Our society

[Mazeroth]

After reading the thread on the price of gas I started thinking about how much we rely on vehicles in our lives and how our lives are seemingly getting worse and worse even though technology keeps advancing.

Imagine the US 100 years ago. No real roads. Minimal pollution. Barely even developed. Think about the peoples' quality of life, how much stress they had, how happy they were. I know I have no way of proving how stressed or happy they were, but my gut feeling tells me they were a lot happier and better off than we are today. Ignore medical advances, I'm just talking about overall quality of life.

Americans seem to work to support a material-driven lifestyle. Almost everyone I work with complains about not having enough money, having to send their kids to daycare and how expensive that is etc...yet they have no problem spending $3000 on a vacation to Disney, buying a 2800 ft2 house, a brand new SUV or a new 65in television. We Americans, in general, have our priorities way out of whack. When I tell people I don't have a cell phone they are absolutely ASTONISHED...speechless is a better word. Nothing pisses me off more than catching someone in their car, in the grocery store or in a restaurant on a cell phone. No, I'm not mad at that person or any of you guys for doing it, but I'm mad at ourselves for letting our society get as bad as it has.

My parents were born in 1945 and 1950 (myself in 1980) and the stories they tell me about how things were when they were growing up compared to how things are now...it's just sad. How children behaved in the 50s and how they behave today is a TOTAL 180. My fiancee is an elementary teacher in a public school and the stories I hear weekly are mind blowing. We live in a very nice neighborhood with minimal crime, nice housing and generally nice people, but the way their kids are acting is absolutely insane. What else is sad is 95% of the people I work with that are married and have kids have both parents working and have had their children in daycare. Instead of buying a new car or a huge house you don't need, why not stay home to raise your kid? Did you know the size of houses has almost doubled in the last 50 years, yet the size of families has dropped over 20%? Pretty amazing.

Another thing that has me disgusted is television. Again, look back 50 years ago and compare that to television of today. Hell, go back 20 years. HUGE difference. Primtime television, any day of the week, has a crime show on where someone is getting raped, killed etc...where detectives are looking for semen or evidence of sexual assault. Wow, talk about entertainment! The one show that really shocked me was aired about 6 months ago. I forget which one it was but it was about 13-14 year olds having huge orgies at their houses when parents weren't home and how some guys killed a girl while gangbanging her. These kids surely looked 13-14, were all half naked, all over each other. This show was on at 9:00 on an over-the-air channel so saying to not watch cable is bogus here. My question is...how is this entertainment? It is, because it's what our society has grown into. Also take a look at the news. I'd say 90% of that is about crime. What is the benefit of learning about all the crime going on? It does nothing positive but strike fear into people. Put on 30 minutes of positive news a day and our society wouldn't watch it. Sick.

Anywho, I can go on and on about this and if I've offended anyone that wasn't my intention. Maybe it will just get you thinking a little bit about how you live your life and if you're too stressed out to make a change. Only in the last year have I been thinking like this and trying to eliminate stress causers and I have noticed a huge improvement in my attitude and overall happiness. Instead of spening a lot of money on audio gear like I used to I spend my free time studying loudspeaker design, building speakers and doing woodworking. I enjoy it immensely and have even turned an overall profit off it, plus I've learned how to build speakers for practically 1/5th retail and really honed in my woodworking skills. Something else I've done recently is sat down and analyzed my finances and how to cut down on spending any way shape or form, and how to invest that money NOW so I can compound interest and retire early. Taking up free hobbies like biking, tennis, rollerblading etc is something my fiancee and I have also recently done. Not only is it great exercise but it's almost free to do and provides as much if not more enjoyment than going out and spending money on something else.

Lastly, my Mom sent me this link a few weeks ago and it really makes sense. Do yourself a favor and read what this guy is saying. You have my word it's worth your time:

http://www.rationalsimplicity.com/introduction.html

[F1nut]

Great write up!

BTW, No cellphone here either and I get the same reaction. I tell them they are ones with the problem, not me.

[jdhdiggs]

I think you nailed it on the head, everyone wants "stuff" and very few people are willing to do what's right (raise kids, be nice to other people, volunteer...) than do what gives them the most "stuff" or provides the easiest way out.

I hate the news as well: Why can't you tell the cool stories and not just the bad? No wonder kids think it's ok to hit, hurt, or murder people, they see it on the news as an everyday occurance!

