ideas on a decent budget - midpriced redbook cdp

[michael_w]

For about 6 months now I've been fully aware that my source is the weak point in my system and now it's gotten to the point where my pos sources have just broken down on me and I need to get something to replace them. My main goal here is to pick up something for under $500 canadian that will sound the best with my 2 ch system. I listen to music 95% of the time so 2 ch sound is the main and only priority. I can deal with buying a cheapo dvd player later just to have ht.

I am not really in a hurry to go out and buy something so this is just brainstorming / research for when I plan to go and drop lots of cash on a source. I have two cdps in mind at the moment. The Cambridge Audio Azur 540C and the NAD C3521bee which I think both go for around $4-500 on the web but I have to call some dealers to find out exact prices. I want to buy new from an authorized dealer since I have had bad luck with sources as they tend to break by themselves more often than anything else.

Just by looking at the specs it seems that the 540c has a better dac and looks better but all I care about is sound. Any ideas? I can't find a dealer that carries both NAD and CA so doing an A / B test is going to be hard but I will eventually get out there and demo some gear. Would the nad fit with my other gear better since I already have a nad in the mix for amp / preamp?





This is what I'm running to maybe help for suggestions:

2 Ch:

LSI 7s
DIY Ascendant Audio Atlas 15 powered by a CSS Sub250RF putting 360 watts into 4 ohms
Toshiba SD3800 (that doesn't play dvds anymore and fritzs out on many of my cds now)
Kimber Heros from dvdp to integrated
NAD C352

HT:

Panasonic SAHE-75
Electrohome pos that kind of died on me about 2 weeks ago so now ht is out of commision
Polk Monitor 7Bs (fronts)
Polk CSI30
Athena AS-B1 (rears)

[F1nut]

IMO, pick up a used Jolida JD 100A and don't look back. Just swap out the stock Chinese tubes if they are still in it.

[michael_w]

At around $1000 USD brand new it is slightly over my $500 cdn budget but I will keep it in mind. Like I said I'm in no hurry for this so if it means waiting a while to try and justify to myself spending a grand on a cdp I will do that. At the moment I'm not really poor but I am jobless and would rather not spend huge amounts of money on audio since I am saving for post secondary which is fast approaching (grade 12 in september :( ) On the other hand I don't want to spend $500 on a cdp and want to upgrade within a year so I'll keep in mind any suggestions to buy what would be best for me. btw I am currently job hunting at local audio stores so maybe I'll score a job and employee discount somewhere decent :)

[F1nut]

Screw buying it new, the thing is built like a tank. Used on Audiogon is running about $500 to $600 USD.

[michael_w]

I will keep an eye out on the used market for one but preferable from canada since crossing the border is very very pricy for me. Damn taxes, duties, brokerage fees all that crap is expensive. I don't know if it only happens with low end mass market sources but every single source (dvd player / cd player) that either my dad or myself has owned has died after a year or two. I check out the listings on canuck audio mart almost every day (it's a canadian online classified audio only site) and occasionally check out the buy and sell.

Thanks for the info and recommendation.

[F1nut]

I hear ya, that brokerage crap really gets you. I bought a big buck piece from Canada, I know.

Seriously, the Jolida is a very nice piece.

[dragon1952]

Also you might consider the Music Hall CD-25/Shanling CD-S100/Onix XCD-88 which are almost identical and highly upgradeable, and are a bit better than the NAD even in their stock form (and not far off in price). You can get the Onix for around $320US and the Music Hall for around $470US and that's brand new and includes shipping. Upgrade the opamps at your leisure and you've got a really fine player.
BTW, I also have the Jolida but you would have to come up with very close to $600 shipped on a used one, maybe $550 if you're very lucky. New you can get one for around $785US shipped.

[marker]

Originally posted by F1nut
I hear ya, that brokerage crap really gets you. I bought a big buck piece from canada, I know.

Seriously, the Jolida is a very nice piece.

