Another proud new CRS+ owner

[capecodder]

Well, I'm another rookie owner, and new club member, who just picked up a pair of CRS+ speakers at an estate sale last Friday (I have prurchased all my current equipment from yard/estate sales, but thats another story). I didn't know anything about them but could tell they had quality all over them so I took the plunge and payed the steep $30 asking price. After getting a sense of what they might be worth by checking internet i figured I'd try them out againt my main Magnepan 1.5QRs and HSU HRSW10 powered subwoofer (also yard sale for $75 and $50 respectively). HOLY CRAP!! I kept trying different types of music and in no case did I think my old maggies (which I loved) were better than the CRS+s. I agree that the tweeters may be harsh, particularly at the volumes I was pouring out of them, so I have already ordered the tweeter upgrade. Nonetheless, I was amazed at the soundstage, clarity and depth of music and sounds that I had not heard before.

Don't want to get too wordy on my first post but I am interested in some typical expert advice to questions which I will add shortly.

[nadams]

Awesome first post, man! Stick around, you'll fit right in :)

That's a helluva price for ANY speakers, not just the outstanding CRS+'s. Funny how you dropped twice as much for new tweeters as you paid for the speakers themselves :D

I'm assuming that you have the interconnect cable properly hooked up? Sure sounds like it, from your post. What do you think of the SDA effect? Pretty cool, eh?

[capecodder]

Yes, interconnect came with it. I plan to use these as my new livingroom speakers (my wife is THRILLLLLLEDDD!!! to get rid of the mag's) so a couple (i have more that i can't think of right now) general questions are:
1) does running the sub with its high pass filter screw with the SDA? I prefer (i think) the CRS's with the sub running, a little less "boomy"
2) i will need to place these trully in a bookshelf setting so my distance to wall will be very close. What will I lose noticable bass particularly if i'm running a sub?

[nadams]

First off, what equipment are you running the CRS's with? Having enough power available can work wonders w/ bass and SDA's. Running a sub will not necessarily screw with the SDA effect, but it's usually frowned upon because there's not a whole lot of "musical subs" out there. Most of them are geared more towards home theater and explosions and such.

The CRS's were meant to be run in a bookshelf setting, but having no experience with them I can't tell you if it's going to reduce bass or not. The bass radiator being in the back, it might, or you never know, it might load up nicely. Only one way to tell!

One thing to remember, is that whether or not it's the accepted norm, if your setup sounds good to you, and nothing you do makes it sound better, then that's good enough. What I'm saying is, don't think you need to set it up a certain way, because that's the way it's "supposed" to be done.

[capecodder]

First off, i'm also a rookie at posts so i hate reading all my typos and speeling arrors when i re-read them. anyway..
You made some good points.
My main system, 2 ch only, no HT setup (I am also not a real audio geek so i don't always know some of the specifics):
Pre-amp: Vintage Sony TA-2000 (top of line way back in late '60's) rare and VERY well constructed
Amp: NAD 218 THX 200+ watts/ch; currently in shop for quick repair so i tested the CRS+ with my extra (may be for sale soon) vintage Dynaco 410, also 200 wts/ch
Tuner: Vintage Sansui tu-990, it replaced (because it was better) my Adcom gft-555II (also may be for sale)
CD: Nakamichi MB-8
Subwoofer: HSU HRSW10 w/ separate 100wt (i think) amp. These were very well reviewed and are considered a true musical subwoofer (google them, you may be surprised). I don't know (frequency) where the high pass filter separates the lows from highs. If i choose, i can have the lows continue thru to the CRS's and have the sub as separate, but the company recommends the alternative and the maggies performed much better with the lows removed to the sub only.

When i replace the tweeters, is there a market here for them (and what is "normal asking $??) or does everyone want to get rid of them. Frankly, if i hadn't read all the posts for replacement i would have been happy with them as is.

One of my other concerns with the bookshelf setup is that i may rattle all the collectable nik-nak stuff off the shelves when i'm home alone.

[jdhdiggs]

so I took the plunge and payed the steep $30 asking price. After getting a sense of what they might be worth by checking internet i figured I'd try them out againt my main Magnepan 1.5QRs and HSU HRSW10 powered subwoofer (also yard sale for $75 and $50 respectively).

I think I hate you... ;)

Great deals, glad you're finding this awesome gear just hanging around. How does one find out about estate sales?

[jdhdiggs]

You have more than enough power. running the line level through the high pass filter on the sub would be my recommended approach. The HSU should be more than musical enough to keep up and much less boomy. All in all, you have a pretty tight setup. That would remove all low bass to the speaks. It shouldn't affect the SDA much, if at all. You could always try it both ways. I just have never liked the "double" bass of the sound coming from the speaks and a sub.

