.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8492258/

[nadams]

Yep, I was just about to post this when I saw your thread. Crazy...

There are news stories all over the 'net.... The Brits don't often back down from a fight, so I'm hoping the bastards that did this will get what's coming to them.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Al chickenshit queida is taking responsibility...

[bobman1235]

It drives me insane how every press release spends more time trying to placate the "peaceful" muslims than addressing the problem. Always bullshit like "despite these terrorists acting in the name of Islam, we know most Muslims are peaceful..." blah blah blah.

Until other Muslims step up and try to stop their "brothers," stop trying to avoid offending the "peaceful" ones. Cuz I'll be honest, the only time I ever hear the word "Islam", someone has been killed or maimed.

I'm not trying to be a bigot here, just saying let's concentrate on stopping this kind of thing from happening rather than fellating everyone who might be slightly offended by the truth.

[Mjr7531]

It makes you wonder,
Why?
What did al Qaeda get out of this? They killed innocent people, not even to "send a message," besides be afraid of course. What's the point...?

It's sad to think of those lives lost, may they RIP.

[Mike682]

Originally posted by bobman1235
It drives me insane how every press release spends more time trying to placate the "peaceful" muslims than addressing the problem. Always bullshit like "despite these terrorists acting in the name of Islam, we know most Muslims are peaceful..." blah blah blah.

Until other Muslims step up and try to stop their "brothers," stop trying to avoid offending the "peaceful" ones. Cuz I'll be honest, the only time I ever hear the word "Islam", someone has been killed or maimed.

I'm not trying to be a bigot here, just saying let's concentrate on stopping this kind of thing from happening rather than fellating everyone who might be slightly offended by the truth.

EXACTLY what I wanted to say. Bobman, I couldn't agree with you more. Enough of this PC nonsense..

Mike

[hoosier21]

Originally posted by Mjr7531
Why? They killed innocent people, not even to "send a message," besides be afraid of course.

You just defined terrorism, TERROR that's why they do it, small group of people strike terror in a large group of people.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by bobman1235
It drives me insane how every press release spends more time trying to placate the "peaceful" muslims than addressing the problem. Always bullshit like "despite these terrorists acting in the name of Islam, we know most Muslims are peaceful..." blah blah blah.

You're joking, right?

Do you not remember the outlash against Muslims after 9/11???

I think it's VERY important that we reiterate that the majority of muslims do not support this type of behavior...

Until they step up and stop their brothers??? Are you freakiing kidding me??? That's like the police holding me responsible because my 'Christian' neighbor slaughters his wife and kids...

I agree that we should focus more on stopping these attacks, on that we agree. But not at the expense of millions of innocent people.

It's not like making those statements even precludes us from taking action against future attacks anyway... It's like "hey general, we need you to go over and bomb this terrorist camp" and he's like "Sorry, I can't, I gotta write all this stuff about how all the Muslims are innocent...

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by Mike682
EXACTLY what I wanted to say. Bobman, I couldn't agree with you more. Enough of this PC nonsense..

Mike
You guys are killing me with this...

Do you not remember all the aftermath of 9/11 for the Islamic community. People were killed and churches were burned to the ground....

Geez...

I personally don't share the Muslim belief system...but they're people just like us...most of which are innocent...

[Mike682]

Originally posted by Polkmaniac
You guys are killing me with this...

Do you not remember all the aftermath of 9/11 for the Islamic community. People were killed and churches were burned to the ground....

Geez...

I personally don't share the Muslim belief system...but they're people just like us...most of which are innocent...

I live about 40 miles from Manahattan on Long Island and there were a lot of people who worked in the Twin Towers living in my neighborhood. And to see the familie's grief over a lost one, a kid who realizes daddy or mommy is never coming home, a now single parent trying to keep up house pmts really put things in perspective. So yes I do remember the aftermath and it was not fun, in fact it is something that I wish I never experienced.

To be honest, I did not hear of any muslims being killed around here. I think NY was very civil after the fact (at least where I live).

All in all, I agree with polkmaniac and I don't think innocent people should be punished for what the guilty are doing, but I feel the muslim community really needs to make a public statement that they do not support or condone acts of terror.

No harm meant
Mike

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by Mike682
but I feel the muslim community really needs to make a public statement that they do not support or condone acts of terror.

