ELP Tube Preamp suggestions (Dodd vs. Dared)

[malikarshad]

All the reading of the Tube Preamps on the forum has got me all jacked up & I think I'm ready to talk a plunge on the Tube Preamp maybe in coming few months.
My requirements are
-> HT By Pass switch so that I turn the preamp off when watching movies
-> Remote control.
-> In $500 range.
-> It should do justice to Cary Audio Tube Amp

I have Dodd ELP and Dared SL-2000A in the price range. Dared has a remote but no HTBypass and Dodd has an HTByPass and no remote.
I don't mind going to a used market but I don't have any knowledge about what make or brand i should look for.

In terms of SQ how does Dodd and Dared compare.

Any other suggestions.

[ND13]

All I know is that the Dared is going to have it's hands full trying to outdo the ELP. I have never heard the Dared, but have read decent reviews on it.

[malikarshad]

I know few people own the Dared and would like their inputs as to why they bought Dared over Dodd.
I'm open to used market but as I said earlier I don't have any idea what to look for.

Still waiting for the Senior & Wise CP members to respond.

[Ricardo]

I bought the Dared over the Dodd for three reasons:

1.-Has a remote
2.-Looks better (IMO)
3.-Was available (Dodd had a three weeks waiting as I understood)

Reviews were good, so I pulled the trigger.

I love it, though I am not the best source for reviews......new to 2 channel, and first tubes I hear....

Hey Noel, we should really make that comparison....

[ND13]

I do own the ELP as well as the MLP. I'm sure that the Dared is a nice pre, but I have yet to hear one so I can't comment on it's virtues.
The build quality and the parts used in the Dodd are going to be hard to top in the sub $500 tubed pre market.

[malikarshad]

Sorry that I'm not "wise" enough. ;) No offense intended. Peace.
How does the tubes on Dared compare with ELP? I know you can alway roll out the tubes later. I've heard people that Dared does not have good tubes to begin with.
On the contrary Dared claims to have the shortest signal path.
Here is the snippet
Signal paths are shortest possible (I doubt if there is any other preamp with total length of signal path being shorter than this one).

Any other used market alternative.

[ND13]

I'm not sure what tubes ship with the Dared, but I'd have to guess some Chinese tubes of some type. The Dodd was shipped with 6922 Yugos

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dared-Audio-SL-2000A-tubes-pre-amp-220v_W0QQitemZ5827110646QQcategoryZ14974QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.doddaudio.biz/products/elp.asp

The Dared uses 12AT7s and the Dodd uses 6DJ8 variants, which include 6922s and 7308s. Both are plentiful, with the NOS being the best, but several of the newer production tubes sound really good and are less expensive.

[dragon1952]

Sorry that I'm not "wise" enough.

LOL! Senior but not wise. Come on Noel...what's up with that? :D

[ND13]

LOL! Senior but not wise. Come on Noel...what's up with that? :D

Never said I was a senior member, never will and don't care to be.

[ND13]

Hey Noel, we should really make that comparison....

You're welcome over anytime, just call and we'll make plans. :)

[danger boy]

I think the Dared uses three tubes. two small ones like X7's and one large rectifier tube. don't know if this makes any difference in SQ or not. I'm leaning towards the Dared too. only because of the remote.

[audiobliss]

How many inputs does the Dared have?

[danger boy]

How many inputs does the Dared have?


two inputs, two outputs

[audiobliss]

Hmm. That could suffice. I think this thing I'm feeling is called temptation.

[Ricardo]

You're welcome over anytime, just call and we'll make plans. :)

Hey, I'd love to come over to listen to your systems; I'd take the Dared and we can have some fun comparing Dared vs Dodd ELP..and then we can trade the review results for goodies from other members :) :)

I'll PM you.

[RuSsMaN]

Be prepared to buy a new preamp.

[Ricardo]

Be prepared to buy a new preamp.


Why....have you compared them?

