Bad experience with AV123

[dragon1952]

I know others have done OK with them but dig this.
AV123 has been advertising the Onix XCD-88 CD players for $299, which is $100 off of the regular price of $399.This is supposed to be the exact same machine as the Music Hall CD-25.
Anyway, I ordered one for $320 shipped and when I took it out of the box I noticed a raised 'bulge' on the left-side of the cover, near the rear, about the size of a dime. Then when I set it down in my rack I noticed the right-front leg was about 1/8" shorter than the rest. I sent them an email saying this was not acceptable and they said they would send me a new one, but unless I sent the first one back first they would have to do a cross-shipment meaning I could keep the first one until the second one arrived but they would have to put a hold on my credit card for an additional $299. The customer service rep said he would 'personally inspect' the second one to make sure it was 'perfect'. Well when it arrived it had a similar, but smaller 'bulge' in the right-side of the cover near the rear but worse than that it had a large dent along the lower right edge of the chassis and cover! At this point I basically said screw it and told them I would be sending them both back and shopping elsewhere.
They received both CD players on June 10th. They lifted the hold on my credit card for the $299 around the 17th and the second credit didn't show up until Jul 1st.
I accused them of selling 'B' stock units as new and they denied it very strongly twice. Here's an exact quote, "These are not scratch and dent units for
$299. They are a-stock factory sealed."
Well I just got my credit memo for the first charge and it says right on the memo under 'Item', " B stk ON-XCD-88, Discount -100.00 " and then again under 'Description', "Onix XCD-88 CD Transport B stock s/n 04030287".
What pisses me off even more is they won't refund the $21 I paid for shipping .
This was there response "To answer your question about shipping, since you decided not to keep the XCD-88 within the 30 day and take credit, it's treated as a thirty day dissatisfaction. If we
refund shipping on items that are cosmetically flawed, it allows for a
loophole where someone can damage an item, return it for credit, and get the
shipping credited. We're not accusing you by any means of this, but we have
to protect ourselves and not allow anyone the ability to take unfair
advantage of our policy. I hope you understand."

Since I decided not to keep them!?!? They were a freakin' wreck! Even after you supposedly 'personally inspected' the second one?!?!

I emailed him back and basically told him, "Yes, I understand. And I'm sure you will understand why I will have to highly recommend that all of those potential buyers at the numerous audio forums I frequent shop elsewhere for their audio equipment."
What a bunch of freakin' liars!

BTW, I saved all of the email coorespondence as well as pictures of the cosmetic issues.

[F1nut]

Looks like you caught them in one big lie after another. Thanks for the warning.

[Zero]

Dragon,

First, it is never fun to encounter such difficulty with a product, let alone a company that does not meet expectation. My advice would be to copy and paste what you typed here, to the av123 boards. While us Polkies may find it interesting, the impact will have virtually no effect here. Take it to where your words will be heard.

AV123 products are souly built and even mostly designed in China. Owning a few major plants definitely allow premium opportunities. With everything there is a price, and with av123 products, its quality control.

As for the service; there is no excuse for that mess.

[dragon1952]

I'd get shot down so fast in that forum :(
I've seen what happens there. But if I can persuade even one person from another forum not to buy there I will achieve my goal, which is to cost them more money than it would have taken for them to be fair with me.

[dragon1952]

Originally posted by F1nut
Looks like you caught them in one big lie after another. Thanks for the warning.

You're welcome!
The good news is that because of this ordeal I ended up with my Jolida which is what I wanted in the first place. I was just trying to take the cheap way out :o

[Dennis Gardner]

Let Mark S. deal with the problem. I'll bet he takes care of you. He really does know CS and doesn't usually let anyone suffer.

I saw he just posted.

[kingtut]

Dragon, I sent this link to Mark S. May be he'll respond and assist w/the problem

[jdhdiggs]

Mark is/has left AV123 to start his own company so I don't think he'll have much pull, but I have no doubt he'll do whatever he can to make it right even if he's no longer with the company. The guy is stand up.

