Why no new LSi line? [Archive]

jim_r

08-19-2005, 06:07 AM

Does anyone have any information or theories as to why Polk has not put out a v.2 of the LSi line? It's been about 4 or 5 years since v.1 came out. Do you think Polk has decided to focus it's energy on mass-market and custom-installation products as opposed to more high-end products? Maybe Polk has decided that there is more money to be made going after Bose customers instead of B&W customers. What do you Polk experts think about this?

mantis

08-19-2005, 07:49 AM

In my opnion ,

speakers don't need NEW ONES all the time. Unlike receivers that et the new technologies, speakers can pretty much stand timeless.

The lsi series speakers are fantastic the way they are with the exception of offering more color choices like Maple side panels or full wood cabnets finishes. Other then that I see no reason to upgrade anything.

High end speakers are not what the general public want. they want the Bose type things.
Whats really going on in the market is custom install. These products sell more then anything else. Outdor speakers and inwalls are crazy hot. Sound bars and theater in a box products.

Floor standing speakers don't go out the door like a few years ago. Most people don't want all that in there living space. One reason why Plasma is so hot and a fast growing seller. Plasma tv's sell more and more each day. We install just in our area like 2 to 3 per day. thats a ton of plasma going out the door. Floor standing speakers and plasma don't really mix well. It goes against what most people are looking for. Inwall speakers are what most people buy with a plasma.

Personally I like the floor standing high end speakers myself with a plasma , but people like me and a small group. This kind of thing has been happening for years. It started with micro style speakers and went to inwall. Bose also started alot of it with there cube speakers years ago.

Dan

unbridled_id

08-19-2005, 10:13 AM

A polk rep I spoke with said they will be upgraded/replaced in 2007. He mentioned the possibility of 6.5" woofers and said that the vifa ring tweeter will stay. But that is what was said awhile ago and things do change...

audiobliss

08-19-2005, 10:15 AM

Yep. It unfortunately appears that the group who would rather have a floorstander versus something more 'convenient', more radiating surface area than 'technology' to achieve the 'same' effect, and high-quality high-end instead of what the market as a whole perceives to be high-end, is fast shrinking. I hope it doesn't totally die.

McLoki

08-19-2005, 10:22 AM

My vote for the new LSi line would be to make them all in gloss black for about $50-$100/pair less than they do now, and offer about 6 different side panels that can be purchased separately to put on them. (for $40 - $75 / pair)

This would allow them to offer more wood styles (full side LSi15) as well as colors (birtch, black, cherry, mahogany, etc.), lower manufacturing and stocking costs, and offer a speaker that you can change to fit the decor in your room. (increasing the all important WAF factor.)

Just a thought.

Michael

audiobliss

08-19-2005, 10:36 AM

That would be an awesome idea.

EDIT No, wait; it is an awesome idea. Would be awesome if they did that.

dantfmly

08-19-2005, 01:46 PM

jdhdiggs

08-19-2005, 01:51 PM

dantfmly

08-19-2005, 01:54 PM

well how about including just a few colrs with the actual speakers, instead of being sold seperatly

Vr3MxStyler2k3

08-19-2005, 02:34 PM

unbridled_id

08-19-2005, 02:39 PM

I don't think the replacement lsi's will have the downward firing port, I believe it will be like the port PP+ in the tower rti's. I also believe that instead of the sidepanels going half way up making that part of the enclosure an inch and a half just make the whole side wood veneer and make it an inch thick. Then the obvious improvements in technology which could be implemented in the crossover, and viola the new lsi !!!

Vr3MxStyler2k3

08-19-2005, 02:49 PM

So let me get this straight...

You want to see three things done to the LSi line...

1) A Power Port Plus added - can you actually hear the difference between the Power Port and Power Port Plus? I know I can't... something tells me this won't add to the performance, it will just get rid of the base of the speaker.

2) Full, wood side panels (Cosmetic upgrade)

3) Crossover upgrades to already awesome crossovers. What type of upgrades, "obvious improvements" have been discovered in crossover design in the last few years? Polk did a fairly good job on the LSi crossovers I thought.

So, you want 3 things done to the LSi line that would have almost little to no improvement to the entire speaker. You wouldn't want new, beefier subs added, better amps to the LSi25 - you wouldn't want better tweeters or midbasses. You wouldn't want any new technology.

