LSi15 vs LSi9 + PSW1000

[knownalien_]

this sub is not out yet, but I am in a bit of a quandry. I love to listen to music, esp. rock and Classical, but I fear that my current amp will not make the LSi15's sing. I watch movies too, but to be honest, I don't listen critically to the sound, unless I am listening to music. Here is my current setup:

Denon AVR-2105 (http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/451.asp)
Sony DVP-CX985V (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=DVPCX985V/BSTOCK)
Polk RTi100 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rti100/) Fronts
Polk CSi3 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/individual/center/csi3/) Center
Polk Rti28 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/rti28/) Surrounds
Polk PSW350 (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/psw350/) Subwoofer
Sony KDF-50WE655 50" LCD

It is in a small to medium sized room. What I really desire is a full range sound. Though the LSI's are rated down to 22 hz, the LSi9's mated with this new Polk sub would drop to 20 hz.

as an aside, why do sites like Crutchfield rate the LSI15's only down to 32 hz? Is it because they consider only the -3B limit?

[McLoki]

this sub is not out yet, but I am in a bit of a quandry. I love to listen to music, esp. rock and Classical, but I fear that my current amp will not make the LSi15's sing. I watch movies too, but to be honest, I don't listen critically to the sound, unless I am listening to music. Here is my current setup:

It is in a small to medium sized room. What I really desire is a full range sound. Though the LSI's are rated down to 22 hz, the LSi9's mated with this new Polk sub would drop to 20 hz.

as an aside, why do sites like Crutchfield rate the LSI15's only down to 32 hz? Is it because they consider only the -3B limit?
For a 2 channel setup, I would say go with the Lsi15's. For double duty as 2 channel and HT setup, I would go with the LSi9's and forget about the polk sub. For the same price as the polk sub you can get an SVS PC-Ultra to run with you LSi-9's. That will be a killer setup for both HT and 2 channel listening.

No matter which speaker you purchase (the 9's or the 15's) you will want to plan on a decent 2 channel amp to run them with. If you are going to purchase the speakers first and then an amp later - the 9's will present an easier load than the 15's, but to get the most out of them you will still want a separate amp.

The -3db point for speakers (especially ported speakers) is really the only number you should follow. For deep bass, the 15's will not hold a candle to the 9's with a decent sub. The 15's are fine by themselves for most music listening, but if you are running them as the fronts in your HT, you will still need a good sub to fill in. If I put the 15's as my front speakers in a HT setup, I would try and set them to small and cross them over to the sub at 40hz.

good luck and welcome to club polk,

Michael

[Jeffrey_B]

I agree with Mklocki

In my family room, I have LSi9s in my HT with two SVS 20-39 PC+s and in my living room I have a paris of LSi15s for stereo listening. the 15s are good for music, but you will need a sub for HT and the 9's are good enough. Get an SVS sub as they give you great value and performance for the price. JEFF

[wingnut4772]

I agree. Go SVS or Outlaw LFM-1 (http://outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1.html) and you will be happy.

[jmierzur]

I had the LSi9 with PC-Ultra subs for over one year for both two channel and HT duty. Once setup and calibrated, the 9's and PCU integrated to produce a seamless presentation down to the lowest octave. I would select a ‘monitor’ speaker with my PCU subs over most full range speakers without hesitation. In addition, I have to agree with McKoli and also recommend the PCU based on personal experience.

You might want to consider purchasing an external amp for two-channel listening regardless of your speaker solution. This will give you additional performance benefits with your existing equipment.

I still use monitor speakers with the PCU subs for both two channel and HT as they can handle any source material I wish to throw at them. One of my favorite discs is Telarc’s latest recording of Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture. I have the SACD version and listen to the two-channel DSD mix. It’s quite stunning from the opening choruses to the ending cannon volley. I highly recommend this disc for your collection.

[Ferres]

If you can't afford a power amp yet, you could get some good speaker cables like xlo's er11's or ultra 6. They help a lot for none power amp set ups.

[knownalien_]

i broke down and bought the lsi15's tonight!

lol

I have wanted these for over a year now! Even with my weak amp, they'll sound better than my RTi100's.

