Deisel pick-up or gas

[Skynut]

All right here it is.

Wifey and I need to get a bigger truck to deal with the kids and the dog. My Dakota does not have enough room in the back for both kids.
We are looking into a Ford F-250 or a GMC 2500 and need to decide what to get.

My question is about Deisel mileage.
Do any of you drive Deisel pickup's and what kind of mileage do you get?

We might just get the HD 1500 from GMC with the 6.0 gas motor but are really thinking about the 3/4 tons for eventual towing of whatever.

We plan to have the truck for 5 to 10 years and will probably put 200,000 miles on it before we can afford to replace it.

Thanks.

[okiepolkie]

I like the Ford F250 turbo deisels for power, longevity, and resale value. They don't get that much better milage than regular gas(maybe 1-2 mpg more at the most), but I'd still go with a deisel over a gas burner right now.

Zach

[Ron-P]

I drove a Ford F150 4x4 for a couple of years (gas) and put 56,000 on it with no problems at all so I'd vote Ford/gas.

[faster100]

Just wondering, But why if you want a vehicle for the family do you want a huge pickup truck? Those things are hugely expensive compared to an Suv that could carry the dog in back and tow stuff.. Those are some big trucks and diesol are a bit more on the maintanance side long term..

[Skynut]

I have allways had a truck, I like the ability to move thinga that will not fit in an SUV.
Furniture, Motorcycles, quads, things like that.
The wife and I really like the feature on the GMC but the Ford is currently less expensive.
We may go with 4 wheel drive diesel but may go 2 wheel drive gas.

We are most likely going to order it on Friday and we may not know what we will get until then.

[AsSiMiLaTeD]

So how do I vote for a GMC with a deisel engine?

You poll's a little effed up, you should have something more like:

1 - GMC with deisel
2 - GMC with gas
3 - Ford with deisel
4 - Ford with gas

my vote would be for number 1 out of your choices, but I personally wouldn't opt for a truck...

[amulford]

I'd go with a Ford Diesel. You can't beat the longevity of the Ford Diesels. Only thing I've seen come remotely close is the Ford I-6 300, but you only got that w/ the 1/2 T.

I've seen the diesels go for 300,000 plus on a regular basis.

[hoosier21]

GMC baby

[ND13]

Now, this is my type of question. Let's see, if your only choices are the GMC or Ford, then you have to go Powerstroke. It's head and shoulders above the Duramax, which is a vast improvement over GM diesel it replaced but still no match for the Powerstroke.

Now with all that being said,, my personal choice would be the Ram 2500 with the Cummins(610 lb/ft) with a six-speed. And no, even though I work for a Dodge lot, I'm not being biased. I take any recommendations I give about autos, very seriously and would not let where I work and what I sell influence that recommendation.

The powerstroke is rated for about 250k miles before any major maintanance issues and the Cummins is rated for 400k.

I'm sure that JStas can go even further, though I think he's a Ford fan ;) :D .

[reeltrouble1]

Peterbuilt, why fool around. :D


RT1

[faster100]

even if your carrying stuff, quads or what not.. for just around town i'll assume for the most part i think a huge diesol truck is overkill.. if you have a business or pull alot of weight on a regular basis ok.. I vote ford then for a truck and gas...

[Willow]

I'd vote neither truck, don't like Ford or GM.

As per above, get an SUV or a minivan, hey even the new mazda 5, can't tow much, but it'll get the family around on the cheap

[Skynut]

I do not believe this, I have typed 3 replies and my computer freezes everytime I hit submit.
I am getting pissed off.

[Skynut]

Every time I have tried to quote it froze, this time I used the quick reply.

[Skynut]

You poll's a little effed up, you should have something more like:

1 - GMC with deisel
2 - GMC with gas
3 - Ford with deisel
4 - Ford with gas


Polkmaniac I wish I had thought of that but now I can not figure out how to change it.

[audiobliss]

I don't think you can change polls.

I'm a Chevy man, and I really like the way the GMC 2500 looks; nice, classy looking truck. The Duramax is also quite an engine. Much better than the previous diesel that GM was putting in its trucks. I'm not sure about how it compares to the PowerStroke and Cummins. Out of the three, I'd say Cummins hands down. However, between the PowerStroke and the Duramax, I'm not real sure. You can't just look at how much torque it makes. Look at where it makes that torque.

