Tube Preamplifier/ Solid State Power amplifier [Archive]

DAGLJAM6

10-22-2005, 08:42 AM

I won't be going back, great sound and too much flexibility (rolling tubes on the pre and speaker selection based on the amp).What more sould you ask for? A relatively easy way to push about any speaker load out there and the ability to custom tailor the sound to your individual preferences. The only thing that i'll be looking at in the near future is upgrading power amps. I've got a plain jane Kenwood M2A amp on one set up and an Adcom on the other, matched with the Dodd ELP and CJ PV10b tubed pre's. I'm happy with the sound but want to explore some other power side options.

george daniel

10-22-2005, 08:50 AM

A I L -1,thru adcom 555, and parasound (now sold)HCA 1200 II,yes Belles 350a, in 4 days,, the tube pre is smoother, high's seem to more natural, music is not as colored,everything seems more "natural",music seems to flow from the 1c's without effort, the mids and high's really impressed me, very easy on the ears,(less grainy) I've been up since 5 am with phones on, Orbinson, Hendrix @ woodstock, Cream@ Royal Albert Hall,currently experimenting with tubes,put in some JJ's e88cc's, awaiting some amperex bb's. I got this pre from agon,previously owned by an attorney in Nashville,we swap e-mails and he is awaiting my report on the belles,as the l-1 and belles are supposed to be a match made in heaven. I cannot stress enough that Everything that I have listened to so far just sounds "more" the way it should,more natural,,even my wife noticed a difference and likes it.WW,you've heard this from before,so I'll stop rambling,but I just can't get enough,I keep going back for more,,everything old, is new again, why I did not do this years ago,I'll never know. For my system, it's perfect :D

ND13

10-22-2005, 08:59 AM

Dodd MLP with PSound HCA 1200II^^ ;) and I'll never, ever go back to a SS pre. And I can't see ever needing another pre, since I have the ELP also. :) :cool:

george daniel

10-22-2005, 09:19 AM

I hope that you found the packing acceptable :)

ND13

10-22-2005, 10:50 AM

I hope that you found the packing acceptable :)

I bet you don't have a piece of styrofoam or bubble pack left in your house or neighborhood, do you??? :D

Oh and guys/gals, this fella uses athletic/medical grade tape(on the inside, not the outside) instead of the cheap shit. You can tell he's in the medical field :)

shack

10-22-2005, 11:05 AM

Dodd ELP and NAD C270 SS amp. And yes, right now I've moved the Dodd out of the mix and I'm using my NAD C160 SS pre. IMO either setup is just fine.

george daniel

10-22-2005, 11:07 AM

You got that right,,I even did the "shake test" before I took it down to shipping, those people hide all of the packing material when they see me coming their way.Enjoy- :D :D

ND13

10-22-2005, 11:08 AM

You got that right,,I even did the "shake test" before I took it down to shipping, those people hide all of the packing material when they see me coming their way.Enjoy- :D :D

I can see you now shaking a 48# box :eek: :D :p

george daniel

10-22-2005, 11:19 AM

Yeah,,workmans comp ;)

polkatese

10-22-2005, 12:03 PM

Dodd MLP and Krell 400xi. I might check around another ss pre, big part of it because, as good as it sounds, the hum and noise (which I can still hear from 3ft away) bugged the shit out of me.

ND13

10-22-2005, 12:06 PM

I got rid of 90% of the buzz/hum in the ELP with a better IC between the pre and amp. My MLP has just a slight buzz/hum and I have to be within a foot or so to notice it.

george daniel

10-22-2005, 12:08 PM

Guess I'm lucky so far,, no hum with my L-1, with two different amps, originaly had some with my ss pre, but I changed cable television outlets,and it went away :)

reeltrouble1

10-22-2005, 04:57 PM

Dodd ELP and NAD 2700's bridged mono---slight hum

Dodd MLP and B&K 7270 hum so soft have to put ear to speaker

The hum you are hearing has to do with impedance matching. As said sometimes an IC can help. Of course wires dont matter! ;)

Not even thinking about changing.

RT1

polkatese

10-22-2005, 05:09 PM

I tried 3 different sets of IC:
- Transparent MusicLink plus
- MIT Shotgun 3
- Signal Cable Analog 2 plus

MIT shotgun gives the loudest. Transparent and SCA are about the same, so I left it with Transparent. Rolled a different set of tubes, same result. So, it could be system synergy issue.