[aaharvel]

congratulations knownalien. welcome to the forums

[knownalien_]

the next purchase is either going to be this new Pok sob mentioned above or a nice Denon amp.

I am breaking these guys in right now. Even NOT broken up they sound very clear. I get goose bumps at some parts of recordings because I hear things like I never have before.

[knownalien_]

i don't want to sound gay or anything, but I am listening to classical music on these speakers that I have not heard before. Having a masters in violin performance, all I can say is that I am near tears with what I am hearing.

awesome.

particularly I was listening to Ravel's Piano concerto in G Maj. and Debussy's La Mer "Dialogue of the Wind and Sea."

damn!

[knownalien_]

i swear I can hear every single mistake!

lol

now I am wondering how much those two outlaws can make those speaker sound?!! they are within my budget.

hmmmmmmmmmmm.

[okiepolkie]

Out laws. Out Laws. OUT LAWS. OUTLAWS

Hope I made myself clear.

[aaharvel]

i think he like outlaws.

Persoanlly, knownalien I would go Emerson.

or maybe Casio. Doesn't Casio offer HDMI on all their top end gear now? :D

[knownalien_]

I can get two of these (http://outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html) for $624. should I pull the trigger? At 4 ohms, they are rated at 300 watts! That sounds like too much for the LSI15's to me.

[McLoki]

You can never be to rich, to thin, or have to many watts.....

Michael

BTW - those would work fine.

[knownalien_]

would you bother bi-wiring my amp and the outlaws with the LSI15's? or just run them off of the outlaws? I am about to buy the pair of outlaws now.

[okiepolkie]

Don't bother bi-amping the Denon with the Outlaws. You can try it, but I think you will have better sound overall if you just go with the Outlaws.

Anthter thing to keep in mind is that you can get a good, used two channel amplifier for cheaper. Or you could wait until a couple of used Outlaw monoblocks showed up However, it is hard to wait, I know.

Zach

[knownalien_]

if I bi-amp then I will have to buy two sets of VERY expensive speaker wire.

this is what I want to get:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=AQT44B&product_name=Type+4+Speaker+Cable+%2D+Factory+Term inated

they cost $132. 4 ft of AudioQuest Type 4 speaker wire.

I am also getting AudioQuest copperhead interconnects for the two outlaws to be connected to my Denon's pre-outs.

[okiepolkie]

Those would be nice, but if you want good wire for a little less money(maybe not a whole lost less), look at these: http://www.signalcable.com/speaker_cables.html

If you mention you are a Club Polk member, you get 5% off. There are a lot of people here on the forum using these cables.

[McLoki]

I am not going to say if purchasing very expensive wire is worth it or not since I have not heard your system, but I would purchase some decent but inexpensive wire and interconnects to get you by, then join the cable swap program to decide what you like. That way you only have to purchase what you hear is better in your system.

Just a thought.

Michael

[audiobliss]

Congrats on the LSi15!! They're definitely awesome speakers.

Those Outlaw monoblocks should do you just fine, but I would also consider looking at some nice 2-channel amplifiers (Rotel, Adcom, etc.). Either way you should be all grins, though.

As someone else said, don't worry about bi-amping with your Denon. Just use the pre-outs and your Outlaws (or whatever you decide to get), and you'll be happy.

I would also recommend you get some cheap(er) speaker cables and interconnects until you get a good solid foundation (Preamp, amp, source, etc.). Joining in on the speaker swap program wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

[aaharvel]

Outlaw Monoblocks, and McLoki's advice on speakerwire.

[knownalien_]

i can't believe what I just did. I wimped out of buying the outlaws for NOW. Instead, I went to the store and bought the LSiC!!

lol

I'm such a dork! I figured, I like to listen to music more, BUT, the wife likes to watch movies more. and you know how that goes. I gave her the choice: outlaws or massive upgrade from my current center speaker? She chose the latter.

I also bought 70 ft. of Monster Ultra 600 THX. Just using that alone from the generic cable I had has made a MAJOR difference. When I first powered up my speakers tonight, I thought the subwoofer was on. It was not. the cable alone gave the LSi15's a massive bottom end! I am watching LOTR without a sub!!! I also used bannana plugs at the speaker and amp ends. It's rather stunning how pretty the LSi series is. I chose cherry.