Full Disclosure:
Both my wife and I have a cell phone, but we both work for consulting companies so a lot of the time it's the only way we keep in touch. Neither of us will use it in public or while driving though. ;)

When we do have kids, she will be a stay at home mom.

I agree with the retire early thing. My wife's entire paycheck and about 20% of mine goes into savings/retirement accounts. We will hopefully be able to retire when I'm 45, but will likely push that off until the future youngest starts college. I see other people in my age group who just FINALLY cut the strings from mommy and daddy and they buy the biggest house and nicest car they can afford (with both working) and have $400K in loans while making $60K/year. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Oh well, our country is now a "me first" country. I'll work on changing it over here...

[PolkThug]

Americans seem to work to support a material-driven lifestyle. [/url]

Exactly. No matter how much money I make, I spend it all, then I spend more I don't have (credit). But damn, I've got some nice toys. :)

[spasticpitbull]

Just give me my SDA's :)

[unc2701]

No cell phone here...

As for TV, what bothers me is the double standard for violence vs sex. How many people have you seen shot in person? Maybe one, two people on the board will have seen that in their whole lives. Ok, how often do you see someone naked? All the time, but you put .25 seconds of Janet Jackson's nipple on TV and everyone completely looses their shit.

Did you know that if a movie uses the word "Fuck" twice, it gets an R rating? One fuck= PG-13; two Fucks= R. Seriously, has it come to that?

[faster100]

Great write up, we switched things alittle and im a stay at home dad... I get some grief and eyebrow raises from people who think its a womans job.. But it's great, my wife makes 2 -3 times more then i could/did and daycare would take the majority of my pay check so we decided to try this... I sell online for extra money and she works a regular job.. We plan for me to get back to work after my 3 year old go's to daycare next year, In florida they started a free pre -K program so kids can get started for kindergarden... but been doing this for 6 years with good sucess.. Some times its feast or famen(sp) with my sales and money intake but it always seems to smooth out.. only problem is no health insurance... But i have plenty of toys to sell if need be,

The world has changed and will keep changeing, we have to try and adapt to "our" best interest and not the worlds..

and I hate the gas prices also, But we all have to deal with it to a certain extent.. Just another one of those things.

[Mike682]

Talk about kids and the level of disrespect today. Quick little story:
My mom's friend is a teacher in a junior high (or what is now called middle school). She was writing on the board when one of the students decided he was going to slap her on the a$$. Yep, he went and did it and was immediately sent to the principle's office. But it gets worse, the principle, who is also a female, asks my mom's friend "which cheek did he hit you on?" Her reply was what the hell does it matter??? Regardless, he still did what he did..The kid was switched to a diff class and was subsequently tossed out of the school because he basically did the same thing to another faculty member.

Also, a few of my friends are teachers and they all say that, on the avg, kids are very rude and have an attitude of self-entitlement, like the world owes them something. And if the kid does something wrong, the parents make an excuse or just deny outright that the kid misbehaved. Today, the burden of proof is on the teacher, in contrast to when I was in school. From what I hear this is extremely frustrating for teachers...

Why is it that today, people try to make excuses for their actions instead of actually admitting to doing something wrong and learning from it?

[bobman1235]

There's a book called The Progress Paradox (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0812973038/qid=1124370790/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-5008673-1068064?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) written by a guy named Greg Easterbrook (he writes the TMQ articles on NFL.com if you've ever read them). It's basically about this exact thing - life gets easier but people are more miserable.

[Early B.]

"America eats its young."

When you create a society based primarily on selfishness, materialism and consumerism, it will ultimately consume itself. That's what's happening, folks.

Children have no direction or discipline because their parents never grew up. Many adults behave like grown children. We get upset when we don't get our way; we argue with one another; we are selfish with our toys; we call each other names, etc. And as our children mimic our behavior, the cycle continues to spiral downward at a rapid pace.

So if children aren't raised properly, then this country will continue to deteriorate at a very rapid pace (within a couple of generations).

America is fundamentally bankrupt when it comes to socialization. The educational, religious, familial, and economic systems do not teach you what is most valuable in life -- how to raise children, how to manage money, how to get along with others, how to be a better person, how to deal with problems in life, how to find peace and happiness, etc. The fields of philosophy, psychology and sociology are a joke.

The answer to these problems will require revolutionary changes.

[aaharvel]

interesting Macro viewpoint of society.