Man I am confused... You will have to explain more on how those 3 changes would warrant a new line and even be worthy of replacing the old line if someone already owns it. Something tells me if all Polk can say is different is the side panels, slight crossover improvements and a PP+... (which already sounds kind of funny ;))...

Interesting...

jdhdiggs

08-19-2005, 03:09 PM

Well Sid I agree with you, no changes really needed for now, but I'll try to lay some possibles:

I would want a 12" long throw (passive, no onboard amps) woofer on the 25, 10" on the 15. An added "blue" woofer on the 25 as well. Perhaps beef up the VC on on the mids and add a longer throw to assist the bass and power handling in some of the bookshelfs.

You could add a ribbon tweet for say 10 kHz + as well just to get too funky...

McLoki

08-19-2005, 04:06 PM

Too many sku's!!! The supply chain complexity would double, as would the manufacturing. Wood products can not be made "Just in time" so they need to be stocked somewhere. Circuit City and the like won't be stocking them in store so Polk will be footing the bill. Cool idea but implementation would be very difficult.

Shouldn't be that hard. Right now Polk has a limited supply chain for the LSi speakers anyway. (Not sold at Circut City) and they have to carry 2 lines of every speaker. (Black and Cherry) Now they could carry one line since all speakers are the same (reducing inventory on expensive speakers) and use about 1/2 the space they saved by not carrying every color speaker by carrying 2 of each (or the most popular) side panel color. Polk could also offer them for sale on their website (maybe even offer an "unfinished" look that you can stain yourself to get any color match you desire.)

I am loving the idea. What is the big deal with the additional SKU's? most places that carry the LSi's dont carry the bottom of the polk line so its not adding that much. Figure for LSI 25, 15, 9, 7 heck throw in the C while you are at it 5 different panel colors - that adds 25 sku's total. If they were to stock the most popular colors. (say cherry and black) and have one of each color on a different LSI speaker for demo (for order purposes) they would'nt have to deal with that much added cost. (probably less cost and space than currently stocking 4 of each speaker, in each color)

I think it is a pretty cool idea considering many people (mostly guys) would like decent floorstanders for a 2 channel or HT system but it gets overthrown by the other half due to not matching the rest of the room. This wouldn't overcome all issues, but may sell more speakers and introduce an easily sustainable aftermarket product of side panels for your speakers.

Michael

Vr3MxStyler2k3

08-19-2005, 05:19 PM

I for one would like to see a speaker featuring no subwoofer in the 4,000 range :)

McLoki

08-19-2005, 05:55 PM

I for one would like to see a speaker featuring no subwoofer in the 4,000 range :)

Yea, they could make some sort of a modified line array with lets say 4-8 of their 5.25" woofers lined in 2 rows with 2-4 of the vifa tweeters between them. Since it is a line array formation, they could probably get away with a passive radiator rather than an actual large woofer....

Now if they could just come up with some way to connect them to enhance the stereo effect............

I bet there would be at least 5 people in the nation willing to purchase them at full price and another 10 after that purchasing the closeouts. Once discontinued, they will have a huge following and have hundreds of people clamoring to get them and wishing they would come back....

Michael :D

jim_r

08-19-2005, 05:55 PM

I have yet to understand why people want replacements for lines that are not broken. How much do you honestly think Polk can improve on the LSi line that they couldn't do a few years before...

Considering that I like the old RTi line (I have RTi70/CSi40/RT35) better than the current line, I can see your point on this. If the new line of LSi's has "improvements" like the new line of RTi's, then I'll take the old line.

I don't think the replacement lsi's will have the downward firing port, I believe it will be like the port PP+ in the tower rti's...

Oh no! That would be a downgrade, as far as I'm concerned. I really like the downward-firing port on my RTi70's. I read in a review where it helps with imaging, which is one of the RTi70's strong points, IMO. I would not be surprised if the main reason for using the more conventional front-firing ports on the new RTi's was simply to appeal to the mass-market crowd. I think that crowd probably didn't know what to make of the downward-firing port since it is different than most mass-marketed speakers. And what about those offset grills and plastic-spike bases on the new RTi's. I would never buy speakers with grills that let dust in and that do not have real spikes that can penetrate carpet. Then there's also the added brightness of the new RTi's, or at least that's how they sound to me at CC. Of course, I know that CC is not the best place to demo. So maybe they are not be that bright in a typical home setup. BUT, brightness is one of the oldest tricks in the book to get an inexpensive speaker to sound like it's more detailed than it is. So this could be an intentional design to appeal to the mass-market crowd, which probably does not know the difference between brightness and real detail. But, I'm just speculating here. Sorry for the rant. It just seems to me like each new Polk line is less musical than the one it replaces, or at least that's how it's been for the Rti line IMO. I just hope that trend is not repeated in the LSi line. I was hoping to consider them in my next upgrade...