So many things to upgrade and add, but it's a great start the LSi's.

also, since I have so much speaker cable left I will gladly send anyone a length of it to try, but Monster is probably beneath many here.

[audiobliss]

Congrats on the new center channel! Next you gotta get those Outlaws! They'll make a world of difference. Glad you like your new speaker cable, too. I've gotta get me some new wire, as I'm just running some generic stuff from Radio Shack.

[knownalien_]

according to another thread, the cable exchange is no longer happening.

[audiobliss]

Oh really? Wow. I didn't know that. (Obviously I wasn't participating in it.)

[okiepolkie]

Only problem you have now is you will have to get three Outlaw monoblocks :eek: :)

[knownalien_]

Only problem you have now is you will have to get three Outlaw monoblocks :eek: :)
i think that Denon will be alright with the center. but I do agree that outlaws are needed for the fronts. Afterall, the center doesn't have the 8" woofer that the 15's have.

[audiobliss]

Hmm. I'd still wanna go with three monoblocks. Sure, if money is tight just go with two for now. But plan on getting one for the center later on.

[aaharvel]

Hmm. I'd still wanna go with three monoblocks. Sure, if money is tight just go with two for now. But plan on getting one for the center later on.

right on. don't skimp on center amplification- especially if the stereo pair already have it and you won't a coherent front soundstage.

[knownalien_]

the third one will come. You know, I am having trouble ordering from their site.

?

I'll try again today.

[PolknPepsi]

Outlaws Monoblocks..............Great!

[knownalien_]

it won't work again today. something must be down with their ordering site. I already have AudioQuest interconnects coming from audioadvisor.com

[audiobliss]

Wow, you're really putting together a nice system, here. I hope you can manage to order those Outlaws soon. They'll make a world of difference.

[knownalien_]

I'm gonna phone in the order tommorow. Now I am getting nervous that I should order one now for my center channel. I might do it and not tell the wife!

lol

[cfrizz]

LOL. Good luck!

[soiset]

i don't want to sound gay or anything, ...

Why are you eager to avoid sounding gay, and why would you be worried about that potential based on what you said?

[knownalien_]

and why would you be worried about that potential based on what you said?


I don't understand this question. could you be more specific?

[soiset]

I don't understand this question. could you be more specific?

Apparently something about the rest of what you said, that is, becoming emotional over finely reproduced music, has you worried that you might be perceived as gay. So one, why would that emotionalism lead one to believe that you were gay, and two, why is that a perception you seek to avoid, so much so that you stated that you did not want to give that appearance?

[knownalien_]

Apparently something about the rest of what you said, that is, becoming emotional over finely reproduced music, has you worried that you might be perceived as gay. So one, why would that emotionalism lead one to believe that you were gay, and two, why is that a perception you seek to avoid, so much so that you stated that you did not want to give that appearance?

#1 you are either a jerk (likely)

or

#2 you have never seen a "figure of speech" you understood

[knownalien_]

let me make it clear. I could write anything in place of "gay."

speaker
rug
carpet
chair
arm
tooth
computer

and you would come back and say "why are you afraid of being construed as a [insert word here]?"

get it?

get a clue.

[soiset]

Well, would anyone else care to volunteer anything? Or shall I take this as generally indicative of the nature of Club Polk?

[knownalien_]

^^ it's simple dude. were're talking audio, not lifestyle. go to some other site to talk about that crap and stop trying to recuit others who share your idiocy.

[knownalien_]

you think you sound real clever, but you sound like an accusative ass.

[cfrizz]

Just chalk it up to a non politically correct figure of speech and leave it at that.

By the way even though you have been registered a long time, welcome to Club Polk!!!

[knownalien_]

no. what does "gay" have to do with audio? I don't need some red neck "gay" killer flooding this forum with their morals.

[soiset]

Just chalk it up to a non politically correct figure of speech and leave it at that.

By the way even though you have been registered a long time, welcome to Club Polk!!!

Thanks for the welcome, cfrizz, but I'm sure you could imagine several other "non-politically correct figures of speech" that might not be so readily tolerated.