[hellohello]

Children have no direction or discipline because their parents never grew up.
The answer to these problems will require revolutionary changes.
There are a lot of "parents" that arent grown up because, theyre not even adults! Yeah, i know, boys will be boys, girls wil be easy, whatever u say, but the whole society has changed since the 50's its waaay more permissive. An unwed mother way back when was looked down upon, and shunned even as a whore. Now its so common, no one bats an eye. I dunno, maybe im just way too old fashioned for my age.

[shack]

Each generation wistfully longs for "the good old days" of simpler times. This has been going on for eons. It's quite the romantic notion....and for the most part BS. Back 100 years ago I bet if you ask the average citizen how great they have it...they would talk about how hard they have to work to survive, how hard it is to support and care for their family, remain healthy, find good jobs, etc, etc, etc... The industrial age of the early 1900s was much different that the much less technical society of the early 1800s. Long hours in factories and or city jobs vs the farm/small town lives of their predecessors. Maybe they wished for the past.

When my grandfather was still alive he used to scoff at all of his buddies that "longed for the good old days" and that thought that "society was going to hell in a handbasket". He was a railroad mechanic and raised 9 kids. While he liked the simpler things in life (growing stuff in his garden and squirel and rabbit hunting), he marveled at the technolgical advances and could see the beauty in technology and embraced it. I guarantee if he were alive today he would revel in all the gadgets he could use. I guess I'm a lot like him.

Cell phones. Absoultely great. My kids can stay in touch and get to me and vice versa at a moments notice if they are lost, hurt, stranded, car trouble, in danger, etc. My aging parents know if they need help they can get through to us any time. The benefits far outwieght the miss-uses (my pet peeve is a guy taking a piss next to you at the urinal carrying on a full conversation - is there no sanctuary?).

And as far as our materialistic nature...In 2004, "reported" donations to charitable organizations was $250 billion with $188 billion of that from individuals. This is over and above the aid given by our federal government and the billions of dollars given to those in need directly. No other county comes close to the U.S. in terms of total or amount per capita giving. We are the most generous country in the world PERIOD!

You guys can go back to being farmers....or even better....hunters/gatherers. When you need some help just shoot me a text message...opps sorry....smoke signal or carrier pigeon. I'll see what I can do (when I can find the time).

[ND13]

When you create a society based primarily on selfishness, materialism and consumerism, it will ultimately consume itself. That's what's happening, folks.


Remember what happened to Rome?????



I have to have a cell phone for business and emergencies, period. I don't use it very often for socializing. I would be left behind, in my business, without a cell phone. Yeah, I know they used to do it without them, but times have changed. If I get a call while on the road, I pull over asap.

Oh and as far as my children's behavior goes, the wife and I get compliments all the time on how well behaved and polite our boys are. It all comes down to the parents. Too many believe that they can leave it up to the schools to raise their kids; "WRONG". I can remember when I was a kid, being raised in the 70's, that the community was very involved with raising kids. If one of the neighborhood kids was being bad, it wasn't tolerated. That kid would be drug by his ear to his parents to be disciplined. But today, parents are afraid to discipline their kids for fear that someone will try to have their kids taken away from them. What kids today need is discipline. I'm not talking about beatings, either. I was spanked by my parents, when warranted. I was never "abused". I don't consider a pop on the ass, "ABUSE". If my folks used a closed fist or struck me on my back or about the head, that would be "ABUSE". It just seems that since corporal punishment has been all but eliminated from the schools and most homes for that matter, the kids have gotten way out of hand. I, IN NO WAY, condone child abuse, so don't take me wrong. I actually have never had to spank my children, more than a slight pop on the bottom with an open hand, far from "ABUSE". As a matter of fact, my oldest, laughs. Just my couple of pennies.

[RuSsMaN]

I'm quite happy with my indoor plumbing, central heat and air, electrical lights and appliances, and Chevrolet that will do 26mpg on the highway. There is nothing about living 100 years ago that appeals to me, in any way, shape or forum.

As far as consumption, and the downfall of society - I don't care. I'll be LONG gone by the time that happens. For now, I'll continue to 'get mine'. Life is too short, I plan to enjoy it however I see fit.

Does that mean I litter, and drain my used motor oil into the sewer? Of course not, but I'm not going out of my way to plant trees either. All it will take is one big rock to fall out of the sky and the cycle starts over again. Maybe next time with the bees?

Cheers,
Russ

[bobman1235]

shack and RuSsMaN : +1

shack's right, the grass is always greener. Everyone looks at the 50's as this wonderful time, but look at what really happened, kids were out smoking and drinking and driving and having sex just like today. And parents said that their kids were trouble and had no discipline and all that other crap.