The Duramax makes 300hp at 3100rpm and 520lb-ft torque at 1800rpm. That's low!!
The 6.0 PowerStroke makes 325 at 3300rpm and 570 at 2000. Hmm. That's almost as low.

Guess it's a toss-up!
Good luck!


I came across this page; you might find it useful:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/superduty/compare/details/?vehicles=17011|17841|17937|15839

[thehaens@cox.net]

Here is a diesel truck (http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/stories/international/page1.html) that according to the manufacturer has the first scheduled major maint. at 500K miles...

sdh

[faster100]

That may just be what he's looking for :D

[Skynut]

Here is a diesel truck (http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/stories/international/page1.html) that according to the manufacturer has the first scheduled major maint. at 500K miles...

sdh


I was hoping for something a little bigger :eek:
That thing is huge and it has a stepside bed ;)
Perfect for lowering and putting airbags on. :D

[thehaens@cox.net]

And all your neighbors will either envy you, or think you are overly compensating for something.............. :D

[PhantomOG]

I'd vote neither truck, don't like Ford or GM.

As per above, get an SUV or a minivan, hey even the new mazda 5, can't tow much, but it'll get the family around on the cheap

don't know about his case in particular but no one seems to care about whether it is practical or not to own a huge truck. practically every other guy here in Texas feels inadequate unless he's driving a *HUGE* truck, regardless of whether or not he ever uses the bed or excessive engine.

i think its stupid, but hey, its a free country. as long as they are not the one's bitching about how expensive gas/diesel is.

[Sami]

practically every other guy here in Texas feels inadequate unless he's driving a *HUGE* truck, regardless of whether or not he ever uses the bed or excessive engine.
I think that only applies to Texans, not everyone who lives in Texas. A truck would be nice as a second or third vehicle but I couldn't imagine myself driving one every day. Too uncomfortable for me and they offer no driving enjoyment.

[audiobliss]

I must admit, there's just something about big trucks. A black and gold two-tone extended cab GMC 2500 with the Duramax. Mmm. I like that.

Red four-door 2003 or newer (so it has the turn signals in the mirrors) F-250 with the PowerStroke. Mmm. I like that, too.

Now, a white four door dually Dodge 2500 with the Cummins. That is something to be hold.


Diesels are somehow almost 'mesmerizing' for me. Something about the different power delivery, that amount of immediate torque....there's just nothing else like it....:D

[audiobliss]

they offer no driving enjoyment.

That is sooo an opinion! LOL

No driving enjoyment? Man, it's enjoyment enough when I get to hear a Dodge Cummins idling at the light (actually listened to one yesterday on the way home from work), much less driving something like that! lol

[bvette94]

Do you know what i like best about this poll is he is looking at American built trucks. I have had 3 new Ford trucks and a ford suv and have never had a problem with any of them. I say ford gas truck. imo the diesels are too loud for everyday driving.

[audiobliss]

Duramax isn't loud.

Last week sometime I was riding down I-40 and there was this big white four-door dually Chevy diesel pulling a long enclosed trailer behind me. I obviously wasn't going fast enough to suit him so he passed me in the left-hand lane. Wait, he didn't pass me. He flew by me. He just launched right past me. And I couldn't even hear the Duramax.

[Sami]

That is sooo an opinion! LOL

Maybe that "for me" should have been at the end of the statement... :)

No driving enjoyment? Man, it's enjoyment enough when I get to hear a Dodge Cummins idling at the light (actually listened to one yesterday on the way home from work), much less driving something like that! lol

Hmmm, my car idles at over 100db so I have no idea what you're talking about. :cool:

[audiobliss]

ROFL

No, I don't guess you do. But hey, if I were driving around in a Skyline GT-R, I, all of a sudden, wouldn't much care about those diesels, anyways. lol

[PhantomOG]

I think that only applies to Texans, not everyone who lives in Texas. A truck would be nice as a second or third vehicle but I couldn't imagine myself driving one every day. Too uncomfortable for me and they offer no driving enjoyment.