And since you don't like them, I'll take the maggies off your hands for double what you paid for them... (hoping, hoping, hoping...) :D

[ND13]

I didn't know anything about them but could tell they had quality all over them so I took the plunge and payed the steep $30 asking price. After getting a sense of what they might be worth by checking internet i figured I'd try them out againt my main Magnepan 1.5QRs and HSU HRSW10 powered subwoofer (also yard sale for $75 and $50 respectively). HOLY CRAP!! I kept trying different types of music and in no case did I think my old maggies (which I loved) were better than the CRS+s. I agree that the tweeters may be harsh, particularly at the volumes I was pouring out of them, so I have already ordered the tweeter upgrade. Nonetheless, I was amazed at the soundstage, clarity and depth of music and sounds that I had not heard before.
.

I think I hate you, too :D

Congrats on the finds. Stick around, this place is a riot.

[Spawndn72]

Your old tweets usually sell for between $25-30 each, shipped.

[jdhdiggs]

Oh, the rattling nick knacks shouldn't be a problem from the CRS+'s if you are using the sub only for bass

[sda2mike]

tell us us about some of your other 'finds' :D welcome to the forum! :)

[nadams]

I think I hate you... ;)

Great deals, glad you're finding this awesome gear just hanging around. How does one find out about estate sales?

jdhdiggs- check your local newspaper, usually under the classifieds, for estate sales. Sherriffs auctions are here too.

[jdhdiggs]

Aww crap, that means I need to get a newspaper :(

[HBombToo]

Amp: NAD 218 THX 200+ watts/ch; currently in shop for quick repair so i tested the CRS+ with my extra (may be for sale soon) vintage Dynaco 410, also 200 wts/ch


Is the NAD 218 a common ground amp. I'm assuming the Dynaco is since no sparks flew from connecting them to the speakers...

Great find and welcome to the SDA world.

HBomb

[capecodder]

I thought this would generate interest..

Ok, i'm new here and i already have people that hate me because of the deals i've stumbled on so i'm sure i'll piss off a lot more now. I live on cape cod and for whatever reason, not really unique to here, we have alot of good yard sales. What i have begun to see is that 99% of the typical yard sale people as well as the "pickers" (i.e. pros that then re-sell items) may recognize $100 tea cups but have no clue about vintage audio equipment. The estate sale pros who run the more formal sales (and also charge more than the average joe) are also equally clueless as to the value of equipment.
However, regardless of what you are looking for, old garden tools or fine china, you will have to go to a lot of them and get there early. Most all the GOOD deals are gone in the first hour. Sooo.. while it is very hit and miss, you can often find some cool CHEAP stuff.

Examples:
Polk SDA CRS+ speakers as described above- $30
Sony TA 2000 preamp- mentioned above and very good $40
NAD 218THX 200wt+/ch amp- $75
Adcom gft555II tuner- $35
Nakamichi MB-8 cd player- $30
Magnepan 1.5QR speakers- $75
HSU HRSW10 subwoofer w/ amp- $50
Technics direct drive tt (don't remember model #, not a high end one but had a very nice B&O cartridge probably worth over $100)- $15
Dynaco 410 200wt/ch amp- $50
Sansui TU-990 tuner- trade to a dealer for a $20 plate he wanted
Pioneer SX-1050 receiver, 125wt/ch beast- $25
Vintage Electrovoice 15TRX triaxial speakers in custom cherry cabinets- one of the foremost vintage speakers made with 15" woofers and HUGE alnico magnets. I bought these totally on a hunch and didn't know what was in the cabinet until I got home. Still didn't know anything about them until i researched. Cabinets are not the right design (just cubes) but speakers are real cool. Currently garage speakers cause no place to put them $25
Marantz Imperial 6G speakers- my other garage speakers $15
H.H. Scott 222B tube integrated amp- very clean $20
Dynaco FM5- $50 ("overpaid" for this but i wanted a vintage tuner for the Scott)
Sansui AU and TU 517 amp and tuner- my son's system $40 pair
Assorted KEF, Advent, Boston and other?? small speakers for kids and extra- no more than $25 pair
Assorted CD players- I never buy a new one because i can always find a used one (not audiophile admittedly) for $10-25

I've probably forgot some random pieces

Granted, some of the equipment has needed shop work but so what, i am still way ahead. Quess i shouldn't sell any of this on this site now that everyone knows what i paid. oopps.

Alright, let the vehemence begin

[capecodder]

Uhh, whats a common ground amp and how would i know, preferably before i see sparks flying?

[jdhdiggs]

Common ground (and I expect MM to step in and correct my possible misunderstandings) meanst that both outputs of the amp have the same "ground" level.

What happens if this isnt the case with SDA's is one speaker can be at a higher potential voltage (due to a difference in ground levels) and cause current flow into the other side of the amp through the speaker and create a "no-no" (technical term ;) ) situation that causes the amp or speaks (possibly both) to go ka-boom.

