Help with identifying Pioneer garage sale finds

[Ron-P]

Found these this morning at a neighbors garage sale. Got the lot for $25, and it all works and is in good shape.

Any help with what I have here and how / what I can use to clean them up.

[polkatese]

cool find, Ron! here is a site for you: http://www.classicaudio.com/value/pio/index.html

[audiobliss]

Nice find. Maybe I should start frequenting garage sells.

[shack]

Everything you want to know should be here....

http://silverpioneer.netfirms.com/

[amulford]

Way cool. Vintage Pioneer was fairly nice for that time period. Makes for a nice rig...

[Dennis Gardner]

The components alone are with the effort. Cleaned up they could make a great vintage garage, den, or patio setup. I use vintage Marantz for my throwback setup.

Now cut the ends off some brown extension cords for speaker wire, since that was all we had back then, and enjoy. :cool:

[Ron-P]

Thanks for those links guys, very helpful.

Dennis, this will become the new garage rig. I plan to rebuilt the speakers.

The face plates are a bit dirty. Any recommendations on what I can use to clean and polish them up? Also, any place where I can purchase new bulbs?

[Dennis Gardner]

I like dish soap solution to avoid taking any of the silkscreen lettering off. Just enough to break down oils and dirt without using alcohol that can harm some old paint. This works most of the time, unless the fronts have seen garage duty like on old integrated I'm working on that has flourescent paint overspray on it.

[steveinaz]

Thats some great vintage Pioneer stuff Ron. That cassette deck (CTF-500) was the first cassette deck I ever owned.

As Dennis suggested, use dishwashing soap diluted in warm water with a cotton towel of some type. Then wipe dry with a chamois. On the covers you could either prime/repaint them, or just clean them up if the aren't scarred.

[heiney9]

Thats some great vintage Pioneer stuff Ron. That cassette deck (CTF-500) was the first cassette deck I ever owned.

As Dennis suggested, use dishwashing soap diluted in warm water with a cotton towel of some type. Then wipe dry with a chamois. On the covers you could either prime/repaint them, or just clean them up if the aren't scarred.

My very first cassette deck as well. Vintage Pioneer sure brings back the memories :) .

H9

[speakergeek]

Very nice find there! ;) I have a pioneer CT-W650R cassette deck that still is in mint condition. It is about twenty years old or so. It is close to being vintage.

[speakergeek]

Found this site too: http://oaktree.cippsites.com/Stereo_Cassette_Tape_Decks.htm

They have some killer vintage stuff.

[WJE]

Here's another good site with a forum section dedicated to vintage solid state gear:

AudioKarma.Org (http://audiokarma.org/)

There's still quite a great following on vintage Pioneer gear and Sansui gear. Looks like you found some great things at that garage sale. I guess I should be hitting garage sales for my audio stuff. :)

[F1nut]

Ron,

I've had great success using Windex, never a problem with the lettering.

Here's a little Bluebook info on your finds,
PIONEER
CASS, CT-F 500
Description:
Manufacture Years: 1978 - 1980
Additional Information:
Retail
MSRP: $195.00
USED: $13.00

PIONEER
INT, SA-6700
Description:
Manufacture Years: 1980 - 1982
Additional Information:
Power: 40
Retail
MSRP: $320.00
USED: $49.00

PIONEER
TUNER, TX-6700
Description:
Manufacture Years: 1978 - 1980
Additional Information:
Retail
MSRP: $180.00
USED: $47.00

Nothing on the speakers.

[speakergeek]

Check out the internals of this booger. Pioneer used to really make em' for power huh. Reminds me of the inside of the latest Denon flagship receiver. This one's the SX-1280. Wow, look at those caps and transformer.


http://ckopfell.com/SX12802.jpg

http://ckopfell.com/PionBro12807.jpg

[steveinaz]

Hell yeah, receivers today are pussified. What was 35 watts in the 70's is like 150 watts today. My vintage SX-780 was 45 watts, and weighed about 4 times as much as a current "105 watt" Yammie I have in the garage....105 watts, yeah right.

HT=Demise of affordable, good audio

[audiobliss]

HT=Demise of affordable, good audio

Indeed. I think that should be in a sig.