It just pisses me off when I see some dumbass guy (or woman) taking 20 minutes to park their big ass dually in the front of the Walmart parking lot. the spots are not big enough and yet they drive them around as if they think they are driving a compact car. why the hell can't the park in the back instead of dinging the crap out of cars and taking up multiple spots in the front? :mad:

also, why is that these same guys who drive the huge trucks for no practical purpose are also the ones who feel that they *HAVE* to back their truck in every time they park? its takes them like twice as long (much more if they can't drive).

most nights when I'm walking my dog around the apartment complex i watch this guy come home from his office job with his huge truck (which he never hauls anything, truck bed is immaculate) and it takes him like 20 tries to back his truck into his covered spot. its like he gets off on making things difficult for himself. I know he could pull in forwards and leave probably in one go but still he *has* to back it it. friggin idiot...

[Sami]

Speaking of Cummins Diesels, I had the pleasure to talk with one of Sisu Racing Team engineers. They took out over 1500hp (IIRC) in race trim on those babies back in the 90's. Cummins engineers where around 1200-1300hp at the time. These of course were race engines, not street engines.

http://www.jokkekallioracing.com/paukku.html

[ND13]

The new common-rail Cummins engines are very quiet in terms of diesels. Now the older 2002 and back were very loud. They also have a very flat torque curve with 85% of the 610 lb/ft of torque available at idle. Do the math. That's just stupid power. You gotta luv it. Plus the Cummins is by far the most efficient in terms of fuel economy. We get reports from customers all the time of up to 26 mpg out of a freakin dually. While that may not hold true with all of them, it's still something that we hear regularly at work. I'm sure that it was a 4x2 with 3:55s or 3:72s in the rear and the six speed, not the automatic 4x4s with 4:10s.

[Skynut]

This truck is an extra vehicle B.T.W. I have a pontiac to commute in and this is our weekend getaway or haul stuff truck.
The wife has a 4 door car she takes the kids everywhere in as long as the pooch is not going with her. Kinda hard to fit 4 people and our Rott. in a 4 door car.
SUV's are not my thing right now as I do haul stuff that just won't fit in an SUV. (ever try to fit a chest of drawers or a patio table and chairs in an SUV?)

Thanks for all the input, both good and bad.
It is looking like Diesel is winning out in preference and Ford in make.
Plus I really like to drive a truck, they feel so solid and safe. If I am involved in an accident chances are it will be with some little foreign car and they will loose.

[rskarvan]

I have a 2003 2500HD Duramax Diesel 4x4 extended cab with a 6-speed stick shift. The duramax diesel is manufactured by Isuzu. This engine is rated one of the ten best engines in the world by Wards Autoworld (leading auto-industry publication) in 2003. I regularly get 23 mpg. This diesel is very quiet (as diesel's go). I've driven a Cummins diesel and I was not at all impressed. As far as I'm concerned, when you go diesel, don't give up the V-8. I'm not all too familiar with the Ford - except that the diesel engine in a Ford is made by Navistar. Given the choice between Navistar vs. Isuzu engineering, I'd take Isuzu in the Diesel arena every time. Isuzu is well-known for their fuel effeciency and longevity. Duramax Diesel is a VERY WELL ENGINEERED WORLD-CLASS MOTOR. My only complaint is that it was an expensive option. You get what you pay for. Definitely, go diesel in a big pickup. The engine's will provide more power, more fuel economy, and they will go more miles. WIN, WIN, WIN.

[jcaut]

I happen to work with a guy with a 2003 GMC 2500 with a Duramax and the automatic, a guy with a Dodge 4x4 with the Cummins and a M/T (I think his is the year before the six-speed was available) with 4.10's, and another guy with a Ford SD with the Powerstroke and a six speed. They're all very proud of their trucks and talk about them alot.

The guy with the Dodge complains about his fuel mileage (and wishes he had the six-speed and DIDN'T have the 4.10's) but man, oh man will that thing PULL!

The Duramax is almost gas-motor quiet, and the GMC is super-nice, as far as equipment goes. He talks about how good his mileage is... He hauls stuff in the back a lot, but doesn't pull a trailer much. Uses it pretty lightly..

The one with the Ford always has a trailer behind his. He went to the Ford because he kept tearing the rear end out of his Chevrolet. He says his gets the same mileage loaded or unloaded, but that it's not a huge improvement (in fuel mileage) over his old (late 80's) Chevrolet diesel. ?