I'll second that. I have both that and a NAD C542, and IMO, the Jolida is better. However, when compared to the NAD S500, then it becomes a different story

[michael_w]

Look what I just found....

http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/11820-shanling_cds100_mki

$400 cdn then shipping.... think thats an alright price? If they go for $320-470 us I'm not so sure...

btw I don't plan on buying from the us unless it is a rediclously good deal. for example I bought a pair of speakers from washington for $200 usd. After everything they ended up costing me about $430-500 cdn. (still an awesome deal though)

[dragon1952]

Well you'll pay a little more for the Shanling and Music Hall, probably due to the name brand. I think list price on them is around $599. I was recently offered the Music Hall for $465 shipped from Underwood Hi-fi though. The Onix is being discounted from $399 to $299. I won't mention the place though as I had a bad experience with them. Nice CD player though and virtually the same inards as the other two.
If you could get that Shanling for $400CAN shipped it might not be a bad deal. Mention the scratch. But if you don't plan on at least upgrading the opamps and power cord and you can find a great deal on something like a NAD C541i or 521i that might be the way to go. They're all close enough in stock form.

[michael_w]

OK thanks I'll wait and see what else comes along. At the moment I'm not really into modding expensive stuff since my diy abilities are very limited. (just starting to get into diy)

[shack]

The Rotel RCD-02 is another to consider at $499 MSRP.

[F1nut]

Originally posted by marker
I'll second that. I have both that and a NAD C542, and IMO, the Jolida is better. However, when compared to the NAD S500, then it becomes a different story

What tubes are you using in the Jolida?

[ezc]

If you can find a used Tjoeb that may be another option. Add the upsampler & better tubes at a later date to keep the cost down.

[unbridled_id]

A VERY IMPORTANT
THING HAS COME TO OUR NOTICE ABOUT THE QUALITY OF JD100 AND JD100H OF
JOLIDA. PLEASE SEE AS BELOW FROM OUR COMPANY'S INTERNAL MEMO:
MANY COMPLAINTS ON JD100 AND JD100H AFTER 4 TO 5 MONTHS' USE BY FRANCE AND
OTHER EUROPEAN CUSTOMERS (E.G, SPAIN) ON TRACKING ERROR, MAIN BOARD PROBLEMS
AND EVEN BAD TRANSISTORS AND INCOMPETENT TRANSISTORS.
PLEASE FIND BELOW ONE OF OUR CLIENT'S REPORT:I have work all the we on the cd player with my oncle who
has hill skills in electronic. We have tested all the
components, we have changed the capacitors which were more
than ten percents under their values, and we have found a
bad transistor which made a short circuit and changed it.
Then we listened to the player and the boost is now on the
two channel but less than before. The boost is only on
certain frequencies such as the piano at the beginning of
John Lennon's Imagine. Now we think that the problem can
come from only two things : first it may be one of the
integrated circuits. Secondly it can be the tubes even if
at the beginning the boost was on the right channel
whatever the tube, but they have been maybe damaged by the
short circuit. We have in addition tried without the tubes
and in that case the sound is good (but not amplified).
Tomorrow I will order two svetlana 12AX7 (it was planned
before the breakdown) to try. If the boost remains I would
like to know if it is possible that you provide me with
the tube's circuit board and with the electric board.
Thanks for help and advice.
Best regards from France.

This version has hdcd, upgraded tubes and some other upgraded internals.

[F1nut]

HUH???

[unbridled_id]

I am interested in the jolida cdp and always read any feedback on the unit. I was on audioreview and the latest review for the jolida cdp was for the JD100H; which seems to be a newer version. What I posted was from a European dealer, and I just wanted to put it out there for consumption. Does this adequately answer your huh ?

[RuSsMaN]

What the F is that post about unbridled?

[F1nut]

The only version available here is the JD100A, so I wouldn't concern myself with that post from France.

[TroyD]

Oh, well, if it's from audioreview.......man, guess I better dump mine. :rolleyes:

Unbridled, do you own the CD player in question or is this just a random shot in the dark?

BDT

[dragon1952]

Originally posted by F1nut
The only version available here is the JD100A, so I wouldn't concern myself with that post from France.


Yeah.....the guy can't even speak English :rolleyes:



:confused:

[ND13]

Originally posted by dragon1952
Yeah.....the guy can't even speak English :rolleyes:



:confused:


I was going to say something about the Frenchy's broken english, but that's only an excuse for oral communication not written.