[knownalien_]

cfrizz,

this ass doesn't want to talk audio. he wants to talk lifestyle. is condemnation of that allowed here?

[knownalien_]

Thanks for the welcome, cfrizz, but I'm sure you could imagine several other "non-politically correct figures of speech" that might not be so readily tolerated.
if you are offended, say it. otherwise, don't play word games.

lastly, if my words offend you then you are the most sensitive person I have seen on the net and likely not very compatible with the internet.

[cfrizz]

Yes I could however, they are words that are warnable offenses. This was not, it was simply something said in jest. I simply chalk it up to it being a guy thing and just let it pass.

Like I said, it's not PC but then we don't discuss politics here.

[audiobliss]

Hmm. This is real interesting. It seems as though knownalien was using that purely as a phrase, albeit not a politically correct one. However, I'm not fond of being politically correct.

And in line with that thought, if I ever use the phrase "not to sound gay", you can take it to its full implications: I'm not gay, I don't wanna be gay, and I don't want you to think I am.

And to answer the first part of your question, one could argue that emotional stuff is more commonly considered feminine than masculine. Thus, a guy admitting to being emotionally moved, could be perceived as being (or having a) feminine (side). And could thus perhaps be construed as being gay.

But obviously none of that was intended in this instance. It seems as though knownalien was just using it as a figure of speech.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!!

[audiobliss]

is condemnation of that allowed here?

Hmm. Condemnation. I personally condemn the practice. But I tolerate it. And I love those who are so inclined. But I still condemn the practice. As far as condemning it (and other lifestyles) on this forum, I'd be cautious about such things. (I wonder if this post will be seen as being cautious..)

But, to be honest, as offensive, vulgar, rude, and everything else so many of the conversations can get here, it does seem rather odd to say, "Oh, you can't do that. Sure, you can do this and this and that, but not that."

Anyhoo.

[knownalien_]

I'm sorry. i thought this was a forum about audio, not political correctness. Let's start looking at eachothers' usernames and see what offends us!

:rolleyes

[soiset]

Just sounds like plain old bigotry to me. I guess I should just be quiet, though.

[cfrizz]

Knownalien, just keep in mind that this is a PUBLIC forum & people from ALL walks of life are interested in audio. I always try to think twice before I write once. It doesn't always work but I try.

We all know that certain words, phrases, ect. have more than one meaning & some are used as insults. It behooves all of us to keep this in mind when we post, since it's hard to tell when someone is joking or not.

Cathy

[wingnut4772]

Soiset,
I also thought it was somewhat offensive. As one of the few women on these forums I read so many comments that -if I took personal offense to them - I would never enjoy what these forums really have to offer. Different strokes. I am here to talk about audio. Usually the people who are really offensive get weeded out. I don't think knownalien was being malicious or intentionally insensitive....he just used an unfortunate figure of speech.

[wingnut4772]

Well said Cathy.


-Darla ;)

[shack]

I just love it when someone makes SOMETHING out of absolutely NOTHING....

[knownalien_]

I guess Polk encourages the fidelity of sound as well and the unfettered interpretation of any word(s) in this forum.

let me go off on a tangent then if this is the apparent trend: in this nation, your freedom of speech is being REDUCED, not maintained or increased. Thank god the gov't will not, as of yet, tell Polk what speaker specs are allowable. Let people get offended at the use of a period or comma and you give cause for the gov't to come in a regulate a thing.

[soiset]

Soiset,
I also thought it was somewhat offensive. As one of the few women on these forums I read so many comments that -if I took personal offense to them - I would never enjoy what these forums really have to offer. Different strokes. I am here to talk about audio. Usually the people who are really offensive get weeded out. I don't think knownalien was being malicious or intentionally insensitive....he just used an unfortunate figure of speech.

Well, while we are utterly and completely derailed:
I can both be offended by someone's comments and enjoy what these otherwise execllent fora have to offer. But by not saying anything, I would simply be allowing reinforcement of an unjust status quo when it would be so dang easy to call it out.

Social problems exist, and at the risk of tweaking the well-entrenched (see comments of Audiobliss above) I'd prefer to make some small effort to see them resolved. My social conscience does not disappear when I'm reading an audio forum.