So... That's what little I know about them, from listening to other guys talk. For the use you describe, I think I'd vote GMC with the diesel, if your really need/want a truck that big.

Jason

[exalted512]

also, why is that these same guys who drive the huge trucks for no practical purpose are also the ones who feel that they *HAVE* to back their truck in every time they park? its takes them like twice as long (much more if they can't drive).


have you ever driven a full size truck? Its MUCH easier to back into a tight parking spot than it is to go straight in.

as far as gmc vs. ford, IMO their is no comparison. GMCs maintain value better than fords, dont believe me-look it up. When my dad was managing the local rural electrical companies he bought a whole new fleet of gmc's, fords, and dodges. all 3/4 tons, all gasoline, all 4x4. the gmc had a higher intial cost but over the course of 2.5 years, they were cheaper. they only use GMCs now.

the duramax is an incredible engine. extremely efficient, extremely quiet, extremely clean. it is EASILY on par with the power stroke. the cummins, IMO, is a better engine, but when paired with the rest of dodge's drive train, it is a weak truck overall, when put to use that is anyway. 90% of the farmers around here have duramax's.

i had a GMC 3/4 ton work truck. I bought it when it had 150k miles on it. The only thing thats been replaced is the alternator(which is my fault), the ac compressor, and the master cylinder. Pretty good for a truck that has 196k miles now. It still runs great. I'm getting a 2004 gmc 1/2 ton this thursday actually.

I personally thoroughly enjoy driving a truck and i think theyre muchhh more comfortable than cars.

In your case, my vote is for the gmc duramax
-Cody

[dorokusai]

The Poll is messed up, it's set up wrong. You can't vote correctly.

I vote for a new Poll before this becomes useless.

As a side note, Sprint Nextel thought a move into the Dodge Dakota was forward thinking over the Chevy Silverado....my next vehicle is a Chevy....the Dodge is being phased out due to feedback from the field. No offense to Dodge, but you don't cut it out here.

[wodom1]

My company exclusively uses Ford's. We own around $2-3 million worth of Ford trucks. About half of our Foreman's trucks (F-250's) are gas and the other half diesels. All of our big trucks are obviously diesel. As far as I know, we have no problems with any of them. We usually purchase new trucks ever 3-4 years and have a very good fleet dept. for maintenance. I say go with the F-250 or F-350. In addition to performance over the GM, I just think they look better.

[Jstas]

You know, Ford has a controlling interest in Cummins. So all you Dodge guys out there with Dodge trucks with Cummins diesels, your Dodge is powered by a Ford...so to speak! Not like it matters, the Cummins in the Dodge is a junk engine compared to what they put out in the larger commercial chassis.

As far as this crap about diesels needing higher maintenance down the road, 10-20 years ago that would be true. Nowadays, your diesel will require similar maintenance to a gasoline engine. Sometimes less because a diesel ignites on compression, not spark. That means that there are no ignition parts to replace and keep up with. The injectors are probably electrical on the consumer level trucks to save on weight and size and that is the only drawback I can see. All of the consumer grade diesel engines will run for a lifetime if properly cared for. When they do require maintenance, it is usually a tad on the expensive side compared to similar gas products. However, aside from the regular oil, filter and cooling system maintenances, a diesel engine requires service about half as much as a gasoline engine in most cases. This usually tuns into a wash or the diesel comes out slightly ahead of the gasoline engine in the long run. To really realize the benefits of the lower cost though, you'd have to drive it everyday and use it for a business. For a regular consumer looking for a personal vehicle, the difference between gas and diesel is negligible. The best difference though, that's the fact that at 250,000 miles, the diesel will not need a rebuild/remanufacturing where the gas engine most likely will.

As far as which is better for use, it depends. If you are doing heavy work like hauling large loads/heavy loads or towing something big like a camper or a car trailer then a diesel is the way to go. Far more low end grunt than any gas engine of a similar size. If you are just getting it for occasional heavy duty work and just looking for a weekend warrior vehicle capable of handling everything you can throw at it and then some, a gas engine might be a better choice. Overall though, you have to balance your wants and needs. The diesel is much more expensive at the initial cost but as I said before, that cost gets off-set during it's service life. Especially if you are using it to do things that you would need to pay someone to do if you owned a lesser vehicle. You'd have to really be doing that kind of work on a regular basis to see a cost benefit.

