5 channel amp to mate w/ NAD T773

[pearsall001]

Hey Polksters, I need your advice on my new purchase. I presently have a NAD T773 receiver. It's performance is awesome on both HT & music. But the upgrade bug has bitten me hard. I have a $2000 budget for a 5 channel amp to mate w/ the NAD. I'll use the NAD as a pre/pro. My friends think I'm nuts because they can't believe how good my system sounds with the NAD. They just don't understand how us AUDIONUTS function. So far I've checked out: ADCOM, ROTEL, SUNFIRE, ANTHEM, OUTLAW, PROCEED, ARAGON, ATI, PARASOUND, B&K, SHERBOURN, all things being equal I'm leaning towards the SHERBOURN because it's really 5 mono block 200 watt amps in one unit. My speakers are ENERGY CONNOISSEUR C7'S for mains, ENERGY C-C3 center, POLK LSi/FX REARS, & a SVS 25-31PLUS sub. I'm itching to pull the trigger. What do you guys recommend for my situation. Down the road I'll probably sell the NAD & go with a new processor. Thanks

[unbridled_id]

You like the nad sound so perhaps you could check out the nad T-973. Nad also has a pre to go with the amp, http://www.spearitsound.com.

[marker]

Quite frankly, with that receiver and it's two torridial transformers, you don't need a seperate power amp. Even if you got a 200 x 5 or 200 x 7 external amp, you'd probably be hard pressed to even tell the difference.

Save your $$$ or put them into another part of your system.

[dorokusai]

I'm biased to Parasound beings I have alot of experience with that manufacturer and product line, but they're all nice choices. I've handled a few of those brands and have no change in opinion.

I really like monoblock designs, but most are still strapped internally, module or otherwise, so the idea takes a hit when it comes to power source supply. The channels are segmented, and seperate, but often cheap out on components at that level as well.

Go with something not many ppl have....make your own decision, don't follow the pack. We will eat you ALIVE!

[F1nut]

You John's neighbor?

[dorokusai]

Who's John's neighbor? Please clarify.

EDIT: Oh, the Magnolia thing, gotcha'.

[pearsall001]

I'm looking for advice on buying an amp. Not interested in who's your neighbor. By the way my neighbor's Frank.

[2+2]

I think F1 is refering to your location of Magnolia NJ from which another poster Jstas (or something like that) is from.

Dont know NADs but your receiver sounds like a beast.....

[Mike Reeter]

My vote would be for the NAD T-973,when and IF you upgrade your processor,you're set for 7.1

[unc2701]

Look for a used bryston 9B-ST, aka Lexicon 512. Should be in your budget. It's a 5x monoblock design, and even though they call it "125 watts" it'll spec out at about 170 watts with .001%THD, or well into the 200 watt range by the specs most manufacturers use. 20 year no questions asked fully transferable warranty.

[marker]

I still say the NAD T773's power amp section is as good and strong as having a seperate 125 X 7 power amp, but if you must get one, the NAD S250, 125 X 5 or 200 X 2. Made for NAD by Gryphon, a European high end manufacturer. Available new at Saturday Audio, an authorized dealer for $999. Will be more refined than the amp section in the T773.

On a side note, I've read somewhere that NAD measured a 100-some watt per channel Marantz receiver by the same standards they measure their own, and the Marantz speced out at something like 30 watts per channel.

[unc2701]

The NAD is better than most recievers in that it's got the dual power supplies, but there's still plenty of room for improvement w/ seperates. I think that both the Bryston & the NAD s250 (they've got pretty similiar specs) will cover what you're looking for if you're going to go out & spend $2000 on a 5 channel power amp.

Marker does make a good point- $2000 will also buy you some nice speakers, sources, etc. Is the power section of your amp truly the weak point of your system right now?

[ND13]

Check out these Jolida hybridshttp://unitedhomeproducts.com/id100.htm . For not much over your budget you can have all three for 7.1. I would think they would sound wonderful with the tube pre and ss output. Just another wrench thrown in the gears.:)

[marker]

ND13, it's funny you mentioned that as I've been seriosly comptemplating getting the 3 channel hybrid 1704 RC Jolida to match my 1501 RC 2 channel integrated.

Jolida suggests getting a DVD player with it's own processing though.

How would this set up be with the pre/pro section of the Fosgate feeding the pre-amp section of the Jolidas? Having in effect 2 pre-amps?

[ND13]

Originally posted by marker
ND13, it's funny you mentioned that as I've been seriosly comptemplating getting the 3 channel hybrid 1704 RC Jolida to match my 1501 RC 2 channel integrated.

Jolida suggests getting a DVD player with it's own processing though.

How would this set up be with the pre/pro section of the Fosgate feeding the pre-amp section of the Jolidas? Having in effect 2 pre-amps?

I'm sure you can bypass the pre section, but that's the good part.
I'm sure there's a way of doing it or they wouldn't have combined the Fosgate with them. That Fosgate is really cool, huh? Check out the rest of the stuff they carry, some of it is mindblowingly cool shit.