[unbridled_id]

I am not bashing the unit or anyone who owns the unit. My cdp is a nad c541i, and I have often heard having tubes in the chain is a positive thing so I concentrated on a tubed cdp, which is why I have been looking at the Jolida. I also read another member who bought a jolida cdp and had an issue with the unit; perhaps another’s issues with the unit would illuminate the situation. I was just adding some information, sometimes information isn't positive. Despite that I love the look and reviewed performace of the unit and really want to incorporate tubes into my system via the cdp..

[RuSsMaN]

On the tubes issue, I don't think that's why the Jolida sounds as good as it does. It sounds good because the transport / laser assembly are high quality, along with the opamps and dac. Overall, it's a well built player - the tube output is just icing on an already delicious cake - and if anything, lets the user 'tailor' the sound via tube rolls.

Cheers,
Russ

[unbridled_id]

I found out about the JD100H from an owner who posted a review on audioreview (5 star review by the way). After reading the review I googled the jolida jd100H, and found that piece of information I posted. Do I have to own the unit to post the opinion of another? Let's not act threatened about this, it is an opinion which to a degree has been validated by someone on this board. Do I have to duck now, you know I own polk speakers (rti-10's) so am I immune to rebuttals ?

[unbridled_id]

I have had my eye on the unit for awhile, though I do not want to get too deep into all the mod units. I have read (so many opinions out there) that many mods are acutally detrimental to the units overall performance. The parts inside the unit are from all reports to be of high quality, so perhaps the fellow who had the negative feedback delt with afew bad apples, perhaps he is stark raving mad..

[F1nut]

I don't recall anyone having a issue with a Jolida cdp on here, got a link?

As for the JD100H, the Jolida site doesn't list it, so it must be a Euro model only.

BTW, no op-amps in the Jolida.

[unbridled_id]

Ok f1, dragon 1592 posted this on June 13th "The Jolida I just bought seems to occassionally have a problem recognizing that there is a disc inserted. This seems to happen when I either leave it in standby or leave it powered on overnight with a CD in it. I'll hit play and the CD will spin forwards and backwards for a few seconds and then display 'No Disc". This happens even if I eject the CD and re-insert it. Powering the player off and on seems to clear the problem. Does anyone else's player do this? I was just adding some additional information to this". Though the unit seems to be a European model I would hazard a guess a majority of the internals are the same.

[ND13]

Originally posted by unbridled_id
Ok f1, dragon 1592 posted this on June 13th "The Jolida I just bought seems to occassionally have a problem recognizing that there is a disc inserted. This seems to happen when I either leave it in standby or leave it powered on overnight with a CD in it. I'll hit play and the CD will spin forwards and backwards for a few seconds and then display 'No Disc". This happens even if I eject the CD and re-insert it. Powering the player off and on seems to clear the problem. Does anyone else's player do this? I was just adding some additional information to this". Though the unit seems to be a European model I would hazard a guess a majority of the internals are the same.

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29594&highlight=jolida

Here's the whole thread.

[RuSsMaN]

You're right, no op amps, even better.

[unbridled_id]

I was just throwing out some additonal information, another point of view, are you all democrats or what ? Seriously, I thought I read something somewhere else similar to what dragon said though I have to admit I cannot remember where... I do not believe the Jolida cdp's have a problem and would love to try one out some day. I value all of your opinins and views and know your experience is greater than mine. Rest easy folks, your jolida in most application will top my nad and I am slightly envious, maybe that is it, it's just irrational jealousy !!!

[michael_w]

Thanks everyone for the posts... I like to hear good news about the player as much as I do bad news. I would like to know of any common flaws and stuff like that before I drop some cash so thanks for the heads up. (of course as well as why this thing is so awesome :p)

Your little side debates only keep me learning more so keep em comin :)

[ND13]

Anyone that doesn't want their Jolida cdp just send it this direction and I'll give it a good home:D

[dragon1952]