A diesel gives you power in gobs and and will tow pretty much anything a regular guy can hook up to it. They are heavy though and not necessarily suited for hardcore off-roading. Hauling the family to the campground with all your crap in the back is a different story though. In cold weather, you might have trouble starting it if it is REALLY cold. A gasoline engine gives you quieter operation with a lower initial cost and lower single maintenance cost. It does require more maintenance intervals than a diesel though. They are usually lighter too. However, contrary to popular belief, a diesel in a light truck will not give you stellar gas mileage. You can expect at most a 15-20% benefit over the gas engine but reality is usually 10% or less. The reason is, you can get a 5.5L gas engine putting out 300 horses and 325 pound feet of torque to handle all your needs easily or you can get a 6.0-7.5 liter diesel to handle all your needs and then some. That .5-2.0L difference makes upfor any gas mileage benefits you would see with a diesel.

Now which company would I buy from, Ford or Chevy? All biases and blind brand loyalty aside, the Ford is the way to go. The Powerstroke is tested, tried and true. It is a rock solid engine and they run forever. They have power in droves and until the most recent Cummins that Dodge threw in the Ram, the Powerstroke was king of the heap. The Ford F-series trucks are also a very well made vehicle. They have been the best selling vehilce in America for many years and there is a reason for that. Then again, Chevy and Dodge both make good vehicles too so when trying tochose among the 3, you are nit-picking details that would not factor in to other comparisons between the 3. You can pick any one of them and know you are getting a vehicle that will last and take everything you can throw at it and be sitting in the driveway the next morning begging you for more. It comes down to asthetics, features that you like/want and cost. In my experience, the Fords have been the best value.

As far as the difference between SUV's and pickups, well, I'll put it this way. When you buy an SUV, you are getting a 120+ inch wheelbase 1/2 ton 4x4 pickup chassis with a station wagon strapped to the top. This gets you a compliant ride to haul people and stuff. Because of this, your payload and towing capacity drops. Not much but it does. It is also heavier. usually 1000-1500 pounds heavier than a pickup on the same chassis. You will pay 30-40K for this behemoth of the American road. What are you getting for 30-40K? A half ton pickup that can't really haul a half ton of stuff and has pretty seats and carpeting all over it. Wanna see what you are getting underneath and what you could be paying? Check out a loaded Ford Expedition. 42K last I checked. A loaded F-150 half ton, standard cab, long bed, 4x4 with the 5.4L V8 which is built on a similar length chassis to the Expedition? It tops out at about 32K last I checked. May be different now. That is a large price disparity to pay. Especially when that pickup truck is a more capable vehicle than that SUV. Bottom line, when you pay 30-40K for a pickup, you are getting a vehicle that will get you your money's worth and has capability head and shoulders above it's SUV counter part. Personally, I would feel alot less trepidation about shelling out for the pickup than the SUV.

The only SUV I would take over a pickup would be the Ford Excursion. It's a 4 door short bed F250 SD with the exact same suspension underneath. It'll swallow alot and tow even more but it is expensive and large, very large.

[Skynut]

Lots of good info here jstas, thanks for the input.

I moved this topic to a new poll to get a better feel for what you people think.

It is rather interesting all the different responses I have been gettin.

Thanks again

[Sami]

Especially when that pickup truck is a more capable vehicle than that SUV. Bottom line, when you pay 30-40K for a pickup, you are getting a vehicle that will get you your money's worth and has capability head and shoulders above it's SUV counter part.
Apples and oranges. The SUV will haul 9 people when the pickup is a 2+2 at best so it's all about what you use it for. SUV or a STW is a family vehicle and a truck is a utility vehicle, as a second vehicle or for those without a family.

It would be nice to have a truck to haul stuff but then again, if it's not a constant need you can go and rent one. Much cheaper that way than buying an extra vehicle.

[PolknPepsi]

I voted for Deisel because of the brute strength at low rpm's. My neighbors Chevy deisel is very quiet and his driveway is about 200 feet from our house, can hardly hear it running.

