LSi9 vs LSi7

[organ]

OK, I noticed quite a few of you think the LSi7 is better than the 9's.

I love my LSi9 but I do have some beef with them sometimes. They can sound boomy at times, upper mids can be too warm and they sometimes sound sloppy.

I have my combination of gear and tubes that fix 90% of this problem but I will probably go SS when I'm ready to set them up in their own room. Now, does the LSi7 suffer from the problems I listed above? I know a few LSi9 owners here have the same issues. If the LSi7 are that good, I'll have to pick up a pair if I see them cheap.

Maurice

[Zero]

The LSi-7 is free of the over-abundance of mid-low bass ‘boom’ that I have consistently run into with the LSi-9 and LSi-15. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the 7 suffers from the opposite problem; the thing has virtually no useable output below 60Hz. There is your explanation why you hear so few complaints about ‘boom’ from this speaker.

As to be expected from a small bookshelf speaker, it lacks the presence and weight of a fuller ranger’ and is less efficient. Many will require a sub to fill in the lower octaves to put some more heft into the presentation.

At the very end of the day, they all suffer from the same exact thing. The speaker is just over-built, damn near bullet-proof. It is over dampened and the driver being used is so thick that its slow (hence the warm mid-range bloom).

[aaharvel]

The LSi-7 is free of the over-abundance of mid-low bass ‘boom’ that I have consistently run into with the LSi-9 and LSi-15. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the 7 suffers from the opposite problem; the thing has virtually no useable output below 60Hz. There is your explanation why you hear so few complaints about ‘boom’ from this speaker.

those were my thoughts when i was doing an a/b comparo between the two. And considering BOTH need subwoofers anyway, well...

[scottnbnj]

you need bass traps.

)

[Airplay355]

I haven't had a problem with the mids on my Lsi7's. I really need a sub though, they really don't have any bass. As for being inefficient, yea I'd say thats true. I think with some bass management I could crank mine alittle louder because I wouldn't be afraid of the small driver trying to produce bass. I noticed that when I really crank it, I don't notice how loud it is, until I turn it down and my ears are ringing. I think that because my amp can handle a 4ohm load and can handle being turned up loud, I don't hear distortion so the loudness isn't as apparent. Distortion seemed to be a standard of how loud loud was. Without a sub they don't sound full at all. But with the right placement (far apart and toed in) and with a sub, they definitely kick ass, especially for the price range they are in. I've been looking at speakers I'd rather have for what I paid for the Lsi7's and I can't find anything that would sound better.

[knownalien_]

surrounds are all I am missing in my 5.1 setup. What would you guys suggest in terms of the 7 or 9?

[steveinaz]

I would experiment with placement on the Lsi9, and/or more rigid stands.

[Sami]

surrounds are all I am missing in my 5.1 setup. What would you guys suggest in terms of the 7 or 9?
For surrounds, the 7's for sure. Unless you listen to 5.1 music tracks. If you do then 15's all around... :)

[jmierzur]

I had both the 7's and 9's in house at one point. The 9's were my L+R speakers, the 7's were utilized for rear use. Out of curiosity one day, I replaced the 9's with the 7’s. While the tonal characteristics were very similar, I did notice that the 7's soundstage was not as deep or as wide. This was unexpected and at the time, I was not about to experiment by moving the speaker stands as I had spent many hours optimizing the location for the 9's.

In addition, I have not tried running the 7’s full range so I will not comment on their performance in this regard.

you need bass traps.)
Bass traps did not remove the above noted problems when I had 9's in my system. Crossing over @80Hz to a good sub cleared most of the problems in the mid range and provided substantially better bass. This is how I used them for two channel and HT listening.




JM

[McLoki]

Bass traps did not remove the above noted problems when I had 9's in my system. Crossing over @80Hz to a good sub cleared most of the problems in the mid range and provided substantially better bass. This is how I used them for two channel and HT listening.

JM
Is this also how you had the 7's set up? (crossover at 80hz). Since I use my speakers for almost exclusively home theater, (therefore soundstage is not as big an issue) would you rate the 7's and 9's interchangeable for HT use? (both crossed over to a good sub at about 80hz)?

I have wondered if it would benefit me to upgrade my fronts to 9's (or even 15's) but given the way things sound now - it is hard to justify the upgrade. (the 7's are incredible for my uses...)

Michael

[Sami]

I have wondered if it would benefit me to upgrade my fronts to 9's (or even 15's) but given the way things sound now - it is hard to justify the upgrade. (the 7's are incredible for my uses...)
That's exactly what I have been wondering. I have varied my crossover setting from 80 to 60, and I still need to run more tests to see which I actually like better. For HT only I would just go with the 7's but I also listen to 2.1 music a lot and that's where the 9's would make a difference (if they would make a difference).

[jmierzur]

McLoki,

I use the 7’s exclusively for rear speakers and they are crossed over @80Hz in the SSP. The SSP is an older model with a fixed crossover point.

I looked at your system in the Showcase. Look’s great. I am not sure upgrading to the 9’s would be of any benefit in your situation. If extra funds were available, I would allocate them to something else within the system or for other non audio uses (as if there are any).

[Sami]

I use the 7’s exclusively for rear speakers and they are crossed over @80Hz in the SSP. The SSP is an older model with a fixed crossover point.

I think he wanted to know (well, I do anyway) if you had them xover at 80Hz when you tested them as your mains?

I did notice that the 7's soundstage was not as deep or as wide.

This, was it at 80Hz xover? Thanks!

[Airplay355]

I think soundstage is a big result of placement. Where I have my 7's now the soundstage sounds like shit. When i move them about 10 feet apart and toe them in things sound much much better and fuller. If you think your 7's sound too closed in, move them farther apart...it might help. It did in my case.