Since someone brought this back up, I subsequently exchanged several emails with Michael Allen at Jolida. He said it sounded like a problem with the main chip or the transport chip. Shortly thereafter I ran into a great deal on a 2 week old Jolida and bought it also. Since the main chip is socket mounted and is located in plain view with easy access I swapped main chips between the players and the problem followed the main chip to the new CDP, so it is obviously the main chip. Michael said it sounds like it got a spike in voltage or something. I don't know about that. I did find a thread on Audiogon where several people seemed to have the same problem. There also is a blurb in the back of the manual on the possiblity of 'No Disc' errors and blaming it on the fact that , due to the all metal construction, the player is susceptible to static electricity which could cause this problem. I don't know about that either. It just makes you wonder if they knew about a potential problem and tried to cover it up by blaming it on static electricity. Typically microcontroller IC's like this, or IC's in general for that matter, are susceptible to static electricity but the only danger is usually from touching the pins during installation (or after).
What kind of pisses me off is that this Michael dude is a little aloof and vague and doesn't really answer your questions very well. Meaning it took many emails to finally get enough out of him to be helpful, then he just dumped me and quite answering. They obviously would rather have you pay $50-$60 for round-trip shipping, pay an hour's worth of labor at $75 an hour for about 20 minutes worth of work, and $70 for a new chip that costs them about $7.00, rather than tell you how to do it yourself. I got the impression through his vague answers that he wouldn't just sell me the chip or tell me where I could get one. They're impossible to find through a retailer. You just about have to push yourself off as a business and order a quantity of at least 10 through a wholesaler. I found one place that would sell me 10 for $7.50 a shot. But finally, through a whole lot of searching, I found a company that makes a compatible replacement microcontroller, pushed myself off as a business and ordered 2 free samples :D Anyway, my point is that, considering I was a customer who purchased 2 of their units already and was obviously a potential customer again, and considering the damn chips shouldn't be failing anyway (AND only cost them 7 freakin' dollars), I thought he could have been more helpful instead of expecting me to shell out $200 more for them to do it. To me that isn't standing by your product, it's trying to milk the customer for more.
However, having said that and even with the issues I am still extremely happy with the player and would certainly recommend it and/or buy from them again. This silly issue with the 'No Disc' is intermittant and isn't really all that bothersome and all you have to do is turn the freakin' thing off and on and it's fine.
Sorry for the rant :o

[BlueMDPicker]

Originally posted by dragon1952
What kind of pisses me off is that this Michael dude is a little aloof and vague and doesn't really answer your questions very well.

No surprise there, he's just as charming in person.

[F1nut]

Originally posted by dragon1952

What kind of pisses me off is that this Michael dude is a little aloof and vague and doesn't really answer your questions very well.

LOL......yep, that's Mike, even in person.

I had (obviously) forgotten about your problem. Thanks for the reminder, unbridled_id.

Let me add that there isn't a piece of gear made that doesn't have a problem every now and then. It's the ones that have nothing but problems that you should avoid.

[dragon1952]

Originally posted by unbridled_id
Ok f1, dragon 1592 posted this on June 13th

Oh that dude? He's an idiot.....don't listen to a word he says :rolleyes:

And BTW, It's 1952, homes...not 1592. Sheesh, who do you think I am anyway, William freaking Shakespeare? :rolleyes:
And there's no space! :mad:

[Zero]

Jolida is ok...and while the JD-100 is an alright piece.. you mine as well shell out some extra dollars and get a Meridian 508.20 and step into a whole other class of front-end.

[BlueMDPicker]

Originally posted by michael_w
Your little side debates only keep me learning more so keep em comin :)

Here's another option well worth your consideration:

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23663&highlight=Eastern+Electric+MiniMax

[dragon1952]

Originally posted by Zero
Jolida is ok...and while the JD-100 is an alright piece.. you mine as well shell out some extra dollars and get a Meridian 508.20 and step into a whole other class of front-end.

People seem to be losing a bundle on those. $3000 new vs around $800 for the Jolida but they're both pretty simalarly priced used. I wonder what's up with that? I don't know....it might be a pretty decent player but I'll say one thing about it. It sure is UGLY! :p

[dragon1952]

Originally posted by BlueMDPicker
Here's another option well worth your consideration:

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23663&highlight=Eastern+Electric+MiniMax

Gee.....that transport sure looks familiar! :confused: Now lemme see....hmmmm?!

[F1nut]

Originally posted by Zero
Jolida is ok...and while the JD-100 is an alright piece.. you mine as well shell out some extra dollars and get a Meridian 508.20 and step into a whole other class of front-end.

Hmmmm.......20 bit technology, no upsampling, op amps and no tubes. No thanks!

