLeod
Now I feel bad. :(

ROFL Not as bad as I do! I've been dragging this whole thing on for a long, long, long time, asking y'all so many questions and y'all have been so good to me and helped me along, even though I continue to buy nothing, lol. I just hope that I will eventually end up with something!

And as for the HiFonics vs. Diamond, idk. I just saw it and thought it had great stats.

ijdk....

[exalted512]

The titan series is their lower model...like punch is to power for RF.

Didnt I warn you about the guy at the store??? huh? didnt i??

of course polk is going to sound like "butt" when he doesnt sell them. I know for a fact the momo sounds better than the cm3, or at least IMO its hands down better, just doesnt get as loud
-Cody

[audiobliss]

Ok, guys. I guess I've recovered from 'stupid salesman shock' now. I guess I'm still gonna go for the Diamond Amp. And if I can persuade the folks to let me dump the cash on enclosure/sub, I'll go with their custom box and a MOMO. Thanks for all the advice/input/comments/criticisms I've benefited from over the past...uhh....long time. Much appreciated.

[audiobliss]

Well, I've been all set to walk in there and get this amp and get the guy to install it and my components. I was even talking to Dad about it the night before last, and he seemed to not be against the idea (not for....but not against..). I had it worked out this way: $280 for the amp, $50 for component installation, $40 for various wires, RCAs, etc. That'd bring it to $370, which is a lot of money, but perhaps do-able.

Well, I went to the store yesterday and talked to the guy about just sticking the amp under the back seat until I can conjure up enough money to get a sub and sub box (since we were planning on mounting the amp to the sub box). He doesn't think it'll go under the back seat, but he thinks it'll go under the front passenger seat. That'd be fine with me.

Then we worked on price. While he's adding it up on a calculator, he asks me if I've dynomated my doors. Since I haven't, he says I really should; it'll make my speakers sound a whole lot better. I agree with this, and I'd like for my doors to be dynomatted. HOWEVER, the materials to do that costs $90, and then installing it (which he said takes an hour) is another $50! I'm like, I could buy enough dynomat to do my entire car for $90!! And an hour to do it?! :confused: Yeah, just forget that.

So then, he says $280 for amp, $54 for component installation, $50 for wiring kit, $17 for extra RCA (for sub when I get one), and $50 for amp installation. Then there was like another $20 for something else. That totals up to $470. I just can't and won't spend that much on an amp/installation.

I guess this rules out the Diamond Audio amp. :( Now I'm gonna go back to that other guy's shop and see what he can do for me. I may just end up with a Memphis amp. I know it's not the best, and I know y'all don't like it. But hopefully it won't be too expensive, and I *think* I'll be adequately pleased with it.


So, that's where I'm at now, I guess.

[spwuinmk67]

dude...where do you live? theres gotta be a polkie who can do this for you...

[neomagus00]

yeah, he's seriously messing with you. i understand that you get a 3-year warranty if the shop installs it, but that's a lot to pay for a warranty over a self-install. i'd advise you to think seriously about doing the install yourself with good stuff, rather than paying someone else to put in not-as-good stuff.

if you need or want it (and this is no judgement on you, it just seems like a decent way to waste some time for me :)), i can type up a tutorial/walkthrough thingy for ya, so you can see just how easy it is to install this stuff yourself.

i think your pricing is closer to what it should really be, except i'd use the 50 bucks from the component installation and put it toward wiring. if you do it yourself, you'll be buying speaker and power wires as well as rcas, and rcas are no place to skimp, as i'm sure you've heard endlessly here. on dynamat, the ubiquitous secondskin would be great here, should you choose to get some - i don't think it's necessary at this point in time, but keep in mind that if you do it now, you'll have less of it to do when subs roll around. ditto for the sub RCA - i'd do it later, when you have a sub install budget, rather than cramming it in now.

and yah, spunky's idea of getting a polkie to help is a good one - where u live?