[dragon1952]

Well, I got an email today re: their policy on refunding shipping costs stating,

so and so "is correct and that is our policy which is not unreasonable (nor are we unreasonable, as a company, which is why we have the stellar reputation that we do). However, given the extraordinary circumstances of your situation, I'd be willing to settle this matter and allow an exception in the policy for you. I will request that accounting credit the original shipping charge
of $21 back to your Visa....."

Evidently they weren't too thrilled with the threatening nature of my previous email however :rolleyes: Bottom line though is that I felt this had gone on long enough and was willing to just say 'OK, fine....keep the money. That's your policy and here's mine'

I'm assuming mine was an isolated incident though and not the norm because I have been unable to find any reference to a similar situation. Personally, now that they have done the right thing, if they happened to have something I wanted I would be willing to give them another chance, FWIW.
Appreciate all the support guys! ;)

[marker]

At least you got all your $$$ back. I'm sure your threat to post about this in all the forums helped to "persuade" them a little too.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

They shouldn't have to be threatened before they act in a reasonable manner...

I'll not be shopping there.

[2+2]

dragon, I think you are way too easy on them. Fact is, they lied to you 3 times unless they can explain the refurbs and "personal inspection"....how can you trust them for another purchase?

I would ask for clarification as to their "policy" of passing off refurbs as new.....

That's really too bad as the Emotiva line and the Rocket speakers seems pretty interesting....ring radiator tweeters sound familiar!

[dragon1952]

Yeah, I probably am being too easy. I just can't believe this hasn't happened to anyone but me.
The excuse on the first unit was like 'gee, I can't imagine how that got past quality control in China like that' and on the second one that was supposedly inspected the excuse was like '...well there's a possibility that you were not shipped the unit that I had inspected and somehow were sent a b-stock unit by accident.'
I guess it was an accident that my credit memo said 'B stock' on it too. :rolleyes: They'd probably say "yeah, well it is a B stock now that your sorry ass sent it back!"

You'd think if this happened all the time you'd freakin' hear about it. And you're right......I shouldn't have had to resort to threats to get them to act reasonably. And I probably didn't have to. I probably could have pleaded my case up the chain but, like I said, I was fed up with it at that point. What a bizarre experience.

[Dennis Gardner]

Originally posted by jdhdiggs
Mark is/has left AV123 to start his own company so I don't think he'll have much pull,

I haven't seen news of this, he is still listed as Pres. of AV123, PT, etc. and has his own section in the forum. Can you give me a post of such news?

[mlschifter]

Originally posted by dragon1952
I'd get shot down so fast in that forum :(
I've seen what happens there. But if I can persuade even one person from another forum not to buy there I will achieve my goal, which is to cost them more money than it would have taken for them to be fair with me.

First... allow me to most sincerely apologize to you for any mistreatment (perceived, or otherwise) ffrom my company... I take these matters very seriously, and I feel just horrible about this...

I was alerted to this thread several days ago but I've been unable to spend much time on the Internet for days now... I must apologize for that also...

Please take a moment and e-mail with me at mlsav123@mac.com or if you'd like... you can phone me on my US mobile... 720.244.0727

I'm currently at my home in Khabarovsk, Russia taking care of some issues here before heading back to America this coming weekend for an av123 GTG in Chicago... I promise you I will take the time to find out what has happened and do everything in my power to get this handled to your satisfaction... This is most defintely NOT the norm for my company or our CS department...

I can tell you that we have over 80 units of A Level XCD-88 in stock and ready for shipment... "Stuff" does happen, and the satisfaction quotient for XCD-88 has been in excess of 97% thus far... (pretty good for mail order in general)...

Again... let me assure you that this DOES matter to me... and I will seek and create a positive outcome for you, and our company...

To all of you Polk-Folk.... Greetings... Love to company and the product... Polk Audio has been a friend (and even partner at one point) to me and vice versa... I hold this company and it's products in VERY HIGH REGARD...

Most warmly...

All the best...

mls

[mlschifter]

Originally posted by jdhdiggs
Mark is/has left AV123 to start his own company so I don't think he'll have much pull, but I have no doubt he'll do whatever he can to make it right even if he's no longer with the company. The guy is stand up.