[malikarshad]

Be prepared to buy a new preamp.
Russ your thoughts/suggestions would be much appreciated by many. I'm still :confused: torn apart between ELP and Dared.

[crossroadazn]

Ok, here is my experienced with Dared SL-2000A it isn't because of the elegant look :D but the Dared is a pure vacuume tube class A. Build with high-end quality parts like precision motorized Alps stepping attenuate, Auricap coupling capacitor, signal wires are pure silver :) two inputs and two outputs ( I use one for sub. ). 5Z4 ( or 5Y3 ) rectifier tube and two 12AT7s. Sound ? Warm tube sound not tube like ;) midbass articulation, high resolution, the midrange is so seductive with vocal to die for and smooth top end with air. Yes, roll with NOS tubes like Mullard GZ30 and 12AT7s in my system and you wouldnot disapoint, for the price..heh heh. Happy listening.
Cheers.
Cross.

[Frank Z]

No comment on the Dodd, I've never heard one.

I do have a Dared-Pre and have been continually floored by it's performance. I originally had it connected to an SS amp (Pioneer Elite M-10x) and used this combo for both my (actually deb's) SDA-2b's and a pair of LSi9's. Currently I have it connected to an ASL AQ1002DT and the sound is wonderful!! This combo is not overly warm and I did not notice any loss of detail when I switched between SS and tube amplifiers.

[malikarshad]

Does Dared output the signals if its turned off?
I need a signal by pass mode so that when I watch movie it passes signal unprocessed to the SS amp.
Your answer will really help me decide. Would appreciate it much.
BTW thanks for your inputs :)

[Frank Z]

No idea, mine is a for a dedicated 2 channel rig.

[jrlouie]

I'm far from senior or tube-"wise" ;)
But, I have the Dared (never heard the Dodd). This is my first experience with tubes. I've had it maybe a few months. I really like it. One key I've learned with pre-amps after buying this one is that direct IC's (no y-connectors) really makes a difference (at least it did for me).
I love having a remote. I do wish I had a theatre-pass feature, but I didn't even know pre's had such options when I bought it.
Music sounds more natural/real than ever. I find myself turning off the surround on DVD's and just using 2-channel with the tubes because it sounds more real.
It came with the stock Chinese tubes, I've upgraded once to some JJ's, and I'll probably grab some Mullard's around Christmas time. After breaking in, the JJ's to me have a little more detail than the stock tubes. I'm anxious to try out the Mullard's.
If nothing else, maybe my info helps a tiny bit.

Here are a couple of pics....
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10448
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10449

[malikarshad]

I asked the same question to the guy who sells it. He said there is simple mod that can be done to one of the outputs that will pass the signal without processing it thru preamp.
I'm unsure about whether he would do it or not?
How hard is to do this mod? Or I should not even try it. Personally I don't wanna do it but if its as simple as opening the hood and connecting wires then i can do it.

[malikarshad]

So finally its Dared ;)
I should have it soon and post my impressions.
Thanks for all your inputs/suggestion in my decision process.
Next in line is Tube CDP....It never ends..... :(

[audiobliss]

Glad to see you finally made up your mind! I can't wait to hear what you think about it, as I'm strongly considering one, too.

[RuSsMaN]

The Dodd doesn't require any mods to sound good, or do what it is supposed to. If you want an ELP, I suggest you step up and order. That is all I can say.

Dared? It's ok for what it is. Depending on what you can get it for used, it could be a STEAL. Don't see many Dodd ELP's up for sale (unless someone stepped up to an MLP), take that for what it's worth.

Not knocking any Dared owners, but that has got to be one of the ugliest peices of audio gear I have EVER seen. No one else has said it, so I will. What's with the 'roll cage', and the fake ass wood trim? Gag (imo).

Go hifi, or go midfi, it's entirely up to you.

AB, you deserve better, considering what I sold you last month.

Baby Arm.

[audiobliss]

The Dodd doesn't require any mods to sound good, or do what it is supposed to. If you want an ELP, I suggest you step up and order. That is all I can say.