In most amps, they are common ground. It is the easiest and cheapeast ways to build an amp. Virtually all amps that can be bridged have a common ground (I'd say all, but I'm only about 99% sure on that one). If the amp has the word "mono" anywhere in it's decription or technical specs, stay away with the SDA's.

I tried to be as non-technical as possible, so there you go.

You don't go by the name of Bolly do you?

[sda2mike]

Nice Finds!!!!! My best find was a Marantz 2270 with wood case and mint Marantz Imperial 6 speakers, for $25!! :D ...11 years later, the spkrs are kicking in the bedroom and the Marantz sees daily use as my main system. It's only needed a cleaning and last year, some caps.. :cool:

[ND13]

I think I hate you even more, now that you had to go and rub salt in an already nasty wound. ;) :D

[danger boy]

I hate you the most. ha ha ha

seriously though.. welcome and glad you found us. Enjoy those CRS +'s. stick around and and learn some stuff.

[capecodder]

jdhdiggs-- No, i don't go by Bolly whatever that means. First name is Ted

[F1nut]

Ted,

Congrats on having the good sense to grab the CRS+'s. Now, where do I start?

The CRS+'s will sound better on stands than on a shelf, IMO. You could buy the stands from Polk as a option, so keep a look out for them on places like ePay or there is a company called Adona that will be making a reproduction of the original stands very soon. Call Ken Swauger at Polk Customer Service and ask him to please send you a copy of the owners manual, it will explain proper set up. If you are getting boomy bass then something isn't right. Could be your set up, could be your gear. The SDA series including the CRS+'s use a PR for the bottom end. By placing them closer to the wall you get more bass, move them out, you get less. Try different distances and DO NOT toe in, you want them parallel to the back wall. I see you've already ordered the replacement tweeters, good. They will make the CRS+'s sound like a whole new speaker. Options for down the road include upgrading the crossovers and binding posts. I do not feel the need for a sub with my modded CRS+'s as they have plenty of bass, but that's your choice.

[DAGLJAM6]

I see you've already ordered the replacement tweeters, good. They will make the CRS+'s sound like a whole new speaker. Options for down the road include upgrading the crossovers and binding posts. I do not feel the need for a sub with my modded CRS+'s as they have plenty of bass, but that's your choice.

I'll vouch for all of the above having listened to F1's modded pair compared to mine. Stock, still a fine speaker but start with the tweeters and work down the list, simply amazing.

[jdhdiggs]

Ted: Just checking. It's a little stretch of a joke from another board that maybe three people here might get. No worries...

[capecodder]

F1- Thanks for the input. Given my room layout and where speakers will fit, stands are not really an option. The whole idea is to probably replace the mags which are on the "wrong" side of the room due to size etc. and reorient the speakers to the "correct" side by placing them in an exiting bookshelf wall, either side of fireplace. I have to rerun wires under basement and crawl space so its reasonably involved to relocate and re-wire, interconnect posing additional wiring dilemma. Anyway, thats why my wife is so thrilled. I can stop draping my body over the mags that she hated the moment she saw them (admittedly she was impressed with the sound) since the CRS+s sound good enough to justify their replacement (i think). I still need to do a little more side by side but the room fit aspect will now be a key factor.

I may pursue the other internal sound upgrades you mentioned once I get these situated. Don't really understand the crossover/binding changes you described but that can be a future discussion, or direction to previous post.

Subwoofer use or not will likely come out of future listening but i may have to overcome some level of cool factor of having a quality sub. As i indicated i will only be able to move the CRS's about 2 maybe 3 inches off the wall without them overhanging too much the depth of the shelf. My initial comment about "boomy" bass may be premature given the short listening time i have given these. I also may be used to the sound of my mags handling the mids and highs and letting the sub do lows. Up till now i was very satisfied with that setup.

Curious question: While I don't intend to pursue this (at least not yet, hmmm, ya think the wife would mind... they are still smaller than the mags...), based on other threads here, these small speakers by themselves seem to match up against even larger SDAs. Therefore, in a room setup like mine where I have a whole wall of bookshelves (say 25+ ft wide, fireplace dividing in middle), wouldn't two sets of CRS+s (each fully powered and in two different matching locations) be rather impressive ("wall of sound") or would they start interferring with each other's SDA "effect" (probably not the right term for this technology) or some other issue???

ps. tweeeters arrived today so i will be curious of sound improvement. I haven't really listened to the current ones other than last saturday's epiphany listening session so i may not recognize a big difference.

Finally, I have seen other posts, but once again, which color wire leads go to which new tweeter terminal (ie. the red one)??

[HBombToo]

If I recall, the red wire goes with the black dot.