ND13

10-22-2005, 06:33 PM

Believe it or not, the quietest ICs I've used between the ELP and the ASLs is the .5m Outlaws and the 1m Rat Shack Fusions. The loudest were the Copperheads.

I would have thought that the MITs would be your quietest, go figure :rolleyes: :confused:

Dennis Gardner

10-22-2005, 06:33 PM

ASL Mini Phono Preamp -Electro Harmonix(Russian) 12AX7or EI (Yugos) ECC82
Herbie's Halo 9 damping rings

Audio Experience MkII- Line Preamp with Sylvania 5y3GT (coke bottle shaped rectifier)
JJ Tesla 12AX7 driver(1) and outputs(2) or Sovteks
Herbie's Halo 9s damping rings

Saving for a Modwright SWL 9.0 SE preamp

Odyssey Stratos - SS amp 150WPC

I won't be going back to the HK Citation 23 SS Pre that I used prior. I love the Odyssey as William and I have already discussed ad nauseam since it gives me the power I need but opened mids and highs that tube amps are known for. 105db sustained from my SDA1Cs without a lick of strain, short passages of course.

madmax

10-22-2005, 07:08 PM

They still make SS amps??? :D

madmax

BobMcG

10-22-2005, 11:35 PM

Using the DODD MLP with a pair of (SS) Hafler 9505s bridged with AQ Diamond ICs. Nice combination. No hum problem. Enjoying a new level of realism, even more detail, and improved sound stage over DLC pre. Still using two SS preamps and like them but the main 2ch rig will more than likely stay with a tubed pre from now on.
Looking forward this winter to swapping in the (SS) Counterpoint Solid 2 amp in place of the 9505s for a while and swapping out the modified 2.3s for the Carver Amazings for a while too.

ND13

10-22-2005, 11:38 PM

Bob,

I just got my MLP the other day. What tubes are you using?

BobMcG

10-23-2005, 12:01 AM

Bob,

I just got my MLP the other day. What tubes are you using?

The Sovtek 12AX7LPSs Gary sent it with.

ND13

10-23-2005, 12:04 AM

I got mine from Hoosier so I'd have to guess that's what's still in mine. I haven't cracked the case yet to see.

audiobliss

10-23-2005, 12:11 AM

Aww, you mean you can't see the tubes in the MLP? phooey...

ND13

10-23-2005, 12:14 AM

No but the MLP is like the ELP to the fourth power

organ

10-23-2005, 02:04 AM

I've tried an Antique Sound Lab AQ2004DT and a Golden Tube Audio SEP-1 with my NAD C270. Tried both on my Klipsch and Polk LSi. I WON'T be going back to SS pre's.

Going tubes all the way is the best if your speakers are very efficient. This is my favorite set up. IMO, going tube pre/ss amp will only give you half the tube sound. But with some speakers, tube/ss is the only way to go. This is what I use when I want to listen to the LSi9. But when I listen to Klipsch, it's tubes all the way.

Noel,
Don't forget the Tung Sol reissue 12AX7 when you're ready to roll. I spent a few days comparing this to the Sovtek LPS and the Tung Sol is superior. I thought the LPS was the best current production before hearing TS.

Maurice

organ

10-23-2005, 02:06 AM

Aww, you mean you can't see the tubes in the MLP? phooey...

I can't see the tube in my GTA also but it doesn't bother me at all. You don't have to see the glow to hear the magic from tubes :cool: .

Maurice

ohskigod

10-23-2005, 07:46 PM

No but the MLP is like the ELP to the fourth power

yeah yeah, rub it in why dontcha :D

I run the ELP and a carver 4.0t amp. no way in hell I'm going back to solid state on the pre. any upgrade will be on a tube pre (maybe when Noel sells his)

just bought a house and car, so that will be FAR down the road.