jim_r

08-19-2005, 06:10 PM

Yea, they could make some sort of a modified line array with lets say 4-8 of their 5.25" woofers lined in 2 rows with 2-4 of the vifa tweeters between them. Since it is a line array formation, they could probably get away with a passive radiator rather than an actual large woofer....

Now if they could just come up with some way to connect them to enhance the stereo effect............

I bet there would be at least 5 people in the nation willing to purchase them at full price and another 10 after that purchasing the closeouts. Once discontinued, they will have a huge following and have hundreds of people clamoring to get them and wishing they would come back....

LOL. Yes, that's right. :D

BTW, has anyone else noticed that there always seems to be a pair of SDA's on Audiogon for sale lately? Have the surrounds on their drivers reached their typical lifetime and the owner's are trying to dump them before they completely fall apart or something? ;)

F1nut

08-19-2005, 06:45 PM

BUT, brightness is one of the oldest tricks in the book to get an inexpensive speaker to sound like it's more detailed than it is. So this could be an intentional design to appeal to the mass-market crowd, which probably does not know the difference between brightness and real detail. But, I'm just speculating here. Sorry for the rant. It just seems to me like each new Polk line is less musical than the one it replaces...

BINGO.....on all accounts. It's been downhill ever since they stopped making the SDA's and switched their focus to HT.

BTW, No worries with the SDA's, the rubber surrounds have plenty of life left in them. If one were to have a problem, Polk has replacement tweeters and drivers, no PR's though.

newsman

08-24-2005, 04:55 PM

LSi desperatly needs a better (bigger) center speaker.

jdhdiggs

08-24-2005, 05:06 PM

Shouldn't be that hard. Right now Polk has a limited supply chain for the LSi speakers anyway. (Not sold at Circut City) and they have to carry 2 lines of every speaker. (Black and Cherry) Now they could carry one line since all speakers are the same (reducing inventory on expensive speakers) and use about 1/2 the space they saved by not carrying every color speaker by carrying 2 of each (or the most popular) side panel color. Polk could also offer them for sale on their website (maybe even offer an "unfinished" look that you can stain yourself to get any color match you desire.)

I am loving the idea. What is the big deal with the additional SKU's?

It has nothing to do with tweeter, CC, etc..., It would punish the entire supply chain for Polk raising their costs. Something I wouldn't want to do to them. Right now it is very simple setup where they can pretty much run cross-dock operations (with maybe a few warehouses) across the US at minimal cost. This added load would require a couple full DC's around the country- Which would run in the millions of dollars to operate.

At the CC: You don't think that now they would also have to stock all of the various sides in all of the various colors for all of the various models? As a customer, you would demand that. So now instead of 8 speakers to stock, you stock 4 speakers and 24 + optional wood panels (six colors, 1 size per speak). Now lets say you offer 2 different cuts for the bookshelf and 3 for the towers: 4 speakers, 60 skus for the sides. Now you are at 8x the difficulty of current operations.

I understand about the ordering online, but ask Rocket, SVS, axiom, etc... about their difficulties marketing. Customers want to see and touch what they buy, not order and hope.

McLoki

08-24-2005, 05:17 PM

PolknPepsi

08-24-2005, 05:32 PM

Different side panel ideas.
High end speaker @ 4k.
Bigger/better center channel speakers.

Do you guys suppose Polk is listening to these great ideas?

Zero

08-24-2005, 05:51 PM

Input from their customers is certainly appreciated and can help in the decision making process. The guys at Polk are watching.

I have my quip's with the speaker line, but ignoring that, Polk has really delievered a speaker that fit their goal splendidly. It is robust, damn near bullet proof and can indeed take lots of abuse while sounding pretty good to boost. There is room for improvement, but for the most part - it works.