Dared? It's ok for what it is. Depending on what you can get it for used, it could be a STEAL. Don't see many Dodd ELP's up for sale (unless someone stepped up to an MLP), take that for what it's worth.

Not knocking any Dared owners, but that has got to be one of the ugliest peices of audio gear I have EVER seen. No one else has said it, so I will. What's with the 'roll cage', and the fake ass wood trim? Gag (imo).

Go hifi, or go midfi, it's entirely up to you.

AB, you deserve better, considering what I sold you last month.

Baby Arm.

Points taken. I *think* I'd be happy with an AES more so than the ELP.

[ND13]

The audio gear made by the Chinese companies seem to be designed by their auto industry designers. First, the Dared designs and then the Gold-trimmed out AES(I'm assuming that the AES is Chinese too). Hell, the Dared even has a remote like the key fobs that cars use, keychain and all.

I'm not trying to bash either of those pres, because I know that its the sound that counts and I've not had the pleasure of hearing either of the two. Just making an observation on the design trends of the Chinese audio(auto :D) companies gear stylings. :)

[Ricardo]

You are all just jealous....The Dared is beautiful and sounds celestial...

Good Choice malikarshad....

:) :) :)

[reeltrouble1]

Well, not knocking Dared, but the Dodd is built right here in good ole Texas, by a small American businessman. When you want an answer to a question you call him up and talk to the guy who built the unit. If you ever have a need he takes care of it and at least for me its been gratis and I am just an average joe blow to him who likes his products. When I had a line short because of a bad interconnect he fixed my unit for free and I had not even bought it from him since I got it off the Gon. He always leaves me with a thank you for buying my product. Dont have time to call. Every e-mail I ever sent him was answered within 24 hours. It does not get much better than that. Unless of course we are talking about Ken Swauger.

RT1

[Frank Z]

The Dodd doesn't require any mods to sound good, or do what it is supposed to.
The Dared dosen't "require" any mods either. Not sure where you're going with this.
What's with the 'roll cage', and the fake ass wood trim?
A little added protection for the tubes for those that may need it. Fake Trim? No, real wood, not a veneer. Maybe not oak, cherry, or walnut...but real rood none the less.

Go hifi, or go midfi, it's entirely up to you.
Whats the dividing line?

RT1,
As far as being Made in America, thats fantastic. It's too bad that more people don't pay attention to that, but then again Polks aren't made here either.

The Dodd setup gets a lot of good reviews here, I wish I could listen to one locally and see what all the hype is about. Maybe someday...

The Dared pre is a great value for anyone wanting to experience tube gear without breating the bank. Just like any audio gear the beauty is in the eye and ear of the beholder.

[RuSsMaN]

Don't get too puffed up Frank, I just don't like your preamp, that ok?

Yeah HT, I'm jealous. I wish such a peice of fine hifi would pass through here so I could be blessed with the pleasure of using it, if only for a short time.

[Ricardo]

Yeah HT, I'm jealous. I wish such a peice of fine hifi would pass through here so I could be blessed with the pleasure of using it

see? I knew it :) :) :)

[Frank Z]

Not puffed up at all Russ, I'm still wearing my Happy Face smilie this morning.

[faster100]

:rolleyes: Guess if its not what ya like it's shit! I think the dared looks cool.. I liked the dodd also, different strokes.. doesnt make one better or worse.. I think i'll try a dared when i get back into tubes, like all my gear it may change or go who knows

[reeltrouble1]

Frank,

As far as the Polks although they are not assembled here, they are designed here, tested here, there are Americans working here for them and Americans oversee the quality control. Yes, some of the Asian companies employ Americans here but they are still Asian Companies whose profits ultimately end up in Asia.

I suspect the Dared sounds pretty good based on the reviews here, I know the Dodd does, for my outlined reasons I will stick with Dodd for an entry level pre, although I suspect a BAT or ART will one day be in my life.

RT1

[Frank Z]

RT1,
Yes I know.
Made in the good 'ol USA doesn't mean it's a 100% American made product anymore though. "Assembled in" might be a better way of phrasing it these days.