[jmierzur]

Yes, the mains were crossed over @80.

[LuSh]

I noticed a huge improvement in sound from my speakers after reading about WASP...it basically means Wilson Audio Setup Procedure. I was curious because Wilson Audio speakers are notorious for sounding bright and I find the LSi9's quite layed back with great side to side imaging but not enough depth.

Basically what Wilson calls for during their setup's is for a person to get close to the wall and slowly walk backwards until they can actually hear their voice become clear and vivid. It actually works, at first you can hear your voice "bounce" off the wall untill it finally becomes open. When you hit that spot mark it with some tape. Next try the same thing but only with the side wall. Walk from the side wall out into the room untill you hear your voice open and not reflect off the side wall. Again mark with some tape. If your embarrassed, try doing this when nobody is home and use a very loud voice, if you don't you'll be 12inchs from the back wall, and that aint any good. It is at this point you should have a good cross-section of where you should place your speakers. The front baffle should be placed there, with your speaker toeing in on the listening position.

The inner most part of the speaker should be lined directly with your ear, the outter most part of the speaker should be just outside your ear.

My speakers kinda look like this ( The X represents the speakers)

__________
|
|
| X
|

When I tried this, the sound was much more 3-Dimensional, and not as boomy. The toe-in allot for increased dynamics and a more forward sound. Try it, worse thing that can happen is you don't like it. Best thing, it could be the cheapest tweak you've ever tried.

[audiobliss]

Good post. Thanks for the info.

[scottnbnj]

Bass traps did not remove the above noted problems when I had 9's in my system. Crossing over @80Hz to a good sub cleared most of the problems in the mid range and provided substantially better bass. This is how I used them for two channel and HT listening.

i'm not sure if you're talking about soundstage or problems others mentioned, so i'll answer either way.

if it's soundstage, i've only heard subtle changes with traps there. more on the order of tightening or solidifying image and depth that's already present. at that level it's just taming lf resonances that might interfere with or blur frequencies further up the spectrum. wall-type treatments are better suited to expand depth and image.

if it's low frequencies that travel 360 degrees (can't remember where that is), and traps didn't help, try different locations, locations in addition to and/or thicker/denser materials.

if the problem is mids, whether it's tonal balance, clarity or image, try wall-type treatments. if you already have some treatments, try thicker/denser, or add more treatments, like to the back wall, floor, ceiling or where the left speak hits the right wall or treatments between the speaks to prevent reflections from the rack, monitor or opposing speaks (when aiming speaks at the listening position, this might become as important as sidewall treatments would be for no-toe with close sidewalls).

you're selling these speaks short if you're hearing these things and haven't really worked treatments.

)

[goingganzo]

i have my fronts set to large + with also sends the bass to the sub and the mains.

[organ]

Sean,
Thanks for the reply. I think I'll stick to my 9's now. Even though they have their down sides, I enjoy that 'weight' they produce.

Scott,
I highly doubt it's my room. They get more than 2ft away from the back wall and the nearest side walls are at about 8ft away. I've played around with different positions and came to the conclusion that it's the speaker's characteristics. Even at very low volume where room interference would be minimal, the sound I described is still present.

Airplay,
The LSi speakers are an EXCELLENT value. I agree about spreading them far apart. Mine threw a huge and deep soundstage with that kind of set up.

Steve,
I haven't really invested in great stands yet. I'm gonna wait until I can get them in their own room and buy some kick ass stands that I can fill with sand.

JM,
I don't plan to use a sub for the LSi rig so I can't cross them. My guess is that the problem reside in the high 100's HZ to the speaker's LF limit. I can see how crossing them at 80Hz can take out some of the problem.

Lush,
Thanks for the tip. I'll keep that in mind when setting up a system. I'm going to do some DIY room treatments next.

Maurice

[audiobliss]

Organ - Why aren't you going to use a sub your LSi9 rig? Will they really reach low enough for music by themselves?

[beardog03]

I was going to do an A/B with the 7`s and 9`s, but you guy`s pretty much covered it..

Thanks..!!

[audiobliss]

...but we didn't say a thing about how you would hear them!

[beardog03]

damn..!

I guess laziness is out today..!!

:o :D ;)

[organ]

Beardog,
Go out and get your demo on you lazy ass;).

Bliss,
The reason I'm not using a sub is because it's going to be a small rig for very soft soothing music like Sarah Brightman, Summer, Hayley Westenra, etc. I focus on the mids while listening to these types of music.

The LSi9 have a tremendous amount of bass. Anybody hearing the LSi9 for the first time will seriously think there's a sub hidden somewhere. But they only hit hard to about 50 hz. It's not the kind of bass we get from our RF-35. The LSi's bass is very different which sounds great with acoustic stuff and adds a lot of warmth to the upper mids.

Maurice

[jmierzur]

I love my LSi9 but I do have some beef with them sometimes. They can sound boomy at times, upper mids can be too warm and they sometimes sound sloppy.

Hi Scottnbnj,

My response:

"Bass traps did not remove the above noted problems when I had 9's in my system. Crossing over @80Hz to a good sub cleared most of the problems in the mid range and provided substantially better bass. This is how I used them for two channel and HT listening."

was directed to the towards Organ's above quoted comments. This is what I observed when I had them in my system.


you're selling these speaks short if you're hearing these things and haven't really worked treatments..

So you get an idea what I have tried, attached are a few shots of the front/left/rear side of the room with my new speakers that replaced the 9's. The traps need a fabric cover which I will make this winter.

JM

[Lsi9]

with the low ohm rating on the 9's I think you might need more wattage
to fix that boom...I highly doubt the 7's can sound better than the 9s in any optimal set up