Go for the Excursion, it has lots of room inside. :)

[Jstas]

Apples and oranges. The SUV will haul 9 people when the pickup is a 2+2 at best so it's all about what you use it for. SUV or a STW is a family vehicle and a truck is a utility vehicle, as a second vehicle or for those without a family.

It would be nice to have a truck to haul stuff but then again, if it's not a constant need you can go and rent one. Much cheaper that way than buying an extra vehicle.


Obviously you have never seen the Dodge Ram Quad Cab or the Ford F-series Crew Cab. Both are full sized pickup trucks with 4 doors and a 5, 6 or even 8 foort bed if you so desire. All are capable of handling up to 6 people comfortably. They will out-perform similarly sized SUV's where the only extra seating you get is a 3rd row that will accomadate 2 very cramped adults or 3 children.

You want to move people, buy a van. You can get a Chevy, Ford or Dodge van that will hold 12-15 people.

As far as renting a truck goes, you can't really rent the kind of vehicle one would need to take a family trip with a camper strapped to the back. There is too much liability there for the rental company and they would have to have heavy duty service vehicles on the lots for renting. You're typical half-ton truck does not have the capacity to yank a full-size trailer that sleeps 4-6 people. If renting was an option for Skynut, he wouldn't have this poll or the other one.

[Sami]

All are capable of handling up to 6 people comfortably.
Hell no.
You want to move people, buy a van. You can get a Chevy, Ford or Dodge van that will hold 12-15 people.
Of course but you were comparing SUV's, not vans.
If renting was an option for Skynut, he wouldn't have this poll or the other one.
I was only commenting on my own situation. A truck would be nice but not wise.

[Jstas]

Hell no.

Of course but you were comparing SUV's, not vans.

I was only commenting on my own situation. A truck would be nice but not wise.

First off, how can 6 people not fit in a 4 door truck? We are talking 4 full sized doors with two, full sized benches in the truck. Not extended cabs. You say "Hell no" like you know what you are talking about and offer nothing to back up your position.

Yes, I was comparing SUVs to trucks in payload and towing capacity. You were the one who mentioned the number of people they will hold. Infact, the quoted portion of my post never even mentions the number of people that can be sat in a pickup truck. All I did was respond to your post and the subject matter contained with in it. Why did the people aspect even come up if it wasn't a concern to begin with?

You came in to the thread, stirred up a bunch of crap about things that had nothing to do with the poster's situation, acted like you were an expert and then admitted that you lacked knowledge on the subject matter. Where has the value been added here? What was the purpose of posting contradictory information that has yet to be supported? Did you even read the thread or did you post a knee-jerk reaction to my post?

[Sami]

You said comfortably. You say they fit 4 people in the back comfortably? Anything higher than 2 in the front and it's not comfortable anymore. SUV's don't fit 9 comfortably either but many more than a truck. They are different tools for different purposes, you pick the one that suits you better. If you were referring strictly to towing capability, not overall, then I understand. Some of the comments in this thread are directed to the original question but some are general talk.

[Sami]

Obviously you have never seen the Dodge Ram Quad Cab or the Ford F-series Crew Cab. Both are full sized pickup trucks with 4 doors and a 5, 6 or even 8 foort bed if you so desire. All are capable of handling up to 6 people comfortably. They will out-perform similarly sized SUV's where the only extra seating you get is a 3rd row that will accomadate 2 very cramped adults or 3 children.
Don't they also cost the same as the SUV? At least the Ford's seem to be on par with their SUV's. How's the towing cap.?

p.s. just curious

[Skynut]

I need a truck, renting is not an option, suv = not an option.
No need to get all worked up, I am reading good and bad things here and I do not mind any comments.
I was just curious as to what the people here thought one way or the other.
This is a huge investment for me as I have never bought brand new before and may not again.
I am only trying to make an informed decision before I spend that kind of money.

[audiobliss]

Sweet!!!

EDIT - Wow...there's a second page! lol That was posted concerning Sami's post about the racing Cummins making 1500hp!




Someone at the top of the thread posted saying that he has co-workers who own a big diesel truck from the big three. Somewhere in there he say that the guy with the Ford Powerstroke doesn't get any better gas mileage than his old mide '80s Chevy diesel truck. If that's the case, that sucks!! The old chevy diesel was horrible, and it got even worse gas mileage!