Life's too short, stop worrying about everything so much.

[Mike682]

"America eats its young."

When you create a society based primarily on selfishness, materialism and consumerism, it will ultimately consume itself. That's what's happening, folks.

Children have no direction or discipline because their parents never grew up. Many adults behave like grown children. We get upset when we don't get our way; we argue with one another; we are selfish with our toys; we call each other names, etc. And as our children mimic our behavior, the cycle continues to spiral downward at a rapid pace.

So if children aren't raised properly, then this country will continue to deteriorate at a very rapid pace (within a couple of generations).

America is fundamentally bankrupt when it comes to socialization. The educational, religious, familial, and economic systems do not teach you what is most valuable in life -- how to raise children, how to manage money, how to get along with others, how to be a better person, how to deal with problems in life, how to find peace and happiness, etc. The fields of philosophy, psychology and sociology are a joke.

The answer to these problems will require revolutionary changes.

The problem with the fields like Psy and Soc is that it is very hard to isolate and measure variables due to something called multiple determinates. In Social/behavioral sciences, it is very hard to isolate and measure a specific variable and prevent other variables from interfering with the results.

Look at the debate of the effect of violence in video games/films on kids. Since every kid that watches a violent event does not commit a violent act, you can't say that one casues the other. There may be a correlation but that does not imply that it's a cause of the violent act. This is why the debate will run on forever. Also look at smoking. Since everyone who smokes does not develop a cancer, the tobacco companies can say that it has not been proved that smoking causes cancer. And since it takes time to develop cancer, they can say that there were other factors (mult deteminates) that caused the cancer over the years.

[aaharvel]

Russ is right. I'm not going to pack up bare necessities and go live in the wilderness like Grizzly Adams, but I can see the other side of the coin as well.

Society evolves; for the better or worse. But that better or worse is not concrete, they're just points of view. Just live and enjoy it while you can.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

I'm taking the sampe position as Russ and Shack...

[reeltrouble1]

The best way to know your personal future is to invent it, if you dont someone else will do it for you. Just passed my 51st year and its been a quite a wonderful ride so far, guess I have learned a few things along the way and would change some things if I could but you cannot go back.

I see our young LEO cadets everyday. Someone mentioned 'entitlement" I sense that in them, more than other generations relating to the world in terms of how they are the center of their individual universe reacting as events effect their personal space, narcissistic, yes I suppose, they are also quite brave, still holding to their ideals, sounds like my young generation from three or so decades ago, we were going to change the world with peace love and a war machine if need be.

I still get angry about things but let it go easier than I once did. Bouncing Grandbabes on your knee does something for the soul.

RT1

[Jstas]

Life is what you make it, folks. If you think the quality of your life is so poor then stop talking about it and change it.

[Zero]

Mazeroth,

If we could theoretically turn back the clock and speak with our recent ancestors and other peoples of the age, you would be almost certain to find a quarry of complaints.

A century ago, you would land yourself in the middle of the industrial age. This was a time to where you had your rich, and poor. Middle class society as we have grown up to know, was only in the infantile stages. This alone, changes the dynamic of society.

Materialism was alive and well to those who could afford it. Those who did not were often viewed upon as sub-standard. There was less freedom of choice in the job-market, as one simply had to take whatever was available. Many families had to put their own children, some as young as 6, to work in polluted and hazardous factories, farms, and to a lesser degree, prostitution. Even within the poor society, there was status quo, and if you did not meet or adopt to it, you would be subject to ridicule and violence whether child or adult.

I wonder what the average woman in society would say, as this was a time when their life was often chosen for them, with little say or influence under any spectrum of important society. Ask those who were not white Americans, what general life was like. No hunting / labor regulations, or regulations on much of anything for that matter. Our country was a very different country, nevermind its role and influence in the world versus what we have come to grow up and know today.

Thus far I have given some illustrations as to the difficulty of life, but focusing in on the fabric of each family is something more difficult to do, especially not having lived even half a century of age. This I can say, it was a time of survival and you did what you could to survive. I struggle to find anything about our earlier history that over-all weighs in above what is experienced today.

Some of the stories I hear from people between ages 50-80 are romantic. I am sure all of us younger folk have heard about the days when you could leave your house unlocked, items in a yard without fear of your property becoming stolen. You might have been also told when the neighborhood was a society within itself, and everyone truly knew their neighbor and would often assist one another, be it with food aide or building a deck / shed. This was also a time when the average consumer wanted a quality product, not some cheap knock off that does the trick for a year or two. Sometimes people look back and find all the good times that are peaches and cream, completely cascading over the not so pleasant things of the day.