[soiset]

I just love it when someone makes SOMETHING out of absolutely NOTHING....

Shack, I encourage you to take the posts of Knownalien, and perhaps some others, and insert, in your mind, another word that classifies an entire group of people, particularly one that has suffered substantial oppression in recent history. How does it read?

[shack]

Soiset, I encourage you to take your attempt to "school" me on political correctness and .......(insert whatever politically incorrect phrase you choose here).

[audiobliss]

Social problems exist

That is for sure!!


and at the risk of tweaking the well-entrenched (see comments of Audiobliss above) I'd prefer to make some small effort to see them resolved.

Sorry if I'm being dense and a lil' slow tonight (I'm really tired....), but what does that mean? ...I'm betting it's a use of 'tweak' I've not encountered before...


My social conscious does not disappear when I'm reading an audio forum.

And most definitely nor does mine.

[Sami]

And in line with that thought, if I ever use the phrase "not to sound gay", you can take it to its full implications: I'm not gay, I don't wanna be gay, and I don't want you to think I am.
It's something one uses when they are not secure about their sexuality. They are not very masculine and afraid someone might think they are gay.

:)

[audiobliss]

I'm pretty secure. I know which I am, and I know which I prefer. But you can't always convey that in a forum.

[Sami]

I'm pretty secure. I know which I am, and I know which I prefer. But you can't always convey that in a forum.
Why would you have to if you're secure and YOU know what your sexual preference is?

[aaharvel]

Soiset, Known Alien. You're both right.

End of catfight.

Now... wasn't it lsi15's vs. lsi9 with a sub?

I'll take the lsi9 with a sub. =)

[ND13]

WTF happened here? This thread spiraled into the cyber abyss really quick. I say let this topic rest and never bring it back up. There are a few gay members here that I respect and like very much, and this is the type of crap that can go nowhere but down. Let it go and get back on audio topics in this forum, please :)

[Frank Z]

i don't want to sound gay or anything = I don't want to sound like I'm outside the boundries of what most of you here would consider to be a mainstream audio enthusiast based solely on the music that I'm listening to at the moment...not that there's anything wrong with that!!

Everyone happy now? :rolleyes:

[audiobliss]

No. I want my amps to arrive now!!!!

[Frank Z]

Female dog, Female dog, Female dog!

[aaharvel]

Here. You've earned it Noel. :cool:

[audiobliss]

drools, dreams, drools some more


about my amps, of course...

[knownalien_]

Soiset, Known Alien. You're both right.

End of catfight.

Now... wasn't it lsi15's vs. lsi9 with a sub?

I'll take the lsi9 with a sub. =)

I can say that in my small to medium sized room that with the 15's, I acutally have my sub off! If I turned it on it was only at a very low volume to sorta fill a tiny gap in the low end.

[knownalien_]

the outlaws are on the way. now someone has me thinking tube Pre-amps. Scary indeed!

[cfrizz]

Congrats I think you will love it. Personally, I would wait & see how you like the sound of your amps & Denon before rushing out to get tubes.

Right now some of the guys think that tubes are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Maybe they are & maybe they aren't, but you have not even checked out what you have coming before thinking of getting something else.

Give your new set up a chance before changing what you don't even know that you like yet.

Cathy

[knownalien_]

^ definitely. Honestly, I am trying to figure out just exactly why I need my Denon in the future if I go all seperates. It is their middle to low line product.

[cfrizz]

I hear you. I would love an all Rotel separates setup, but I can't afford it, and waiting around saving for the one I wanted, by the time I would be ready to buy it would be obsolete.

For me a receiver/w pre-outs & all the latest bells & whistles with separate amps is doing an admirable job. Also separates are not updated as quickly as receivers & cost considerably more money to be obsolete so soon.

The biggest improvement to my system was getting separate amps, and I mean SS amps not tubes.

Enjoy your most recent purchases, and see how you & your wife like them. And keep us updated.

Cathy

[knownalien_]

the outlaws will be hear tommorrow!

I can't even bring myself to turn on the 15's until they arrive. di I already mention that I have even now turned off my sub because the 15's provide plenty of bass?