[marker]

There are no pre-ins on the Jolidas, at least not on mine, and it is a brand spankin' new model that does have pre-outs though, which I understand is a new feature.

[marker]

And yes, the Fosgate does look cool as hell. Is that the same as the Parasound Halo?

[ND13]

Originally posted by marker
And yes, the Fosgate does look cool as hell. Is that the same as the Parasound Halo?

I just recently started shopping for a tube amp and haven't got the chance to see any of the Jolida gear in person so I really don't know anymore than what I've read here and on the net. I would have to think that a high-end shop like that wouldn't combine the two if the tube pre wasn't going to be utilized. What would be the point?

[unc2701]

It'd be a pain to properly integrate them... the only way to do it is with a DVD player with a built in processor or an outboard processor. You couldn't use your typical HT preamp/ reciever since the Jolida's accept line level signals (200 mV), but all preamp outputs are 1v, 2v, or 4v. So you'd have 2 preamps in the signal path - to keep it from clipping you'd have to crank your receiver way down to get something like a 200mv output... overall this would negate any gains that the hybrid amps would offer.

EDIT: And I've heard some bad things abuot United Home Products, so yes, they might combine two pieces of gear that do NOT go together.

[ND13]

Originally posted by unc2701
It'd be a pain to properly integrate them... the only way to do it is with a DVD player with a built in processor or an outboard processor. You couldn't use your typical HT preamp/ reciever since the Jolida's accept line level signals (200 mV), but all preamp outputs are 1v, 2v, or 4v. So you'd have 2 preamps in the signal path - to keep it from clipping you'd have to crank your receiver way down to get something like a 200mv output... overall this would negate any gains that the hybrid amps would offer.

I wonder why they would combine them then? I'm not questioning your logic, their's?

[marker]

The last 2 posts sum up my thoughts exactly. If you use the Fosgate's pre-section, then what's the pupose of even having the tubed pre sections on the Jolidas in the first place?

Sorry for the hi-jack, but what are some good DVD players with their own decoding?

Edit- whoops, make that 2 of the last 3 posts as ND13 made another one just before I could finish mine.

[ND13]

Originally posted by marker
The last 2 posts sum up my thoughts exactly. If you use the Fosgate's pre-section, then what's the pupose of even having the tubed pre sections on the Jolidas in the first place?

Sorry for the hi-jack, but what are some good DVD players with their own decoding?

I have a tosh with DD built in and HDCD capabilities, and it's the first DVD I ever purchased. SD 2200 dual disc.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

Originally posted by pearsall001
I'm looking for advice on buying an amp. Not interested in who's your neighbor. By the way my neighbor's Frank.
what a putz...

[ND13]

Originally posted by Polkmaniac
what a putz...

Some people just don't get it. I'm new here and would have never asked for help and then get all pissy when someone asked a humorous question. No sense of humor, just the facts, please.
Dragnet style.

[unc2701]

Yeah, DVD's with builtin decoders are getting more scarce, it seems. Everyone has recievers w/ DD & DTS these days, so the market has gone away, I think. Anyhow, I just checked out the specs on the Fostgate & it really doesn't integrate well with those hybrids at all. If it had some kind of post-decoder/ pre-preamp output, it'd work, but nope, nothing like that. As you guys noted out above, if the Jolidas had a power amp input, it'd work, but you'd bypass the tubes, so what's the point?

I'll try to find where I heard about United Home Products being shady...

[marker]

In the immortal words of the great civil rights activist King* "Can't we all just get along?"

*-Rodney that is, not Dr. Martin Luther

[marker]

Originally posted by unc2701
If it had some kind of post-decoder/ pre-preamp output, it'd work, ...

Does such a thing even exist? Not saying it doesn't, but I've never heard of it, I don't think.

[ND13]

Originally posted by unc2701
Yeah, DVD's with builtin decoders are getting more scarce, it seems. Everyone has recievers w/ DD & DTS these days, so the market has gone away, I think. Anyhow, I just checked out the specs on the Fostgate & it really doesn't integrate well with those hybrids at all. If it had some kind of post-decoder/ pre-preamp output, it'd work, but nope, nothing like that. As you guys noted out above, if the Jolidas had a power amp input, it'd work, but you'd bypass the tubes, so what's the point?

I'll try to find where I heard about United Home Products being shady...

So for someone like me that has a DVD with DD decoder, I could use the Jolidas without a pro, correct? I just wouldn't need the extra 2 channel.

[marker]

Correctomundo!

[unc2701]

Yeah, that'd be a sweet 5.1 system, but getting the volume balanced between the mains and the 3 channel amp could be a pain. They should add a volume control daisy-chain output for that.

[ND13]

Originally posted by marker
In the immortal words of the great civil rights activist King* "Can't we all just get along?"

*-Rodney that is, not Dr. Martin Luther

One can only try, it's not a one-way street.