Today, we live in the most influential and strongest country this planet has seen. A major contributing factor is peoples growing appetite for ‘stuff’, which acts as the metaphoric fuel for our economy. As per the sentiment usually goes, too much of a good thing is never really a good thing at all.

Today, we are more tolerant of controversial things in life, beginning to distance ourselves from our early prudish ancestors. I do concur with you on many facets Maz.

It pains me to watch families who would rather buy an extra telephone line, than to put good, healthy meals on the table for themselves or their own children. It pains me to see todays youth caught up todays world, finding fewer adults to reliably look up to, and without decent discipline. I disagree with your point on kids behavior though. People have this notion that children are innocent, when that is further from the truth than any care to realize.

Today we are bombarded with advertisements on food, material products, and other temptations. News sources have often been devious and sometimes unreliable, and times have not changed much. The major difference now is that regular programming on other stations give the public what it generally wants, and that is sexual situations, violence, and general entertainment. Add to that the idealism of success and a desperate means to give off an impression of, as you per mentioned earlier.

In essence, today we live in a much busier, smaller, and richer world. With that comes its many benefits and parrels. The problems you mention are problems we face today and may continue to face as we grow, adapt, and mature. Moving forwards may sometimes entail moving backwards a few steps. There are many important issues today that require attention, and require action to be taken. Every society has its problems, be it American or foreign, be it this year, or hundreds of years ago.

[Skynut]

The "olden days" seem so simple but there were just as many problems back then as now, they were just different. My Grand parrents were all farmers. I used to go back and visit for weeks at a time and work on the farm with my cousins. I used to think it was such a perfect life but as I got older I realized they work hard, all the time. They did not take many vacations, they got up early and worked all day, they went to bed early so they could get up and do it all again the next day. Monday through Monday were all work days.

People paid less for housing but they had less house.

I really like how I live now but I am starting to realize that all the toys I purchase are forcing me to work longer in life. If I do not start to save I may have to work till I am 75 and that would suck.

I think life now is way better than it was in the "good old days" we have internet and computers that we can not live without. We think "how did we get along before this or before that". people have been saying that for ever.
How did we live before computers?
How did we live before cell phones?
How did we live before tractors?
How did we live before cars?
How did we live before fire?
Perhaps you get my message. We think the past was a better time but would not be willing to give up the things we consider necessities to live the way they did back then.

Make the best of what you have now and the way you have to live to be happy.

[Mike682]

Great book....I am sure would be a re-read for some:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0142000663/qid=1124381027/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-2262564-5946233?v=glance&s=books

[cfrizz]

This isn't so much about having stuff, but about being responsible. Life is short, so yes you better get while the getting is good. However, having said that be responsible as well.

You do not live on this planet alone, you probably have family & what you do, can & will have an impact on them as well.

While you are living your life & enjoying yourself, bear in mind that you are not going to live forever, & that things can change in the blink of an eye. While you are buying all of your toys, buy yourself a prepaid burial contract, or a life insurance policy or have money in the bank that family can get to so that they can bury you.

Your family should not have to bear the financial burden of that because you were too busy buying your toys & enjoying your life.

If you are too stupid or selfish to plan for the future & don't put something away for a rainy day, don't come looking to me for a handout, you should have saved when you had the chance. Nor should your family have to do so, since they have thier own lives to live & responsibilities to handle.

If you are a parent then BE A PARENT! Take responsibility for yourself & your kids. Cause if one of your little monsters slap me on my behind, I'm going to slap them back, right across the face out cold! If you can't teach them manners, either I or someone else will do so the hard way.

And if you're not responsible enough to conduct your own life in such a way that it doesnt' take everyone in your immediate circle down with you, do the world a favor & DON'T HAVE ANY KIDS! We don't need anymore irresponsible people in the world we have enough already.

There is no need to worry if you are a responsible mature adult, because you will have thought about all of these things already & taken care of them & not left them for someone else to take care of.

[ND13]

Damn Cathy, that's the most passionate post I've seen from you. Something must have touched a nerve.

[madmax]

I hate cell phones. I hate TV. I like the internet. I like toys. I like working smart and not hard. Long is OK. Overall, I guess I could live out in the middle of nowhere with a phone line, indoor plumbing and a wood stove. Oh yea, and a high class audio shop and a mall close by.
madmax

[cfrizz]

Yes Noel. This is a very touchy subject for me cause some of it I'm living with right now but also I have seen too many people get taken down through no fault of their own because of other peoples selfishness.