ND13

10-23-2005, 08:35 PM

It will have to be something very, very special for me to consider selling the MLP. I did really like that modded Cary that Mark had, that is now out in Cali at Beardog's. I just couldn't come up with the $1800 that Mark needed for it. I'd have to think that the MLP and the Cary are on the same plane, but maybe the mods in the Cary took it past it, I don't know. The Cary did have alot more belld and whistles. It does look as though that I'll be replacing the Parasound that I just got with one of the McAlister P150 tube amps from Canada. SComp and Normanality already haave theirs and are in audio nirvana. Madmax has his on order and I think that FredV is either getting the pre or amp, maybe both. SComp amd Norm have their pre on the way. I'll get my deposit in as soon as I get a couple of loose ends tied up.

Oh and Lou, the ELP isn't going anywhere either, it's still a world class entry pre, imho. I may not be very experienced with alot of different brands, but I'd have a hard time believing that there are any other sub $500 tube pres out there that can outperform it, and probably not too many under $1k.

ohskigod

10-23-2005, 09:28 PM

I may not be very experienced with alot of different brands, but I'd have a hard time believing that there are any other sub $500 tube pres out there that can outperform it, and probably not too many under $1k.

I'll definitly be happy with the ELP for quite a while. It wasnt as warm as the Radii I had, but definitly more open and detailed, I know I would have to spend some serious cheddar to upgrade it.

Actually, nothing is really screaming for an upgrade in he 2 channel or theater, so I consider myself very fortunate in that regard.

RuSsMaN

10-23-2005, 10:23 PM

55LS70

10-24-2005, 02:44 AM

Several years ago I replaced my old Rotel preamp (a RC 870 I think) with a N.E.W. P-3 tube preamp. The amp I was using at the time was a Carver M-1. The improvement was nothing short of outstanding. Not only did I get more musical mids and highs, I got a soundstage. Even though the Rotel was a respectable, smooth sounding and accurate pre it had an annoying two dimensional and veiled quality about it A little tube rolling (I currently have a RCA 12BH7A grey plate and two RCA 12AU7A cleartops installed) netted further improvement. The N. E.W. P-3/Carver M-1 combo was a very good one and I probably should have stayed with that but I then moved on to tube power amps and currently have a Dynaco ST70 Series ll. Changing to the tube amp wasn't nearly the improvement the pre was. While the amp did enchanced mids, highs and soundstage I lost quite a bit of slam. Maybe sometime down the road I'll go with a pair of hard hitting mono blocks to regain the bass but I have to finish my 55 Chevy before I can pull the trigger.

From now on I'll probably never have a system without at least a couple of tubes in the signal chain. In my opinion, without tubes too much of the music is lost in the circuitry. Now maybe some of the uber solid state preamps (Krell, Mark Levinson and etc.) might be able to capture the sound I'm thinking of but their prices put them far out of my reach. Just my .02 cents.

organ

10-24-2005, 03:40 AM

55LS70,
Since you're using 12AU7's, you might want to try these while they're still cheap, http://www.thetubestore.com/jan12au75814.html Very neutral and realistic sounding tube. I like them as much as a pair of Mullards I once had. The Mullard had more warmth. I like them a lot and will order spares. I don't know why they're not well known but these are excellent NOS.

I've owned the original ST70 for about 2 1/2 years and love it. Since you feel that you need more slam, you could try the 6CA7 (direct replacement for EL34). Electro Harmonix makes them for $25/pr. What speakers are you using? Getting more efficient speakers will give you your slam back. But if you want to keep your current speakers, the 70's output might not be enough. So like you said, you might have to go with the hard hitting amps.

55LS70

10-24-2005, 01:00 PM

audiobliss

10-24-2005, 03:29 PM

I have to finish my 55 Chevy before I can pull the trigger.

Mmm. The '55. Definitely the prettiest of the Tri-5 Chevy's. Is it a Belair? Hardtop? With or without a post? Two door? What are you doing to it? Street rod? Restoring? What kind of engine? Maybe you should start a thread on it...(seriously...I'd love to know more about it...maybe some pics!!).

I would also recommend Klipsch. Obviously, I like the sound. Have you heard some Klipsch?

55LS70

10-24-2005, 04:31 PM

It's a 210 Delray (optional black and white vinyl interior), two door sedan (post), with a modified 283+.060", M-20 muncie four speed and 3.73 geared 12 bolt rear end. Right now we're installing NOS front fenders, new floors, floor braces, rocker panels, quarter panels and metal in the trunk area. We'll eventually paint it a dark blue and install a reproduction Delray interior. I'm 48 years old now and I first got it when I was 16 years old. This is my first car. When I get it somewhat back together, probabaly sometime next spring, I'll post some pics. I'm thinking about putting a tube based stereo (perhaps a pair of Milberts) in it. Those amps would look pretty good next to the nitrous bottle. Don't you think? When I get to that point I'll start a thread in the car section about car based tube equipment. That reminds me, I think a I have a Link Wray CD someplace.