[ND13]

I hope nobody took my post wrong, because it wasn't meant as a bash, at all. I was not saying that the styling was bad either, just very "auto-ish" in it's nature. I try not to bash anything, much less something I've not even heard. The Dared and AES were pres I was considering , until Hoosier made me a deal on the MLP, that I could not refuse.

I'm still waiting to set up a time with you HTR for you to bring that Dared over so we can do an A/B comparison with the ELP. Give me a ring, Ricardo.

[Ricardo]

I hope nobody took my post wrong, because it wasn't meant as a bash, at all. I was not saying that the styling was bad either, just very "auto-ish" in it's nature. I try not to bash anything, much less something I've not even heard. The Dared and AES were pres I was considering , until Hoosier made me a deal on the MLP, that I could not refuse.

I'm still waiting to set up a time with you HTR for you to bring that Dared over so we can do an A/B comparison with the ELP. Give me a ring, Ricardo.


Noel,

Your post was not taken wrong :)

On the visit......if everything goes well, I will have to drive to Illinois soon (Eureka, IL, if you want to guess.... :D :D ); hopefuly I can make it work on a day you have free time, and stop by on my way back......will let you know when I confirm this.

[malikarshad]

Cool down boys :)
I was all up for Dodd initially and I was very close to ordering it.
But somehow my conversation with Mike(TweekGeek) & Gary was misunderstood by Mike.
I had emailed Gary about giving me the same deal that he gave to CP members in Apr 05 and Gary agreed to that and that email was CC'd to Mike. But somehow in the end Mike did not honor the same deal so I was pissed off. :mad:
There were too many email back and forth so I think something fall thru cracks. So I don't blame nobody :(
Moreover I did not want to wait for 3 to 4 weeks.
So the choice was made for Dared for following reason
1. It has a remote
2. Immediate availability.

There is no mod done to the Dared i ordered but the guy was nice enough to give me the option of putting the mod if I wanted.
The guy replied my every email and he also helped me figure out how to get the HT Bypass switch mod done on the Dared.
The mod was possible but in the end I wanted it un altered.

So here I go again... Any suggestion on the a CDP
BTW I sold my Denon 2900 b'cos of the tube itch...

HEY I also saved $25 on eBay by using the coupon code posted by DPOWELL in the Flea market. Thanks DPOWELL

[reeltrouble1]

OK, get a Dodd CDP! :)

RT1

Good Hunting though.

[malikarshad]

OK, get a Dodd CDP! :)

What a Dodd CDP? :)
R u serious? Post a linky if its not a joke

[sda2mike]

i like the dared....might just get me one after the holidays ;) i like the dodd, too...but no remote...has anyone got any info on the entry level pre amp from antique sound labs? same price point as the other 2. i'm also considering the tube buffer, i forget who makes it. x can10 or something. same price as the above pre's. however, they say for best sound to get an outboard pwr supply, for the same price. i've heard good things about the buffers on this forum

[ND13]

x can10 or something. same price as the above pre's. however, they say for best sound to get an outboard pwr supply, for the same price. i've heard good things about the buffers on this forum


Musical Fidelity

[sda2mike]

(ed mcmahon voice here) you are correct oh wise one! :D

[reeltrouble1]

What a Dodd CDP? :)
R u serious? Post a linky if its not a joke

Well yea it was a joke, but hey I bet he could build one, just not his bag.

RT1

[jfb4548]

Musical Fidelity

I think the X-Can V3 is a tube headphone amp, while the X-10v3 is the tube buffer and the X-PSU v3 is the outboard power supply to run them along with the X-DAC v3 which of course is the DAC. But never the less they are all Musical Fidelity creations :)

[sda2mike]

I think the X-Can V3 is a tube headphone amp, while the X-10v3 is the tube buffer and the X-PSU v3 is the outboard power supply to run them along with the X-DAC v3 which of course is the DAC. But never the less they are all Musical Fidelity creations :)

you sir, are correct as well!! ;)

anyone have this trio of musical fidelity products?