[shack]

HT=Demise of affordable, good audio

Indeed. I think that should be in a sig.
Except it just isn't true, IMO. Affordable, good (2 channel) audio is still alive and well. from the likes of NAD, Cambridge Audio, Rotel, POLK, B&W, etc... (and yes even some of the mainsteam Japanese mfgs.) not to mention many of the "internet only" sources. I know what I paid for my Pioneer/Advent rig in the 70s and I know I can get as good if not better audio for the same amount of inflation adjusted dollars, if for no other reason than the improvements in technology and mfg. techniques. Is it as common palce as HT? No...because the public has moved to HT, digital portable audio and so forth...but it is still available. Turntables, CDPs, Amps, Pre-amps, speakers that provide good sound are available at very reasonable NEW prices if you just look.

I believe there are a couple of so-called famous "quotes" that might apply here...

"The King is dead....Long live the King!"

"The rumors of my death are greatly exagerated"

[steveinaz]

Shackster, you make some good points...let me modify:

HT=Demise of affordable, good receivers

[shack]

Shackster, you make some good points...let me modify:

HT=Demise of affordable, good receivers
You may be right about that....but this is certainly a step BACK in the good stereo receiver direction....we will just have to see how it goes....

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33655

Denon and HK make "decent" stereo receivers.

Rotel still makes a nice one...

http://www.rotel.com/products/specs/rx1052.htm

NAD has just come out with a new one...

http://www.nadelectronics.com/hifi_receivers/C720BEE_framset.htm

And I understand where you are coming from....There is not the proliferation of "good to great receivers" as in the past but for the most part...what is available is pretty good.

[audiobliss]

Now I'll hafta change my sig, lol.

[George Grand]

While the electronics are okay for a second, or garage system, I expect those speakers to sound like a bag of male cats. Your ears deserve better.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

[speakergeek]

I expect those speakers to sound like a bag of male cats. Your ears deserve better.

Now that paints an interesting picture! :p

[shack]

George has never been fond of "vintage" Pioneer speakers....

[heiney9]

George has never been fond of "vintage" Pioneer speakers....

Here's a definiton of Vintage

Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic

Something Pioneer speakers never were and never will be :p

H9

[George Grand]

Pioneer, Sansui, JVC, Kenwood, Akai, Teac. Those guys couldn't make a decent pair of speakers if somebody was holding their kids hostage over it. I have always been amazed at how some of these manufacturers could stick a 12 or 15" woofer into a fairly well constructed box (acoustic suspension OR infinite baffle) and have a damn -3db point that is in the mid 50's. Boggles the mind. Were they SHOOTING for mediocre performance?

If the speakers have lattice grilles, it's a dead giveaway too. They suck. I've heard truly vintage stuff from AR, KLH, and Advent with 6" woofers that dig deeper than those Kabuki squawkboxes with 15"ers, and are much more pleasant in the mid and upper areas as well. Doesn't take golden ears to hear that shit either. Stephanie would use that shit for firewood at the drop of a hat rather than listen to them.

Leave me alone about this, I don't want to get even more pissed off than I am just THINKING about some of the arguments and stuff I've had with lovers of these brands. HEY, if you're reading this (yes YOU) THEY SUCK!!!!

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

[ND13]

Nice to have you back George ;) :)

[speakergeek]

I've heard truly vintage stuff from AR, KLH, and Advent with 6" woofers that dig deeper than those Kabuki squawkboxes with 15"ers, and are much more pleasant in the mid and upper areas as well. Doesn't take golden ears to hear that shit either.

I agree 100%. I've heard the 15" Pioneers before, and I know my RT7s (7" woofers) dig deeper. All show and no go with those really big paper woofs.

[B3Nut]

Those aren't Pioneer speakers...they're most likely Quadraflex, judging from the CBS parentage. Bet $$ that setup came from Pacific Stereo. Those drivers look interesting, a dome tweet and what look like rubber-surrounded woofs and passives...might be an at least listenable speaker after a good cleanup and maybe x-over recap. For what he's got in 'em, they'd be a worthwhile project to tinker with. That's part of the fun of this old stuff. I'd love to see a nudie of that amplifier, always wondered what that series of Pioneer integrateds looked like under the hood.