And see what happens to your thread if you get all pissy:D :p

[marker]

I believe you can use a set of tape monitor loops for this, but I could be wrong (and probably am). My first DPL processor way back in '93 was a Yamaha unit that also had power amps for center, rear, and front "effects" speakers.

I hooked it up to my Adcom GTP-400 tuner/pre-amp at that time by a set of the tape in and outs, set the volume on the Adcom tuner/pre-amp to the 12:00 position, the so called unity gain setting, and then controlled the overall volume through the Yamaha processor. I know it sounds complicated, but it worked!

Then you could simply just calibrate the sytem as normal, correct?

[marker]

Yeah, we have pretty much hi-jacked this thread haven't we?

[unc2701]

yep, hijack.... but hey, he can still learn a thing or two reading all our bullshit. BTW, PM me when you reschedule the RDU meet.

[marker]

Will do, and I'll bring my Jolidas when we do it.

Did you ever find the dirt on United Audio BTW?

[ND13]

Originally posted by marker
Yeah, we have pretty much hi-jacked this thread haven't we?

But at least it's still on the 5.1 topic.

[unc2701]

Originally posted by marker
Did you ever find the dirt on United Audio BTW?

I'm starting to think I knocked the wrong place... They're actually authorized dealers for a number of manufacturers, which usually means that they're not totally dodgy. I'll let you know if I find anything.

[shack]

Originally posted by ND13
But at least it's still on the 5.1 topic.
Except for the fact that the NAD T773 is a 7.1 AVR. (which I would keep and spend the $2,000 on someting else)

[ND13]

Originally posted by unc2701
I'm starting to think I knocked the wrong place... They're actually authorized dealers for a number of manufacturers, which usually means that they're not totally dodgy. I'll let you know if I find anything.

All I know is that they set-up at alot of high-end gear shows, and I wouldn't think that the manufacturers the represent would allow anything TOO shady occur.

[ND13]

Originally posted by shack
Except for the fact that the NAD T773 is a 7.1 AVR. (which I would keep and spend the $2,000 on someting else)


I meant to write 5 channel topic. Sorry.

Sincerely,

Effin Yankee Carpet Bagger ;)

[marker]

Tell it like it is Shack-o-mighty! Frankly, the NAD seperates, the T163 pre/pro and T973 power amp are not better enough than the T773 as to justify over twice the price difference IMO.

The seperates would probably only be subtly better at best.

The T773 power amp section has a serious set of balls on it.

[pearsall001]

thanks for all the great responses. After all the dust has settled I think I am going to go in a different direction from my original post. After talking to a fellow from Philly that has a hi-end audio store (he even carries NAD) along w/ some really outrageous stuff. His take on the whole thing is that I would be making an expensive lateral move with the T163 pre/pro & the T973. He said there would be no justification in spending that much money for no real audible sound difference. Apparently that T773 receiver is a real killer of a piece. He said that pretty much any of the 5 channel amps in the $2000 range would not give me enough bang for the buck to make the move. I pretty much agree with him. I listened to some of the 5 channel amps & I even commented to myself that none of them could persuade me to make the move. The T773 was not outdone by these separate amps IMO. I think I am going for a killer 2 channel amp that will also boost my HT experience & give me what I am looking for in 2 channel sound. In that same price range (maybe a few bucks more, but worth it) I can step up into ROQUE AUDIO, LINN, ELECTROCOMPANIET, & a few others. I have bought from him before & he was & still is a straight shooter & he really knows his audio.

[marker]

A wise decision, me thinks. Good luck!

[F1nut]

United Home Audio and Jolida have the same address. Anybody want to quess why?

[marker]

OK guys, I talked to my Jolida dealer yesterday, and here's the deal. Although you can use a DVD player with it's own DD/DTS processing, you would still have no common volume control over the two Jolida hybrid intergrateds.

They do in fact suggest using a pre/pro. Just as I thought, you set the volume on the Jolidas to the 12:00 unity gain (whatever the hell that is) position and then do a normal one time calibration on the system as you normally would with the test ones from the pre/pro, and then control the overall volume of all channels simutaneously with the pre/pro every time you use it after that. So you do in fact have two pre-amps in the chain.

If I'd have thought about it, this is exactly what I'm already doing on my game room system. I run the NAD T753's AVR pre-ins and outs to a tape monitor loop's outs and ins on the NAD C160 pre-amp. When watching movies, I put the C160's volume at the 12:00 position, and then control the overall volume with the AVR, even the mains which are driven by the dual mono-bridged NAD C270 power amps fed by the C160 pre-amp. So in effect, I'm using 2 pre-amp sections myself that way.

My dealer actually suggested the same thing Jesse did to the original poster of this thread on another thread, to just use the tubes for 2 channel. Instead of getting the 3 channel Jolida integrated, he suggested a Denon AVR-3805. He believes, and I'm inclined to agree, that you would be hard pressed to find a better pre-pro on the market for movies at anywhere close to the price, and that it is more than adequate to drive the center and surrounds. He actually talked himself OUT of a sale on the 3 channel Jolida hybrid (unless he was just trying to make one on the 3805).