[W WALDECKER]

You are all just jealous....The Dared is beautiful and sounds celestial...

Good Choice malikarshad....

:) :) :)i think it is a sharp looking preamplifier also. i have never heard the Dared so i guess i will have to take someones word for it when they say it sounds celestial. thanks....WCW III

[malikarshad]

:) :) :) Just got the Dared over the weekend & boy it has been an awesome & tiring weekend.
The first time I opened the package I was surprised but it's size (opposite feeling of getting a SVS sub) ;) . Its a tiny little preamp :D But when I hooked it up it was a total different story.
I did some testing with my Cary Audio amp with LSi15 and I sounds so sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.
But in my excitment of hooking up the preamp i blew up my FR channel of outlaw 770 amp. :mad:
So I did not get a chance to test Tube pre + SS amp.

But its a keeper.
I also replaced the premap with Mullard's 12AT7. IMHO the chinese tubes did not sound as sweet as the mullards.

I'm so glad I bought the Dared over Dodd because I do not have the patience of waiting for months. No offense :)

More later...when I get my Outlaw amp fixed.

Thanks all for your opinions, suggestions and inputs.

:) :)

[RuSsMaN]

Glad it came together for you, and you're happy with it.

Cheers,
Russ

[Ricardo]

Congrats; agree on the Mullards vs. the Chinese. I also got a pair of Siemens; only heard for an hour or so, but I did not like what I heard...maybe it's just a matter of burning in, but the Mullards sounded great from the first second. The Siemens IMO had the lows so much accentuated that it made it tough to hear vocals in what I was hearing (Madeleine Peyroux).

Enjoy it!!!!

[read-alot]

Im gunna wait on Gary, maybe the Dodd will be here before my hearing leaves. Whats three more weeks when its been two thousand six hundred and ninety four without one.

[organ]

i like the dared....might just get me one after the holidays ;) i like the dodd, too...but no remote...has anyone got any info on the entry level pre amp from antique sound labs?

I have an ASL AQ2004DT which was ASL's entry level pre a few years ago. Uses a single 12AX7 and a pair of 12AU7. With the right tubes, it makes higher priced SS pre amps sound like poo. It retailed for $299 which is a steal for the kind of sound you get. Probably why you don't see used ones for sale that often. Not sure what the newer models are like but ASL makes excellent gear for the $.

Maurice

[reeltrouble1]

Im gunna wait on Gary, maybe the Dodd will be here before my hearing leaves. Whats three more weeks when its been two thousand six hundred and ninety four without one.

Wee be gettin a bit long in de tooth der Reads. Patience is a virtue. :)
Nice to have another in the over half century club, sometimes its a bit lonely here. :(

RT1=2666

[malikarshad]

Wee be gettin a bit long in de tooth der Reads. Patience is a virtue. :)
RT1=2666
Yes RT i also believe in patience ;) but in my case Mike TG screwed up. I had ELP at TG in the shopping cart for so many days while I was waiting for Mike and Gary to figure out my query but in the end it turn out against me. :mad:
But now TG is not even offering ELP as per my understanding from the other thread and I consider myself lucky to get the Dared.
I might have liked the ELP as much as like the Dared since this is my first tube preamp.

One question when I turn ON the preamp THERE IS GLOW OF LIGHT(FIRE) IN THE PREAMP TUBES (12AT7) FOR A SECOND. Is this normal?
Last night I A/Bed Mullard & chinese again and found out there is hiss and noise when I use the chinese tube. Does it mean the tubes are bad or its just the characteristic of the cheap tubes?

[Ricardo]

One question when I turn ON the preamp THERE IS GLOW OF LIGHT(FIRE) IN THE PREAMP TUBES (12AT7) FOR A SECOND. Is this normal?

I've also seen this happen, but only in some of the T7 tubes....weird. Chinese don't do it.