I'll have pictures shortly.

[Polkfan]

Well, would anyone else care to volunteer anything? Or shall I take this as generally indicative of the nature of Club Polk?


Most of the replies given in this forum lack much in the way of consideration. Many of them are actually based on mis-information, and the propagation of it. Yes, it is indicative of the nature of Club Polk unfortunately.

[Frank Z]

Most of the replies given in this forum lack much in the way of consideration. Many of them are actually based on mis-information, and the propagation of it. Yes, it is indicative of the nature of Club Polk unfortunately.
Would you care to support these comments with something other than smoke and mirrors?

[audiobliss]

Indeed. That'd be nice.

[knownalien_]

I think perhaps it is best of we let sleeping dogs lie. let's stick to audio.

[audiobliss]

I would like that, too.

[beardog03]

Most of the replies given in this forum lack much in the way of consideration. Many of them are actually based on mis-information, and the propagation of it. Yes, it is indicative of the nature of Club Polk unfortunately.

As with ANY forum..

Please don`t bash this Forum..

If you don`t like it leave....
If you do, by all means stay and contribute,

but don`t think that a few comments , or members making those comments, that you don`t like or agree with, make up the whole Forum...

There is a WEALTH of info , and ALOT of outstanding people on this forum...

Make your own judgements, and come to your own conclusions..
but keep them to yourself, or risk becoming one of the people your talking about..

;)

Just My .02

Carry on Gentlemen...and Ladies... :cool:

[Polkfan]

As with ANY forum..

Please don`t bash this Forum..

If you don`t like it leave....
If you do, by all means stay and contribute,

but don`t think that a few comments , or members making those comments, that you don`t like or agree with, make up the whole Forum...

There is a WEALTH of info , and ALOT of outstanding people on this forum...



Make your own judgements, and come to your own conclusions..
but keep them to yourself, or risk becoming one of the people your talking about..

;)

Just My .02

Carry on Gentlemen...and Ladies... :cool:




Adios! Oh yeah, this place should really be called club SVS.

[audiobliss]

Hasta la vista, bebe!! *opens fire*

[audiobliss]

By the way, that was a very good reply, beardog!

[shack]

Most of the replies given in this forum lack much in the way of consideration. Many of them are actually based on mis-information, and the propagation of it. Yes, it is indicative of the nature of Club Polk unfortunately.
After serious consideration, quite a bit of research and taking extra care to discern the facts, I have come to the conclusion and respectfully submit that Polkfan is a F*****G Troll.

[ND13]

Well it looks like Polkfan has gone back to edit out every single post he has ever made here(all 15 of them in almost 2 years, he must have had a wealth of pertinent info to share with the rest of the members, huh). I guess he must have asked a question about a piece of gear he just bought and didn't get the answers he wanted to here or the glowing review he was expecting. :rolleyes:

[shack]

Darn, I just put him on my ignore list....

[audiobliss]

...well, there goes tonights entertainment, then....what were ya thinking?!...

[knownalien_]

The outlaws came!

and they bring me new life!!!

[Frank Z]

The outlaws came!

and they brought me a new wife!!!
Fixed it for ya! :D

Congrats on the upgrade. You owe us a full review.

[knownalien_]

I can start now. The 15's sound like the LSi25's did in the store. That's at high sound levels, obviously, but damn! I took a peek at the woofer while it was running and the watts make it react so fast that it seems to recover very fast so that you don't get that flutter when they extend to far out. At 4 ohms, I am driving 300 watts into each! And also, these outlaws do look nice. I wil post a pic in a minute.

[Frank Z]

I wil post a pic in a minute. Of the new wife?!? :eek:

[knownalien_]

she's not a new wife. ;)

[knownalien_]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/knownalien/120_2035.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/knownalien/120_2037.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/knownalien/120_2038.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v349/knownalien/120_2036.jpg

the speakers look like the Shroud or Turin.

yes, that's whiskey and coke in front of the TV.

[audiobliss]

Nice equipment rack!

And congrats on making your system better!

[polkatese]

good thing I am on DSL ;) Nice system! I do think your center channel need to go above the TV - but that just me...