Mike
Uh, they have...many many times. I don't think they really have a good leader that can speak for that group as a whole. But I've seen dozens of muslim preachers (or whatever they call them) and various other people making such statements.

They've been straightforward about their defiance of terrorist networks and such...

[bobman1235]

Originally posted by Polkmaniac
You're joking, right?

Do you not remember the outlash against Muslims after 9/11???

I think it's VERY important that we reiterate that the majority of muslims do not support this type of behavior...

Until they step up and stop their brothers??? Are you freakiing kidding me??? That's like the police holding me responsible because my 'Christian' neighbor slaughters his wife and kids...

I agree that we should focus more on stopping these attacks, on that we agree. But not at the expense of millions of innocent people.

Whoa, hold on. First of all, I wasn't saying that we should hold all Muslims responsible - that's ludicrous. I'm just saying that when a solid HALF of a press conference with the Prime Minister is spent with him saying "not all Muslims are bad" is just ludicrous - it's political correctness run amok. For every time I hear a person of political influence say some bullshit like that, I want to hear a figurehead from the Muslim community speaking out against these attacks.

The reason I say they shoudl "step up" is because these people are doing it IN THE NAME OF THEIR RELIGION. And your example is RIDICULOUS - you're talkinga bout one Christian guy killing his wife, I'm talking about THOUSANDS of people killing THOUSANDS of others.

Look, if some HUGE terrorist group was formed, and started killing thousands of innocent people saying they were doing it for Catholicism, you don't think the Pope would speak out against it? Of course he would. Any religion would defend its image against these types of whackos. But I hear very little from the Muslim community. Why is that? Until their COMMUNITY wants to speak up, I dont' think we should speak for them. That's all.

You seem to think I'm advocating GENOCIDE or something. I'm merely saying these groups should stick up for themselves before we do it for them.

[brettw22]

Originally posted by bobman1235
And your example is RIDICULOUS - you're talkinga bout one Christian guy killing his wife, I'm talking about THOUSANDS of people killing THOUSANDS of others. Perspective Bob.....if you believe that there's ONE Christian guy killing people, take the day off work and head down to the local courthouse. I'd concur that not many (that I'm aware of) are killing in the name of Christianity, but I think common sense says that when a fanatic starts saying things like "it's for God/Allah/etc" that they're off their rocker.....

If people need the Pope or President of whatever church to explain that "no, in fact we don't advocate slaughtering people" to actually believe that the person is in the wrong, there's something wrong with those peoples cognitive thinking abilities.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I wasn't aware that the Muslim community had a figurehead like the Pope to speak up for them - goes to show my ignorance of that religion - what is that person, by the way?

Your statement that they need to speak up for themselves implies that they haven't already done so. Again, I've seen plenty of newscasts and such with Muslim preachers and citizens saying that they don't support terrorism...plenty of times. I don't think they have a central figure like Catholics, so they don't have one person that can come out and say what you're looking for...

So why is it necessary for us to make the statements we do when something like this happens - because alot of people are bigots and rush to judgement that every Muslin must be a bad guy. If we don't make statement like this, then people in that religion that are innocent (which is most) will suffer needlessly. I've seen this with my one eyes and know it to be true...

Are you white? Do you feel like you should be punished for your ancestors having slaves? I know I don't. Why should I be punished for something that another person or group just because there is a common thread amongst us, be it religion, race, or whatever.

I get the argument that by not speaker in their favor we aren't necessarily punishing them. But by NOT telling the masses 'hey don't take your agression out on these people and hurt them and burn their churches and houses to the ground' we are in fact damning them, at least a percentage.

[bobman1235]

Originally posted by brettw22
If people need the Pope or President of whatever church to explain that "no, in fact we don't advocate slaughtering people" to actually believe that the person is in the wrong, there's something wrong with those peoples cognitive thinking abilities.

I absolutely agree. But in the same vain if you need the President or Prime Minister to tell you "just cuz some religious whacko killed people doesn't mean that all Muslims kill people" you have the same problem.