Check my thinking here guys...

HBomb

[Spawndn72]

The tweets are a night and day difference. You will notice the change and you will either love it or hate it. Most like it. My father in law did not, but then again he can't hear :) Seriously, I think his loss of hearing ends up making the silver coils sound flatter than they are.

[capecodder]

I pulled and remounted the old tweets last week to take a quick look. I think (may be wrong) that the wires are black and white. My reference above to the "red one" was for one of the terminals on the new tweeter.

[HBombToo]

Black Dot should be (Plus) is what I was trying to say. My bad...

HBomb

[jdhdiggs]

The wall of sound is a bad idea IMHO. If you do some more reading on SDA's, you'll get the picture. Here's a breif explanation:

Each speak sends out two channels of info (four total) versus two in traditional speakers. The outside sound waves cancel out sound from the inside channel of the opposite speaker widening the soundstage. It is similar to putting a giant wall between the speakers and having each ear only hear one speaker in a tradional setup.

Adding additional speakers would smear that soundstage at best, at worst you would generate all kinds of goofy artifacts like nulls and moving soundstages. Sure it would make the sound bigger, but not more enjoyable IMO.

[capecodder]

jdhdiggs- Thanks, I had the feeling that i was missing something with regard to the "technology", otherwise why wouldn't you just discretely place a couple pairs of CRS's, as opposed to trying to fit the behemoth monolith big boys into a room setting. As we have all seen, the days of the massive speaker are gone in "favor" of the small cabinet.

[jdhdiggs]

If you look at the monolith's (great descriptor) they work exactly the same way, but with the mids in a line array (each with it's own range of signals), the smearing is limited. This allows for much greater presence and low end. Some feel that the CRS's are the best for pure soundstange due to the single mid, but there is no argument that the big boys give a bit more "oomph".

If you are really interested in this, PM darque_knight and see if he has any compendiums or go to http://www.polksda.com/

[F1nut]

Two or three inches from the back wall is too close, IMO. You will get boomy bass, so the use of your sub is probably the way to go.

JD answered the multiple SDA's question perfectly.

The black or blue wires are positive and go to the red dot. The white or green wires are negative. They smoked a lot of pot in those days and I think Henry was smoking some today.

[capecodder]

Thanks guys. I'll swap the tweets this weekend and let you know

[HBombToo]

The white or green wires are negative. They smoked a lot of pot in those days and I think Henry was smoking some today.

I wish I was smoking when I sent this out. :o

[capecodder]

Swapped the tweeters this weekend and they sound great. As I said earlier, I didn't listen to the original ones very long (about two hours during initial listening) and just followed advice here to slip in the new tweeters. Also haven't relocated them to their new home in the bookshelves since that means major re-wiring but I'm sure they will still sound great there as well.

I am still amazed at the sound of these small speakers. They should be considered the bargain of the decade and I don't know why they don't have more of a cult following. Hell a nice looking pair didn't meet the reserve or get above $200 on ebay this week. Probably a good thing for those that do know as prices stay cheap.

Obviously I now have a set of SL 2000's available. Based on a post above is anyone interested in them for $40 incl. shipping?

[capecodder]

Nothing spectacular but again to show how much is out there.

I bought:
Sony STR v35 receiver- Very modest unit but my 13 year old wanted something for his room to replace crappy old mini do-all unit. Works fine. $10
Optimus (radioshack, yeah I know) small speakers- $7 needed mini speakers to go with above. Actually sound Ok and in very nice cabinets.
Pioneer multi CD changer (cartirdge style)- $15 My daughter's carousel unit was starting to act up and this style fits her room better (she can pile crap on top of it instead of having to lift a cover)

Didn't buy:
Advent 1's- $10, original foams but visually in great condition with original boxs. Same person I bought the sony receiver from.
Yamaha natural sound receiver (don't know model, not a "big" one)- $20, Would have bought but had already bought receiver above.
Kenwood Receiver (newer model) w/ Boston A70 speakers- $20 for pair. I should have bought this set, both items in exc. shape, but again I had already bought above and I had no place to put the speakers. Resale not that good so I passed. Actually I'm now sorry I didn't grab the Bostons.

I reread and re-thought my earlier post of current yard sale buys. Two mistakes:
Sansui tuner is the 999 model not 990. The 990 has a real cult following and brings big money. Noetheless my stereo technician tested my 999 and said it was one of the most sensitve he has ever tested.
Also I payed $125 for the Magnepans, not $75. Not exactly a bad deal either.

[replicant]

[QUOTE=capecodder

Obviously I now have a set of SL 2000's available. Based on a post above is anyone interested in them for $40 incl. shipping?[/QUOTE]

I might be interested in the tweets for some sdas. let me know
replicant_argent@yahoo.com