[cfrizz]

Congrats! I knew you would like them!!!

[McLoki]

Unless you are lying on the floor while watching TV, you should angle your center channel at your listening position. For temp you could just put a rolled up towel or rubber door stop (the kind that look like a short rubber wedge) under the front of the speaker till it is aimed at your ears in your main listening position.

looks great though. congrats.

Michael

[knownalien_]

good thing I am on DSL ;) Nice system! I do think your center channel need to go above the TV - but that just me...
you can see, there is no where else to put it. Even the TV cannot move back far enough to allow the center to sit in front of it, not without blocking the infared sensor.

[knownalien_]

Unless you are lying on the floor while watching TV, you should angle your center channel at your listening position. For temp you could just put a rolled up towel or rubber door stop (the kind that look like a short rubber wedge) under the front of the speaker till it is aimed at your ears in your main listening position.

looks great though. congrats.

Michael
I do want it to aim up at me. I tried peices of wood, but my wife laughed at it. I agree, it needs to be angled to me just as the mains need to be toed in towards the listening position.

[knownalien_]

one thing about the new outlaws:

they are very very thin. very.

very.

but the power transformer virtually makes contact with the casing. because of that, at high spl's, the unit will still get hot even though it is a fanless design, which I think most prefer.

its funny, but I have more watts on the two main channels than the most powerful Denon receiver can match.

[tdeluce]

one thing about the new outlaws:

they are very very thin. very.

very.

but the power transformer virtually makes contact with the casing. because of that, at high spl's, the unit will still get hot even though it is a fanless design, which I think most prefer.

its funny, but I have more watts on the two main channels than the most powerful Denon receiver can match.

I recommend getting one more for you LSiC...

[knownalien_]

I recommend getting one more for you LSiC...


oh, I will. it'd be a crime not to when they are so cheap!

[heiney9]

one thing about the new outlaws:

they are very very thin. very.

very.

but the power transformer virtually makes contact with the casing. because of that, at high spl's, the unit will still get hot even though it is a fanless design, which I think most prefer.

its funny, but I have more watts on the two main channels than the most powerful Denon receiver can match.

I'd be interested to know what type of amp design is used. It can't be Mosfet or bi-polar class A/AB. It must be a class D or chip type amp. No way you could get that kind of power in that small of a chassis w/ a small tranny without it being a switching type amp. Nothing wrong with that...I am just curious. You have a very nice set-up, enjoy and happy listening :)

H9

[PolknPepsi]

Those green IC's look pretty nice and as always the speakers look like little soldiers wearing tuxedos.
.......and those Outlaw Monoblocks are of a neat slim design and affordable to boot!

[cfrizz]

Here is part of the writeup a guy over on Outlaw did of the M200 which answers your question.

"The M200 is a somewhat unusual design. A traditional solid state class A/B 200W amp would generate a great deal of heat, making it very difficult to stack multiple amps closely together without providing some mechanical means of ventilation. And yet, the M200 has no mechanical cooling components: no fans, no heat pipes, no water cooling monstrocities such as might be found in an overclocked PC. This is because the M200 is a hybrid. For the first 80W, the M200 is a traditional class A/B design, at which point it is very similar in design concept to an individual channel from an amp such as Outlaw's Model 7100 (although there does not appear to be any specific design component carry-over between the M200 and Outlaw's other amp products). When asked to produce more than 80W, the M200 switches transparently from class A/B to class G amplification. This transition is reported to take only 2 microseconds (that's 0.002 milliseconds, or 0.000002 seconds) and be completely inaudible. It is this reliance on class G amplification under high demand conditions (which are rare in most cases) that allows the M200 to be so small and to not yield overheating problems when stacked or installed in cramped spaces. But how does it sound? There's one good way to find out..."





I'd be interested to know what type of amp design is used. It can't be Mosfet or bi-polar class A/AB. It must be a class D or chip type amp. No way you could get that kind of power in that small of a chassis w/ a small tranny without it being a switching type amp. Nothing wrong with that...I am just curious. You have a very nice set-up, enjoy and happy listening :)

H9

[audiobliss]

So, when it's asked to produce more than 80 watts, let's say 140, and it switches into class G mode, are all 140 watts 'G' watts? Or are the first 80 still Class A/B and the other 60 'G' watts?