[unbridled_id]

Dragon1952 not 1592, I've got it now, at least I didn't say 1492 !! What about this cdp the Njoe Tjoeb 4000, anybody have feedback on that one? I believe it uses only a tube output...

[dragon1952]

Originally posted by unbridled_id
Dragon1952 not 1592, I've got it now, at least I didn't say 1492 !!

Then I could have said. "Who the hell do you think I am anyway...Christopher freakin' Columbus?" ;)

Yeah, at least you got all the numbers.....just a little dyslexic is all :D

I've heard lots of good things about the Ah! Tjoeb. The only thing I have against them, never having demoed one, is that it's rather ugly (like the Meridian) and it's got a funny name.

[F1nut]

The Ah! is also a good choice. Beardog has one, maybe he'll chime in.

[Zero]

Drag,

Age plays a major factor into current pricing. Sources drop in value quicker than any other piece of the audio chain, including cables.

Some of that has to do with motor wear, others is the impression that the latest dac's and design offer greater performance and value, which flat out is not true in many cases. I will agree however, it is fugly.

F1,

To each their own. Op amps are never a good thing, I concur there. 20 bit technology is still perfectly fine for redbook and upsampling... upsampling? My Lord..

[ND13]

Hey Michael, you learnin anything, now:p .

[michael_w]

Thanks for sharing your "experiance" here dragon1952... as for the Meridian.... lets put it this way -- A cdp that costs nearly four grand canadian is going to be about 75% of what I make in a year ;) I'll check out that Eastern Electric MiniMax. Much to read and hard to choose when the market is flooded with good choices.

And yes Noel I learn something new every time I visit club polk. http://geocities.com/minilegolas/pics/34.gif

[marker]

Originally posted by F1nut
What tubes are you using in the Jolida?

The very ones you suggested, Ei Elite 12AX7EG gold pins from http://www.tubesdirect.com with at least 200 hours burn in time on them. I've also changed the power cord on it to one from PS Audio.

I've compared the Jolida hybrid integrated and tube CD player against the NAD Silver Series int. and CDp on both the RT2000i and NHT SB3 speakers, both with each other's matching component and mixed together (ie. NAD CDp w/ Jolida hybrid int. and Jolida tube CDp w/ NAD int.), and IMO, the NADs just have more detail, bass control and dynamics in both cases. As well they should though since the retail on both pieces is quite a bit more than the Jolidas.

I think the Jolida hybrid int. is very conservatively rated at 100 watts. I believe it really has more than that, but I also think the NAD S300 int is even more conservatively rated in it's power at 100 watts. I believe it's probably pushing about double that.

[unbridled_id]

Those silver series components never did make a big splash in the states. There is universal agreement that the nad silver series is quite good... I really was looking at the s100 pre before I went with a passive... I also really like that s200 amp, what a solid looking piece of gear that is..
Perhaps you did the wise thing, purchasing the s300 and getting both in one box, doesn't it weigh over 60 lbs ? Also how much better of a perfomer is the s500i over the c 542 ?

[marker]

I have the S100/S200 combo in my main 2 channel rig along with the S500i CD player. I have the S300 integrated in my office rig along with a S500 CD player. Don't know exactly what the improvements in the S500i over the S500 really were supposed to be though. And yes, they are all HEAVY mofos!

It has been said that the Silver Series components were made for NAD by Gryphon. As one exanple, compare the S300 integrated, http://www.nadelectronics.com/hifi_amplifiers/s300_framset.htm to the Gryphon Callisto 2100 integrated, http://www.gryphon-audio.dk/default2.asp (click on products, the integrated amps, the Callisto 2100).

[michael_w]

Well I think it looks like I won't be content with something lower end / one that follows my original budget. I want to do it right the first time to save me cash in the long run. I'm going to put it off (yet again) until I can't stand this crappy toshiba any longer. Also need to stop bein a bum and get myself a job :p At the moment it's a little too hard being jobless to justify spending a grand on a cd player so I'll start working on that one.

Thanks again to eveyone for your very helpful suggestions, criticism and personal experiance with these cdps. I will upgrade eventually but for now I'm just going to enjoy the tunes. (and keep an eye out on the used market ;) )

[audiobliss]

Sounds cool, man. I guess that's basically what I'm doing. Rock out!