Back to this thread, yes, I have heard some Klipsch speakers over the years. A friend has a pair of corner horns while several other friends have Heresys. None of these people are using tube equipment though. As far as newer Klipsch speakers go, I'm afraid I haven't heard too many of those. Like I said before, I'm going to have to do a little research before I can make a good decision on speakers. I would like to stay with EL34 tubes. Those are my favorites. Someone suggested to me a pair of VAC Auricle MK ll's. That would probably cure my ills, and take care of my bank account too. Again the above 55 would have to be completed first before I purchased anything like that. Thanks for your interest. It's been my experience that when someone goes to tube equipment they very seldom go back to solid state. There are exceptions of course. I know I probably won't go back.

audiobliss

10-24-2005, 05:21 PM

Sounds real nice! Excuse my ignorance, but at the moment my minds blank - what would the displacement be on a 283 bored .060 over? That's a nice story about it being your first car and you having it since you were 16. It's great that you were able to hold on to it all those years instead of having to sell it and then start all over again. Just out of curiousity, did you drive it most of those years or did it go into storage some?

To be perfectly honest about the tube amps next to the nitrous bottle....I wouldn't have a nitrous bottle anywere near my '55 Chevy (and no I don't have one.....but I might one day!! :D). From that period everything was based on displacement. I probably wouldn't even want to go with forced induction. Certainly not nitrous. Just doesn't fit with the theme, in my opinion. However, it's your car, lol. You'll definitely have to start a thread about it when it gets closer to being done!

A tube-based stereo in it would be awesome, no doubt!

madmax

10-24-2005, 06:53 PM

Word of caution re: McAllister amps, the EL50x tubes are VERY hard to find (decent NOS Sylvania). Buy that amp, you're pretty much stuck with Chinese grunt. The price is nice, and tubes with hats are hella cool - but I won't be buying one anytime soon.

You're better off spending more, and getting a couple push pull 6550 / KT88 / EL34 mono amps, or stereo amps that you can bridge. You'll end up with more tube options, better iron, and more likely than not, better sound.

I'm willing to be one of the guinnea pigs on this one. Might as well take advantage of that before putting up your money. :)

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. From what I understand changing the particular type of tubes in this type of circuit cause little difference. I can't say if the sound is adequate or not because obviously I have not heard them yet. I believe they will show up with the cheaper tubes in place. I will compare to the standard group of audio tubes we all use and let you guys know what I think, for whatever thats worth.

madmax

W WALDECKER

10-24-2005, 08:04 PM

I'm willing to be one of the guinnea pigs on this one. Might as well take advantage of that before putting up your money. :)

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. From what I understand changing the particular type of tubes in this type of circuit cause little difference. I can't say if the sound is adequate or not because obviously I have not heard them yet. I believe they will show up with the cheaper tubes in place. I will compare to the standard group of audio tubes we all use and let you guys know what I think, for whatever thats worth.

madmaxHey madmax,this guy is building these amps one at a time and is obviously not a novice to circuit design or tube selection, some of the best sounding audio gear comes from small mom and pop outfits like his. he is obviously a great tweeker and i have a good feeling about his products. tube rolling may be a thing of the past as far as his gear is concerned. thanks....WCW III

Normanality

10-24-2005, 08:30 PM

Hey madmax,this guy is building these amps one at a time and is obviously not a novice to circuit design or tube selection, some of the best sounding audio gear comes from small mom and pop outfits like his. he is obviously a great tweeker and i have a good feeling about his products. tube rolling may be a thing of the past as far as his gear is concerned. thanks....WCW III

I guess the proof is in the pudding (or listening) as it were.

Compared to my old McIntosh MC240 in combo with EPI / Vandersteen/ Klipsch / Energy speakers, this McAlister amp surpasses in every way. Sure, it's not all glitzy like a Dodd or some of the off shore imports but I turn my lights out when I'm listening, and it's the sound that matters.
I'm still astounded how much deeper and tighter the bass is over Rich's Rotel 1090B and his SRS 2's. Someone please explain how a measly 75wpc tuber can outgun that mighty high-output SS amp? Guess it breaks the old wive's tale that tubers can't produce outstanding bass.