And since reading some other peoples replies, shows that same disregard for others around them, I kinda went off!

[ND13]

Yes Noel. This is a very touchy subject for me cause some of it I'm living with right now but also I have seen too many people get taken down through no fault of their own because of other peoples selfishness.

And since reading some other peoples replies, shows that same disregard for others around them, I kinda went off!

Understandable. Seeing that I don't think I was one of "them", I hope ;) , carry on. :D

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

People of the past made the future. And the people of the present make tommorow.

We made life as it is today and we will make tommorow as we see fit.

We can compare the past to the present all we want, but we always have to remember that we change the future. If you don't like how it is currently, get to work - it seems it only takes a few offended people to change the world.

[cfrizz]

Understandable. Seeing that I don't think I was one of "them", I hope ;) , carry on. :D

Nope you weren't one of them. I like how you view life, your kids, & your responsibilities! :D

[neomagus00]

maybe i can offer a slightly different perspective, as a teenager just beginning to truly move into life on my own...

i think that what has been said here about parents not being parents is generally correct; i've seen many a friend say 'hey mom, i'm going out, i'll be back at midnight'... if i _told_ my mom i was going somewhere, i'd be cleaning the garage for the next three days... if i asked her, though, generally the answer was 'no problem'...

my parents have also tried to teach me to be fiscally responsible... that is, save as much as you can, because you just never know... and i know that they both lived this, that they had everything in their lives taken away without warning and had to build it all back from scratch... today my dad owns his own business and my mom's the CIO of a major national bank... i'll admit that i'm used to having what i need and then some; i drive a nicer car than most, i live in a newer house than most, i sit on a leather couch and watch a bigger tv than most people do; the difference between me and most kids my age is that i know what it takes to get there...

cfrizz - i'm totally with you, if i saw some kid smack a teacher's ass, i'd have something to say about it... again, i was raised to stand up for what you believe in, whatever that may be... one of the core values i try to live by is embodied in the phrase, "grant me the wisdom to accept the things i cannot change, courage to change the things i can, and the wisdom to know the difference"... and i think that as a country, we expect the other people to do the work for us...

as far as tv goes, has anyone watched saturday morning cartoons recently? when i was growing up (a whole ten years ago), tom and jerry was freaking hilarious... now, there is quite literally no show that doesn't revolve around fighting and violence (with the possible exception of SpongeBob, but even that show features a strangely large number of explosions)... on the other hand, i'm a big fan of Law & Order, and its sister show L&O:Special Victims Unit... i enjoy watching the problem-solving process unfold, and the scary part is that their shows are taken straight from reality, which kind of makes you sit up and pay attention...

the news is the same way... the majority of the population doesn't give a rat's ass that 6000 healthy babies were born today in this country, they want to hear about the one iraqi baby that crawled over a landmine... why was the OJ case such a HUGE deal? i have recollections of my neighbor at the time leaving work early just to watch the case on TV...

with all that said, i think i have to disagree with sid... all it takes is a few offended people to make the news, it takes a LOT more to change anything, and people are too lazy for that... they're too lazy to get rid of the laziness, and so the cycle continues... i think that all we can do is lead our lives the way we want to lead them, and hope that we can serve as a leader for other people to follow...

[Pablo]

As said before, The Grass is Always Greener. I like all the stuff I have. I only work as hard as I do so I can get the stuff I like. I make more than enough to live, so now I get stuff (although I do hate my cell phone, but keep it in case of emergancy). I'm a good person, help others when I can and give money to those who need. My wife no longer works and spends the day with the kids (also takes other's kids when they need). I don't let my kids get away with any of the crap mentioned here (but I know there are to many that do). And now that my youngest is starting school (I have a 13yr & 5yr old), my wife will be spending her days reading to the kids and helping those that need it most (only because she likes to). Sure there may be to much violence and sex on tv and video games, but Ill put up with that and control what my kids watch to have the option of 300 channels and 3 gaming consoles. I can see nothing from the past that I would prefer than the way the world is now (except for maybe a new '57 Nomad that I would have put in the garage for 48 years).

One of the reasons people think the world is so much worse now than ever before is because they hear about that kind of thing constantly. Between the endless 24 hour news stations, tons of news papers, an AM dial that's all talk and the internet, we are a hundred times more informed than ever before (and you can't hide bad news these days).