[reeltrouble1]

Malik-no prob hey I understand your decision, especially when waiting for your first pre to get that oh sweet tube sound. Errr no though you should not be seeing fire?? you mean you see a flame?? or just a glow?? The glow is fine, its the musical notes getting together :). No there is alot of heat in there, charged plates attracting and repelling electrons which creates the glow as they do their dance, but no fire.

Glad you are diggin it, I was just funnin a bit with Reads as we are both about the same age.

RT1

[crossroadazn]

Yes RT i also believe in patience ;) but in my case Mike TG screwed up. I had ELP at TG in the shopping cart for so many days while I was waiting for Mike and Gary to figure out my query but in the end it turn out against me. :mad:
But now TG is not even offering ELP as per my understanding from the other thread and I consider myself lucky to get the Dared.
I might have liked the ELP as much as like the Dared since this is my first tube preamp.

One question when I turn ON the preamp THERE IS GLOW OF LIGHT(FIRE) IN THE PREAMP TUBES (12AT7) FOR A SECOND. Is this normal?
Last night I A/Bed Mullard & chinese again and found out there is hiss and noise when I use the chinese tube. Does it mean the tubes are bad or its just the characteristic of the cheap tubes?
If you see fire likes thunder strike then reinstall the tubes make sure they are well fit in the sockets. Otherwise the rectifire tube ( 5Z4 or 12AT7 ) could be bad. Happy listening with tubes :) .
Cross.

[malikarshad]

If you see fire likes thunder strike then reinstall the tubes make sure they are well fit in the sockets. Otherwise the rectifire tube ( 5Z4 or 12AT7 ) could be bad. Happy listening with tubes :) .
Cross.
I rechecked it and its just a glow of light in the preamp tubes.
What's the function of Recitifier tube in preamp?
Does changing it to a better one will affect the SQ?

[RuSsMaN]

Some vintage tubes 'flash' on startup. I had never seen it until just the other day. Apparently, nothing to worry about.

[BlueMDPicker]

What's the function of Recitifier tube in preamp?
Does changing it to a better one will affect the SQ?

A rectifier utilized in the power supply of a preamp is solely to convert AC into DC - hence the name "rectifier."

The signal never actually passes through this part of the circuit, so one would think that a rectifier tube has no direct effect on the SQ…well, that's the theory. The truth however is a little bit different. The rectifier tube has a direct bearing on the power supplied for the other tubes and, due to its relative inefficiency (compared to a solid-state rectifier), it can and will “sag” when the demand for power is higher than it can handle. This is a relatively rare case scenario in audio gear unless overdriven.

However, in guitar amps, a lot of players (me included) like the sound and feel that results from this "sag." ;)

[fredv]

One question when I turn ON the preamp THERE IS GLOW OF LIGHT(FIRE) IN THE PREAMP TUBES (12AT7) FOR A SECOND. Is this normal?

Yup, my Mallard 12DW7 does the same thing - flash at power on, quite a scene :D

[ND13]

Yup, my Mallard 12DW7 does the same thing - flash at power on, quite a scene :D

Does it quack also??? ;)

HTRookie's Mullards have a flash at start up also. They are the only tubes I've ever seen that do that. Kinda cool to be honest :cool: .

[organ]

A rectifier utilized in the power supply of a preamp is solely to convert AC into DC - hence the name "rectifier."

The signal never actually passes through this part of the circuit, so one would think that a rectifier tube has no direct effect on the SQ…well, that's the theory. The truth however is a little bit different. The rectifier tube has a direct bearing on the power supplied for the other tubes and, due to its relative inefficiency (compared to a solid-state rectifier), it can and will “sag” when the demand for power is higher than it can handle. This is a relatively rare case scenario in audio gear unless overdriven.

However, in guitar amps, a lot of players (me included) like the sound and feel that results from this "sag." ;)

Hey Mike,
Have you compared the Sovtek and Mullard GZ34 in you guitar amp? If so, what was your result. I can live with Sovtek but the Mullard sounds so much better. Better bass, bloom, etc.