Once I remove the Carver preamp from the mix, I'm sure it'll be better yet.

RuSsMaN

10-24-2005, 08:33 PM

Tube rolling is never a thing of the past, when it's audio related. EAR and MELOS both made big 509/519 amps, the only problem - a shortage of DECENT tubes.

Looking forward to your thoughts Chuck.

W WALDECKER

10-24-2005, 08:34 PM

I guess the proof is in the pudding (or listening) as it were.

Compared to my old McIntosh MC240 in combo with EPI / Vandersteen/ Klipsch / Energy speakers, this McAlister amp surpasses in every way. Sure, it's not all glitzy like a Dodd or some of the off shore imports but I turn my lights out when I'm listening, and it's the sound that matters.
I'm still astounded how much deeper and tighter the bass is over Rich's Rotel 1090B and his SRS 2's. Someone please explain how a measly 75wpc tuber can outgun that mighty high-output SS amp? Guess it breaks the old wive's tale that tubers can't produce outstanding bass.

Once I remove the Carver preamp from the mix, I'm sure it'll be better yet.another satisfied customer!

SCompRacer

10-25-2005, 07:33 AM

Word of caution re: McAllister amps, the EL50x tubes are VERY hard to find (decent NOS Sylvania). Buy that amp, you're pretty much stuck with Chinese grunt. The price is nice, and tubes with hats are hella cool - but I won't be buying one anytime soon.

You're better off spending more, and getting a couple push pull 6550 / KT88 / EL34 mono amps, or stereo amps that you can bridge. You'll end up with more tube options, better iron, and more likely than not, better sound.

I wouldn't have bought an amp that you couldn't get tubes for. While it may be true that Sylvania NOS tubes are hard to find, there are several horizontal output tubes that will work in place of it. 6KG6, 6KN6, 6LM6, 27KG6, and 6LB6 just to name a few. Other tubes that could work would require a filament voltage change.

As far as being stuck with Chinese grunt, I don't see where they have ever made a horizontal output tube. The EL519 Golden Dragon listed was made in Yugoslavia.

The reason he uses horizontal output tubes is not for the cool factor; sweep tubes have much lower distortion and handle 5 times the currect and 10 times the voltage of audio tubes. Imagine a guy saying circuit design should dictate sound, not a tube change.

There may be better sounding tube amps, but don't discount this one until you have heard it. Since I have no credibility, you'll just have to wait to see what Chuck says. Until then, I say bury the contempt and Chuck, let me know how it works out.

madmax

10-25-2005, 09:57 AM

Since I have no credibility, you'll just have to wait to see what Chuck says. Until then, I say bury the contempt and Chuck, let me know how it works out.

That is certainly not true. If you had no credibility I would have passed right by. :)

Russman makes a good point that the standard tube set is more likely going to be easier to deal with. With the internet though, I doubt you would ever be tubeless. If finding tubes is any concern at all just think of this: I couldn't find mosfets of the same number for a Soundcraftsmen SS amp a few years ago. It would have taken some engineering talent to cross some over as no crossovers were given. The amp was about 10 years old. Same problem, just who would have thought?? It was a cheap amp anyway so not really worth the effort.

madmax

ND13

10-25-2005, 10:48 AM

I'm ordering mine as soon as I have the cash to spare for the deposit. You have plenty of credibility with me Rich. I don't thionk Russ was discounting you and your credibility. He was just bringing up a point that some may not understand about the difference in design philosophy between Peter's and the status quo of tube amps. I don't believe there are very many people out there with experience with McAlister amps, so the cautiousness is warranted in some ways. With that said, I know how picky you can be about your gear Rich, so if you say it's kicking your Rotel's ass, I tend to believe you.

Maybe if there was some chrome or bling on these amps, people would give them a second look. I don't think that it's worse looking than an old Dynaco ST-70, but it's a proven design that has been around in one form or another for what...40-50 years now??