Thanks for your post... but I can ABSOLUTELY assure you that I'm STILL the Pres. etc. of av123, (running the company) et. all and even though I'm involved quite a bit in my factory and in China (we build for some 16 brands besides our own)... and my business in Russia... I'm STILL day to day at av123 FIRST and FOREMOST...

Appreciate your kind comments in any event...

All the best...

mls

[mlschifter]

Please note that I've linked this thread to those in charge of CS at my company...

I expect that someone will be getting back to me --- Post Haste...

I dislike saying it after all of this... but history does tell a very different story for my company and particularly our CS department...

I once again apologize to you, and to those here...

Most sincerely and humbly...

mls

[Early B.]

Well, Mark's comments and actions are quite noble. One of his colleagues (audiogon's Underwood Wally) shares the same CS commitment. In fact, Wally is the guy who persuaded me to purchase my Onix Rocket UFW-10 subwoofer. Awesomely musical sub at a great price. High end finish, too. Next time I'm in the market for more speakers or components, Onix would definitely be on my short list.

[jdhdiggs]

Originally posted by mlschifter
Thanks for your post... but I can ABSOLUTELY assure you that I'm STILL the Pres. etc. of av123, (running the company) et. all and even though I'm involved quite a bit in my factory and in China (we build for some 16 brands besides our own)... and my business in Russia... I'm STILL day to day at av123 FIRST and FOREMOST...

Appreciate your kind comments in any event...

All the best...

mls

Sorry, got some of the Mark's mixed up, sorry if this caused any heartache.

[Dennis Gardner]

Mark,

Thanks for taking the time to follow up on this even when it ran
onto another forum.

I have been on a number of audio and HT forums in the past few years and have always appreciated the courtesy and support that Mark has shown to people looking for audio solutions. More times than not, when someone is searching for a certain product need, I have seen him suggest another companies product simply because he understands that helping someone find the right solution is more important than lining his own pockets with a sale.

I hope that this gets worked out with the XCD-88 as it is one of the better values out at this time.

Cheers,

DG

[mlschifter]

Good Morning... and thank you all for your comments...

I have in fact received a very nice and well detailed reply from dragon1952... It appears that our CS team did in fact refund the money... and that the post was made public due to a policy issue that would have made me angry also... All is well from that perspective, and dragon1952 initiated the post as he felt it well within his rights, and with stated policy (and it's confusion) he felt he would not get his money back... We're cool... :)

I'm glad...

My biggest concern now is how did two mechnically incorrect units go out... I actually e-mailed my wife to go in and do some homework for me... SHE WILL (for those of you that know and have dealt with Lynn... she's tougher than whale shi*... the answer will be forthcoming)...

I sincerely apologize (again) to this membership for any unhappiness, etc. I'm always available to serve our brands (and ultimately YOU) no matter where I am... mlsav123@mac.com

I also would like to thank the mods for allowing me to post within this thread and framework...

Most humbly...

mls

[dragon1952]

Wow, I certainly hadn't planned for this to become such an issue :o
The internet makes this a very small world I guess! Next thing you know we'll be hearing from Michael Allen :rolleyes: (another thread, another issue and just joking of course) ;)
I'd like to thank Mark for his concern and just to clarify for everyone these weren't 'mechanically incorrect' units. These were strictly 'cosmetically challenged' units. :D They worked just fine and it's really a pretty remarkable CDP and a great value for $299. I would have been perfectly happy with it, especially with the opamp upgrades.

EDIT: Of course this doesn't mean that I'm ready to swap spit with the dudes I dealt with either. ;)

[dragon1952]

Originally posted by Dennis Gardner

...I have been on a number of audio and HT forums in the past few years and have always appreciated the courtesy and support that Mark has shown to people looking for audio solutions. More times than not, when someone is searching for a certain product need, I have seen him suggest another companies product simply because he understands that helping someone find the right solution is more important than lining his own pockets with a sale....
IDG

And it's exactly the same with another AV123 constituent Walter Liederman (Underwood Hi-Fi), who has taken money out of his own pockets by steering others in a different direction. Both stand up guys, for sure.