Are there any wholy G class amplifiers? If so, how do they sound/perform? Is class G more lenient, meaning it allows for more distortion and such? I would assume so.

[heiney9]

Class G I believe is what is known as a switching amp. Meaning the outputs are either fully on or fully off. Class AB has the outputs half on or half off. Class A is fully on (no switching). Class A gives (argueably the best sound) AB is a nice compromise especially if it's biased heavily towards class A. Class G in most applications is less desireable becasue of switching (notch) distortion. Typically these are used in subs. And this hybrid is probably better than full class G. Class G is very very effecient. Class AB is generally considered to be effecient. Athought as it biases higher towards class A it becomes less effecient. Class A is the least effecient dissapating almost 50% of it energy as heat. That's the skinny and if I've mis spoken I'm someone will correct me.

H9

[heiney9]

So, when it's asked to produce more than 80 watts, let's say 140, and it switches into class G mode, are all 140 watts 'G' watts? Or are the first 80 still Class A/B and the other 60 'G' watts?

Are there any wholy G class amplifiers? If so, how do they sound/perform? Is class G more lenient, meaning it allows for more distortion and such? I would assume so.

Nope it is constantly switching between classes. It's the same with an AB design. Most (AB) are biased to run in pure A for say about 5-10 watts and then switch to class AB for the rest. The switching has to do with the wave form swithcing poles on the transistor from + to -. The point where the wave form crosses over from + to - is the switching point and if it's going + to - it switches of the pos side of the tranny and switches on the neg side until it does a 1/2 cycle again them turns off the neg and turns on the pos. This is more effecient becasue when the signal doesn't need to use the other "half" of the transistor it shuts off. But this comes at a price...notch distortion and a high degree on non-linearities, which can be contolled/eliminated with biasing and negative feedback. In class A both sides of the transistor are on all the time; the half not used has to dissipate the energy, and it's done in the form of heat. The whole transistor stays on but only half is being used to reproduce the wave form in each cycle (AC). AB class amps have been around for along time and while switching distortion and non-linearities are by products, negative feedback and biasing are the general ways to minimize these effects. As for class G, I'm not sure how they get around the switching or non-linearities they for sure are there. Class G maybe very similar to how the Sonic T-amp worked.

H9

[knownalien_]

So, when it's asked to produce more than 80 watts, let's say 140, and it switches into class G mode, are all 140 watts 'G' watts? Or are the first 80 still Class A/B and the other 60 'G' watts?

Are there any wholy G class amplifiers? If so, how do they sound/perform? Is class G more lenient, meaning it allows for more distortion and such? I would assume so.

the amps I have are rated at 0.05% THD from 8 to 4 ohms. so yes, they are very clean sounding.

[speakergeek]

Nice setup there knownalien! I have been seriously considering the Outlaw 1070 recevier my self as an upgrade from my TX-SR600.

[audiobliss]

Rest assured it'll be better than your Onkyo. However, you may want to consider separates.

[knownalien_]

to be honest, I am not lying when I say I do not need a sub. Perhaps it is because my room is medium sized, but who knows. I have listened to a lot now. Again, I am listening to flat reproductions. no "rock" eq or anything like that. Just direct and flat, and even at that the bass can be overpowering. I never thought that would be the case.

Someone onces asked about rock and the RTi's vs. the LSi's. I can say this for sure having many different kinds of music. The LSi's are likely to shine wherever there exists the chance that the performers might have done something unique. The LSi's will bring that out. But in places where they are just performing the notes, like a typical Rush song, then you won't get a lot more out of it save some clarity. Hell, at this level you can start to hear engineering errors, which is kind of cool. But putting something on like David Bowie's Space Oddity or Jesus Christ Superstar, you are going to hear things you never heard before or merely suspected before but really heard upon listening them to them on the LSi's. So, when listening to groups like Rush, you are likely to get a lot of raw power hearing them on the RTi's, like the 12's. I would love to hear Rush on the RTi12's. I have only heard one song on them, but that was using Rush's worst engineered recording. I used that particular one to test the tweeter only.