Clean those pieces up, check the amp for DC at the speaker terminals, and let 'er rip...go from there.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[B3Nut]

Pioneer didn't really have much to offer speakerwise until about 1976 or 77 when they hired ex-JBL engineer Bart Locanthi. The HPM series was the result of his efforts, a series of what amounted to JBL clones (except the HPM-200, a somewhat rare and strange beast, said to be a rather sweet speaker, but I've never heard them.) The HPM-100 is considered the archetype of the line, being a variation on the theme of the L-100 Century. Thick cabinet, cast-frame drivers, and strange mylar-film supertweets. I have the HPM-100's, great rock speaker (and they do reach pretty deep, no kabuki squawk here) but they are an unashamedly west-coast speaker. Acoustic and vocal music shows their weaknesses in stock form, but I'll reserve ultimate judgment until I yank the crossovers and take the old bipolar 'lytics out and pop in some Solens.

They don't hold a candle to my Peerless-based DIY's WRT openness, coherence, and soundstaging, though. :) Still, a fun speaker (and one I used to drool on as a kid in the old shops, so I get to relive those memories heheeh) Still, west-coast speakers are pretty much restricted to rock'n'roll in my basement tinkering lab. :)

Fun stuff, fer sure. :D

TP

[Danny Tse]

Shackster, you make some good points...let me modify:

HT=Demise of affordable, good receivers

Yamaha just introduced a brand-new line of stereo receivers.

[speakergeek]

I agree 100%. I've heard the 15" Pioneers before, and I know my RT7s (7" woofers) dig deeper. All show and no go with those really big paper woofs.

Here's a pair on ebay: I imagine such a driver array would be an imaging nightmare. Those big woofers do look kinda cool though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/pioneer-cs-g401w-nice-subwoofer-speakers-vintage_W0QQitemZ5825586367QQcategoryZ71570QQrdZ1Q QcmdZViewItem

[George Grand]

Not taking anything away from Todd, who is a good man both on this forum and on the other forum, or from Bart Locanthi who helped JBL sell a lot of speakers, but if I was going to spend a lot of money on speaker design and then prefix the line with HPM (High Performance Monitors), a speaker that only sounded good on rock was not what I would shoot for. I have never cared for JBL or the "West Coast" sound precisely because of that sizzle and brightness in the upper mids and high end. They always make acoustic instruments sound electrified. Give me that AR, Advent and KLH "New England" sound all day long. I feel they really don't have a "sound" as it were. I think they got the rep for being laid back in the mids and highs because back then people didn't have access to enough power to drive them properly. AR-3a or AR-5 getting driven by 45-60 watts is not going to do it. Hit them with a 150-200 watts and you're going to have a speaker that sounds good on everything, from metal to chamber music.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

[ND13]

Give me that AR, Advent and KLH "New England" sound all day long. I feel they really don't have a "sound" as it were. I think they got the rep for being laid back in the mids and highs because back then people didn't have access to enough power to drive them properly. AR-3a or AR-5 getting driven by 45-60 watts is not going to do it. Hit them with a 150-200 watts and you're going to have a speaker that sounds good on everything, from metal to chamber music.
George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

Hit that proverbial nail square on the head with that one for sure. When I hooked up my Smallers the other day to the Parasound, it was just excellent.

[B3Nut]

I definitely prefer a "neutral" speaker for sure. However, the HPM's are a lot of fun. The sizzle is tamable, I back the tweeter levels off a bit usually. They do, however, fall apart on Bruce Cockburn's "Breakfast in New Orleans, Dinner In Timbuktu" CD where they make Bruce sound like he has a bad cold on the spoken-word parts. On the DIY's in the main system he sounds live, much more coherent and no crossover gremlins. Ditto my 7B's.

JBL's best speakers were their high-end studio monitors...hearing a good master tape through big soffit-mounted JBL's is quite a trip. :) My mom is a jingle/voiceover vocalist and jazz singer, so I grew up going to studios. I don't get to play in the big rooms nowdays...my own studio work is limited to home and project rooms. Small nearfields rule the roost in those environs...

Todd in Beerbratistan

[George Grand]

For awhile in the early 90's, you could purchase 4312's in the BX. Price was about $6-700 a pair if I recall correctly.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)