RuSsMaN

10-25-2005, 10:57 AM

I guess it read wrong. I'm not discounting anything, actually I'm amazed he can offer what he does, at the price point. The iron alone, especially the output trannies (if they are of any quality), have got to run him $100 / $150 a piece.

I'm familar with sweep tubes, I've been listening to a pair of EAR 519's on Gallo Ref 3's for the past year and half, every other Saturday at Uncle Charlies.

As far as bling / glitz, I think the amps look great. At the end of the day, who cares what they look like anyway - I never said anything about looks, did I?

Credibility? Huh? You've got as much as any other asshole here, including me.

ND13

10-25-2005, 11:29 AM

I think he does it more out of his passion for audio, just as Gary Dodd did. Before Dodd Audio went "public", he was offering the consumer "OUTSTANDING" products that were WAY underpriced for what they were/are. He still does to this day as far as the ELP is concerned. Really though, even with the price increase of the MLP recently, it's still a hard unit to top within it's price point. I don't have any experience with the Reference pre or any Dodd's amps, but I trust RuSs' views on those. Some day I would like to get some of Gary's monos or one of his stereo amps, but for now and the near future, the McAlister will be the only amp on my short list of must haves. Unless of course something ridiculously low-priced comes along, like some Mac, Cary, BAT, CJ or the like comes along for under $1k, that can compete with the McAlister.

Cary Stereo v-12.....that would be nice. Do you think anyone will sell me one of those for $900 :rolleyes: . I can dream, can't I????

organ

10-26-2005, 04:11 PM

Organ,

Thanks for the tip on the 5814A's and 6CA7's I'll give them both a try. For speakers I'm using a pair Polk Audio LS70's with an efficiency of 90db. The volume is good with this combination, but like I mentioned before it's a little light on the bass. I tried bi-amping, with a Carver TFM-15CB, but came up with dismal results. A speaker change might solve my problem. Klipsch have been recommended to me on several occasions. I'm sure there are other speakers, I just have to find the time to do research.

Sometime I'll have to round up an original ST-70. Myself and some of my friends are curioius as how the two well compare.

Hi 55LS70. Your speakers are efficient. Are your driver tubes old? If they're weak, they'll send a weak signal to the power tubes.

Also, try the 4 Ohms output taps. Going from 8 to 4 doubled the bass in my speakers.

I hope the 6CA7 works out for you. It's the American version of the EL34. Sounds similar to the EH EL34 with more slam/dynamics and better extension.

Klipsch will mate very nicely with your amp but they're not for everybody. The ones you've heard are from the Heratige line. I own the RF-35 from the Reference line and love them. The horns may be a bit too much with SS gear but completely transforms into a different beast with tubes. If you like the "live" sound, you'll love them.

Let me know how the tubes work out for you.

You'll find this interesting.... It's a write up on the original ST-70 vs. Series II http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/dynaco1e.html

Maurice

00p225

10-27-2005, 08:02 AM

I used a homebrew tube pre using 12au7's into a 200wpc soundcraftsmen PM-840 mosfet amp with very good results. Soundstage, note decay, and timbre, especially with piano was greatly improved over a solid state pre. The solid state preamps I've tried with the soundcraftsmen was an NAD 1130, which was not bad, but has some grain, and less detail than my tube pre. The phono stage was not bad however. I also tried the preamps from the HK 730 and 930 twin powered receivers. The 730's pre was actually more musical than the nad pre. Way too much background noise though, as this old receiver as most needs updating of the caps etc. The third pre I tried was my Mcintosh C-28. Maybe 80% of the detail of my tube pre, but again way to much background hiss and noise. Time to update this one as well. No way I would go back to a solid state preamp though. I'm now using my tube pre into my updated 35wpc eico hf-87 el34 amp. There's no going back to solid state for me! My setup now has more dynamics at low volumes than any of my solid state equipment ever had. Bass is awesome, and when a bass note stops, it stops dead. No flab here! Midrange vocals are simply awesome, and highs are smooth detailed, yet without siblance. Nice...........

Gaara

10-27-2005, 09:44 PM

Currently using a Modwright SWL 9.0SE tubed preamp with a Earthquake Cinenova Grande 5 SS amp. Great combo, tubed preamps are the best thing that ever happened to my system.

Dennis, the modwright is quite the piece of equipment, its build quality is phenomenal and Dan is great to work with. I am one very happy customer.

Jared