Nothing should need to be said at al, but just because they "shouldn't" have to speak out doesn't mean they don't. People react to this type of news. BUT if they think that it needs to be said, it should be said by the "offending" group. To take everyone else's examples, when someone, or even a LOT of someones, kill in the name of Christianity, do all of the newsmorons fall all over themselves to defend Christianity?? OF COURSE not. Islam is (I believe) the largest religion in the world, why do they feel the need to defend THEM?

This is getting massively derailed, and I feel my emotion over such a shitty situation combined with my inability to accurately express what I'm trying to say is making me seem like an ass.... All I want is for a group to stick up for itself if it feels it is being inaccurately represented, not for everyone to beg for forgiveness long before it's necessary. If they don't feel they need to defend themselves (ie, religious whackos do not represent our religion) then they shouldn't be offended by the accurate reporting of the news.

[2+2]

For me, I can see where both of you guys are coming from. I wholly agree that the leaders should educate the people and remind everyone that most Muslims are not like the terrorists so as to prevent bigotry. At the same time, I also think that the Muslim community can and should do more to speak out and reclaim their religion.

Polkmanic makes the point that if the leaders don't speak out, they would essentially "silently condone" hate crimes against Muslims which would be wrong. But this cuts both ways. By the Muslim community/leaders not being extremely vocal and educating the public and doing all they can to reclaim their religion, they can also be perceived as "silently condoning" terrorist acts....of course, that is not true...... but it can be perceived as such. I also think that the media is partly to blame in that they don't seem to give much publicity to efforts by the Muslim community....which greatly influences public perception.....

[jdhdiggs]

Originally posted by Polkmaniac


Until they step up and stop their brothers??? Are you freakiing kidding me??? That's like the police holding me responsible because my 'Christian' neighbor slaughters his wife and kids...



Nowhere near the same. You care that your "Christian" brother is caught and brought to justice. You would help the authorities in bringing him to justice. I can't say that the middle east countries are doing us any help. Merely doing enough to keep the $$$ rolling in and that's all.

Overall, I think most people are good, just lazy. It is easy to say that what these people do is wrong, much harder to keep them from doing it.

To PM: I remember the Dallas newcasts and such, actually I lived less than a mile from where the shootings and such occured at the Muslim Alliance Center (I think that's what its called at Greenville and Main in Richardson). A lot of those same people had their assets frozen and some thrown in jail for helping the terrorists with funding.

All in all, killing others for religion is just dumb, whether it's the crusades, inquisition, communism (a type of religion), or current terrorism... They are all wrong... Why would any God create something and then tell it to kill itself in his name...? Just dumb...

[brettw22]

Originally posted by bobman1235
I absolutely agree. But in the same vain if you need the President or Prime Minister to tell you "just cuz some religious whacko killed people doesn't mean that all Muslims kill people" you have the same problem. I understand the overall sentiment......but just to clarify, I didn't ever imply that I did need someone to explain to me that not all Muslims are bad. I'm also not in a country leadership position in which (while most are intelligent enough to figure it out) I think ultimitely SHOULD make it perfectly clear to people that this is not the norm for any given group of people.

I know that sounds contradictory to my previous comment. I'm saying we shouldn't need to be told that, but (as was demonstrated post 9/11), not all people are able to distinguish between good and bad people in any given sect, so rather than say nothing, I'd prefer that they do drive the point home for those that don't get it. (now I think that I don't make sense...lol...oh well)

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

You care that your "Christian" brother is caught and brought to justice. You would help the authorities in bringing him to justice.
And the Muslims living over here don't??

Let's say I'm a Hindu. You can't hold me responsible if thousands of Hindus over in this other country all masacre the children and overthrow the government in that country...the fact that we're both of the same religion doesn't mean that we're necessarily linked in any way...

If they don't feel they need to defend themselves (ie, religious whackos do not represent our religion) then they shouldn't be offended by the accurate reporting of the news.
It's not a matter of being offended by some news report, it's a matter of being persecuted and preyed upon by a bunch of rednecks with Toby Keith "We'll put a boot in your ass" bumper stickers on their 4x4s [insert stereotype for where you live here]...

I'm not saying we shouldn't hold those responsible and those who helped them accountable. I'm just saying that a friendly reminder that 'Hey, not everyone from the middle east or India of wherever or of Islamic belief is a bad guy" goes a long way in protecting the innocent.

[Early B.]

Any proof yet if Al Qaida is actually responsible for this?