So give me my hot tub on a snowy winters night, with the outdoor stereo playing my favorite tune, the kids in bed and a naked wife next to me any day.

But hey, if you've had enough of now-a-days, then pack up some stuff, find a nice quite place away from it all, grow a few of the essentials and enjoy life to the fullest. (leave the cell behind if you like, but it comes in handy during an emergency).

Remember, it's America, we can do pretty much what we like.

[Vr3MxStyler2k3]

I agree with you that it takes alot of people to make a POSITIVE change...

But, lord help we have a complaint about religion, "child abuse", child labor - it dosnt take much to get things down the crapper.

Whoever thought of making kids wait till they are 16 to work in an established business? I started working when I was 12 years old, around POWER TOOLS, operating a nail gun, standing up walls, helping crane operates control truces. I mean... why are 18 year old+ limited to doing this kind of work? I kept up, if not surpassed some of these older folks. The fact that the past generations have limited kids in responsibility, and given them a free ride until 16 only increases what some folks in this thread have complained about so far.

Not parenting your kids? Whos fault is that? I mean yeah, the parents should discipline, but it takes a lil bit of force to make kids listen, nothing is going to make me listen by someone screaming at me, or telling me to go to my room (looks around room...). It wouldnt bother me to be spanked for a reason, as I probally wouldnt want to repeat the mistake again. I believe in disciplining kids, and I can't believe some bone head made simple discipline child abuse. That is completely retarded.

I mean, it took very few people to make these changes... a few complaints, a few offended - it was all taken away. Kids are not bad because they are kids, they are bad because we were brought up to think we have choices and we don't. We are kids, we live under the thumb of our parents, we shouldnt be pushing our parents around and my kids wont do it either.

As for people not being responsible? Now... being quite itentive in my last history class, I remember alot of "Panics of xxxx" involving backruptcy, stock market, people investing their money in things and losing - it dosnt seem like a new concept. People in general are fairly irresponsible don't you think. Just look around at our world today eh...

[ND13]

Much better Sid.

[PhantomOG]

Society as a whole has become a bunch of whiners. Life is no worse than it was 100 years ago. Its only that technology and media have allowed everyone who has a problem with anything and everything to get their message out that life sucks and its everyone's fault but their own.

My personal philosophy about "happiness" is that you are only as happy as you allow yourself to be. Society today completely focuses on the negative things in life and completely blows them way out of proportion. The media promotes this image that unless you have the body of a fitness model, own 3 mansions and 20 cars that your life sucks. Well, if you are *stupid* enough to buy into that, go ahead and be misreable just like the rest of the herd.

We are a society of people who get fat on fast food and them blame McDonald's and the government for allowing it to happen. Nobody is forced to drive around in their Hummer's talking on cell phones and working 60 hours a week. People do that because they want to, and if they are unhappy its nobody's damn fault but their own. Don't blame the cell phone, don't blame the tv... go look in a mirror and you'll see the only thing separating you from happiness -- yourself.

[ND13]

I've given up on the pipe-dream of "happiness". I'll be fine with being "content". There's alot to be said for being "content". There's only sorrow in looking for happiness.
Very, very few are truly happy.

[neomagus00]

Nobody is forced to drive around in their Hummer's talking on cell phones and working 60 hours a week.
how far can someone truly expect to go working only 40 hours a week, though? at work, i sit next to a woman who is quite literally old enough to be my grandmother, and she's been sitting there doing her 40 hours a week for ages... maybe you're right, if she's happy doing that, more power to her, but i suppose it's my drive to work for more than the average that makes that kind of life sound dissatisfying... and without the drive for more that our ancestors had, where would this country be? would we have this board and these computers if our ancestors had been content to live under an oppressive monarch?

and no, i'm not trying to compare today to back then, but the ideas are the same...

[jdhdiggs]

I don't know, my wife and I seem to be doing allright at 40-45 hrs/wk. As MM said, work smarter, not harder.

It goes along with all the choices you make. Most people who are AT work 60+ hours a week might only WORK 30 of those.

[cfrizz]

I too am doing quite well on 40hrs a week. I simply use common sense & live within my means. If I want something & don't have the money for it just then, I will save for it & then get it. I will not run up my credit card & live in debt. I have $0.00 worth of debt.

I wanted a new cd player, been wanting one for over a yr, but I waited & paid cash for it using my tax refund.

It's about living smarter and having patience to get what you want.