I'd love to see the psw808 finally see the light, and they would too. I would LOVE to see Polk release an actual 'sub' woofer. A larger center channel speaker would be nice for those looking to fill some big and mighty rooms, although the center out now does an admirable job in most circumstances.

If there is one weakness of the entire line, it is the very limited 'sweet spot'. It would be wonderful for the next implementation to sport a very wide off axis response that could treat most listeners in the room to the same experience, instead of the person dead center. For a speaker designed for multi channel formats and theater applications in a home, this is one weakness that has turned away quite a few customers.

Other then that, there is not much to pick apart. Perhaps by then the process of production and drivers will be cheaper and the price-point of the LSi series could be lowered a bit.

What I would love to see is an actual line built for serious stereo - but I will save that one for another day.

jdhdiggs

08-24-2005, 05:56 PM

I understand your point, but at the local american store (only local place that sells the LSi line) they only stock one color (that you can see, you can purchase either) and no actual speakers that you can purchase that day. They must ship them from their warehouse and you wait for them to come in.

I just thought it would be a similar thing with the sides and was thinking more of warehouse space than retail space.

Michael

Uggg, your local store sucks... Usually they have all four speakers in a mix of colors so you can at least get a guess as to what it would look like. Is it a cool ide? Hell yeah! Just not that feasible from an infrastructure side.

mantis

08-24-2005, 09:17 PM

I'm suprised to read about all the unhappy people with the LSI center channel. I believe it maybe the case of inproper setup and using not enough quality amps to drive it. I drove mine with B&K and love it. It blended perfectly with the mains and It never stuck out or called attention to itself. I had it on top of one tv and under inside my stand with another tv. No experience with bad sound or not enough of it, timbre and anything.
Again I believe it's setup or quality of amps driving it.

My problems with Lsi was not enough colors , sloppy bass in the lsi15's ( but not bad) the bottom platform stripping the carpet spikes , which I believe was a built quality thing. The ability to fill the entire front end with wall to wall sound.
Imaging was dead on and the sound to price ratio is awesome. I got out of Lsi due to the desire to have better sounding speakers.
I think polk speaker center to fronts are one of the best in the bussiness. When properly calibrated , it's a full front 3 wall of sound. No drops or standouts at all , at least my system performed that way.

Dan

MacLeod

08-24-2005, 09:30 PM

For what its worth, the new Signature Referece car audio series Polk recently came out with is on par with some of the best speakers on the market. It can easily hang with $1200-1500 speakers! I dont know about them going downhill in the HA world but their lines in the CA community keep getting better and better.

Toxis

08-25-2005, 12:49 AM

LSi desperatly needs a better (bigger) center speaker.
my LSiC is perfect for my LSi9's.

If it ain't broke...

fireshoes

08-25-2005, 01:47 AM

Uggg, your local store sucks... Usually they have all four speakers in a mix of colors so you can at least get a guess as to what it would look like. Is it a cool ide? Hell yeah! Just not that feasible from an infrastructure side.

I work at American in St. Louis. We 'sometimes' have the LSi's in the store warehouse, but usually they are at our distribution center so you have to wait a day or so. That is more a reflection of how many we sell more than anything. It seems average joe is all about the cutsie 'ittle speakers. :( We also don't stock the LSi7's or 25's. The thing that frustrates me the most is not having the cherry finish, which I think would lead to more sales. When the LSi's first came out, we did stock the cherry finish though, so apparently the numbers didn't warrant having it when the new finish came out.

aaharvel

08-25-2005, 12:48 PM

From what I've heard, imo the LSI's are perfect, especially at their pricepoint. I continue to be amazed with the 7's.

Now all they need to do is revamp their subwoofer line.

tdeluce

08-25-2005, 02:12 PM

I really like the Polk LSi series. Wouldn't mind
a set of Towers and Center that sported 6.5 in.
drivers in the same configuration and the same
tweeters as the current models.

Hope they look identical to the current series...

McLoki

08-25-2005, 03:50 PM

Wouldn't mind a set of Towers and Center that sported 6.5 in. drivers in the same configuration and the same tweeters as the current models.

As a general question what benefit do you all hope to get from a 6.5" driver over the current 5.25" one? I get pretty awesome (for the size) SPL and impact from my 4 LSi7's, LSiC, and SVS.

I have a big amp, but am really only pushing 60 watts or so at reference level. I have a huge room to fill with sound, but they do a great job.