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by Early B.
Any proof yet if Al Qaida is actually responsible for this?
nope, just word that one of their European sects is taking 'credit' for the attack...

[Early B.]

I'll bet a hundred other groups and a 1,000 individual idiots take credit for it. That's what's so ridiculous about these things. It's a devilish and cowardly act. I really hope they bring to justice whoever actually did it.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by Early B.
I'll bet a hundred other groups and a 1,000 individual idiots take credit for it. That's what's so ridiculous about these things. It's a devilish and cowardly act. I really hope they bring to justice whoever actually did it.
ditto

the f*ckers responsible for acts like these should burn.

I know that they also see us as evel and that each side has it's own point of view...but ours just has to be the right one...

[Toxis]

Not only does this seriously upset me that people can honestly do this to no gain, but who creates a thread with a damn period as the title? It's hard as shit to click... :p

[brettw22]

But when you get an email notification, it at least looks like a cute lil face.....

[brettw22]

Without getting too political, I hope the one thing that comes out of this is a bit more world support at getting these bastards......

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by Toxis
Not only does this seriously upset me that people can honestly do this to no gain, but who creates a thread with a damn period as the title? It's hard as shit to click... :p
I was too pissed at the time to think of an appropriate title...

[aaharvel]

Originally posted by Mike682
All in all, I agree with polkmaniac and I don't think innocent people should be punished for what the guilty are doing, but I feel the muslim community really needs to make a public statement that they do not support or condone acts of terror.

No harm meant
Mike
Bobman & Mike, the Muslim community has made public statements and participated in charitiable functions since 9/11. Of course it's difficult to take that into account (and understandably so) when it's common knowledge that it was a Muslim group who masterminded the attacks. The problem with all this is the Line that separates 'Muslim' and 'Muslim Extremist' has been blurred, which is a shame because Muslims by nature are a peaceful people. In retrospect I think we as Americans need to do a better job of properly defining the two labels and stop blindly following the propaganda of a few hate-mongers. I think if there's going to be peace and most importantly justice, then positive communication is needed; especially when Faith and Fear are the dividing lines between both sides.

[bvette94]

This is an audio forum not a religious or political forum. have a moment of silence for the innocent that were killed maybe say a prayer and get back to the audio talk.

[aaharvel]

Originally posted by bvette94
This is an audio forum not a religious or political forum. have a moment of silence for the innocent that were killed maybe say a prayer and get back to the audio talk.
This is THE CLUBHOUSE "A PLACE TO RELAX AND TALK ABOUT YOUR DAY"

Sorry to have to be the first to tell you but the tragedy in London kinda, maaaaybe supercedes how my Stereo sounds; at least on THIS thread where such a discussion is allowed in the first place. If you don't like the conversation we're having, feel free to go troll someplace else, preferably on the "ELECTRONICS" or "SPEAKER" threads.

:rolleyes:

[bvette94]

Yea ok arguing about religion and religous groups that are responsible for this terrorist attack is going to un do what happened.give your condolonces and move on. i agree it is terrible what happened but arguing isnt going to change the past.

[aaharvel]

I'm not arguing for or againist religion. If anything- i'm trying to take religion out of the equation and simply trying to define the situation as simply GOOD OR EVIL- This is big news and it may not be a warm-hearted conversation but don't we still have the right to talk about it?

see ya' in the other threads. :)

[Dennis Gardner]

Originally posted by aaharvel

but don't we still have the right to talk about it?


Not if it includes religion or politics.

From CP Forum Rules:

2) The discussion of politics and religion is not allowed on this forum.

[aaharvel]

sorry Dennis, We weren't discussing religion or politics. We were discussing the London terrorist attack that just so happens to have a religious element in it. Saying we're not allowed to talk about the London Tragedy b/c it indirectly involves religion doesn't hold water, and quite frankly is retarded. If you look at the thread's history you will see that i'm one of those who are arguing for the equal treatment of people regardless of what religion they practice. If anybody's making religion an issue on this thread it's you and BVette. What's next Dennis; are you going to jump on me if I said that all people should be treated equal regardless if they're a democrat or republican? Black or White?

Give me a break

with all due respect. :)

[Dennis Gardner]

I didn't jump on you, you asked, I just copied and pasted.:)