And being content with what you finally do have, not constantly looking for more that might put you in over your head.

[Ron-P]

I work on average 7 to 8 hours a day but it's the damn commute that takes me over the top and into the 55-60 hour work week.

[PhantomOG]

how far can someone truly expect to go working only 40 hours a week, though? at work, i sit next to a woman who is quite literally old enough to be my grandmother, and she's been sitting there doing her 40 hours a week for ages... maybe you're right, if she's happy doing that, more power to her, but i suppose it's my drive to work for more than the average that makes that kind of life sound dissatisfying... and without the drive for more that our ancestors had, where would this country be? would we have this board and these computers if our ancestors had been content to live under an oppressive monarch?

and no, i'm not trying to compare today to back then, but the ideas are the same...

I don't think overthrowing an oppressive monarch and the desire to "work for more than the average" are anywhere near the same.

Basic human desires are what make people strive for more in life. If you achieve your desires and goals in life and are unhappy when you get there, who is to blame? The objects of your desire? No... its yourself for either setting the wrong goals or for not allowing yourself to be happy.

Too many people go through life with blinders on and don't see the world for what it really is.

[reeltrouble1]

I will not run up my credit card & live in debt. I have $0.00 worth of debt.

Holy Crimeny!!!! I thought I remembered Frizz saying she's single. I'm old and married and fighting GG for Wendi anyway, but you single guys take note.

Well, it just seems material things mean less as I get older, maybe it is just being content, or maybe I have realized how much good luck in life I have had. I may be a bit crotchety at times but sure seem to smile alot now.

Still I do love my audio gear and my boat!!!

RT1

[ND13]

And being content with what you finally do have, not constantly looking for more that might put you in over your head.

Yep, being content is more than enough for me.

I have to work 60+ hours a week or the place will fall apart. I could work my normal hours of:
Mon-Fri-Sat= 8:30-6
Tuesday 8:30-1
Wed and Thur= 8:30-9
but it would just cost me more time and $$$ in the long run. So if I can leave work within a couple of hours of my reg schedule< I'm lucky. I don't even add in the 1 1/2 to 2 hours of commuting per day.

[PhantomOG]

there is almost a bad connotation with the word "content" as if the person who is content is lazy or undriven. that is completely untrue.

*Neccesity* is the mother of invention, not keeping up with the Joneses. Society and technology would still advance just fine, and probably better, if people learned to be "content".

It's not getting what you want, it's wanting what you've got.

The distinction between "want" and "need" is very important.

[Early B.]

I've given up on the pipe-dream of "happiness". I'll be fine with being "content". There's alot to be said for being "content". There's only sorrow in looking for happiness.
Very, very few are truly happy.

One of the biggest problems in the world is that people are looking for happiness. Happiness cannot be found in material objects, experiences or situations. Happiness can only be cultivated from within. The key to life is to be happy in spite of whatever challenges confront you.

[PhantomOG]

One of the biggest problems in the world is that people are looking for happiness. Happiness cannot be found in material objects, experiences or situations. Happiness can only be cultivated from within. The key to life is to be happy in spite of whatever challenges confront you.

my feelings exactly.

[neomagus00]

why are materialism and happiness mutually exclusive? i'm truly, honestly happy being where i am in life today, but that doesn't mean i couldn't enjoy it more if i had a better tv, or my car's stage-2, or a dozen other things i'd like... if i can't get them, so be it, they're just toys, but it isn't wrong to want them and to work for them...

[CrBoy]

materialism and happiness are NOT mutually exclusive, however when you want to buy something really bad you have to work extra hours, which causes more stress and takes away you peace of mind... obviously this doesn't apply to every scenario...

[PhantomOG]

why are materialism and happiness mutually exclusive? i'm truly, honestly happy being where i am in life today, but that doesn't mean i couldn't enjoy it more if i had a better tv, or my car's stage-2, or a dozen other things i'd like... if i can't get them, so be it, they're just toys, but it isn't wrong to want them and to work for them...

i don't think they are exclusive. i only think it is wrong to blame directly the material goods for people's unhappiness.

being content doesn't mean not wanting more. it merely means those desires don't stand in the way of your happiness.

[ND13]

why are materialism and happiness mutually exclusive? i'm truly, honestly happy being where i am in life today, but that doesn't mean i couldn't enjoy it more if i had a better tv, or my car's stage-2, or a dozen other things i'd like... if i can't get them, so be it, they're just toys, but it isn't wrong to want them and to work for them...

Then you are content.