Are you looking for deeper bass? More efficient? More power-handling? If yes, what levels do you hope to hit? I am very impressed with the LSi's and for improvements look more to cosmetics than sound changes. (ok, SDA addition would be sweet)

To just say I want a bigger woofer does not make much sense to me. What are you saying you really want?

Michael

tdeluce

08-25-2005, 09:34 PM

As a general question what benefit do you all hope to get from a 6.5" driver over the current 5.25" one? I get pretty awesome (for the size) SPL and impact from my 4 LSi7's, LSiC, and SVS.

I have a big amp, but am really only pushing 60 watts or so at reference level. I have a huge room to fill with sound, but they do a great job.

Are you looking for deeper bass? More efficient? More power-handling? If yes, what levels do you hope to hit? I am very impressed with the LSi's and for improvements look more to cosmetics than sound changes. (ok, SDA addition would be sweet)

To just say I want a bigger woofer does not make much sense to me. What are you saying you really want?

Michael

Hello Michael,

For one the drivers would precisely match the drivers
in my LC265i in-ceilings and for another, all else being
equal, a larger driver will handle more power with
less distortion.

The LSi15 have an 8 in. woofer and I am fine with it.
I cut it off at 80 Hz and use a 1250 Watt RMS 15in.
Velodyne subwoofer which works out great.

Joey_V

08-28-2005, 05:05 AM

Did you really have to tell us the exact wattage of the sub and that it is RMS and that it is 15"?

You could've just told us it was a Velodyne. That's good enough info.

Vr3MxStyler2k3

08-28-2005, 10:34 AM

A 6.5" midbass has a sound that most 5.25" drivers cant replicate.

It is hard to explain but in this day and age I don't really think a 5.25" driver is any more accurate than a 6.5". That is, when they are of similar quality.

But I don't think you should be giving the LSi line a 6.5" midbass unless you are giving it to the line to help it have cleaner, but still authorative bass. It has alot of bass as is, maybe to much...

kmartin971

01-12-2006, 12:51 AM

I would like to see more options on center channels for the LSi line.

Joey_V

01-12-2006, 01:09 AM

I would like to see more options on center channels for the LSi line.

That would be a good idea.

Airplay355

01-12-2006, 01:23 AM

I would like the new lsi's to make pizza for you. My Lsi7's just can't get the job done.

StopherJJ1980

01-12-2006, 01:46 AM

As far as the interchangable sides I think many people agree it is a GREAT idea. As far as the bickering about supply chain, if it IS a problem then everyone has a computer now. Just make them available online, one source, Im sure tons of people would love that.

Other than that, I cant believe I read this whole thread and no one has mentioned, MAKE A TRULY FULL RANGE SPEAKER THAT CAN HIT 20Hz ! Even in their sub line, Polk seems to be afraid of 20Hz barrier like its gonna jump out and bite em if they get too close.

tdeluce

01-12-2006, 02:32 AM

I would like to see more options on center channels for the LSi line.

I am with you. In my opinion, the LSiC is the weakest link in my chain...

goingganzo

01-12-2006, 10:09 AM

yeah they should look at the new long throw 6.5. i am looking at getting a speaker with a single 6.5 long throw speaker that is good down to 35 hz and a vifa ring radient tweater

SKsolutions

01-13-2006, 10:49 PM

I agree with some of the above. Ver 2-ing LSiC because it is less capable or "like-capable" with the LSi9, and it should be more capable. I don't know that the MMass of the speaker would work with the increse to 6.5's (same aerated poly), but it's a thought. I loved the LSi7's for their female vocals, but bought the 9's because I wanted a little more impact.

In defense of the rest of the LSi line:
I am very surprised to get excited about sound after so long away. Polk did this for me in the form of an affordable sweet sounding speaker. The sweet spot is narrower than I'd like, and they want to live in the middle of the room, true. But, when I play something really dynamic or musical, I just smile. . . and occasionally drool. I can't believe the LSi9's sound so Musical.
Any speaker is a laundry list of compromises, and I'm happy with the end result at even twice the price. I don't see what Ver2'ing the line would do. Keep pumping them out, renew the production contracts, and take the increased margin and dump it into R&D and esoteric protoyping. I know these speaker don't work for me on paper, but what a great surprise. Maybe it's a trend?